Anti-American and anti-Israeli voices in connection with the refugee crisis

Viktor Orbán is very angry with György Soros, who in late September published a statement titled “Rebuilding the Asylum System” in which he outlined a plan that goes against everything that Viktor Orbán stands for. Soros in that statement offers six suggestions that would result, in his opinion, in the eventual absorption and integration of “more than a million asylum seekers and migrants a year.” But Soros is not the only one on Orbán’s black list. The other culprit is Angela Merkel, chancellor of Germany. Though not calling out either Merkel or Germany by name, he noted in his speech on Friday that “it is not correct to invite people into our country and then divvy them up among other nations.”

Ever since Merkel announced at the beginning of September that Germany is ready to accept up to a million refugees this year she has been under attack by the Hungarian right. Magyar Narancs reported on September 17 that an organization that calls itself Honfoglalás 2000 (Conquest 2000) demanded Merkel’s resignation. The organization is a strong supporter of Viktor Orbán and Fidesz. Merkel was accused of being the leader of a country that had already inflicted immense pain and suffering on the people of Europe, including six million deaths, in the course of two world wars. The same country is now in the process of causing a third disaster by inviting Muslim migrants into Christian Europe. The statement specifically mentioned among the victims Jews, Gypsies, and left-wingers. The reference to the Holocaust is no accident. Right-wingers often connect German guilt for the Holocaust with their foolishly generous welcome of strangers from other cultures.

But this criticism has become even more strident of late. By now it is not only far-right sources like hir.ma and alfahir that are calling Merkel practically a dictator for forbidding the German police to report publicly about the alleged 750 incidents that have involved newly arrived migrants. The new, pro-government paper, Magyar Idők, has joined the chorus. 

Yesterday two op/ed articles on Merkel appeared in this new mouthpiece of the Hungarian government. One of the authors simply expressed his fervent hope that Horst Seehofer will manage to force Merkel’s resignation. The other, much more interesting piece was written by Tamás Fricz, a so-called political scientist, whose admiration for Viktor Orbán knows no bounds. Fricz used to have a weekly column in Magyar Nemzet, which he left in a great hurry to join the new “government paper” edited by the same people who earlier had made Magyar Nemzet practically unreadable. Unfortunately, we cannot simply ignore Magyar Idők because its articles and editorials give us a window into the thinking of Viktor Orbán and his underlings. The only good thing I can say in connection with Tamás Fricz is that he is no longer an employee of the Hungarian Academy of Sciences’ Institute of Political Science. I guess Fricz’s extracurricular activities became too embarrassing.

Yesterday Fricz published the fruit of his sharp intellect under the headline “It is a mystery what makes Merkel tick.” But, it turns out, it is not a mystery at all because Fricz knows the answer full well. Here it goes.

A few years back, thanks to Wikileaks, it came to light that the American National Security Agency (NSA) had wiretapped Angela Merkel’s cell phone. Everybody expected a huge diplomatic scandal but nothing happened except for some hemming and hawing. What does this mean? That not only are there strong ties between the two countries but also that Angela Merkel is not an equal partner in this relationship. Just last May it became known that the NSA and the German secret service had cooperated on wiretapping the Élysée Palace, the European Commission, and several European conglomerates. Therefore, it is likely that the Americans know absolutely everything about Angela Merkel. It is also likely that the German and U.S. governments are cooperating in refugee affairs.

This logic may be suspect, but what comes after is truly bizarre, especially since Fricz doesn’t bother to give any reasons for his hypothesis. His supposition is that a “multi-racial, multi-cultural, federal Europe” is the ideal partner for the United States and global financial interests. But why? I would have loved to find out because I’m intrigued. Unfortunately, Fricz skipped that crucial step.

Naturally, the state of Israel is part of this conspiracy theory. After some searching, Fricz found a quotation from a speech that Merkel delivered in the Knesset in March 2008. Unfortunately for Tamás Fricz, the whole speech is available in English on the Knesset’s website. Here is the original:

Here of all places I want to explicitly stress that every German Government and every German Chancellor before me has shouldered Germany’s special historical responsibility for Israel’s security. This historical responsibility is part of my country’s raison d’être. For me as German Chancellor, therefore, Israel’s security will never be open to negotiation. And that being the case, we must do more than pay lip-service to this commitment at this critical point. Together with its partners, Germany is setting its sights on a diplomatic solution. But if Iran does not come around, the German government will remain fully committed to sanctions.

Angela Merkel addressing the Knesset

Angela Merkel addressing the Knesset

So, let’s see what came of these sentences in Fricz’s “translation.”

