Viktor Orbán’s redefinition of the refugee crisis

Two days ago the Hungarian ministry of foreign affairs and trade posted a statement on its website that emphasized that “political refugees have always been accepted by Hungary.” Péter Szijjártó continued: “It is incumbent on Hungary to be generous because of its history and experience…. When war was still ravaging the Western Balkans, Hungary received the refugees arriving from there, who ran from the region to save their own and their families’ lives from the war, without any major international assistance.” This statement presaged the prime minister’s redefinition of who counts as a political refugee–which, as might be expected, does not include people from the Middle East.

The original EU plan to distribute by a quota system 60,000 refugees currently in Greece and Italy failed, mostly because of the unwillingness of former socialist countries to accept their share of the burden. Donald Tusk, the Polish president of the European Council, sided with them. By contrast, Jean-Claude Juncker has very serious doubts that the proposed plan of voluntary offers by individual countries can possibly solve the problem.

There are two countries that do not have to accept any refugees from Greece and Italy: Bulgaria and Hungary. Bulgaria because it is the poorest country in the European Union and Hungary because this year one-third of all newcomers ended up in Hungary, more people than actually reached Italy. So Hungary doesn’t have to take the 860 refugees from Greece and Italy, as set out in the original plan. But this victory was more than offset by the fact that Viktor Orbán had to agree to follow the Dublin III Regulation, which governs refugee policy within the Union.

I suspect, however, that Orbán is preparing a new assault on Brussels in his effort to keep Hungary unicultural. He seems to be laying the groundwork by redefining key terms in the debate.

Earlier Orbán divided the newcomers into “economic immigrants” and genuine “political refugees.” At the time when about 40,000 Kosovars began their journey northward, Orbán might have been right that these people from a terribly poor country were indeed seeking a better life somewhere in Western Europe. Since then, however, the migration from Kosovo has slowed to a trickle, and most of the people who now cross the Serbian-Hungarian border are Iraqis, Afghans, and Syrians.

In this new situation, Orbán tried to argue that, although these people come from war zones, by the time they arrive in Hungary they are no longer political refugees because earlier they reached safe countries like Greece, Macedonia, and Serbia where their lives were not threatened. It looks to me as if this argument didn’t make an impression in Brussels because Orbán claimed right after the long debate on the refugee question had ended that Hungary will follow the rules of the Dublin III Regulation.

The old arguments are no longer useful or applicable, so an entirely new approach is necessary. Orbán offered a historical analogy. He renamed the refugee crisis a modern Völkerwanderung, the age of migration, or the barbarian invasions of the early Middle Ages. I gave the German term first because the word Orbán used is its mirror translation (népvándorlás). Between about 300 A.D. and 900 A.D. whole ethnic groups moved from east to west, west to east, and north to south. The last such mass migration was that of the Hungarian tribes in 895 and the Vikings’ conquest of Great Britain.

Orbán’s latest brainstorm is that we are not simply confronted with individuals escaping war and persecution but we are facing a modern-day invasion of sorts, the result of which will be the formation of an entirely new political and cultural map of Europe. Under these circumstances the Dublin III Regulation is no longer applicable.

Of course, the description of the current refugee crisis as a modern-day Völkerwanderung is deeply flawed. Most of the movement of peoples in the early Middle Ages involved force and unitary leadership. This is certainly not the case today. I think Orbán himself understands that giving a new name to a phenomenon is not enough to change the essence of it. But somehow, he believes, language can still serve his cause. He is now in the process of giving a new definition to the word “refugee.”

The dictionary definition of “refugee” is simple enough: “one who flees, especially to another country, seeking refuge from war, political oppression, religious persecution, or a natural disaster.” Orbán decided to create his own peculiar definition of the term. In his view one can be called a refugee only if he is running for his life and escapes to a neighboring country. “Since Hungary is not adjacent to Syria, when a migrant arrives at our door he is no longer a refugee.” Orbán, like Szijjártó, brought up the case of the Yugoslav refugees of the early 1990s who were real refugees, unlike those who arrive in Hungary today. If a refugee situation developed along the Hungarian-Ukrainian border, “that would be our responsibility.” The current crisis is obviously not. If tens of thousands of people sought refuge in Hungary from Ukraine he wouldn’t count on the help of the European Union.

