László Bartus: A couple of slaps in the face (Népszava)

Below is a translation of an article that appeared in today’s Népszava (Hungary)László Bartus is the editor-in-chief of the Amerikai Magyar Népszavathe oldest Hungarian-language paper in the United States.

* * *

Because I was the one who once managed to shut down kuruc.info, which was using a server in the United States, I know that the U.S. government does not have the authority  to forbid the operation of an objectionable website. That is legally and physically impossible. We are talking here about a civil contract that is the outside the purview of the American government. The owner of the server spells out in his “privacy policy” to what extent he allows the use of his server for racist, homophobic, or pedophiliac content.  But if the American server owner doesn’t know Hungarian, he has no idea that the site doesn’t conform to the terms of the privacy policy. This was the case with kuruc.info and its American server owner.

Since the server kuruc.info used at the time was very close to my apartment, I simply visited the owners and asked them whether they had any idea about the contents of kuruc.info. After requesting the services of an official interpreter, the owner whose name happened to be Joshua announced that he had never in his life read so much filth. Kuruc.info was immediately shut down. However, within an hour kuruc.info was back in business. They found another server whose owner also didn’t have the foggiest idea what was being spread on the Hungarian-language website. If he knew, he most likely would also have shut down kuruc.info. Thus, it should be clear by now that within half an hour kuruc.info would be functioning again from another server. This fact should be known to Viktor Orbán because, after all, this incident took place during the previous administration and was widely discussed in the media.

Getting rid of kuruc.info cannot be approached by a futile chase of server owners but  by eliminating the activities of the editors.  The website is edited in Hungary and not in the United States. So, instead of demanding satisfaction from the United States the Hungarian government could easily gather the editors of the website at any time which would mean the end of kuruc.info.  If the Hungarian national security office hasn’t been able in the last ten years to discover the persons responsible for the publication of kuruc.info it should be disbanded because of incompetence. According to news reports one of the editors is a member of parliament who is scraping together his meager livelihood at the taxpayers’ expense.  If there are no legal grounds for the editors’ arrest, the present government with its two-thirds majority could easily take care of that. That is, if it had any such intention. But it doesn’t.

I’m reminding people of all this not because anyone thinks that Viktor Orbán in his letter to the fifty U.S. congressmen is really worried about kuruc.info. Rather, the Hungarian prime minister in his answer makes the United States responsible for anti-Semitism in Hungary. As if it were kuruc.info’s responsibility that there is anti-Semitism in Hungary. Orbán insinuates that Hungarian anti-Semitism is being assisted from the United States. As if the renting of a private server would mean active assistance. He implicitly accuses the United States government of being a supporter of anti-Semitism. This is slander and outrage. The foreign ministry of a democratic country doesn’t permit sending such a letter to members of a foreign legislature.

Stepping on it

But the problem is even greater than this calumny. Orbán’s own letter actually proves that the government winks at the far right. This letter sends a message to the anti-Semites. In an indirect way he insinuates that American Jews are behind Hungarian anti-Semitism. And the real target is him, not the Jews. Orbán’s  tone resembles the style of kuruc.info.  It makes the American congressmen sound ridiculous, he cynically mocks those who express their concern over the human rights of the Hungarian Jewry. To put it mildly, this is not done in the United States. This style reminds people here of Hugo Chávez and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Orbán cannot speak with American congressmen as he does with Előd Novák, Jobbik MP, in parliament. Such talk is understood in the United States for what it is. The Hungarian prime minister is causing immeasurable moral and material damage to Hungary. A statesman cannot send such an insolent answer, especially since the Americans wrote a very polite letter in which they spoke highly of Hungary and talked exclusively of the anti-Semitism of Jobbik, not that of Fidesz.

Orbán should explain why the government parties tacitly support the cult of Miklós Horthy who was responsible for the deportation of the large majority of the Hungarian Jewry. Why do they include Albert Wass, an anti-Semitic war criminal, in the national curriculum? Or why does László Kövér during a memorial service ask Hungarians to embrace the intellectual heritage of a fascist writer? And what about the “freedom fight against international capital”? Only anti-Semites speak of “colonizing international finance capital.”

Before the elections Orbán promised to take care of extremists. Quoting Miklós Horthy, he announced that a couple of slaps on the face and he will chase them all the way home. By now the situation has come to the point that he should slap around some of the people, including himself, within his own party because they speak the language of the anti-Semites. But instead he apportioned a couple of slaps to the United States which most likely is greatly appreciated by the Hungarian extremists. But those who are laughing now might cry later because perhaps now people in the United States understand that in Hungary the greatest problem is not the kuruc.info and not Jobbik. The problem lies elsewhere.

