Viktor Orbán’s (temporary) retreat in his battle with Ferenc Gyurcsány?

Some of my readers and I don’t see eye-to-eye on the government’s decision to release two secret service documents that deal with Ferenc Gyurcsány’s controversial speech of 2006. They are convinced that this move is a fantastic coup against the opposition and that if the united opposition had any sense whatsoever it would drop the subject as soon as possible. Anything, they claim, that has to do with the speech is political poison.

I see it differently. Even if the two documents had substantiated the government’s claim that Gyurcsány was complicit in the leak, the political gain for Fidesz would have been minimal. But the documents didn’t support their claim. Moreover, since Gordon Bajnai and Ferenc Gyurcsány knew not only about the two released documents but about others that contradict Eduardo Rózsa-Flores’s assumptions, questions were bound to arise about a half forgotten story. And in that story Fidesz was very much involved.

The release of the documents raised the possibility that someone would slip up. And indeed Lajos Kósa did. Only half a year ago he denied that he knew anything about the tape prior to its publication. So did Tibor Navracsics and Viktor Orbán. And now here in black and white was a detailed description by Flores of how the tape ended up in his hands and went from him via an intermediary to Lajos Kósa. Confronted with the document and pressured by Antónia Mészáros, Kósa cracked. He admitted that they have been lying about their knowledge of the tape and their own role in making it public. Fidesz politicians who in the last eight years have talked incessantly about Ferenc Gyurcsány’s lies are found to be liars themselves. It was time for damage control.

I can only imagine what Lajos Kósa got from Viktor Orbán after that interview. He must have been ordered to correct his “mistake,” which he did this morning on Magyar Rádió. While yesterday he admitted that he got hold of the tape from a fellow from Miskolc which he then distributed to the press, by today his story had been substantially edited. He denied any knowledge of the tape’s content before it was read on Magyar Rádió.

Sándor Pintér was also asked to do his best to squelch the growing scandal. After all, only Magyar Nemzet and Magyar Hírlap were talking about the sins of Ferenc Gyurcsány;  other publications started probing into the revelations of Fidesz’s involvement. And that probing went beyond the leak itself. People kept asking about Fidesz’s role in the preparation and organization of the disturbances themselves.

Pintér’s line of reasoning at a late afternoon press conference was interesting. While two days ago the big news was the source of the leak, i.e. whether Gyurcsány initiated the leak of his own speech or not, today Pintér claimed that “the circumstances of the leak are unimportant” because the unauthorized removal of the tape is not a crime. The important part of the story is the content of the speech, he emphasized. But then why did they release these documents that centered on the circumstances of the leak, circumstances that two days later were deemed unimportant? There is no good answer here.

In addition to Pintér’s feeble explanation Magyar Nemzet came up with one of its ownThe argument goes something like this: Why the big fuss about the leak? Who really cares who was responsible? After all, we just heard from the former editor-in-chief of Népszabadság that J. Zoltán Gál, undersecretary in charge of the prime minister’s office, approached him to ask whether he would be interested in an edited version of a terrific speech his “boss” delivered. So, the argument goes, let’s not spend any more time on this trivial matter, especially when MSZP wanted to have it made public anyway. Another misguided argument. With this claim they only support Gyurcsány’s contention that his audience was enthralled and that he didn’t think there was anything in the speech one had to be ashamed of.

The most worrisome announcement that Sándor Pintér made at this press conference was that there is no other “final report” on Balatonőszöd. We are talking here about the report that both Gordon Bajnai and Ferenc Gyurcsány saw and that both claim contains some damaging material on Fidesz’s involvement in the affair that ended in violence on the streets of Budapest. That indicates that as things stand now the Orbán government is planning to eliminate in one way or another an important piece of evidence.  I’m sure that Bajnai cannot lay his hands on the document, but Gyurcsány may have a copy of it which, as he said, “landed on his desk.”

source: szabadeuropa.shp.hu

Source: szabadeuropa.shp.hu

Moreover, the Népszabadság article to which Magyar Nemzet referred also states that two days before the release of the tape Ferenc Gyurcsány sent an article to the paper entitled “Haladás vs. maradás” (Progress versus Backwardness) in which he pretty well told the reading public what he said in his Balatonőszöd speech. The editors asked him whether in light of the new developments he wanted to change anything in his text. His answer was “no.” Obviously even after the speech was released he saw no reason to change anything in the text.

