The Christian, national government’s heart is merciful: Orbán in Strasbourg

I just finished listening to the hearing on “The Future of U.S-Hungary Relations” organized by the Subcommittee on Europe, Eurasia, and Emerging Threats. I’m not yet ready to comment on it, except to say that it was an excellent forum for the Republicans to criticize the Obama administration’s foreign policy and to applaud Viktor Orbán.

Hungary was also the topic of another debate today, this time in Strasbourg in the plenary session of the European Parliament. It was only yesterday that Viktor Orbán announced his intention to attend in order to defend Hungary.

Before his appearance in the chamber, he gave a press conference in which he marshaled his usual arguments for a discussion on capital punishment, which may last a whole decade. I guess he is ready to fight at least ten years to convince the members of the European Union to reinstate the death penalty. As for immigration, Orbán explained the reasons for Hungary’s refusal even to entertain the idea of allowing immigrants inside the country. Some countries, he said (presumably Great Britain, France, and perhaps the Netherlands), had been colonial powers and as such are accustomed to multiculturalism. Hungary, on the other hand, was never a colonial power, and therefore for Hungarians multiculturalism is a foreign idea. When I heard this, I broke out in laughter. Hungary for centuries and centuries was a multinational state in which half of the population was non-Hungarian. The country’s population was made up of Romanians, Slovaks, Serbs, Ruthenians, Germans, Slovenes, Yiddish-speaking Jews, Croats, shall I continue? Didn’t each of these groups have its own culture? Weren’t the people of Austria-Hungary accustomed to living side by side with people of different cultures? In fact, as far as its mixture of nationalities was concerned, Austria-Hungary was something of a mini-European Union. I assume, however, that for Orbán these cultural differences were minor. After all, most of the country’s citizens were steeped in the Judaeo-Christian tradition and virtually all of them were white. Not like the “barbarians at the gate” of Hungary now.

The debate started with a short speech by Frans Timmermans, who was very critical of Orbán’s use of scare tactics as far as immigrants and refugees are concerned. If Hungary does not abide by the constitution of the European Union, the European Commission will not hesitate to use sanctions that are at its disposal as spelled out in Article II of the EU Constitution. Fidesz MEP Mrs. Pelcz, née Ildikó Gáll, interpreted Timmermans’s words as a threat and bitterly complained about restrictions placed on the right to open discussion about certain subjects. Most of the representatives who spoke during the debate preceding Orbán’s speech argued against the idea of bringing up the subject, which they consider to be one of the fundamental values of the Union. As Sophia in ‘t Veld, a liberal MEP, said, such a debate would be a short one: “we condemn it, the European Union condemns it. That’s it.” Throwing the issue of capital punishment into the debate was intended to divert attention away from the main issue, the “national consultation” on immigration, which might be at odds with the fundamental values of the European Union. During the debate, the “national consultation” was described as a kind of “poisoning of the minds,” which some considered outright shocking. There was only one man who tried to defend Viktor Orbán–Manfred Weber of the European People’s Party, although his defense was feeble. After praising the great economic achievements of the Hungarian government, the only thing he could muster in Orbán’s defense was that talking about immigration is appropriate because two-thirds of the immigrants are turned away.

Photo by Vincent Kessler / Reuters

Photo by Vincent Kessler / Reuters

Then came Orbán, who as usual started on an ironic note. He found it flattering that the members of the European Parliament were devoting a lengthy discussion to the Hungarian situation. There could be reasons for such a discussion in the European Parliament–for example, the great Hungarian successes of late, but alas, he said, this is not the reason he has to be in Strasbourg. He was pleased to hear that the European Union is interested in order, public safety, and immigration, but these problems are not Hungarian problems. They are European problems. The only reason that Hungary is the target is because “Hungarians like straight talk, [they] don’t like babble and equivocation,” said the man who is the master of double talk. Hungarians will openly say what they want: “Europe should remain European, and we want to keep Magyarország magyar.” For those readers who don’t know Hungarian, “Magyarország” means “Hungary.” So, Hungary should remain ethnically pure. If we take Viktor Orbán at his word, no foreigner, regardless of where he comes from, is welcome in Hungary. Otherwise, he called the European Union’s proposal on a quota system to deal with those who receive political asylum “absurd, close to madness.” Hungarians themselves will decide what to do with their illegal immigrants.

