The latest Hungarian plan to seal the border: It will be difficult

I am almost certain that, in the long run, the Orbán government will not come out well from its planned confrontation with the European Union. At the moment, the details of the government’s position are being worked out by clever Fidesz strategists. The government is planning to modify the present law governing the treatment of political refugees, a law that was introduced after the European Union found the previous provisions illegal. Prior to 2012 Hungary was able to arrest any and all who illegally crossed its borders. But, as Viktor Orbán admitted recently, the European Union threatened Hungary with infringement proceedings unless it abandoned this practice, and therefore the government caved.

From the various Fidesz politicians who in the last couple of days have expressed their opinions on the matter and have offered solutions to what they consider a serious problem, it looks as if the government would like to revert back to the days prior to 2012 when Hungarian border guards could arrest anyone who illegally crossed into Hungary, regardless of their possible refugee status. But surely, a restoration of the old law is out of the question, so new legal tricks must be employed. An alleged solution is already in the works. The Fidesz caucus would change the law on the refugee status of immigrants by authorizing the government to set up “a list of so-called safe third countries.” The idea is that no one would be accepted into Hungary who, in the course of his emigration, had been in a safe country.

We don’t know how long the list of “safe” countries will be, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Serbia heads it. Once Serbia is declared a safe country, there is no need for barbed wire fences along the Hungarian-Serbian border, which had been mentioned earlier by some of the politicians. Everybody who is caught crossing the border will be expelled immediately, no questions asked. Critics of the plan claim that the Serbian situation is not as rosy as Fidesz politicians portray it. The Serbian police “sometimes beat the refugees, sometimes rob them, and at times they do both.” And according to Boldizsár Nagy, a constitutional lawyer and an expert on refugee issues, declaring Greece one of those safe havens will not work either because Greece is so overwhelmed by the influx of refugees that the European Commission only recently asked other countries to take over about 20,000 refugees currently in Greece.

The government wants to change the definition of political refugee as soon as possible: anyone entering Hungary from a safe third country will lose his claim to refugee status. And Orbán is in a great hurry. He wants to have the amendment passed before the summer recess. It is likely that, with Fidesz and Jobbik votes, the amendment will sail through. But what still remains a question is the practical application of this newly amended law. Arresting everyone who crosses into Hungary from Serbia doesn’t strike me as a real option. What will the government do with all the people it arrests? Sending them back to Serbia might result in legal wrangling between the two countries. I should mention that by now the thousands who cross the Serb-Hungarian border are not Kosovars.  On Sunday the police caught 325 individuals, most of whom came from Afghanistan and Syria. According to estimates, 80% of the people who arrive in Hungary come from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan, most of whom are definitely eligible for refugee status.

The frantic propaganda campaign against immigrants conducted by the government might just backfire, especially if their clever legal loophole turns out to be a dud. It could easily happen that the hastily put together plan will simply not work in practice. Or that the European Commission will take action against it. If after such a propaganda campaign Orbán’s plan fails, the reputation of the government may be further damaged.

As it stands, even some Fidesz supporters find the huge billboards distasteful. Népszabadság reported a case of a billboard that was placed in a schoolyard in Budapest. Teachers and parents initiated a “billboard reduction” campaign. They filled eggs with paint, which they threw against the billboard. Együtt organized a defacing campaign, and the party’s activists did quite a job on many of the posters. A group of six youngsters was arrested and kept in jail overnight. Two others tore down a billboard and then went to the closest police station and turned themselves in.

Poster plan / mkkp.hu

Planned poster / mkkp.hu

What I like best is an “anti-poster” campaign initiated by the “Two-Tailed Dog’s Party,” which as you can imagine is a group of jokesters who got together with a popular political blog called Vastagbőr (Thick skin). They began collecting money on Facebook for their own set of posters with messages of a very different nature from those displayed by the government. The response was phenomenal. As one of the organizers said, they receive 1 million forints every hour. Their original goal was three million forints, but by now they have reached 11 million (over 35,156 euros), which is enough for 150 posters. They have a few ideas already, and they’re waiting for others, which I’m sure will be pouring in. These guys are very clever.

