Another St. Stephen’s Day in Hungary

It was twelve years ago, about this time of year, that the St. Stephen mania was at its height during the first Orbán government. Because of the celebrations of the millennium of Stephen’s coronation and thus the historically accepted date of the establishment of the Hungarian state Viktor Orbán had a fantastic opportunity for self-aggrandizement. On August 19, 2000, the prime minister visited the neighboring villages, Alcsútdoboz and Felcsút, where he grew up. It was here that he awaited the arrival of Hungarian pilgrims returning from Rome on foot. The pilgrims had taken a replica of the Holy Crown to the Vatican where the pope blessed it. When the pilgrims arrived with the fake crown with its papal blessing, the prime minister delivered a speech in which he recalled that St. Stephen offered his country to the Virgin Mary in the very place where he was standing: in Alcsútdoboz.

There are a couple of problems with Orbán’s claim. The first is that the earliest reference to Alcsútdoboz is from the fourteenth century. The second problem, and the more serious one, is that St. Stephen most likely never offered his country to the Virgin Mary. The first mention of this alleged offering was at the end of the eleventh century when Pope Gregory VII made all sorts of fiscal demands on the Hungarian kings who cleverly replied that unfortunately the country was already ruled by none other than the Virgin Mary herself.

At the beginning of his political career Orbán was known to profess no faith. Later the public learned that he was a devout Calvinist. People suspected that his sudden interest in Calvinism had something to do with his need to have the political assistance of István Csurka’s MIÉP.  The Hungarian Reformed Church happened to have good relations with that party. But if he was a good Calvinist, how could he take the Regnum Marianum cult seriously? After all, Calvinists don’t consider the Virgin Mary an important part of their religious beliefs. On the contrary, they reject anything that has to do with saints and post-biblical miracles.

St. Stephen’s portrait in the Képes Krónika / Chronicon Pictum, prior to 1360

This story from twelve years ago shows how far politicians are willing to go to use history and religion to their own political advantage. By now Viktor Orbán is being compared to St. Stephen himself . Lajos Kósa, deputy chairman of Fidesz and mayor of Debrecen, in his speech emphasized that Stephen used “unusual methods to convert his country from a pagan tribal society to a Christian state,” just as Viktor Orbán decided to use “unorthodox methods” to change Hungary. János Áder, the president, talked about a new foundation of Hungary, just as in Stephen’s time. János Lázár emphasized that the whole country must change radically, just as in Stephen’s time.

The saintly king’s methods were “unusual” in one sense: he was ruthless. He forcibly converted the people to Christianity and used every possible method to make sure that they followed the strictures of the new religion. He was equally ruthless with his relatives who threatened his position. One was drawn and quartered; his remains were displayed on the gates of four different cities. Another was blinded and his ears filled with hot lead.  Let’s hope that the Matolcsy-Orbán duo’s “unorthodox methods” will be less draconian.

Then came Péter Harrach (KDNP). From him we learned that Stephen was a man who wanted to introduce order but not dictatorship. Dictatorship in the early eleventh century?  The word didn’t even exist until the mid-sixteenth century. I guess this reference to Stephen’s desire for order but not dictatorship has something to do with the charge leveled against Orbán, that he’s a man of dictatorial tendencies. Another modern concept Harrach attributed to Stephen’s days is ” unity.” Stephen certainly managed to break down the power of other chieftains and expanded his own rule over their lands, but I’m afraid Harrach wasn’t talking about geographical unity but rather national unity which is of course a historical anomaly when we are talking about the eleventh century. According to Gyula Kristó, the foremost historian of the period, most likely the majority of the population of the Carpathian Basin was Slavic speaking and the Hungarians at that time were still in the minority. Stephen most likely didn’t give a hoot who spoke what language. The only thing that was important for him was that they were his faithful subjects.

