The Hungarian far right and David Irving

For those who don’t know who David Irving is, here’s a brief bio. Although he is often called a British historian, the fact is that he never finished college, and the couple of years he spent at two different universities had nothing to do with the study of history. However, he was fascinated with military history, especially German military history during World War II. Professional historians were not too taken with his work even when he stuck to military history, but they were especially critical when he began rewriting the political/social history of the war with a decidedly German slant. When he became a Holocaust denier that was too much for most countries: he was deported and barred from Germany, he was kicked out of Canada, and finally he was arrested in Austria and sentenced to three years in 2006. He spent a year in jail.


David Irving made several trips to Hungary where there are no laws against those who deny the Holocaust. Loránt Hegedüs, a Hungarian Reformed minister, was his host, and it was in Hegedüs’s church that he spread his ideas.


David Irving has not been in Hungary recently, but he’s once again in the Hungarian media. Irving is on a lecture tour in the United States. According to my information, an organization called Anti-Racist Action (ARA) managed to prevent Irving from giving a lecture in Washington, D.C. So he moved on to New York. Irving was obviously playing a cat and mouse game with ARA. He announced that he would speak at the Primavera Restaurant, 1578 First Avenue. That was a false address. But two people directed the arriving guests to the real site of the lecture, St. Stephen of Hungary Parish on 82nd Street.


The “small group of people” who asked one of the parish priests to allow the use of a meeting room in the church apparently didn’t tell him who the speaker would be. They simply said that “they wanted the space to discuss a book.” Well, in a way, that was true. According to the New York Sun (a neoconservative, pro-Israel daily) a journalist, Max Blumenthal, attended the event for a documentary he is making on Irving. According to him, Irving refused “to even use the term ‘Holocaust'” in his lecture. However, he did say a few things that would be illegal in certain countries.


St. Stephen of Hungary is a church shared by Hungarians and Italians. It seems that in the past extreme right-wing Hungarians used the church for events the priests found inappropriate. And they continue their bad behavior. The ARA (who, tipped off, showed up at the restaurant and were duly directed to the church) in no time organized a sizeable group of protestors in the currently heavily Jewish neighborhood outside the church.


Now comes the question of the link between New York and Budapest. New York Hungarians claim that an extreme right-wing Hungarian group headed by Ernő Hóka often uses the church for some of his gatherings and that Hóka has close relations with Ákos Szilágyi, the founder of the New York Polgári Kör, part of the network of civic circles of right-minded people who were supposed to rally when the call came from Viktor Orbán. These civic cells at one point seemed to be critically important vehicles of Orbán’s political strategy. Orbán put Csaba Hende, formerly an MDF member of parliament, in charge of the network of  cells. Hende by now is so far to the right that only a few days ago he shocked the country by suggesting that when Fidesz takes over the government they will fire all 45,000 policemen and build the force from scratch. Obviously, only those who share the values of Fidesz will be rehired. The establishment of the New York civic cell was inspired by Hende during one of his visits to New York. From the beginning the cell espoused extreme right-wing ideas and had close ties to kuruc.info.hu, a notorious neo-Nazi site advocating the overthrow of the Hungarian government. Recently the American server hosting both of these sites shut them down.


This morning Zoltán Szabó, an MSZP member of parliament, responding to the news from New York had a few choice words about Fidesz’s cozy relations with extreme right-wing groups. What Szabó wanted to know was how far Fidesz is willing to go. How long can a so-called “moderate” right of center party maintain close ties with the extreme right? Szabó said that he understands that hard-core right-wing voters are important to Fidesz since they make up between 8% and 10% of the electorate, but surely, he continued, a serious party can’t afford such nefarious association with neo-Nazis.


On György Bolgár’s call-in show this morning Zoltán Szabó reiterated his assessment of the situation. A split second after the conversation with Szabó ended, Ákos Szilágyi, straight from New York, phoned in. He denied that he had anything to do with the invitation. That, he alleged, is the figment of the imagination of László Bartus, editor-in-chief of the Amerikai-Magyar Népszava Szabadság, who, according to Szilágyi, is a liar whom he is suing because of another article he wrote. I checked Amerikai-Magyar Népszava and there was no mention of either Szilágyi or the New York Polgári Kör. It simply said that “according to many people, the St. Stephen Parish of New York has long been a meeting place of people with Nazi sympathies.” Szilágyi, by the way, also claimed that it wasn’t even Hungarians who invited Irving. That is hard to believe. I became especially suspicious when ARA supporters were described as homosexuals and communists. It sounded all too familiar.

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Stan
Guest

“did say a few things that would be illegal in certain countries”.
What does this mean? What did he say? Why is it illegal to speak? How is it possible that you can deny any part of history except for one? Who’s responsible for that?

