The manifesto of the Democratic Round Table (DEKA), March 15, 2015

You may recall that on January 15 four well-known people who were concerned with the state of democracy in Hungary organized a civic organization called the Democratic Round Table. Their plan was to lay the groundwork for a regime change. This is the manifesto they published today.

* * *

WHAT THE DEMOCRATIC ROUND TABLE WANTS FOR THE CITIZENS OF THE REPUBLIC OF HUNGARY

  1. A constitutional and democratic republic.
    The restoration of constitutional order, the rule of law and legal certainty.

 

  1. Dignity for all.
    The abolition of all overt and covert discrimination.
    The abolition of the humiliation and social exclusion of the Roma.

 

  1. A livelihood befitting a human being. A fair day’s wage for a fair day’s work.
    A guaranteed basic social income that is sufficient to satisfy essential needs.
    Housing security.

 

  1. Fundamental rights for all.
    An independent media serving the public.
    Freedom to choose one’s way of life.

 

  1. A transparent and corruption-free public life.
    Full unhindered disclosure of public matters.
    An unbiased voting system granting voters the right to participate in free and unrigged elections.

 

  1. Protection of property and fair competition.
    Freedom to conduct private and community business.

 

  1. Independence and freedom of education and culture.
    Academic freedom and autonomy for schools and education.
    Independent and free functioning of culture, arts, sciences and civil society organisations.

 

  1. Fairness and the mitigation of inequalities.
    General and proportionate distribution of the burden of tax. A progressive tax regime.
    Protection of vulnerable social groups, the poor and the socially excluded.

 

  1. A future offering equal opportunities to all children.
    Empowering services for young children.
    Unsegregated basic education of good quality for all children. Free-of-charge secondary education. A state-of-the art vocational and higher education system.

 

  1. Decent health care for all.
    Access for all to (publicly financed) community health care of appropriate quality.

 

  1. Sustainable development for the generations of today and tomorrow.
    Protection of our natural and cultural heritage and environment. Support for nature- and environmentally-friendly solutions.

 

  1. A cohesive and inclusive Hungary alongside a commitment to European integration.
    The condemnation of all forms of exclusion whether social, ethnic, economic, religious or political. International co-operation in accordance with EU norms with countries both near and far.
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Ron
Guest

Okay. They are talking about rights.

And what about duties and obligations for these citizen, and how and when do they want to reach their goals.?

Geza Kmetty
Guest

This what I have been waiting for! But how many will read it, understand it and support it in Hungary??? That is the question!

Guest
A wonderful manifesto that would “sell” real well in Canada or Australia. I am afraid however, that there is no “market” in Hungary for these ideas. The deepest of deep Balkan psychology and mentality of even the average “educated” Hungarian is generations upon generations upon generations away from even a minimal comprehension of what the words of this manifesto really mean, not to mention how in heaven’s name these words could actually be implemented in practice in a place like Hungary. As to Hungarian “education,” Jobbik, Fidesz, LMP, etc. etc. and etc. are full of so-called law and humanities graduates, the “brilliant” cream of the crop of the Hungarian higher education system. Though one might observe that the average “educated” person in Hungary is not that far behind these geniuses in willful ethical ignorance and even knowing moral turpitude in both large things and small. Utterly pathetic. The blind leading the sightless, with both being inordinately proud of being ignorant of what the world actually looks like. In my humblest opinion, DEKA is embarked on a hopeless, Quixotic enterprise, with no chance whatsoever of even the most minuscule success. Not in this generation, not in the next, not in the… Read more »
googly
Guest

Mike Balint,

I imagine that the reason they released the manifesto today is to link it to the 12 points of the revolution which we celebrated today. Some of the manifesto’s demands are very close to some of the 12 points, so I’m sure that if Hungarians 150 years ago could understand these concepts well enough to fight and die for them, Hungarians of today are sufficiently sophisticated to comprehend them.