I assume this mad talk is mainly for domestic consumption because I can’t quite believe that Orbán would dare deliver such a speech in front of his colleagues in the European Council.

In a Greek refugee camp

In a Greek refugee camp

I also doubt that Orbán will share his thoughts on the sole responsibility of Greece and Italy to handle the massive refugee crisis. According to Orbán, the problem is that Greece and Italy don’t comply with the regulations of Dublin III when they allow migrants to move on to other countries north in order to reach Hungary. All those who went through Greece should be returned to that country. Orbán made it crystal clear that Hungary doesn’t want to have any refugees and hence no refugee camps. All such camps should be set up only in Greece and Italy, which are officially declared to be “front countries.” Greece already in 2013 had 1.1 million refugees, or 10% of the whole population.

Judging from Orbán’s references to the status of front countries, it looks as if Hungary was either offered and declined or decided not even to apply for front-country status which it was entitled to, given the very high number of refugees appearing at its southern border. Such a status would have meant financial assistance to the tune of 130-160 million euros instead of the current 1.5 million. Orbán didn’t take advantage of this opportunity for obvious reasons. He does not want to see any refugees in Hungary, period.

I don’t know how much of this is only idle talk. But even if only half of it represents the Hungarian government’s considered position, I can foresee another round of sparring between Viktor Orbán and the European Commission.

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David Sade
“….and Hungary because this year one-third of all newcomers ended up in Hungary, more people than actually reached Italy….” » The phrase “ended up in Hungary” is erroneous, as it applies that these refugees stayed in Hungary. The opposite is true, whilst this is exactly what the Orban regime is using as the reason for not wanting to accept any more refugees. The truth however is that less then 900 of these unfortunate people stayed in Hungary in any given year. Furthermore, even those that are stayed in Hungary are housed in camps that are not only below any standard known in the west, but their conditions are not much better than the places they run from… Also, many of these refugees have nowhere to go, thus their number is inflated to couple of thousands over the years, but the regime’s claim of 40+ thousands of refugees that Hungary has to deal with is a simple lie. It is time that the western governments and the EU will realise that not one word that comes out from the Orban regime is true. They lie to their own constituency, they lie to the EU organisations, and Orban himself continuously lies to… Read more »

Expect further “peacock dance” performances in Brussels, that is, lies and half-truths served, as somebody on some Hungarian opposition forum already characterized Orbán’s Brussels speeches, “with the dignity of a turkey kicked in the ass”.

Contemporary Hungarians are profoundly xenophobic, and multiculturalism is alien and repulsive to most of them. They have proved utterly incapable of integrating even their own rapidly increasing Roma minority. Under the circumstances, it would be totally unrealistic to expect that they could or would in any way be willing to absorb and integrate large numbers of tribal refugees from the Greater Middle East and sub-Saharan Africa. And landlocked Hungary is indeed well-placed to duck and weave at pleasure regarding this matter, given that it is hundreds of miles away from the Mediterranean front-line of the refugee influx. The dog whistle politics of Orbán in relation to these refugees faithfully represents and happily exploits the opinion of the overwhelming majority of Hungarians in post-Trianon, post-Holocaust, post-Communist Hungary. And not just the opinion of the 80% or so of Fidesz and Jobbik supporters among those who bother to vote in Hungarian elections, but of the vast majority of the rest too. Orbán is therefore on the horns of dilemma between representing the wishes of his constituency and complying with EU demands. Given this context, his fudging and rhetorical contortions about the refugee issue become perfectly understandable. Sooner or later however, the West… Read more »
Re. One of the most popular internet sites is to be sold to Fidesz-leaning owners. Fidesz’ control over the internet will almost be total. (In the meantime RTL was also pacified – but of course.) Origo, for the moment is still owned by Magyar Telekom which – in order to gain favorable position with the government – fired the previous editors of the site who were doing their job, investigating government corruption. The site – after the firings in connection with those also more than half of the editorial staff left at their own initiative – was repositioned as a fidesz-leaning, life-style site (which is still very popular, since magyar telekom used it as its default site when it installed internet) which – pursuant to Fidesz’ wishes – does not deal with “controversial” subjects such as daily politics (and those who replaced the fired editors were, needless to say, reliable fideszniks). Fidesz came relatively late to the internet but it realized that eyeballs, contacts to and data about internet users are absolutely key to its long-term strategy. Meanwhile the left-wing, still in 2015, has no clue whatsoever about media and no plans either. Unfortunately for the lefties by… Read more »

Defeatism and Triumphalism

What “Marcsi” says about media usurpation and domination by Fidesz is all true, and just a part of Orban’s systematic depredations on all that is fair and decent. (There’s also the constitutution, the courts, the tax system, the banks, the economy, the environoment, the culture.)

