Maiming the Hungarian constitution: Is the Orbán government willing to pay the price?

While opposition politicians are unable to agree on any meaningful joint action and the so-called intellectual class is deeply divided, the Orbán government is merrily proceeding with its plans to rewrite the new constitution. According to constitutional experts, if the latest amendments are voted into law Hungary will be without a valid constitution.

There was only one group that was ready to take things into their own hands. They decided to engage in civil disobedience. Since ordinary opposition gatherings are not even reported in the public media, tightly controlled by the government, they decided to do something that was guaranteed to get media coverage. They climbed a fence and settled in the courtyard of the Fidesz party headquarters. There they sat  for ten hours and repeated a few slogans. Mostly: “Constitution, Freedom” and “We protest the destruction of the constitutional system of the Hungarian Republic.”

The organizers of the Peace March, András Bencsik and Zsolt Bayer, immediately counterattacked. On Facebook they called on their followers to come and teach a thing or two to these little “Bolsheviks.” And they arrived. Someone described “the fruitful political dialogue” this way:

Youngsters: “We protest the destruction of the constitutional system of the Hungarian Republic.” And here are some of the answers from “the peace guardists”: “Do you want to have some acid in your face?” “Get lost and work!” “I’ll slap you on the face, you rat!” “Rotten, lousy communist stooge!” “Go to Moscow!” “Filthy f…ing Jews!” “Stupid fag!” “Come on out, if you dare, you little queers!”  That will give you an idea about the Fidesz fans who gathered in the name of Christian love and peace.

Here is our gentleman who threatened a young man with acid:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpR87Bjqe2M

Perhaps the officials inside the building no longer trust the police because they were ordered to retire after a while. “Volunteers”  arrived to save the building and those inside it from the peaceful demonstrators. Most of them came from the notorious Fradi (Ferencváros) fan club. One of the volunteers spent ten years in jail for murder and now serves as a “coordinator” for the fan club. The football hooligans physically tried to remove the protesters. Eventually the demonstrators left on their own but not before some of them climbed a wall and positioned themselves on a balcony. The clever student leaders began reciting Fidesz’s 1989 party program which was full of liberal demands. The counter-protesters naturally had no idea that what they were screaming at was really Victor Orbán, their idol.

Older women were especially vocal. They simply couldn’t understand what the protesters were complaining about. How can they be dissatisfied when at last the country has a “good government”? One woman, obviously a pensioner, claimed that it is her money that these students are wasting.

One really has to be deaf and blind to claim that the small crowd that gathered in the courtyard of the Fidesz headquarters was “rabble” as Péter Boros, prime minister of Hungary for a few months after József Antall’s death in 1993-1994, did. Interestingly enough, he had nothing to say about the behavior of the counter-protesters. One can get a vivid picture of the Fidesz crowd by watching this video:

But perhaps the most shocking and most telling example of the mindset of the peace marchers and Orbán supporters is a very professionally executed banner. On it one can see practically all the important MSZP politicians in addition to Ferenc Gyurcsány, Gordon Bajnai, Lajos Bokros, and András Simor. The banner reads: “The nation is in mourning! It suffers from the presence of traitors.”  In Hungarian it has even more punch: “Gyászol a nemzet! Hazaárulóktól szenved!”  Just think about this horrendous statement. I don’t know whether the people actually know what they are saying, because from this banner it is clear that what they want is a one-party system. The opposition has no right to exist. In fact, they should be eliminated as traitors used to be. Perhaps hanged.

The nation is in mourning! It is suffering from the presence of traitors / Népszabadság Árpád Kurucz

The nation is in mourning! It is suffering from the presence of traitors / Népszabadság Árpád Kurucz

Yesterday’s protest was laudable in many ways. Take, for instance, the poise and dignity of the protesters. As you can see on the video, the young man didn’t lose his cool despite repeated physical and verbal abuse. Second, their protest lasted over ten hours. At the beginning they were alone, but once word got out about the gathering others joined them. By the time the demonstrators decided to walk over to the building of the Constitutional Court their numbers had swelled to about 1,000. By contrast, the counter-demonstrators got tired of screaming and their numbers decreased fairly rapidly.

