The Hungarian political police chiefs and their underlings, 1957-1990

I assume that Ricsi thinks that while the victims of the Hungarian political police were all Christians, the beneficiaries of the system were the Jews. I hate to disappoint him. Although Gábor Tabajdi and Krisztián Ungváry don't mention the leaders' religious affiliation or ethnic origin, the two historians managed to compile fairly detailed biographical notes on all the sixty-odd people who played important roles within the organization between 1957 and 1990. On the basis of these biographical notes I can safely state that the number of people with Jewish backgrounds was small.

For instance, the authors identified eighteen people in leading positions between 1957 and 1962. Out of these eighteen only three, perhaps four, have a Jewish background: Jenő Hazafi, Ervin Hollós, László Kunos, and possibly Károly Hidegkúti. All others were non-Jews. The social and educational backgrounds of three of the four in no way differed from the other fourteen. Hazafi had a sixth-grade education after which he learned a trade: engine fitting. Hollós worked for a furrier, again with very little formal education. Károly Hidegkúti finished only eight grades and worked in a textile factory. The only exception was László Kunos who finished high school in 1940. Because he lost his parents and his brother in the Holocaust it is not surprising that he became a devotee of the new regime. However, in 1962, most likely because his rigid adherence to the old style dictatorship was no longer acceptable, he was dropped and ended his career as an accountant in a smallish state enterprise.

Moving along, let's take a look at the chiefs of the National Security Division (Állambiztonsági Főcsoportfőnökség) designated by the Roman numeral III. There were seven of them over the years. Out of these seven six were definitely not Jewish and because the last chief was born in 1936 and the only thing the authors know about his early life is that his father was a printer working in the Ministry of Interior, we cannot be sure. In addition the authors list thirty people who served in different important capacities under these chiefs. Out of these thirty I could identify only one as Jewish.There are about five or six section chiefs whose biographies don't give any clues one way or the other.

So any generalization about a Jewish preponderance in running the Hungarian secret service is based on prejudice rather than on facts. The Kádár regime was careful to avoid an overrepresentation of Jews in the top echelon of the party organization (in contrast to Mátyás Rákosi's government). As far as the secret service was concerned, the main criterion seemed to be a working class or peasant origin. The regime trusted people whose upward mobility was due entirely to the communist party and whose early life was marked by poverty. To these people the new regime brought incredible rewards and they could only be grateful. The stark contrast between their earlier lives and their adulthood in leading positions in government service must have been a constant reminder of their good fortunes.

Wishing everybody a Happy New Year! Being an optimistic sort, I think that Hungary's economic woes will be less severe than most people predict.

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Ricsi
Guest

I am honoured,a reply in writing !
As for Hungary’s woe’s –things are going to get a lot worse in 2009,not just here,but everywhere and your beloved Gyurcsány will not be able to do anything about the coming crisis,except lie and spin as usual.
Happy new year
Shalom Éva

Ricsi
Guest

Is not Krisztian Ungváry jewish ??
Interesting that you do not reply directly to me,but through your forum. Still I wish YOU personally an happy new year,even though you can not find the strength to reciprocate.Not a problem for it shows yet again who is the stronger !! (you still do not remember me do you ?)
Ps I am not an optimist but a realist,Hungary is in big trouble and it will get far worse next year. SZEBB JÖVŐT ÉVA

Sandor
Guest

Don’t be an idiot Ricsi!
What does it matter if Ungvary is, or isn’t Jewish?
As it happens he is not. He is, despite his relatively young age, one of Hungary’s best historians ever.
But for real interesting tidbit let me mention that while the Jews were indeed overrepresented in the Rakosi era government, they were even more overrepresented amongst the victims of political repression. As a mattar of fact, on the list of those deceased in the Vac political prison the Jewish names are around 30%.
BTW, I don’t think you are that strong, in fact your brain is quite weak.

