The current state of the Hungarian opposition: Negotiations between MSZP and DK

I’m afraid I have to go back to the MSZP-DK negotiations because some of the coverage of MSZP’s reactions is far too sketchy.  MTI, which serves all Hungarian news organizations, first reported that MSZP found “three of DK’s nine-point suggestions unacceptable.” They are unacceptable because they suggest a renegotiation of the agreement between MSZP and Együtt 2014-PM. MSZP also found it worrisome that DK offers only “an election alliance while the socialists and Együtt 2014-PM agreed to a political alliance.”

Since not too many publications bothered to reprint DK’s nine-point proposal, which is available on DK’s webpage, I’m going to list the points here. Some of the more important passages are quoted verbatim. Others are only summarized.

(1) DK’s ideal arrangement would still be naming a common prime minister and having only one common party list. Therefore “we suggest holding out the possibility of coming to a possible understanding on these issues.”

(2)  “We recognize the validity of the MSZP-Együtt 2014 agreement. Although at present we are negotiating only with MSZP, we want to adhere to the MSZP-Együtt-PM agreement and we would like to apply the principles and their consequences to the agreement as a whole.”

(3) “The Demokratikus Koalíció is interested in the success of the negotiations and to this end the Party is ready to give up its right to form its own list and put up individual candidates.”

(4) “The desired agreement aims at concluding not a political but an electoral alliance…. From here on parties of the electoral alliance … will represent their own politics independently.”

(5) “It is our aim to have a common MSZP-DK list and to have common individual candidates.”

(6) DK believes in proportional representation when it comes to the individual candidates of the 106 electoral districts. MSZP and Együtt 2014 together have 1.4-1.6 million voters, DK has 100-200,000.

(7) Each party will have the right to name its own preferred candidates in the individual districts as well as on the lists.

(8) According to the unbroken Hungarian custom, “the largest party, i.e. MSZP, has the right to name the first person on the list and the smaller party, i.e. DK, will be able to name someone for the second place.”

(9) The two parties will prepare jointly for the election, they will name a team together and will jointly finance the campaign.

Even before the official word came from MSZP headquarters Magyar Hírlap learned from socialist sources that “MSZP is no longer interested in Gyurcsány.” According to the paper, MSZP politicians believe that leaving DK out of the agreement is more beneficial to MSZP because, according to polls ordered by the party, MSZP will receive twice as many votes without DK than with DK support. The paper took it for granted that as a result of MSZP’s refusal Ferenc Gyurcsány’s party will enter the race alone.

This doesn’t seem to be the case, however. As of this moment we still don’t know which three points are unacceptable to MSZP. In addition to these three unnamed points MSZP, which originally sided with DK on voting rights for ethnic Hungarians living in neighboring countries, by now has changed its mind, most likely as a result of pressure from Együtt-2014-PM. Now MSZP insists on DK’s acceptance of this Fidesz-introduced law which in fact is unpopular among people in Hungary proper. MSZP also wants to have an answer about DK’s position on a tuition-free first year of college.

It would seem on first blush that there  is no reason to think that there will be an agreement between these two parties. But MSZP didn’t close the door. The talks continued, after which Gyurcsány seemed optimistic. He claimed that “we got one step closer to an accord” and expressed his hope that a final agreement will be reached within days.  Gyurcsány said that DK doesn’t want to reopen the negotiations, stressing that its nine-point proposal didn’t contain such a demand. He also indicated that DK accepts all of the policy concepts on which MSZP and E14 agreed. I assume that means DK’s abandonment of its strongly held view on ethnic Hungarian voting rights.

Gyurcsány found it especially heartwarming that MSZP didn’t raise objections to DK’s proposals for a common list and common candidates. He added that there was no MSZP criticism of DK’s ideas on proportionality. According to him, MSZP simply indicated that they don’t want to extend that principle to Együtt 2014-PM because MSZP had already closed those negotiations.