Harrach, a Christian Democrat, could not leave out the usual idealized description of Stephen as a deeply religious and pious man. According to him, the key to his personality is his “Exhortations” to his son. The problem is that most medieval kings were illiterate; according to Kristó, that probably was the case with Stephen as well. The “Exhortations” were most likely written by Bishop Asrik-Anastas, the man who brought a crown (not the Holy Crown of today) to Stephen from Rome. It is therefore doubtful that this document is the key to Stephen’s personality.

Perhaps the most confusing speech was delivered by János Áder. According to the president, the old world is in crisis and “those nations will be successful in the twenty-first century that can lift their souls. We carry the knowledge in our blood that if the soul is rising, everything rises with it.” I’m not even going to try to figure out what he wanted to say. Perhaps the most intriguing part of these sentences was that “knowledge is in our blood.” I thought that knowledge had to be acquired, usually through hard work, but I guess the Hungarians are different. In their case, at least this particular piece of knowledge is in their blood.

By way of a footnote: the only reference I found to “Knowledge in the Blood” was a book by the first black dean of education at the University of Pretoria. The subtitle of the book was: “Confronting Race and the Apartheid Past.”

62 comments

  1. In this context it is probably off-topic, but nevertheless interesting. In the case of a national emergency, the ancient Roman Senate appointed a special magistrate called “dictator”. However, in contrast to modern-day dictators, he gained the higher honour the more quickly he did his job and resigned his extraordinary powers so that normal political processes could resume as soon as possible.

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  2. Szent István’s day here is really Virágkarneválnap – THE big day in Debrecen’s calendar, when half a million or more people visit to see the carnival and enjoy the events leading up to it.

    Only this year, a good number of those half a million must have gone home rather disappointed. For the last few years the carnival has been getting less impressive and the preliminary festivities less interesting, but this year it hit a new low.

    There was nothing at all worth going to see for the whole week leading up the 20th (usually there’s at least two or three home-grown acts/bands worth watching and at least one of those English or American bands you thought had disappeared but are apparently still ‘big’ in Europe), and the things laid on for the kids were very few and disappointing this year too.

    But worst of all was the carnival itself. Usually there’s a dozen or so floats that really look like some effort and imagination has gone into them, and four or five that really are worth seeing – put together with great imagination and amazing attention to detail. The crowd look forward to seeing them and are rarely disappointed.

    But this year – nothing. Half the usual number of floats for a start, then only four or five that warranted any sort of attention, and only one that really looked good – and even that was a poor second to previous efforts (it was based on the Madagascar CGI cartoon characters, but none of them really looked right).

    All in all, a terrible disappointment. My 7 year old daughter, who waits all summer for the Big Day, summed it up by saying what a waste of time it was.

    But why has this once great occasion deteriorated so much, and why such a terrible decline this year? Could it just be coincidence – all the talented people just happen to have retired at the same time? Could it be the accumulative effect of the recession? Has State or local funding been withdrawn? Have corporate sponsors pulled out?

    Personally, this being Kósaváros, the Fidesz-Jobbik capital, I’d like to think that somehow Orbán is to blame. But I can’t quite see how…

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  3. “..that state and local funding has been withdrawn..”

    If that’s the case in Debrecen–a Fidesz hotbed–than what about poor Ujlipotvaros (District XIII) in Budapest? The local district channel (# 13) was showing folk dancing on an outdoor stage. While the three girls sported native costumes none of the boys
    had boots. The boot-slapping was, of course, non existent. It all looked quite funny. And sad…

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  4. *****DESERVING OF FURTHER SCRUTINY****

    CSATARY’S 30 DAY HOUSE ARREST IS AT AN END AND THE GOVERNMENT WILL
    NOT BE RENEWING IT.

    DOES THIS NOT DESERVE SOME EXPLANATION BY THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE?

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  5. petofi :
    *****DESERVING OF FURTHER SCRUTINY****
    CSATARY’S 30 DAY HOUSE ARREST IS AT AN END AND THE GOVERNMENT WILL
    NOT BE RENEWING IT.
    DOES THIS NOT DESERVE SOME EXPLANATION BY THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE?

    “That’s one small step for Jobbik; one giant balk for Hungary”.