Poster plan / mkkp.hu

Planned poster / mkkp.hu

Orbán’s hate campaign hasn’t gone unnoticed. A couple of days ago the Council of Europe issued a strongly worded report criticizing the Orbán government for its xenophobia and violence against migrants and minorities. Some Austrian and German papers have already noticed the “poster-war” that is currently underway. Now we just have to wait and see how successful Orbán will be at handling the immigration issue on his own instead of cooperating with the other EU member states.

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Member
They most definately are taking a page from Canadian Jason Kenney’s book and the immigration reform we underwent in Canada to deter Roma from coming and claiming refugee status. We even put up billboards in Hungary for Christs sakes. They know it worked here, so it will work there too. I didn’t agree with it for Canada and I don’t agree with it for Hungary either. What many do not realize is that just because a country is generally “safe” it doesn’t mean that is the case for everyone. What really peeves me is that people are not allowed to move freely in this world we think we are making such headway when it comes to freedom of people, but the whole world is backsliding with regards to freedom. It seems we are losing our stride with regards to free movement, freedom of assembly, womens rights and Hungary is not the only country that is seeing increasing xenophobia, antisemitism and racism. They will most definately use Canada as their example when arguing with the EU. What so many “Conservative” people don’t want attention to be drawn to is the fact that, with it we breed hate and lose compassion and… Read more »
buddy
Guest

MKKP has now received 15 million forints for their anti-poster campaign – you can see the data updated nightly here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Faqcki4Woh85wOQdl0P9rDKWaCvlG5r4woth0dkCMew/edit#gid=0

The best part of the story is that they plan to use a Simicska company to put up the billboards.

Miklos
Guest

I am interested to learn from the ultra lib writers, contributors of this magazine what Orban and Hungary is supposed to do with the refugees?

googly
Guest

Miklos,

“I am interested to learn from the ultra lib writers, contributors of this magazine what Orban and Hungary is supposed to do with the refugees?”

Send them to your house.

eugeneloretta
Guest

Indeed. Hungary faces a refugee crisis. I am thinking about Hungarian refugees in Britain

Webber
Guest

Miklos, it’s not as if Hungary were the only country with refugees, and it’s not as if there weren’t measures in place.
Orban is lying when he suggests that Hungary can’t do anything under current regulations.

Guest

Re: the anti-posters

I sure thought that ‘Welcome to Hungary’ poster was great. I’d love to have that one on my wall. It’s one of those things though that doesn’t tell the truth but it kind of puts the idea in to show the country does have the spirit to go after it….;-)…

If we think about the situation it may be prescient in the sense that if it keeps on the country will perhaps need some top ‘reklam’ to reclaim it from the perception of xenophobia. Magyarorszag surely has to worry about public opinion on this. Curious if the guys running the country are taking their vitamins.

Latefor
Guest

If Orban would issue a Hungarian Citizenship to every single refugee, it will be really up to them to decide if they want to stay in Hungary or take advantage of their EU privilege.:-) This way, Orban could gain popularity with the “new” citizens, (would be known as a great humanitarian), with the welcoming Hungarian people who are creating the posters and he could also satisfy the needs of the Liberal Opposition. Piece of cake and everybody is accommodated, satisfied and happy. 🙂

petofi
Guest

Latefor,
you must read “True Romance” and pulpy stuff like that, eh?

Latefor
Guest

Petofi
Would you please be more specific…

petofi
Guest

Back about 14 years ago, a Balkan intellectual who had been monitoring Islamist strategy for a number of years, told me that Muslim countries seemed to have a new policy of creating refugee masses which would be taken in by the western countries, and these people would quickly outbreed the ‘whites’ and turn the democratic voting procedure to their advantage. It seems to be happening.

I haven’t found articles detailing where the sudden upsurge of people heading to Europe are coming from. It would be interesting to note.

MB
Guest
You haven’t been looking very hard, then. They’re coming from war zones, where things tend to get worse. Certainly as ISIS gains control, Syria has become much more dangerous. You can start by googling Syria and I’m sure you’ll find many articles. More of the recent refugees are well-educated, often better-educated and speaking better English than the average person in many entrance countries – they are not economic migrants and would not be leaving if they weren’t in danger. That they are in danger from extremist religious movements kind of implies that most of them are not extremists, doesn’t it? Conspiracy theories about evil brown Muslims trying to take over Europe by making dangerous, expensive, often fatal journeys that take years, just in hopes that their asylum applications will be accepted and they can then have lots of children are just that…conspiracy theories. Racist ones at that. Studies have shown that refugees – those who leave their home countries because they’re in danger – don’t want to leave, and would return if it were safe. (For reference, I’m currently in Greece, which receives far, far more refugees than Hungary ever will. Anyone who can look at them and not feel… Read more »
Latefor
Guest

Petofi,
Do you agree with Orban or don’t you re: accepting refugees?

petofi
Guest

I don’t agree: Orban really has no point of view–he has political strategies.