But what “Marcsi” says about the “left” being incompetent and moribund is in equal parts (1) incorrect and (2) unfair.

Incorrect, because the democratic opposition does not stand alone (despite appearances): There is still a wide world out there, of which Orbanistan is just a tiny part. The physical borders are still open — outward, at least. (And the informational borders are no longer blockable in the online age, in either direction.)
Unfair, because no one has yet written the “how to” manual on what democratically minded citizens and politicians are supposed to do when mountingly mugged and muzzled as they are in Orbanistan.

This sort of defeatism plays into Orban’s hands just as the triumphalism of the Turul trolls does; in fact it is hardly distinguishable from it.

Probably just part of a Magyar cultural tendency to complain instead of correct…

You know when I heard the change regarding the new American ambassador to Hungary and that she had ‘media’ experience I was intrigued since all media today is extremely important in the dissemination and opinion making of populations. It is a crucial tool in the political educations of countries. I thought perhaps it would be useful in ‘the work’ of the ambassador when it came to a critical understanding of politics in the country. But from events it looks to be simply show….like perfume on a goat. Not sure how many ‘outlets’ the opposition has in getting their platforms out. But I think one reason they are getting perhaps nowhere is that they are not strong in having or demanding so -called ‘share of voice’ among the Hungarian populace. Orban and his choir looks like they’re the only ones singing the ‘hits’ since they have most media tied up. At bottom, if the opposition isn’t getting the outlets I’d think creativity in the utilization of media and insistence needs to be rekindled if they want to get their songs sung. In music parlance, those guys need some great help in fashioning a ‘hook’. If they look at Orban he appears… Read more »

Continued from:
@Mike Balint
June 27, 2015 at 4:02 am

And for both the refugee/immigrant issue and the Islamic jihad issue the ease of travel and ease of communication in the modern world have of course proved to be an incredibly powerful force multiplier.

One unintended consequence of the internet was that it serves as an unbelievably effective propaganda, management and organization tool in the hands of criminals and terrorists. The other was to place incompatible cultures cheek by jowl, and open up visions of prosperity and unbridled hedonism before hundreds of millions of destitute, indigent people in underdeveloped countries, for whom the pull of this prosperity and hedonism is understandably irresistible.

An example of the impact of technology is that today many Third World refugees/immigrants travel with cellphones which keep them in touch both with home and with news of the world throughout their perilous journey.

How we cope with these novel and potentially catastrophic circumstances, and whether we are able to cope with them at all, is as yet in the lap of the gods.

One of the truisms I’ve found in my 60+ years on this planet is that the corrupt/criminal element will generally win–at least, in the short run–simply because of the extent they will go in the struggle. To whit, they will murder, corrupt, steal, lie and torture in the fight to come out on top. The ‘gentle soul’ of Christian/Jewish piety and goodwill have no place in this struggle. It must oppose with strength and courage and dour will against the opposition. It must understand the life and death struggle that is taking place. Seen in this context, I can better understand the Russian scientist–some 70 years young–who had said to me some years ago that Russian corruption will invade the world. One can relate this to the situation in Hungary, and, increasingly, in Greece. As for ‘immigrants’ from African/Moslem countries–and the ‘clash of civilizations’ is certainly a part of this–the West will have to learn to make demands: improve societal conditions in those countries; institute birth control etc. Why should the West house relentless waves of immigrants who are, willy-nilly, being forced westward by their own governments who lack the will to reform their societies? Worse still, some of these… Read more »
You know I really never thought in my lifetime that the West would be vilified and attacked so viciously as to its democratic principles and looked at to be simply destroyed, disemboweled and decapitated. Yes it’s war out there now. Once again there now seems sides that have no compunction to rule with raw political autocratic power. Damn the torpedoes full speed ahead to the demise of democracy and all its supposed ilk. Right now it appears Orban has sidled up to Russia after examining his country’s interests. It would seem to be a kleptocrat’s dream linkup but truly a grave loss for Hungary on a moral basis. The bad thing about all that cozying up to a despotic, kleptocratic, oligarchic, autocratic state is that Hungary is indeed contributing to the possible enfeeblement of the West by eating dinners , having nice wine and chatting it up with those predators. For myself as an American, it is almost as if he is my enemy. And if he says he is a friend, he could strike me as a two- faced Janus. I do not take very well to those who seem to want to subtly destroy my country, it’s way… Read more »

non-EU asylum seekers in the EU (28 countries) in 2014: 625,920

Distribution of their origin:

Syria: 19.5%
Afghanistan: 6.6%
Kosovo: 6.1%
Eritrea: 5.9%
Serbia: 4.9%
Pakistan: 3.5%
Iraq: 3.4%
Nigeria: 3.2%
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non-EU asylum seekers in Hungary in 2014: 42,775 (6.8% of the total in the EU)

Kosovo: 50.2% [56.6% of all Kosovar asylum seekers in the EU28]
Afghanistan: 20.6% [21.3% of the Afghan asylum seekers]
Syria: 16.0% [5.6% of the Syrian asylum seekers]
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2015 January-May data


Greece: 50,831 (Syria: 53.7%, Afghanistan: 21.0%, Pakistan: 5.1%)
Hungary 50,430 (Kosovo: 45.7%, Afghanistan: 22.3%, Syria: 15.1%)
Italy: 47,008 (Eritrea: 21.3%)
Spain: 4,209
Poland & Slovakia: 333
Bulgaria: ???


But the Kosovars stopped coming after February.

May distribution of asylum seekers in Hungary:

Afghans: 47.3%
Syrians: 20.6%
Iraqis: 7.3%
Kosovars: 1.9%


Correction: The “Hungarian” landing data above includes the Croatian too. (In the Frontex statistics, they have “Western Balkan”)

@tappanch June 27, 2015 at 6:15 am The relentless need and search by the 24/7 media cycle for controversies about human misery, victimhood, crime, terror and colourful trivia, in pursuit of fear, horror, outrage and titilllation for its public, does of course tend to seriously distort or even downright misrepresent the nature, significance and context of events being reported or commented on. In respect of landings by refugee immigrants in Europe, the issue is not so much the tragic stories and current numbers used by the media to evoke sympathy through horrifying its public as of today, but the trends, the ominous events and circumstances driving those trends, and what those trends might presage about likely future developments. Today, the burning issue above all is what needs to be done by the EU in order to have its cake and eat it too, in this brave new world of the 21st century: namely, to achieve a tricky balance between acting in accordance with its humanitarian ethos with respect to increasingly massive waves of asylum-seeking tribal people from the sub-Saharan Africa and the Greater Middle East, while at the same time retaining the stability and living standards of its post-Christian social… Read more »

@Mike Balint has alas taken the Orbanian bait and deflected attention from Orban’s domestic depredations to the worldwide demographic crisis that has next to nothing to do with the local situation in Hungary.

@Stevan Harnad June 27, 2015 at 7:33 am With respect, I beg to differ. It should be clear from my first two paragraphs of my original 4.02pm entry that there was no intention whatsoever of “deflecting attention from Orbán’s domestic depredations”. In fact, I am sure that our views are identical about those depredations, including his dog whistle politics in relation to refugee immigrants. I expatiated on the worldwide demographic crisis simply to put the Hungarian situation in context. Where we no doubt differ is this: I see Orbán (& Co.) simply as an egregious symptom and natural outgrowth of a pathetic and contemptible society corrupt to its core, where Orbán faithfully represents, fosters and exploits the belief system, value system and worst impulses of that sick society. On the other hand, most of the left-liberal readership of this blog (including your good self), tend to regard Orbán (& Co.) as the alpha and omega of all that is wrong in Hungary, regardless of the social context which make it possible for them to thrive. After all, the Fidesz and Jobbik conglomerate enjoys over 80% support among Hungarians who bother to vote, and by default 100% of those who don’t.… Read more »
@Mike Balint is right that we agree on almost everything: (1) Agreed that Orban and cronies (including the Jobbik yobs) could never have become alpha and omega, with constitution-busting power, without the active support of at least a plurality of the population (plus apathy and cynicism from most of the rest) — and that this problem seems to be endemic to Hungarian culture (generic, if not genetic, as Akos Kertesz had ill-advisedly put it). (2) Agreed also that when the left (i.e., MSzP) was in power (and perhaps still now) they did not use that oopportunity to be less corrupt and more competent than the worst of the Western governing parties (once they’ve gotten too comfortable in power). In fact I don’t doubt that MSzP was marginally more corrupt. But their crimes were pale peccadillos to Fidesz’s high crimes and shameless mendacity. But the status quo is not the left’s fault either. And there are plenty of people on the left who would be honest and capable enough to govern, if only the people would elect them (with constitution-fixing power). But I still think none of this has anything to do with the current global demographic problem. It’s just another… Read more »

