The latest blemish on the Hungarian judicial system

On August 27 came the news that the legal proceedings against the Hungarian Guard that were supposed to continue on Monday, September 1, will be postponed because the judge recused herself and her request to step down from the case was granted by her superior, the head of the Civil Division (Polgári Kollégium) at the Budapest Court. Let me give the exact legal definition of "recusation" as it appears in Black's Law Dictionary. "In the civil law, a species of exception or plea to the jurisdiction, to the effect that the particular judge is disqualified from hearing the case by reason of interest or prejudice." To translate this into less legalistic language, "to recuse" means to disqualify oneself as a judge in a particular case either to avoid a conflict of interest or because of prejudicial bias. The judge could have asked the head of the Civil Division to be disqualified at the outset if her son was a member of the Magyar Gárda. Or she could have refused the assignment if she had such strong sympathy or antipathy toward the Hungarian Guard that she could not have judged the case on its merits.

But this wasn't the case, although the Budapest Court used the word "recusation." No, the judge received a couple of nasty anonymous telephone calls and she became scared. As Albert Takács, former minister of justice, said this morning: when a person decides to be a judge he/she ought to realize that the job has its dangers. It goes with the territory. Can you imagine if every judge who handles a murder case would recuse himself on the grounds that he received threatening letters from the relatives or friends of the accused? Moreover imagine the following. I'm the defendant in a civil suit and I don't like the judge because it looks as if he is going to rule against me. So I ask my friends to make a few threatening telephone calls and, behold, the judge recuses himself. New judge, new chance. And if I don't like the look of that judge, I can repeat the game until I get a sympathetic judge.

As some legal experts who commented on this case said, this latest "shakes the Hungarian judicial system at its very foundations." One lawyer suggested that it was not the smartest thing for the Budapest Court to announce the real reasons for the judge's retirement from the case. She could have been quietly removed and another person appointed in her place. Well, perhaps the Budapest Court would have looked better if the truth didn't become public, but somehow I don't think that would have been the proper and decent way of handling the case. As is usual with Hungarian judges, the answer is that the head of the Civil Division "had to grant her request, the law doesn't not allow any other possibility." Occasionally one has the feeling that some of these judges can't even read the law because I simply can't believe that the law would say that "if you're scared you can just retire from the case."

The Hungarian Guard immediately denied that they had anything to do with the intimidation of the judge and expressed their outrage that there are some people who try to influence "the independent Hungarian court system." The only thing I could imagine at this point was that the Hungarian Guard is intimating that perhaps some "lawless" Gypsies made the threatening telephone calls.

The whole thing is outrageous. Mind you, it was already outrageous that an important and politically loaded case has been dragging on for months. If I recall correctly, the first court date was sometime in April. In between a few pretty horrendous things happened: the guardists waving red and white striped flags in the courtroom or some of the guardists blockading the doors and not allowing journalists and heads of one of the Gypsy organizations into the courtroom. The spokesman for the Budapest Court gave only feeble explanations for these rather unusual events. Perhaps indeed this judge was not really fit to handle this case, but leaving the scene like a scared rabbit and calling it recusation, well, that is too much. At least in my opinion.

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Sandor
Guest

Oops! Wrong!
This is not a new one, it is the same one: a bunch of Mickey Mouse-clones on the bench are masquerading as judges and some of them are even biased too.
I long have doubted the sanity of the whole system.
And this judge has proven herself completely unsuitable at the first trial day. When the guardsmen took over the court room she should have summoned the chief of police at once and order him to restore the decorum of the court room.
On the second date she also could have done the same and issue a temporary order, or injunction, suspending the existence of the Guard until the threatening calls are satisfactorily investigated and the perpetrator is nabbed.
She also could forced the defense to show cause why the guard should be allowed to remain in existence. She missed that. Since this is a civil case, the onus could have been reversed. That probably wouldn’t spare her the abuse, but at least would put the guard on the defensive. Instead, they are emboldened by every day of judicial fumbling they are delighted to see.
This is just an other egregious instance of how inept the judicial system is.

