Demographic realities and Viktor Orbán’s ideas on immigration

Over the past thirty years Hungary has been sliding toward a demographic disaster. And the slide has only accelerated of late. In 2010 the population fell below 10 million. In the first five months of 2011 10% fewer babies were born and 2.7% more people died than during the same period a year earlier. The second Orbán government was keenly aware of the problem and tried, in its own way, to remedy the situation with all sorts of financial incentives, which didn’t work. In 2012 Fidesz MPs delivered optimistic speeches about the beginnings of a baby boom, only to have the Központi Statistisztikai Hivatal (Central Statistical Office) announce in May that 3.6% fewer babies had been born between January and May of 2012 than between January and May of 2011. Between 2010 and 2014 the country’s population decreased by 158,000. And that doesn’t count the 350,000-800,000, take your pick, mostly young people who are working abroad.

Despite the government’s program to entice young couples to get married early and produce at least two or three children, recent studies show that, in fact, both men and women are waiting longer before having their first child. And even if some miracle happened overnight and suddenly all the hospitals were filled with babies, it would be only a quarter of a century later that there would be any beneficial impact. A recent study by the Népességtudományi Intézet (Demographic Institute) predicts that, if current trends continue, by 2060 Hungary’s population will be under 8 million.

Of course, Hungary is not the only country in Europe with very a low birthrate, but according to Péter Mihályi, a professor of economics at Corvinus University, if we ignore the former Soviet republics, it is only Bulgaria that is in worse shape than Hungary in this respect. From government propaganda one gets the distinct impression that Viktor Orbán’s concerns stem from nationalistic considerations. A fear that can often be heard in right-wing circles is that Hungarian speakers will one day be virtually nonexistent and the language will disappear. Mihályi, by contrast, looks at the situation from the point of view of an economist and recommends systematic and well-directed immigration policies as a solution.

In 2001 Viktor Orbán himself realized that the steady decrease in the population and its concomitant aging could be effectively remedied only by inviting immigrants. In 2001 he delivered a speech before the Amerikai Kereskedelmi Kamara (AmCham) in which he outlined a plan according to which in the next five years Hungary could welcome several million immigrants. Otherwise, he said, the country could not maintain its rate of economic growth. He claimed at that point that “Hungary could easily provide livelihoods for 14 million people.” What kinds of people did Viktor Orbán have in mind? Since in connection with immigration he also talked about the forthcoming admission of Hungary to the European Union, he was perhaps thinking of western businessmen settling in Hungary in search of economic opportunities. He also pointed out that every year several thousand ethnic Hungarians from the neighboring countries settle in Hungary. He certainly didn’t have in mind Muslims from the Middle East or refugees from Africa.

Lately, one often hears about the hospitality offered to Croats and Serbs escaping the ravages of civil war in Yugoslavia. In 1991 about 50,000 people arrived from the northern Slavonian region of Crotia, adjacent to the Hungarian border. They were well looked after. A couple of years later, however, 16,000 Muslim Bosnian refugees reached Hungary, who apparently received a less hearty welcome. In a village along the Serbian border Péter Boross, who later became prime minister, announced in 1992, as minister of the interior, that “Hungary is full.” Why were the Bosniaks less welcome? The difference was the refugees’ religion and culture, as a 1994 study pointed out. The author lists all the difficulties Hungarian authorities encountered with the Muslim refugees. Perhaps it was not a coincidence that a year after the arrival of the Bosniaks, the Antall government amended the law on foreigners’ settling in Hungary to make it more stringent.

Refugees from Bosnia. These are the kinds of immigrants Hungary doesn't want

Refugees from Bosnia. These are the kinds of immigrants Hungary doesn’t want

A few years later Viktor Orbán made it quite clear that, although in theory he is in favor of immigration, that immigration should not come from non-Christian countries. The occasion was the refugee problem of Muslim Albanians expelled from Kosovo. Western politicians came to the rescue by offering to fly a certain number of these refugees to their own countries. At this point Orbán declared that “there will be no numerus clausus in Hungary.” All refugees who ask for admission to the country will be welcome. How they would get to Hungary he neglected to say. That’s why a commentator called this “generous” offer “perhaps the most cynical statement of the prime minister’s ten-month tenure.”