68 comments

  1. London Calling!

    László Bartus – Thank you.

    What a pity Orban’s strangulation of Hungary’s media prevents this from being published in Hungary. The people of Hungary should know.

    The power of your words, the integrity and emotional attachment to Hungary are palpable.

    That you have unstitched the lies of a leader of a nation – no less – is just awesome.

    Thank you

    Regards

    Charlie

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  2. I fully agree with this statement: “The Hungarian prime minister is causing immeasurable moral and material damage to Hungary.”

    And I’m doing my part. Because of the current political situation in Hungary, I decided earlier this year not to visit like I usually do. In fact I will not visit Hungary (or should I call it Orbánia) until Viktor Orbán is history. Also, I will not buy anything produced or manufactured in Hungary. (I thought I would miss the wine but I don’t. There’s lots of excellent stuff out there that is not Hungarian.) I will not encourage anyone to go to Hungary. I will inform them about the rabid antisemitism, homophobia, xenophobia, racism, etc. that goes unchecked in this EU (really??) nation.

    I feel sorry for the good people there. Some of them are my friends. However, as Edmund Burke wrote, “all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

    Viktor Orbán, j’accuse!

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  3. @Charlie, OV’s message is for domestic consumption. It’s been my experience that even the most well intended Hungarian has little if any understanding as to how the US or Canada is organized. They know almost nothing w.r.t the separation of powers, the responsibility of the federal (or national) government verses those of individual states or provinces. Heck, they are even shocked to learn that neither the Canadian nor the American federal governments issue drivers licenses. Given this lack of understanding… and couple this with governments which are far less authoritarian and you’ve an opportunity that is ripe for exploitation.

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  4. I agree with Bartus’ letter (as I agreed years ago with his actions against kuruc.info).

    Unfortunately, I doubt that members of the US Congress will read or care about the opinion of the publisher of a Canadian-Hungarian paper.

    As far as Orban is concerned, if he didn’t care about threats from various EU organizations and the IMF, does anyone think that he’ll care about Bartus’ opinion piece? The way things go though, he or his jobbik friends may send someone with a poisoned umbrella after him…

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  5. Öcsi: “And I’m doing my part. Because of the current political situation in Hungary, I decided earlier this year not to visit like I usually do.”

    I heard this from some Transylvanian friends of mine, previously yearly visitors. Kolozsvar/Cluj is now accessible by plane from several other European capitals, there is no need to land in Budapest first.

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  6. It is becoming abundantly clear just how sick a person Orban is: he will strut and fret upon any stage to be noticed. He will surround himself with nincompoops like Matolcsy and Kover who, for sure, will keep the spotlight
    on the mini-Hitler personality that’s not so hidden in the Orbanster. Anything
    to make a fuss. And the more that suffer the greater his notoriety; and, presumably, his sickly, cackling pleasure increases thereby.

    When will people wake up and notice that there is something desperately wrong with this little man.

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  7. London Calling!

    Öcsi – I just wanted to commend you on your action.

    I’m sure it will make your contacts inside Hungary realise how serious this diplomatic faux pax is – almost implying that the President of the United States’ administration is anti-Semitic and racist – and then taking another perfidious route.

    Loathsome Orban – (and of course that loathsome Martonyi – who I believe is the author of these hopeless letters.)

    Democracy in action – well done.

    As I’ve said before here – it is our only power.

    A pity that more people inside Hungary don’t exercise it.

    Regards

    Charlie

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  8. London Calling!

    ….and you made me think too.

    I am staying in Hungary shortly – my partner is visiting her family.

    I always try and buy things in Hungary – to support their commerce.

    But I will ensure that I am as self-sufficient as possible – and buy the minimum inside Hungary as possible.

    Small (tiny!) protests – but protests nevertheless.

    Regards

    Charlie

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  9. Thank you, Eva, for publishing this!

    That letter is very clear – whether it will be read by the people responsible for the rise of kuruc etc is not really certain …

    @Öcsi and Charlie:

    I understand your boycott – but I’m not sure it will help the Hungarian people. So I’m trying a different strategy: I tell everybody I know about these problems and the bad image that Hungary gets by allowing the antisemitic and other antidemocratic (homophobic eg) propaganda. The interesting fact is, that many younger people know about this – in German we would say: Ich renne offene Türen ein …

    But they also don’t know what to do – many of them just consider leaving Hungary for work abroad (or for good …).