NWO
Guest
The one thing Ricsi is likely to be correct about is the state ofthe Hungarian and world economy in 2009. It is likely to be worse than last year and 07, both of which, in the case of Hungary, were fairly miserable. I also agree that this Government has very few levers available to change the course of the economy, and it is true that is due in large part to the errors of the prior Governments (which were mainly MSZP led). Of course, the the fact that the main opposition lacks any credibile, coherent plan for the economy and is so myopic and selfish to refuse to even engage in a serious discussion on the issue, only makes matters worse. Gyurcsany has shown himself to be (at the same time) too prone to hubris (so as to offend a significant proportion of the population) and also a prisinor of the internal politics of the MSZP. But at least, he seems to understand the larger issues surrounding Hungary. Orban is instead a prisinor to his own delusions of grandeur and of his horribly misguided belief that all politics is zero-sum, and that it is better to let the Country crash… Read more »
Eva Balogh
Guest

NWO: “Gyurcsany has shown himself to be (at the same time) too prone to hubris (so as to offend a significant proportion of the population)”
I more or less agree with the rest of your remarks and therefore there is no need to comment on them in detail. As far as Gurcsány’s popularity is concerned it depends on ideological commitment and it has very little to do with his personal traits. He is very popular among the MSZP voters and terribly unpopular on the other side. And vica versa. Orbán is hated on the left and adored in Fidesz circles. Those who espouse far-right ideas hate both.

Op
Guest

Orban-haters rarely pay attention to what he says. They read the oddly-named Nepszava and Nepszabadsag or worse, hardly the best source for unbiased reporting. Orban makes sense (not an easy sell in this dumbed down world), and neither the liberal left nor the religious right want any part of that.
Orban says that Gyurcsany and his goons are only interested in hanging onto power at any cost. Now let’s see if he’s right, read the last entry of 2008 in Gyurcsany’s own blog. After a trying year he still finds reason for celebration, his biggest success is that the left is still in power. That’s it. The ship is sinking, we’re heading in the wrong direction and a storm is coming, but I’m still the captain, so I’m happy.
We need a leader who doesn’t despise Hungarians, willing to patch up the ship and change direction before it’s too late. We are running out of time.

[sic]
Guest

NWO: Likewise I don’t feel the charge of hubris is justified. There is every evidence that Gyurcsány has and continues to try to communicate his beliefs and thoughts as clearly as possibly with his party and to people in general. If you understand Hungarian you should take a look at the detailed linguistic analysis of his blog over the last few years: http://tinyurl.com/5xmr9p
In brief this shows that he has greatly simplified his language, made his sentences shorter, his posts pithier etc…
What he has never strayed into is populist territory, so he doesn’t go for the showy, but economically meaningless things that Hungarians tend to love.
Lets also remember that he spoke for over 7 hours in parliament this year. Orbán managed a mere 5 minutes in one sitting after the referendum and nothing since. His economic minister has also only spoken for a collective total of 5 minutes. This is in the year of an international economic crisis.
More should have been done, we all agree, but I largely think that under the circumstances the PM has performed reasonably.

Odin's lost eye
Guest
I would like to wish everyone a happy and prosperous new year. It always amuses me to see how the pieces entitled “The Hungarian political police chiefs and their underlings, 1957-1990” develops into a brawl between the supporters of MZSP and FIDESZ. I would like to address my first remark to Mr. Ricsi. I’m always perplexed as to why people confuse a religion with a race of people. Judaism is a religion, it is most definitely not racial grouping. Most of the original Hebrew people were of the Semitic race (some were Greeks – a Caucasian people) and a modern day followers of the religion called Judaism belong mainly the Caucasian racial grouping (Nordic, Mediterranean and Aryan).. I rather fear that Mr. Ricsi’s problem with them stems from a book called the ‘Protocols of the Elders of Zion’ (it is also known as the protocols of the Wise Men of Zion). This book is based on a satirical comment on the actions of Napoleon III which was written by a by French satirist called Maurice Joly. Joly himself, it was later found, had plagiarised an earlier work of one Eugene Sue. I will confess I have never read either of… Read more »
Ricsi
Guest

I neither confuse religion with race any more than I confuse the REAL evil,zionists,with the ordinary Jew.If my rants are taken as an attack against ALL Jews,then I hereby apologise and make it clear that the zionist extremists (like all extremists) are the root cause of most problems in our world today.
You quote the “protocols” etc..and then say you have never read them ! Why quote them ?
I Sir,have read them and checked the alleged “fabrication” of the Protocols.
Religion had no place in the communist world,nor with Hitler,but both regimes realised it could be used as a tool to convince the masses to follow the regime,hence the catholic sell outs to both regimes..