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  6. The most ridiculus custom is probably the procession of the Holy Right Hand. Knowing how lucky we are with our history I will not be surprised when turns out that St Steve was left handed. Oh well, it’s better the Holy Prepuce …

    The point in this continuos chanting of our past greatness is hypnotizing the half asiatic hordes that they don’t have to do anything to be great. You are great already. So don’t try to be hard working, smart and tolerant. You are great as you are. Amen!

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  7. A bit OT:

    We showed the family around Sopron – it was very quiet on the “Holy Day” …

    At least it was very warm and in Sárvár we then saw a lot of costumes – it was International Folklore Weekend.

    Seems that most people went to the Balaton – I don’t think that many Hungarians take this St Valaki business for something really serious …

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  8. Lifting the soul is very important. While Ader is giving this good piece of advice to those still believing in St. Viktor Orbán, V.O. and his ilk put their fingers in the till.

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  9. Stadium fascist fiasco rejoined:

    The video is telling: most of those turning their backs, laughing, carrying-on, yelling out, were either in their 20s or 30s. What personal experience could have led them to be anti-semitic?
    Answer: none. They are all the subject of Hungarian brain-washing by the culture, the media,
    and the government’s tacit approval of fascists doings such as the resurrection of Horthy, Wass, Nyiro et. al.

    What a sad comment on Hungarian youth’s inability to think for themselves!

    Hungary is fashioning a mindless multitude not unlike the Hitler saluting youth of Germany
    circa 1930’s. But someone ought to feed these hapless many a little History…

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  10. 1. “Dictatorship in the early eleventh century? The word didn’t even exist until the mid-sixteenth century”

    Livius: Ab Urbe Condita, III. 21
    dictatore opus esse rei publicae, ut, qui se mouerit ad sollicitandum statum ciuitatis, sentiat sine prouocatione DICTATURAM esse.
    http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/livy/liv.3.shtml#21

    2. “The saintly king’s methods were “unusual” in one sense: he was ruthless” I doubt that his methods were different from the European standards of that time… His was totally EU compatible…

    3. “According to Gyula Kristó, the foremost historian of the period, most likely the majority of the population of the Carpathian Basin was Slavic speaking and the Hungarians at that time were still in the minority. ” It is true, that it is his opinion. The rest of the historians opposed this view. It is a bit exaggeration to say that Mr. Kristó is the foresmost Hungarian medievalist. He was simply seen as a fairy tale writer by the other historians, like József Gerics, Iván Bertényi, György Győrffy, Ferenc Glatz, Why don’t You cite their oppinion? Little help:

    http://www.3szek.ro/load/cikk/42526/a_magyarsag_lelekszama_a_korai_szazadokban

    It is unscientific to pick only one source to prove that Mr. Orbán has some grandiosity mania or what.

    4. Have something in the blood, there is something in the blood – typical Hungarian idiom/metaphor. It means that someone has an inborn talent/gift for doing something. Used everyday in Hungary. For an English speaker like You, it must be shocking. Like it is shocking for me the “freedom in someone’s heart” expression of the English. How can be freedom there, Hungarians have blood/veins in the heart.

    http://www.amazon.com/Freedom-In-My-Heart-National/dp/1426201273

    5. “St. Stephan was illiterate” – other historians (above mentioned) say that he could read and write. It is an open question. He could speak German and Latin (His wife was German, andd he could talk to priests, or at least say the text of the liturgy).

    6. “Bishop Asrik-Anastas, the man who brought a crown (not the Holy Crown of today) to Stephen from Rome.” – It is the oppinion of Mr. Kristó. Mr ASTRIK (and not Asrik) brought nothing from Rome, it is a legend. It is proved by many historians, like József Gerics, Péter Váczy, etc The expression used by the chronicle writers (and cited by Mr. Kristó as well) referred to that Stephen was crowned with the consent of the pope with a diadem.

    http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Szent_Korona

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  11. @ Rettego Ivan:

    You were doing well until this:

    “It is unscientific to pick only one source to prove that Mr. Orbán has some grandiosity mania or what.”

