Viktor Orbán in Brussels: Success or failure?

There is huge confusion in the Hungarian media over Viktor Orbán’s success or lack thereof at the EU summit yesterday.

The Hungarian prime minister arrived in Brussels with a plan which, in his opinion, could have solved the unchecked influx of refugees coming mainly from Turkey and entering the European Union via Greece. He made sure that the world knew about the details of his plan, which he revealed while visiting Bavaria’s ultra-conservative prime minister, Horst Seehofer, ahead of the summit.

Orbán tried to portray the summit as a gathering of the leaders of the EU member states to discuss his proposals. After the marathon meeting ended, he triumphantly announced that, with the exception of his idea of a pan-European defense of Greece’s borders, all his proposals had received a favorable reception.

Yes, the idea of a common defense of Greece’s borders was vetoed, but that was not the only one that received a less than sympathetic reception. Orbán’s suggestion to set up “hot spots” outside of the EU borders also fell on deaf ears: there will be hot spots in Greece and Italy.

We heard nothing about the reaction to Orbán’s suggestion for “special partnership arrangements” with Turkey and Russia. I’m not sure what kind of a special partnership Orbán had in mind, but at the moment Turkey is alarmed over the Russian military buildup in Syria and I doubt that the European Union would want to get involved in that quagmire.

Orbán also demanded an official EU list of “safe” countries since the question of whether Serbia is a safe country in terms of being able to handle the registration and maintenance of large numbers of refugees is not immaterial from the Hungarian point of view. It is, of course, possible that such a list is in the works, but for the time being no decision has been made. As things stand, Serbia, as far as the EU is concerned, is not a safe country.

Finally, Orbán demanded worldwide quotas, which was also discarded by the representatives of the member states. For a man who furiously rejects quotas for his own country to suggest quotas for extra-EU countries is quite something. In fact, no quotas are necessary because countries are already offering to take in refugees. The United States has said it will take 25,000 Syrians. Canada has a commitment to resettle 10,000 Syrians by September 2016. This is in addition to 23,000 Iraqis. Australia will take 12,000 Syrians and Brazil 5,000. One could go on. I’m also certain that the United States will provide financial assistance to the United Nations for the aid of refugees staying in camps in the countries neighboring Syria.

A determined Viktor Orbán in Brussels / MTI / EPA Photo: Stephanie Lecocq

A determined Viktor Orbán in Brussels / MTI / EPA Photo: Stephanie Lecocq

In any case, despite his declaration of victory in Brussels, after the summit ended Orbán seemed by turns downtrodden and defiant. Because of the EU’s reluctance to defend Greece’s borders, Hungary has only two choices, he said. Either it continues to build the fence to keep refugees out of Hungary or it simply lets the refugees go to Austria. Although recent news from Hungary indicates that the fence building is continuing, not just along the Schengen border between Croatia and Hungary but also along the Slovenian-Hungarian border, I would be reluctant to predict the final move in this “fencing game” between Hungary and the EU. Tomorrow Viktor Orbán is paying a visit to his arch-enemy, Werner Faymann, chancellor of Austria, who is the greatest opponent of fences and who said that he is ready to take any number of refugees from Hungary.

If Orbán goes ahead with his current plans and orders the construction of a fence between Slovenia and Hungary, his rationale for building the fence in the first place evaporates. Until now he has piously claimed that the erection of the fence is for the sole purpose of defending the borders of Europe. Surely, a fence between Slovenia and Hungary serves only one purpose: to save Hungary from the immigrants. If Orbán decides to extend his fence northward between two Schengen countries he will be revealing his true intentions. I’m not sure he is ready to go that far.

On the other hand, János Lázár just announced that the Hungarian government is contemplating joining Slovakia in mounting a legal challenge to the refugee quotas agreed upon at the meeting of the ministers of interior despite the protestation of the Czech Republic, Hungary, Slovakia, and Romania. So, it seems that Viktor Orbán returned from Brussels with a renewed determination to fight any attempt to develop a common EU policy.

Meanwhile he is playing with fire just south of Hungary. It wasn’t so long ago that the Serbs and Croats were at war with one another, and now under the pressure created by Orbán’s fence the two countries are at loggerheads. Border controls have been introduced between the two countries, and they are engaged in a full-fledged trade war. Some people with Serbian passports were turned back at the border by Croat officials. It would be advisable for Orbán to stop his war of independence because it could have serious repercussions not just within the European Union but also in the Balkans, the powder keg of Europe.

Viktor Orbán seems to be endangering the stability of the region and sowing discord among the member states of the European Union for one reason only: to bolster the popularity of his party and ensure his desire for a perpetual premiership. At the moment he is ready to pay any price for that political victory at home. Unless someone stops him.

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Brian
Guest

Orban ..One of the best minds in europe,,!!!

Guest

Orban is the J. R. Ewing of Europe. ” He is depicted as a covetous, egocentric, manipulative and amoral oil baron with psychopathic tendencies,who is constantly plotting subterfuges to plunder his foes and their wealth.” (wikipedia) Until he is is on the scene we never get bored, and always find topics to discuss. So, just lean back and enjoy the show.

Guest

There’s not much to enjoy for the common folks here in Hungary – maybe for the proud owners of a tobacco shop or other Fidesz mafiosi …
Our neighbours all worry about the next day/the next month …

Brian
Guest

I think you just described us forren politics,,and not orban,,if you understand german here a very good link,to see what the majority of austrian and German poulation think,http://www.ortneronline.at/?p=36980

Guest

This link leads to an extreme right wing site – lunatics!

Member

Luckily not what they think, just a few

Guest

Totally OT but (hopefully) funny:
“Until he is on the scene” surely should be “while …”
Seems a typical Hungarian mistake – my wife also makes it …

antipuppet
Guest

deceiving, dishonest, betraying…

he has a special relationship to Putin and Erdogan. he is their puppet.

spectator
Guest

“Orban ..One of the best minds in europe,,!!!”

-To study, how can a humanoid creature functioning without an ounce of Humanity and morality in mostly human societies…
He is the best for the purpose, indeed.

Sandor Lengyel
Guest

This could be a prejudicial view, though the facts are correct.
For a more balanced view I recommend:
http://nol.hu/belfold/mar-latjuk-a-partot-1565293
NOL is a leftist newspaper, anti orban, and as such cannot be blamed for pro Orban prejudice.
If you do not know hungarian :-(, use Google translate and j

History101
Guest

Most Hungarians think that the Orban regime is a Putin plantation.

Nádas
Guest

And yet most Hungarians agree (whether they’ll say so publicly or not) with his intention to keep the massive flow of migrants out of Hungary. In the coming weeks, the same will probably be true in the neighboring countries as well.

Guest

Re: ‘Most Hungarians think that the Orban regime is a Putin plantation’

Could be right considering how he maneuvers within the EU. Vlad will be seen here this Sunday on 60 Minutes. Mr. Rose will have him in the chair. 60 Minutes certainly will give him a great seat to present himself to the American public. Many will see the Russian leader. From what I’ve already seen of the interview he really does appreciate America’s ‘creativity’ in its work. Not surprised at that because the country is getting hacked to the death by the Chinese and his guys. They swipe and take five finger discounts like hell but do not contribute. We always give them creative ‘food’ for thought.

Lajos Renner
Guest

Well, when you say MOST than you must mean that most leftist anti-Orban Hungarians, as Orban still enjoys the suppport of the majority of Hungarians living in Hungary. The strongest opposition are in Canada, USA, wherever. They really know what is good for Hungary. LOL.

Member

I try to decipher what you wrote. I still have a hard time.
When you say “leftist anti-Orban” what you really trying to do is to divide Hungarians, aren’t you? It certainly worked for Orban. Every time someone does not agree with him his whole team calls the person leftist, jew, liberal, anti-Hungarian. Take your pick Lajos. You certainly learnt the best from your master. woof LOL

Lajos Renner
Guest

@ Some1 …You got me. I knew sooner or later you would. Whether you have a hard time or not it is unimportant. The question is if you have a GOOD time? I do. I love your attempts of skating out of your trap surrounding your big word MOST….
Now let me give you more ammunition …. I learnt from the best masters.
I went to Rakosi’s kindergarten, Gero’s elementary, Kadar’s high school, Cinege’s Military Academy, Marxista University after service, and retired as a free thinker. So when it comes to debating, I can defend either side of any issue and beat the same. Make sense of it friend lol

Member
I find it hilarious that after going to Rakosi’s kindergarten, Gero’s elementary, Kadar’s high school, Cinege’s Military Academy, Marxista University you think you can convince anyone that you retired as a “free thinker”, When you have a regime that controls every aspect of what you hear, how you hear it, what is taught in schools and said in speeches, you don’t even know what free is, just what you are told freedom is…….by the very ones who claim to you there is freedom but never give you the freedom to chose. Sounds to me that you simply are a victim of lifelong brainwashing. You also claim to be able to debate any side of any issue, how is this possible when you have been fed propaganda your entire life? To someone like you I don’t think you will ever see any sense in anything of opposing views because you never question or resist any of the propaganda, do you? You outed yourself my friend when you put everyone with an opposing view into a lump category calling them “leftist, Orban-hating”, when really people who love their country are simply wanting the same things for their people and country. The brainwashed… Read more »
Member

Thank you for this Liz Aucoin, you are way more eloquent than me. Very well said.