Pál Marosy
Guest

Yet another biased anti-Hungarian article.
It seems obvious to me that the author hates anything what is Hungarian including the flag with red stripes which is an official historical flag (declared so by law – if law does matter to you). If that is not enough for you, the red stripes are present in the coat of arms of Hungary (adopted by law). The flag of USA does have red stripes, do you hate them too?
The judge has been threatened by a so-called “antifascist”. This is how your chauvinistic propaganda works: accuse your enemies with the things you are doing. The so-called “antifascist” was supposedly unsatisfied with the speed of the trial.
“blockading the doors and not allowing journalists and heads of one of the Gypsy organizations into the courtroom”-yet another sickening lie. The fact is that the trial room has been full and that is why the head of the Gypsy organization could not enter.
Your article does not mention the political pressure on the judges, the repeated attacks against civil rights and freedom of speech.
If you don’t like the Hungarian Judicial system, you are free to do your aliya.

Eva S. Balogh
Guest

Marosy: “The flag of USA does have red stripes, do you hate them too?”
You know as well as I do that is a ridiculous comparison. Historical flag or not, the problem is that it was used by the Hungarian nazis. I know the arguments of the far right and unfortunately you belong in that camp.

Pál Marosy
Guest

Well, the flag is adopted by law. If you don’t like it, that is your problem.
Did the Japanese state change the flag after WWII, no? Do you hate that because of that?
The fact is that you are bunch of Hungarian haters.

Eva S. Balogh
Guest

Marosy (or Marosi): “The fact is that you are bunch of Hungarian haters.”
A whole bunch? Did I multiply? Instead of being an expert on Hungarian flags, work on your English.

Pál Marosy
Guest

When I wrote “bunch” I was referring to this site. Look at the categories:
Anti-semitism, Hungarism, Gypsies, just to mention a few.
“Work on your English”-this is your only argument? I think my English-without any English classes, learning English on my own- is comprehensible.

Eva S. Balogh
Guest

Marosi: “Look at the categories: Anti-semitism, Hungarism, Gypsies, just to mention a few.”
Unfortunetly these are the topics that are in the forefront of Hungarian politics. Do something about it then perhaps they wouldn’t need any discussion.

Pál Marosy
Guest

“Do something about it then perhaps they wouldn’t need any discussion.”
OMG, are you suggesting the final solution??
Shame on you! I will report this to the police. What else wouldn’t need any discussion?

Bela
Guest

Dear Pal Marosy,
I empathies with you and can sense the manipulation of the content on this topic “The latest blemish on the Hungarian judicial system”
There is no point in debating with these closed minded anti Hungarians, save your energy and support true Hungarian sites, you will quickly learn that this site is in favour of the Lefties and also supports everything not Hungarian..

Pál Marosy
Guest

Dear Bela,
Thank you for your comment.
I see this site a good opportunity to improve my English as some are not satisfied with it… 🙂
Lies can not be left unanswered.

Eva S. Balogh
Guest

Marosy: “Lies can not be left unanswered.”
Lies? So, according to you, there is no antisemitism, no prejudice and no discrimination against Gypsies? There is no Hungarian Guard that intimidates them? Isn’t it so that the Guard further arouses anti-Gypsy sentiments? These phenomena simply don’t exist? Just in some people’s imagination?

Bela
Guest
Dear Eva, Antisemitism was invented in the seventies by Holocaust thieves, justifying there so called state of Israel, Hungarian Guard only are against the crimes committed by the Gypsies mainly in regional areas where crime rate is high and the residents live in fear of the gypsies , also the police force are not able to control the crime or cannot enforce the law because of the legislation that protect the gypsies. It is easy to point the finger at the Guarda but look at the facts instead of the biased one sided left view. Have you ever considered the suffering the Hungarian have to go through in there own country and the minorities are given more rights then the indigenious Magyars, where is the justice here.. So instead of being so aggressive toward the Guarda whom up until now have only tried to help Hungarians to live a safer and fairer lifestyle in there own country. I know i cant influence your discision on your political views, you have certain limited views and are like a dog with a bone, not willing to look at the positive aspects of the Guarda, but thats your free will, but as Pal… Read more »
Eva S. Balogh
Guest

Bela: “not willing to look at the positive aspects of the Guarda,”
Private units in uniform are dangerous and unacceptable. Hungarians are not oppressed in their own country. And what you mean by holocaust thieves. The worst kind of neonazi talk. That’s the truth.