    That, suspiciously, sounds like a defense of the indefensible.
    Orban is a maniac: he picks his actions according to what
    gains him the greatest feedback–be it good or bad. Like
    an imbalanced child, he continually acts up. Hungary is going
    to the dogs because of it. Of course, it’s a mystery why a
    supposedly reasonable man like Martonyi would squander
    reputation among civilized peoples by following him and doing
    his bidding. My guess is MONEY. Lots of money–I would
    hazard a guess at millions of euros. (Let it not be said that
    a Hungarian cannot be bought.)

    But here’s the rub: is this Sodom and Gomorrah? Can not
    a Fidesz person of reputation, of the inner circle, stand up and
    cry “WOLF!” Is the nation totally bereft of decency?

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  12. Rettegő Iván :
    4. Have something in the blood, there is something in the blood – typical Hungarian idiom/metaphor. It means that someone has an inborn talent/gift for doing something. Used everyday in Hungary. For an English speaker like You, it must be shocking. Like it is shocking for me the “freedom in someone’s heart” expression of the English. How can be freedom there, Hungarians have blood/veins in the heart.

    Yeah, just like last night I was talking about riddles to some of my daughters friends and one said, we have a special Hungarian word for that one, it’s an “anagram”!

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  13. LwiiH :

    Rettegő Iván :
    4. Have something in the blood, there is something in the blood – typical Hungarian idiom/metaphor. It means that someone has an inborn talent/gift for doing something. Used everyday in Hungary. For an English speaker like You, it must be shocking. Like it is shocking for me the “freedom in someone’s heart” expression of the English. How can be freedom there, Hungarians have blood/veins in the heart.

    Yeah, just like last night I was talking about riddles to some of my daughters friends and one said, we have a special Hungarian word for that one, it’s an “anagram”!

    @Rettego I.

    “Hungarian have blood/veins…”

    ALERT! ALERT!! New discovery. That out-of-this-world
    of species called “a Hungarian” has been found to have
    something else in their heart….massive amounts of self-delusion
    complicated by hemerrhoidal stupidity…

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  14. Most interesting event that happened in our area (near Cegled!) on Aug 20th was seeing a group of Hare krishna followers chanting in the main street. I love it!

    Other than that, we simply couldn’t be bothered to go to the main square for the fire works at night as well as not watching the tv broadcast.

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  15. Rettegő Iván: “For an English speaker like You, it must be shocking.” Really flattering. My first language is Hungarian, yet I maintain that “knowledge cannot be in the blood.” One could inherit his mother’s or father’s hot temper and people around this person can say “it is not surprising that he flies off the handle because it is in his blood” but one cannot use the same expression when talking about knowledge. I may add that the expression you claim to be specifically Hungarian exists in English as well and I bet in many other languages.

    All this effort to explain away Áder’s incomprehensible gibberish. Why? Do you feel compelled to defend everything stupid politicians say on national holidays?

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  16. “Rettegő Iván” is Kovach. Many experts say it … :-)

    Same impertinence. Same “google expertise”. Same “others did it too” kindergarten reasoning.

    You are not a Phd for a reason. Suck it up.

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  17. Mutt Damon :
    “Rettegő Iván” is Kovach. Many experts say it …
    Same impertinence. Same “google expertise”. Same “others did it too” kindergarten reasoning.
    You are not a Phd for a reason. Suck it up.

    I think you’re right: same kind of mental gaps…

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  18. No I do not Retteg even from the aces of this gang. As a matter of fact, I waited until today to comment on this penis envy like commentary. Those who do not have a history are frantically trying to make (supposedly) their home countries history into a laughing stock.

    Every nations (It is nations not countries) has mythology in its “accepted” history. But just as parting seas, or having Camelots or
    Hun origin Niebeungang sagas, or heroizing Vercingetorix does not call for similar sarcastic commentary on a nations heros or history, you can lay off the Hungarian history also.

    Rettego is right in most of his comments, but it looks like that he still expects “balanced” postings here and not cherry picked sources based Stuhrmer or Krokodil level “journalism.