So, it is not really true, as most commentators suggest, that in fifteen years Orbán completely changed his opinion on immigration. No, he hasn’t changed a bit: he does not want to have Muslim riffraff in his Christian  country. He especially doesn’t want blacks from Africa in a pristine, white Hungary.

Apparently, despite all the propaganda to the contrary, the government is fully aware of the long-term effects of the current demographic trend. Attached to the 2016 budget is the latest government prediction that by 2034 the number of people living in Hungary will be less than 9 million. That is, if the balance between immigration and emigration is zero, something which, given the recent population movement, is unlikely.

This demographic trend will have serious consequences. First, there is the problem of a rapidly aging society. Fewer and fewer people must support a larger and larger number of pensioners. The number of children is rapidly decreasing. In 1990 there were 2.1 million children under the age of 14. By 2014 there are only 1.4 million. At the same time, the number of people over the age of 65 is growing. That will put an ever increasing pressure on the pension system, especially if the proposed referendum passes, which would allow men, just like women, to retire after 40 years of employment. Those who have only eight grades of education could theoretically retire with full benefits at the age of 54-56.

A decreasing and aging population also means a smaller domestic market, which puts a brake on economic growth. And, according to Mihályi, it limits job opportunities, especially for less educated people. Infrastructure, houses, apartments, tourist facilities, museums, football stadiums, restaurants and pubs will be underutilized. If the facilities and their offerings have fewer takers, prices must be raised. But there is a limit to raising prices. Enterprises can end up being unprofitable, and in this situation fewer people will start new businesses. These are some of the economic consequences of unfavorable demographics that people who keep talking about Hungary’s inability to take up immigrants don’t consider. They think the fewer the better. As Mihályi says, only children think that it is better to have fewer guests at a birthday party because then each of them will have a larger slice of the cake.

Given the huge differences in living standards between the east and west of the European Union, Orbán’s old dream of filling the country with West Europeans cannot materialize for a very long time, if ever. The prospect of ethnic Hungarians coming in great numbers is also unlikely. Romanian living standards are on the rise, and the Hungarians in Slovakia are quite satisfied. The Serbian situation is different. I just read that Serbian men and women in the city of Szabadka/Subotica, where the majority of the population is Hungarian-speaking, are madly learning Hungarian. They want to apply for Hungarian citizenship. Of course, not to settle there. One of the men who figures in the story is already in Berlin. So, Orbán cannot be that choosy.

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Member
There is also an ethnic time bomb in Hungary, which is worth to mention. The birthrate among gypsies is multiple times higher than non-gypsies. Approx. 6.0 vs. 1.3. Unfortunately, due to the poor treatment of the gypsy population and their miserable living conditions, the death rate is much higher and their average life span is quite a bit shorter, than among non-gypsies. Even so, the Hungarian gypsy population is slowly increasing, while the non-gypsy population is decreasing and it is accelerated by the exodus of Hungarians moving abroad. One of the results (and I speculate), that in a couple of decades, the ratio of gypsies and non-gypsies will reach a point of critical mass of about 20%. In a society, where a portion of the population is cast out, held at disadvantage, discriminated against, when this minority reaches the critical mass, they will confront the majority and begin to fight for their rights, if necessary using violence. The Civil Right Movement in the USA is a good examples, that no minority should be discriminated against, because the imbalance in any society leads to violent confrontations and justly so. Hungarians are the smartest people in the world, they think, so they… Read more »
petofi
Guest

Regarding Horn Gyula:

Horn Gyula – Metapedia
hu.metapedia.org/wiki/Horn_Gyula
Apr 23, 2015 – Horn Gyula ✡ 1932. július 5-én született Budapesten, +2013 június 19-én. Angyalföldi zsidó munkáscsaládból származik, édesapja, Horn …
‎Szülei – ‎Iskolák – ‎Pufajkás – ‎Diplomata

(The gist of this is: “Of a jewish, working class family from the district of Angyalfold…”)

So then…in light of his roots, Gyula Horn, apologizing on behalf of the Hungarian government–and the only Hungarian leader ever to do so–for war-time Hungary having sent 400,000 more jews to Auschwitz than the German nazis asked for, leaves more than a little sour taste in one’s mouth, don’t you think?

(And another classic case of a jew saving the Hungarians’ bacon…)

Guest

Building borders such as the wall to keep out immigrants, sets a dangerous precedent.

While the main intention is to keep “undesirable” people out, with Orbán’s evil government, how long will it be before new laws, which are passed willy-nilly almost every day, will also prevent movement going out?

Since the population is at a perilous count, and since government incentives to prevent emigration and the brain drain have not worked, how long will it be before he comes up with more hairbrained ideas about how to forcibly prevent anyone from going out?

Nothing is beyond the realm of possibilities with the present dictatorship, regardless of being in the EU, since it already flaunts many of its civil and statutory rights.

tappanch
Guest

Since Orban announced the building of the border fence, the number of daily illegal entries has more than doubled.

The daily number hovered around 500 through June 19, it is around 1500 now.

The Kosovo immigration peaked on February 6, with 1,696 illegal entries, then it went to zero within a week.

The new peak occurred during last weekend (1,662 on July 24), with the majority of the immigrants are from Afghanistan (due to their expulsion from Iran)

http://police.hu/hirek-es-informaciok/hatarinfo/elfogott-migransok-szama-lekerdezes?honap%5Bvalue%5D%5Byear%5D=2015&honap%5Bvalue%5D%5Bmonth%5D=7

Guest
The contrast between Hungary and Israel couldn’t be starker on the point of demographic realities. In contrast to Hungary, Israel is surrounded by a deadly ring of fire, which is for real, and not imaginary like Orbán’s: endless numbers of vile enemies seek its physical destruction; it is demonised by the international media and ostracised by the West European left, American academics and much of the Third World; it is riven by deadly internal conflicts along many fault lines; and it has a predilection for pursuing lunatic religious nationalist policies to the point of mindlessness. And yet, and yet. In contrast to Hungary, it is an enormously productive place, at the leading edge of high tech in many fields. Starting from literally nothing sixty-odd years ago. In contrast to Hungary, opinion surveys consistently report that despite all their endless problems, Jewish Israelis are by and large a happy lot, very high on internationally measured happiness scales. In contrast to Hungary, relatively large families predominate even among the secular population, and even larger ones among the religious. That, plus immigration ensures a constantly growing population, despite some emigration. In contrast to Hungary, many Jewish Israeli men and woman (as well as… Read more »
petofi
Guest

In my mind’s eye, I can see Latefor rushing to the pharmacy to replenish her stash of tranquilizers…

Latefor
Guest

Petofi – NO CIGAR!
Mike Balint describes a “perfect” society and Israel is far from perfect, even though I agree with most of his assessment about the country/people he obviously loves. I visited Israel in 2012 and yes, the Israelis have a positive mind set, most of them have an easy going “live for today” attitude but they also have many, many problems, like living with ongoing threats from neighboring countries which in turn puts a lot of stress on their young.
This blog is about Hungary, NOT about Israel – unless you want to provoke – but that’s another matter.
Comparing Israel to Hungary is almost laughable!

Guest

@Latefor
July 27, 2015 at 7:58 pm

I didn’t think it was off-topic to compare the demographic realities of Hungary and Israel on a number of relevant points. Why not?