I would allow immigrants but I would screen them carefully. For one thing, though multiculturalism is alright, I would require immigrants and their children to learn Hungarian and consider that their foremost obligation is to adopt and protect the culture of the country they have come to stay and live in. The operative phrase there is, “to live in”. If they seek to pass on elsewhere, that’s another story.

Latefor
Guest

Petofi,
“Screen them carefully” like take the dentists, the doctors and the scientists….maybe make them sign a contract for let’s say: 7 years of working contract for Hungarian Citizenship…the possibilities are unlimited. BUT, what about the “others”?

eugeneloretta
Guest

‘To adopt and protect the culture’. The ‘foremost’ obligation. This can be put into law only in totalitarian systems. By the way, can you define ‘the adoption of the culture’? Or the ‘protection of the culture’ by an ordinary citizen? It can be defined, indeed, by totalitarian measures: compulsory usage of the official language, denial of minorities’ language, ‘national values’-oriented propaganda. By the way, I doubt if the PM knows many things about Hungarian culture (the ‘foremost’ cultural feature of this country is supposed to be football, I presume).

googly
Guest

eugeneloretta,

You wrote: ” I doubt if the PM knows many things about Hungarian culture”

He knows – we all know, from school. He just doesn’t care.

spectator
Guest

I don’t think he does.
Otherwise he would certainly have objected because of the inadequate Hungarian language skills applied by formulating those memorable phrases on those billboards.

“If you come to Hungary, you shall not take the jobs of the Hungarians.”

It means, that you can take the jobs of the none-Hungarians, like the Slovaks in the Suzuki factory in Esztergom?

It means, that if you don’t come to Hungary, you can take the jobs of the Hungarians elsewhere, like you can wash dishes in London instead of a Dr. Kovács?

It means, that you can go freely to Salgotarján (or whatever city fits) because there isn’t any jobs to take at all?

So, if you think that whoever wrote and allowed this crap to reach daylight has anything to do with the Hungarian culture – or whichever culture at all, – please, reconsider!

In my opinion both the copyrighter and the PM of Hungary is illiterate next to moron on my scale.

But you may prove me wrong, anytime, of course!

googly
Guest

I would never think to defend the authoritarian who has destroyed democracy in Hungary, but I’m pretty sure that he has some inkling as to what are the greatest cultural touchstones in Hungary, including novels, poems, songs, movies, and food, but he’s too boorish to care about anything other than robbing the Hungarian taxpayer and watching football.

He may very well be borderline illiterate, I can’t say entirely for sure, but I don’t think he’s a moron. If he is, then Hungarians look even worse, since they fell for his machinations and gave him unfettered power. He may just be an uncultured peasant, but that is hardly an insult, in my book, since I’ve known some very nice peasants who would never do to Hungary what this monster has done to us.

spectator
Guest
Of course, its obvious that I am harsh and exaggerating at some level, but something for sure, none of the options are better. Even if he only pretend to be an ignorant moron in order to show up, he is ‘one of us’ (not me!) just as bad. After all, when it comes to the action the end result just the same. To me there is a self assured prick who ‘knows everything’ better than anyone else and shameless enough to enforce his will. The very last straw to break any doubts in my mind was Orbáns open letter to Prof. Katalin Dávid, a renowned art historian, when he explained to her, what the symbolism stands for in that infamous and dreadful monument, with not so subtle references to his position, and why is he only has a say in the matter: “My courage does not extend to iconographic comments, and not even the two-time two-thirds majority can help that. My courage extends merely to a comment of a political nature regarding the identity of the military machine that occupied us. But this immediately drags us into the depths of a pivotal question; who were these invaders: Nazis or Germans?… Read more »
karmester
Guest

this is the subject of Michel Houllebecq’s latest novel. Check it out.