Finally, he closed his five-minute speech by arguing for a discussion about the death penalty, the prohibition of which is “after all not carved in stone by the gods.” After Orbán finished his speech, Martin Schulz, the president of the parliament, replied with a single sentence: “but there is such a divine commandment as ‘You shall not murder.'” Although the debate continued, this was best possible answer to this great Christian who only a few minutes earlier explained that his “government is Christian and national, [in whose] heart there is mercy.”

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exTor
Guest
Hungary is so white. I am always surprised to see a black person here. The other day at Tesco I saw a black woman pushing a pram. I biked up to her and started a conversation in the usual way: “Do you speak English?” As we proceeded to the busstop I learned that she met her husband-to-be, who is Hungarian, in Kenya. She is studying Hungarian, which she finds difficult, at once-a-week classes. She said, replying to my question, that she has not experienced anything negative due to her color. I’m always suspicious when people deny personal experience with racism. I had a black girlfriend in Toronto, where she is now a firefighter. Jacquie, whose family is from Nova Scotia, said she had never experienced racism. It’s interesting. Jacquie and I changed jobs. I used to be a firefighter in Toronto, where my brother still works as one. Also interestingly, women are not allowed to be firefighters in Hungary. I learned this from male firefighters here. A Jewish friend where we both pump iron says that he has never experienced antisemitism, which may be true for him, because he’s white and he looks like everybody else. Romas stand out. Blacks… Read more »
Alex Kuli
Guest

What dark-skinned people don’t experience in Hungary is overt racism, which would be unacceptable. But in private, people are not afraid to express profound prejudice. A while back a twentysomething cafe owner in Budapest bragged to me about how he had overcharged a couple of dark-skinned guests and then hurried them out of his establishment. More recently, a friend of mine from southern Africa made a reservation at a Budapest restaurant for a group that was mostly African. When they arrived, the waiters told them the eatery was completely full and that they did not take reservations. My friend then whipped out her smartphone and showed them the confirmation email she had received from the restaurant’s manager. They ultimately let the group in, but I wonder if the incident didn’t spoil their appetites.

Many Hungarians say racism and xenophobia does not exist in their country, except among a few scattered extremists. My only explanation is, their mindset is so self-evidently kirekeszto that they don’t realize a problem exists.

Elektrone Motyo
Guest

Hahh, OK, so if you are black and the waiter says that the restaurant is full is racism. Getting the table after doublechecking the reservation is racism. Well, life is full of racist traps my friend. Sorry, it is ridiculous, what you are writing there.

Guest

Please, you idiotic troll, stay away from here!
On the other hand you are a good example of what’s wrong in Hungary …

googly
Guest

Elektrone Motyo,

For the benefit of anyone who reads what you wrote and takes it at face value, I will point out that the obvious reason the waiter only changed his/her story after being shown the email is that, just like everyday practice in Hungary, the sight of darker-skinned people caused the waiter to “forget” that a reservation was made. I have witnessed many times blatant discrimination against dark-skinned foreigners, even those who speak Hungarian. It’s astonishing how quickly and easily shopkeepers in the most tolerant, foreigner-friendly parts of Hungary will try to take advantage of anyone who is not “white”, though some of them still try to take advantage of the white foreigners who don’t speak Hungarian. The embarrassing (to honorable Hungarians) willingness to take advantage of tourists has drastically lessened in the past 20 years, but the racist double-standard has grown, in my experience. There were even some racist attacks a few years ago, but I haven’t heard of any recently. Maybe there’s hope.

exTor
Guest

Lest there be no misunderstanding, Alex Kuli, did your friends from southern Africa present themselves at the restaurant-in-question as having made reservations that had already been processed/accepted?

It might be argued that the restaurant employee who had made the ‘full’ claim was merely taking into account the reality of reservations and diners.

I presume that the restaurant-in-question is perhaps upscale and one where some employees [waitstaffers] speak some English. Could this incident be nothing more than an honest miscommunication?

Perhaps the waiter’s comment reflected the reality as the waiter knew it to be, namely that all the tables had been spoken for, not knowing that the waiter was speaking to one of those who had already reserved.

My Jewish friend (who works out where I pump iron) works at a well-known restaurant [Trófea] at the west end of the Margit-híd here in Budapest district II. I’m going to ask for his take on the incident you described.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Webber
Guest

exTor :

It’s normal practice in some restaurants downtown in Budapest to put “reserved/foglalt” signs on all tables virtually all of the time, even when not a single table has been reserved. Then, if someone appears who doesn’t look “right” in whatever way, the waiter can say “sorry, we’re booked solid.”

