A Hungarian neo-Nazi’s threat to democratically minded Hungarians abroad

A couple of days ago Christopher Adam, editor-in-chief of Kanadai Magyar Hírlap, received a letter signed by Gábor Barcsa-Turner. Barcsa-Turner is deputy chairman of Hatvannégy Vármegye Ifjúsági Mozgalom (HVIM) or, in English, Youth Movement of Sixty-four Counties, an allusion to the number of counties in Hungary prior to 1920.

HVIM is closely allied with Jobbik. The chairman of the movement is György Gyula Zagyva, a Jobbik member of parliament. Another prominent leader of HVIM is László Toroczkai Tóth, who is a Jobbik member of the Council of Csongrád County.

As for Barcsa-Turner, he is the editor of the extremist Szent Korona Rádió that is, despite its name, not a radio station but an Internet website.

What follows is Barcsa-Turner’s letter and the answer written by the founders and spokesmen for the Canadian Hungarian Democratic Charter. At the end of this post are some notes that might be helpful in understanding Barcsa-Turner’s references.

 * * *

Gábor Barcsa-Turner, fascist, Hungarist, Nazi, take your pick

Never come back here!  You are right: the neo-Nazis and fascists will hang you here for your disgusting articles. Here we are the masters, here we rampage and hate.  We are racists and behave as anti-Semites, we hate everybody, but most of all, we hate you!

 Please tell your comrades still in Hungary that life became unlivable because of the burgeoning nazism and invite Péter Dániel and Gyurcsány and all the other lice to leave the country.

 Forget our language; after all, only fascists and “deep-Magyars” speak it!

 Don’t use the adjective “Hungarian,” because that is the synonym of  Hungarist, Arrow Cross, ultra-right riff-raff who are busily building the Fourth Reich. Don’t call yourselves Hungarians  because everybody will think you are fascists.

 You can be Canadians, Americans, and Europeans, whatever you want, but nothing should cross your lips connected to Hungarians.

And Barcsa-Turner’s followers

And yes: I am an anti-Semite, if you call antisemitism telling the truth. I am a fascist if you criticize my law and order stance. I am a Nazi  because I don’t share the official dogma about the Second World War. I am a Hungarist when you besmirch Hungary’s heroic stand in the Second World War. I yearn for the White Terror every time that you praise Endre Ságvári! My ideal becomes Gyula Ostenburg-Morawek and his detachment,  and I  would be glad to be the murderer of Somogyi and Bacsó, a pair of scribblers!

 I am a racist when you defend the Gypsies and turn your eyes away from the terrorized weak and elderly. I am always the one whom you vilify: an anti-Semite, a racist, a fascist,  Hungarist, a member of a detachment and I could go on. I belong to the extreme right without any tolerance toward the left.

I’m the one you have to deal with. And believe me, there are a lot of us here. Don’t ever come back! Stay abroad  and die homeless, or while extolling the state of Israel, but let no more words about anything Hungarian pass your lips.

 Gábor T. Barcsa

* * * 

On August 13, 2012, Gábor Barcsa-Turner, vice-president of one of Hungary’s officially registered neo-fascist political organizations, the Youth Movement of Sixty-four Counties (HVIM), sent a letter to those Canadian Hungarians who are active in the defense of internationally recognized human rights and democratic principles. (HVIM’s president, György Gyula Zagyva is a Hungarian Member of Parliament. HVIM is in a close strategic alliance with Hungary’s largest far-right party, Jobbik).

Mr. Barcsa-Turner announced himself with the following words. “I am the one you need to deal with” and then, paradoxically, he immediately warns us not to set foot in Hungary, unless we wish to face him with murder weapons drawn, ready to counter our words: “Never come back here! Here … the neo-Nazis and fascists are going to hang you for your disgusting articles. Here we are the masters …. Stay out there and die homeless, or while extolling Israel but let no more words about anything Hungarian pass your lips! … Be Canadians, Americans, Europeans, whatever you want, but mouth nothing about Hungarianness!”

The purpose of the efforts of the Canadian Hungarian Democratic Charter in defense of human rights and democracy is not to exchange words with the likes of Mr. Barcsa-Turner. Our target is the current prime minister of Hungary, Viktor Orban, and his Fidesz Party. It is thanks to Fidesz and the current government  that neo-fascism in Hungary is growing and asserting itself ever more violently. It is common knowledge that Jobbik was fledged in Fidesz’s warm nest and that Jobbik then drew HVIM, the Outlaw Band, the Hungarian Guards and the other neo-fascist groups into its alliance. These are all now proliferating undisturbed under the protective wings of the Hungarian government, fouling the air for all decent Hungarians. It was as a cherished lark from Fidesz’s inner circle that the erstwhile Orbán disciple, Gábor Vona, flew aloft in Hungarian public life to become the leader of Jobbik. Nor is it with Mr. Vona’s anti-democratic spirit or his hate-mongering rhetoric that Fidesz now has a problem, but rather with the fact that he has drawn off several hundred thousand formerly faithful voters from Fidesz.