Is there any good reason why Hungary could not be at the cutting edge of high-tech, like Israel, could not rapidly advance economically and in living standards, and absorb millions upon millions of immigrants in the process, as Israel has done, or have as many top universities and as many Nobel prize winners as Israel?

And tiny Israel (less than a quarter the size of Hungary) has achieved what it has achieved under heck of a lot more adverse circumstances than Hungary has ever faced. So why is Hungary so unable to perform and excel (except to sloganeer about it)?

Latefor
Guest

@Mike Balint – What you are implying in here that Hungarians are a bunch of useless dumb asses.
Once again, nobody in their right mind would compare the success of the Israelis to the struggling ex-communist Hungarians( communist until 1989).

As far as I know, Israel was always a FREE country. Israelis were always FREE to trade, FREE to study whatever they wanted, FREE to travel and FREE to take the best Jewish brains from any country in the world. (Please see mass Russian immigration after the collapse of communism).

Also, credit and respect to the International Jewish Community, Jews help each other (Hungarians are beginning to learn from them, about time) and provide ongoing support to Israel. BUT, with all due respect: who helps the Hungarians? Who is out there who strictly looks after the best interest of Hungary? How many billionaires are out there in the big wild world who would declare their heart felt support for Hungary above all else?

As far as “absorbing million of migrants” most of those migrants were/are Jewish migrants – even the Ethiopians – and we all know the problems different cultures can create.
Can you see now how unfair your comments are re: Hungary?

Guest
@Latefor July 28, 2015 at 1:51 am I don’t think my comments about Hungary are unfair at all. Hungary has been FREE for the past 26 (!!!) years. Since the regime change in 1989, Hungarians are FREE to trade, FREE to study whatever they want, FREE to travel and FREE to develop the best Hungarian brains, as well as attracting the best Hungarian expat brains from around the world, of which Hungarian Jewish expats are a substantial proportion. The Communist era cannot be used forever as an excuse for continuing present day failure and dead end, and the Horthy era is not exactly the best place to look for inspiration for future directions. And by the way, Israel has never been able to “take the best brains from the world”: Israel got the refugees, the unfortunates, the ideologically committed few, and those who, for one reason or another, could not or cannot make a go of it in their own birth countries. What Israel was and is really good at is fostering and nurturing the development of many great brains. Something that Hungary could do too, if it wished. In 26 years and with a hell of a lot better… Read more »
Latefor
Guest

@Mike Balint – I guess you would have to gain their trust to make them open up their hearts toward foreign investment. Keep an eye on the “economic hit-men” out there and Hungary could be a piece of heaven for honest, decent investors and Hungarians alike.

I would start with showing them some respect:
Stop with the ongoing name calling;
Stop belting the Hungarian character on the world stage and see what happens. I have nothing more to say.

Nádas
Guest
Hungary vs. Israel? What an absurd comparison. The Magyars rode into the Carpathian Basin 1100 years ago. European Zionists carved the modern state of Israel out of Palestine through violence, terrorism, and broken UN agreements in the late 1940’s. You wrote: “In contrast to Hungary, Israelis are not good haters, they don’t manufacture enemies to hate, and do not hate their enemies”? Unbelievable nonsense. Israel was built on hate, terrorism, illegal land-grabs and ethnic cleansing which continue to this day. Israel is in perpetual violation of international law, the Geneva Conventions, and numerous UN Security Council resolutions. Israel has received well over $100 billion from the U.S. over the decades as a result of political pressure. If it weren’t for the Israel Lobby’s death grip on Congress, the Jewish state might have been sanctioned into civility by now. And Israel is now pushing once again with all its might for America to go to war with Iran, a war in which Israel would have no skin – financial or real – in the game. Only Americans and Iranians would die, and only Israel would benefit. And your cheery description of the Israeli people, who “don’t just whinge and complain, but… Read more »
spectator
Guest

“The Magyars rode into the Carpathian Basin 1100 years ago.”