Last Sunday  MSZP-DK-Együtt 2014 logos together resulted a large victory for the candidate on the by-election in Szigetszentmiklós

Last Sunday MSZP-DK-Együtt 2014 logos together resulted a large victory for the candidate in the by-election in Szigetszentmiklós

If Gyurcsány’s understanding of the conversation with the MSZP leadership is correct, this would mean that DK would have the right to name its own candidates in 7 or 8 districts. In the 75 districts to which MSZP is currently entitled, all candidates would run under the MSZP-DK logos. And on the list DK politicians would receive about 10% of the places.

Perhaps Gyurcsány is overly optimistic, but if his description of the situation is correct, DK is not as badly off as I thought only a few hours ago. I still have some doubts, however. What if MSZP insists on leaving Gyurcsány off the list? There is no way that DK will ever accept that demand. What will Együtt 2014-PM think if DK’s logo appears alongside MSZP’s red carnation? Or perhaps Gyurcsány’s reference to “common candidates” doesn’t mean that they would run under MSZP and DK logos. In brief, there are still many questions. But within a few days we ought to know more.

Sort by:   newest | oldest | most voted
Member
So, we have a situation where Gyurcsany, as MSZP prime minister in 2006, governs so poorly that the streets of Budapest break out in riots and the MSZP descends into a black hole of unpopularity. The MSZP, in its infinite wisdom, votes confidence in Gyurcsany and elevates him to the post of party president in 2007. By 2009, even the least intelligent Socialists realize that it’s time to dump Gyurcsany. But by then, it was too late — Gyurcsany and his allies had already created the situation that allowed Fidesz to win a two-thirds majority and turn Hungary into a virtual monocracy. In the 2010 elections, the Socialists post their worst showing since 1990. Following this drubbing, things get ever more tense between the ex-PM and the party he once led. Then, in 2011, the Gyurcsany and nine other rebels desert the MSZP’s parliamentary caucus to form the Democratic Coalition. This diminishes the Socialists’ power in parliament and quite nearly makes Jobbik the second-biggest caucus. Now, Gyurcsany — one of the least popular politicians in the country — wants to make nice with the Socialists and run common candidates. If Mesterhazy accepts that deal, he should go out in the… Read more »
spectator
Guest
Seal Driver : So, we have a situation where Gyurcsany, as MSZP prime minister in 2006, governs so poorly that the streets of Budapest break out in riots and the MSZP descends into a black hole of unpopularity. For your information, the riots of 2006 has nothing to do with Gyurcsany’s governance – as the population concerned, – it was all about how a couple of MSZP old-timers managed to give enough ammunition to Fidesz to start up that memorable campaign. In my opinion the “incriminating” speech so far the most honest statements of recent history – but, of course, your’e free to interpret the same way as all the orbanist horde, I have no objection. However, anyone even with a half brain should realize, that there is no way around DK, neither of the other even smaller players, if there really is some intention to send away this megalomaniac bunch of inadequate morons who happens to govern presently. Then comes up the rather obvious question too: why would anyone vote rather to – say P. Juhász -than Gyurcsány? What merits prove him more suitable? As I see it, if there is a serious will to change this dreadful gang… Read more »
Member

It doesn’t doesn’t matter what the truth is. Seal’s post shows exactly why we should stay away from Gyurcsany. Because the majority of the country agrees with Seal. Left and right.

Gyurcsany is bad juju. Nobody wants the Gyurcsany party. My heart breaks, but we need votes in 2014 not the Dk.

Enough of this nonsense. Game over.

petofi
Guest

For the opposition winning will rely on two specific policies:
One, the vote in 2014 should be considered a referendum on staying or leaving the EU since Orban is so obviously maneuvering the ship of state out of the Union.
Two, opposition list members, led by Bajnai and Mesterhazy, should commit to a Probity Clause that will have stringent rules
and penalties for fraudulent conduct by elected members.
Let each ‘list’ member sign such a document and, at every occasion, wave it in the face of Fidesz members they oppose…to outline those same Fidesz members wrong doings and how they should’ve suffered legally…

tappanch
Guest

September 4
Viviane Reding is now satisfied with Orban’s dictatorship. Shame on the EU.