    PS: Many young people are leaving Hungary – even here from Héviz where chances for getting a good job are high …

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  10. London Calling!

    Wolfi – yes I take your point – but we all feel so helpless.

    Strategy Modified:

    1. I will maintain my mini-boycott in the hope that an apology will be forthcoming – yes I know – vain hope!
    2. I would like to obtain the link to the original in Hungarian and when in Hungary I will print off copies and will ensure at least my partner’s circle are fully aware. (I have full internet in Hungary now fortunately – and internet radio! – Wow! Little England here we come!)
    3. Fortunately the article stands on its own – so it just has to be read.

    Eva Can you help please?

    How I explain the phenomenon of an Englishman – who can’t speak a word of Hungarian – becoming so involved in Hungarian politics I know not! I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

    Ok at least I know ‘Angol’!

    Regards

    Charlie

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  11. gdfxx :

    Unfortunately, I doubt that members of the US Congress will read or care about the opinion of the publisher of a Canadian-Hungarian paper.

    You would be surprised if you knew who are reading this blog. I’m sure that the congressmen will at least hear about it.

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  12. wolfi :

    @Öcsi and Charlie:
    I understand your boycott – but I’m not sure it will help the Hungarian people.

    I’ve been helping the Hungarian people most of my life.

    In the late 50s and early 60s we used to send bags of used clothes to relatives because it helped them. We used to send razor blades in the mail because relatives said they couldn’t buy good blades there. I travelled to Hungary every chance I got. I encouraged friends to join us and many did. I’ve been to more cities and towns in Hungary than any of my relatives or friends who live there.

    But now I’m totally sick of what is happening there. The country is run by idiots and, rather than challenging them, young people flee to other countries and older people disengage from politics. And the educated classes? Too often I’ve heard racist and homophobic comments pass their lips. For too many, ‘buzi’ is as common a word as ‘damn’ Not a winning strategy!

    So, no, I’m not going to help the Hungarian people until they learn to help themselves. Tough love is all I can give now.

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  13. Eva S. Balogh :

    gdfxx :
    Unfortunately, I doubt that members of the US Congress will read or care about the opinion of the publisher of a Canadian-Hungarian paper.

    You would be surprised if you knew who are reading this blog. I’m sure that the congressmen will at least hear about it.

    I have sent this blog to the staffer of a couple congressional staffers.

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  14. Thank you Mr. Bartus and thanks Éva for the translation of this article. It should be sent to the 50 congress members.
    I am against boycott. Such one would only help Orbán to declare “we are alone”, “the whole world is against the Hungarians”.
    Orbán and his ilk should be boycotted, they should not be invited and if the come to the USA no official reception should take place.

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  15. Dr Balogh: “You would be surprised if you knew who are reading this blog. I’m sure that the congressmen will at least hear about it.”

    Yesterday Obama was touring Ohio and I went to one of the events. He yelled over “Hey Louis, what do you think of the Hungarian Spectrum?”

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  16. Karl Pfeifer :

    I am against boycott. Such one would only help Orbán to declare “we are alone”, “the whole world is against the Hungarians”.

    Hungarians have wallowed in that sentiment for a very long time. It’s a favourite pastime. I think they should get over it already. Besides, only the wilfully ignorant will not search out international news sources.

    What I would like Hungarians to learn is that there are real consequences to how they vote and who they elect. If it’s “business as usual,” they will have learnt nothing. It will be like the pre-1989 days when one’s vote really didn’t matter, or count.

    If you’re waiting for a diplomatic boycott, it won’t happen while Hungary is an EU member.

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  17. Louis Kovach :
    Dr Balogh: “You would be surprised if you knew who are reading this blog. I’m sure that the congressmen will at least hear about it.”
    Yesterday Obama was touring Ohio and I went to one of the events. He yelled over “Hey Louis, what do you think of the Hungarian Spectrum?”

    Ahh, yes, Louis, another of those lovely Cleveland Hungarians, eh? We’ve heard about you post-war escapees to the hinterland of American. Remember the film, “The Music Box”?
    Based on fact, as you well know.

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  18. Petrivics: “Based on fact” as you claim. “It is loosely based on the real life case of John Demjanjuk and, as well, on Joe Eszterhas’ own life, since he later discovered that his father was a former Nazi collaborator in Hungary.” Now you may know (or more likely not) that Demjanjuk (not Hungarian) was acquitted by the Supreme Court of Israel.
    Istvan Eszterhas was a writer (hmmm maybe he will also be so popularaized here that his work will become compulsory reading in Hungary).