-Which was totally devoid of life that time, naturally they didn’t used violence to conquer the place to take as their own – that’s what you’re saying?

Just wondering, if you really meant what you wrote…

Nádas
Guest

Did you find anything that wasn’t factual in what I wrote?

Guest
@Nádas July 27, 2015 at 3:17 pm The comparison is not as absurd as you might think. Both countries are ethno-nationalists in their political orientation, both have formed as a result of conquests, both have problems with their neighbours, and both find it difficult to cope with challenges posed by internal ethnic minorities. And not least Greater Hungary had a nationalities problem not unlike that of modern Israel. As to hating, my own many years experience is that Jewish Israelis really do not hate the Arabs at all. Fear mixed with strong dislike, yes. Contempt, maybe. Hate, not at all. So my statement is based on fact that can be empirically checked out and tested any day, any time: it is definitely not some “unbelievable nonsense”. The issues of smoking and the road toll in Israel are too trivial to merit a serious response, and as to the 20% of Palestinian Arabs in Israel’s population, I did allude to the many deadly internal fault lines in Israeli society, of which this is one. One can only hope that in the longer run, Israel would be more successful in handling its nationalities problem than the late, great Kingdom of Hungary has… Read more »
Nádas
Guest
Let me ask again, MB: did you find anything in what I wrote that was not factual? Calling them “non sequiturs” does not change historical facts. On the other hand, there is plenty in your posts that is unsubstantiated and is simply your opinion and/or wishful thinking. But you’re right, this is not a forum on the Middle East, it is about Hungary. You threw Israel into the discussion with what I still maintain is a comparison of apples and oranges. I could go down your list and refute item by item, but instead let me just deal with the commonly mistaken notion that Israel was born out of the Holocaust, and with your idea that ethnic tensions in Greater Hungary were comparable to those in Israel/Palestine. Zionism, as we all know, was conceived in Budapest in the late 19th century by Tivadar Herzl. The overarching plan was always to take ALL the land of Palestine for a Jewish state, and to take it by violent means and without compensation to its rightful Arab Christian and Muslim owners, who were not expected to simply give up their homes and walk away. This is an ironclad principle of Zionism. I would… Read more »
Guest
@Nádas July 28, 2015 at 6:44 am I wonder what on earth possessed Herzl to come up with the idea of Zionism in the late 19th century? Could it be that the then rapidly emerging Europe-wide violent nationalist antisemitism had something to do with it, particularly in the pogroms-riven lands of the Russian Empire? And by the way, it was not in Hungary, but in France, that he came up with the odd notion that persecuted Jewry ought to have their own national homeland, in response to the Dreyfus affair, which demonstrated to him that it was futile to expect full acceptance of Jews in even West European nation states. Whether he was jumping to premature conclusions with this, and whether he was right, wrong or indifferent about this matter, that is how the Zionist movement actually started. The idea of Jewish settlement in what was then the Palestine district of the Ottoman Empire (on both banks of the Jordan river) involved solely and only the purchase of land from Arab owners willing to sell it, and settling Jews – in particular those from the pogroms-riven lands of the Russian Empire – strictly and solely on lands thus legitimately purchased… Read more »
Guest
@Nádas July 28, 2015 at 6:44 am And by the way, where on earth did you get the information that Israel killed tens of thousands of Palestinian Arabs over its 67 years of existence? This is just plain false. Had Israel really done so, there wouldn’t be one and a half million Arab citizens there today, or 20% of the population, enjoying a hell of a lot more freedom and lot higher living standards than their fellow Arabs in neighbouring countries. Clearly, Israel has shown incredible incompetence in “ethnically cleansing” itself of Arabs – it it was indeed its intention to do so, which it patently was not. And there wouldn’t be two and a half million Arabs on the West Bank either, or another one and a half million in Gaza. And by the way, the high Pal casualty rate in the Gaza clashes over the past few years are solely attributable to the human shield tactics of Gazan Arabs in their asymmetric war against the Jewish State, and to nothing else. I can assure you that if the Arabs of Gaza were busy building a second Singapore or Hong Kong on the Mediterranean, instead of pursuing their futile… Read more »
Guest

@Mike Balint
July 28, 2015 at 11:33 am

Correction of error above: six thousand is one percent, and not ten percent of six hundred thousand.