Your bigotry and blind hatred seems to grow by the hour. I’m guessing that this is not good for your health. You would be better off if you stopped visiting this blog.

jfl
Guest

Mr.Balint is disapointed with the huns and i understand why. Insulting him doesnt help but is what hungarians do when someone has a different opinion! reading ur last paragraph shows he is not far from the truth!!!

googly
Guest
jfl, If pointing out someone’s bigotry and blind hatred is insulting, that’s not my fault. If you disagree that he is displaying bigotry and blind hatred towards an entire national group, then that’s something we can debate, using his words in the preceding comment and other places. As far as the advice to stop reading the blog, that is something he sought himself from the readers of this blog in an earlier comment, and I have now found the time to reply to him. I am actually being sincere in this advice, since he doesn’t add anything positive to the discussion, and has admitted that he is quite elderly. I don’t like to see people drive themselves into an early grave, especially in this matter. He has made it clear over and over again that he considers all non-Jewish Hungarians to possess a “deep Balkan psychology and mentality”, even the “average ‘educated’ Hungarian” (note how he puts the word “educated” in quotes, as if Hungarians can’t be educated), and that they are “generations upon generations upon generations away from even a minimal comprehension of” understanding liberal democracy. Not just some of them, but, according to him, virtually all of them.… Read more »
Guest

@googly
March 15, 2015 at 5:18 pm

And nuts to you too.

googly
Guest

I’m just thinking of your health – there’s no reason to become hostile and use profanity. Let’s keep this civil.

ambator
Guest

My Dear Mr. Balint:

Your disgusting rant, devoid of any sober reason may have disregarded at least two somewhat important consideration.
One; that education doesn’t provide character, but mere knowledge, if that, or at best the ability to find that is lacking in knowledge. And
Two; that major popular movements are not executed by the educated elites, but by the unwashed masses. We are presently et the verge of that point coming to be proven again.
However, once the upheaval settles, then the time of these manifestoes is coming, then they are indispensable.

Guest

@ambator
March 15, 2015 at 6:57 pm

With respect, you have no idea what you are talking about.

What DEKA has come out with is a bit of high falutin’ sloganeering that in the Hungary of today is just so much hot air. Not worth tuppence.

In order to restore the Republic, what is needed is very simply to gain a two thirds majority in the Hungarian Parliament, so as to be able throw out the constitution concocted by the Vajda of Hungary and his Mafiosi, and then bring back the constitution of the Republic of Hungary in its entirety, as it was before 2010.

I don’t see how sloganeering in the form of a high-minded manifesto issued by a handful of self-important, far left-wing intellectuals from Budapest is ever going to achieve that, in the Hungary of today.

But then of course I am a person of extremely limited intelligence, capable only of disgusting rants and hatred of Hungarians, who is not in possession of the arcane knowledge you appear to have about likely political developments in Hungary in the foreseeable future.

Alex Kuli
Guest

Mike Balint – You hit the nail on the head.

tappanch
Guest

Newly decorated by the Orbanian State:

Károly Szász (as a former chairman of the Hungarian equivalent of SEC, he is responsible for the recent scandals involving three brokerages)

Gyula Tellér (Orban’s Suslov)

Sándor Csányi (oligarch, chairman of the largest commercial bank, chairman of the Soccer Association)

Péter Paczolay (figleaf, former chairman of the Constitutional Court, which & who did not object to the cancellation of the Constitution)

Ilona Pálffy (chair of the National Election Office, for achieving the 2/3 majority in the 2014 election 🙂 )
She is the serving head of an allegedly independent body, but she accepted the award of the government !

http://444.hu/2015/03/15/de-szasz-karoly-az-utolag-megdicsoult-pszaf-elnok-sem-maradt-allami-dij-nelkul/

Vaud
Guest

Ilona Palffy used to be chief secretary of the Constitutional Court starting under chief judge Mihaly Bihari (who used to be a Socialist MP but moved to serve Fidesz).

I would be interesting to know how she ended up in this position (a kind of administrative head acting as a clearinghouse for all information) in 2000, who called her in? Palffy used to play in important role as a liaison between Fidesz and the court already in 2000 and especially after 2002 when Orban was in opposition and when the court moved decisively to become pro-Fidesz.

Her CV is unclear about her activities prior to 1990, she says she spent time in various local council jobs.

I suspect she also worked(works) for the security services. Orban loves these people and now they get the medals for loyalty.