The football hooligans of Gábor Kubatov’s Ferencváros football team, I think we can now say with conviction, are in the employ of Fidesz. Not necessarily in the sense of having paid positions but in being ready to assist “their party”  if necessary. Certainly, someone from the building called on them. One can’t help thinking of the storming of the public television station by Fradi football hooligans.

And finally, the protesters are determined to continue their fight for democracy, the constitution, and the rule of law. Moreover, they seem to have realized that without parties they cannot be successful. At their next demonstration tomorrow parties are welcome.

And, in a critical turn of events, the European Union and the Council of Europe are also waking up to the harsh reality in Hungary. I already wrote about German Undersecretary of Foreign Affairs Michael Link’s warning letter in the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung a few days ago. I was sure at that time that something was brewing in Germany. And, indeed, today ” in a statement reflecting deep seated anxiety at the direction Orbán is taking Hungary, Germany and three other EU countries called for Brussels to be given new power allowing it to freeze EU budget funds to a member state in breach of Europe’s ‘fundamental values.'” The three other countries are the Netherlands, Denmark, and Finland. Since then we found out from the spokesman of the European Commission that José Manuel Barroso phoned Viktor Orbán this morning and warned the Hungarian prime minister that the proposed changes in the Hungarian constitution are not only incompatible with the rule of law but also might violate laws of the European Union. Following the conversation Barroso sent a letter in which he summarized the points he made during the telephone conversation.

I should also mention that today we learned that President János Ader will be in Berlin on Monday and Tuesday next week. On Monday he will meet President Joachim Gauck. Tuesday his first trip will be to Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle followed by a conversation with Chancellor Angela Merkel. Some might say that this trip was arranged some time ago and has nothing to do with the current brouhaha over the Hungarian constitution. Perhaps, but I find it odd that the president of Hungary has an appointment with the German foreign minister. I doubt that this is normal protocol. My hunch is that although the trip might have been arranged earlier, the meeting with Westerwelle was added only recently. But this is only a guess on my part.

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petofi
Guest

Why hasn’t anyone questioned the absence of the police?

But let’s face it, it was all orchestrated: allowing the protesters to appear to ‘invade’ private property; gathering the bunko crowd of low IQ elders (Why didn’t someone tell that woman that her money was not going to pay for the students but to pay for the government paper that Orban insists on selling rather than take the IMF loan?).

Finally, time was needed to bring the new banner and show it off on the tv stations–highlighting the Bajnai/Gyurcsan cabal. Not to mention Kosa’s disgusting, bare-faced lie…just before he sat on his 20k BMW motorbike, for which he no doubt took a franc-loan.

Ain’t Hungarian ‘Democracy’ fun?

Member

Now that the new Facebook interface is about to be revealed soon, Mark Zuckerberg, after reading the Hungarian posts, decided that the Hungarian version of Facebook will have, next to the like button, a “Fuck you!”, a “Hydrochloric Acid” and a “Bajnai the Goose Thief” button.

The Ferencváros Athletic Club (FTC) connection to the Fidesz cannot be clearer now. It wasn’t an accident in 2006 that a little before the street demonstrations Orban visited a soccer game of the FTC, which by then slipped back into the 2nd division, and gave an interview about the sorry state of the club and how unjust was what happened to it.

The name of that thug on the Fidesz payroll is Ferenc Szabo aka “Feri The Blond”. He and his two buddies executed their own mob boss “Micky the Italian”, a drug dealer slash enforcer. They took him in the woods, near Szada, a few miles from BP, and shot him in head. Feri The Blond got 14 years and he was released on parole after ten. The other two got life. The press affectionately called him “Gabor Kubatov’s favorite murderer”.

petofi
Guest

Some meaty stuff there, Mutt. Good post.

Member

http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/SportsHistorian/2000/sh202e.pdf

p. 50

“Fradi became the official team of the ever
more extreme right wing regime to such an extent that in 1944, during the
German occupation, Andor Jaross became its president, who, as the
minister of the interior during the Hungarian fascist regime of the crossarrow
party, was a chief organizer of the deportation of the Jews”

Of course, Jaross was responsible for sending the Jews to Auschwitz under Horthy, BEFORE the Arrow Cross putsch in October 15, 1944.