Lajos Renner
Guest
@Liz Aucoin … and what is it exactly … “I just want to make sure you know that it is obvious.” I guess you met God and He gave you the Books, so you can proclame what is and what is not obvious. And you are telling me that I was brainwashed? You are brainwashing yourself into knowing everything in absolute terms. But I enjoyed your comment nevertheless. Especially your judgements… Oh they are so entertaining … “You also claim to be able to debate any side of any issue, how is this possible when you have been fed propaganda your entire life? To someone like you I don’t think you will ever see any sense in anything of opposing views because you never question or resist any of the propaganda, do you?” I just loved this. You must have been with me 24/7 for the last 70 years. To your credit, you are nice in your opposition which I am not used to on this site. Perhaps you did not read how the sysop called me liar, others labeled me racist, hater, conehead, …. which seems to be their forte. Unable to debate so they insult. Not you and… Read more »
Member

Then please put something together that is reasoned and thought through with, if possible, some supporting sources. We want to understand Hungary, not fall into some internecine struggle. Orban’s biggest failure, which is why he will never be taken seriously, is not the content of what he says, but how he says it. Though, not all, some of what he tries to present would be listened to by the “west”, he behaves like some sort of clown who would be laughed at were it not so serious. In a debate, you need to be able to stand on the other side of the fence to see how your opponent thinks. If not, you will never be able to frame your points in way they can be received.
He is so much within his own little world / ego, he just antagonises the EU. The likes of Slovakia will drop him as soon as he has served their purpose and just leave Hungary even more isolated.
Since Mathias, it is arguable that Hungary has continually picked leaders who served their own interests rather than that of the country. My worry is that he is just another.

Sandor Lengyel
Guest

But “clowns” do have their day. See Donald Trump. I guess it is a “revolution” to the other PC extreme, when people are afraid to state a possible solution, because it can be PC incorrect.
I do not necessarily agree with Orban’s style. I prefere T. Roosevelt, who said “Talk softly and carry a big stick”. Orban sometimes does the opposite. However, often he is right in what he says. Since Eva wrote her opinion, more and more it appears that what Orban said was right. whether he “chickens” out, that is another question.

Webber
Guest

Sandor Lengyel, you wrote:
“more and more it appears that what Orban said was right”
Where, outside Hungarian media and (in Europe) extreme right circles does it appear that way?
Enlighten us, please.
We in the West are so misled about our own perceptions of Orban…. All we can see is how much everyone disagrees with him, except for some lunatics whom only a tiny minority supports.
Since you are so obviously convinced that the West is admitting the error of its ways and the ultimate correctness of the Great O’s vision, please demonstrate to us how, through our disgust, we all really adore the Great O.
The fülke Revolution must go forward, comrade – show us how it is conquering the West

Sandor Lengyel
Guest
Webber
Guest

Yes, we all know about the Bavarian CSU’s stance.
But of course, CSU does not enjoy the support of the majority of Germans. I’m still waiting for evidence of mainstream support. Can you provide any?
🙂

Guest

Lajos R wrote:
“Orban still enjoys the suppport of the majority of Hungarians living in Hungary.”
Afaik, Fidesz never got 50% of the votes in parliament elections, so?
And in the 44% or so they got were included many votes from Hungarians living in other countries (Romania etc) – so one knows which percentage of votes Fidesz got in Hungary itself.
So, again a lie – or rather a really stupid lie, because it’s so easy to counter!

Sandor Lengyel
Guest

The problem with most people, that because of their political prejudice cannot see the facts.
The facts are that the Fidesz popularity is the highest in the last 12 months., the MSZP from opposing the Fidesz went to positive neutrality, in Austria the conservatives and radical right is in the first and second place.
Whether one like it, (I do) or not, does not change the facts. It is hard to fight against something if one closes one’s eyes.

stone
Guest
“It wasn’t so long ago that the Serbs and Croats were at war with one another, and now under the pressure created by Orbán’s fence the two countries are at loggerheads. Border controls have been introduced between the two countries, and they are engaged in a full-fledged trade war.” I find it incredibly stupid to blame a fence in Hungary for a trade war between Croatia and Serbia. I mean when you look at a map it is obvious that Croatia can transport all the refugees to Hungary and Slovenia. Even if Hungary finishes the fence Croatia will then still be able to transport all of them into Slovenia. Croatia does not have ANY reason to start a war with Serbia trade or otherwise. This is really simple. There can simply be no reason for the Croatian madness. What do they want to achieve by attacking Serbia? They want to avoid transporting the refugees to Slovenia to save on costs of trains? This is the type of solidarity that Croatia shows to the refugees? They attack Serbia hoping to avoid transport somehow? They are acting like a child and not a country. They do not even give anything to the… Read more »
Zongora
Guest
OT: Hungary is the Guest of Honour at this year’s Göteborg Book Fair in Sweden, the largest literary event in the Nordic region. Yesterday (Thursday) the Russian-American journalist and writer Masha Gessen spoke at the official opening of the Hungarian stand and expressed her critical views of the Hungarian government’s policies. The Hungarian delegates, including István Íjgyártó, whose job title in English is Minister of State for Cultural and Science Diplomacy, and Judit Hammerstein, the director of the Balassi Institute, walked out on Gessen’s speech. Here’s a Swedish TV news report with Masha Gessen speaking in English: http://www.svt.se/kultur/bok/ungrare-lamnade-invigningen-i-protest The Hungarian ambassador to Sweden is also interviewed (in Swedish). A number of Swedish authors and translators also engaged in a silent protest, “turning their backs” on Hungary’s policy towards refugees. Sorry I don’t have time to translate these Swedish newspaper articles into English: http://www.dn.se/dnbok/ungrare-lamnade-massan-i-protest/ and http://www.gp.se/kulturnoje/bokmassan/1.2843453-masha-gessens-skarpa-kritik-mot-tema-ungern Several big names of Hungarian literature are boycotting the book fair because they do not want to be associated with the government’s cultural policies: Péter Esterházy, Péter Nádas and László Krasznahorkai (though some are saying Esterházy cancelled due to genuine illness). http://www.gp.se/kulturnoje/bokmassan/1.2843276-ungerns-framsta-forfattare-bojkottar-bokmassan Sorry to hijack this thread, but I don’t know if any of this… Read more »
Guest

Re: Goteborg Book Fair..

Great to see Magyar lit and its authors up high on the tables. And if anything I have to say VO, that great ‘democrat’, on his way out from criticism directed at him will perhaps try to go after the Magyar publishing houses if he hasn’t contemplated it already. I do believe he is a man too too sensitive to the incisive opinions of people who have the right to speak and write of their minds. And thank God for books where words put together uniquely skewer the pretensions of leaders who take their countries on trips to scary precipices.

And seeing the Pope here getting great adulation by the nation puts a contrast between him , a spiritual and moral leader with VO a secular one but allegedly in thought ‘connected’ to Francis due to beliefs. What a fake out when it comes to the former’s values. The Pope unfortunately has to deal with a black sheep in his corral. And it sure looks tough to get VO to be a ‘social Catholic’. He probably will be Francis’ headache and the EU for some time to come.

gdfxx
Guest

As far as I know, Orban is not Catholic, he belongs to the Hungarian Reform Church. Traditionally the two denominations dislike each other, especially from the Reform side.

