“For you only death is the proper punishment.” Zsolt Bayer on Jews and liberals

Before I tackle today’s topic I would like to call everybody’s attention to Professor Kim Scheppele’s article on the Hungarian government’s attempt to silence the Hungarian Constitutional Court, which lately has found several pieces of legislation unconstitutional. The title of her piece is “Constitutional Revenge”; it appeared on Paul Krugman’s blog in The New York Times. You can read it at

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/01/guest-post-constitutional-revenge/

 * * *

I’m afraid I have to write again about the infamous Zsolt Bayer, a scribbler of extremist views. There are tabloid journalists like Bayer everywhere, but Zsolt Bayer is not a run-of-the-mill hack. He holds the #5 membership card of Fidesz. (László Kövér, president of the Hungarian parliament, holds the #1 card.) So, he was one of the original members of the tightly-knit group that eventually transformed their student association into a large and powerful party.

On February 27 Tamás Fellegi, former minister of economic development and minister without portfolio in charge of the nonexistent IMF negotiations, testified before the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Foreign Affairs (Subcommittee on Africa, Global Health, Global Human Rights, and International Organizations) about “Anti-Semitism: A Growing Threat to All Faiths.” The complete text of his testimony can be read on this blogHere I would like to quote only a couple of sentences from Fellegi’s testimony:

 One should not really argue that certain writings by journalists associated with the center­‐right, such as the infamous commentaries of Zsolt Bayer, cannot be deemed as racist. It is also a fact that there are people associated with the center­‐right political community who support the rehabilitation of the historic period of Admiral Horthy. I am personally against his rehabilitation, and that applies to a wide range of political and literary figures of that era.

Please pay attention to the careful wording. He admits that Zsolt Bayer is considered to be associated with Fidesz–in Fellegi’s word “the center-right”–and that he is a racist. Mind you, Fellegi’s sentence construction is rather complicated, most likely in order to muddy the waters. He also makes it clear that this opinion is his alone. He didn’t say what I think he should have said, that “my party considers Zsolt Bayer a racist and therefore the leadership decided to disassociate itself from him.”

On the very same day that Fellegi testified in Washington about the excellent record of the Orbán government in its resolute fight against antisemitism, Zsolt Bayer celebrated his 50th birthday with friends at the Barabás Villa in Budapest. László Kövér delivered a  toast to Bayer, stating that they “had spent twenty-five years together, through thick and thin and in sadness and joy. Not once have we disowned each other, and we never will.” That is clear, isn’t it.

Zsolt Bayer, who played a key role in organizing the Peace Marches that Viktor Orbán found so critical to his political self-preservation, is an important man as far as the Orbán government is concerned. And if Bayer didn’t know that before Kövér’s endorsement, he certainly knows it now. And he became emboldened. Three days later came a new article in Magyar Hírlap where Bayer is a senior contributor.

As usual, translating Zsolt Bayer is hellishly difficult. The title of the article poses problems already. “Önsorsrontás” is close to untranslatable as one word. Basically it means that “we ourselves are responsible for our future demise.” The “we” here is “the white, Christian race.” Although Bayer never uses the words “Jew” or “Jewish,” he notes that those who have been doing everything in their power to ruin that white Christian race have been at it ever since 1919. I think the date is significant. After all, this marks the short rule of the Hungarian Soviet Republic, which is considered by the right a “Jewish affair.”

And there is another sinful group in every country–the generation of the 1968 “mummies” who complain about the “fascism that is living with us.” Their complaints about the far right and its dangers are merely a “self-justification” for their existence. These people (Jews, liberals?) organize themselves “in packs and attack their victims like loathsome drooling hyenas.” And here comes a typical Zsolt Bayer sentence: “For you only death is the proper punishment. Because you believe in death, in public executions while your victims are left alone, go bankrupt, their friends deny them, they lose their jobs, and come to a sorry end. This is your goal.” Therefore their sins are immeasurable and they will be punished. Because these mysterious people don’t realize “what monster [they] are trying to resuscitate. In fact, [they] woke him up already.”

Hyena pack

Hyena pack

All that sounds pretty threatening, but then comes the twist. “You don’t foresee yet that it will be only we who raise our voices in your defense. We, the marked victims. We are the only ones to whom you can turn for help. It will be only we who will hide you. Because we are good to the point of ruining ourselves. And take this all very seriously. You miserable ones.”