Guest

Re: ‘But we shall see, we shall see
As the blind man said to the sightless, as they tottered across the busy freeway”

Mike…I’d say Israel isn’t afraid of anything. They’re a tough bunch. They’ll figure it out. Comes with the ‘territory’. They certainly are not fools and look steps ahead. Always on the ball I’d say. No other alternative considering the surroundings.

Guest

@Rikard
July 28, 2015 at 2:23 pm

True.

Guest
(continued from Mike Balint, July 27, 2015 at 8:05 am) And before anyone gets the idea that Israel is some kind of a giant country with giant resources, let me hasten to add that for all practical purposes the actual size of Israel is about half the size of the Western half of Hungary (Dunántúl), and most of that is desert or unproductive hill country. The Jewish population is mainly made up refugees or descendants of refugees from Arab and European countries. And yes, since the Yom Kippur War (1973), the Americans have contributed very substantially to Israel’s defense expenditures, which in effect meant subsidies to purchase American equipment and thus provide business and employment for American armaments manufacturers. However, with the rapid growth of the Israeli economy, especially over the past decade or so, the significance and importance of this American support is rapidly decreasing. The bottom line is that whilst this American aid was of great help in managing Israel’s defense needs for three decades or so after the Yom Kippur War, the end of the day it was Israel that pulled itself up by the bootstraps economically, financially and militarily to the proud point it reached today.… Read more »
István
Guest
Eva I have to say I think your statement “the Hungarians in Slovakia are quite satisfied,” is a rather broad generalization. The Round Table of Hungarians in Slovakia umbrella organization of 104 Hungarian NGOs continues to document violations of Slovakia’s State Language Act. The Hungarian language newspaper Ujszo continually documents problems Hungarians face in Slovakia. Overall the Hungarian population of Slovakia has declined and it is indicative with at least a moderate level of dissatisfaction in that population (see in English http://bgazrt.hu/_dbfiles/blog_files/9/0000004039/Laszlo%20Gyurgyik%20-%20The%20demographic%20trends%20of%20the%20ethnic%20Hungarian%20population%20of%20Slovakia.pdf ). There is also no question that things have gotten much better than they were under Vladimír Mečiar’s administration between 1994 and 1998 when Hungarian street signs from villages populated entirely by Hungarians were removed and replaced them with Slovak-language signs. Slovak authorities even went so far to pass a law requiring that Hungarian woman marrying a Hungarian man add the suffix “-ova” to her name, as is the custom among Slovaks. Hungarians have rebelled against the prospect of such amalgams as “Nagyova”, “Bartokova”, “Kodályova”, and “Petöfiova”. The Party of the Hungarian Community in Solvakia while it is a deeply divided party with elements linked to Orban is more or less ideologically a legitimate part of the European… Read more »
tappanch
Guest

Taxes and mandatory social contributions on the minimum wage among the OECD countries:

Hungary, 35%
Latvia 27%

comment image

Guest

Nepszabadsag comments today on the picture in yesterdays HS post.
http://nol.hu/kereses?search_txt=flora&ujkeres=1

spectator
Guest

Thanks Jean P!
Great entertainment value!

Webber
Guest

OT – Meanwhile, LMP has again presented lustration legislation (i.e. to open communist-era secret police files). This LMP’s the ninth attempt. Fidesz is expected to vote this down, as it did on the previous eight occasions. After the first rejection of lustration, Fidesz promised it would present its own legislation – by 30 Nov. 2011. Never happened.
http://index.hu/belfold/2015/07/27/kilencedszer_fut_neki_schiffer_az_ugynoknyilvanossagnak_es_keszul_a_tizedikre/

tappanch
Guest

LMP is in cahoots with Fidesz in my opinion. Fidesz will say YES now or next time, after a successful purge of the archives of documents incriminating Orban and his buddies.