    But, again, sorry your “generalization” for Cleveland is uncalled for. There are many third, fourth generation Hungarians there. The major Hungarian settlement in Cleveland occurred in the early past of the XX century.

    Next will you accuse me of being the member of the Stern gang? :-)

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  19. Louis Kovach :
    Dr Balogh: “You would be surprised if you knew who are reading this blog. I’m sure that the congressmen will at least hear about it.”

    Yesterday Obama was touring Ohio and I went to one of the events. He yelled over “Hey Louis, what do you think of the Hungarian Spectrum?”

    Really…you log-in just to write this?

    I think Obama yelled : hey, you bug mouth go back to HUngary and suffer with your own kind!

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  20. Thank you Eva & Bartus for this piece.

    —-
    We only boycott CBA. It has caused some inconvenience and I feel stupid at times doing it especially people around you do not understand what is all the fuss about …

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  21. Louis Kovach :
    Petrivics: “Based on fact” as you claim. “It is loosely based on the real life case of John Demjanjuk and, as well, on Joe Eszterhas’ own life, since he later discovered that his father was a former Nazi collaborator in Hungary.” Now you may know (or more likely not) that Demjanjuk (not Hungarian) was acquitted by the Supreme Court of Israel.
    Istvan Eszterhas was a writer (hmmm maybe he will also be so popularaized here that his work will become compulsory reading in Hungary).
    But, again, sorry your “generalization” for Cleveland is uncalled for. There are many third, fourth generation Hungarians there. The major Hungarian settlement in Cleveland occurred in the early past of the XX century.
    Next will you accuse me of being the member of the Stern gang?

    Interesting that you brought up Demjanuk. He was, as you obviously known, staunchly defended by an Israeli, Yoram Sheftel, and yes, the Israeli Supreme Court “….restrained ourselves from convicting the appellant…because of doubt…”

    How different is that approach to our own Budai who violently accuses on the slightest pretext?

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  22. Cloudfare currently hosts Kuruc.

    Cloudfare Terms of use Section 11, Item 1. Prohibited Uses

    “upload, post, transmit, or otherwise make available any content that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortious, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another’s privacy, hateful, or racially, ethnically, or otherwise objectionable;”

    Cloudfare
    +1 (650) 319-8930
    665 3rd St. #207
    San Francisco, CA 94107
    USA

    Some of you might politely let them know they are hosting an antisemitic, racist, and homophobic site.

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  23. Ron :
    If Cloudfare is hosting Kuruc.info. Just provide them the following link: http://kuruc.info/r/40/27066/
    It is in English, and explain very well what this website is all about.

    I wonder if this will work. Maybe some selected translations of some their articles would, like this one http://kuruc.info/r/8/98417/, where they are quoting a 1944 article that expresses hope in the various V rockets of the German army that may lead to their victory (and I am sure there are many others, I usually don’t read this site.

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  24. If we boycott Hungary by not going there, we miss the chance to make our own judgement. Öcsi, I suppose you are Hungarian and this is certainly something different. To boycott CBA and Pick, I will keep in mind.

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  25. enufff :
    Thank you Eva & Bartus for this piece.
    —-
    We only boycott CBA. It has caused some inconvenience and I feel stupid at times doing it especially people around you do not understand what is all the fuss about …

    It’s easy to boycott CBA… it sucks!

    Has anyone noticed the plummeting price of petrol?

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  26. Petrivics: “How different is that approach to our own Budai who violently accuses on the slightest pretext?”
    Not to different, Budai is not the court. There were lots of “Budai’s” indicting Demjanjuk.

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  27. I am not sure that sending emails to server hosts is the answer. As Bartus rightly pointed out, these scums would simply move on an other server. There are thousands of servers out there. WHat are you going to do check the Kuruc each day to see here they have loaded up their filth? Removing their content is like treating the pain but not the cause of the pain. Orban pretends to not understand it is the source, that needs to be shut, not all the leaks.

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  28. Some1 :
    I am not sure that sending emails to server hosts is the answer. As Bartus rightly pointed out, these scums would simply move on an other server. There are thousands of servers out there. WHat are you going to do check the Kuruc each day to see here they have loaded up their filth? Removing their content is like treating the pain but not the cause of the pain. Orban pretends to not understand it is the source, that needs to be shut, not all the leaks.