That goes for people dressed inappropriately, or who have not bathed, but it can also go for people who are dark skinned, no matter how well they are dressed and groomed.

Generally, when I’ve stepped into such places, they always find a table for me. Often they say “take any you like – they’re all free.” There was one memorable exception when I was with a Roma woman who was, incidentally, very well dressed. She told me not to bother. I told her I always got a table at the place. She was right – they were miraculously booked solid just as we walked in. She then guided me to a restaurant where she had been before (and it was a fine restaurant).

I am not saying that all restaurants that have the “reserved” signs out are doing this, but I can say from experience that some of them are.

exTor
Guest

Should have started with “Lest there be a misunderstanding” and not with “… no misunderstanding”. Could also have started with “Just so there is no misunderstanding”, which is probably what I had in my head.

Well Webber, thanx for the headsup on certain ‘upscale’-restaurant practices. Quite disheartening. Given the widespread dislike of Roma in Hungary (and elsewhere), the ‘foglalt’ practice is probably well-practiced.

Public shaming may be a way to go nowadays. Social-media information is fast and effective. Perhaps if some aware person were to set up a website that would enumerate examples of such exclusions here, this odious practice and its practitioners could be exposed and limited. A TV exposé would be nice.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Guest

Of course the official reason for these foglalt signs is different:
They don’t want a table for six occupied by just two persons …
That’s what I’ve been told by several restaurant owners.

Even more OT:
We’ve never had problems there – even when taking our dog with us into a restaurant (which is probably unimaginable for the USA …)

That practice btw of putting reserved signs on every table was already common in “Communist” times – friends told me that as a capitalist foreigner you just had to show some Deutschmarks or Dollars – and you would immediately get any table you wanted …

petofi
Guest

@exTor

Your jewish friend must not be very jewish. Antisemitism is palpable countrywide.
Does your friend not feel antisemitism when the bikers ride around with signs like “Give Gaz!” with absolutely no attempt to stop them in Budapest?

Webber
Guest

I have to agree with Petofi. All my Jewish friends – even those who don’t stand out in any way – have mentioned comments they’ve heard, repeatedly, and in the most bizarre situations. The comments may not have been directed at them, personally – but they were hateful comments nonetheless. I’ve heard school children saying foul things about Jews and giggling (obviously they get that from home). One family I know took their child out of a certain school because of the comments he was hearing there (not directed at him, but painful), and because the teachers didn’t (or couldn’t) stop them.
Any Roma who says s/he hasn’t experienced racism is obviously obfuscating – perhaps even lying to him/herself as well; maybe as a defense strategy.

Webber
Guest

A Hungarian joke I heard about antisemitism that was going the rounds a couple of years ago:

“Is there much antisemitism in your village?”
“None, but we sure could use some!” (Nincs, de kéne)

I heard that a couple of times from different people over the course of 2011 or 2012. One told it a little bitterly, and sadly. Others obviously couldn’t have agreed more.

Alex Kuli
Guest

As far as I can recall, that joke was first told by comedienne Judit Hernadi on RTL Klub’s Heti Hetes show in 2001, back when it was still funny. She told it as a mockup of Orban’s ludicrous claim on state television that there was no antisemitism in Hungary, just antisemitic phenomena. (“Ma Magyarországon nincs antiszemitizmus. Antiszemita jelenségek vannak.”) Her version was “The prime minister says there is no antisemitism in Hungary. There’s plenty of demand for it, but none to be found.” (It sounds funnier in Hungarian.)

The joke needs to be understood in its original context. It is a shame if anti-Semites have hijacked it.

Galamus used to have a transcript of the whole M1 interview with Orban, but I can’t find it now.

spectator
Guest

Even worse, originally It is Géza Hofi from the eighties!
Then the point was “No, albeit there was demand for it” – (- pedig igény lenne rá…)
See, “good” ideas last!