HiBoM
Guest

A typically pointless piece of masturbation from a self-appointed Hungarian intellectual elite that makes them feel good about themselves but is otherwise just pointless gesturing. “A fair day’s wages for a fair day’s work” is fine in principal but as a slogan, meaningless (other thank making the speaker feel morally superior). What is needed is an outline how this can be achieved in the real world of markets, deficits, lack of education etc etc…

Nauseating

ambator
Guest

HiBoM,

It is not more nauseating than the idiotic demand that wants everything at once, whereas it was the result of two month’s work to hammer out. The method and strategy of hammering out the implementation is going to be even harder and longer. It’s goal is not to please simpletons, but to provide the sound grounding on which a new republic can reliably stand.

Guest

@ambator
March 15, 2015 at 6:45 pm

Who said anything about “the idiotic demand that wants everything at once”?

In my humblest opinion, it would take years and years and years of back-breaking and heart breaking work at grass roots level in Hungarian society to get within even shouting distance of the two thirds parliamentary majority needed to restore the republican constitution; and without achieving that, nothing can or will change for the better in Hungary.

And if this manifesto was indeed “the result of two month’s work to hammer out”, then this ‘crem de la crem’ of the far left-wing intellectual elite of Budapest must be pretty slow on the uptake; what they have produced, with the best of intentions of course, is a nice set of left-liberal ideals that could potentially guide policy direction, which however a couple of competent people could have drawn up in at most three hours over coffee in one comfortable afternoon session.

Again, you don’t seem to have the foggiest what you are talking about.

Me, I am of course merely a person of low intelligence only capable of disgusting rants and a hatred for Hungarians.

petofi
Guest

Oh my, it really is easy to hate Hungarians as per their recent doings and allegiances…But really, Hungarians are monster poseurs–a bad piece of writing by Moliere who was probably suffering from indigestion when he did it!

If only Hungarians weren’t so blindly proud of their idiocies, indiscretions, and self-delusions…

spectator
Guest

“WHAT THE DEMOCRATIC ROUND TABLE WANTS FOR THE CITIZENS OF THE REPUBLIC OF HUNGARY”

Very nice, indeed.
Except that there is no “Republic of Hungary”, only “Hungary” – according to the miserable excuse for Constitution, called “Fundamental Law” over there anyway.

From here on I would start over with this manifesto, at least to be taken seriously.

No, boys and girls, I’m not (only) splitting hair here, this question must be addressed clearly and should be part of point one.

googly
Guest

I think that’s exactly their point, that the republic should be restored, and organised along these principles. I don’t have a problem with it, and it could form the basis of a constitution after the crooks have been kicked out of government (hopefully in my lifetime).

spectator
Guest

Yes, it exactly as you said: the republic shall be restored!

And one good reason, why should you guessing to get a message right, directly at first sight?

They still don’t get it: in order to have a support of the ‘people’, the people must understand the clear message, without the possibility for alternative interpretation.
With all due respect I don’t agree with you that it good as it is.

When “the whole point” must be pointed out there is something isn’t good enough, sorry.

googly
Guest

“When ‘the whole point’ must be pointed out there is something isn’t good enough, sorry.”

I have great respect for you, spectator, but in this regard I disagree. I believe it is quite clear to almost everyone here in Hungary who cares about the system of government we use what is meant by that line in the manifesto, and just because you didn’t understand it right away does not mean that it is useless. Its subtlety is part of its strength. We could use some sober, rational thinking here, if only as a basis to work on. There is a place, too, for screaming and attacking, but without cooler heads we will just descend into civil war. We hold the moral high ground, eventually it will become useful, unless we abandon it and wade entirely into the muck.

