Fidesz-Jobbik relationship at close quarters

Although here and there the Jobbik parliamentary delegation disagrees with Fidesz-KDNP, overall the relationship is fairly cozy between the government party and the neo-Nazi Jobbik. They especially see eye-to-eye when it comes to the witchhunt of former government officials. Back in early October I wrote about this under the title "Looking for guilty politicians Fidesz-Jobbik style." While doing research for that post I read several days' worth of minutes of the subcommittee on human rights and came to the conclusion that the subcommittee was set up primarily to prepare a show trial of Ferenc Gyurcsány. Way before the subcommittee began hearings, the members had made up their minds that the former prime minister was guilty of instructing the police to attack "peaceful demonstrators" against government terrorism. In its efforts to validate this claim the committee failed spectacularly. No one supplied the eager Jobbik-Fidesz-LMP members (MSZP refused to take part in the proceedings for obvious reasons) with a shred of evidence that would have implicated Ferenc Gyurcsány.

But the Jobbik members of the subcommittee had another agenda: to implicate the socialist-liberal government in the trampling on basic human rights of opposition groups. These groups turned out to be neo-Nazi organizations like Arrows of Hungarians, Lelkiismeret88 (88=HH=Heil Hitler), Hungarian Guard, Sixty-Four Counties, and similar outfits. Jobbik succeeded in that task with the willing assistance of Fidesz and LMP. LMP's role in this disgusting affair is not at all surprising. It has been clear for some time that András Schiffer's opinions on the events of September-October 2006 don't differ much from those of Jobbik.

The report, written by Tamás Gaudi-Nagy (Jobbik), defense lawyer of György Budaházy who can safely be called a terrorist,  and unanimously approved by the members, describes the former governments' policies as systematic attempts to limit legal rights in order to maintain themselves in power. The government attacked those groups who protested against policies that were injurious to the nation and to human rights. According to the report the government used the police as an intrument of oppression, intimidation, and reprisals. And the government tried to convince the world that these demonstrations  were attacks on the peaceful majority by a disorderly rabble. Gaudi-Nagy in a press conference emphasized that all this cannot remain without consequences.

According to Gaudi-Nagy such laws as "the lex egg" and "the lex guard" must be annulled. You may not remember, but there was a ruling that throwing eggs at politicians is not free speech. The "lex guard" of course refers to the decision that pronounced the Hungarian Guard illegal. The examples cited by the subcommittee are almost all connected in one way or the other to the activities of these far-right groups.

The report is completely one-sided. For example, the police are condemned but there is not a word about those who broke into the headquarters of the Hungarian Public Television. The report draws a picture of  Hungary in the last eight years as if it had been a dictatorship where "the representatives of the state limited the most basic political rights."

Those of us who remember the events of 2006 might laugh at the attempt to falsify facts, but unfortunately under the present circumstances the Jobbik-Fidesz threats are not idle. One shimmer of hope is still the Hungarian courts. Almost the same day that the subcommittee's report was released the Budapest Court found seven men guilty in the attack on the headquarters of the television station in September 2006. There is no more opportunity for appeal. Just to show the extent of "dictatorship" in Hungary in the last four years, it is worth recounting that there were originally forty accused but nineteen were found not guilty. Twenty-one were found guilty, but again on appeal most of them were acquitted. Thus remained only seven who have now been found guilty but, with the exception of one, all of them received only suspended sentences. The one who will have to spend one year and eight months in jail was well known to the police. This is not the first time Zoltán K. had run-ins with the law. Zoltán K. and his accomplices were surely not fighting against dictatorship in the name of freedom. And they certainly were not peaceful demonstrators.

Unfortunately, the Fidesz-Jobbik duo is great at changing history at will. They keep repeating lies and eventually people actually believe them. If Krisztina Morvai says fifty times that the police shot out the eyes of thirteen people it seems that eventually everybody believes it. Even if the accusers never produced a single person blinded as a result of the police assault.

Historians will have a hard time sorting things out down the road.

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Thomas
Guest

Sickening.

Member

Never fails to bemuse me that either Fidesz or Jobbik see the parallel between their politics, policies and the Hungarian government of the 1950s they despise so much. The show trials they plan to put on, the “anyone who does not agree is against us”, the despise of the West, and so forth are all to familiar from the 1950s Stalinism.

Paul
Guest

Any Fidesz support of scum like Jobbik is disgusting and OV, Fidesz and their supporters should be deeply ashamed.
I’d like to know how the Fidesz trolls on here ‘justify’ this.