    But to be educational, I advise the gang to peruse the “census” of Domos from 1138 to check for all thos Slavic names they are citing as being the majority of the population.

    http:/www.ehumana.hu/arpad/szoveg/to07.htm

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  19. I am trying to believe that the Opposition of Éva Balogh consist of decent and knowledgeable people.

    They may be very westernized, and well educated, too.

    The question is, why they are creating Öngól after Öngól?

    Horthy, Orban, Szalasi, Kun, Rakosi are indenfensible.

    Öngól kings project a different view.

    Orban is acceptable, by now not completely sane, but still worthy of the office.

    The George Bush syndrome. He was terrible, although in the final period of his presidency he started to make some sense.

    PS Obama is similar, pretty inept, just with some occasional smart remarks.

    PPS The Economist Alert – https://www.google.com/search?q=hungary&btnGNS=Search+economist.com&as_sitesearch=economist.com&sa=X&ei=yvM0UPLNI7S30QGOnIAI&ved=0CJoEENsB&num=100&hl=en&newwindow=1&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=xys&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial

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  20. Let me see…..the classical communist modus operandi is to accuse those whom they designate as “enemies” of using the same tactic as they use…..then according to the salami method add to the opponents comments stuff they have never said and sharply attack the addition…..nothing new!

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  21. CSATARY’S 30 DAY HOUSE ARREST IS AT AN END AND THE GOVERNMENT WILL
    NOT BE RENEWING IT.
    DOES THIS NOT DESERVE SOME EXPLANATION BY THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE?

    “That’s one small step for Jobbik; one giant balk for Hungary”.

    lavic majority in the Carpathian Basin?

    It is not the gvmnt which prolongs the “house arrest” but the judges.
    BTW, it is renewed.

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  22. Louis Kovach :
    Let me see…..the classical communist modus operandi is to accuse those whom they designate as “enemies” of using the same tactic as they use…..then according to the salami method add to the opponents comments stuff they have never said and sharply attack the addition…..nothing new!

    My dear Louis J. Kovach….I’ve researched your website…Nucon International…Ahh, hate to say this but it is somewhat suspect. YOU are the only officer? You don’t list other executives or yearly sales and the like. Kinda mediocre website, too, Louis. Tsk, tsp.

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  23. Rettegő Iván :
    CSATARY’S 30 DAY HOUSE ARREST IS AT AN END AND THE GOVERNMENT WILL
    NOT BE RENEWING IT.
    DOES THIS NOT DESERVE SOME EXPLANATION BY THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE?
    “That’s one small step for Jobbik; one giant balk for Hungary”.
    lavic majority in the Carpathian Basin?
    It is not the gvmnt which prolongs the “house arrest” but the judges.
    BTW, it is renewed.

    The judges, now, after all the older ones were “retired”, mostly named by Orban and his clique…

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  24. Rettegő Iván :
    CSATARY’S 30 DAY HOUSE ARREST IS AT AN END AND THE GOVERNMENT WILL
    NOT BE RENEWING IT.
    DOES THIS NOT DESERVE SOME EXPLANATION BY THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE?
    “That’s one small step for Jobbik; one giant balk for Hungary”.
    lavic majority in the Carpathian Basin?
    It is not the gvmnt which prolongs the “house arrest” but the judges.
    BTW, it is renewed.

    Radio reports said that the house arrest was discontinued. I’ve seen no print media on the subject. But really, Ivanhoe, you think the judges ‘independent’, do you? They all retteg
    at the sight and sound of the VIKTATOR!

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  25. Eva S. Balogh :
    Astrik versus Asrik. Rettegő Iván prefers György Györffy to Gyula Kristó. Györffy mentions Asrik several times as Anasztász-Asrik.