Bela
Guest

Private units, are National Guard, many countries have there own units, why not Hungary.. The Incal Security Service are private Israel based firm protecting Ference and his criminals, and we as tax payers are forced to pay for this crimanal behaviour. Why cant Hungarians br e recruited in there own country instead of an external security force especially one from Israel, it’s like rubbing salt into the wounds of Hungarians. And one other thing I am not a Nazi supporter, Nazi Hitler was supported by the Zionists to create there so called state of Israel.

Eva S. Balogh
Guest

Bela: “And one other thing I am not a Nazi supporter, Nazi Hitler was supported by the Zionists to create there so called state of Israel.”
You manage to utter so much nonsense that it is beyond imagination. I don’t have time for people like you. So, don’t bother to write.

Odin's lost eye
Guest
Firstly this case is a civil case. An accusation had been made and it has to be answered in an open Court of Law. Every one in EU (and that includes Hungary –whether the ‘Rancid Right’ like it or not-) has the right to face their accusers in open court. Every judge has the duty to uphold the dignity and integrity of the Court. Those in the public gallery have only the right to watch and listen. Only those taking part in the proceedings are privileged to speak and then only when called upon to do so. @Mr Sandor You say *** “This is not a new one, it is the same one: a bunch of Mickey Mouse-clones on the bench are masquerading as judges and some of them are even biased too. I long have doubted the sanity of the whole system.” *** I will agree with you here. In the UK you have to actively practice as a barrister before you can become a judge. I recently had to spend 1.5M HuFs to defend myself against a bankrupt building firm. The court should never have accepted the case because the papers in the case were, contrary to EU… Read more »
Eva S. Balogh
Guest

Odin: “In the UK you have to actively practice as a barrister before you can become a judge.”
That is the practice in the United States as well. I find it incredible that someone straight out of law school becomes a “judge.” Young, inexperienced lacking any courtroom practice.

Bela
Guest

Odin”Mr Bela have chosen to ignore the facts of the Holocaust, which are a matter of photographic record many taken by communists but confirmed by similar photographs taken by western troops (Tommy Atkins and G.I Joe) and incidentally by Arial photography.”
These photo’s supplied by the Stalin regime really have a lot of credibility “Not” especially the propaganda and Ideaology promoted by the Stalin Liers!!
Many of the pics were from hunger and Typhoid, which was a epidemic through Europe. Only years after the event was the Holocaust promoted, as we know the so called version today, any other political event may be discussed openly however why not the So called Holocaust, if it is true then why not be able to discuss it openly, instead of labelling anyone raising questions as a NeoNazi. Any other political event can be questioned but this one is Taboo to discuss, I wonder why??

T. Rex
Guest

??

Sandor
Guest

Dear Pal Marosy, would you be so kind to send me the exact law that codifies the legitimacy of the red-and white striped flag?
The motive’s presence in the Hungarian coat of arms is not really a proof of legitimacy as you refer to it, because there are other motives as well, such as the triple hill, or the double, or Lotharingian cross, but those are not used on the street as demonstrative devices. They are neglected, because the nyilas predecessors didn’t care for them.
So please quote the paragraph for me.
Thanks pal.
From Bela I only would ask, if you would accept, as proof of the Holocaust, pictures that were made by the Germans. Because, you see, there are some of those around, you just didn’t take the trouble to look at them. (Please do! Remember: Arbeit Macht Frei!)
And what do you mean by discussing it? What you are doing is denying, not discussing. For you it would be also useful if you joined the Flat Earth Society. You can deny all you want, the Earth shall remain round.