Germany’s responsibility for Israel is my country’s raison d’être. In other words, the security of Israel for me as chancellor of Germany cannot be the subject of bargaining. But if it were to become such, in the hour of verification [of this commitment] these words wouldn’t remain empty phrases.

On the basis of this so-called translation Fricz comes to the conclusion that Merkel’s words actually mean that Germany, together with the United States, will be ready to fight alongside Israeli forces against Iran. As is clear from the original text, Merkel was talking about sanctions against Iran “if Iran does not come around.” I am still surprised at the brazen falsification of facts, figures, and texts by these people.

Fricz’s overall conclusion is that Merkel in her decisions is not “completely independent.” This is a big problem and “a danger for Europe.” But there is still hope. Merkel loves power and doesn’t want to leave her post. Under growing pressure from the right she will have to compromise in order to keep her job.

Yet another attempt to foment hatred of both the United States and Israel, and to implicate Germany in this web of conspiracy–once again, with no respect for the facts.

Sort by:   newest | oldest | most voted
Member

I sincerely hope,that the German people and especially the businessman, who conduct international trade will consider better places to build, run and manage their businesses than Hungary. A dog that bites the feeder’s hand in not a dog to keep.
P.S. I hope George Soros will also take his money to places, where goodwill is not only appreciated, but reciprocated.

Latefor
Guest

The face of Europe has been successfully changed. Mission accomplished. Two different cultures have to learn to live with each other, to respect each others’ believes and values. (It would’ve been more humain to re-build their countries.) As the saying goes: “Always the stronger dog f<**s!” Let’s wait and see who will come out a winner. As we all know: “The winner takes it all!”

Member

This seems to be day of the canine analogies. To me it seems while the dogs on the west are mating blissfully the Hungarian Puli keeps leghumping a tree.

During Kadar, in the ancient regime, at least in the 80s, you could get by if you kept your mouth shut. Only the lies the media and the schools were dumping on you were nauseating. But today the way Orban’s little rent-a-goebbels team is cranking the bunk-o-matic puts the Kadar propaganda machine to shame.

Latefor
Guest

Mutt – maybe it’s time for some western dogs to take a rest from the humping or a nice German Shepherd could bite of his thingilingi. And some other dogs (less powerful, smaller in statue) can be silenced with a tasty, chunky big bone. Dogs are clever animals, they understand what it takes to be a “good dog” to survive, therefore they know how to obey their master.

webber
Guest

I wonder whether Orban just attracts the mentally ill, or actually causes mental illness?

Albrecht Neumerker
Guest

Probably both.

Observer
Guest

In these regimes most have to fall in behind the leader, not next not in front. Now, if the latter happens to be half baked, small village upstart (félművelt felcsuti félcigány is even worse) with few dated ideas of the 60s and 70s what can be expected.
Just follow the changes of his entourage from his first government to now.

Re persecution – small communities, yes, but in the big cities it is not that bad yet. Too many to suppress, and the regime knows they are of little importance. Chop the leaders, as usual.
So we can breath, for now.

exTor
Guest

Only one out of three, Observer.
Nem félcigány, sem félművelt.
Az egyik igazság, felcsuti.

There isn’t one person in Hungary who would consider Viktor Orbán to be félművelt [uncultured, unrefined, unaccomplished, etcetera].

No one has yet shown any credible proof that Viktor Orbán has even one drop of Roma blood in him. That fact NWS, more than half of Hungary believes that he is part-Gypsy, which does not make him félcigány.

The one fact you have is that Viktor Orbán is from Felcsut.

Cant win shooting blanks, Observer.

MAGYARKOZÓ

webber
Guest

Fricz’s nuttiness was apparent more than a year ago when he made the following announcement:

“‘CÖF would reform the European Union on the pattern of the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy’ said Tamás Fricz, founder of CÖF. According to the plan, the administration of foreign, military and financial affairs would be subsumed to common control.” – reported in Magyar Nemzet, 6 June 2014.

So, Fricz thinks CÖF can reform the EU -and that people in Brussels will be interested in his ideas … (the mouse roars/köhög a bolha)
And Fricz plans to give Brussels far, far greater powers than it has now – the powers Franz-Joseph always kept for himself (delightful! That system had such wonderful results!).
II. Rákóczi F., Kossuth, and a long list of Hungarian heroes are turning in their graves.

In Hungarian:
„A Civil Összefogás Fórum (CÖF) az Osztrák-Magyar mintájára alakítaná át
az Európai Uniót… – közölte Fricz Tamás CÖF-alapító. A tervezet szerint, közös irányítás alá kerülne a külügyi, a hadügyi és a pénzügyi admininisztráció…” Magyar Nemzet, 2014. június 6.