The primary target of the efforts of the Canadian Hungarian Democratic Charter in defense of human rights and democracy is accordingly not HVIM’s Gábor Barcsa-Turner but the government of Viktor Orban, whose socially irresponsible leaders are steering Hungary out of Europe toward fanaticism, oppressive state control, and tyranny.

Signed: The founders and spokesmen of the Canadian Hungarian Democratic Charter.

Notes

Péter Dániel is an anti-fascist activist who poured red pain over a newly unveiled statue of Regent Miklós Horthy.

Deep magyars is used to describe nationalist Hungarians.

Hungarism is the Hungarian version of Nazism and the ideology of Ferenc Szálasi’s Arrow Cross Party.

Endre Ságvári, a member of the illegal Communist Party, who was killed during an exchange of gunfire with the police on July 27, 1944, during the German occupation.

Gyula Ostenburg-Morawek, leader of one of the detachments of Miklós Horthy. It was members of his group who murdered Béla Somogyi and Béla Bacsó on February 17, 1920.  The victims were editors of Népszava, the official newspaper of the Hungarian Social Democratic Party.

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Member
August 17, 2012 6:47 pm

Well, he seems to be a good candidate for the “love and tolerance” guys from the comments of the “The Sixth Coffin” post … Good luck boys.

Member
August 17, 2012 7:15 pm

Based on his letter, Barcsa-Turner should be charged with for uttering Death and uttering bodily harm. It is one thing to hate the Jews and gypsies and talk about it, but uttering death I believe even in Hungary is a criminal offense.

99Spots
Guest
99Spots
August 17, 2012 8:45 pm

1920 again. Let us recognize it.

Bartos Laszlo and Karl Pfeifer warned us that the right meant genocide.

The EU must intervene in Hungary. The Vatican must stay away from Hungary.

P.W. Urbanyi
Guest
P.W. Urbanyi
August 17, 2012 11:29 pm
Recently there has been an increase in violent rhetoric on Politics.hu. Although the dialogue there tends to be rather poor, it should be noted that some commentators known for their support for the Hungarist movement have been making anonymous threats. Included in those threats are a reference to White Terror II coming to Hungary soon. Perhaps it is a coincidence that Gábor Barcsa makes this reference or perhaps it is a part of their current dialogue. Others have called for a rise to arms. Recall the Magyor of Gyöngyöspata’s conversation about a coming civil war. At the same time the Athena Institute, which tracks extremist groups in Hungary, has been increasingly releasing bulletins regarding activity by Hungarian hate groups. Many of these bulletins are regarding paramilitary training. On YouTube you can find videos of Hungarist’s groups undergoing live ammunition training with assault weapons. http://www.athenainstitute.eu/en/hate_groups/ The Institute has a FB page that regularly posts bulletins in both Hungarian and English. https://www.facebook.com/AthenaIntezet I recently sent the Athena Institute a note asking them why they did not list HVIM on their list of known hate groups. They have been involved in several anti-Roma and anti-gay demonstrations and now Gábor Barcsa sends this threatening… Read more »
Cherry17
Guest
Cherry17
August 18, 2012 3:51 am

I don’t think there are any members of the EU where such hatred speech would go unpunished. Instead of continuosly reorganizing the police forces Pintér and his secret service had better focus on these really dangerous elements. It is a time bomb ticking.
It is horrible to have to live in a country like this.

LwiiH
Guest
LwiiH
August 18, 2012 4:11 am

Some1 :
Based on his letter, Barcsa-Turner should be charged with for uttering Death and uttering bodily harm. It is one thing to hate the Jews and gypsies and talk about it, but uttering death I believe even in Hungary is a criminal offense.

This is a death threat and if this isn’t dealt with as a criminal matter….. Someone has to start cracking down. This guy maybe an idiot but he appears to be a dangerous one.

OOOSpots
Guest
OOOSpots
August 18, 2012 7:26 am

Is the Hungarian Spectrum is last forum of solid moral voice before the next Mohacs-Trianon?
The Yugoslavia of Milosevic is approaching Hungary.
The Trianon 2012 will mean the end of Hungary.
There will be no more division possible.
The mutual destruction will be furiously fast.
Small chunks of destroyed areas will be allocated to the neighbors.
And the majority of Hungarians are still silent.