Webber
Guest

Orban’s billboards are allegedly addressed to refugees – e.g. you can’t come to Hungary and take jobs from Hungarians – but they are all in Hungarian. How many Somalis, Syrians, Afghans, Iraqis, Kosovar Albanians or people from various African countries speak Hungarian?
It’s obvious that all those billboards are actually addressed to native Hungarians, and it seems likely that the result – whether desired or not – will be a rise in xenophobia.

Latefor
Guest

Webber,
Do you agree with Orban or don’t you re: refugees?

Webber
Guest

P.S. Vendégszerető nép – aha… tell me another one.

Latefor
Guest

Webber,
Please no pussy footing around. I need an answer.

googly
Guest

Latefor,

Do you have nothing to contribute at all, and you’re just commenting to annoy people? Obviously nobody here, including Eva, agrees with Orbán on anything substantive.

Of course, if you are just commenting to annoy Webber, please, continue.

Latefor
Guest

Googly,
If you’d read my previous comments, you could see that I had PLENTY to contribute! 🙂 I must go now, the goulash is burning!

googly
Guest

So you can’t contribute until people succumb to your pestering, inane questions?

Latefor
Guest

Googly,
Attack the problem NOT each other!

googly
Guest

In this case, your pestering is the problem. If you have a point to make, quit insisting that people answer your questions, unless they have accused you of something you didn’t do, and you’re asking them to provide proof. Otherwise, leave them alone if they don’t want to answer your questions.

This is just advice from me on how to not come off as a jerk. If you continue, it’s up to Eva to do something about it if she chooses. If you really care about the issues, you’ll try to be polite to people who generally agree with you.

Latefor
Guest

Googly and Webber – how about try and learn debating without using personal attacks. If somebody presents a challenge for you, your first reaction is to attack, humiliate and destroy.Can’t you make your point in a more civilized way? You can attack and destroy (if you’re smart) without the humiliation part. 🙂

googly
Guest
Latefor, You wrote: “If somebody presents a challenge for you, your first reaction is to attack, humiliate and destroy.” Not true, and if you have read any of the rest of my comments directed towards other commenters, you would know that unless that commenter has attacked me or someone else first, I almost always start off politely, focusing on the argument without addressing the person’s character (the exceptions usually being obvious trolls). If you think that what I am writing to you is an attack, then you haven’t seen me attack anyone. I don’t think I can say this any more clearly, so I will quote myself: “This is just advice from me on how to not come off as a jerk.” Note that I was not calling you a jerk, I was just saying that these specific comments make you seem like a jerk. When it comes to Webber, however, you have a good point. In this case, though, he is justified. You also wrote: “how about try and learn debating without using personal attacks.” Again, look at my other comments, you’ll see how wrong you are. Besides, what is there to debate? I don’t see anything of substance… Read more »
Latefor
Guest

Googly,
This was great piece of writing! Are you a lawyer? 🙂
Still no direct answers to my questions re: accepting large influx of refugees. Do you support the PM or if you oppose him, how would you handle the refugee crises?

Re: my supposed anger issues – Sorry, wrong diagnosis! 🙂

exTor
Guest

I understand your frustration with Latefor, googly. Most of your points about Latefor are appropriate. As for Webber, you need to give it a rest. You are starting to sound petty with respect to Webber. Forget the past (whatever it may be) with respect to Webber. Deal with that person as you advise Latefor to behave.

Latefor often comes across in an annoying fashion. She frequently drops, amongst the Hungarian Spectrum posts, her flippancies as if they were profundities. She seems to be one of the semitrolls who inhabit this forum.

My advice to those tempted to deal with her sometime inanities is to ignore her. As is evidenced by the numerous exchanges I’ve witnessed, the resultant ‘discourse’ eventually descends to banality or –worse– provocation. Distance the disease.

Again, re Webber, chill dude !!!

MAGYARKOZÓ

Webber
Guest

LateFor, your needs are your problem, nobody else’s. (to be accurate, in this case, you have no need, you’ve made a demand)

buddy
Guest

An Index reporter went around and explained the billboard to some refugees in Debrecen and got their reactions
http://index.hu/video/2015/06/06/menekult_bevandorlo_kampany_debrecen_plakat/

I felt sorry for the dark-skinned gentleman who was refused service in a local cafe. It’s exactly the kind of thing that is a result of the government’s xenophobic campaign, as well as emboldening and encouraging this kind of behavior.