So Fidesz Party Director & Ferencvaros Chairman Kubatov had famous predecessors like the war criminal Jaross.

And who was Jaross’s boss in the United Hungarian Party (Egyesült Magyar Párt) of Czechoslovakia from 1936?

None other than János Esterházy, who will be honored by a statue in May.

(János Esterházy was the “national executive chairman” and Andor Jaross was the “national chairman”)

Member

Questions –

Which is the color of the Ferencvaros from its foundation?

Which color did the Arrow Cross choose for its shirt-uniform?

Is it a coincidence? [No.]

Member

Fidesz, Orban and Selmeczi feel threatened by their own pasts, by their own slogans.
It is like the Scruge. The Ghosts of Fidesz’ past have visited Orban, Selmeczi and their gang in the face of the peaceful protesters.

I love how Gabriella Selmeczi, MP of Fidesz (who was caught steeling from the local grocery store a few years back) made a statement saying that she never encountered such aggressive behaviour from protesters. Well, maybe she forgot about the old Fidesz protests and slogans. Maybe she also forgot about the protesters of 2006 who were the same people who physically and verbally attacked the peaceful protesters today. The Fidesz mob attacked the TV in 2006 and now attacks the peaceful protesters.

An
Guest

@No, they didn’t forget that.. they are simply lying. The communication strategy is, as always, to make the other party look as bad as possible.

One of the most sinister part of Fidesz’s communication strategy is that with their continuous lies they discredit the potentially valid criticism that could be used against them. This is how it works: Fidesz does something reprehensible (e.g. firing up their supporters to be aggressive) , then it accuses the socialists/liberals of doing that. The beauty of this is that by throwing this baseless accusation at their opponents, the accusation itself looses its bite when you point it out that it is actually Fidesz who is doing it… because the average person only registers that both parties accuse each other with the same things, gets tired of it, and won’t care who is right in accusing the other anymore.

If you look at closely, Fidesz’s strategy is to accuse the socialists/liberals of EVERYTHING that they themselves (the Fidesz) is actually doing. It is almost as if they were projecting their own behavior onto the other party.

petofi
Guest

There is only one degree that the Hungarian Universities are recognized for–a Masters
in Goebbels-ology, otherwise known as registered leaders in the Big Lie.
Fidesz and Viktor can play that sucker 15 ways to Sunday.

gg
Guest
Today there will be a demonstration at 3 PM CET organsied by the people who went into the Fidesz HQ. Sometimes Facebook can be a good thing (although it is overrated in connection with political movements): some 4,200 people said will go there. We’ll see, if the mood is really such. I believe that the opposition parties remain far from the events for two reasons. Partly the orgnaisers are not party political people and don’t want to be associated with any traditional political party, even if there was such a resquest from such parties (ie. the young people want to remain a-party-political). (That said the impotence of the traditional liberal/leftist intellectuals is just terrible, but I guess this is also a reason why these young unknown guys and girls do it, that is clear: no one will do it instead of them, which is also a note to self). The other is the opposition parties don’t want to give the opportunity to Fidesz to use against them any potential illegality or controversy (that Fidesz can trumpet) that may happen there. Also, this event was and will be strictly a Budapest-based event, where Fidesz in all likelyhood already lost its popularity.… Read more »
Member

@gg

It might be raining, but I will be there.

Member

tappanch :
@gg
It might be raining, but I will be there.

Take pictures, and report back to us, please! Have a great day!

Paul Wal
Guest

tappanch :

It might be raining, but I will be there.
Take pictures, and report back to us, please! Have a great day!…Yes please! Thanks.

Member

By the way Gabriella Selmeczi got her law doctor degree from Peter Pazmany University after he became a representative of Fidesz. It is not clear of we are talking about phd or the often discussed small doctorate. THis is the same university from where many Fidesz friends received their doctorate between 1990-2000, and from where Zsolt Semjen received her phd for a work that copied back and forth between his degrees. Selmeczi who was proven to be a thief and an “overuser” of tanning beds fits perfectly into the Fidesz make-up made up of people with questionable degrees, with (court) proven aggression issues, and so forth. What a nice bunch to run a country.