Michael Santomauro
Guest
We should re-think the Holocaust. While the late Raul Hilberg of course holds to his basic extermination thesis, this explanation is radically different from the one he had previously given. It is obvious that revisionism is responsible for this change. Hilberg more or less conceded this, even if only indirectly. Specifically, he declared: “I will say that, in a certain way, Faurisson and others, without wanting to, did us a favor. They raised questions which had the effect of engaging historians in new research. They have obliged us to once again collect information, to re-examine documents and to go further into the comprehension of what has taken place.” Hilberg summarized his new thesis before an audience of nearly 2,700 at Avery Fischer Hall in New York City: the entire German policy for the physical destruction of the Jews was to be explained by mind reading! No document attesting to this criminal policy could be found, because no such document existed. For several years, the entire German bureaucratic machinery operated through a kind of telepathy. As Hilberg put it: “But what began in 1941 was a process of destruction not planned in advance, not organized centrally by any agency. There was… Read more »
[sic]
Guest

Michael Santomauro pedigree can be seen one his websites, the main one being:
http://reportersnotebook.com/

Odin's lost eye
Guest

If those who deny the Holocaust had met with folk like Cyril ‘S’, John ‘B’,Keith ‘K’ and ‘Old Shad’ would soon have their minds changed. These men were part of the 11th Armoured, which liberated Bergan-Belsen. They were part of the crew, of, I think, a Bren Carrier with tank with a flamethrower. It was used to burn the buildings etc in Bergan-Belsen because of the horrendous typhoid outbreak there. I knew them as a boy because we lived in the same village. Even in the 60’s they were never very nice to German Tourists in the nearby University City. I will say no more!

Eva S. Balogh
Guest

Sic: Michael Santomauro pedigree can be seen one his websites”
I also checked out Santomauro and found out what kinds of books he is promoting and selling. I would prefer if he didn’t advertise his ware, even indirectly, on this blog.

Balder
Guest
Actually Irving is of the most knowledgeable historians on the subject of WWII, and a hero of free speech.. One may not agree with his interpretations or political views, but his factual research has been approved by many credible historians and institutions. I got a whole list of quotes somewhere by such people who have daid these things. Irving has even contributed with accounts of atrocities against Jews hithertho not known or proven. He was held in high esteem for many years by many of his contemporaries, until representatives of the Jewish community and More and he Zionist allies who also have interests in keeping up the one sided version of victors’ history, started their slanderous campaign against him. Ok. Irving is provocative. But I like that spirit in people. The truth is slowly coming through despite all the efforts to hide it. ‘Holocaust denial’, what a stupid term, has crept into even the politically correct circles of anti-revisionist government sponsored institutions. Look here at the statements of the Danish holocaust archeologist Anders Otte Stensager, who recently published a biography of Josef Mengele: No evidence that six million Jews were killed “The real figure probably is ca. 4 million”, says… Read more »
Tom
Guest

I get the feeling that there is no real commitment to free speech in Hungary, or at least at Hungairan Spectrum.
Interesting.

Caratacus
Guest

Since when did geting a university degree qualify anyone to be a historian? Most Phd theses are not worth the paper they’re written on. Irving’s books should stand or fall by their research. What exactly is it that so frightens people about him? Why should anyone be imprisoned for any views no matter however outlandish on history? This question goes to the heart of the matter. The truth is that anyone who threatens what the courageous Norman Finkelstein (son of concentration camp survivors) aptly dubbed the ‘holocaust industry’ (and a multi billion dollar industry at that), is very dangerous. And, by the way, Odin’s lost Eye, no one now pretends that Berge-Belsen was a ‘death camp’. The ‘gas chamber’ was actually put up by the Americans after the war – why? Yes plenty of peple died of typhus (as did thousands of native Germans in Allied camps AFTER the war ended), but there are photographs of other liberated inmates looking amazingly healthy. How do you explain that? I only ask because I want to know – should I be jailed for asking?

[sic]
Guest

@Balder: “…their slanderous campaign…”
You mean libelous. In tort laws and even in educated speech, there is as much a difference between slander and libel as between borrow and lend.
p.s. this was just a vocabulary/conceptual correction, nothing else is implied or could/should be inferred.