Guest

Here is the link to the fruit of Fritz’s sharp intellect: http://magyaridok.hu/velemeny/ki-es-mi-mozgatja-merkel-kancellar-asszonyt-72620/

Member

Air pollution

@Latefor: “…maybe it’s time for some western dogs to take a rest from the humping or a nice German Shepherd could bite of his thingilingi…”

Ceterum censeo: “Latefor” — obviously as bonkers as she is vulgar — should be barred from posting on Hungarian Spectrum. Sounds like bipolar disorder (hence the periodicity) or perhaps just borderline personality, but that’s no excuse. There are serious, civilized thinkers who are following this forum on a somber topic touching on civilization itself; it is being archived in the Library of Congress. There’s no reason for repeat offenders to be allowed to keep using it as a megaphone for airing their symptoms.

exTor
Guest

MUCH ADO ABOUT NOT MUCH ???

“megaphone for airing their symptoms”
I laughed when I read your snippet, Stevan.

There’s an air of truth to your words, however I think that you’re overreacting to Latefor. In Melanie’s defense, she was following a suggestive comment by Mutt.

To be sure, Latefor says things I wouldn’t say in a way I wouldn’t say, however there is no need to banish her.

Just because this is being archived in the Library of Congress –first I’ve heard of that– doesn’t mean that this website’s posts have to look like they flowed from the pens of Catholic clergy.

A lot of shit has landed on these pages, including the use of four-letter words like ‘shit’. We can chill on Mel.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Latefor
Guest

Extor – wow! Thank you! May I suggest to ask a great Liberal thinker to check my posts prior to posting. How about. . . hm . . .Sasha M. Cohen? (BORAT)
Let the butchery of Stevan Haward begin! (Manipulating your perception of me)

Guest

Re: ‘A lot of shit has landed on these pages, including the use of four-letter words like ‘shit’……’

Reminds me of a bit I just read recently regarding the events in Sumte. The debasement of language used in conveying ideas also gives an indication of how political debasement say moves toward the ‘mean’. I was stunned frankly to read this said by a National Socialist. Asked if the individual was a neo-Nazi he responded, ‘No, I am a National Socialist – in other words , a real Nazi. We are not extremists , but people have become so soft that we seem extreme’. So this unfortunately is what Merkel and the EU have to deal with. Count on the far-right to foment more disturbance to Germany’s goals.

Latefor
Guest

Stevan Haward,
Just in case you find my style fascinating ,- apart from Amazon.com – one of my books is also available at Astoria Bookshop in New York, Manhattan. (Not far from 5th Avenue) 🙂

exTor
Guest

http://www.astoriabookshop.com/search/site/zuben

Congrats on getting your books into the Astoria Bookshop, Mel, however a search reveals that your books are not currently in stock.

Perhaps Stevan will be okay with electronic versions.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Latefor
Guest

Extor – Astoria (and many bookshops today ) operates like this. Make an order and they will send it to you.

Latefor
Guest

Stevan Haward – There is famous saying: “Being considered ‘crazy’ by those who are victims of cultural conditioning is actually a compliment”. (The quote must be from an ultra-Liberal thinker)

Istvan
Guest
Tamás Fricz’s theory relating to my government’s wire tapping of Chancellor Merkel was unique I thought. Fricz also leaves out the possibility that the NSA/CIA might also know a significant amount about PM Orban’s discussions with Putin for that matter. There is all kinds of intelligence gathered by my government, most of which is not what is called actionable. I think it is true that President Obama has a multicultural vision. I mean after all he is himself the very essence of multiculturalism. But that does not translate into a vision of open borders or mass acceptance of refugees from the Middle East. I just do not see strong support or opposition for Merkel’s position on accepting one million refugees coming from official US government statements. Part of this position is due to our own backlog of asylum seekers to the USA caused by a surge in applications for asylum over the past few years from refugees from Central America. As Jesus states in John 8:7: “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.” The Obama administration proposes to increase the number of worldwide refugees the United States accepts each year to 100,000… Read more »
buddy
Guest

Sorry to get off-topic here, but I’d just like to add that I think that immigration politics in the US is actually quite simple.

Immigrants to the US, once they obtain citizenship, tend to vote disproportionately Democratic (one exception is the Cuban community in Florida, who tend to be uber-Republican). So naturally the Democrats support immigration, asylum, etc, while the Republicans tend to oppose it. Demographic trends in general are not moving in the GOP’s favor, so the party can’t afford to let in even more Democratic voters.

I guess the GOP could try to win over new immigrants, but that would be hard work and cause a lot of internal conflicts within the party, especially with Trump surging at the moment. So instead they just oppose immigration wholesale.