As I said earlier, any party would have taken advantage of the opportunity the leaked tape offered Fidesz sometime in July-August of 2006. I don’t blame them. What on the other hand, a responsible democratic party cannot do is to systematically prepare a coup d’état. Unfortunately, it looks as if this is exactly what Viktor Orbán was doing. There are just too many signs pointing in this direction.

Finally, here is a new piece of information from Péter Zentai, today a journalist with HVG but at the time Magyar Rádió’s Berlin correspondent. Right after the Budapest siege one of the German television stations organized a round-table discussion on the Hungarian events. Zentai participated in this discussion, as did a British TV journalist. The British journalist insisted that the outbreak of violence couldn’t have been spontaneous because his television station and Sky TV had been approached by a Hungarian news station a week before the fateful weekend. They were invited to come to Budapest because “interesting things will happen.” Zentai was stunned and tried to air this story on Magyar Rádió. Even then, however, MR was partial to Fidesz, and one of the middle managers refused to report Zentai’s information from the British television journalist.

Bits and pieces of new information emerge day after day. Viktor Orbán seems far too eager to eliminate his arch-rival and thus keeps making mistakes.

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Member

I have a question to those who are more in the know of the EU legal proceedings. If there would be enough evidence to suggest that in deed Fidesz was behind the events of 2006, is there any legal ways to look for justice? WHat would justice be? Is there a civil lawsuit that can be launched? etc.

HiBoM
Guest

And what exactly is your point here? You write “What on the other hand, a responsible democratic party cannot do is to systematically prepare a coup d’état. Unfortunately, it looks as if this is exactly what Viktor Orbán was doing.” But as this is precisely what he has been doing for the last four years, I hope you are not trying to say you are surprised. No one else is. And that is why it is such a non issue.

Dr. L. PETROVICS Ofner
Guest
Dr. L. PETROVICS Ofner

Beloved leader of our flock, Eva. “Bits and pieces of new information emerge day after day,” what stays with the masses now is ONLY that which is branded at deep brain. Where I sit they shout at the TV, /!%=/Who ever heard a Rime Minister'”!%)(=Whored down our nation, lied morning noon and night.
Think DEEP brain, as in a lizard. The elegance of our poetry, what democracy is, human rights, are NOT at deep brain. They are at the level of the cortex. Deep brains yells, Stay alive X”+%=/ “And Gyurcsany said, “You can leave at any time!%+=)@@ How can we do that? asks the old woman cursing at Gy. “Why don’t you leave.” . .

An
Guest

Sorry for the repost, but I meant to post this here, not under yesterday’s thread.
———————————————————————————————————

Well, this shows that Fidesz’s disrespect for democracy started well before 2010. What we see happening since 2010 is just the gradual de-masking of their true (undemocratic) selves.

pantecostal
Guest
I wholly support the post’s arguments. It is also a common knowledge among the most popular internet sites that their editors were also warned by mysterious sources that “there were going to be serious events coming soon”, so they should better get prepared. I think this has not really been publicized so far. The 2006 events were planned by Orban and the secret service elements behind him, who apparently are still loyal to him, although that is no surprise. Elek Tokfalvi, the blogger, has further interesting theories about this too, which I found very plausible, he wrote about those on his now defunct blog. But the trick was not the 2006 TV siege, I contend. If one reads “V for vendetta”, and excuse me for referring to this comic book (there was also a movie made out of it), it has an interesting point. The protagonist “V” is trying to foment a mini-uprising, mini-chaos, mini-mayhem to provoke the dictatorial regime into a bloody counterattack on this mini-uprising. It is then the bloody counter-attack which would really provoke the really big uprising and change of system. Now, granted that second event did not happen in Hungary, but Orban successfully changed the… Read more »
Member

I have good news. Maybe just maybe some of the Fidesz fans are waking up! An acquaintance of mine from Hungary, who always voted Fidesz (and I think had a secret crush on Orban twenty years ago), told me that she would not vote for Orban again. I asked why not, and she told me that “Fidesz lied about Oszod, and likely they were behind all the mess in 2006!”
There is hope! Maybe people are waking up after all.

Lazarus
Guest

Do you remember when Janos Lazar (consigliere to Orban) told – among others – that Paks 2 had been settled with the EU?

And all the media reprinted the statement without any checking of this (or other) fact?

Well, it turns out that was – another – blatant lie by Janos Lazar.

http://cink.hu/megsem-szolt-a-kormany-a-bizottsagnak-paksrol-bar-ezt-1530462037?fb_action_ids=10152218462402622&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%5B1407962076129000%5D&action_type_map=%5B%22og.likes%22%5D&action_ref_map=%5B%5D

That said the EU people will – as usual – give a sh*t about the project, Lazar sees that correctly, so in the sense it is almost as if the EU had given its go ahead.

havelka
Guest

Looks like we have a winning candidate for the post of the Chairman of the Academy of Sciences. Arch-Fidesznik, arch-conservative and at best a mediocre scholar.