Richard Mallett
Guest

It should also be noted that David Irving also wrote an excellent book on the 1956 Hungarian uprising, called ‘Uprising – One Nation’s Nightmare: Hungary 1956’ which was described by Ferenc Kunszabo, editor, Hunnia magazine. Budapest, as ‘the best work on the 1956 uprising in the English language’

Eva S. Balogh
Guest

Richard Mallett: “It should also be noted that David Irving also wrote an excellent book on the 1956 Hungarian uprising, called ‘Uprising – One Nation’s Nightmare: Hungary 1956’ which was described by Ferenc Kunszabo, editor, Hunnia magazine. Budapest, as ‘the best work on the 1956 uprising in the English language'”
The only problem with this book review that it appeared in a far-right magazine and that the book in question is useless. I who took part in that revolution can attest from personal experience that it was not a revolution against the Jews as Irving claims. It tells a lot about Kunszabo that he finds this the best book on the revolution. Trash it is.

Hon. Robert Lynch
Guest

Europe Awake! Can’t you see what is happening to your culture? You are being destroyed from within. WHO ran Hungary under Communism? If you even today you are lost.
Look who is destroying Serbia and Croatia. Christian nations have been and still are the targets.
AWAKE AMERICA! AWAKE EUROPE!
The enemy is inside the gates!

whodareswigs
Guest

David Irving has written aproximately 30 books, but not one of them is about the holocaust. He was jailed in Austria for a year because of comments he’d made at a lecture delivered to a group of conservative university students 16 years previously. To jail a man for a lecture that long ago means there is no statute of limitations on politically incorrect speech in Austria, anyway. Irving is persona non gratis in Australia, Canada, Austria, Germany and New Zealand. He’ll be arrested, detained, and deported if he tries to enter these countries. This is because he’s expressed skepticism about the received history of the holocaust, a subject he readily admits is not his metier. Where I live in America, a gang of black teenagers kicked a young white man to death in front of 160 witnesses and not one of these murderers was ever jailed. Yet, when David Irving visits this city he must sneak in and sneak out to avoid violent confrontations with bat wielding Jews and anti-fascists. There is something very sick about societies where savages saunter about enjoying more freedom than certain authors.

Stan
Guest

How did Jews manage to have such world-wide influence?
That’s scary.
Too much anti-defamation can drive people to anti-semitism.
It’s just natural self defense.

R.
Guest

. . . and the cockroaches come crawling out of the woodwork.

Eva S. Balogh
Guest

R: “and the cockroaches come crawling out of the woodwork.”
And how many! Hundreds and hundreds. Mostly from the same site.

[sic]
Guest

@stan: “How did Jews manage to have such world-wide influence? That’s scary.”
Assuming you are right [ridiculous, but this is a thought experiment], then in a democracy doesn’t that just mean that given equal opportunity [a big assumption given existing prejudices] you and your kind have shown yourselves to be inferior losers?
Really, you want to ‘balance’ out the perceived power relationships, go contribute something decent to society and the economy. Invent something, create something, generate wealth, good will etc…
You kind of poison is unproductive nonsense and the very reason you need to cling on to your own miserable kind for supportive sustenance. Loser.

forthurst
Guest
“Although he is often called a British historian, the fact is that he never finished college” That is a non sequitur. There no affiliated body of historians for which a qualification is necessary before one can be an accredited historian. Irving however has an excellent command of written and spoken German, unlike many of the ‘historians’ of the Nazi era, which he has put to very good use in his interviews of members of the Nazi regime and in reading original documents; these researches brought to light facts which had remained unknown by ‘historians’ whose endeavours consisted solely of passing off tomes full of hearsay without verification to an original source as ‘history’. Irving is what an historian should be – someone who writes nothing that cannot be traced to an original source; that is why he was not able to provide a chapter about how the Wannsee Conference was about murdering all Jews and that six million Jews were gassed at Auschwitz. He has never said there were no concentration camps or that Jews were not murdered. There is no verifiable source to support the major tenets of the Holocaust and laws and prosecutions do not substantiate it either… Read more »
Laszlo Bardos
Guest

Article 19 of the UN Human Rights Charter explicitly states:
“Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without
interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.”

Adrian
Guest
There is too much emphasis here on the plight of the Jews. The evil of the Third Reich is not to be measured by the fact that it killed innocent jews, or by how many, or by what means; but because it killed innocent human beings as a matter of policy. Adam Tooze, puts this in persepctive: ” The full extent of the SS’s genocidal ambition is staggering and for obvious reasons it has held the historical centre stage. However, what is less widely appreciated is that the Wehrmacht entered the Soviet Union intent up on not one, but two programmes of mass murder. Whereas the Final Solution and the Generalplan Ost were secrets closely guarded by the SS, for fear, amongst other things, of antagonizing the local population, the second programme, which openly envisioned the killing of tens of millions of people within the first twelve months of the German occupation, was agreed between the Wehrmacht, all the key civilian Ministries and the Nazi political leadership as early as the spring of 1941. Nor can the so-called ‘Hunger Plan’ be described as secret. It was referred to in official instructions issued to thousands of subordinates. And, perhaps most importantly,… Read more »
Stan
Guest

“and the cockroaches come crawling out of the woodwork”.
The kind of arrogance that makes Jews so popular.
Keep pushing your luck, but don’t complain when bad things happen to your people. You’re asking for it.