This document can (thought probably will not) serve as a basis for our eventual return to democracy, just as the 12 points served as a basis for our eventual denouement with the Habsburgs, a generation after they started a revolution.

spectator
Guest
Thank you for the kind words, I mean it. Still I’d like to point out that I never said that I don’t understand, I’d tried to call attention to the fact, if something intended to communicate to the wide public must be absolutely clear and free from alternative interpretations. In my opinion a common mistake of the Hungarian political and cultural elite that they taking as given that everyone is on the same wavelength, has the same cultural backgrund and has the same ability of comprehension as they themselves. Sadly, it isn’t the case. I agree, it much harder to formulate to aunt Bess, the vicar and the engineer in one sentence, but this problem must be addressed in order to have the desired effect. This is a challenge, a task to a skilled communicator, no doubt. The answer definitely is not the Orbanian way, to go “down” to a fictional “cozy countryside” flavoured nonsense, but to put it in clear, easy to digest, yet completely adequate context. Never mind, though. At the main time I realised, probably it seems that I trying to lessen the professionals, – it’s as far from my intentions as it gets. However, my feeling… Read more »
tappanch
Guest

Orban claimed in his speech that a famous phrase in Lincoln’s Gettysburg address came from Kossuth. This could be the case, but the phrase goes back to the prologue of the Wycliffe Bible in the 14th century.

1384 (General Prologue)
“This Bible is for the Government of the People, by the People, and for the People”

Kossuth, 1852, February 7 (in front of the Ohio legislature) :
“The spirit of our age is Democracy. — All for the people, and all by the people. Nothing about the people, without the people. That is Democracy, and that is the ruling tendency of our age.”

Lincoln, 1863, November 19 (in Gettysburg):
“… we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.”

Sources:
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_Wycliffe
Hibiscus Masonic Review – 3-2010
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gettysburg_Address

Lincoln’s ordering seems to come straight from Wycliffe and not from Kossuth

tappanch
Guest

Prepositions:

Wycliffe: of, by, for
Kossuth: for, by, about, not without
Lincoln: of, by, for

tappanch
Guest

Senator Daniel Webster, 1830, January 26:

federal government is “made for the people, made by the people, and answerable to the people”

Webster: for, by, to

tappanch
Guest

Kossuth’s eloquence fights the monster of ‘crown, throne and altar’, while the defeated French Marianne looks on with hope in her eyes (US, 1852)
comment image

Webber
Guest

And what were the sources of Kossuth’s ideas/eloquence? All speakers borrow from past speakers.
I’m guessing classic authors – something absorbed from Latin lessons.

petofi
Guest

A fine analyses. Of course, Lincoln was a constant bible reader…

petofi
Guest

Total nonsense—self-delusional generalities.

How about some specifics such as:

a) Guaranteed job security for government personnel regardless of election results;

b) Seperation of the Judicial and Executive branch of government…extension of supreme court service to end of life or debility;

3) A PROBITY CLAUSE for all high echelon personnel in government, agreeing to jail penalty, and severe monetary penalty for defrauding the public purse. No ownership of a high level government person is to be protected–that means that family property and money would be at risk, too.

etc. etc.

googly
Guest

Those can be added during a constitutional convention. Do you disagree with the points made in the manifesto?

petofi
Guest

‘Orban and the Happy Hungarian’…should be a new Opera!
Imagine suggesting that Lincoln read Kossuth: the sublime consulting the ridiculous.

HAJRA MAGYAROK!

SOMETHING MORE ALL HUNGARIANS CAN BE PROUD OF…

Celebrating an event 167 years ago.
If those stern-looking Honkies attending the speeches would have the wit to know what downhill road the country has travelled since!

petofi
Guest

When poor Szecsenyi realized how much he was doing, and for whom…he went crazy.

petofi
Guest

All this Kossuth nonsense. People should pay attention to the words of the ditty, “Kossuth azt uzente…”, and pick up on the inherent mockery of the great K.

Guest
And may I add to my three comments above (March 15, 3.08pm, 11.21pm and 11.48pm), that: The DEKA manifesto is essentially a “motherhood and apple pie” declaration by a handful of Budapest left-liberals; and who wouldn’t agree with motherhood and apple pie? If it was to indeed lead to a robust, nationwide political organization with meticulous, persistent and consistent application of clever, workable strategies and tactics in every village, town and district to ultimately seize a two thirds parliamentary majority with which to reverse the constitutional putsch by the Vajda of Hungary and his Mafiosi, then I would (have to!) say, in retrospect, that yes, the issuance of this manifesto was indeed timely and appropriate. But I would be just about prepared to eat my hat if that miraculous event did indeed come to pass. Does anyone in his right mind believe that a handful of left-liberal intellectuals (= Jews & other “idegenlelkű” persons of “un-Hungarian” minds and souls) from Budapest would have the patience, wherewithal, common sense, organizational ability, mental and physical strength, and the capacity to withstand and effectively counteract continuous massive sabotage by the masters of spin in the Fidesz/KDNP/Jobbik/LMP conglomeration, that would be as inevitable as… Read more »
googly
Guest

Your comment had a good start, for a change – I salute that!