Sandor
Guest

Dear Ondine’s, I am afraid you are mistaken.
First you point out, correctly, that it is a civil case, but then you mention an accusation. These two are mutually exclusive. In a civil case there is no accusation at all, but two contrary interests are pitched against each other and the court’s job is to mitigate between them.
In the Guard’s case it is the interest of the yahoos against the interest of society.
The case pivots on the the nature of the Guard and the rules of registration. This would be a pretty simple case, since no monetary aspects are attached to it. However, political passions are at stake that makes it even more feverish, then money would be.
The basis of the suit is the doubt that this organization has no legitimate right to be registered and yet it is, therefore the plaintiff requests the striking of the Guard from the record, thus yanking the legal rug of existence from beneath their feet.
A matter of simple jurisdiction, you might say, but the “blemish” mentioned in the subject lies exactly in the fact that this simple matter takes so many unreasonable twists and turns.

Bela
Guest

Sandor I cant make you open you mind!! unfortunately i cant help you, you have to make the choice to see the evidence out there and raise questions to what is happening in politics and the world, I have looked at both sides and havent the energy to convince someone who has a closed perspective , even if I presented you with my version you would be in denial, we all have choices to believe what we want, but to label someone for questioning a historical event and seeing the event from a different angle, is a scared individual.. Which unfortunately is reasonable, just that your programmed way of thinking limits you from achieving a higher vision..

GDF
Guest

It must be Gustav, the bugs are out again…

Sandor
Guest

Bela, thanks for the help you offer, but I resign to muddle through without it and without the higher vision too.
I will just have to miss all that patronizing superiority of yours and your kind, and remain on the soggy field of lowly reason, of reality and stick in the mud of cause and effect.
The fact that the majority of humanity is satisfied with this should not disturb you at all, you just go on your merry way with your “vision,” or more likely with your phantasmagoria, and just make a fool of yourself every step of the way.
Bye-bye.

Bela
Guest

Sandor you reality is limited, you havent even the incling were to begin to understand what reality is..

Sandor
Guest

Yeah! That’s me Belam, from top to bottom, the slave of limited reality.
But isn’t it nice that all that shimmering “Beyond” is yours to have to spread your wings and soar all over.
Bela, it’s all over.

Odin's lost eye
Guest

Off topic
@Mr Bela
Have a look at a website called http://www.globalsecurity.org and type in Holocaust in the search request and see what you find. The RAF photo recognisance unit looking for a factory called IG Farben took the pictures. South Africans flew the mosquito aircraft of No 60 squadron SAAF. It just happens that Auschwitz and Birkenau were on the frame as well. It was not until much later 1978 that the Photographic Interpreters spotted the places. The PR photos taken at different times show and confirm the history of the place from 26th June 1944 until 14h January 1945. Remember these photos were ‘stereos’ taken with 1/3 overlap. That is how we can tell which way people are moving!
I do not recommend that you look at Yadvashem.org, it will not do your blood pressure any good, but others might like to.
@Mr GDF you say *** “It must be Gustav, the bugs are out again…” ***
I am puzzeled please explain (if it is not too rude)

Sandor
Guest

Ondin’s, when it comes to Bela and all his cohorts, nothing is too rude.
They are asses. (That is my assessment.)

Odin's lost eye
Guest

@Mr Sandor
Do you mean something like this ‘There is nothing wrong with Bela that reincarnation would not cure’?
Or that he is a “He is simply a shiver looking for a spine to run up.”
I think those are rude. I do not use ‘basic Anglo-Saxon’ well not often
By the way did you look at the websites? If so you might try http://www.scrapbookpages.com

Bela
Guest

@Odin’s lost eye
I’m not denying that the war camps were there, I am just questioning many of the events that took place, and there are anomalies concerning the events that took place, why cant someone question any Historical event? and for some reason when this one is questioned I am labelled as a fascist or Arse (Asees)..where is the freedom or justice to research? The pictures are depicting many corpses or ariel shots , the corpses may have been from Hunger and sickness, these may have labour camps not extermination camps, also the communists and Allies executed many people who were against there political ideaology, and it seems the winners write the history..

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