“After many exchanges, Hungary has respected the legal views of the
Commission and has brought its constitution back in line with EU law
with regard to all the points raised by the Commission. Hungary has respected –
as the rule of law requires – the judgement of the Court of Justice of November
last year which confirmed the Commission’s view that the anticipated mandatory
retirement of 10% of the Hungarian judiciary was not in line with EU law.

President Barroso and I were intensely involved in bringing all these matters
to a satisfying conclusion from a legal perspective.”

Viviane Reding – The EU and the Rule of Law – What next?

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-13-677_en.htm?locale=en

—————————-
March 25
Mrs Tunde Szajer nee Hando

We sent 231 judges into early retirement.
From these judges, 164 judges started a lawsuit against the Hungarian government.
From this number, 50 judges were reinstated.

hvg.hu/itthon/20130325_Hando_231_birot_kuldtunk_nyugdijba_tavaly
——————-

Does anyone know the updated number of the reinstated judges?

tappanch
Guest

The “National” Election Commission will be formed in September.

The Fidesz Parlament will elect 7 members and 3 substitute members for 9 years.
The parliamentary factions that are recognized by Fidesz [!] can add 1 delegate each, i.e. DK and E14 will NOT be represented in the Commission.

In my counting, we shall have

9 Fidesz-KDNP members
1 Jobbik
1 MSzP
1 LMP members at the end of the month, i.e.

a preprogrammed 3/4 Fidesz super-majority.

The Election Commission will have wide powers rejecting demands for referendums, rejecting claims of fraud, declaring the winners in the elections.

http://www.jogiforum.hu/hirek/30291

spectator
Guest
During the recent week or two I keep wondering about a couple of question nobody seem eager to clarify. I hope, the learned participants of this blog might. – When ever the name of Mesterházy comes up as a possible PM candidate, nearly always I hear: nay, he’s to young, still got time, and anyway, has no experience at all, but over all: power-hungry..! Well, just how much older Orbán was in ’98? How much more political experience Bajnai has got at the time he became PM? (There always a first time, and all this crap, but still..!) If he wasn’t interested about the power what comes with the job, why would he be there at all? Bringing back MSZP from near extinction proves some skills to me. How about it? – When ever the name of Gyurcsány comes up at all, but particularly as a leader of a party, – which is in my opinion the only contemporary, modern political entity in Hungary, but never mind tis – there is always the remark: he should withdraw from politics, since he is unpopular, and anyway, he has “done bad things, even lied, day and night…”, so why does he still… Read more »
Member

Its not just Fidesz voters and opposition voters. Thats not enough. We need to win some of the disappointed right and of course the undecided.

There is another thing besides the elections. Imagine we won and the government has build public support. What if he does the same. Tries to blackmail the new government. The DK “will stand by its opinion” unless they get a ministry. Sounds familiar?

spectator
Guest

One more question, and a rather important one: does anyone heard anything of the ideological basis of the E14 as a party?
I’ve heard a few, rather fuzzy statements here and there, but these are mostly messy, inconsistent and rather populist.
Of course, it may have exist and I may have missed – and I apologize for my ignorance – nevertheless, would be nice to know, which way they’ll turn if the time comes.

spectator
Guest

muttdamon :
Its not just Fidesz voters and opposition voters. Thats not enough. We need to win some of the disappointed right and of course the undecided.
There is another thing besides the elections. Imagine we won and the government has build public support. What if he does the same. Tries to blackmail the new government. The DK “will stand by its opinion” unless they get a ministry. Sounds familiar?

Mutt, DK isn’t only Gyurcsány, and yes, there is quite a few people whom I rather see in the velvet chair from them than P.Juhász.
Don’t you?

Member

Spectator, its not me. I like Gyurcsany. But he starts buzzing around the government after an anti-fidesz win, the Fidesz will constantly be playing the Gyurcsany card. 2006 will repeat itself. At least the brainwash part. Gyurcsany just had this loser aura …

Member

Regarding Juhasz. I trust Bajnai that he would be able to manage Juhasz or dump him if needed. Gyurcsany is unmanageable.