Guest
August 18, 2012 7:31 am

As a regular reader of pol.hu I have seen enough veiled threats and commented on them – but this is really ugly!

When I saw it posted on pol.hu I thought it was maybe some prank/bad joke – but since it (and the guy who wrote it) seem to be real I don’t know what to say.

Just wait until this appears in the international media …

Guest
August 18, 2012 7:32 am
London Calling! What is so serious about this episode is the brazen nature of the threats by this extreme group. The psychological willingness – and comfort – of the people uttering these threats – being so brazenly open with no fear of prosecution or disapproval, shows how the climate is deteriorating in Hungary. Orban has already shown signs of cognitive dissonance with regard to Internet Anti-Semitism – and some psychologists believe that acceptance of evil be-gets more evil. In essence: the worse it gets, the worse it gets. The extreme rhetoric is so embedded and tolerated in Hungarian society that it will take years to turn around. Only politics and education inter alia can do it – and it will take years to ‘grow through’ society. We debated it a while ago here on Eva’s blog – where some were too busy analysing ‘anti-Semitism without the Jews’ (!) – and others were worried about where this was leading. Some of us knew. This can only be sorted by Hungarian society – with politics, education, religion and the law. Whilst this is clearly a breach of Democratic Principles (take note the EU) and of Democracy (take note the US) – don’t… Read more »
petofi
Guest
petofi
August 18, 2012 7:57 am

LwiiH :

Some1 :
Based on his letter, Barcsa-Turner should be charged with for uttering Death and uttering bodily harm. It is one thing to hate the Jews and gypsies and talk about it, but uttering death I believe even in Hungary is a criminal offense.

This is a death threat and if this isn’t dealt with as a criminal matter….. Someone has to start cracking down. This guy maybe an idiot but he appears to be a dangerous one.

Those demonstrators at the door of Chatary’s apartment have been continuously threatened. Has the government done
anything about THAT?

Incitement to violence has become the norm in Hungary today.

And, left to fester, incitement eventually leads to full-blown
violence.

petofi
Guest
petofi
August 18, 2012 8:41 am

It’s time to consider that Hungary has become a ‘hot-house’ experiment for the deconstruction of legitimate government, and it’s overtake.

Take a guess at who’s running the ‘experiment’…

Member
August 18, 2012 8:45 am

…”Israel’s national football team were warned of a “severe threat” to their safety in Budapest where they played a friendly match against Hungary on Wednesday, Israel’s coach said.
After returning to Tel Aviv on Thursday, coach Eli Guttman said the Israeli delegation had been warned by security officials that they were at risk in Budapest.
…….
Guttman gave no give further details. Hungarian police said the Israeli team, which had their own security detail, had not been under threat but did not elaborate.

“Our bus was sent out of the stadium after the match with a police escort and sirens sounding so that people would think it was us. We were asked to stay behind and we left later in a bus with the blinds drawn,” Guttman said.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/israel-team-under-severe-threat-hungary-coach-202850483–sow.html

Member
August 18, 2012 9:08 am

BARCSA-TURNER POSTING COULD STILL TURN OUT TO BE A HOAX

I just want to get it on record that the message sounds so stereotyped “We are neo-fascists… we hate everybody” that it could still turn out to have been a hoax (unless this Barcsa-Gabor entity is either mentally disturbed or truly tone-deaf to self-caricature).

Member
August 18, 2012 9:33 am

Stevan Harnad :
BARCSA-TURNER POSTING COULD STILL TURN OUT TO BE A HOAX
I just want to get it on record that the message sounds so stereotyped “We are neo-fascists… we hate everybody” that it could still turn out to have been a hoax (unless this Barcsa-Gabor entity is either mentally disturbed or truly tone-deaf to self-caricature).

I am not sure what it supposed to be “turn out to be a hoax”. Which part would be a hoax?
What do anyone mean suggesting it is a hoax? It was not Barcsa-Turner who wrote it?
Who cares who wrote it. In reality, not Barcsa-Turner is the problem “Rose is a rose is a rose is a rose.” Barcsa-Turner only one name for the problem. I do not think that it is a liberal who made a big joke by writing this letter. I do not think it was Jew or a gypsy. Of course I can see how maybe the extremists will use this as they were being framed, just as they use the Laszlo Csatary as a poster buy for the poor, innocent, old man the Jews try to frame for crimes he did not commit.

Guest
August 18, 2012 9:36 am

London Calling!

…..so “………either mentally disturbed or truly tone-deaf to self-caricature” then.