This is not Jobbik speaking but one of the founders of Fidesz who is assured that he will always be among the chosen. Therefore, it really doesn’t matter what Tamás Fellegi personally thinks of Zsolt Bayer or how much János Martonyi complains about “the anti-Hungarian hysterical propaganda that tries to make Fidesz an extension of the racist Jobbik.”

Only recently Ian Kelly, American ambassador to the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe, stated that the American government expected the Hungarian government to condemn Zsolt Bayer for his antisemitic and anti-Gypsy writings because of the documented connection between hate speech and crimes against humanity. The Hungarian government didn’t move a finger. Fellegi’s testimony therefore is worth absolutely nothing. Can you imagine what the members of this subcommittee would think if they could read the writings of the owner of the #5 membership card of Fidesz, the party of the “center-right”  Fellegi is so proud of?

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DD14
Guest

I am putting all my trust into Dr. Ferenc Donath to stop the trainwreck called FIDESZ/JOBBIK regime.

99% of the Hungarians will appreciate his actions.

He will demonstrate when nobody shows.

He is the modern Jean d’Arc.

Member
Looks like the Magyar Hirlap became Hungary’s Völkischer Beobachter. In it in 2013 you can write about the fight of the white race against ______________. By the way the bozo does speak about Jews. He goes “… I wrote about those who are trying to explain and hide their mistakes and sins with their imagined or real Jewishness”. Bayer is the big empty moral bubble of the lunatic extra right of Hungary. This article is so empty as the banker’s heart (oops). The gist of it is basically like “you ______________ are evil people and we ______________ are good people. You know who you are.” That’s it. The article is full of cheesy writing trickery. Short, pompous sentences that he repeats for the second time. Like the “truth” in them have such a weight that we should ponder it. Ah, I see the light! Thank you Mr. Bayer! Such a moron. It’s basically an empty sermon. There is no reference to any real events or people. I guess he fancies himself as the moral compass. The emperor cannot be more butt naked that this guy is. I think this level of narcissism is a pathological case. It sounds like the… Read more »
petofi
Guest

Make noise and be seen: prima donnas all. And in the background, the monstrously ill-willed Orban is laughing his mentally-deranged guts out.

Well, never mind: what the good rabbi once said stands–“Hungary without jews is a whistling peach and baggy pants.” And the truth of that statement will forever eat at the heart of such mediocre-minuses as Bayer.

Member

@Mutt
” the number of believers are dropping with light speed.”

The numbers show a different trend right now. It is perhaps the forced 10% drop in the price of electricity and heating, the billions spent to Fidesz propaganda, the disorganization of the opposition, I do no know.

Do you think the country is heading in the right direction?

February 2013 [October 2012, June 2012]

Yes 24% [16%, 13%]

No 69% [76%, 80%]

Source:
http://median.hu/object.a4f14933-36ef-4cb3-9701-80eff2e39552.ivy

Member

Another article about Hungary in NYT.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/world/europe/hungary-experiments-with-food-tax-to-coax-healthier-habits.html?ref=world&_r=0

I am not even sure these “sin food” taxes are still in place or not.

14-14-14-18-18-18
Guest

Greetings to Petofi.
The blog is full of life when Petofi appears here.
Let us find the solution to the overthrow of the laughable Orban/Jobbik clowns.
The manipulations and selfish mismanagement of Orban and co. do not scare away all Hungarians.
That crowd is still too big. This 15-25% of the citizens, some out od self-interest, some out of indifference, strongly cheer the nonsense of Orban, like they supported Horthy, too.
Most of them are intelligent and otherwise decent people.
Just one thing, they are hostages of the St. Istvan patriotic old Hungary myths.
Most of us discarded these believes with the Enlightenment.
Not these ultra-Hungarians.
But we should not hate them. It would not be a good Christian attitude.
Back in America the craziest house and senate Republicans and Democrats always get the support of the usual suspects.
The rest of us is divided, and leaderless.
Obama is not a clear thinker. He talks fuzzy nonsense most of the time . Not too insane, just fuzzy.
Under his leadership, every extremist East European regime could play its messy tune, and the ineffective Hillary was of no help, too.
With this American incompetence, the world is in a deeper crisis again.

Member

tappanch :
@Mutt
” the number of believers are dropping with light speed.”