Old Education
Guest

“Your jewish friend must not be very jewish.” You know nothing about the history of Hungarian Jewish people. There are oly around 50,000 “really” Jewish people in Hungary, mostly they live in Budapest. After WW2, the vast majority of the Jews of Budapest migrated to Israel or the USA, an other big number migrated after 1956.
There is a lot of semantical problem about the meaning of Jewish people in Hungary even for Jewish organizations. Religion or ethnicity or what. It is hard to tell their real number. There are around 250-300,000 people who is only partially Jewish. An interesting (somewhat ironical) story, Despite the ww2 events, the vast majority of the remaining Jews of Budapest married with traditional bourgeois
class of Buda (who are traditinally ethnic German families). IT was a very strong trend in Budapest after WW2.

There are a lot of good books about the history of Hungarian Jews. If you are interested about Jewish people of Hungary, I can send the titles of many intersting books , which were written by academic historians in USA UK and Israel in the 21th century.

Old Education
Guest

Dark skinned people are frequent amongst ethnic Hungarians with Serbian Croatian Romanian Jassic Cuman or Slovjak (means Eastern Slovak) ancestors.

Tchiko
Guest
“If the Obama administration is too stringent on Orban then Orban will decamp into Putin’s orbit”. This was the argument put forward by the Republicans as suggested by Orban’s people of course. How is this not a demand for an appeasement policy? Leave Orban alone or else he will be a Russian puppet in the EU and NATO. (Wait, isn’t he already? And isn’t the person who said this was already a Putin puppet within the Congress?) And it seems that Obama is letting Orban alone, appeases Orban for fear of losing an “ally” which would be a PR disaster. “Post-communist Hungary thinks future is with Russia and China after all, leaves NATO”. Obama and his administration apparently cannot learn from the past. Appeasement never, ever works and won’t this time either. Orban is Putin’s great friend already making billions from gas and nuclear deals, he cannot be any closer to Putin without applying for the membership in Putin’s new anti-EU organization. Anyway, the show was great, Orban could show in Budapest that he is not alone at all, he is supported by the mighty Republicans (this was a domestic show for his fans and it worked.) and whatever that… Read more »
buddy
Guest

I wrote this in a comment yesterday, but I guess it needs repeating for you. The US is not “appeasing” Hungary, because Hungary is not making any demands on the US.

The US, or any country outside of the EU for that matter, really has no scope to change things here. You might think that Hungary’s actions have an effect on the US, but in reality they do not. As long as Hungary remains committed to the defense alliance, there’s not much the US can really do anyway.

Webber
Guest

Amen!
What happens in Hungary really is irrelevant to the lives of most Americans. I might add, what happens in Europe in general seems irrelevant to many Americans — certainly to Americans on the W. Coast, who are geographically a bit closer to Japan than Europe.
A lot of Americans today – perhaps the majority (I don’t know) – think of Europe as a nice, if overpriced, place for a vacation. That’s about it.

Webber
Guest

As an afterthought – 60% of American exports went to Pacific rim countries in 2010 (haven’t found more recent data). The center of world trade has simply shifted east.
I have no idea what percentage of exports go to Europe, but once you figure in exports to all countries on the American continent, to Africa and the Mideast, I guess the figure is perhaps 20% (a wild guess)
Certainly Europe is still important in trade terms, but less important than ever in United States’ history. Hungary is a very small player on an increasingly unimportant board.
We are in a Pacific century.

István
Guest
The situation here in the Chicago metro area is different because of the large Central European populations particularly Polish, Ukrainian, and Serbian populations. Generationally even 2nd and 3rd generation American Central-European families have an interest in what is going on in Europe. The Hungarian ancestral population is now one of the smaller ones in the metro Chicago area. There is also no question of the social and political conservativism of the Central European population here. There is general revulsion at the legalization of same sex marriage, general opposition to aboriton rights, and disassociation with Jews from Central Europe. As I have said before PM Orban is very popular in the community here, but Russians are not popular in the least nor is Putin. Central Europeans in the Chicago area are generally extremely loyal Americans and many children from these families volunteered for military service in both Iraq and Afganistan. Let me add that a few weeks ago I saw a Hungarian at a cultural event wearing a tee shirt with the 25th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (Hungarian) logo on it. While that was a first for me, I doubt many knew what the logo was. I really should… Read more »
San
Guest
Orban’s system, its activities, its strategic goals clearly weaken NATO and EU (in fact the weakening of these organizations is Orban’s goal). To keep the EU and NATO strong and united, I would have thought was in the US’ interest. I may be wrong. Conversely, it would be in the US’ interest to nudge Orban to behave more like a real ally and committed member of these organizations. Orban’s interest is on the other hand to prolong “the game” and avoid these nudges and he apparently succeeds because (i) the Obama administration doesn’t get Orban/his system, (ii) it makes dumb conclusion like it’s better to be nice to Orban lest he becomes even more pro-Russian, and (iii) even if it would get Orban the Obama administration is fundamentally meek and timid on global issues (which Obama wants to compensate/obfuscate with throwing bombs by drones on Yemen or Afghanistan). I agree that the pacific rim is more important and will be more important going forward, but exactly the EU could be a potential US ally in the new era (which is why the UK is being criticized by the US for its withdrawal from the international scene and cutting the funding/size… Read more »
Webber
Guest