Bowen
Guest

Walking down towards Alkotmany utca just now, there is quite a bad atmosphere on the streets today. There is a large Bekemenet-style parade stretching from Deak Ter to Astoria, and all the traffic has stopped. Main messages: ‘We’ve had enough!” “We won’t let the EU take more money!”

Like I said, quite a different atmosphere – quite a lot of anger from ‘normal’ people on the streets. Something’s going to ignite one of these days.

Member

Bowen :
Walking down towards Alkotmany utca just now, there is quite a bad atmosphere on the streets today. There is a large Bekemenet-style parade stretching from Deak Ter to Astoria, and all the traffic has stopped. Main messages: ‘We’ve had enough!” “We won’t let the EU take more money!”
Like I said, quite a different atmosphere – quite a lot of anger from ‘normal’ people on the streets. Something’s going to ignite one of these days.

Bowen, I guess you are out “with Tappanch”. Nice to know that we have some direct info.
I wish someone would take a sign out saying that
The EU did not take any money from Hungary.
The EU only gave money to Hungary.
Please, do not let Orban stop the EU giving us money! Sop Orban and his friend to bankrupt Hungary!

TTRon
Guest

Some1: in Hungary if you finish a law school you get to wear the title dr. (i guess officially it should be “dr. iur. “, but people use it simply as dr.) .

The law school lasts at least five continuous years in Hungary and the degree is equivalent to a masters, but like in the US,where you will get a title (JD, esquire), here you will be a dr. (which sounds fancier).

Selemczi probably got her degree in night school or by correspondence by the way, but anyway if she finished the law schoo somehow, she is a dr. (Like if you are a medical doctor, a dentist, a vetenirary doctor, or – as of late, if I am not msitaken – even a pharmacist).

In Italy one with a degree in ecomonist is also a dottore. In Latin-America everebody with a university degree or in a serous position is a doctor or a professor.

Member

Interview with Laszlo Kover on HirTV, Hungary’s eloquant speaker of the house (who is obviously shaping down to the lowest denominator in the Hungarian Parliament). THis is what he had to say about Bajnai: “Aki figyeli a politikai történéseket, az tudja, hogy a Bajnai-féle társaságot Amerikából pénzelik” „Bajnai Gordonnak azt kellett volna mondania, hogy szégyellem a pofámat, (…) el is megyek a fészkes fenébe”.

“Anyone who monitors the political happenings knows that the “kind of Bajnai company” is being financed from the United States.” ” Gordon Bajnai should of said that I ashamed of my mug, and now I am going to go to bloody hell.”

His point is that it is the opposition that creates division amongst Hungarians, while Fidesz tries to create a cohesive society. He forgot to mention who is financing the Fidesz propaganda, and the millions of forints that they spent on anti-EU campaigns. Everyone who is against them according to Kover are the people who are not worthy for the parliament.

Member

TTRon :
Some1: in Hungary if you finish a law school you get to wear the title dr. (i guess officially it should be “dr. iur. “, but people use it simply as dr.) .
The law school lasts at least five continuous years in Hungary and the degree is equivalent to a masters, but like in the US,where you will get a title (JD, esquire), here you will be a dr. (which sounds fancier).
Selemczi probably got her degree in night school or by correspondence by the way, but anyway if she finished the law schoo somehow, she is a dr. (Like if you are a medical doctor, a dentist, a vetenirary doctor, or – as of late, if I am not msitaken – even a pharmacist).
In Italy one with a degree in ecomonist is also a dottore. In Latin-America everebody with a university degree or in a serous position is a doctor or a professor.

Thank you, but we had a long discussion about the Hungarian Dr. phd., transfer of old degrees from small doctorate to Phd, the Bologna Process, and so forth. You can find the many discussions about this subject via the Search function of the top right corner.