    There are some little gadgets out. It will take you 2 seconds to find out who is hosting the website. Just check out http://www.whoishostingthis.com

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  29. @Some1, even if every server provider were to shutdown Kuruc all they’d have to do is get a permanent IP address and they could host the site on their (smart) phone.

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  30. Some1 :
    I am not sure that sending emails to server hosts is the answer. As Bartus rightly pointed out, these scums would simply move on an other server. There are thousands of servers out there. WHat are you going to do check the Kuruc each day to see here they have loaded up their filth? Removing their content is like treating the pain but not the cause of the pain. Orban pretends to not understand it is the source, that needs to be shut, not all the leaks.

    Bartus did point out that they will move to a new host, but that did not prevent him from asking the current web host to take the site down.

    Why not make life difficult for Kuruc? Time spent porting to a new web host is time not spent publishing their filth. It is partially true that Kuruc is a symptom and not the cause. But access to Kuruc makes it more likely that the cause will spread as impressionable youth are exposed to their propaganda. And that is what Kuruc is, a propaganda site. They are part of the efforts to mainstream bigotry in Hungary and dealing with them is part of the solution.

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  31. Pete H. :
    Bartus did point out that they will move to a new host, but that did not prevent him from asking the current web host to take the site down.
    Why not make life difficult for Kuruc? Time spent porting to a new web host is time not spent publishing their filth.

    tar -cvf website.tar website
    ftp tar ball to new host
    tar -xf website.tar
    fix crecord

    Should take about 10 minutes max unless you’re using a service such as typepad or wordpress 😉

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  32. LwiH: Or go to the website whoishostingthis dot com.

    I have to do this like this, otherwise I need to wait for moderator. This will take 2 sec.

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  33. LwiiH :

    Pete H. :
    Bartus did point out that they will move to a new host, but that did not prevent him from asking the current web host to take the site down.
    Why not make life difficult for Kuruc? Time spent porting to a new web host is time not spent publishing their filth.

    tar -cvf website.tar website
    ftp tar ball to new host
    tar -xf website.tar
    fix crecord
    Should take about 10 minutes max unless you’re using a service such as typepad or wordpress

    They also need to search for a new site. Sign up for it. In the meantime they will have a period of time their site is down.

    Really it is a bit more complicated than that and hardly is a ten minute process overall.

    http://www.smoothwebmove.com/movingprocess.html

    And if you work in IT, you know things never go as smoothly as you think they will.

    It’s also a political act to get this site removed from a web host. It tends to raise awareness and bring attention it. Something that is needed in the overall effort to battle anti-semitism in Hungary. It might motivate someone to write a critical article about Kuruc. Activism is in large part about agitating. You never know what will be the things that finally gets real results. Perhaps the attention to Kuruc might finally motivate the Hungarian government to go after the editors. Perhaps it will have no impact whatsoever. It is easy to naysay, One thing is certain, inaction never gets you anything.

    It took me a total of five minutes to find and write the web host what I think is a convincing email. I’ve saved the email. For the next host it will take me about 60 seconds to alert them to what they are hosting. And every time the site comes down, I’ll get a tiny bit of satisfaction.

    This is hardly my only form of activism regarding what is going on in Hungary. I have conversations with Reps, Senators, and the State Department. I’ve giving support to organizations doing progressive work in Hungary, etc.

    So what have you done lately to deal with this issue?

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  34. What about Neo-nazis in the US? They thrive pretty well in many parts of the US and have their own marches. And yes and kuruc.info is hosted in US and because of free speech US officials can’t take them down and neither can ban American Nazis who have a long history in the US. Why this double standard regarding Hungary? Free speech over the Atlantic and not over here in Hungary. And by the way Amerikai Magyar Népszava is not even edited in the US, but in Hungary and they are trouble with the American IRS for failing to pay any taxes as they were registered as a company in the US. Just compare antisemitism in Hungary to what is happening in France or Belgium. US is in no position to teach Hungary lessons about racism knowing it’s long history of racial segregation which continues even nowadays .

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  35. @Eric, if you’re looking for a perfect world… you’re right, there isn’t such a thing. That said, the US and a number of other countries are open about their problems with hate speech and are actually doing something to try to combat it. I don’t see that happening here. In fact I see more militia members and activities here then I ever have in the US or any where else for that matter. As for segregation, can you please point out where segregation is still practiced in the US?