Member

Mutt :
It doesn’t doesn’t matter what the truth is. Seal’s post shows exactly why we should stay away from Gyurcsany. Because the majority of the country agrees with Seal. Left and right.
Gyurcsany is bad juju. Nobody wants the Gyurcsany party. My heart breaks, but we need votes in 2014 not the Dk.
Enough of this nonsense. Game over.

The fact is, I personally like Gyurcsany. A close personal friend of mine is a founding member of DK.

I think Gyurcsany should have resigned in 2006 because his position had become untenable, no matter what the good intentions behind his Oszodi speech, and Fidesz’s deliberate, immoral misrepresentation thereof.

My post was intended to summarize how the public would perceive a kiss-and-make-up session between Gyurcsany and the MSZP.

spectator
Guest
muttdamon : Spectator, its not me. I like Gyurcsany. But he starts buzzing around the government after an anti-fidesz win, the Fidesz will constantly be playing the Gyurcsany card. 2006 will repeat itself. At least the brainwash part. Gyurcsany just had this loser aura … Mostly I agree with you, but compared with the E14, but even with MSZP the DK has the most brain-power per square meter, I am positive. Otherwise I heard Gyurcsány a couple of times consequently declaring that he don’t want to be a PM, he even recommended and supported Bajnai as long as he and his party were treated fairly. However, the DK is there, and without them there is no chance to get anywhere. Another day I’ve heard of a DK supporter saying, that they indeed vote to an E14 candidate if it was the interest of the united opposition, but he would be reluctant to vote for MSZP – even of the same reason – because he thought the E14 is much closer to his view. Which means, it’s a mistake to freeze out Gyurcsány and his party, they should be integrated somehow instead of antagonizing them. There must be a way or… Read more »
Member
Eva S. Balogh : Mutt : It doesn’t doesn’t matter what the truth is. Seal’s post shows exactly why we should stay away from Gyurcsany. Because the majority of the country agrees with Seal. Left and right. Gyurcsany is bad juju. Nobody wants the Gyurcsany party. My heart breaks, but we need votes in 2014 not the Dk. Enough of this nonsense. Game over. The fact is that this is not really the case. Of course, this is what Fidesz voters think but supporters of the opposition parties are not at all that antagonistic toward Gyurcsány. In fact, for the majority it makes no difference whether he is in or out of the alliance. You remember when Medián came out with a poll that inquired about popularity of Mesterházy versus Bajnai and once Medián discarded the Fidesz voters and counted only people who would vote for the opposition, Bajnai’s popularity became much greater than that of Mesterházy. I understand that the situation is very much the same when it comes to opinion on Gyurcsány. Once you discard Fidesz voters, his unpopularity is nothing like what an ordinary popularity polls suggest. I have never seen a poll that measured Gyurcsany’s view… Read more »
Member
Eva S. Balogh : Mutt : It doesn’t doesn’t matter what the truth is. Seal’s post shows exactly why we should stay away from Gyurcsany. Because the majority of the country agrees with Seal. Left and right. Gyurcsany is bad juju. Nobody wants the Gyurcsany party. My heart breaks, but we need votes in 2014 not the Dk. Enough of this nonsense. Game over. The fact is that this is not really the case. Of course, this is what Fidesz voters think but supporters of the opposition parties are not at all that antagonistic toward Gyurcsány. In fact, for the majority it makes no difference whether he is in or out of the alliance. You remember when Medián came out with a poll that inquired about popularity of Mesterházy versus Bajnai and once Medián discarded the Fidesz voters and counted only people who would vote for the opposition, Bajnai’s popularity became much greater than that of Mesterházy. I understand that the situation is very much the same when it comes to opinion on Gyurcsány. Once you discard Fidesz voters, his unpopularity is nothing like what an ordinary popularity polls suggest. Sorry, the formatting got messed up on the previous reply.… Read more »
2013SadYear
Guest