Paul Wal
Guest

Eva S. Balogh :

Bowen :
Walking down towards Alkotmany utca just now, there is quite a bad atmosphere on the streets today. There is a large Bekemenet-style parade stretching from Deak Ter to Astoria, and all the traffic has stopped. Main messages: ‘We’ve had enough!” “We won’t let the EU take more money!”
Like I said, quite a different atmosphere – quite a lot of anger from ‘normal’ people on the streets. Something’s going to ignite one of these days.

Wow, I was hoping for something like that!!!

Bowen…please keep us informed. Is there any live stream TV coverage available?

Pete H.
Guest

Livestream of the protest here: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/ertunk-hu

Paul Wal
Guest

The gloves are off:
“In a statement reflecting deep-seated anxiety at the direction in which Orbán is taking Hungary, Germany and three other EU countries called for Brussels to be given new powers allowing it to freeze EU budget funds to a member state in breach of Europe’s “fundamental values”.
“Budapest dismissed the call for a delay. “It is unacceptable that
prior to the adoption of the amendment the Council of Europe
should announce a preliminary judgment which is clearly based on
misunderstandings. We find this behaviour especially strange,”
said a statement from Orbán’s party”.
“… as a last resort, the suspension of EU funding should be possible.”
The last resort, the last possible course of action, is already where the EU
stands right now.
Also to say……that contacting (

“In a statement reflecting deepseated anxiety at the direction Orbán is taking Hungary, Germany and three other EU countries called for Brussels to be given new
powers allowing it to freeze EU budget funds to a member state
in breach of Europe’s “fundamental values”.)….our “leaders….political parties, which we do…works!!!!

Paul Wal
Guest

Oooops…me and my lovely Hungarian and Dutch wife…are right now, proud to be Dutch.

Member
Meanwhile, the Goebbels of the Fidesz, Gabor Kubatov, sent out an email to all “supporters”. Apparently to everybody who was registered with email address. This is the beginning of the email: Dear Friends! We would like to inform you of yesterday’s events. A group of radical students attacked in the morning the Fidesz Lendvay Street headquarters. They climbed over the fence and wanted to get into the building. Meanwhile the already notified leftist journalists accompanied them with video cameras. Thanks to the decisive action of our colleagues only a few of them made it in, the rest of them stayed outside in the courtyard. The activists sat down on the ground then later time to time tried to break in into the building. During this they vandalized the property, assaulted the employees and kicked a female co-worker. They had no respect to the older employees, who were frightened seeing such unprecedented brutality. They were searching for documents then later took the contents of the trash bins. This unprecedented action of these young people is against the law. It is trespassing. The Fidesz, even though could do it, did not ask for police intervention (as opposed to 2006, when the eyes… Read more »
Member

Here is the difference between 2006 and 2013:

http://on.fb.me/ZzNvsW

Member

More than 100,000 are watching the live stream: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/ertunk-hu

An
Guest

@muttdamon: Not only Kubatov lying in this letter, but also organizing a pool of “volunteers” who are willing to go “defend” Fidesz headquarters during similar “atrocities”.

In a land of law (which Hungary is not, not any longer), if somebody is engaged in illegal behavior (i.e. trespassing, vandalism) , you normally would call the police, and not organize a private army to defend yourself. So why is Fidesz organizing this private army? Why are they circumventing the police (which is under Fidesz control anyway). I believe it is to create more trouble and to provoke violence, not to prevent it. And then when fighting breaks out, then the police may step in, to maintain order… this way the government can appear as a third party (not as the cause for the disturbance) who is just stepping in to maintain order in a fight between civilians… which of course calls for more centralization of power.

Member

The is the 1989 Fidesz party program they have found in the trash.

http://bit.ly/10v8NNb

I can’t find it in English. Can somebody translate? Amazing! It is chanted on the streets right now.

Member

There were about 4 thousand people at the demonstration, a disappointingly low number
(the weather was perfect, 14 centigrades, and it was not raining)

That is not enough to change Orban’s mindset.

Member

Pete H. :
Livestream of the protest here: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/ertunk-hu

Read the comments too. Hungarians are waking up!
(Thanks for the link)

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