Funny story: when a student who was having an oral examination with Mr. Maroth was asked by the prof about where the student went to highschool answered that he went to AKG (an independent, famously liberal highschool) the prof answered: “nothing good ever came out of freedom”. True story.

http://magyarnarancs.hu/konyv/a_tudos_hatalom_-_maroth_miklos_klasszika-filologus_orientalista_palyakepe-64872

Mr. Paul
Guest
@ Lazarus People at cink.hu have famously horrible reading comprehension. They take a sentence “this investment project has not yet been notified to the Commission under article 41 of the Euratom treaty” and do not stop to think: is this sentence true if it was notified under article 42 c? Or was simply notified period. Then yes it is true it was not notified under 41. They try to sell the idea that the Commission has still no idea about Paks as of February 21. And they didn’t complain about this publicly? How come? Maybe the Commission really doesn’t know but as soon as they learn about it… CINK may be right but the “evidence” they present does not prove their claims. It is about the level of Rózsa Flores’s ideas that Gyurcsany leaked the Öszöd speech for sure. It may be true but not because of the “evidence”. “we just heard from the former editor-in-chief of Népszabadság that J. Zoltán Gál, undersecretary in charge of the prime minister’s office, approached him to ask whether he would be interested in an edited version of a terrific speech his “boss” delivered.” Anyone have an idea why the former editor-in-chief waited 8… Read more »
tappanch
Guest

MaZsiHiSz chairman Heisler:

“We have had enough of being reverential like [royal] subjects”

http://nol.hu/archivum/20140226-eleg_volt_az_alattvaloi_ahitatbol

Member

Dear Eva,

If Hungarian society were filled with intelligent people such as yourself, then Orban’s decision to release the “scandalous” documents would indeed backfire. However, the nation is populated with people whose critical-thinking capacity does not reach that of the average Fox News watcher in the US.

I recently told my Fidesz-voting fitness center manager that Orban was not a conservative in the Western European sense of the word. Rather, his policies frequently resemble Janos Kadar’s. I presented the evidence (nationalization, centralization, coercion). He agreed with everything I said, and then he looked at me like a Christian who had just been convinced that Jesus never died on the cross. “I think I need some different perspectives before I believe you,” he said.

In a system where schools discourage critical thinking and universities wink at plagiarists, people don’t like to make up their own minds. They are going to glance at the recently released documents and say “Gyurcsany is a liar and Bajnai is thief.” Then they will move on to other, more sedentary topics like ValoVilag.

tappanch
Guest

Victory report: “Employment has continued to rise”

http://www.ksh.hu/docs/hun/xftp/gyor/fog/fog21401.pdf

Behind the data:

December 2013 – December 2012,
they show a 121.7 thousand increase.

But of the increase, exactly 91.7 thousand are “fostered” workers (recipients of poor aid on forced labor).

The number of workers abroad who are counted to improve the Hungarian statistics
have increased by 8 thousand from the October-December average in 2012 to 2013.

So domestic real employment have increased at MOST by 22 thousand (0.56%).
Most of the increase is in the state sector.

tappanch
Guest

Correction:

Change in employment – change in “fostered” workers – change in counted workers abroad.=

106.7* – 91.7* – 8** = 7.0

* Oct-Dec average ** Dec

tappanch
Guest

Orban’s only promise in 2010 was the 1 million new workplace in 10 years.

The net increase without the “fostered” workers was about 100,000 instead of the pro-rated 400,000 in the last 4 years.

If you subtract the workers abroad that are included in the Hungarian statistics, the net increase domestically was zero or negative.

petofi
Guest
@Seal Driver “In a system where schools discourage critical thinking and universities wink at plagiarists, people don’t like to make up their own minds. They are going to glance at the recently released documents and say “Gyurcsany is a liar and Bajnai is thief.” Then they will move on to other, more sedentary topics like ValoVilag.” Of course, you couldn’t be more right. In Hungary, a system has been set up where coercion works–it frightens the sheep-like hordes–and moreover, if need be, the blessings of the church and its own vast coercive powers back up the Orban/Fidesz line. To expect the hapless, meek, mentally-challenged, hog-tied, average, Hungarian to oppose that union is well beyond the possible. In fact, the basis of Kafka’s world (in his writings) has been achieved in Hungary. Who originated that success–in my opinion the Russians had a lot to do with it–is yet to be conclusively established. But that’s what we have now. To put this in perspective, any reasonable society would have had plenty–Paks, the Azeri axe-murderer, the theft of pension moneys, the nature of parliamentary activity–to know that the present state of affairs could only lead to disaster; and requires the immediate cessation of… Read more »
Guest