Everyone knows that one.
To go further with it, it’s just possible that in Washington they think the Hungarian nail is long lost (or is in a Russian horse’s shoe) and they’ve not only got another nail in its place, they’ve got other horses lined up and shod.
Here’s another one for you – throwing good money after bad.
You see, there comes a point when a wise man will give up on his investment/partner/whatever.
We may have come to that point with Hungary. If the Hungarian government contributes, great. If not – no surprise. Who cares?
What more could the American government do, than raise objections, ban certain Hungarians from visiting the US, express reservations? It has done all that, to no avail. Surely it is time to give up.

buddy
Guest

I do think you make some good points here, San, especially with this comment: “Orban’s system, its activities, its strategic goals clearly weaken NATO and EU (in fact the weakening of these organizations is Orban’s goal).”

Unfortunately, nobody on the panel yesterday was able to make the case for this convincingly. (Though to be fair, they weren’t exactly given a fair shot to do so with Rohrabacher.)

Guest

“To keep the EU and NATO strong and united, I would have thought was in the US’ interest. I may be wrong.”

You are partially wrong. The US loves NATO and gets goose pimples from EU.

Guest

Not too much OT:
To rephrase what Webber wrote.

A lot of Europeans in the EU today – perhaps the majority (I don’t know) – think of Hungary as a nice and still really cheap place for a vacation. That’s about it.

Though I have to admit I often get asked by my intellectual friends:
Is Fidesz really such a right wing loonie party with their ideas about foreigners, LGBT and the death penalty? They all read the SPIEGEL etc so they know about the crazy world of Viktor Orbán …

Webber
Guest

In addition to Jews and Christians of many denominations, Hungary had something to do with quite a lot of Muslims as well. Before WWI Bosnia was, after all, a condominium, jointly run by Hungary and Austria. Not a few Bosnian Muslims stayed in, or regularly visited Hungary – and for anyone who doubts that, I recommend the following excellent little-known article: Dankó Imre, “A Bosnyák (A századforduló egyik jellegzetes vándorárusa)”, Múzeumi Kurír, 40: 4 (Dec. 1982).
So, if Orbán want’s to reject multiculturalism, he is doing nothing less than reaffirming Trianon. And if he wants to shut down borders to outsiders, he is re-introducing communist era practices.

Reality Check
Guest

I had this same thought yesterday when I heard about his “Hungary for Hungarians” statement. How does he reconcile the anti-multiculturalism impact of Trianon with the “greatest” Hungarian tragedy ever aspect of it.

Lola
Guest

I’m ashamed of being Hungarian, we’re leaving Italians deal alone with immigrants, I’m no more astonished that they don’t like us.

Elektrone Motyo
Guest

Just checked in for a daily hate dosis… I was not disappointed. 🙂
Whoever wrote the article, should consider that depending on the extent of cultural differences multi-ethnic countries are not necessary multicultural (the definition of multiculturalism is still debated).
Immigrants to Hungary were dominantly from neighboring regions, thus they were not really considered as foreigners in contrast to contemporary immigrants from distant places. Why the author mixes these is beyond my comprehension probably also beyond his/her.

Also don’t forget, how “Europe” stayed silent, when the former EU-conform Hungarian prime minister spoke about the dangers of 23 million immigrant Romanians!

exTor
Guest

By one’s company shall one be known, ugye Elektrone Motyo? Given that you uploaded the above video of that shitbag racist [szarzsák rasszista] Zsolt Bayer, what does that make you, a fellow traveler?