Eva Balogh
Guest

Ricsi: “I neither confuse religion with race any more than I confuse the REAL evil,zionists,with the ordinary Jew.”
Would you tell us what you know about Zionism? Do you know what it means?

Ricsi
Guest

Éva,do YOU really want ME to give you an history lesson on Zionism and its implications ??
Of course I know,for why else would I bother to make a comment on your esteemed blog !
Let us not play silly question and answer games to detract from the main subject at hand.

Eva Balogh
Guest

Ricsi: “Éva,do YOU really want ME to give you an history lesson on Zionism and its implications ??” You can leave out the implications. I just want a simple definition so I would know whether we are talking about the same thing.

Ricsi
Guest

No we are not talking about the same thing,for I see the evil in their ways,whilst you I fear,through the act of asking such a question,actually support/believe in the zionist philosophy.

[sic]
Guest

Ricsi: You obviously haven’t got a clue what you are talking about and are scared of showing your ignorance even more clearly than you have already done.
You have been asked a simple question and you choose not to answer simply on the basis that this will force you into a factual discussion rather than one based simply on prejudice and personal beliefs – which is the only form of discussion of which you are capable.

NECUNOSCUT
Guest
Ms. Balogh I stumbled across your Blog about six weeks ago. I am a strong believer in the value of comparative study. It is an important tool in trying to establish a context and perspective when examining any matter.In this instance a study of the Hungarian experience during the Communist regime and of the subsequent ongoing period of transition. You have characterized Kadar’s Hungary as the “least awfull” of the Warsaw Pact communist regimes . I would concurr with that evaluation. I would add to it the proposition that Ceausescu’s Romania was the most awfull of the communist regimes in the Warsaw Pact, certainly during the 1980’s(due to the peculiarities of the GDR, it is a case unto itself, notwithstanding the many similarities which it had with what was the Soviet Bloc).That is why these two countries, current and past, are the primary focus of comparison for me. That is not in any way to diminish the overall issue of the great divide which was Europe between 1945 and 1989.Besides Hungary is a fascinating European phenomenon right from the time of the arrival of Arpad, unique really. Since I cannot speak or read Hungarian, I only know English, Romanian and… Read more »
NWO
Guest

OP-
You say Orban haters rarely pay attention to what he is saying. Tell me what Orban has said or even espouses in terms of “real” policy, and how such policies advance the long term interest of Hungary? The bizarre thing about FIDESZ is its intellectual corruption. It is in name right wing but in main supports left wing policies. It claims to be anti-socialist and communist, but is actively neo-socialst in its economic policies. It is meant to be “conservative”, but in the end is purely populist. FIDESZ has become no more than a reflexive anti-MSZP party. The problem is that at times the MSZP has been willing to adopt painful but necessary policies, that need cross party support. FIDESZ (Orban) given its has only one coherent strategy-to oppose whatever MSZP supports-would rather sink the country than change its political calculus. And this is to the detriment of the Country, and helps to explain why reform is so impossible in this place.

[sic]
Guest

NWO: This year and since the crisis in general Orbán has merely proposed internal spending as a solution. Really, that has all he has said, Hungary should spend its way out of the crisis. This alongside stopping all the major/minor construction projects to ‘save’ money. He proposes no meaningful cuts in the size of local/national government and administration overheads, no restrictions on unions or pensions (quite the opposite).
Meanwhile Gyurcsány has outlined his policies in quite a lot of detail, to the point where the complexity of some of his language has increased as he has tried to explain complex issue to an electorate that doesn’t really want to hear.
As you have said elsewhere and here before the left is not left, nor is the right right in Hungary. Economically, at least, it is the socialists with the only signs of understanding and responding to open market economics.
The would be coalition partners has not helped either through a mixture of incompetence, power hunger and unrealistic demands – these demands including more radical economic changes than the Hungarian people have shown a stomach for, particularly under the threat of further referenda.

[sic]
Guest

I’ve just come across some more detailed figures on who spoke, how many times, for how long http://gondola.hu/cikkek/62849 You don’t really need Hungarian to understand, this the tables are pretty clear. Just for the number crunchers amongst you.