Ok, I’m probably over-simplifying the issue here, but fundamentally I feel this is at the root of the parties’ respective views on immigration.

webber
Guest

buddy
You are definitely oversimplifying the issue here.
Hispanic immigrants – the vast majority of immigrants in the US – tend to have more conservative values than the American average. They are “natural” Republican voters, which is something some Republicans (notably in Texas) have recognized. Hispanic immigrants definitely tend to vote for those Republicans who campaign on the anti-immigrant theme.
G.W. Bush jr. did a good job of attracting Hispanic votes, in part by campaigning in Spanish.
Rubio could do it, too. His mother tongue is Spanish. He is the child of Cuban refugees.

exTor
Guest

https://thecontrarianhungarian.wordpress.com

Does anyone know this person, whose last article was 3 years ago? The website owner is probably male and probably lives in Budapest. I stumbled onto his defunct site (which only existed 19 months) via occasional HS poster Sentrooppa-Santra. TCH’s views are consonant with this website.

MAGYARKOZÓ

webber
Guest

TCH probably doesn’t want to be identified, otherwise s/he would not have made him/herself anonymous.
Again, for your edification: If you are Hungarian living in Hungary and you engage in this sort of mild opposition activity, you can expect to be seriously harassed, and you might lose your job. (as if you did not know this by now!)

Why do you need to know who TCH is? I find it very strange.

I also find it very strange that you defend the bizarre, disruptive, and insincere behavior a certain someone here (see certain comments to me yesterday)

exTor
Guest
For my edification or for my erudition? I get it, webber. I misphrased my query owing to brainfog, the concomitant of overyposting. I dont actually want to idee the person, I just want to know what happened to him. The voxer is likely male. My interest is merely personal. I often see websites that seemingly peter out, as TCH’s apparently did. Sometimes sites morph into different sites. The fact that Éva posts daily staggers me. I was curious about TCH because he’s a native-born Hungarian (again I presume) who writes very well, at least from the little that I read. Further to the Richard Field piece, some have misconstrued the point of my posts. I fully understand the potential and the real hazards of speaking against Fidesz in Hungary. I realize that there have been serious repercussions. I would not reveal my name willingly to just anyone. That said, I still stand by my comment that the people who have been harmed by Fidesz –they likely number in the thousands– do not amount to a sizable-enough percentage that can electorally do much to Viktor Orbán. That, of course, is contrary to what Richard Field contends. As I read him, he… Read more »
Guest

TCH was very interesting – you could feel the frustration of a person living “among stupid masses or the enemy” – it’s a real pity that the site is quasi defunct.

Re melanie:
Yes, one probably shouldn’t engage her, but her regurgitating stuff like “two thirds of Hungarians voted for Orbán because they admire him” and her constant pushing her book (I was tempted to write: prostituting her book …) also irks me – and many others.
She really is a disruptive troll!

PS:
I’m a moderator at a German forum (concerned with totally different stuff, not politics) and we would have locked her out a long time ago, if only for her constant self-advertising!

webber
Guest

http://www.yourdictionary.com/edification

My comment about the mentally ill was general, and in reaction to Eva’s blog entry. It was not personal. I wasn’t thinking of latefor when I wrote it. Interesting that you did!

exTor
Guest

Well then, webber, my apology to you for my error, which was a natural, because your post followed her post & because Stevan Harnad had made a comment questioning her (shall we say) togetherness. I guess I also owe Latefor a sorry.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Guest

London Calling!

I agree ‘Latefor’s’ comments are trite, shallow and of no consequence.

I abhor ExTor’s familiarity with ‘Mel’ and ‘Melanie’ – not to mention his defence of her.

I have found the constant advertising of her illiterate books on here an insult to Eva’s blog.

I don’t believe Eva welcomes her contributions.

I foolishly made the mistake of looking up one day one of the advertised efforts. I soon came to the conclusion that: literacy skills are deeply deficient; content complete trash; and the whole book needs a decent proofread and editor (don’t bother) – based on the little I read. Not to mention the spelling errors.

I have found some of her contributions consistent with being a religious bigot.

Yes begone.

I agree Stevan Harnad.

Regards

Charlie

ENGYARKOZÓ

exTor
Guest

But Char, Mel is
such a lot of fun.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Latefor
Guest

CharlieH – Thank you for your negative comments. They always increase my book sales!

Guest

And that’s all that really counts – I knew it!
You’re obviously not at all interested in Hungary’s people …

Latefor
Guest

“London Calling!” – Are you calling the Eurovision with your vote or smtg?