Berne Weiss
Guest

Hundreds of thousands of Hungarian refugees made important contributions to their new homes and to the world. A significant number won Nobel Prizes. Some of the reasons they left are still part of the character of the country, including anti-Semitism. Hungary isn’t the destination of choice for most of those fleeing war and oppression and lives of desperation. If they weren’t detained they would probably keep going to a less hostile environment.
BW

Mukkermann
Guest

A white, more or less middle-class person is not a refugee, nor an immigrant, he/she is an expat (who might of course naturalize later).

Even Arabic Hungarian people like Fidesznik Pierre Daher thinks it’s totally OK to hate poor (muslim) Arabs or Africans because Daher is a middle-class Christian doctor so the term immigrant cannot possibly include him. He is a Hungarian of foreign origin, at most. He has nothing to do with those dirt poor bastards.

The immigration/refugee issue has nothing to do with immigrants as such and everything to do with race and class.

petofi
Guest

One other thing to add to my comment above: America is, socially considered, a ‘melting pot’–Canada is multicultural. The problem with the Canadian policy is that immigrants come to the country and often don’t even learn the language. Try ‘little Italy’ in Toronto and you’ll find Italians who have lived there for 30 years and who can’t speak English. That’s wrong. Once you immigrate to Canada, you owe it to the country to become Canadian–to learn both languages, or atleast, one of them; to respect its laws and practices. This doesn’t mean that you must forget the culture of the country of your birth. But there should be no confusion: primary loyalty belongs to the adoptive country. So basically, the problem is that Canadian culture is not promoted as the primary culture of the land. ‘Multicultural’ should not mean that all cultures are equal and alike. The host culture comes first and immigrants should clearly understand that.

googly
Guest

petofi,

Not everyone can learn a new language, especially if they are not young. Many who do spend many hours over many years to become fluent, and I would not expect someone to take that much time away from their family and work. Their children, if they have any, will certainly learn the national languages, and that is what is important. If you suddenly found yourself forced to move to a country where you don’t know the language (like Edward Snowden), you would see what it’s like for these people. Try to be a little more tolerant, and put yourself in their place.

exTor
Guest
Sorry petofi, your view on the Canadian immigration experience borders on reactionary. I lived in Toronto long before you arrived in Canada as a youth. Being young makes it easy to learn a new language, as you did. I am more than a little aware of Little Italy, having gone to highschool [Oakwood Collegiate] in the area. Almost everyone was Italian, it seemed. No biggie. Lots of others: Jews, Jamaicans, Ukrainians, Poles, Chinese, Hungarians. The nonCanadian Italians I met in my Canadian existence all spoke some English. They could not, obviously, speak/write like me, or even like you, however that was irrelevant. There are more than a half-million Italians (and probably a similar number Chinese) in the Greater Toronto area. I’m talking about those born both outside of and in Canada. The services (newspapers, television, radio) that exist for the Italian-speaking community also exist for the Hungarian-speaking community, though to a slightly lesser extent (because of numbers). The Hungarian arrivers-to-Canada behaved no differently than any other ethnic grouping. The bottomline is that Canadian multiculturalism (which is a good thing) ultimately results in the same thing as the American ‘meltingpot’: total assimilation for the succeeding generations. As for your “primary loyalty”,… Read more »
petofi
Guest

@exTor,

First off, I lived in Canada from the 1950’s. I daresay you haven’t lived there that much more than I, but why that should matter…I don’t know.

As for ‘primary loyalty’…I’m in Hungary because I like the language; I love Budapest; and because my wife’s grandchildren live here. Big heartedly, and somewhat foolishly (latefor can probably expand on what i’m about to write..) I felt that all that happened during the war years had nothing to do with me (!?) Imagine that: I forgave. In fact, if it wasn’t for the chance meeting of my parents in the sunny confines of Bergen Belsen, I might not now be. Problem was, in the years I’ve been here I’ve been witness to the most virulent, abiding, anti-semitism ever. Unfortunately, I cannot be like Bobby Duval in Apacolypse: “I love the smell of…..in the morning!” But even if I can’t smell the anti-semitism, it is well nigh palpable in a hundred different ways.

