Viktor Orbán’s “national security experts” on terrorism

A change of pace. It’s time to have a little fun with those “national security experts” who diligently support the Orbán government’s propaganda campaign, which portrays asylum seekers as current or future terrorists who will be the scourge of Europe within a decade or two.

Here I will concentrate on three of these so-called experts: György Nógrádi, László Földes, and, the latest addition to this illustrious crowd, George Spöttle. It seems that the Hungarian media simply cannot get enough of these guys.

Let’s start with Nógrádi, who is the smartest and best educated of the bunch, though he has a checkered past. In 2009 researchers of the 1956 Institute identified him as one of a large group who were supposed to spread government propaganda at the time of the reburial of Imre Nagy and his fellow martyrs. The historians also discovered that in 1981 Nógrádi joined the internal security establishment. He received a cover name and was assigned an officer to whom he had to report. He denied the allegation, but his cover name, “Raguzza,” gave him away. He was known to be a lover of the former Yugoslavia, and Raguzza is the Italian name for Dubrovnik. In any case, the 1956 Institute didn’t remove his name from their list. Until recently he taught at Corvinus University, but last year he was invited to teach at the new National Civil Service University. It looks as if his past sins have been forgiven by Fidesz.

György Nógrádi

György Nógrádi

The past of László Földi is not exactly pristine either. Born in 1956, he was a devoted member of the Communist Youth Organization (KISZ) all through high school and later at the Ho Chi Minh Teacher’s College in Eger. Földi never spent any time teaching. After graduation he joined the Hungarian intelligence service (III/I), where he became the party secretary. After the regime change Földi’s career didn’t suffer until the fall of 1996, when the socialist minister in charge of the intelligence service removed him from his position. I can’t go into the very complicated story that became known as the Birch-tree Affair, but it seems that Földi wasn’t only investigating criminal activities in the Hungarian-Romanian-Ukrainian border area but also socialist politicians, and that he may have passed this information on to Fidesz. At this point Földi became a businessman. Later, during the first Orbán administration, he received a lot of government orders and became quite rich. Ever since his retirement from the intelligence service he has been one of the experts on national security matters.

László Földi

László Földi

We know only as much about the life of our third expert, Georg Spöttle, as he decided to share with us. He had to have been born around 1960, and his father was “a Hungarian from Marosvásárhely (Târgu-Mureș)” who didn’t figure in his life but as far as he knows was a diplomat. His mother, whose maiden name was Spöttle, was a German who during the war ended up in Hungary. Since his father didn’t care about him, he decided to take his mother’s name. In 2002 he claimed that he had spent about half his life in Germany, where he was drafted into the German army. Because he speaks four languages, the German military intelligence approached him with a job, which he gladly accepted. He claims that in that capacity he spent a great deal of time in Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan, and Syria. Oh, yes, before I forget, Spöttle was once abducted by UFO’s, as the blogger of orulunkvincent.blog.hu discovered.

George Spöttle

Georg Spöttle

All three of these experts are forewarning the Hungarian public of the immense dangers that await Europeans. Let’s start with Nógrádi, who predicts that in twenty years Europe will be in the midst of civil war, ethnic tensions, and total chaos.  He was one of the first “experts” who suggested building a barbed wire fence. The reason for keeping these people out is Nógrádi’s conviction that Middle Eastern immigrants cannot be integrated into European society. How to keep the new immigrants out? Simple, sink the boats that bring them to Europe’s shores. “They say that this is inhumane. My answer: they should have been sunk a long time ago.”

Földi’s favorite theme is that Europe is at war. A war that was started by the United States and her allies and that by now has reached Europe in the form of the influx of migrants. They are foot soldiers sent by ISIS to destroy Europe. He is convinced that there is a whole intelligence network behind the refugees whose members organize the movement of the people. “This is a consciously planned, built-up system in which everybody to the last man is channeled in.” All of them receive instructions from the organizers. Földi believes that the intelligence agencies of European countries are fully aware of all this and that, if the fence is not enough, “if necessary even weapons must be used.”