Daily hate ??? I doubt that you’re intelligent enough to understand the concept of irony deficiency. One thing I learned in North America, there’s no percentage in arguing with out-and-out racists. Racists dont do intelligent discourse. Further right, the out-and-outers are about action on the streets, civilian terror at the hands of blackshirts, brownshirts, whitesheets, what have you. This is the ultimate of the likes of you.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Elektrone Motyo
Guest

Since you are older than me I reply respectfully: having a video in the playlist does not mean that I have uploaded that video. I use my youtube playlist to save videos to watch for later, and it is not for Bayer I wanted to watch that video.

exTor
Guest

https://www.youtube.com/user/RPElektrone

Yes, I am probably twice as old as you, Elektrone Motyo. According to what I have learned, you are a liar. You did indeed upload that video of that szarzsák Bayer. The link attests to your having uploaded it.

The link also shows your face, so readers of Hungarian Spectrum can see with whom they are dealing. Googling ‘elektrone motyo’ comes up with a few interesting other links to you.

Hopefully when you grow up you will be more intelligent than what you now show. Too bad. You’re a waste of space, as we’d say in Canada.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Elektrone Motyo
Guest

Luckily, most of Canadians are friendlier, and are often happy to discuss in a friendly manner. Anyways if you open the video you’ll see just right under it that the uploader was Echo Tv, what confuses you is that I created a playlist that is called Echo Tv, too. (here is the original link of the video): https://youtu.be/vOlhyOEIq98?list=PLImcKZ6wsWrY0dvH1CmsFGHGh7NDSLRoF

I am sorry that you don’t have difficulties using online technology.

exTor
Guest

https://www.youtube.com/user/RPElektrone

/Users/MAGYARKOZO/DESKTOP/ELEKTRONE MOTYO.png

I retract my misstatement, Elektrone Motyo. I will accept that Echo TV (owned by now-Jobbik supporter Simicska) uploaded that video, not you.

That fact notwithstanding, your link to that video featuring that szarzsák Bayer puts you beside him.

As for the demeanor of Canadians (online or otherwise) I hope that most would be less-than-friendly once they learned of your unmitigated racism.

I’m sorry that you have problems accepting people who are not quite as white as you.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Elektrone Motyo
Guest

Echo TV is not owned by Simicska, it is owned by Gábor Széles.

“I’m sorry that you have problems accepting people who are not quite as white as you.” – I don’t know where you get this, I have an extraordinary good relationship with black (and other races) people I meet e.g in the church or in the neighborhood. I would really appreciate if you would refrain from trying to stigmatize me. I am still confused about what makes you think like that, that video contains no racist rant.

Reality Check
Guest

So it is only multicultural if it involves people who have more melanin than you?

And wasn’t the concern about Romanians regarding economic immigrants and not refugees? There seems to be a consensus in the EU regarding the different status of these different types of immigrants. There is no call in the EU to swing the doors wide open for economic immigrants.

seinean sabisan
Guest

“Hungarian prime minister spoke about the dangers of 23 million immigrant Romanians”

That – if real – was blatantly stupid and highly unlikely. Orbi seams to be the real deal as far as anti-European – like in XIX-th century nationalism – is concerned.

Old Education
Guest

It was pm. Ferenc Gyurcsany

Guest
Just had a talk with my wife on Orbán’s “performance” – turned out she had just read about it on her smartphone’s news (She’s so happy btw that we don’t have to switch on the tv anymore for news – especially with M1 having been turned into a kind of North Korean State propaganda channel …) She especially liked Mr Schulz’s retort re the death penalty: The Bible says thou shalt not kill! A bit OT re refugees: She also told me the story of one of her cousins. In 1956 in a Budapest gymnasium one of the teachers told his 16 year old pupils (all boys): Tomorrow bring some extra clothing to school – we’re leaving Hungary! If you don’t want to go, tell your parents you have a headache or whatever and stay at home! No, you can’t bring your little sister or brother – it’s just us! So accompanied by around 20 boys he went to the Austrian border where he knew a water channel/creek that passed the border, they waded/swam through and waited trembling from the cold and wetness until morning to run to freedom, all the time afraid to be found by the Hungarian and/or… Read more »
Elektrone Motyo
Guest

Yeah wolfi, Mr (Kein Abi) Schultz as an atheist should probably refrain from demanding abidance by the Ten Commandments. Although I am not an advocate of capital punishment, I need to clarify here that Mr Schultz’ reply is just another proof of his illiteracy regarding Biblical themes. The commandment in Hebrew says that you should not murder which is not the same as to kill. The focus is on unlawful killing.

spectator
Guest

Anybody has some viable explanation, why the Christian and very “Hungarian” Hungarian PM using expression – while allegedly speaking Hungarian in Brussels – as “magyar vircsaft”?
It is “Ungarisch Wirtschaft” if you spell it, and it as far from the “Hungarian Economy” what it would translate to, as you can get.
Literally it would translate as “mess” or “confusion” – both of them has Hungarian equivalents, but Orbán decided to go with this version – any ideas, why?
To show his outstanding literacy?
Really?