So we’re kinda stuck here having bought a modest apartment and not being rich–‘riding the bark to oblivion’, as are many hapless Hunkoes.

exTor
Guest
Well petofi, I laid out my bonafides (as it were) at the beginning of my piece because I was pissed-off at your point of view, which came after a bunch of dubious posts by you, which I saw as borderline racist and others saw as clearly racist, something that I dont expect from Spectrum readers, at least not from members in (presumably) good standing. My arrival year and and my residence ultimately mean nothing, my POV stands or fails based on what I marshal toward my argument. You need to cut immigrants major slack, petofi. They do the best they can. They (for the most part) like where they’ve ended up, even if they cant speak as well as you. They are assimilating as best they can. The program of multiculturalism is just a (Canadian) way to make things a bit easier for those immigrants, who will ultimately melt into the pot that is Canada. It is very much unfortunate that you have encountered antisemitism in Hungary. The level of antisemitism here bothers me too and I’m not even Jewish. Presumably born a Roman Catholic, I dont do God and probably never did do God in any meaningfully real sense.… Read more »
petofi
Guest

@exTor

You mean I should ‘cut slack’ to immigrants in Hungary or Canada. Largely, I was speaking of Canada. So, you wish for me to cut slack for the fellow of Indian extraction (who had lived in Canada some 20 years) and who murdered his first wife (and a daughter from that marriage, I think) in order to marry a younger second wife? Right, he’s melding right in to the ‘Canadian Way’, ain’t he? But there are many similar examples.

Fact is, immigrants to Canada have been given a free pass–no need to adopt Canadian culture. That’s wrong. By the way, I’m sure part of the French Candian beef with Canada is about the ease in which English Canada surrenders their rights to immigrants…

exTor
Guest

Your citation of a specific Canadian-immigration case that happens to involve a crime is irrelevant, petofi.

No immigrant should be compelled to do anything other than follow the laws of the land. Absolutely no law that mandates compulsory ‘cultural adherence’, as orwellian as that sounds, should ever be promulgated.

Speaking of orwellian, petofi, you’re starting to sound Orbánian.

You did not deal with the key part of my post, namely the second-last paragraph, which brought forth some of your past posts of a questionable [read: possibly racist] nature. Please address that paragraph’s contents.

May I suggest that you show your wife my previous post. I am curious as to how she will react.

MAGYARKOZÓ

István
Guest

Hungarian culture has transformed over time. Let’s recall it wasn’t until around the 1520s that a Hungarian book was printed. It wasn’t until the end of the eighteenth century that the term Hungarian began to be used for citizens who speak Hungarian and belonged ethnically to what was believed to be a Hungarian nation. The promotion of the use of the Hungarian language as the language of state was an outgrowth of the defense of Latin as the language of state against Joseph II’s Germanization rules. It was not unit the 1800s that the idea nyelvében él a nemzet appeared. Even Petofi, the poet not our blogger, came from a primarily Slovak speaking family whose name was originally Petovics. Hungary is also already a multinational society, all be it one in denial.

Question
Guest

Wrong. The first Hungarian printing press was opened in 1472, and the second was opened in the 1475. Hungary had printing press before England and all british kingdoms, before Spain. Do not forget Italian Renaissance and Humanism were adopted in Hungary long before any other countries in Europe.

“It wasn’t until the end of the eighteenth century that the term Hungarian began to be used for citizens who speak Hungarian and belonged ethnically to what was believed to be a Hungarian nation.”

Wrong again. According to you, all European medieval chronicles are liars which mentioned the Hungarian people and language….. Only one ethnonym did not exist in medieval Europe: The Slovak, because Slovak ethnonym appeared only in the 16th century.

exTor
Guest

http://typographia.oszk.hu/html/uk/nyomdak/hess_uk.htm

I have to give this call to Question. According to the link, a printpress opened in Buda in 1472 and its first book was published the next year.

Notwithstanding Question’s opinion on western Europe (geographically), Question’s been pretty good with the facts, which means people will have to be on the ball with Question hovering around.

Remember, Google is our friend.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Question
Guest

Yes, I forget to mention, after the death of Andreas Hess, there were an other old printing press in Buda, which were established by Italians, and it had much longer continuity.

Guest

Hess printed books in Latin – there is nothing about Hungarian …

“The first print known commonly as the Buda Chronicle (Chronica Hungarorum) is a Latin language history of the Hungarians compiled from several chronicle-manuscripts.”