I hear ya! But still … When I talk to my fideszoid friends I sense a serious disturbance in the Force.
Anyway. What does this “good direction” mean? Fidesz is loosing support. That’s good direction!

“Fel a fejjel, amíg van!”

Member

muttdamon :

tappanch :
@Mutt
” the number of believers are dropping with light speed.”

I hear ya! But still … When I talk to my fideszoid friends I sense a serious disturbance in the Force.
Anyway. What does this “good direction” mean? Fidesz is loosing support. That’s good direction!
“Fel a fejjel, amíg van!”

I do not know the details of the pollsters’ survey methods. But the numbers show a swing of 10% towards Fidesz in the last 8 months, i.e. Fidesz was able to convince 5% of the people to change their mind and support them again, at least to the pollsters. We shall see whether the February numbers are repeated in March or not.

The democratic opposition is leaderless, that is a huge problem.

There should be daily huge protests against the amendments that solidify Fidesz tyranny, but the opposition parties do not even call for demonstrations!

March 15 is too late, and too infrequent! Mr Mesterhazy is a nice guy, but he has been sleeping for 3 years as the chairman of the biggest opposition party.

Csille328993
Guest
Petőfi, the whistling peach is a kind of snaps, made from peach (btw what happened with said rabbi Landesmann?).More interesting is today’s reaction to MSZP campaign video published today. Mind you, this is not really a proper campaign video, we are far from the elections. It is more like a mood setting, image building, approach-from-afar kind of video. That said, it is one of the very few videos MSZP did in the last 4 years. Probably no lawer has vetted the final cut as RTL (the main Hungarian commercial tv channel) is demanding a reedition of the video as MSZP did not get a license to use a section of RTL’s news program. Anyway, on Youtube (the video is reachable through http://www.mszp.hu) only about a 1100 people saw it, but the reaction of the trolls (mostly the very computer-savvy Jobbik faction of the Fidesz/Jobbik ideological conglomerat) is crazy. They started an an all-out assault. In a couple of hours literally hundreds of comments, under hundreds of different nicks appeared to denounce MSZP and express compltete support for Fidesz and Jobbik). This activity shows the – unparalleled – online media prowsess of both Fidesz and Jobbik. This may be a couple… Read more »
Member
petofi : Make noise and be seen: prima donnas all. And in the background, the monstrously ill-willed Orban is laughing his mentally-deranged guts out. Well, never mind: what the good rabbi once said stands–”Hungary without jews is a whistling peach and baggy pants.” And the truth of that statement will forever eat at the heart of such mediocre-minuses as Bayer. THis kind of attitude does not help the Hungarian issue. Why on Earth would you grab this sentence out and put it here? Do you really think Jews are superior? There are plenty of Hungarians without any Jewish or other heritage mixed into their bloodstream who did outstanding things for Hungary, and who did not advertise that they are “pure Hungarians”. When this sentence was originally spoken, it was in context, not like your and some anti-semites version who dragged out from context. THe “good rabbi” you are referring to has a name, Gyorgy Landeszmann, and he was the chief rabbi in 1993 when he spoke. THe context is that they asked him, why wouldn’t the Hungarian Jews distance themselves from Rakosi, Gero, etc. So his answer was the well know sentence. What it means in that context I will… Read more »
Member

14-14-14-18-18-18 :
Greetings to Petofi.
The blog is full of life when Petofi appears here.
Let us find the solution to the overthrow of the laughable Orban/Jobbik clowns.
The manipulations and selfish mismanagement of Orban and co. do not scare away all Hungarians.

My answer to you is same as to Petofi above. Shame! You guys are the Bayers of the other side or what?