LMP is supposed to be the big ecological, “green” party. I did not hear a word of protest from them about the clear cutting of the Dagaly spa !

Today I took a photo of the cadaver of a beautiful, healthy, large plane tree, cut during the weekend. I heard from another employee that Orban and his buddies put a news blackout on their activities and plans in the place of Dagaly.

Webber
Guest

Fidesz will never say “yes” to lustration. I’d bet quite a large sum on that.

spectator
Guest

In my opinion Orbán isn’t really interested to solve the problem regarding demographic decrease, his only interest is to make out the most of his time as the number one decision maker. None of his decisions aiming the true benefit of “the country” as a whole, only for certain groups, and even this is only in the best case. You hardly can find traces of really long term thinking, besides putting his own vassals in key positions with long term mandates, just in case.

Only his own interest what matters, about time to realise it…

Keeping out non Christians from the country guarantees endless support from the narrow minded majority, particularly with the help of openly spread lies and negative propaganda, as we heard from him lastly. There is no such thing what he wouldn’t utilise, use and abuse for his goal.
And the populace just love it: finally something what/whom we can hate together again!
Well done, Viktor!

Member
OT Sentience @tappanch, your skillful and thorough detective work is wonderful and your rich and telling data are always eye-opening. I am one of your longstanding admirers. I also agree completely with you that Orban’s ecological rape of the Hungarian environment, including the latest felling of the wonderful old trees in Dagaly, is deplorable. But may I ask that reference to “the cadaver of a beautiful, healthy, large plane tree” be held in abeyance until Orbanians and non-Orbanians alike put an end to the abominable creation and consumption of “the cadavers of beautiful, healthy animals,” who, besides being alive, and beautiful, like trees, also feel, and suffer, unlike trees? (Before anyone replies that this unspeakable abomination is necessary for human health and survival, please take the trouble to learn the facts. I, for example, have not consumed such a cadaver for over half a century and am in perfect health; and there are more and more (not-much)-younger people today who have never touched such a cadaver in their entire lives, and are likewise in impeccable — and innocent — health. So the cruelty is both wanton and gratuitous.) (And although I’m sure @tappanch would not do it, I hope the… Read more »
Guest

Re: “Hungarians are the smartest people in the world, they think, so they don’t learn from other people’s mistakes, they don’t copy good examples”

Perhaps a major major flaw in the ‘smarty pants’ country? My own belief is that immigration discussion married to analysis on the future of the country sure is disjointed. One, there seems to be no serious analysis and two, there’s only one track operating in Hungary and its diverting everything outside and away.

So who is coming in to help Hungary with its problems? Concern about ‘traffic’ direction in a sense is really what’s driving the country’s future now. Talk about not being ‘smart’. High powered thinking looks to be the exception rather than the rule in that neck of the woods. It is telling to see Magyar heads simply used as dumb hat racks. Following an ideology sure can kill a state.

Guest

Don’t know if this has been mentioned before:

A sometimes disturbing video on the “Young Jobbik” with lots of interviews where young Hungarian students declare that they dislike all politicians but Jobbik the least and that (of course …) Gypsies don’t want to integrate and produce children just for the money etc ….

Lots of Horthy t-shirts, maps of “Greater Hungary”, marching in black uniforms etc – reminded me too much of the Nazis, though of course everybody asked declared: No, no, we’re not NeoNazis!

I couldn’t make it until the end yet.

Rikard
Guest

As I was watching I have to say only two words came into my mind….’useful idiots’. Someone should do a study on the etiology of modern day Magyar thought. Can the sum of its history continue to develop this kind of intellectual venture? And why down this particular destructive path? I wish I was smarter to come up with solutions.

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