Joe Simon
Guest

‘Fidesz-Jobbik duo’ is surely an exaggeration. As far as I know Orbán has always distanced himself from the extreme right. Also, there are many misguided people supporting the Jobbik. They have a simple philosophy that appeals to people. You will even find former MSZP members among the followers. The success of the Jobbik is based on the total cynicism and disillusionment of the voters regarding politics in Hungary. Many Jobbik supporters are simply naive, believing in simple solution for complex problems, rather than ideologically driven neo-Nazis. It is in the nature of politics that you have to listen to the opposition. See how Obama is yielding to the right. Fidesz has a huge problem to isolate these groups and to show that democracy work.

GW
Guest

“As far as I know Orbán has always distanced himself from the extreme right.”
I would like to have some concrete examples of Orbán publicly distancing himself from the extreme right. He has had plenty of opportunity to simply indicate, for example, that there is no room for anti-Roma politics, anti-semitism or Holocaust denial in modern Hungary, but to the best of my knowledge, his public response has always been silence.

Kevin Moore
Guest

Oh yes we’re at it again.
The “megélhetési rettegők” (those who “fear” for a living), of whom an excellent example the author of this blog is, are at their usual rambling again.
The non-existent organized cooperation between Fidesz and Jobbik.
Until Jobbik has come to the scene, it was Fidesz who was labelled neo-Nazi. Now that Jobbik’s presence makes this ‘argument’ obviously ridiculous, it’s the cooperation between them.
And all this exclusively alleged by those who have the temerity to rabbit about democracy and democrats despite that they are and always were supportive of the Communist dictatorship and its descendant offenders.
Because they are the beneficiaries of that regime and they hold on to the loot with might and main.
There is probably only one group of people in Hungary who totally lack any moral ground to criticize democratic governments and parties, and this is of the aforementioned people.
At least Jobbik has a clean slate. This immediately makes them a lot better than any of the ‘left-wing’ parties in Hungary.
Pinning this down, we can begin the discussion and criticism. With participants who have moral ground to discuss.

Odin's Lost Eye
Guest
There is little difference between the right of Fidesz and Jobbik as a whole. Both parties want their leaders (and themselves) to have absolute and eternal power. The quarrel between them is which toad is to be the great leader. The leaders of Jobbik founded the Hungarian equivalent of the Sturmabteilung or S.A. of evil repute. This is the ‘Hungarian Guard’. I do not know how big this tin pot outfit is. The supposed use of the ‘Magyar Guarda’ was to deny other parties the streets/mail deliveries and other forms of publicity. But despite the ranting of men like Tamás Gaudi-Nagy, Krisztina Morvai and others to change history the real truth is outside there and beyond their control. I think that The ‘Mighty One’ Orban Victor has realised that in the not too distant future Fidesz will also need its own S.A. to put down dissent and physicaly disrupt any opposition. But If I were him I would not even consider making a takeover bid for the ‘Magyar Guarda’. What I have seen of the local mob, as thugs, they are useless. They could not catch a 70 something year old man over a 4 mile chase through the woods.… Read more »
Joe Simon
Guest

Orbán rejected the Magyar Gárda outright. He said ‘we are not going to march out of civilization’. That said it all. By the way the Gárda is a collection of kinder-garteners compared to the Hell’s Angels, the Nomads, the Mongols, groups having enormous power in the US. I am not bashing the US, just putting things in a perspective. How many American politicians have declared lately a crusade against them. Instead Newt Gingrich is back, an ideological friend of Vona Gábor.

Joe Simon
Guest

Well, thnak you for educating me on the American Constitution. The same way, a large portion of the Hungarian electorate sent the Jobbik into the Parliament. So Orbán has to take them into account, if only to take the wind out of their sail.

Eva S. Balogh
Guest

Odin: “If the Senate is controlled by the opposition ‘Mr President’ has to work with it and not allow the country to become ungovernable!”
Correct. But in Hungary Fidesz-KDNP has two-thirds majority. Orbán certainly doesn’t need the help of Jobbik in Parliament. So, members of government present in the discussions could tell Jobbik members off. But they don’t. In fact, often they agree with the Jobbik interpelations. There was for example the question of the director of the National Theater who made the mistake of renting a room to the Romanian Embassy to hold a reception there for the Romanian national holiday. Jobbik demanded that the director of the theater to be fired immediately. Jobbik has other problems with Róbert Alföldi: he is a homosexual and he has ultra-modern ideas about directing. The undersecretary who answered the Jobbik MP fully agreed about the outrageous directing of Alföldi but considered immediately firing a bit hasty. Fidesz makes sure that they satisfy some of the demands of Jobbik and thus this way Jobbik supporters will no longer see the necessity of voting for Jobbik. After all, the government takes care of all those issues they considered to be important.