    The word “dictatura”?
    Crown from Rome?
    Slavic majority in the Carpathian Basin?
    Have something in the blood? (I don’t find it gibberish)
    Cruelty in the Middle Ages? One of the relatives of St. Stephen was drawn and quartered. Not bad, but it is more precise to say that Mr. Koppány was killed in a battle.
    The Chronicles cited by Mr. Kristo only say that, Mr. Koppány was killed.
    http://mek.oszk.hu/05000/05000/html/kristo013.html

    Blinding someone meant in the Middle Ages, that the blinded could not be king, since he lost his “idoneitas” (ability) to the crown. It is barbaric now- but at that time, it was merciful: the poor guy could have been killed and quartered.

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  26. petofi :

    Louis Kovach :
    Let me see…..the classical communist modus operandi is to accuse those whom they designate as “enemies” of using the same tactic as they use…..then according to the salami method add to the opponents comments stuff they have never said and sharply attack the addition…..nothing new!

    My dear Louis J. Kovach….I’ve researched your website…Nucon International…Ahh, hate to say this but it is somewhat suspect. YOU are the only officer? You don’t list other executives or yearly sales and the like. Kinda mediocre website, too, Louis. Tsk, tsp.

    I wish we would leave others’ personal business out of here when it is irrelevant.

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  27. petofi :

    Rettegő Iván :
    CSATARY’S 30 DAY HOUSE ARREST IS AT AN END AND THE GOVERNMENT WILL
    NOT BE RENEWING IT.
    DOES THIS NOT DESERVE SOME EXPLANATION BY THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE?
    “That’s one small step for Jobbik; one giant balk for Hungary”.
    lavic majority in the Carpathian Basin?
    It is not the gvmnt which prolongs the “house arrest” but the judges.
    BTW, it is renewed.

    Radio reports said that the house arrest was discontinued. I’ve seen no print media on the subject. But really, Ivanhoe, you think the judges ‘independent’, do you? They all retteg
    at the sight and sound of the VIKTATOR!

    http://inforadio.hu/hir/belfold/hir-514408

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  28. Ivan (the terrible, really)! You made your point. We see you have the same addiction as Kovach (what a coincidence) that is you keep comparing yourself to intelligent people. Let’s call it phdphobia. OK. We got it. Now please lay off your personal agenda against professor Balogh and for Pete’s sake comment something relevant or leave us alone.

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  29. http://inforadio.hu/hir/belfold/hir-514408

    Thank goodness that conscience and/or public pressure still works on some people in Hungary. I bow my head to those judges and politicians who go against Orban’s murky visions and choose to do what is right.
    (It is unfortunate that many who still stand sup for what is right in Orban’s Hungary and they are not [terrified] even from the aces of [Orban’s] gang. Right Louis?

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  30. Mutt Damon :
    Ivan (the terrible, really)! You made your point. We see you have the same addiction as Kovach (what a coincidence) that is you keep comparing yourself to intelligent people. Let’s call it phdphobia. OK. We got it. Now please lay off your personal agenda against professor Balogh and for Pete’s sake comment something relevant or leave us alone.

    Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow!

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  31. Mutt, I don’t think that’s the problem. Rather one simply cannot say that the Slavs were in majority in the Carpathian Basin during Stephen’s time. It couldn’t have possibly happened. God wouldn’t have allowed such a shameful situation.

    As for whether 400 or 500 people threatened the local Gypsies in Cegléd this is also a very important question. The best thing would be if we could shrink their number to 40 or 50 because then Kovach wouldn’t have to admit that the growth of the extreme right is a serious problem in Hungary.

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  32. PETROVICS: “My dear Louis J. Kovach….I’ve researched your website…Nucon International…Ahh, hate to say this but it is somewhat suspect. YOU are the only officer? You don’t list other executives or yearly sales and the like. Kinda mediocre website, too, Louis. Tsk, tsp”

    Great comment, I gave order to upgrade website. Look again by the end of the month.

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  33. Louis Kovach :
    (…) heroizing Vercingetorix does not call for similar sarcastic commentary (…)

    Sure it does, so does Joan of Arc. And the sarcastic commentaries are legitimate. There were several attempts in France by Mr Sarkozy (and his advisors, notably Mr Guaino) to revive the cult of these idolized historical images – they failed.