Re: my precious books.

In my defence re: my writing skills

I was about to purchase a kindle book by a European Noble Price winner (Literature), when I came across the reviews. (1* – 3* reviews, that is)

This is from the critic of “The Guardian” (he gave 5*), re: the above book:
” What is killing the novel is people’s growing dependence on feel-good fiction, fantasy and non-fiction. With this comes an inability or unwillingness to tolerate any irregularities of form, a prissy quibbling over capital letters, punctiliousness about punctuation. They act like we’re still at school! Real writing is not about rules. It’s about electrifying prose, it’s about play.”

Those days are well and truly over when the so- called “critics” decide what is good reading and what is not!
Please refrain yourself from reviewing my masterpieces.

Member
@exTor, I would just like to point out that Latefor is not as harmless as you believe and all you did was encourage her to continue some of the most ignorant commentary I have seen outside of politics.hu. Did you see the response to your defense? I believe it was somewhere along the lines of “Let the butchery of Stevan Harnad begin”. Truly believes she has an ally to make a mockery of this site. She thinks she can change the thinking of posters here to her point of view and likely thinks she will benefit by having a free stage to promote her “books”. I think that you are very mistaken about what posters responses have been to her. They disagree with her for a reason, it may seem as though people are picking on her, but that is because most forward thinking people simply disagree. So either we ignore her or we speak up and point out what is wrong with her ideology as this is how dialogue and debate works. Telling people to back off and leave her alone is simply you trying to control how people express their opinions on this site. As a compliment to… Read more »
Latefor
Guest

Lis Aucoin – Bullying, intimidation, public denigration, silencing people, vilification laced with arrogance. At the same time, you are convinced that your own beliefs are the only right profecy to spread around, and willing to impose it on the Hungarians to the exclusion of alternative views.
I guess, I’ ve been no different than you are on this blog: promoting my own self interest. And you’re complaining about fairness? You all agree with each other on this blog, completely un-oposed! What kind of an open debate is this?

You don’t have to answer.

Member

An other fallacy presented by latefor: ” You all agree with each other on this blog, completely un-oposed! ”
latefor: If you would actually read other people’s opinion versus trying to promote yourself, you would see that many people do not agree with each other on this blog. In fact (if you recall) I got in to a disagreement with those who attacked you a very few months back. (I regret it now, I must admit, even though I did not agree with them.) I do not agree wit the Hungarian bashing, and I did write about that a very few times. I did not agree with Eva’s opinion on not having parents able to “rate” teachers. Extor and others supported that opinion, and I did not. I am still here. wolfi got into disagreement with others in the past and so did Harnad. You see, you should keep your fiction for your books. 😉

Guest

We “all” agree on one thing:
The corrupt Fidesz regime is bad for Hungary and it will lead to more people leaving the country until only those remain which are either too weak to leave or (like you …) adore Orbán.
Btw, since you adore Orbán so much, why don’t you come to live here – you can promote your crap as well from Hungary …

Latefor
Guest

Wolfi – I have to admit: my books are NOT written for angry, frustrated old men. Your aging heart wouldn’t be able to handle some of the hot sex scenes. 🙂

Guest

latefor, you really are a lunatic!
Anyway I prefer to have hot sex with my wife – and yes, we both are over 70, can you imagine?
And now just f*ck off!

exTor
Guest
I intend to keep telling people to not engage with Latefor. She’s quirky and a little too Orbáncentric, but so be it. My advice to the community that has cohered around this website is to not bother with her, to let her blather empty into the Australian ether. Latefor/Melanie is that person at a family gettogether who makes that one weird right-out-of-the-blue comment that stops the conversation, which causes everybody to pause and to look at that person, after which everybody goes back to conversing as before, effectively ignoring the weird commenter. Most people who see a person talking to himself on the street –why do most selftalkers seem to be male– will not engage with that person. I expect the readers of Hungarian Spectrum to act likewise with Latefor. Tangentially, I would and have stopped to engage selftalkers in public. I’m a big guy, over 6-foot-tall, so I dont sweat my safety. On one occasion, riding southbound on the Yonge [Toronto] subway, I went up to a male loudly talking about God. I dont recall the specifics of our exchange, except telling him that I dont ‘do God’, a phraseology that I often employ. I do recall, however, telling… Read more »
Latefor
Guest

ExTor – Have you been blackmailed or something? 🙂
PLEASE do not answer.
Also, would you please give my love and a my big thanks to Eva. (For allowing me to promote my books.)
Cheers!

Member

contrarian used to post here. I cannot remember what name he used. Maybe if you search for him you can find him on this blog from long time ago.

wpDiscuz