Földi is busy. Every three or four days he comes up with a newly-discovered horror story. A couple of days ago he told the public that Hungary by now is absolutely full of spies, just like Vienna used to be during the Kádár period. Hungary is both politically and economically a stable country and therefore it has become a favorite place of foreign secret services. Földi claims that there are many night clubs in Budapest where groups of foreign intelligence officers can be seen because “they want to demonstrate their presence.”

And then there is Georg Spöttle. He is also convinced that the refugees are not escaping from ISIS but on the contrary are being sent by the Muslim extremists. In his opinion, the European intelligence agencies have known since spring that ISIS is planning another 9/11 in Europe, adding that 85% of the migrants are young men of military age. “Once these muscled young men grab guns, God save Europe!”

On state television Spöttle and Földi were asked to comment on certain files found on an abandoned cell phone that the “experts” of TEK had already identified as proof of the owner’s terrorist affiliation. The program dealing with these files was about ten minutes long. Besides Spöttle and Földi, another former secret service official, József Horváth from the Kádár era, was also interviewed. Horváth’s name should be familiar to those who followed the case of UD Zrt, for whom Horváth worked after he was sacked by the secret service in the socialist period. UD Zrt spied on the government on behalf of Fidesz. All three people took it for granted that an especially gruesome picture found on the phone was proof that the phone belonged to a terrorist.

Enter János Széky, a columnist for Élet és Irodalom, who charges that either the so-called experts are total dolts who know nothing about the subject they keep talking about or that MTV, with their help, is knowingly falsifying the facts. The title of Széky’s article, which appeared in parameter.sk, is “They found Ivan in Röszke,” a cryptic one. All of you who can read Hungarian should read the original, which I’ll summarize here for those who cannot.

There is one picture that the great experts found indicative of the mentality of these terrorist soldiers who are already in Europe. According to Spöttle, who helped the audience interpret the picture, on the photo there is “a dead infant with a weapon in one hand and a dagger in the other; around the child there are empty liquor bottles.” People who carry such pictures on their phones are pseudo-refugees. M1’s Híradó (News) blurred out the picture of the child.

Széky became curious and, with the help of Google Image Search, in no time found the original of the picture. On the original the child is not dead but is a well-fed baby. So, the staff of M1’s news lied; after all, they were the ones who blurred out the child’s picture. But it is just as bad if not worse that the picture has absolutely nothing to do with the Middle East. It is an old baby picture of Ivan Guzmán, the oldest child of Joquin “El Chapo” Guzmán, the hunted drug lord of Mexico. In addition to this picture, Híradó also showed Arab-language videos which, according to Spöttle, were produced by ISIS for recruiting purposes. Széky found these videos on YouTube and with the help of an Arabic-speaking friend found out that, in fact, these videos condemn ISIS and claim that the group’s extremism has nothing to do with Islam. So much for the “experts” whose opinions are so useful to the Orbán government’s anti-refugee propaganda campaign.

And finally, just a brief return to László Földi, whose latest salvo is that Angela Merkel should resign because she is “entirely incapable of leading the continent.” Europe is engaged in a war and “since when did a woman win a war?” asked the former history major. Several papers pointed out that Földi should have learned in elementary school about Elizabeth I, Catherine the Great, Indira Gandhi, Golda Meir, and Margaret Thatcher, all of whom managed quite well in times of war.

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Member

To this merry bunch add Minister of Justice László Trócsányi, who seems to have mentioned, in his recent speech in Brussels, the danger that poor and marginalized Gypsies might get radicalized and join the Jihadists ( http://444.hu/2015/10/19/a-magyar-igazsagugy-miniszter-szerint-valos-veszelye-van-annak-hogy-ciganyok-csatlakozzanak-a-dzsihadistakhoz-sziriaban ).
It’s not just the external “security experts”, Orbán’s cabinet is just as hilarious.

exTor
Guest

Oklahoma City, USA, 1995 April 19
Oslo, Utøya, Norway, 2011 July 22
Paris, France, 2015 January 7
Homegrown Terrorism

It had occurred to me more than once that something linkable to a particular Roma individual or group is not beyond the realm of the possible in Hungary. Societal disaffection can manifest in many ways.