It is useless to listen to the Fidesz members and supporters.
Delusion is not their worst features.
Orban and co. deceived and betrayed Hungary and Europe.
The wise patriots know this, and some of them are not afraid to admit it.
Janos Gyurgyak, Attila Jakab, Csaba Fazekas, Tibor Meray, Laszlo Bartus……

2013Braves
Guest

Strong people are needed in the EU leadership.
The leadership must display characters like Churchilll’s.
Viviane Redings do not need to apply, who hardly qualifies to run a McDonalds’.

petofi
Guest

Viviane Reding backtrack….the long reach of the Azeri caper…

Datat
Guest
2013Braves, Petofi: Reading, like all EU burocrats is nothing more than a sorry clown with zero powers. She and her advisers and well-fed colleagues are no match to tough Eastern Europeans like Orbán and his minions. If this goes on for long, even János Lázár will eat the eurocrats for breakfast. (The Americans always sell everything to the EU whether it’s “cloud computing” in the name of progress or GMO, they know that the EU can be sold anything if one is aggressive enough). Like it was said, Orban backtracks in absolutely minimal places (but gets even tougher at other issues) and then he can sell it to Reading as a nice compromise. Reading will be happy, she can also claim victory and deal with other issues. The best part is that Orban can go around and boast about his savvyness and tell everybody that the EU is just a bunch of pushovers (well, true, I am afraid). But the EU will never have tough leaders, because it is the last thing UK, France or Germany want. The EU will only have clowns like the lady with foreign relation portfolio or the Belgian with that I don’t know what kind… Read more »
tappanch
Guest

I would like to write to Ms Reding, but I am not able to find her e-mail address.

Does anyone know it?

Ron
Guest

tappanch :
I would like to write to Ms Reding, but I am not able to find her e-mail address.
Does anyone know it?

http://ec.europa.eu/commission_2010-2014/reding/contact/index_en.htm

Ron
Guest

Reding’s contact details. You can also sent an e-mail to her spokeswoman:

http://ec.europa.eu/commission_2010-2014/reding/contact/index_en.htm

Mina Andreeva
Phone (+32-2) 299.13.82
Fax (+32-2) 296.07.46
Email: Mina.Andreeva@ec.europa.eu

tappanch
Guest

Ms Reding does not support the establishment of a special monitoring mechanism for Hungary as envisioned in the Tavares report.

http://bruxinfo.hu/cikk/20130904-reding-nem-lat-lehetoseget-a-kulon-magyar-monitoringra.html

LwiiH
Guest

Eva S. Balogh :
One ought to be a bit more sophisticated politically. Life is never that simple.

Sorry to say but this is what the voting masses remember and this is their level of sofistication. By all accounts, fair or not, you have to agree that Fidesz was successful in taking down Gy. The question is remains, why was Gy unable to prevent it or fright back in a way that the unsophisticated masses could identify with him. So yes, he did lead the country into a 2/3rds majority and the mess that came with it.

buddy
Guest

Totally OT (sorry), but I happened to catch a little bit of the Ferencváros-Sopron football game on TV last night, played at Puskás Stadium, and NOBODY was in the stands watching. It was so bizarre. I checked Nemzeti Sport this morning and they reported that 400 people were in the stadion. 400! Even the average American high school football team can get more than that to watch one of their games, if I understand correctly.

Puskás holds 68 976 people according to Wikipedia, so the venue was 0.6% full. (400 is also 0.02% of the population of Budapest). Moreover, we had nice weather outside, perfect for watching a sports game.

I realise that Sopron is second division, but isn’t Fradi the most popular team in the country or something? Why do we keep throwing money at this sport with such small support? I wonder if Hungary keeps building larger football stadiums, the result is that it will seem that they will appear even less full than before.

qaz
Guest

Sometime one has to realize that perception IS reality.

By failing to take that into consideration one is merely deluding him/herself and taking dreams for reality.

Good or bad, it is a fact that Gy has been discredited. It is irrelevant at this stage to argue whether the discredit is merited or not (although one may question the political wisdom of delivering “that” speech). To move forward towards a goal, one has to take into account the facts on the ground (or on the battlefield) as they are and not as they should be or wished to be.

wpDiscuz