Ricsi
Guest

Who cares how many times somebody spoke ? Stop confusing yourselves over such petty trivia,We are run by a self confessed liar and corrupt gang,with a pathetic opposition that plays the same games. Gyurcsány or Órbán,Brown or Campbell,McCain or Obama–NO CHANGE ,for REAL change is not on these guys agenda.
I choose to ignore the pathetic ,childish questions about my knowledge zionism,for it is merely a distraction from the real issue,silly games,rather than talk about the reality,so stop ducking and diving Éva/sic.
2009 will be VERY bad for Hungary especially,and many other “states” in the EU block-period.
SZEBB JÖVŐT !

[sic]
Guest

Ricsi: But your lot don’t even have a meaningful economic agenda, do they? The Bethlen Gábor program (Ricsi is the forum administrator on the Jobbik website) talks of nothing aside from some meaningless references to ‘ethics’. Or else, what is the social/economic agenda to which you are referring?

Eva Balogh
Guest

Dear Necunoscut, thank you so much for your encouraging, intelligent and kind remarks. You’ve made some very interesting points and if you give me a little time I would like to respond later more fully.
Here I want to thank you for calling my attention to the young Orbán’s speech at the funeral in 1989. I know that it was considered to be a brave speech, but I didn’t like his references to the suffering of his own generation. His parents’ generation or my parents’ generation suffered a great deal more.
By the way, among the readers of this blog there are people originally from Romania and I hope that one day they will also contribute.

Eva Balogh
Guest

Sic: “The Bethlen Gábor program (Ricsi is the forum administrator on the Jobbik website)”
Well, well, what a surprise! May I ask Ricsi to dispense with “Szebb jovot!” This arrow cross greeting is most inappropriate.

Ricsi
Guest

Jewish Éva, do not play stupid games,for you and “sic” are one and the same !
SZEBB JÖVŐT, SZEBB JÖVŐT
The new right is here,and it is here to stay . YOU STILL DO NOT REMEMBER ME ???
Think carefully dear lady ……

Ricsi
Guest

I am here to haunt you and your kind,traitors to Hungary,living in New York and yet idolising commie bastards like Gyurcsány,whose days are numbered.
Grow up Éva néni,your days are soon to be over …….
SZEBB JÖVŐT
(and this was never an arrow cross greeting ! though “kitortás” was and still is !)
REMEMBER ME ????????

[sic]
Guest

Ricsi: ‘for you and “sic” are one and the same !’
We are not. Which clearly means that you do not remember me.

Eva Balogh
Guest

Ricsi: “I am here to haunt you and your kind,traitors to Hungary,living in New York and yet idolising commie bastards like Gyurcsány,”
If this doesn’t stop you will not be able to write on this blog. This style may pass at the Jobbik homepage but not here.

Sandor
Guest

And I don’t remember Ricsi, that makes me feel so much better.
Hey Dude! you came here to haunt us?
That’s very considerate of you. Since you are neither able, nor equipped to deal with facts and arguments, at least do some haunting! A jolly good idea.
I personally enjoy being haunted. What a refreshing, invigorating feeling it is to be haunted by a real spook from the nyilas past! Love it!
It also provides a modicum of amusement and the reassurance that we have nothing to worry about when it comes to your kind: you are all nincompoops with zero intellect and zilch humanity.
Comrad Ricsi, SZABADSAG!

Ricsi
Guest

How can I remember somebody who hides behind an anonymous (sic) tag ??
So you were once on the Jobbik forums,and ?
am I to be embarrassed or proud ?
If you and Éva are genuinely not the same ,then I apologise with regards to my assertion.

Odin's lost eye
Guest
Mr Risci. If you had read my item you would have noticed that I had not read the two books (by Joy and Sue). My French is not that good. I read the protocols which I found in a two (old) penny box – A box of bedraggled books for tuppence-. It worried me so I looked into it further and found out all I could about it. The essence of it was that it was a pure fake and was created to justify the ‘Czasist progroms’ which were essentially a way of stealing land and other possessions from the wretched Jews. As the book was about as reliable as the ‘Awful Disclosures of Maria Monk’, my copy of the ‘Protocols’ was returned to the carbon cycle a few pages at a time every day. As to Zionism I would like to know what you Mr Risci really know about it and what are your sources? I was interested to read Mr Necunoscut observations. Unlike him I have little education in the generally accepted sense of the word. Ok I can (and still do occasionally) fix my position by the stars etc, I make almost anything and have designed and… Read more »
Ricsi
Guest

Vándorlo !

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