    As for freedom of speech, there are limits. Hate speech or speech inciting criminal behaviour is not tolerated. After that…. just because you don’t agree means you can muzzle. If that were the case Obama would of had Rush Limbaugh muzzled a long time ago. Oh right, Bush being a good right wing due himself did have the white house press muzzled by excluding reporters that asked uncomfortable questions. But that was about the extent of what he could do. He certainly couldn’t put radio stations out of business by misappropriating government funds or influencing the FCC into not granting broadcast licenses. Oh my, I guess there are nasty politics in the US also…

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  36. Erik! The congressmen were complaining about the Hungarian government officials praising nazis. Don’t you think this is a bit different? You are trying to create the same fog as the impertinent Orban letter. In Hungary the national curriculum has nazis now under the FIDESZ government. Do you think this is the same as a KKK march in the US? By the way where is the double standard here? Do you think the congressmen endorse the nazis in the US, so they should endorse nazis in the Hungarian parliament too? Hmmm … I see your point.

    “US is in no position to teach Hungary lessons about racism knowing it’s long history of racial segregation which continues even nowadays”

    I don’t even comment on this … it’s a joke. The Magyar Nemzet writes like this for the average peace marcher bumpkin. The US has gone a long way to erase racial segregation. We are about to re-elect a black man in case you haven’t noticed.

    Th US representatives will voice their opinion whether you like it or not. Just like the US ambassador to Hungary was marching with the Hungarian gays and lesbians yesterday on the Budapest pride. Where were the Hungarian politicians?

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  37. Pete H. :
    And if you work in IT, you know things never go as smoothly as you think they will.

    I work in IT but I’m not really interested in getting into a pissing match over how long it takes to move a website. My point is/was, you can harasses these guys endlessly and they will always be able to host the site be it with a provider or their own smart phone. Trying to take down the site that way is akin to poking your finger into the hole in the dyke. Better to work on taking away their *fan base* and in doing so the site becomes irrelevant.

    It’s also a political act to get this site removed from a web host. It tends to raise awareness and bring attention it. Something that is needed in the overall effort to battle anti-semitism in Hungary.

    It’s a legal act to get a site removed from a webhost. But the second point is spot on.

    This is hardly my only form of activism regarding what is going on in Hungary. I have conversations with Reps, Senators, and the State Department. I’ve giving support to organizations doing progressive work in Hungary, etc.
    So what have you done lately to deal with this issue?

    There is no point to activism in Hungary as there is no party that is willing to listen. The politicians in all parties here are so arrogant that they don’t feel any need to respond to the needs of their constituents. In fact, the whole electoral system is setup in such a way that there’s not even a hint of needing to be responsive to people. All I can do is depress the locals even further by countering the propaganda that they are bombarded with on a daily bases. The stories of real corruption.. not the petty stuff that you see in the news. All I can do is re-educate my children so they have a balanced view that is based in fact, not fiction. All I can do is pull my kids from classes that are completely beyond any governments role in education. What the politicians have failed to grasp is that they do need to become responsive to the electorate and not just during elections. I thought that maybe that lesson was delivered when MSzP got wiped out in the last election.. but no, the response is, lets corrupt the system even further so that can’t happen to us. Do you want to know why so few people vote and why I expect the next elections will have an even lower voter turn out? It’s because the spoke and OV was the answer…. Please sir, can I have another?

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  38. Only the Fidesz-KDNP politicians were not there. I saw a group of DK people; Gyurcsany sent a letter and explained why he couldn’t be present.I also saw a group of MSZP people. And of course I saw the Jobbik brute, György Zagyva with the anti-demonstrators. Yelling his head off.

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  39. Two remarks to the “trust me, I’m in IT” guys.

    Uno: They are very likely distributed. Most of the static content comes from kuruc.org for instance. So they have to move a lot less. I’m guessing, but very likely this is the case.

    Due: It appears they use CloudFare. This was a brilliant idea. Here are some geek stuff about it:
    http://www.quora.com/How-does-CloudFlare-work

    Well, anyway, going after the physical servers is hopeless, at least in countries like the US.

    The point here, again, is Orban’s impertinence. Or maybe just his sheer stupidity (we all know that he can barely turn on a computer). By the way if the Hungarian government would go after the Kuruc guys in Hungary they will move the editing to the US. No big deal. It is what it is. There isn’t much we can do about them.

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  40. Eva S. Balogh :
    Only the Fidesz-KDNP politicians were not there.

    Oh, yes I know. That’s what I wanted to write.