Our new troll “Question” seems not too well informed …

Guest

Not too much OT:

In Germany we also had a lot of immigrants aka “guest workers” since the 60s – most of them planned to stay only for a few years, some returned but many stayed. Of course their children have become totally integrated.
And especially culinary wise they have been an enrichment of our culture – my wife really likes those Greek, Turkish, Spanish and Italian restaurants and when we do a walk through the town center you see the younger generation eating also Indian, Chinese and Arab stuff …

Re those billboards (especially in comparison with those that the Canadians put up in Hungary):
They are obviously meant for the xenophobic Hungarians of which there seem to be too many!
It’s really a kind of bad, bad joke …

The_Philistine
Guest
The validity of Orban”s solution aside (My belief is that ultimately he will go the way of his namesake Viktor Yanukovich), still even a blind chicken finds some corn and he is correct that Europe has a massive issue when it comes to immigration from outside its borders. It does not have a unified policy and an EU policy would not probably be acceptable to voters who elect their representatives in their respective Parliaments. This exposes the true weakness of the EU system, a lack of direct representation. It is to all of our credit that we feel compassion for these individuals who are beset with problems that we cannot even imagine in the midst of our prosperity. Hurrah for us. However, feeding, housing, and clothing a massive influx of individuals with different languages, culture, and values is beyond most countries ability to manage. Naturally, these immigrants will find jobs eventually, which is great, but one might ask who would have filled that job had the immigrant not been there. Certainly, an unemployed carpenter in UK might ask that question. Does that make her a racist or a xenophobe? Growing up, I was taught that immigrants enrich the receiving country.… Read more »
Adamsky
Guest

University student kids just love Jobbik (and LMP, though less so) and couldn’t care less about the left-wing (MSZP 3%, DK 2%) – which is seen as totally uncool.

http://444.hu/2015/06/10/az-egyetemistak-szerint-a-politika-az-egy-korrupt-hazug-szar-dolog/

Guest

I’ll be going to Hungary this summer for a 10 days stay around Lake Velence; for the first time ever, I’m not looking forward to it.

petofi
Guest

@ theestampe

The country people are better than the city folk.
If you’re here, drop me an e-mail, and if you can tolerate my racism (I’m not) we can
have a tolerably good time over coffee and cake. Ask Eva for my e-mail.

exTor
Guest

I wouldn’t sweat your ten-day stay. The weather’s going to be great. You wont notice anything other than the sun. We –I’m in Csepel, the southern portion of Budapest– have just had our 4th day where the temps have hit at least 30°. Gonna be 34° this weekend.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Member

Cool, my family is split between Csepel, Halásztelek, and Szigethalom. I won’t be going to visit until next year, but I sure do miss it, love the area and the people. Most of us are in Halasztelek, but really scattered throughout the area.

exTor
Guest

Well Liz Aucoin, we seem to have a connect. I’ve been living in Csepel since 2010, except for a year (2011/2012) back in Ontario. My mother is from Csepel, father from Siófok, which is why I was born in England.

If you want to converse privately, I may be reached at voxidia@gmail.com.

Today hit 31°. Tomorrow 34° is skedded for the boat cruise around Csepel Island. Should be good.

Oh BTW, it snowed only once in each of the past 2 winters, each time the snowfall occurred on January 29th. This year’s ‘snowfall’ was less than the year before’s and that melted in a few hours in the next day’s 5° temps.

So it goes in central Europe in wintertime. Because of global warming, weather patterns have been skewed. North America gets iced by the Polar Vortex and we have plus-zero (sometimes double-digit) temps most of the winter. For me, the 2013/2014 Csepel winter was the warmest winter I experienced in my life. And I’m now 65.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Question
Guest

Velence is not for tourists, it is for the fans of yachting and sailing sports.

Guest

So tourists are not allowed to sail on Velence tó?

googly
Guest

Question,

“Velence is not for tourists, it is for the fans of yachting and sailing sports.”

So in your mind, tourists cannot possibly also be fans of yachting and sailing sports? Or do you mean that fans of yachting and sailing sports cannot possibly be tourists? Either way, I think you might want to actually talk to a few of these fans, and see how wrong you are. Also, do a google search for tourism at Lake Velence, in English, and see if your claim stands up. I’ll quote you from one of the results I got: “Lake Velence is the second largest natural lake and one of the most popular tourist destinations in Hungary.”