petofi
Guest
Some1 : petofi : Make noise and be seen: prima donnas all. And in the background, the monstrously ill-willed Orban is laughing his mentally-deranged guts out. Well, never mind: what the good rabbi once said stands–”Hungary without jews is a whistling peach and baggy pants.” And the truth of that statement will forever eat at the heart of such mediocre-minuses as Bayer. THis kind of attitude does not help the Hungarian issue. Why on Earth would you grab this sentence out and put it here? Do you really think Jews are superior? There are plenty of Hungarians without any Jewish or other heritage mixed into their bloodstream who did outstanding things for Hungary, and who did not advertise that they are “pure Hungarians”. When this sentence was originally spoken, it was in context, not like your and some anti-semites version who dragged out from context. THe “good rabbi” you are referring to has a name, Gyorgy Landeszmann, and he was the chief rabbi in 1993 when he spoke. THe context is that they asked him, why wouldn’t the Hungarian Jews distance themselves from Rakosi, Gero, etc. So his answer was the well know sentence. What it means in that context… Read more »
Member
petofi : Some1 : petofi : Make noise and be seen: prima donnas all. And in the background, the monstrously ill-willed Orban is laughing his mentally-deranged guts out. Well, never mind: what the good rabbi once said stands–”Hungary without jews is a whistling peach and baggy pants.” And the truth of that statement will forever eat at the heart of such mediocre-minuses as Bayer. THis kind of attitude does not help the Hungarian issue. Why on Earth would you grab this sentence out and put it here? Do you really think Jews are superior? There are plenty of Hungarians without any Jewish or other heritage mixed into their bloodstream who did outstanding things for Hungary, and who did not advertise that they are “pure Hungarians”. When this sentence was originally spoken, it was in context, not like your and some anti-semites version who dragged out from context. THe “good rabbi” you are referring to has a name, Gyorgy Landeszmann, and he was the chief rabbi in 1993 when he spoke. THe context is that they asked him, why wouldn’t the Hungarian Jews distance themselves from Rakosi, Gero, etc. So his answer was the well know sentence. What it means in… Read more »
petofi
Guest
Some1 : petofi : Some1 : petofi : Make noise and be seen: prima donnas all. And in the background, the monstrously ill-willed Orban is laughing his mentally-deranged guts out. Well, never mind: what the good rabbi once said stands–”Hungary without jews is a whistling peach and baggy pants.” And the truth of that statement will forever eat at the heart of such mediocre-minuses as Bayer. THis kind of attitude does not help the Hungarian issue. Why on Earth would you grab this sentence out and put it here? Do you really think Jews are superior? There are plenty of Hungarians without any Jewish or other heritage mixed into their bloodstream who did outstanding things for Hungary, and who did not advertise that they are “pure Hungarians”. When this sentence was originally spoken, it was in context, not like your and some anti-semites version who dragged out from context. THe “good rabbi” you are referring to has a name, Gyorgy Landeszmann, and he was the chief rabbi in 1993 when he spoke. THe context is that they asked him, why wouldn’t the Hungarian Jews distance themselves from Rakosi, Gero, etc. So his answer was the well know sentence. What it… Read more »
Paul
Guest

Stop with the ‘Quotes’ – it’s getting silly!

Member

petofi: My kids are growing up in Canada, and I spent 25 years here. What’s your point? Does this excuse you to put down Hungarians, because they are not Jewish in Hungary? As I said, you are using the same arguments backward as Bayer does, and that does not make you any better, and does not make the Jewish argument stronger. In fact you are helping Bayer to make his point.

Member

Paul :
Stop with the ‘Quotes’ – it’s getting silly!

Don’t read it. lol Scroll. I certainly stopped reading the thread hijacked with Waldorf school, but it is your right to continue with it. Peace!

Kormos
Guest

@Peto fia: Yes;” the country had 45 years of slippery, conniving, lying, betraying and a whole host of sickening behaviors,” and Yes;Some Hungarians “… have for so long sold short their sense of decency that it can no longer be activated”…in order to survive.
I am just wondering,why do you have to suffer there? You said in the past, that you were smart enough to grow up in Canada. You could enjoy life somewhere else, if Hungarians and their politics are so unkind to you.

ohevetliktov
Guest

@Kormos
Where-ever we live, if we understand Hungarian, our moral responsibility is to warn the World. Zsolt Bayer is a nazi. Zsolt Bayer is favored by the present Hungarian government.
Horthy, Wass, Nyiro, Klebelsberg are the shadows of a terrible era and they are all back again. In the curriculum, in the streets and squares. Shame!!!!

Member

Kormos :
@Peto fia: Yes;” the country had 45 years of slippery, conniving, lying, betraying and a whole host of sickening behaviors,” and Yes;Some Hungarians “… have for so long sold short their sense of decency that it can no longer be activated”…in order to survive.
I am just wondering,why do you have to suffer there? You said in the past, that you were smart enough to grow up in Canada. You could enjoy life somewhere else, if Hungarians and their politics are so unkind to you.

What makes you think that he is suffering? He is just angry about this most destructive, incompetent, racist government of the post communist era in Hungary he is and frustrated about his countrymen doing nothing about it.