    These carefully constructed icons have been used and abused by all sides, troughout the development of european nation-states, in politics as well as in mass education. So far, so good, but we don’t need this kind of ‘cults of historical personality’ in the political debate anymore.

    Those who believe in saviors, in providential men, will probably disagree.

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  34. Some1: “Thank goodness that conscience and/or public pressure still works on some people in Hungary. I bow my head to those judges and politicians who go against Orban’s murky visions and choose to do what is right.
    (It is unfortunate that many who still stand sup for what is right in Orban’s Hungary and they are not [terrified] even from the aces of [Orban’s] gang. Right Louis?”

    Normal judicial step. You have a problem that your hopes of letting him go did not materialioze??? What amount of propaganda you miss this way.

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  35. the trolls won, the comments became personal attacks, there are no intelligent exchanges of idieas any more. how sad. yet i still like to read the blog. discussions and debates are wellcome, as long as they are civilized.

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  36. @Rettegő
    “4. Have something in the blood, there is something in the blood – typical Hungarian idiom/metaphor. It means that someone has an inborn talent/gift for doing something. Used everyday in Hungary.”

    -You may wish look up the proper expression next time prior to your statement, – I sincerely hope at least – in order to avoid looking stupid, as is now.
    Then again, you may not, who knows, who cares?

    Anyway, the Hungarian metaphor – what you intended to refer to – has absolutely nothing to do with knowledge – tudás – but rather with skill or/and ability, as in készség, ügyesség, etc.
    Knowledge is what you get by studying and such, ability you may born with, hence it may “be in your blood”.
    That’s why they say “it’s in his/her blood” rather than “something in the blood”, quite a difference, wouldn’t you say?

    You see, there are a few around here, who actually speaks Hungarian, so keep in mind next time you’ll come around lecturing.

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  37. enufff :
    Most interesting event that happened in our area (near Cegled!) on Aug 20th was seeing a group of Hare krishna followers chanting in the main street. I love it!
    Other than that, we simply couldn’t be bothered to go to the main square for the fire works at night as well as not watching the tv broadcast.

    The lyrics could do with some work, though…

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  38. Louis Kovach :
    Some1: “Thank goodness that conscience and/or public pressure still works on some people in Hungary. I bow my head to those judges and politicians who go against Orban’s murky visions and choose to do what is right.
    (It is unfortunate that many who still stand sup for what is right in Orban’s Hungary and they are not [terrified] even from the aces of [Orban’s] gang. Right Louis?”
    Normal judicial step. You have a problem that your hopes of letting him go did not materialioze??? What amount of propaganda you miss this way.

    You lost me. I hoped that he will be released? I can’t follow you sorry.
    Let me clarify, I hoped that he will end up in a stinking jail, that he will be dragged infront of a judge, that he will have to pay in some ways for all the pain he caused, all the death he was part of. Why would I want him to be released?
    It was sad to hear that many neo-nazis and you stood up for the rights of this “old, innocent man” who was sentenced to death for his crimes at some point. He was also sentenced in Hungary as it turned out. I know (as you also proudly announced) that on technicality some of the charges don’t stand up. Zippty do for technicality. Aren’t you happy Kovach?

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  39. Minusio :
    In the past, when some Orbán worshippers waxed overly enthusiastic, someone regularly reminded us: “Don’t feed the trolls!”

    That was me! And still no one listens, so you end up with 50+ posts on a thread, most of which are incomprehensible garbage.

    Trolls exist soley to wind us up and waste our time, they are simply static in the system, but let the static build up too much and the message no longer gets through. This is what they want.

    The only way to deal with them is to ignore them. If you really can’t do that, then just laugh at them (they are, after all, to a man, completely bonkers). But please don’t take them seriously, don’t answer their mad claims – in short, don’t feed them.

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  40. Some1: You lost me. I hoped that he will be released? I can’t follow you sorry.
    Let me clarify, I hoped that he will end up in a stinking jail, that he will be dragged infront of a judge, that he will have to pay in some ways for all the pain he caused, all the death he was part of. Why would I want him to be released?”