Guest

Re: ‘Orban is not Catholic…belongs to the Hungarian Reform Church’…denominations dislike each other’

Well there you go. I ‘d suggest VO perhaps doesn’t have the extent of say ‘ecumenism’ that Francis would have in interfaith affairs. Of course, the Pope doesn’t want to convert the fellow. I’d think Francis believes even if VO is of a group say not ‘Catholic’ nevertheless what he supposedly believes in encompasses ‘Christian’ qualities. But he fails to show it since namely he appears to suffer from ‘insincerity’ in his alleged beliefs. Something from the great poet Robert a Frost:

“There is such a thing as sincerity. It is hard to define but it is probably nothing more than your highest liveliness escaping from a succession of dead selves. Miraculously. It is the same with illusions. Any belief you sink into when you should be leaving it behind is an illusion. Reality is the cold feeling on the end of the trout’s nose”

VO’s issue seems to be he is under an illusion. He looks as if he is blind to the problems of the age and can’t recognize it while wriggling on the hook. He is arguably taking the country onto a road to who knows where.

gdfxx
Guest

You overreact, as many other times. All I wanted to say that Orban does not belong to the pope’s corral. (“The Pope unfortunately has to deal with a black sheep in his corral. “). Obviously, I have to szajaba ragjam (I am not sure how to translate this) to some…

Member

That certainly did not stop Orban to take his whole family to his Holiness when the opportunity rose.

gdfxx
Guest

No, it did not. Nothing stops him from anything…

Guest

Re: ‘Szajaba Ragjam’

Sounds like a new title for Viktor…Angol translation….;-)….I would think he’s in a bit of a ‘ragjam’ too..

Lajos Renner
Guest

Mr. Szijjártó and Ms. Hammerstein did the right thing. It is typical that issues are hijacked by people when they got the mic. This is a reflection on the host and not the guest.

Guest

Re: LajosRenner: …”issues hijacked by people when they got the mic’

The following bit is something where ‘life’ has a chance of imitating ‘art’… I give you ‘Howard Beale’…When people get a ‘voice’ crazy things can happen…some if film is in their life may have seen this satire…

http://youtu.be/AS4aiA17YsM

Member

I am sure they were Jewish, anti-Hungarian, liberals, secret Americans who are trying to take down Orban. Must be something like that.

Lajos Renner
Guest

@ Some1 … No my friend, those are the intelligent species. This bitch was simply a lesbian.

Sandor Lengyel
Guest

Do not forget György (George) Konrád, liberal writer, well known in Germany, and an Orban critic, agreed with Orban’s immigration policies. You always find oppinions pro and contra.
And yes in the Orban dictatorship 🙂 we were well informed of the above.

Guest

I don’t know if it’s a failure but Guy Verhofstadt, leader of ALDE in the European Parliament, has asked the European Commission to start the procedure to remove Hungary’s voting right.

In Dutch but you can use Google translate:
http://www.demorgen.be/buitenland/europese-liberalen-willen-hongarije-stemrecht-in-raad-afnemen-a2465246/

spectator
Guest

About time!
In my opinion threatening Croatia with veto is a clear case of misuse of the EU membership. Besides of deliberately ignoring not only the very basic principles, but a number of explicite law as well.

Lajos Renner
Guest

Typical … if you do not agree with us we take away your right to say it.
Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Rakosi, Castro, Saddam, Khadafi and now … Guy Verhofstadt.

This is the way to real (communist) democracy. Our way or the hiway…. Bravo Dutch

Guest

You can say whatever you like – but you can’t expect the EU to
– do it your way and
– finance you even.
Of course kicking out Orbán out of the EU would be the best solution, but that’s not easy under EU rules …
Btw, troll, what do you think of the tobacco shops and other mafia stuff in Hungary?

Lajos Renner
Guest

@Wolfi … I am speechless. How fast Orban learned from Gyurcsany. Do you know how Fleto acquired the Government Retreat in Oszod? Well as I always say, power corrupt. If I had a say in who steels what in Hungary I would organize a lottery like the Green Card in the US. The winner can take a chunk of the common wealth. But there is a historical good here. As (I am sure) you know our Country was robbed by the Tatars, Toroks, Oszraks, Germans, Russians, finally Hungarians are cleaning up…. Hajrá magyarok …

Member

Finally, we can agree on something. The whole Orban philosophy summed up in a few sentence. Orban , the atheist, I mean the religious liberal, I mean conservative freedom fighter, I mean the one who hired people to clap for him when he speaks,…. Oh I m getting so confused. Help me out ladies, is he a liberal now, a communist, or what is he. I am having a hard time to follow. You must refer top him as the communist, I guess that is what you mean.

Lajos Renner
Guest

@SOME 1 … Please do not second guess me. You have enough trouble figuring out your own thoughts if you had some at all. But I enjoyed your gibberish.

Member

Again, you cannot see the forest for the trees, this is not taking your right away to say it, you can say anything you want. This does not obligate any other countries to hear it. When you join a club, agree to share funds on the basis that each member of the club adhere to certain rules, when one member suddenly appears to have infiltrated the club by lying about their intentions, they have the right to kick you out of the club. However, even after being kicked out of the club, you still have the right to say whatever the hell you like, at home, abroad, to whoever will hear it. Yes, this is democracy. The communist democracy you are referring to, but actually are supporting is that you think people should be FORCED to hear and accept your point of view and your political agenda. FORCING the EU to hear and accept and adopt ideas into a system that would go against the core values of the club, is ludacris. Especially if the majority agree, that is democracy. You don’t appear to understand freedom very well.

bimbi
Guest
One suspects that the Orban position is best summed up in the last paragraph of the blog. Mr. Orban seeks to present himself as one of the principal leaders of Europe (even if devoid of anything but self-serving principles) – and therefore that His plan should be discussed at the summit. MTI likes this approach (does it have a choice?) and it continues as one of the Fidesz policy propaganda themes. Outside Magyarorszag one doubts that Orban is seen as anything other than an unpleasant pimple at the rear end of the EU. As to the fences, one just has to ask which Orban relative or party favourite has the contract for the supply of razor wire? This is instant millionaire (Euro) country! Even though the fences have shown themselves to be useless, building continues, their sole worth to date being to provide training for TEK forces in “crowd control”, i.e., the indiscriminate use of water cannon, clubs and pepper spray, so that TEK will be ready if and when Hungarians should chance to be the target. But it does not matter so long as Mr. Orban continues to have the opportunity to strut of the big EU stage –… Read more »
Tyrker
Guest

“Border controls have been introduced between the two countries”

Border controls have been in place at the Serb-Croat border ever since the fall of Yugoslavia.
That being said, the fully fledged trade war is indeed something new and worrisome.

Guest

For those who are interested in not only black or white opinion it is worth reading this interview made by index.hu. They interviewed Mr. Chris Hahn the Director of Max Planck Institute for Social Anthropology. Sorry folks it is in Hungarian: http://index.hu/kulfold/2015/09/25/velunk_konnyit_a_lelken_a_nemet_ertelmiseg/

Guest

Here’s a scientific article (in English) by Mr. Hann on the development of the societies in former “Socialist Europe” and the discussion following it – I have to confess it’s way above my head.
Maybe someone could explain it in “layman’s terms” …
http://pendientedemigracion.ucm.es/info/antrosim/docs/Hann_et_al_Anthropology_Multiple_Temporalities_Future_Central_Eastern_Europe_A_Debate.pdf

Tyrker
Guest
Wolfi, here is another, not-so-scientific but perhaps more relevant, piece by Mr Hann, also in English: http://www.eth.mpg.de/3932117/blog_2015_09_07_01 This is the one referenced in the Index article. Even though he is no supporter of Orbán’s, he does acknowledge the following: “During my stay in Tázlár I paid attention to coverage in the principal media in both Hungary and Germany, sometimes comparing TV news reporting on the same day. There were some striking contrasts. When Hungarian state television informed its viewers that the country was taking fresh initiatives to implement the Dublin agreement, viewers of ARD or ZDF were told that Viktor Orbán was continuing his intransigent policies by refusing to allow migrants free passage westwards. When, on Monday 31st August, controls were temporarily lifted (after Angela Merkel was understood to have proclaimed that all Syrians were welcome in Germany), the authorities in Budapest were immediately pilloried by German reporters for passing the buck to their Western neighbours. At moments like this it was hard not to feel a little sympathy with the beleaguered ministers in Budapest, who were damned whatever they did. In both countries private TV channels helped to draw attention to the diversity of opinions in the respective populations.… Read more »
Guest

Seems my comment was lost so here I go again:
That article is really interesting – everybody should read it!

For me it seems obvious that Mr. Hann is a conservative Hungarian (Even if he lived in Germany for several years, it shows!) – it’s funny in a way to see what he includes as info about Hungary and what he decides to not write about.
Like the details of Orbán’s stay in England …

PS:
The expectations of those Hungarian village people re Capitalism and the EU might be compared to those of the refugees from Syria etc.