Unfortunately, you don’t seem to know your history. Every democratic country started out as an uneducated rabble, and some have backslid (Even Rome was a democracy of sorts, once). Hungary has been working on creating a democracy for over 150 years now, but has been prevented from creating one during most of that time. I wonder if you are familiar with Australian history, which includes British history, and how long it took for democracy to flourish there. Even now, after decades of democracy, your compatriots insist on electing people like Tony Abbott as your leader. I wonder why you can’t see your hypocrisy?

Albrecht Neumerker
Guest

Yes, pilgrims. “There was a cry at night. “

Guest

@Mike Balint
March 16, 2015 at 3:47 am
(continued:)

And may I say that I would be more than happy to eat my hat in the unlikely event of a two thirds parliamentary majority ultimately eventuating from the DEKA manifesto.

It would make me very proud and very happy with the country of my birth, even though as a Jew, I am neither a “tősgyökeres” (true-born?) Hungarian nor a left-liberal.

And it would indeed be very nice for once to feel proud of one’s Hungarian origins (if only as a Hungarian Jew who never lost his Hungarian accent in any of the languages he uses), instead of it being the embarrassment and liability of being inescapably linked, by virtue of one’s birthplace and accent, to a bunch of Balkan retards, losers, sharpsters and Mafiosi.

petofi
Guest

Hajra, Mikey!
Love that righteous indignation.
And for a person who lives far afield, the roots of Hungary still have a firm hold.
All you ‘angerous’ people–don’t think that us highly critical ‘others’ wouldn’t like
to have a Hungary that is law-abiding and committed to western principles, except that we see how far that simple achievement is from the mainstream of Hungarian
thought and behaviour of today.

Now let me state this clearly because many have not taken my point: it’s not solely
a problem of politicians; it’s a problem of the society and its norms. And for that to be righted, one of has to face down the monster influence of the Catholic Church.

Guest
@petofi March 16, 2015 at 6:57 am Hi P.! Yes, the government, governance and political leadership of Hungary are merely symptoms. The actual causes lie much deeper, in the hearts and minds of Hungarians as a community, and this is what those who take my comments about Hungary and Hungarians as personal insults (like googly and ambator above) never seem to comprehend or willing to face up to. Hungary is a very sick society, its people suffering from a kind of communal mental sickness or comprehensive communal retardation, and under the circumstances it is entirely unsurprising that they put in power a gang of mentally sick Mafiosi with a deranged Vajda as their Don. And yes, historically the Hungarian Catholic Church bears much of the blame for this, though the Presbyterians/Calvinists (Reformátusok) and Lutherans (Evangélikusok) were never far behind the Catholics in keeping Hungarians ignorant, retarded, stupefied and compliant. From a Jewish point of view, it were of course the Churches that were historically the primary instigators of Judeophobia among the masses of Hungarians, particularly among the Christian intelligentsia and the declassé gentry, that ultimately mutated into non-religious racial antisemitism in the second half of the 19th century, and like… Read more »
Bitstream Fractalized
Guest

Sounds like a copy of Jobbik’s program.

tappanch
Guest

@ Dear Eva,

“I recall a book published shortly after Kossuth’s visit to the United States which had the text of the speeches he made while here.”

I have found the book.

Select Speeches of Kossuth, 1854
https://archive.org/download/selectspeechesk00kossgoog/selectspeechesk00kossgoog.pdf

Reply inside chapter #27 in Columbus Ohio in February 1852 starts on page 211.
The relevant sentences are on the top of page 212.

tappanch
Guest

“The spirit of our age is Democracy.”
[ the “people” sentences follow, quoted above]

“To this spirit is opposed the principle of Despotism […] degrading nations […] to the conditions of tools subservient to the authority of ambition.”

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