Julie
Guest

Joe Simon, now you’re just being silly. The Hells Angels et al. are criminal organizations targeted by a half-dozen state and federal law enforcement agencies. They do not have a political agenda or political aspirations. Anyway, I don’t really understand your obsession with the US. Sure, we get things wrong all the time; how does that change anything that’s going on in Hungary?

Member

Kevin Moore: “And all this exclusively alleged by those who have the temerity to rabbit about democracy and democrats despite that they are and always were supportive of the Communist dictatorship and its descendant offenders.”
“At least Jobbik has a clean slate. This immediately makes them a lot better than any of the ‘left-wing’ parties in Hungary.
Pinning this down, we can begin the discussion and criticism. With participants who have moral ground to discuss.”
I am sorry Sir, but I very clearly remember the many published works of Mr Istvan Csurka as well as his movies, like Het Tonna Dollar under the Communist times. Not a bad feast for someone who did not “support the Communist Dictatorship”. Let’s not even mention his III/III agent background. For sure he has all the moral ground. How about Krisztina Morvai, who’s radical views are so twisted and wicked that even those who she supposed to speak up for do not want any affiliation with her, like Daud Abdullah, deputy secretary of the Muslim Council of Britain. So, you just probably kidding about the moral grounds of Jobbik.

Karl Pfeifer
Guest

@Kevin
>>”megélhetési rettegők” (those who “fear” for a living), of whom an excellent example the author of this blog is, are at their usual rambling again.<<
Instead of argument comes libel.
I cannot understand why you believe that you have to libel the author of this blog. You seem really to discuss in the fashion some communist did in the past.
During the 2nd WW an american delegation of the airforce visited a military airfield near Moscow. When they saw several american airplanes grounded, they asked for the reason and received the answer "and how do you deal with your Negroes?"
As @someone@ has shown a great many former communist or III/III informers are today to be found in Fidesz.

Joe Simon
Guest

I am amazed again and again at the extremist views of the Hungarian political scene expressed here. Soon all Hungarians will be called followers of Nazism. Look at the recent cover of The Economist, showing a bunch cowboys riding in, with Sarah Palin in the middle. A lynching mob ready to take things in their own hand. Even Donald Trump chimed in on the CNN the other day. What the US needs now is someone with a colt in his belt and not a bleeding heart democrat like Obama. Well there is the Jobbik for you. Well meaning people looking for simple solutions. Yet I would not call Pailin a neo-Nazi. This Blog is very liberal applying its epithets.

Karl Pfeifer
Guest

Joe Simon, stop your demagogy. Nobody calls all Hungarians Nazi. But Jobbik is a national-socialist party. Nowhere in Western Europe can one hear such open racist, anti-Semitic and homophobic hate speech than at the gathering of the Jobbik mobs.
Since this Blog does not publish articles on the USA but on Hungary you probably should stop wandering off the subject matter.

Paul
Guest

I’m starting to think ‘Joe’ is a bot. He not only constantly repeats the same themes, even when we point out how daft they are, but he even repeats whole sections of his posts from one comment to another, sometimes word for word.
But, on the assumption that there is actually a human operating ‘Joe’, you’re not doing yourself any favours by constantly harping on about America. It just looks like you haven’t got any arguments about the awful things happeining in Hungary (with your blessing), so you’re just trying to create a smokescreen.
We’re here on this blog because we are interested in Hungary (some of us, God help us, even care about Hungary), not because we’re interested in or care about America.
Now, let’s have some rational argument from you justifying what is going in in Hungary, not America. That is, if you CAN jusify it.

Paul
Guest

Incidently, it’s interesting what happens if you simply replace ‘Jobbik’ with ‘Fidesz’ in ‘Joe”s posts.
An example:
“Also, there are many misguided people supporting Fidesz. They have a simple philosophy that appeals to people. You will even find former MSZP members among the followers. The success of Fidesz is based on the total cynicism and disillusionment of the voters regarding politics in Hungary. Many Fidesz supporters are simply naive, believing in simple solution for complex problems…”
Makes perfect sense!
Which is more than can be said for the next part of that particular post:
“It is in the nature of politics that you have to listen to the opposition.”
Staggering as it might seem, he appears to be talking about Fidesz here. When did they last listen to MSzP?? It’s difficult to listen to an opposition when you walk out every time their leader speaks, and win elections by claiming that he and his entire government are criminals and the first thing you’re going to do when you get into to power is to put them all on trial. (We’re still waiting, by the way.)
It seems that an essential requirement for supporting Fisesz is a complete reality bypass.