If Orban has a fence built on the 175 km long Serbian border, he should have another one on the 453 km long Romanian border too:

Iranian family enters Hungary from Romania illegally:


Orban is just ‘threatening’ in order to appear agreeable to EU principles when giving in, and dropping the idea of building the wall. Of course, the real reason he’ll drop the wall idea is because there won’t be any EU financial backing for it, and therefore the necessary sums will have to come from some prospective theft of a Fidesz henchman…

The norms of Hungary…a thing of beauty and a joy for ever.

Why would anyone ever have kids and submit them to the norms of such an abominable society?

@petofi June 27, 2015 at 10:33 am Hi Petofi, hope you are well and getting there with your plans! As to the proclaimed barrier on the Serbian border, I understand that it is planned to be a 4 meter high chain link wire fence topped with barbed wire, rather than a wall. I often see a similar error in the media re the separation barrier between the West Bank and Israel, which is also mostly just chain link wire fence and barbed wire, though of course there are some particularly sensitive sections where 8 meter high concrete walls with watchtowers had to be erected to, as far as possible, stop terrorists from wreaking havoc among the civilian population. Of course, the most effective way to keep everyone out of Hungary would be to erect a new Iron Curtain around the country, with electrified fences, watchtowers with heavy machine guns, and minefields at least ten kilometers wide along the entire stretch of Hungarian borders. To make a border fortress (végvár) out of the entire country. Egri Csillagok redux, and in a big way! That would then well and truly show those stupid bastards in Brussels who is who around here, wouldn’t… Read more »

Mike Balint
June 27, 2015 at 11:36 am

June 27, 2015 at 10:33 am


And imagine the wonderful opportunities to steal the Hungarian taxpayer blind in the course of implementing a new Iron Curtain project like this, and thus to be able to fill further fat offshore bank accounts with the proceeds of the loot that was creamed off!

And never mind that the fences and watchtowers would tend to rust and collapse shortly after handover and that the minefields would prove to be filled with duds. The main thing is that Victor Orbán, our modern day István Dobó, was able to preside over a super-impressive handover ceremony to the adulation of the Hungarian media and of his faithful followership in the electorate.

Dreams, dreams, wonderful dreams……

If only it were possible to con the idiots in Brussels to finance this little gem of a project……



Actually there is hardly anything remained intact without being ‘redefined’ by Orbán, so it would still generally mean the same in Orbanistan as anywhere else!

Just think about ‘freedom’, ‘democracy’, ‘liberalism’, ‘illiberal’, or even ‘fair play’, ‘justice’, ‘majority’, not to mention ‘culture’, ‘education’, ‘literate’ – and you’ll discover right away that these words mean something totally different in Hungary than elsewhere.

Somehow the Orbanian version of these – and many more – words serves only one purpose: to manipulate the populace into using the words with the altered or/and newly attached connotations and getting into line without even thinking on the reason.

The same with the ‘refugee’ this time. I’d bet that pretty soon this new “definition” going to be the standard, and you’ll hear it broadcasted all over the place.

Old and proven method, practically never fails.


How true.

Orwellian Newspeak.

Proven to be totally effective under the Nazis and the Communists, but a method of manipulating opinion and image that is also extensively employed by the advertising and public relations industries.



Now consider this: Putin in the background feeding from hundreds of billions of available cash, politicos to be bought in the US, Britain, Hungary, Greece…and lord knows where else.

If interest groups are considered a threat to democracy in the US, can you imagine how much trouble a Putin with hundreds of billions to throw around can do?


There’s something eerily similar between our Viktor and the Greek Prime Minister both turning to a vote of the citizenry. In our case, it’s Viktor doing the usual toying and make believe with the people–” Do you want the darkies to come and take your jobs or no?”