What is your definition of patriotism, Kormos?

Judy
Guest

I would like to point out that the sentences Eva quotes from Fellegi’s testimony are in the “long” written version of Fellegi’s text but he certainly did not mention Bayer (especially not that he is a racist) in his public, recorded statement in front of the House Committee. I listened to it.

gdfxx
Guest

Judy :I would like to point out that the sentences Eva quotes from Fellegi’s testimony are in the “long” written version of Fellegi’s text but he certainly did not mention Bayer (especially not that he is a racist) in his public, recorded statement in front of the House Committee. I listened to it.

I wonder how this works. When people speak before a congressional committee, after they are done (or maybe before it), they provide the written record of the speech. That is the “record” of that speech. Is there any rule for the two to be identical?

I remember hearing documents to be entered as a congressional record for a speech that was not made (I guess to save time), but I don’t remember someone making an abbreviated speech and then entering the full speech into the record…

Kormos
Guest

@Mutt “A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril. ”
― Winston Churchill

Member

Judy :
I would like to point out that the sentences Eva quotes from Fellegi’s testimony are in the “long” written version of Fellegi’s text but he certainly did not mention Bayer (especially not that he is a racist) in his public, recorded statement in front of the House Committee. I listened to it.

Eva S. Balogh :
To gdfxx. I don’t know what the official record contains exactly. We received the text from the Hungarian Embassy. I should check the Congressional Records.

Well, this is going to be interesting. If it turns out that their official version is differ from what he said to the Committee. It certainly would not be the first time Fidesz tries to fool someone or some organization, as there is a long list of double talk. I am very curios.

petofi
Guest

Kormos :
@Mutt “A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril. ”
― Winston Churchill

`’…nation(s) in their hour of peril…”–Hungary’s peril comes from the sycophants and thieves that populate their present government and seek to subvert the democratic rights of the people.

What peril are you talking about Kormos?
Or, are you just another one of those who suck the putrid milk from Orban’s
teats?

Member
Kormos : @Peto fia: Yes;” the country had 45 years of slippery, conniving, lying, betraying and a whole host of sickening behaviors,” and Yes;Some Hungarians “… have for so long sold short their sense of decency that it can no longer be activated”…in order to survive. I am just wondering,why do you have to suffer there? You said in the past, that you were smart enough to grow up in Canada. You could enjoy life somewhere else, if Hungarians and their politics are so unkind to you. You see, the “petofi” is frustrated, and so am I. I do have relatives there, and I do not live there, but we still care. I am not sure why do you think that everyone who disagrees, who has an opinion about how sheepish sometimes Hungarians can be, should live the country. It sounds that many members of Fidesz and Jobiik suffered enough by the way,and I do not see them packing. Orban actually made a great business out of his “suffering” under the communists, and now form the “conspirators” and “leftists”. Maybe he should pack and go, but then again, there isn’t to many other country where the masses by into his… Read more »
Lecso
Guest

“Petofi”, if you hate Hungarians and Hungary so much, then why not leave? As I understand you came here from Canada, but you despise every second of your life here and the people that surround you. If it was me I would have been out of here already.

You certainly dont do us any favours, those who try to convince the anti-semites that Jews don’t hate Hungarians, but then you come along with your superiority complex and Hungary “Without jews is a whistling peach and baggy pants.”. Why is it ok for you to say that, but at the same time you demand the likes of Wass Albert to be banned?

And why do you differentiate between “Jews” and “Hungarians”, are Jews not Hungarians to you? And if you want to continue with your anti-Hungarian rants, then think about how many Jews there are on Heroes Square. If I was new here, I would think that you were a Fidesz troll pretending and giving everybody the Fidesz stereotype of a Jew.

Jano
Guest

Some1: Thank’s for replying to Petőfi, I got outraged but decided wasn’t worth my time. You said it all great. Race and ethnicity doesn’t make anyone worse but doesn’t make anyone better either. It definitely hasn’t ever saved anyone from being primitive

Member

@Lecso One doesn’t have to be Jewish to agree with Landesmann. Ignorance is rampant in the country.

Also in my humble opinion Albert Wass’ syrupy Transylvanian village romantics is pretty much at the level of the baggy pants. The peach schnapps had more lasting effects on me than his books. Btw nobody wants to ban the books. Just take the freakin nazi out of the curriculum.

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