I have to say, the new style of troll you represent is refreshing in some ways, but just as ill-informed and ineffectual as the old style.

Ron
Guest

Is Velence To deep enough for sailing and yachting? I thought the average depth is 1.5 meter. Is that deep enough?

If there is no rain for a while it is shrinking like the Death Sea. I have been there a couple of times in the summer and wondering why they call it a lake. There was no water.

Guest
From the Orbanic record it looks like he’s spending an inordinate amount of time making sure certain people with a specific designation are kept out of the country. I’d think if that much energy was spent in working towards more positive things perhaps the country would have a better chance of getting out its psychological, moral and social malaise which to me absolutely sucks the life out of it. So I have to thank the policies and mind set that helped these of Magyar background to let their ‘vocations’ fly to the betterment of the country they called ‘home’ and thus contributed much to its society: Andre Kertesz, George Pal, Vilmos Zsigmond, Andy Grove, Joe Namath, Thomas Szasz, John Lukacs, Miklos Rozsa, Gabor Szabo, Tom Lantos, Kati Marton, Ernie Kovacs, Karch Kiraly for example. I could go on. Orban and his cohorts look simply at the negative of immigration. They fail to see how it can work or wish to ignore its powerful effect not only on a country’s culture and society but also the world. Orban is deleteriously hurting his country to its soul with his approach. It is an abject dead end. He looks to me a man… Read more »
MM
Guest

The really absurd thing about this is that the government’s messages are directed towards the migrants, though they obviously would not be able to read them! The campaign is clearly intended to stir up anti-immigrant feelings among the indigenous population and not encourage the migrants to follow Hungarian cultural norms (as one of the posters exhorts them to do).

spectator
Guest

And what “cultural norms” are we talking about?

The “cultural norms” of the Prime Minister, who constantly confusing Christianity with Catholicism, democracy with bolshevism, ‘liberalism’ with ‘neoliberal economy’, and the list near endless?

Or the “cultural norms” of the KDMP, who supposed to be Christian while advocating hate and death penalty?

The “cultural norms” of the Jobbik, or the “cultural norms” of György Konrád?

What the fuck are we talking about, please?

-And this isn’t aimed to you, I hope you’d understand, but toward those morons who thought that this is the way to prove – what exactly?

Prove, that the Nazi and xenophobic views were never truly absent, only dormant in Hungary?

So far it’s a great success – this part of the message came through, loud and clear!

And the people who supporting this primitive, uneducated and unintelligent – that too.

Good luck Hungary to the time travel, have a pleasant journey..!
Or else.

googly
Guest

Spectator,

I like your post, but there’s really no need for vulgarities.

spectator
Guest

You’re right, of course = I apologise!
(Been contributing to the better understanding of ‘Hungarian culture’ at the same time, however, you see..!)

googly
Guest

Yes, believe me, I know exactly what you are talking about! 🙂

buddy
Guest

Rózsa Hoffmann informs us that many immigrants are able to understand the anti-immigrant billboards, because their meaning is clear not only the text but also from the pictures on them.

There’s only one problem with that theory… they don’t have pictures on them…

http://coub.com/view/6t6fs

Member

We are throwing around big words here. What the hell is the “culture”? Countries have laws. Everybody have to abide by the law. But what is culture? I asked one day my Chinese colleagues, who raised 2-3 children here in the US, if they know who Seinfeld is. Blank stairs.

When women wanted to have their driver’s license picture taken in a burka – that’s not cultural issue. It’s the law to show your face.

My favorite parody of Orban’s “respect our culture” banner was this: “He, nigger! Borulj le a bwana kulturaja elott!” (“Hey nigger! Bow down before the bwana’s culture!”)

spectator
Guest

Bow to the bwana’s culture! – As if there was any of it!

I can hardly think that there’s any more European country where culture, tradition, history and public ‘taste’ has been changed – or forced to change – during the last hundreds of years than in Hungary. It truly resembles a building project which going on since forever, and time and again most of it get demolished and started anew, just to reach the same fate again on some time, never even reaching the appearance of readiness, let alone the possibility to settle down and be able to live in it.

Hungary in the state of constant cultural turmoil with no equilibrium in sight.
Wonder, if ever will.

Member

Stares, not stairs … Bad, bad immigrant! After 20 years still can’t spell right.

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