Paul
Guest

Another amusement to pass these long winter evenings – copy a ‘Kevin’ post and take out all the personal attacks and invective.
This is what you have left if you do it to his latest post (above):
“The non-existent organized cooperation between Fidesz and Jobbik.
Until Jobbik has come to the scene, it was Fidesz who was labelled neo-Nazi. Now that Jobbik’s presence makes this ‘argument’ obviously ridiculous, it’s the cooperation between them.
At least Jobbik has a clean slate. This immediately makes them a lot better than any of the ‘left-wing’ parties in Hungary.”
OK, it’s still rabid maddness (especially the ‘clean slate’ remark!), but at least it’s considerably shorter rabid madness.

John T
Guest

Paul – I think you have Joe wrong here. I don’t consider him a “bot”. This blog would be a much more boring place if it didn’t have opposing views and while I would disagree with a lot of what Joe says. I’m glad he does post. And compared to Kevin and co, he doesn’t resort to namecalling when debating.
What I would say is that Joe is similar to my dad, family members and Hungarian friends. Where I may say something that is considered critical of Hungary, they will often immediately compare the position in other countries. I think we all have this type of defence mechanism – the “my country right or wrong” scenario. But I find this more noticable in Hungary.

Joe Simon
Guest

I think that it is often helpful to put the situation in Hungary in a perspective. There exists the extreme right in the US, people looking for simple solutions. They are very much like the Jobbik. I have seen of one of their posters in Hungary showing Áprpád apánk riding into Europe. So lets follow his example, lets put things in order from a horseback. This kind of simplistic thinking reminded me of the cover of The Economist. Sarah Pailin and his fellow conservatives riding in to set things right in Washington. That is all.

Paul
Guest

Yeah, and as long as we’re worrying about nutters in the US, the nutters here in Hungary can do what they like.
Job done.

Odin's Lost Eye
Guest

Professor you say in your reply to me ** “Correct. But in Hungary Fidesz-KDNP has two-thirds majority. Orbán certainly doesn’t need the help of Jobbik in Parliament ” **
You do not understand the ‘Mighty One’ (Orban Victor) he may have a 66.667% majority but that is not enough for him. He must have at least 110% majority.
In a few months he will become (by rotation) the president of the EU. This megalomaniac will try to demand that ALL will bow down and worship him. I cannot see the P.M. of the UK (Mr Brown) let alone Ms Merkel or M Sarkozy doing anything of the kind. He cannot, and will not, tolerate such disobedience to his mightiness.
He and his coterie of mates will do everything they can to destroy those who stand in his way to so that he will become the permanent president of Europe.
I dislike the man and all he stands for. I know what such toads cost in human lives.

Paul
Guest
John, I assume you haven’t been reading this blog for long, or maybe you’ve been away for a while? ‘Joe’ is just the latest in a long line of Fidesz trolls, trying to appear genuine people with different views to ‘ours’ (they always assume a) we all think the same, and b) we are communists/socialists). But actually they are just Fidesz avatars, repeating the Fidesz propagana they are fed. If you doubt this, just read back a few weeks. You’ll find several interesting things: 1) They always have entirely unbelievable ‘English’ names. 2) These posters only ever post on threads where they consider Fidesz to be ‘under attack’. You’ll never see them on any other threads, no mattrer how Hungarian the subject matter. And when Mark died, not one of them commented on it. 3) They never attempt to argue any substantial points put by other posters, all they do is repeat and expand ‘their’ own views, or resort to abuse. Attempt to get one of them to address a particular point, even if you ask many times on different threads, and you will be disappointed. 4) They always have one of two ‘personalities’: they are either a ‘Kevin’, who… Read more »
Member

Odin, I think you’ll find that Mr Cameron is now the UK PM…

Member

Joe: I guarantee that not “all Hungarians will be called followers of Nazism”. Fortunately there are plenty of very decent Hungarians are around in Hungary (including my father, my mother and my sister). Many Fidesz sympathizers are also great people, and I hope they will wake up one day (and some are already at the point) and demand transparency, real measures and real democracy.
You certainly lost me at your Sarah Palin line of thought.
Odin’s Lost Eye: Actually I am looking forward for Orban taking its turn. Until now the EU only knew Orban on a very superficial way. It will be a wake up call for members. What he can sell in Hungary for Hungarians, he will not be able to sell for Europe. Nobody buys into his nationalistic and populist ideas that has no real content. Also the rest of Europe is not blinded by someone who just happened to find God after his journey from KISZ Titkar while his daddy was a parttitkar. In most countries God and State are separated.

Karl Pfeifer
Guest

someone I liked that about the past of V.O.
There was a catholic MDF minister during the beginning of the 90ies. V.O. was sitting in parliament behind him. Whenever the minister stood up to speak, V.O. was saying behind his back “on the knees”.
A wonderful transformation from an anticlerical to a clerical politician.

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