Tyrker
Guest

wolfi, you wrote: “For me it seems obvious that Mr. Hann is a conservative Hungarian”

He’s Welsh.

http://www.eth.mpg.de/hann

Guest

I stand corrected – still he is very conservative and what he writes about Hungary sounds a bit strange in my ears …

Guest
Re: ‘Socialist Europe’ article You know indeed it is in I think what they call ‘academic speak’ but nevertheless it sort of points to something I have always been interested in and that is the study of the evolution of Eastern Europe in specifically the overall ‘thought’ proceses impinging on the culture, its institutions and individuals. Social anthropology and ethnographic research appears to be the disciplines for this but yet there appears to be differences in how to approach analysis from those scholars. For me being ancestrally connected but a non- native to the country and the area it has always struck me why EE and some of its countries perhaps just might not ‘get it’ when it appears they have things in their societies that still harbor the poisons from terrible history past. Some things simply are like bad coughs that never ever go away there. It’s almost as if the problems are intractable to solve. Should EE and more to the point Hungary be where it is now in its national evolution? Is it correct to say her past orders her future? I don’t know but it would seem to be a fascinating intellectual question. That ‘heavy’ article… Read more »
Lajos Renner
Guest

@Wolfi … Are you serious? Do you expect someone to read 71 pages of monkey talk? These academics are paid by word count and they have no idea how to communicate in short form. The essence of this is that the Brits are the top of mankind (all of them believe it, even my son-in-law who is a moran) and we are doomed because we had been under communist rules for half a century, thus being prevented to evolve into humans.
For more details please read 71 pages of gibberish.

Member
The first word pops in my mind is hoax. Anyone with a little knowledge of the inner workings of the EU would know that summits are rarely called without a thorough preparation. In this case provision surely involved CFSP and JHA, in this case Interior Ministers’ Council. Preliminary proposals agreed on ministerial levels are channeled than to the European Council (EC “summit”) to discuss, modify and finally to agree on. With rare exceptions, these proposals are usually confidential until the decisions are made public. Therefore, what the great leader did is to break this unwritten confidentiality. He achieved this level of success by unduly airing proposals that in part were already on the table. (I am sure, for example, that Horse Seehofer and his party are not involved in the preparatory work of EC, thus OVi’s proposals were nothing short of interference into Germany’s and the other member states internal affairs. Three short add-ons. 1. The EU cannot decide on taking over border control of GR without preliminary consent of the given country. The EU should negotiate such a deal ahead of the Summit. Obviously, GR did not agree with such a proposal. See what would happen if someone asked… Read more »
István
Guest
The article about the perspectives of a Professor Chris Hann were well worth reading, thanks for posting the link. My thoughts about it are complex, because many of us who have direct contact with our country cousins in rural Hungary can see some truth in his argument. But how can we agree with this comment by Hann (my translation):”There has long been a negative image of Hungary, but now the German media is virtually demonizing Hungary, or at least the Hungarian government. Most German readers believes that Hungary is extremely nationalist and even racist. They believe that Orbán controls everything – Many are surprised when I say that in Hungary there is free media, in which there appears balanced news.” The mass levers of public opinion forming media in Hungary are neither free nor balanced in my opinion, particularly for country folks. We all know, well those of us who read this blog regularly know, that there are contrary opinions in Hungary from the dominate Fidesz controlled narrative about emigration which is made to look rational by the even more extreme Jobbik perspective. But those perspectives have to sought out. Even a relatively liberal paper like Népszabadság gives massive deference… Read more »
tappanch
Guest

Statistics. September 1 through September 24 (calculated from official data)

Number of “captured illegal migrants”: 95,791
Number of registered migrants (asylum applicants): 28,681

Schengen compliance ratios:

between September 1 and September 24: 29.94%
between January 1 and August 31: 93.96%
between January 1 and September 24: 69.54%

daily speed of the “captured illegal migrant” flow:

First 6 months of 2015, (6 month average): 373
July, August, (2 month average): 1,417
September, (24 day average) : 3,991

tappanch
Guest

Schengen compliance ratio on September 24: 1.91%

http://444.hu/2015/09/25/csutortokon-155-menedekkerelmet-regisztraltak/

tappanch
Guest

In the last 9 days (September 16 through September 24) 55,000 [50,000] migrants arrived in Croatia [Hungary].

So we can estimate that the Croatian authorities expedite 90% of the incoming migrants to Hungary and 10% to Slovenia.

http://index.hu/belfold/2015/09/21/ausztria_magyarorszag_szerbia_horvatorszag_menekultvalsag/majdnem_59_ezren_erkeztek_eddig_horvatorszagba/

Guest

Actually I was also a bit surprised by his view on media in Hungary. It can be true in Budapest but those who have no access to Klubradio, ATV and internet sites likes index, 444 and only tuned to the government sponsored TV and Radio and internet channels might have a totally different and distorted view of Hungary.

It is another question whether they want to see and listen sg. which is critical to the government. Many people actually would like to believe that “Magyarország jobban teljesít” . For many facing the reality is actually very disturbing, and they need a leader who is good at telling fairy tales they used to it in childhood.

Tyrker
Guest

“only tuned to the government sponsored TV and Radio and internet channels”

If you only ever watch state television and listen to public radio, then sure, you “might have a totally different and distorted view of Hungary” – but once you have Internet access nothing can prevent you from reading 444, Index and the like.

Guest

Who in his/her sane mind watches “North Korean State TV”?
Sorry, but that joke was necessary – I’ve never seen anything like MTV1 in other countries …
There are so many other channels in Hungary to watch.

PS:
Re German government TV” – there is a clear difference between conservative ZDF and “left” ARD.
Actually ZDF was created by the CDU as an alternative to the ARD, which is in itself a cooperation of the local tv channels, some are “left”, some are “right” like the Bavarian channel.
I still remember when a film was not shown in Bavarian tv – because the precursor of Mr. Seehofer ordered the transmitters to be switched of for that time. That caused quite a stink!

Lajos Renner
Guest

Or the other way … critics of the government find every reason to deny any achievement that the last 6 years been factually presented. The losers’ hate is so strong that they cannot or do not want to see the forest from the tree. No matter, sites like this are good for you to rant your frustration and have no effect on the life of the majority of Hungarians. I came here time to time to sample such frustration. If the left keeps behaving like this Orban will eventually be crowned as king of Hungary. Time to try to organize the left into some credible political alliance with the right (left) leader at the helm.

Bowen
Guest

The BBC have interviewed Szijjarto for their “Hard Talk’ Interview series.

I must say that Szijjarto seems very confident in himself (or arrogant). I wish Hungary had this calibre of interviewing.

Member

OMG It is a joke. He makes a full of himself and Hungary. They literally wiped off the floor with him. He says “I can explain what the Prime Minister meant” hahaha
and for goodness sake, can someone do something about his hair. Maybe he wants to be a rock star but he looks like a big cock sitting on a fence.

Reality Check
Guest

Look at Habony too. A lot of these Fideszniks think they are somehow hip and fashionable. They just look ridiculous.

Member

Of course I meant “fool” not full… autocorrect

Lajos Renner
Guest

Yes, his hairdresser can fix his hair. Did you view the same video as I did? I heard him saying that “I can repeat what the PM mean … ” he did not offer to explain it. The reporter asked him to explain it but he skated out of such trap. I guess you are so far left that your hearing is nor RIGHT. And I still try to see how he was wiped off the floor. He on the other hand demanded facts rather than empty rhetoric which is the favored tool of the left leaning fascist organisations. Hungary has a set of rules that is used to grant refugee status. Other countries has theirs, and some bogus international freeloaders (agencies) try to force their wish list on Hungary. Hajrá magyarok. Beat back those outsiders and use your criteria to keep unwanted trash out of the country.

Guest

Now you’re talking!
” keep unwanted trash out of the country”

What if the EU wants to keep unwanted trash like Fidesz out of the EU – or rather expel it?

Lajos Renner
Guest

@SOME 1 … My dream would come through. I am a strong believer that the EU is a modern slavery system and we are the slaves. The Greeks, The Spanish, Portuguese, Bulgarians, Romanians, we are all robbed of our industry (regardless how out of date they were) thus lost employment and got misery in exchange. And of course never ending national debt.

So you are speaking from my heart … let’s get out of the EU. Éljen a hizott libamáj!

Guest

Sure, go straight back to Kadar times …
Or even better to Horthy times when Hungary was so great!
You are a hate-filled lunatic it seems …

PS:

Industry in all Eastern Block countries was an economic and an ecological disaster – if it had gone on a few more years, the whole eastern block would have been destroyed by its toxic waste.

Lajos Renner
Guest

@Wolfi …I believe that you are out of my league. You are a name-calling despot that cannot debate intelligently and trying to insult me because we do not see eye to eye. I suggest that you ignore my comments as I will do with yours from now on. Thank you for your input anyway. LOL

Lajos Renner
Guest

Sorry I mistakenly addressed it to SOME 1, it is for @wolfi

Member

Actually Lajos, he said ” I can repeat what the Prime Minister meant..” meant is not what he said, so there you go. Meaning is explanation in fact. He did not say I can repeat what the Prime Minister said! I guess you are so wrapped up in the little world of hate that you cannot even
meant = simple past tense and past participle of mean
mean = to have in mind as one’s purpose or intention; intend
This does not equal with “repeat”. Repeat would mean “to say or utter again (something already said)”. That is only what you wanted to read into it.
You know what Fidesz and their blind followers have a problem with FACTS. That is what always gets in the way.