    The was also a joint press release to support the event by the Embassies of Austria, Australia, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Finland, Germany, Ireland, The Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Sweden, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, and the United States. No biggie but Orban the 5th and his buddies should take a note.

    http://hungary.usembassy.gov/pr_06282012.html

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  41. Mutt Damon :
    The point here, again, is Orban’s impertinence. Or maybe just his sheer stupidity (we all know that he can barely turn on a computer). By the way if the Hungarian government would go after the Kuruc guys in Hungary they will move the editing to the US. No big deal. It is what it is. There isn’t much we can do about them.

    @Mutt, first, thanks for pointer to the DNS lesson. ;-)… What you’ve said is my point… and so sorry it’s so inconvenient to muzzle someone’s voice… but that’s the way it is in a country with free speech. As much as you might like to, you don’t get to choose who gets to say what…

    View Comment
  42. Pete H. :
    Cloudfare currently hosts Kuruc.
    Cloudfare Terms of use Section 11, Item 1. Prohibited Uses
    “upload, post, transmit, or otherwise make available any content that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortious, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another’s privacy, hateful, or racially, ethnically, or otherwise objectionable;”
    Cloudfare
    +1 (650) 319-8930
    665 3rd St. #207
    San Francisco, CA 94107
    USA
    Some of you might politely let them know they are hosting an antisemitic, racist, and homophobic site.

    I am on the phone with Cloudfare, and they are NOT a hosting site. They are web performance and security company that proxies traffic. If you would like to report an abusive site, like Kuruc, then go to this link:

    https://www.cloudflare.com/abuse/

    Cloudflare will send you the original IP addresses, and then you need to look up and contact the actual hosting providers.

    View Comment
  43. Just a small detail so we don’t get too much confusion: The name is cloudfLare – spelled with two “Ls”.

    Don’t know if there is a chance that they might stop transferring those kuruc messsages -my Hungarian is rather limited, but the pictures are enough for me.

    View Comment
  44. Respect Beauty :

    Pete H. :
    Cloudfare currently hosts Kuruc.
    Cloudfare Terms of use Section 11, Item 1. Prohibited Uses
    “upload, post, transmit, or otherwise make available any content that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortious, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another’s privacy, hateful, or racially, ethnically, or otherwise objectionable;”
    Cloudfare
    +1 (650) 319-8930
    665 3rd St. #207
    San Francisco, CA 94107
    USA
    Some of you might politely let them know they are hosting an antisemitic, racist, and homophobic site.

    I am on the phone with Cloudfare, and they are NOT a hosting site. They are web performance and security company that proxies traffic. If you would like to report an abusive site, like Kuruc, then go to this link:
    https://www.cloudflare.com/abuse/
    Cloudflare will send you the original IP addresses, and then you need to look up and contact the actual hosting providers.

    I’ve posted a complaint. Crossing fingers …

    View Comment
  45. This is from CloudFlare. I included the link about Jewish Crime. They are saying it’s “bad taste”.

    *****

    CloudFlare received your abuse report dated July 9, 2012 regarding:
    kuruc.info

    Your abuse report was denied due to a lack of evidence. Unless you have a specific link to content that is inciting violence this is not in violation. It may be in poor taste, but it’s not calling for violence.

    CloudFlare does not censor content online, but we do comply with law enforcement agencies as appropriate.

    We value feedback from our community and will continue to work to make the service better for everyone.

    Please see this blog post: http://blog.cloudflare.com/58611873

    If you feel you have received this message in error, please resubmit the report in 7 days with more details.

    View Comment
  46. Mutt Damon :
    Erik! The congressmen were complaining about the Hungarian government officials praising nazis. Don’t you think this is a bit different? You are trying to create the same fog as the impertinent Orban letter. In Hungary the national curriculum has nazis now under the FIDESZ government. Do you think this is the same as a KKK march in the US? By the way where is the double standard here? Do you think the congressmen endorse the nazis in the US, so they should endorse nazis in the Hungarian parliament too? Hmmm … I see your point.
    “US is in no position to teach Hungary lessons about racism knowing it’s long history of racial segregation which continues even nowadays”
    I don’t even comment on this … it’s a joke. The Magyar Nemzet writes like this for the average peace marcher bumpkin. The US has gone a long way to erase racial segregation. We are about to re-elect a black man in case you haven’t noticed.
    Th US representatives will voice their opinion whether you like it or not. Just like the US ambassador to Hungary was marching with the Hungarian gays and lesbians yesterday on the Budapest pride. Where were the Hungarian politicians?