    Because then you could blast the Hungarian judiciary for reason. I have never defended Csatary. You must be mixing me up with someone else or you are a good example of the salami politics I have cited. I stood up for the law and against the so hoped for immediate lynching. As a matter of fact my recommendation was to hand him over to the Slovaks right away.

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  41. Petofi: “ALERT! ALERT!! New discovery. That out-of-this-world
    of species called “a Hungarian” has been found to have
    something else in their heart….massive amounts of self-delusion
    complicated by hemerrhoidal stupidity…”

    Does this sound familiar? “As long as in the heart within……”

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  42. Sorry, Rettego Ivan, but the quoted sentence “those nations will be successful in the twenty-first century that can lift their souls. We carry the knowledge in our blood that if the soul is rising, everything rises with it” does not make any sense at all. I even looked up the original,full text speech in Hungarian just to see if there is a way to make sense of it in the original context.

    Nope.

    Yes, in Hungarian we can say that something is in our blood, if that’s a skill or some special knowledge that we had practiced so much that we’ve mastered it perfectly. Like the example you bring up, accounting. But it has to be some specific skill or knowledge, not knowledge in general. To have knowledge in general in one’s blood would mean that Hungarians have God-like attributes, that they just know everything.

    I don’t think Ader used knowledge here in the general sense, though. I think he was referring to some special knowledge, the knowledge of the fact that “if the soul is rising, everything rises with it”….. I am sorry, but this is just some kind of vague grandiose gibberish. What exactly does he mean by “the soul rising”? How does this phenomenon of a “rising soul” of a nation manifest itself?

    Of course, you can argue that it is metaphorical, but it is very poorly done, confusing, vague and builds on cliches. This what teachers of literature in Hungary call “kepzavar”….I have no idea what the English term would be …. maybe just a bad, meaningless, confusing figure of speech?

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  43. Just occurred to me, maybe they were trying to translate “rising spirit” into Hungarian from English :-) as you can talk about the rising spirit of a nation in English…. but talking about “a lélek emelkedik” .. just sounds stupid in Hungarian. Spirit is more like “lélekerő” or “hangulat”, not “lélek” in this sense.

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  44. An :
    Just occurred to me, maybe they were trying to translate “rising spirit” into Hungarian from English as you can talk about the rising spirit of a nation in English…. but talking about “a lélek emelkedik” .. just sounds stupid in Hungarian. Spirit is more like “lélekerő” or “hangulat”, not “lélek” in this sense.

    The “lélek emelkedik” expression (lift up Your heart) is the translation of the “sursum corda” latin expression from catholic liturgy.

    Petőfi Sándor (poet)

    Emelje ez föl lelkeinket, Hogy mi vagyunk a lámpafény, Mely amidőn a többi alszik, Ég a sötétség éjjelén. Ha a mi fényünk nem lobogna. A véghetetlen éjen át etc.

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  45. @ Louis:

    “I stood up for the law and against the so hoped for immediate lynching. As a matter of fact my recommendation was to hand him over to the Slovaks right away.”

    ….”Immediate lynching..”? Since when in Hungarian history were ‘whites’ as opposed to jews and gypsies ever immediately murdered in Hungary? Louis, your mind is on some American western. Poor confused you. And, you talk about being ‘for Law’ in Orban’s Hungary!? Haven’t you heard from Viktor’s own lips that a judicial decision is not serious: they’ll just change the law if they don’t get their way.

    There’s is also something called ‘equality before the law’ in civilized society. Would you, Louis, say that the media commission recognized that they are bound by the decision of the courts? Have they given ClubRadio the frequency they were
    told to do by the courts?

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  46. @Rettego Ivan: Yes,I am aware of the phrase being used in catholic liturgy…meaning getting closer to God… So how the knowledge of “if our souls are rising, everything is rising” in the Hungarian nation’s blood?

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  47. Petrovics: When you are proven wrong you suddenly go in all directiona from the subject. None of your new items has anything to do with my answer that I have not protected Csatary as you claimed. OK, I play along with you lets give the Klubradio to Slovakia also.

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