Lajos Renner
Guest

@SOME1 … in your original comment you wrote ““I can explain what the Prime Minister meant”,
I replied to you that you twisted his word because he said “I can repeat what the Prime Minister meant”. Now you are telling me that he did not say that he can repeat? Go back to the video at 2:03 – 2:05. And I really have trouble understanding why you are giving me an English lesson?
Anyway I believe that it is pointless to try to encourage you to gather your thoughts before pushing the keyboard.

Member
I know, I know Lajos. It iOS especially hard for you to follow me. It would take some thinking, so I do not blame you. It is just I always switch between Hungarian and English thinking when typing away. I doing some stuff away from the computer, running around, often typing away from my smartphone far away from my home base, so in fact it does become very confusing.I agree with you on that 100%, and I apologize as I certainly accommodate the impaired in my regular, professional activities. Without going back and forth with you, what I meant to say is that in my post I implied Szijjarto suggested to explain what the PM sad. You are right, I shouldn’t have used quotation mark. The quote is (just as you wrote): “I can repeat what the Prime Minister meant” I wrote Szijjarto wanted to “explain what the Prime Minister meant”. You wrote “he did not offer to explain it”. According to all dictionaries the word mean = explanation of what is in mind repeat = to say again Szijjarto did not used the word repeat. Szijjarto used the word meant. This means Lajos that you are wrong. I hope… Read more »
Lajos Renner.
Guest

SOME1 … thank you for your English lesson. I highly appreciate it. It is my weakness that I do not think in one language and translate it to the other therefore it is consequential that I lost your thoughts. I do not reach for a dictionary before using a word; I just use them as I feel they fit. Also it makes a huge difference what dictionary you get your information from, as “meant” is not equal with “explain” in the kind of English I am used to. My suggestion to you is to use the language you feel more comfortable with as everybody understands Hungarian on this site.
As far as your push for being right (although you are 100% left) please take your time and listen to the interview from 2:03 to 2:05 and do not repeat yourself again that he did not say “repeat”. The correct quote is “Once again I can repeat what the PM meant” which in street English is an expression that I will say the same thing again without offering any explanation. This means SOME1 that you are wrong. (quote from you)
English lesson finished. I trust that you learnt something.

Member
Hungary is a signatory to the Geneva convention, Hungary AGREED that they would abide by the same methods as other countries who have signed and AGREED to the convention on the granting of refugee status. No one forced anything on Hungary in this regard. What you cannot seem to understand because of your communist brainwashing is that you simply cannot pretend to agree and follow certain rules, then decide to do it your way whenever is suits you. Yes, I know that is how it was during Kadar times, you pretended to agree to communism, you pretended to honor the Soviets, pretending was a fact of life if you wanted to get along and get ahead in Hungary during those times. This is not how it is in democratic societies. We now know that all along, the Hungarian government was pretending to be a part of Europe, was pretending to care about checks and balances and pretending to hold European values, just to get the money! Now that shit has hit the fan, all you Kadar types can do is cry how everyone is just picking on Hungary, the people are then also brainwashed to believe that it is them… Read more »
Lajos Renner
Guest

@Liz … I read your comments and I came to the conclusion that I will not address them at all. There is no point because you have no idea what you are talking about. Your comments are full of misinformation and for that I blame the media that falsify the events.
I learnt a long time ago that it is impossible to win a debate against someone who has no knowledge about the subject. So just go back in front of your TV and watch Amanpour showing you what she wants you to believe.

exTor
Guest
The Hard Talk interviewer did not wipe the floor with Szijjártó, who was combative. I give him a lot of credit for taking on the interview, especially when he knew he was in for a pummeling. Lajos Renner, if you want to participate in this forum, try to be intelligent about what you say. With respect to your nonsensical “left-leaning fascist organisations”, you need to know that fascism is a rightwing phenomenon. Jobbik is a fascistic party. More and more Fidesz is moving rightward, meaning that it’s moving into fascist territory, moving beside Jobbik. Do yourself (and us) a favor and educate yourself. At the video midpoint, the BBC interviewer referred to Szijjártó as Prime Minister because the interviewer was about to ask a question about Orbán. Good point! As you noted, Szijjártó “skated out of [the] trap” by alibiing Orbán’s Christians-only racism by saying “I can repeat what the Prime Minister meant.” Your hero Orbán is a racist and you, Lajos “keep unwanted trash out” Renner, are a racist. The difference is that Viktor Orbán has some brains. He knows, unlike you, that Hungary must stay in the EU in order to survive. Too bad that you’re not smart… Read more »
Member

I agree to disagree with you. My in-laws who only follow Hungarian politics for my benefit, and because what is happening currently in Europe had the very same impression as I and many other news organizations did. Szijjarto, just like the other puppets follow some script handed down from Orban, and that was very prevalent in the interview. The only difference between Szijjarto and the Hungarian Ambassador in the USA is that Szijjarto memorized the script. He had nothing new to add and had to explain what the dear leader says.

http://hvg.hu/itthon/20150924_Szijjarto_megizzadt_a_BBC_musoraban
http://444.hu/2015/09/24/szijjarto-most-tenyleg-emberere-akadt-a-bbc-kemeny-riporterenek-probalt-magyarazkodni/

exTor
Guest

How do you disagree with me, Some1? I dont understand your point. What do your inlaws and their following of events in Europe have to do with anything? As far as I can tell, I and you speak the same truth.

Thanx for the linx. I’ll give them a read.

Péter Szijjártó is not a puppet, he is part of the Fidesz machine. He has not been scripted, he has not been told what to say. He’s intelligent enough to know what his boss Viktor Orbán has said.

The problem that Péter Szijjártó encountered in the Hard Talk interview is that he had to deal with a representative of the western media, one who particularly would not countenance the racism of Viktor Orbán.

Szijjártó tried to dance around the interviewer’s line of questioning, however it was clear to all that he stumbled. Szijjártó was in a no-win situation. His boss is a racist. Hungary engaged in racist actions. The whole world knows it. What can he say? Szijjártó’s lies were obvious.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Member

I mean I think he in fact “wiped the floor” with him. My in-laws were laughing after watching the interview, and were saying what a sorry political he is. I know we agree on this issue. I simply thought he was clearly defeated. I appreciate your humanitarian stance !

Lajos Renner.
Guest

@exTor .. first and foremost it is obvious that you do not understand SOME1’s point. He doesn’t have one.
Second if you say that Orban is racist I trust your judgement. He is – according to the blinded left-lib critics who will wake up several years down the road just to find themselves in situations as the Jews in Nazi Germany. They fell victims of inactions against the rise of Hitler. Today’s Europe will fall victim of the inaction against this massive Muslim inflow. What Orban’s critics do not understand that Islam is a political religion that has one common goal for all of its followers: convert or kill all “infidels” . No democratic debating, no peaceful coexistence, no religious freedom. Wake up and pull your head out of the sand while you have a head as they prefer their foes be without one.
Btw, I did forgive you and willing to exchange ideas because I still think you are intelligent but mislead.

Guest

Lajos, you really are an lunatic creature!
Just tell me one thing:
What are you more afraid of?
LGBT people (I won’t repeat your description of them …) or Muslims?
Do you sleep well?

Lajos Renner
Guest

SOME1 …. simply put of idiots like you, who hides behind animosity while creating hostility.

exTor
Guest

Let me clarify, Some1. For sure Szijjártó came out of that BBC interview looking bad. He lost. He had no chance, because he had to defend Orbán, who is undefendable, especially with respect to his bigoted Christians-only-in-Hungary position.

Though Szijjártó clearly knew that he was loozing, he took the ‘fight’ to the interviewer. Szijjártó was combative in a loozing cause. That’s why I say the interviewer did NOT wipe the floor with Szijjártó.

I am reminded (by Szijjártó’s combativeness in a loozing effort) of Saddam Hussein as he was led to the gallows for his execution. He was feisty. He knew what was coming. Saddam took it as he should have: bravely.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Webber
Guest

Szijjartó doesn’t come up to Saddam’s knees (and I am not saying anything nice about Saddam). If Szijjártó were in Saddam’s position at the gibbet, he would… well, what he would do is very human, if a little humiliating, and I’d probably do it too.