Webber
Guest

One of the columnists from ÉS has been misspelling “vircsaft” that way as a joke for years. Is it possible that Orbán read or reads ÉS? (clearly he doesn’t understand it) Or could it just be his speechwriter?

sass
Guest

Vircsaft a “real” word in Hungarian, like stróman.

It’s an obviously derogatory term, it means a kind of alien, disorderly business or activity.

Like Jews doing their doings, you know this and that and whatever but they’re up to no good.

spectator
Guest

Thanks for the help, I appreciate it!
However, instead of the word “stróman” recently the expression “Lőrinc Mészaros” has taken place. They claim it’s equivalent.

Any observation?

spectator
Guest

I wouldn’t know.

Orbán desperately trying to be ‘one of us’ – not me, that’s for sure – and using expressions what he – or his speechwriter, whoever that moron is – thinks that “folkish” enough to create the proper impression.
As a result, he frequently using words what nobody really uses nowadays, but ‘sounds right’ for the purpose.

As I recon “vircsaft” has quite a lot to thank to the Yiddish derived from German sometime a while ago. Have heard in my childhood a few times, but I don’t think is used nowadays frequently, unless one belongs to the highest circles of Fidesz, I guess.

Guest

My dictionary of Hungarian slang translates vircsaft as Mißwirtschaft i e mismanagement in Italian it gets rigiro, Machenschaften, scheming, intrigues, wheeling and dealing …

Re our new “contributor” elektro … – he seems to be an avid reader of Hungarian Ambiance and a big fan of racist pastor Lóránt Hegedűs jr who was already mentioned by Eva:
http://hungarianspectrum.org/tag/lorant-hegedus/
http://www.hungarianambiance.com/2015/02/reformed-church-pastor-lorant-hegedus.html

Do I have to say more?

spectator
Guest

Thanks wolfi!
The question remains the same, nevertheless: why would the Hungarian PM use such expression in Brussels, for Heavens sake?

spectator
Guest

Another little gem of The Great Man himself: “Hungary never was a multicultural state!”

As Eva pointed out above, the reality is quite far from this statement – hands up who still surprised by the observation! Well, thanks..!

Then perhaps there is some other explanation of the couple of hundred (!) turk/Turkish origin word what became integrated into the Hungarian Language, than that 150 years of common existence in the Carpathian bowl? (While I am aware of the close proximity during the Migration Period) Failed to mention, that the country was divided to three parts that time, since – due to our great heroism and freedom-loving nature – we’ve been under Ottoman and Hapsburg rule, with their respective cultures to go with.

Simply BRILLIANT!
To sell that load of crap again, definitely needs some talent, wouldn’t you say?
Oh, thank you, Viktor, you managed to prove to those decadent bastards your superiority, again!
Hallelujah!

Old Education
Guest

As I proved with the data of the last census, Hungary is a multiethnic country. 81% of the people considered themselves as Hungarians in the cesus.

Old Education
Guest

Ottoman Turkish colonists have never lived in Kingdom of Hungary.

The vast majority of the seventeen and nineteen thousands Ottoman soldiers in service in the Ottoman fortresses in the territory of Hungary were Orthodox and Muslim Balkan Slavs instead of ethnic Turkish people.[6] Southern Slavs were also acting as akinjis and other light troops intended for pillaging in the territory of present-day Hungary.[7]

aa22
Guest

Other interesting Hungarian linguistic accident:

Sell out – kiárul
and
Betray – elárul

Orban-Vona-Morvai do all at the same time.

Guest

Just found this translation of the interview with Orbán re refugees in Debrecen and “the International Day Against Homophobia” on a site has has been mentioned here before:
https://congressofbaboons.wordpress.com/
Unbelievable! Here’s an excerpt:
“If we steer this system towards any direction, even if we make more stringent regulations or the community of homosexuals start being more provocative, I think that the current peaceful, calm equilibrium will be no more.”

The rest is even worse …

Thanks to the author of “Congress of baboons”!

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