Now the Greek Prime Minister, rather than make the decision about ponying up for the country’s debt has put it to his people: “Do you want us to cut your pensions? Do you want to pay higher taxes?”

Both Prime Ministers are reducint the parliamentary/democratic systems in their countries to a mockery.

Somehow, this seems to have the sulferous odour of something created by the Pavlovians in the dark basements of the KGB…


@ petofi
June 27, 2015 at 7:19 pm

Very possible.

Anyway, neither Greece nor Hungary should ever have been accepted into the EU, nor Greece into the euro zone (and nor should Croatia, Serbia, Romania, Bulgaria or any other country further east or south).

And neither Hungary nor Greece should have been allowed to be any part of the Schengen zone.

Hungary is a typical Balkan country with Balkan values, and Greece is not just Balkan, but Levantine, with the values of the Levant. The de facto belief and value systems of both the Hungarians and the Greeks are totally incompatible with those of post-Christian social democratic Western and Northern Europe which form the core of the EU and the euro zone.

The Western and Northern Europeans can only blame themselves for the consequences of their misplaced idealism in respect of Hungary and Greece, exactly as for their naive multiculturalism in respect of the rapidly increasing numbers of Moslem colonies and colonists in their midst.


Nobody wants the scum of the world in their countries. Germans don’t want them , USA don’want them, same with Hungary, Romania, Greece or France etc. NOBODY WANTS TO BE INFESTED WITH THIS NON WHITE MUSLIM GARBAGE. Send them back and sink their boats!


Where ever you’re from, you scum – I hope they treat you the way you want others to be treated!

@Eva: please ban this racist creature!

seinean sabisan

“…two countries that do not have to accept any refugees from Greece and Italy: Bulgaria and Hungary. Bulgaria because it is the poorest country in the European Union and Hungary because …”

Bulgaria already has issues with the large number of Syrian refugees in the country. Apparently “Almost 15,000 Syrians have arrived in Bulgaria since last year to escape their country’s civil war, according to the U.N. refugee agency”. It is rather that than the fact that it is the poorest country in EU IMO.

See also :


On the one hand, Europeans cannot refuse unrestricted entry to desperate asylum seekers, however many there may be and whomever they might be, without flying in the face of their most cherished humanitarian and moral principles.

On the other hand, Europeans cannot allow unrestricted entry of desperate asylum seekers (who are mainly primitive tribal people from sub-Saharan Africa and the Greater Middle East), without ultimately bringing about the destruction of the hard-won stability and living standards of the post-Christian social democratic order in Europe.

The clash between these two propositions creates a psychotic situation for the Europeans, in which the desperate asylum seekers, who are willing to stake their very lives on their entry into Europe, are clearly presented with enormous opportunities for forcing the issues either by shaming the Europeans for rejecting their claims to asylum, or by causing the Europeans to wreck and ruin their hard-won social order by taking them in.

Either way a lose-lose proposition, and fudging the issues and procrastination are not going work much longer for the EU; something will have to give, and sooner rather than later.


For those who can read German:

A satirical “analysis” of Orbán’s acts re the refugees on SPAM (Spiegel online):
It starts with:
“Alle Flüchtlinge, die sich noch vorgestern in Ungarn aufgehalten hatten, seien über Nacht “entkommen”. “Wahrscheinlich sind sie jetzt gerade auf der Flucht nach Österreich, teilweise wohl auch nach Deutschland. Das ist sehr bedauerlich, hat aber andererseits den Vorteil, dass Ungarn jetzt wieder leer ist und jene Flüchtlinge zurücknehmen kann, die zu einem früheren Zeitpunkt über Ungarn nach Österreich und Deutschland entkommen sind”, so zitierte unsere Quelle den ungarischen Premier.

Loosely translated:

All refugees that were in Hungary managed to escape, probably to Austria and Germany.The advantage of this is that Hungary is empty again so we can take back again all those refugees that left Hungary for Germany and Austria a long time ago (meaning of course 1956 ) …


“..meaning of course 1956..”

Not necessarily! Up to ’89 people continuously tried and even managed to get somehow to the West, after ’89 the number skyrocketed. I have no fact to support this, but I dare say that the number of people ended up in Austria after ’56 is easily up in the higher five digit figures.