Lajos Renner
Guest

@Extor .. Yes I am racists in time, you all will be racist when it will be too late. Orban is racist is a sense that he does not want his daughters raped because Allah likes it. You and your label throwing comrades are blindfolded and by the time the niqabs fall of your eyes you will see Europe turned into religious civil war that could have been prevented if Orban was given a little more credit.
I intended to give you some explanation of terminology I intentionally used (“left-leaning fascist organisations”,) before reading your insults, but I decided to leave you in your comfort zone. Enjoy.

exTor
Guest
The Hard Talk interviewer did not wipe the floor with Szijjártó, who was combative. I give him a lot of credit for taking on the interview, especially when he knew he was in for a pummeling. Lajos Renner, if you want to participate in this forum, try to be intelligent about what you say. With respect to your nonsensical “left-leaning fascist organisations”, you need to know that fascism is a rightwing phenomenon. Jobbik is a fascistic party. More and more Fidesz is moving rightward, meaning that it’s moving into fascist territory, moving beside Jobbik. Do yourself (and us) a favor and educate yourself. At the video midpoint, the BBC interview referred to Szijjártó as Prime Minister because the interviewer was about to ask a question about Orbán. Good point! As you noted, Szijjártó “skated out of [the] trap” by alibiing Orbán’s Christians-only racism by saying “I can repeat what the Prime Minister meant.” Your hero Orbán is a racist and you, Lajos “keep unwanted trash out” Renner, are a racist. The difference is that Viktor Orbán has some brains. He knows, unlike you, that Hungary must stay in the EU in order to survive. Too bad that you’re not smart… Read more »
antipuppet
Guest

good puppet!

Guest

Re: Szijjarto on Hard Talk

I like that program. Nice to get decision-makers in the ‘hot seat’ to fry’em a bit, eh? They’re getting paid for it. Why not see them earn their money?

I think he’s a fan of Mr. Szilagyi , that countryman of his who attacks like the ‘Flash’ in those fencing matches of his. Quick as a macska! Blink and your gone.

Media scouting report for Mr. Szijjarto: be very ‘avare” of parry and riposte! parry and riposte! Really the new tool in 21st century Magyar diplomacy my correspondents…;-)…

Member

Orban’s Hungary (wit the exception of environmental issues, I must add)comment image

Member

This is funny, I was in fact reading a comment from somebody this morning on another site that was litterally accusing the pope of wanting to merge Islam and Christianity together. I nearly died of laughter.

Tyrker
Guest

Interestingly, whilst Faymann’s meeting with Orbán is headline news in both the Austrian and the Hungarian online media, the depth of coverage is strikingly different. Even if you don’t speak either German or Hungarian, you can see this from the sheer length of the respective Index and Die Presse reports:

http://index.hu/belfold/2015/09/25/ausztria_orban_viktor_menekultek_menekultvalsag_kerites_horvatorszag_becs_werner_faymann_fpo/ – 1005 words, excluding the title

http://diepresse.com/home/politik/innenpolitik/4829074/Orban-wirft-Osterreich-glatte-Lugen-vor – 598 words, excluding the title

And if you can read both pieces, you will see that Hungarian readers are much better informed about both politicians’ positions. Reporting by Die Presse seems downright sloppy when compared to Index. Very interesting.

Member

Would it be because Hungary is not the centre of the universe after all, and beside dealing with Hungary other countries have other important things to do? Of course in Hungary Orban and his spinners are very crafty to use this crises to cover up many other things that they seem not to want to bring into daylight.
Did yo hear about the tobacco issue? How about Matolcsy’s shopping spree from taxpayers money? Did you read about the money contributed to the soccer in Felcsut versus hospitals? I can just go on.

Guest

Der Standard has found more words – but they won’t please Fidesz …
http://derstandard.at/2000022784179/Orban-besucht-Faymann-und-Mitterlehner
Austria’s prime minister btw is a member of the Social Democrats – and he said:
” Nach dem laut Faymann eineinviertelstündigen Gespräch der beiden wurde “keine konkrete Annäherung” festgestellt.”
That is really bad – we have different opinions and there is no common ground …

tappanch
Guest

UN: “A daily flow of about 8,000 Syrian and Iraqi refugees to Europe is likely to continue”

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34356758

This is 3 million people a year !

cardamon
Guest

tappanch:

Try not to extrapolate from daily numbers. We simply don’t know the future.

For example look only at the global GDP growth estimates, say, in 2007-2010, the lack of ability to predict by experienced Phds at World Bank, IMF, MS, Goldman, ECB, Commission etc. is staggering.

I can’t get good links to this problem, but here are some missed developments.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/investor/2015/01/20/how-wrong-could-gdp-forecasts-be/

tappanch
Guest

This is not my extrapolation, but that of Mr Amin Awad, regional refugee coordinator for the U.N. refugee agency UNHCR.

8000 daily is the tip of the iceberg.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/25/us-europe-migrants-idUSKCN0RP19S20150925

tappanch
Guest

“The German interior ministry said around a third of asylum seekers arriving in Germany who claim to be from Syria were probably not actually from that country, though spokesman Tobias Plate added that there were no precise statistics.”

“Not all refugees enter via eastern Europe and the Mediterranean. In recent days, about 500 refugees per day have crossed the Finnish land border in Tornio, near the Arctic Circle, after a long journey through central Europe and Sweden.”

Member

“The Soviet repression of the Hungarian uprising in 1956 caused an exodus of 200,000 refugees.” So you are saying that based on the data 12,000,000 people left Hungary since 1956?

tappanch
Guest

Well, comrade Kadar closed the exit door after 3 months.

Will comrade Merkel shut the entrance after 3 months?
Let us ask her. 🙂

Member

With the same train of thought it should be someone from Syria to close the gate. It was not the receiving countries that stopped the influx of refugees.

tappanch
Guest

Syria:

A. Assad (+11 armed militias) and its foreign supporters Iran & Russia
B. Opposition (7 armed factions)
C. Al Qaida affiliates (4 armed factions)
D. Da’esh
E. Kurds and allies (6 armed factions)

Which one will shut the door? Who will win? If Assad regains total control over Syria with foreign support, he will make sure to oust as many millions of Sunni Muslims as possible.

In Iraq, the situation is similar. If the government recaptures Mosul and NW Iraq with US and Iranian support, millions of Sunnis will flee to Turkey and Europe. If Da’esh stays in power, lots of people will flee their terrible rule.

rob
Guest

I agree that we shouldn’t extrapolate daily numbers to guess at the numbers for coming years. After all first few months of THIS year there were only about 3-500 people coming per day.

Now it is 5-10 000 coming per day. The numbers are rapidly increasing, soon 20 and 30 thousand will come every day. The numbers will keep increasing unless something is done.

But all I see is newer and newer invitations being sent out. So why would less people come? Only more and more.

tappanch
Guest

Teachers protest the imposition of government control over their private life and way of teaching, the so-called “Ethical Codex” for teachers.

high school teachers:
http://hivatlanul.com/budaorsi-illyes-gyula-gimnazium-tanarainak-nyilatkozata/

kindergarten teachers:
http://hivatlanul.com/ovodapedagogusok-tiltakozasa/

tappanch
Guest

It seems that minister Z Balog really lied about taking in 1000 Coptic and Iraqi Christian families in 2013 and 2014.

http://444.hu/2015/09/25/hiaba-mondta-azt-balog-zoltan-nem-kapott-ezer-egyiptomi-es-iraki-kereszteny-csalad-magyar-allampolgarsagot/

Lajos Renner
Guest
Dear Eva, Anybody may love or hate Victor Orban. That is personal and individual. One reading your site may have no difficulties figuring out where you stand. And that is OK. However objective analysis of the current situation would be more helpful to fix this tremendous problem. Orban is the Prime Minister of Hungary. His duty bound obligation to defend this country first and be a nice EU man second. His cries to prevent a foreseeable disaster for Europe has fallen on deaf ears, his request for participation met inactions while Hungary became the stamping ground of invading hordes. I know that the politically correct attitude is to see these migrants as people, but it is what it is. They are religious occupiers and culturally so different that there is no chance that they will ever assimilate to the European norms. Not to mention the embedded trained terrorist that are inflowing to Europe with the help of the bleeding heart brainwashed locals. So if Orban created a problem between Serbia and Croatia with building the fence on Hungarian soil that problem was created in Brussels …. I wish he brought home the solders from the Middle East and stationed them… Read more »
gardonista
Guest

I strongly object to the characterization that Orban is defending his country. I am Hungarian, and he is not defending me or my family.

I wish he would defend his country, and not his political party. I wish he would defend his country.

This blog is not about Saudi Arabia. It’s not to discuss the politics of the Gulf states. This blog is for people who care for Hungary and are passionate about making it better. We are doing our best to fix our own problems.