Ukraine disbands its Berkut riot police which is held responsible for the deaths of dozens of protesters. Preventive disbandment of similar units in Hungarian ought to be considered.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/bd1ff8b2-9ec1-11e3-a48e-00144feab7de.html#axzz2uQWxv5t0

Guest

Previous comment read …in Hungary…

Uj Magyar EEEsz
Guest

Besides this blog, Akos Kertesz should be a compulsory reading.

A broad section of Hungarians, willing servant type supporters of Horthy, Rakosi, Kadar, Orban, have no relearn the concept of decency.

My favorite candidates for relearning:

Peter Boross, Dr.Lajos Papp, Zsolt Bayer……

http://hetediksor.hu/2010/04/01/bolondok_napja_24/

Member
Seal Driver : In a system where schools discourage critical thinking and universities wink at plagiarists, people don’t like to make up their own minds. They are going to glance at the recently released documents and say “Gyurcsany is a liar and Bajnai is thief.” Then they will move on to other, more sedentary topics like ValoVilag. I agree with you very much. Mr. Paul : @ Lazarus People at cink.hu have famously horrible reading comprehension. They take a sentence “this investment project has not yet been notified to the Commission under article 41 of the Euratom treaty” and do not stop to think: is this sentence true if it was notified under article 42 c? Or was simply notified period. Then yes it is true it was not notified under 41. They try to sell the idea that the Commission has still no idea about Paks as of February 21. And they didn’t complain about this publicly? How come? Maybe the Commission really doesn’t know but as soon as they learn about it… CINK may be right but the “evidence” they present does not prove their claims. It is about the level of Rózsa Flores’s ideas that Gyurcsany leaked… Read more »
Guest

Eva S. Balogh :

Jean P :
Ukraine disbands its Berkut riot police which is held responsible for the deaths of dozens of protesters. Preventive disbandment of similar units in Hungarian ought to be considered.
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/bd1ff8b2-9ec1-11e3-a48e-00144feab7de.html#axzz2uQWxv5t0

Are your thinking of TEK?

All of them.

Member

Some1 :
I have good news. Maybe just maybe some of the Fidesz fans are waking up! An acquaintance of mine from Hungary, who always voted Fidesz (and I think had a secret crush on Orban twenty years ago), told me that she would not vote for Orban again. I asked why not, and she told me that “Fidesz lied about Oszod, and likely they were behind all the mess in 2006!”
There is hope! Maybe people are waking up after all.

Well, that’s one point of light. Only 9,999,999 to go.

buddy
Guest

If anyone finds Felcsút Mayor Mészáros’ pigs, please contact HVG. They appear to be missing :((

http://hvg.hu/itthon/20140226_Meszaros_Lorinc_disznok

I hope they find them soon!

An
Guest

buddy :
If anyone finds Felcsút Mayor Mészáros’ pigs, please contact HVG. They appear to be missing :((
http://hvg.hu/itthon/20140226_Meszaros_Lorinc_disznok
I hope they find them soon!

Some journalists are looking for the pigs after Meszaros (Orban’s Felcsut buddy) received a 7.4 million forint state subsidy for raising pigs . The journalists don’t seem to find the pigs… even if they had already been slaughtered, there is no paper trail showing that they ever existed.

tappanch
Guest

It is fun to playing around with the seat calculator at

http://www.valasztasirendszer.hu/mandatum/

My estimate was the following

Domestic participation: 5.79 million
Foreign participation 0.23 million

Domestic vote for party:

Democratic opposition: 42%
Fidesz: 39%
Jobbik: 18%
LMP: 1%

Foreign vote:
Fidesz 79%
Jobbik: 18%
Democratic opposition: 3%

Result:
Democratic opposition: 93 seats
Fidesz: 86 seats
Jobbik: 20 seats

I have no doubt that in a situation like this there will be
a Fidesz-Jobbik coalition.

tappanch
Guest

buddy :
If anyone finds Felcsút Mayor Mészáros’ pigs, please contact HVG. They appear to be missing :((
http://hvg.hu/itthon/20140226_Meszaros_Lorinc_disznok
I hope they find them soon!

Snout of the pigberg…

tappanch
Guest

it is fun to play around …