The Oklahoma and Norwegian acts of terror were done by individuals not viewed as ‘outsiders’ by the mainstream population, whereas the Paris shootings are linked to the Paris-born offspring of Algerians.

It had not occurred to me, however, that certain disaffected Roma could be induced to connect with jihadists in the Levant. That too is possible.

What underlies the comment by László Trócsányi is the reality that the Roma get the shit end of the stick in Hungary (and elsewhere in Central Europe). Trócsányi knows that full well.

MAGYARKOZÓ

exTor
Guest

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/07/23/norway-terrorist-attack-christian-perpetrator-defied-stereotypes.html

Petofi prime amongst them, there are HS-community elements who are antiIslam. Such people project an unreasoned fear/dislike of those who either believe in Islam or are seen as believing in Islam.

Petofi discounts the perspective that his antiIslam mindset is unthinking, yet (his selfassessment notwithstanding) unthinking is exactly what he is.

Atrocities have been committed in the name of Islam. Anders Breivik (a fair-haired blue-eyed Christian-God-fearing Norwegian) murdered 77.

Petofi and his ilk would undoubtedly logically be antiChristian as a result of atrocities committed in the name of Jesus.

Petofi is a Jew. He no doubt would express umbrage at anyone who is as antiJewish as he is antiIslam. Being a Jew, however, is no guarantee that that person is not a racist and not a fascist. Meir Kahane (an ultraZionist [far-rightwing] rabbi assassinated in New York in 1990) was both.

Petofi may yet (soon) step over that line.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Member

OT Yesterday Canada’s Liberal Party defeated the Conservative Party (after ten years of being in power). Through the campaign the Conservatives ran a ‘bit of a dirty campaign. Still last night the defeated Conservative PM said the following: “While tonight’s result is certainly not the one we had hoped for, the people are never wrong,” said the prime minister, adding he had called Trudeau and “assured him of my full co-operation during the process of transition in the coming days.”
We all know what Orban said when he was defeated, and Hungarians are still paying the price because of the ego of this little man. Every step Oeban takes, every friend he chooses, most action he takes is about wanting to make something or someone inferior to him, and to his ideas.

petofi
Guest

@exTor

“Petofi may yet (soon) step over that line.”
Hmm, that has the odoriferousness of a threat.
I’m sure that being a simple bike-jockey you didn’t mean it that way.

Actually, I slam jews, too, but not yet on this blog. In fact, I know of a particular, religious, jewish businessman who has made me understand anti-semitism, or at least, some of the roots of it (after 67 years on the planet).

Indeed, I am anti-Islamic. It has nothing to do with the migrants/refugees–more to do with the religion itself and what it teaches, and what it aims to do.

Webber
Guest

exTor – “It had not occurred to me, however, that certain disaffected Roma could be induced to connect with jihadists in the Levant. That too is possible.”

Actually, it is not. Or rather, it’s just as possible that a disaffected impoverished ethnic Hungarian Christian might be induced to connect with jihadists in the Levant.

It’s also possible that I’ll get all five numbers on the lottery right this week (though I’m not playing).

It’s also possible that the world will end next Tuesday (why it would, I do not know: but then why would a Christian or atheist Roma join jihadists?)

It’s also possible – it truly is – that the zebras in the zoo will escape and run down my street tomorrow at 10 in the morning. I might want to get my camera ready for that a little before 10!

Don’t imagine weird things that might happen. There’s no end to them.

Tyrker
Guest

Trócsányi did say some “interesting” things about radicalising Gypsies, but he did not say anything about them joining jihadists in Syria: http://igyirnankmi.atlatszo.hu/2015/10/20/trocsanyi-laszlo-nem-beszelt-dzsihadista-romakrol/

Guest

Perhaps Spöttle’s experiences while on board the UFO are the cause of his glazed expression?