Lajos Renner
Guest

@gardonista So you are saying that by accepting unlimited number of migrants your family will have a better and safer life and that makes no difference whether the Gulf countries take the pressure off Europe? For your family sake I hope you have boys only as the girls will have to wear niqabs soon. And you are right, Orban does not defend you and your family but he does defend the country called Hungary. That is the reason he is attacked as a nationalist by the left lib Brussels. So if you feel he does not defend your country than you must have another country you call Hazám!

Gardonista
Guest

Thanks you, @Lajos Renner. You did a great job of proving my point. You show a quick willingness to attack my Hungarianness and my family for a quick political point.

Lajos Renner
Guest

@Gardonista you just did what all of you are doing on this site, namely twisted my words to prove that you are right I have never questioned who you are and for sure I have never attacked you or your family. I just pointed out that if you do not feel that Mr. Orban defends your country while he is trying to keep the never ending occupying horde out of Hungary than there must be another country that you call Hazam. If you have difficulties understanding English I can repeat it in Hungarian for you.

spectator
Guest

Unfortunately it all goes on a wrong way: Orbán started to defend Hungary (well, “his country” is a bit strong to my taste..) without anybody ever tried to “attacking” it!

Otherwise it seem to me that right in the middle of his “great success” he start to go around to negotiate and trying to smoothen things.

Any civilised person – let alone a statesman – with the common interest as goal would have started the process of negotiations as the first step, not like damage control!

If it was his best interest, of course.

But hey, then we could have missed all that idiotic and pathetic bullshit what went down in the last couple of months, and several thousands of people wouldn’t experience their short, but memorable Hungarian visit as of the most inhuman place exist west from the Gulag…

tappanch
Guest

A.
” I saw what these people did to our pride, the Keleti aluljáró, Jászai Mari tér, Nyugati aluljáró”

I saw what the Orban government did to our “pride” with my own eyes before September 15.

His government let in thousands of people, many of them families with children, then prevented them from leaving, while did not give them food or help.

The behavior of this government shames the Hungarian name.

B.
Could you remind me – what did Orban actually do between February and July 2015, apart from initiating an anti-migrant billboard campaign inside Hungary, in Hungarian?

C.
I do not contradict myself – I think this uncontrolled mass migration to Europe should be stopped.

Lajos Renner
Guest

@tappanch I love you. His government did not let any single one in. They INVADED our borders and he did not order the security people to defend the boarder by fire. So they were let in just like a burglar would be let into your home when you do nothing to kill him.
If you call putting the invaders into fenced camps with open doors until they were registered than you are right, he tried to keep them until the EU protocol could be completed. They simply refused registration and took off by any means they could.
I saw how the police tried to provide food and water to them but they refused it (in front of the camera, later accepted and gabled up). This whole migration is a modern age cleaver terrorism, whereby the so called refugees dictate to the host what to do and how to do it to suit their expectation.

Webber
Guest
Lajos Renner I am an eye witness – tens of thousands of Hungarians are eye witnesses – of the fact that until the hysteria at Keleti, the Orban government was letting masses of refugees (or migrants, if you prefer) pass straight through Hungary without trying to stop them or register them at all. I saw people on trains going west, for months and months. Friends who travel regularly to and from Serbia saw masses of people crossing. Index and Origo regularly had reports about people camping out in Serbian villages and woods next to the Hungarian border waiting for an opportune moment to cross into Hungary and go on to Austria and Germany – those reports included photos of the people getting ready to cross. During those months another friend translated for police who advised a refugee who WANTED to register in Hungary that instead of stopping, he would do well to get on a train going to Austria. They told him when such trains were departing. Data on numbers of refugees who were caught entering Hungary every month from May to August could be asked for – and I hope an opposition MP will ask for them. I am… Read more »
Guest

@Webber:
It’s no use trying to reason with that hateful creature – a xenophobe, a homophobe and generally filled with extreme hate and stupid lies …

Webber
Guest

Wolfi – even if someone obviously simply wishes to sow confusion, or if you know that that person will not be convinced no matter how logical one is, it can still be useful to answer that person. His/her arguments should, in my view, be picked apart, and publicly exposed as lies and/or illogic.
This Hungarian government thrives when its lies are not exposed. (the same goes for other govts – always challenge power is my motto)

Lajos Renner
Guest

@Wolfi … because the truth exclusively lays within the left-lib ideology.

Guest

Are you the same person who commented here two weeks ago?
“Lajos Renner
September 7, 2015 at 11:58 pm

Simple… when you have the guts to unearth your munkásör submachine guns, gather enough towarishes to get the needed number to wage a coup d’état. Until that the only way is the ballot which in the last two elections went his way. Sorry Elvtársak either blood or ballot.

Lajos renner
Guest

@wolfi … Yes, I am the same person. I trust that you like my comments. Refreshing to read something other than Orban bashing on this site, isn’t it?

Guest

You’re a very good example of a person filled with hate, that’s true!
You remind me of the psychopath on politics.hu that goes by the name of “leto”, look up the creature there.
I’m sure that nobody here takes you for real – when you used the b* word you showed “Wes Geistes Kind” you are …

Lajos Renner
Guest

@Wolfi Hey Body, it takes one to recognize one. So you looked into the mirror and wrote your traits addressed to me. Smart man. Lol

Member
So you feel you are being “defended” when a total confrontation was basically orchestrated and staged right in the middle of Budapest by deliberately funneling the refugees through the city providing no sanitation services or sleeping arrangements, deliberately to make them look like pigs? If that is the case you must really feal defended when he basically stole 64 million to fill a friend of Fidesz’ pockets on building a fence using tax payer funded public workers, public payed for soldiers and public cared for prisoners to build this fence. Sure must of felt defended when he starts a confrontation with Serbia, Croatia and Romania with this whole fence idea. The biggest defense of all must have been felt when recently Orban stated that “Hungarian sovereignty was dependent on receiving EU funds. So now with hearing that statement from him, how can you believe the years of hearing how Hungary is doing so much better that in fact they can “stand on their own two feet”, that Hungary is just a misunderstood country, because of the language differences. Sending the IMF packing with such cockiness all while claiming that Hungary doesn’t need money from others to take care of the… Read more »
Alma
Guest

The media backlash underwritten by Orban is getting more and more successful.

‘Lajos Renner’ is just one these people who are working for Orban, others are spreading the news in Heti Valasz that Petra Laszlo’s tripping was a “hoax” perpetrated by “liberals”.

But go to youtube and there are several videos which are shown if you check the site from Hungary as trending and which youtube recommends. They have anywhere from 350,000 to 1,500,000 views and are all viciously anti-refugee.

Democrats underestimate the sophistication and effectiveness of a combined, segmented media campaign – carried out on Maninder to 888.hu and kurucinfo to youtube videos shared on facebook – that is being orchestrated by Orban at their peril.

These media/disinformation operations worked well in Russia and they will work in Hungary too.

Meanwhile people don’t care about the corruption (Rogan is one of the most corrupt people in Hungary and now he becomes a minister?), Questor, the degradation of health care, education and public services, that people are leaving in droves and so on.

Lajos Renner
Guest

@Alma … you are wrong. I am not working. period. Not for Orban, not for Gyurcsany, not for Putin, etc., But I have my own opinion about the subjects that I comment on. Sorry but I am not a party loyalist that repeats what the media or other manipulator suggest. I just express my views and sometimes (I can assure you not too many times) they agree with Orban’s. I am a devoted democrat (but not a leftist extremist) and my religion is FREEDOM. In the light of the foregoing you might adjust your expectation when reading my comments. and your apology is accepted … lol

Webber
Guest

Lajos Renner, you wrote
-“my religion is FREEDOM.”
Well, you’ve given no evidence of that here. All you’ve done is “bravely” defended those in power, and repeated some of their lies (they are quite familiar to anyone who watches Hun. govt. t.v.).
Based on what you’ve argued above, you can’t blame people for doubting you.
Let’s have your arguments for “FREEDOM,” for a change. It would be refreshing.
It would also be nice to see you actually say something critical of this government with whom (you claim) you don’t always agree.
Give us proof, please.

Lajos Renner
Guest
@Webber … I found your comments very interesting. Especially your expertise on sexually unsecure men’s behaviour. Freedom is a subject that I doubt could be fully explored here. However it is not limited to a single person rather it should apply to groups and nations as well. When this invasion started, nobody asked me, my neighbors, people in our area, or the citizens of Hungary whether we want these people to come to Hungary. Refugees are processed by international rules (s.a. Hungarians were in Vienna 1956 e.g) before entering the country that welcomes them. When thousands of people cross into a country illegally they infringe on the freedom of choice of that country. These people are not refugees, they were when they entered Turkey, rather they are migrants. I expect and demand the Prime Minister of my country to protect my freedom by not allowing such horde into my country. I know I am labeled all kind of phobic already here, but my conviction is that these people will change Europe irreversibly. And that is clearly not my choice. ps. I feel that you are one of the most intelligent commenters on this site. Try to see the immigration problem… Read more »
exTor
Guest

Well Webber, some people have all the luck. How is it that Lajos Renner compliments you [“I feel that you are one of the most intelligent commenters on this site.”] and not me?