    The Hungarian government is not praising any Nazis and you can’t find any Nazi content in the Hungarian curriculum. And what about the antisemitism of the Hungarian left? Should I remind you about the Zuschlag affair? Or what about the manipulative assertion by an Mszp representative who said that the government is using Mengele and Auschwitz methods? The Hungarian Jewish community condemned this rhetoric. The antisemitic label is misused bu the left trying to gain political gain. Why the US government is not concerned or raises his voice against the attacks targeting Jews in France or Belgium? It’s quite clear that behind this there is an other reason. Why Hungary if there is greater antisemitism in France, Belgium or even USA?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR6dBw3ZZAw

    View Comment
  47. Oh, Erik the Misreader

    Nyiro was a nazi. Laszlo Kover praised him, Szocs, praised him, and many more in the parliament. Of course if you think that Nyiro wasn’t a nazi …

    I never wrote there is Nazi content in the curriculum. I wrote nazis are in the curriculum, like Nyiro.

    The anti-semitism on the left is very said too. But it doesn’t excuse the actions of the FIDESZ government.

    Regarding France and Belgium. Let me write it slowly for ya: g o v e r n m e n t. We have a problem with the Hungarian government. Perhaps this is the reason the congressman wrote to Orban.

    View Comment
  48. Mutt Damon :
    Oh, Erik the Misreader
    Nyiro was a nazi. Laszlo Kover praised him, Szocs, praised him, and many more in the parliament. Of course if you think that Nyiro wasn’t a nazi …
    I never wrote there is Nazi content in the curriculum. I wrote nazis are in the curriculum, like Nyiro.
    The anti-semitism on the left is very said too. But it doesn’t excuse the actions of the FIDESZ government.
    Regarding France and Belgium. Let me write it slowly for ya: g o v e r n m e n t. We have a problem with the Hungarian government. Perhaps this is the reason the congressman wrote to Orban.

    You distort what they have said.
    They never praised Nyírő the political man and his fascist political mischoices.
    Maybe you have problem with the Hungarian government because is not a lackey in support of foreign interests at the expense of the Hungarian benefit. I think that’s the problem for US too.

    View Comment
  49. Győr Calling!

    ”……Maybe you have problem with the Hungarian government because is not a lackey in support of foreign interests at the expense of the Hungarian benefit. I think that’s the problem for US too………” (Erik)

    Cultural Learnings of Hungary for Make Benefit Glorious Thousand-year-old Victorious Nation of Hungarystan!

    Regards

    Charlie

    View Comment
  50. Mutt Damon :
    This is from CloudFlare. I included the link about Jewish Crime. They are saying it’s “bad taste”.
    *****
    CloudFlare received your abuse report dated July 9, 2012 regarding:
    kuruc.info
    Your abuse report was denied due to a lack of evidence. Unless you have a specific link to content that is inciting violence this is not in violation. It may be in poor taste, but it’s not calling for violence.
    CloudFlare does not censor content online, but we do comply with law enforcement agencies as appropriate.
    We value feedback from our community and will continue to work to make the service better for everyone.
    Please see this blog post: http://blog.cloudflare.com/58611873
    If you feel you have received this message in error, please resubmit the report in 7 days with more details.

    I received exactly the same response. Really sad.

    Yet their terms of use clearly states that Cloudfare Terms of use Section 11, Item 1. Prohibited Uses
    “upload, post, transmit, or otherwise make available any content that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortious, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another’s privacy, hateful, or racially, ethnically, or otherwise objectionable;”

    Apparently they’re terms of use are just for show.

    View Comment
  51. Erik the Reader:”They never praised Nyírő the political man and his fascist political mischoices.”

    I am confused. There were two Nyírős? I only knew of one until now. Orwell would be proud of this new word: mischoices…

    View Comment
  52. By the way, when is the Hungarian government starting a reburial process, statue building and street naming for Adolf Hitler, the painter? Or to Ferenc Szalasi and Matyas Rakosi, heroes of World War I?

    View Comment
  53. @Erik:

    You are too often making the typical logical fallacies that aren’t even allowed in kindergarden:

    He did the same yesterday – now why am I being punished ?

    That someone else is a fascist is no excuse for the Hungarian government’s fascist tendencies. I’ve written about fallacies before (Louis is also veryfond of them, trying to divert all the time …) – just look here:

    http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

    My favourite example:

    Hitler and Stalin and Pol Pot said that two and two is four – how can I believe them ?

    View Comment
  54. I know this is off topic but I’m looking at initiating my own weblog and was wondering what all is required to get setup? I’m assuming having a blog like yours
    would be expensive? I’m not very internet smart so I’m not 100% sure. Any recommendations or advice would be tremendously valued. Thanks

    View Comment

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