Eva S. Balogh
Guest

Stan: “The kind of arrogance that makes Jews so popular. Keep pushing your luck, but don’t complain when bad things happen to your people. You’re asking for it.”
I’m warning you, if you don’t stop that kind of talk you will not be able to post a comment on this blog

mannstein
Guest

@Adrian: My uncle fought in the German Wehrmacht on the Eastern Front for the entire duration of the war. Not once did he hear or was party to the plan that you speak of. Please provide references to back up your wild and unsubstantiated statements.
As for wiping out populations the perhaps you should take a look at the Kaufman Plan and the Morgenthau Plan which certain influential American Jews envisioned to for Germany after the War. Morgenthau a Jew was US Treasury Secretatary. The details of his plan were worked out by Harry Dexter White who just happened to have been a Soviet Agent. Morgenthau’s plan later became JCS1067 which directly caused the death of several million Germans during the occupation. I’ll be glad to provide references.
Since you brought up moral failure then let us not forget that Stalin’s willing executioners were primarily ethnic Jews. We have the names in our files and will be glad to publish them.

bayou
Guest

Quote:
“here’s a brief bio. Although he is often called a British historian, the fact is that he never finished college, and the couple of years he spent at two different universities had nothing to do with the study of history.”
ROTFL
That says it all about the author.
I guess, in author’s view, that makes Lipstadt a better SOURCE historian.

Adrian
Guest
Mannstein, The reference to the Hunger plan is cited in my post, the edition of Adam Tooze’s book I cited from is the Penguin edition, 2007. Without being prejudicial to your uncle, until you provide me with more details of his research into this question, I’m going to run with the Cambridge Historian. Tooze’s footnote for this passage is as follows 47 We owe our awareness of this remarkable fact first to R.-D. Mueller’s contribution to DRZW 4. 184-93, originally published in 1982, and more recently to work by Aly and Heim, Vordenker der Vernichtung, 365-93, C. Gerlach, Kalkulierte Morde: Die deutsche Wirtschafts- und Vernichtungspolitik in Weissrusslalld 1941 bis 1944 (Hamburg, 1999) and C. Gerlach, Krieg, Ernaehrung, Voelkermord: Deutsche Vernichtungspolitik im Zweiten Weltkrieg (Zurich, 2nd edn., 2001). I don’t read German, but would be curious to hear your comments on Tooze’s sources. Yes, I am familiar with the Morgenthau plan, my understanding is that Churchill and Stalin used it primarily as a negotiating tool against Stalin. It was never implemented as the need to maintain West Germany as a bulwark against Stalin was more important than returning Germany to the middle ages. Please provide a reference to something I could… Read more »
Eva S. Balogh
Guest

Forthurst: “‘Although he is often called a British historian, the fact is that he never finished college That is a non sequitur. There no affiliated body of historians for which a qualification is necessary before one can be an accredited historian.”
Oh, yes, some people think that no qualification, no training is necessary to analyze events of the past. Anyone can just sit down and write history. That’s a fallacy. It is a profession like any other. I don’t think that it is a coincidence that none of the revisionist “historians” had any formal schooling in the subject. Another history “expert” among the commenters mentions Lipstadt who, according to him, although has an advanced degree in history is surely less of a historian than his idol, Irving. Well, the British courts found it otherwise.

R.
Guest

@ Stan
You said to me:
***The kind of arrogance that makes Jews so popular.
Keep pushing your luck, but don’t complain when bad things happen to your people. You’re asking for it.***
My people? I’m not Jewish.
As far as pushing my luck goes, Stan, let me say that I think you’re a pathetic bigot. A small, sad man wrestling with big ideas.
To tell you the truth, comparing you to a cockroach is unfair to cockroaches.

Eva S. Balogh
Guest

R: “My people? I’m not Jewish.”
According to these guys everybody is Jewish who doesn’t agree with them or who is not an anti-Semite.

whodareswigs
Guest

Convicted robbers, rapist, crooked corporate executives, drug pushers, pornographers, pedophiles, arsonists, arms dealers, drunk drivers, corrupt politicians and even murders often get lighter sentences than holocaust “deniers.” There is not one human rights organization in the world that will defend their right to express dissenting opinions about the details of this lone historical event. Not one!
Ernst Zündel
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Whittle, Stephen
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Sheppard, Simon
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At large but currently under indictment:
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Stan
Guest

R says: ” I’m not Jewish”.
Well, if your just a dumb Goj, what are you doing here?

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