And what’s this about “sexually unsecure [sic] men’s behavior”? I couldn’t find anything.

Lajos Renner will surely compliment me when he reads my major opus at the bottom of this scroll.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Webber
Guest

exTor – if you really are curious, in his comment about sexuality LR was responding to my note to Wolfi dated
September 26, 2015 at 4:11 am.

Member

I know, right? exTor it that is any consolation, I do like your posts, and I think you are very smart. LOL

exTor
Guest

Köszi for the good words.
This is all I need, Some1.

MAGYARKOZÓ

exTor
Guest

Finally found it, Webber. Good thing you gave me the time info. Had to use my browser’s search function to find you.

While it may be considered conventional wisdom that homophobes are insecure in their own skin re their sexuality, which may be true to some extent (elsewhere), I think a lot of homophobia here in Hungary is cultural.

In many ways Hungary lags the West [Western Europe, North America] by many years, maybe even decades, in its social attitudes. Pride was just getting off the ground in the early 1980s in Toronto, so (with respect to gay rights) it may not be a stretch to say that Budapest may be three decades behind Toronto, which is supposed to have the third-largest (behind New York and San Francisco) gay population in North America.

In Hungary, the natural concomitant to homophobia is antiRoma racism, which is not only pervasive, but open. I’m no longer shocked by antiRoma comments that are made nonchalantly and dropped into conversations out of nowhere, as if they belonged.

I’ve shut down conversations a few times due to inappropriate remarks.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Lajos Renner
Guest

extort … you are also a future teller. In deed I complimented you just read my comment on your list of my traits. Btw is there any chance that you use your real name as I do? Just for showing who is honest and who is a mishmash hiding in the bush commenter?

tappanch
Guest

“If the hill will not come to Mahomet, Mahomet will go to the hill.”

Francis Bacon, 1625
http://www.literaturepage.com/read/francis-bacon-essays-24.html

Since Europe [and US] did not go to Syria, so Syria goes to Europe.

gdfxx
Guest

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/25/eu-refugee-crisis-tip-of-iceberg-unhcr

“The UN’s refugee agency has warned that the number of refugees and migrants entering Europe, which currently stands at 8,000 a day, will be “the tip of the iceberg” unless there is an end to the civil war in Syria.”

Asked if Europe should prepare for millions more migrants, he said: “If it happens that in a few months you have a over half a million, it could certainly happen.” “

D7 Democrat (@D7Democrat)
Guest

“But go to youtube and there are several videos which are shown if you check the site from Hungary as trending and which youtube recommends. They have anywhere from 350,000 to 1,500,000 views and are all viciously anti-refugee”

No doubt. If youtube had existed in the 1930s then anti-semitic hashtags would have been in the top 10 for most of the decade.

Doesn’t make it right and civilised Europe now has a mssion to take on the scum, be it Fidesz/Jobbik in Hungary or their neo-nazi fellow travellers throughout the continent.
O

petofi
Guest

“Viktor Orbán seems to be endangering the stability of the region and sowing discord among the member states of the European Union for one reason only:…”

Not quite one reason alone.
Surreptitiously, Victor is doing the bidding of Papa Putin.

exTor
Guest
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/26/world/europe/nationalists-in-finland-hurl-rocks-at-iraqis-seeking-asylum.html Linking to the New York Times article shows a conehead (à la KKK) demonstrating against asylum-seeking Iraqis. The Finnish conehead is the ideological brother of his fellow hater, that Magyar conehead symp. I must admit that you nailed Lajos Renner with his inconsistencies, Éva. For him, truth is fluid; it is what he says, regardless of veracity. In any case, there is no value in engaging with him further. Facts are bendable for racists like Lajos Renner (and for all Orbánistas), which is why he had no problem with the awkward dancing of Péter Szijjártó trying to negotiate the tune of the BBC Hard Talk interviewer. http://hungarianspectrum.org/2015/09/24/viktor-orban-in-brussels-success-or-failure/#comment-103194 Lajos Renner comment, 2015 September 25, 2:10 PM The above-link comment shows Lajos Renner to be a picture of sweet reasonableness. He says that he has no problems with anybody disagreeing with Viktor Orbán. Lajos Renner protrays V Orbán as following the dictates of his conscience, flowing a difficult course that must necessarily navigate the exigencies of the current refugee crisis. Lajos Renner concludes by stating that rich Arab countries should help by absorbing some of the refugee flow. He says that the refugee problem can only be dealt wih insitu, in… Read more »
Lajos Renner
Guest

extort … I must upgrade your status, you are not only an intelligent person, you are a genius. Painting a picture about me like the comment you wrote to Eva, (September 27, 2015 at 7:13 am) can come from nobody but a political genius. I solute you. And when you wake up from your nightmare you may also send me your apology which will be accepted. You and your label throwing comrades are so quick using the “politically correct” view and measure everybody with such that I have real difficulty to catch my breath. Ever crossed your mind that just maybe you are not 100% right (I know you are 100% left)? Ever had any doubt that problems can be different in reality that from your view point? No I guess not.

exTor
Guest

A genius ??? Beside you that aint no biggie !!!

MAGYARKOZÓ

Lajos Renner
Guest

@exTor Let me be the judge of it. I guess you are a genius in disguise. You write stupid things so the average people cannot see the magnificent mind behind the idiocy. Great chameleon.

exTor
Guest
Let me give you some fashion advice, Lajos Renner. Stupidity is a lousy fashion accessory. Stop wearing it on your sleeve. I’m tired of talking to you. Éva caught you out in a lie. If she’s smart, she will cease dealing with you. You dont got the smarts to figure things out. Which may make this rather ironic. Others would say that I’m wasting my time and brainpower talking to you, which is probably correct. That NWS, I’m going to say this because something might get through to you. You’re a racist, Lajos Renner. I will forgo labeling you a ‘scumbag’, as I’ve done before. As a hater, you want to believe the worst in people who dont quite look like you. Maybe they’re somewhat darker. And they believe in a god differently than most in Europe, which is reason enough (in your sick mind) to hate someone. In your view, the predominantly Muslim refugees will swamp Europe, bring disease and crime and destabilization with them. European culture will be undone because of Muslim religious aggressiveness. I am sorry to have to report that you are breathtakingly stupid, Lajos Renner. The European Union alone has more than 500-million people. If… Read more »
Lajos Renner
Guest
extort … thank you for your fashion tips. I will copy you 🙂 If you ever wanted to learn the truth (which is not on you agenda) you would know that Eva instead of having “caught me on a lie” got herself into one. I am waiting for her apology in the subject. But like a good fan you are cheering for her without knowing that she scored or not. The rest of your comment comes from the heart … your heart. I never used terms that you have saturated your comment clearly showing you demagogue attitude. Nevertheless you can keep slurring, it just exposes your unintelligent being. Good for you. And just one though for food (although I doubt that your mind is capable of consuming such) extrapolate your mathematical equation with the 8.3 birth in Muslim families to the 1.7 in EU average and you might see the light at the end of the birth canal. They will hang you (and whole Europe) by their umbilical cords. But I know that this is too much for you to understand, so I exempt you from it. Your intelligence is still at the “breathtakingly stupid” level.
Lajos Renner
Guest
extort … Yes Teacher …. “Refugees are not bad people.” I agree 1000 times. Ich war ein Flüchtling im Schweiz. But I did not want to change their language (although I spoke not a word on arrival) rather I learnt it. I did not resist registration and to stay in their lager; although I hated it, rather I waited out the time needed to obtain my “asylum”. I did not want to change their legal system, rather I submitted myself to it. I did not want to change their religion, rather I practiced mine (remember FREDOM is my religion). Now to get down to your level here is my first (and perhaps last) time when I stick a label to anyone: Idiot like you are the source of the problem. You with your demagogue repetition of the same acquisition cannot hear the voice of the others. Or you do not want to. I expressed several times that my objection is not against their color, nationality or not even their religion, rather their obligation to change the World wherever they put their feet in. I do not expect from you to know what Muslims around the World are demanding from the… Read more »
Lajos Renner
Guest

You have a blog? Gimmi the address and let’s get at each other …. We have so much in common … hahahaha.
Oh no… I guess I would not lost too long under your “shot down” policy.

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