Regards

Charlie

Member
August 18, 2012 10:20 am

Eva S. Balogh :

Stevan Harnad :
BARCSA-TURNER POSTING COULD STILL TURN OUT TO BE A HOAX
I just want to get it on record that the message sounds so stereotyped “We are neo-fascists… we hate everybody” that it could still turn out to have been a hoax (unless this Barcsa-Gabor entity is either mentally disturbed or truly tone-deaf to self-caricature).

According to ATV Barcsa-Turner confirmed the authenticity of the letter.

According to these turul troopers he even responded to it:

http://hunhir.info/?pid=hirek&id=56619

He basically says it was a sarcasm.

Christopher Adam
Guest
August 18, 2012 10:51 am

These types of people are not representative of the country as a whole, but they are of the country’s current government, whose officials outsource the most odious forms of hate to their allies on the far right. And those who are targeted can do absolutely nothing about it.

Member
August 18, 2012 11:06 am

Orban is using these guys for two things. One is doing the ideological wet work, to incite fear. Their other purpose is to get brownie points later when he cracks down on the “nazis”. Don’t expect any effective crackdowns – it will only be for show – but some of these guy’s ass will be kicked.

Now that Orban let the dogs out without a leash I wonder if he’ll ever be able to collect them. They may even go for his throat if he’s not careful. If there will ever be an assassination attempt on Orban that will come from the extra right.

petofi
Guest
petofi
August 18, 2012 11:30 am

Mutt Damon :
Orban is using these guys for two things. One is doing the ideological wet work, to incite fear. Their other purpose is to get brownie points later when he cracks down on the “nazis”. Don’t expect any effective crackdowns – it will only be for show – but some of these guy’s ass will be kicked.
Now that Orban let the dogs out without a leash I wonder if he’ll ever be able to collect them. They may even go for his throat if he’s not careful. If there will ever be an assassination attempt on Orban that will come from the extra right.

Shades of yesteryear. Weren’t the Brownshirts (SA) eventually
disemboweled by Hitler’s orders? Of course, they were superseded by the SS.

Take note…

Louis Kovach
Guest
August 18, 2012 12:21 pm

Regardless of who or whom wrote the threatening letter, it is unacceptable behavior.

However, the continuous derogatory writings from the left are not helping the situation. There is no good English translation for “addig festi a falra amig megjelenik” (you paint the devil on the wall and it will show up)…the letter is a good example of that.

gdfxx
Guest
gdfxx
August 18, 2012 12:43 pm

Louis Kovach :
However, the continuous derogatory writings from the left are not helping the situation. There is no good English translation for “addig festi a falra amig megjelenik” (you paint the devil on the wall and it will show up)…the letter is a good example of that.

He is implying that these Nazis are a result of the condemnation of those who are not Nazis. Give me a break!

Member
August 18, 2012 1:41 pm

Louis Kovach :
Regardless of who or whom wrote the threatening letter, it is unacceptable behavior.
However, the continuous derogatory writings from the left are not helping the situation. There is no good English translation for “addig festi a falra amig megjelenik” (you paint the devil on the wall and it will show up)…the letter is a good example of that.

Regardless of who or whom this seraphograph might be, his logic and ethics do seem on a solid par with his syntax…

Guest
August 18, 2012 2:03 pm

London Calling!

Eva – why did you change the picture?

The original one appeared to be of someone who wouldn’t have said ‘boo to a goose’ – a benign professional even! And I mused on how deceptive looks can be.

On the other hand the substituted one could well be a Jobbik thug!

Regards

Charlie

P.W. Urbanyi
Guest
P.W. Urbanyi
August 18, 2012 2:33 pm

You can find more of his “prose” and some insight into his mindset here:

Egy harcos gondolatai (megjelent a Magyar Jelen újság 2011. évi számaiban) Írta: Barcsa T. Gábor (HVIM, alelnök)

http://www.hvim.hu/gondolatok

Member
August 18, 2012 4:05 pm

Louis Kovach :
the continuous derogatory writings from the left are not helping the situation. There is no good English translation for “addig festi a falra amig megjelenik” (you paint the devil on the wall and it will show up)…the letter is a good example of that.

Would you be kind enough to specify who against “the continuous derogatory writings” addressed at, that the neo-nazis feel must defend?
Can you quote us some of those derogatory writing from the left, please. I am just not clear what do you mean by this, so it would be very helpful.
Also, I see that the letter very much threatens the Jews and the gypsies, do you consider all Jews and gypsies to be member of the left or do you consider everyone on the left to be either gypsies, Jews or people who wants to sell out the country for some unspecified interest?
Thanks.

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