Guest

Re: ‘Perhaps Spöttle’s experiences while on board the UFO are the cause of his glazed expression’

Hehe..Last night I watched ‘Interstellar’ that high concept flick of sci-fi bringing in space travel, doomsday for Earth, Einsteinian relativity etc. Very interesting film btw echoing the great one …’2001′. Curious if the very ‘rationalizing’ gang above would understand it all. Maybe Spottle since he’s had UFO experience…the aliens no doubt filled him in…;-)…

But anyway the ‘glazed expression’ suggests Spotso might be possibly suffering the effects of ‘wormholes’. What you get are results of shoving a square through a round hole. I would understand then…fuzzy thinking. Has to be the motif of most government communications. Those guys really come from another galaxy..;-)…

csoport
Guest

By the way yesterday Laszló Trócsányi claimed that there is a real danger that European gipsies will radicalize and join ISIS – I shit you not.

Tyrker
Guest

He didn’t say anything whatsoever about European Gypsies joining ISIS:
http://igyirnankmi.atlatszo.hu/2015/10/20/trocsanyi-laszlo-nem-beszelt-dzsihadista-romakrol/

Reality Check
Guest

He did talk about them becoming radicalized. In the context of his comments, it suggests they too might become a dangerous element. But, he has no evidence that this is occurring. Yet, he still risks creating fear of this group equivalent to the fear of terrorists and therefore putting Roma at further risk of violence.

tappanch
Guest

Economy.

In 2015, Hungary had to repay around 1.2 billion euros of non-forint denominated loans.

Next year, this obligation will be 5.4 billion. The majority (3.3) of this amount is due between March 30 and May 25.

http://www.portfolio.hu/deviza_kotveny/allampapirpiac/koteltanc_var_magyarorszagra_jovore.221198.html

There is a growing difference in the number of “fostered” workers as reported by the Statistical Office for August (211.7 thousand in 2015, up from 195.1 in 2014) and by the Interior Ministry (250 thousand). They earn a net of 170 euros a month for full time work.
comment image

http://www.ksh.hu/docs/hun/xstadat/xstadat_evkozi/e_qli037.html

Istvan
Guest
An interesting CBS program on the European refugee crisis was aired on Sunday night here in the USA. It can be viewed at http://www.cbsnews.com/news/seeking-asylum-60-minutes-anderson-cooper/ There are many interesting visuals in this short 12 minute story, there are also interesting discussions with people on the ground. Anderson Cooper the CBS lead reporter in this story jumps to Austria where he states: “At Austria’s border with Germany, we found hundreds sleeping in tents waiting to be allowed to cross. German authorities had just slowed down the entrance process. Only a handful at a time were being allowed in. Not far away, at Salzburg’s central train station, hundreds more were waiting in an underground garage.” Cooper has an interview with Salzburg’s Mayor Heinz Schaden. Anderson Cooper: Do you get advanced notice when Germany decides to slow the number of people coming through? Heinz Schaden: I don’t get advanced notice but I notice right away. Anderson Cooper: Can you even imagine what would happen if Germany closed its borders? Heinz Schaden: I don’t want to imagine that, because then we have a situation which will be a humanitarian catastrophe. Anderson Cooper: Do you worry about security? Do you really know who a lot of… Read more »
Marcel Dé (@MarcelD10)
Guest
grid
Guest

The most important question about Nogradi??

Is he or is he not Jewish?

The reason it has relevance is that his most ardent fans are crazy anti-smite right-wingers and Nogradi knows this. And his fans would not be happy to hear about his jewishness.

http://martonbede.tumblr.com/post/131676046414/egyetlen-fontos-k%C3%A9rd%C3%A9s-maradt-n%C3%B3gr%C3%A1di-%C3%BCgyben

robocat
Guest
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