Commissioner Tibor Navracsics on the Orbán government and the European Union

After spending some time on foreign policy issues, I will return to domestic affairs by analyzing two Tibor Navracsics interviews given a day apart, to mandiner.hu and Magyar Nemzet. As you most likely remember, Tibor Navracsics at one point was Viktor Orbán’s right-hand man who in the second Orbán government was named deputy prime minister in addition to his post as minister of justice. Currently, he is EU commissioner for education, culture, youth, and sport.

Tibor Navracsics was considered to be a moderate, although I find it difficult to forgive him for assisting Viktor Orbán as minister of justice in the destruction of Hungarian democracy. His encounters with Vivian Reding, EU justice commissioner, are hard to forget. On many occasions, with his “reasonableness” and polite manner, he served Orbán well. And let me quote myself here, from the first part of my review of Eleni Kounalakis’s memoirs: “He could explain in a most reasonable manner how Orbán’s undemocratic policies were not undemocratic at all. A case in point is a conversation between Attorney General Eric Holder and Navracsics that resulted in Holder’s not bringing up the question of the Hungarian media law because Navracsics ‘eloquently explained the government’s position.’ (p. 163)”

These two interviews are not the first Navracsics gave this year. A couple of months after his appointment as EU commissioner he gave one to 444.hu, in which he addressed many of the same points he dealt with in the two new interviews. But today, eight months later, in the middle of the refugee crisis, Navracsics’s criticism of political life in Hungary has sharpened. Although theoretically it would be possible for Viktor Orbán to recall Navracsics from Brussels because of his open disagreement with the prime minister’s views, in reality it is unlikely that Navracsics will not complete his full five-year term as an EU commissioner. He is liberated in a way.

Navracsics3

The first interview was conducted by András Stumpf, an aggressive fellow whose style doesn’t appeal to me. Stumpf tried his darndest to make Navracsics condemn the European Commission as a useless body headed by a drunkard who was chosen by the “great powers” to be their puppet. He rather undiplomatically called the Commission insignificant. Not the best way to start a conversation with one of the commissioners.

During the conversation, while Stumpf kept denigrating the Commission as a weak, bureaucratic mediator between the European Parliament and the European Council, Navracsics took a strong stand in defense of the Commission as well as of the European Union. The Commission’s role as a mediator is powerful and Juncker is perfect for that job, he claimed. After his last round of EU bashing, Stumpf pretty well gave up and moved on to presumably less risky topics, mostly about the relationship between the member states and the Commission. And at this point Navracsics began his complaints about the Orbán government’s methods of dealing with Brussels. “The greatest problem the Commission encounters with the Hungarian government is that it is ready to talk to the officials of the Commission only when there is already trouble (balhé).”

Navracsics doesn’t share Viktor Orbán’s mistaken notion that Hungary has never been a multicultural state. Unlike Orbán, he doesn’t see danger in immigration either. The problem is that the two sides take extreme points of view: either no immigrant can come or all can come. In the West people are accustomed to receiving large numbers of immigrants, while in Eastern Europe, because of invasions and unsuccessful attempts at integration, people see them as dangers. Stumpf got the impression that Navracsics considers “western integration a success story,” surely a sin in Stumpf’s eyes. In any case, although Navracsics nowhere called western integration a success story, he certainly stands by the Commission against those individual member states who refuse to cooperate.

It was at this point that Navracsics made a statement that has shaken the Hungarian media and public. He revealed that he is practically the only leading Fidesz politician who is pro-European Union. So, that means that the whole Fidesz leadership by now is Euroskeptic, and if they could, they would gladly leave the European Union.

In connection with Navracsics’s “exile to Brussels,” Stumpf brought up the rumor that circulated in 2013-2014 that Viktor Orbán was not convinced of Navracsics’s loyalty. Hence, the story went, he was sent to Brussels so he couldn’t build a base of support in Hungary. If we can believe Navracsics, he was chosen because by then he was the only possible candidate who would have accepted the job. His faith in the future of the European Union is still strong, and in the struggle between the institutions of the European Union and the European Council he takes the side of the former.

Navracsics’s second interview with Magyar Nemzet is also revealing. Although some of the topics were repeated, this time he leveled even more specific criticisms of the Orbán government’s dealing with the European Union. “Double standard” is the usual Hungarian complaint. The Hungarian government claims that the European Union deals with Hungary more severely than with other member states. The question was whether this is still the case. Navracsics was unwilling to blame the EU for treating Hungary unfairly. Instead, he said that he is convinced that the government’s unyielding attitude and harsh, antagonistic communication alienates EU officials. A willingness to cooperate is totally missing, and as long as this is the case Hungary will not be successful in Brussels. In fact, in Navracsics’s opinion the Orbán government has defined itself in opposition to the European Union.

Another topic that came up in the Magyar Nemzet interview was the role of the United States in the refugee crisis. Is the United States trying to turn EU member states against one another? What is the new U.S. offensive against Hungary all about? Navracsics was not about to fall into this trap, and he refused to engage in any kind of U.S. bashing. In fact, he noted that the United States actually accepted the Hungarian solution of building fences around the perimeter of the country. He defended Merkel as “one of the most significant politicians” today. Viktor Orbán is among the strong political actors, “but those who believe that a leader must consider all circumstances and factors think he is far too radical.” One has the feeling that Navracsics is among them.

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exTor
Guest

This piece partially answered a question that I had for a while, namely: Are there members of Fidesz who are liable to be critical of Fidesz? I cannot believe that everyone in Fidesz is absolutely happy with Orbán.

When has Hungary actually been negatively impacted by its contrary actions with respect to the EU?

In the second-last paragraph you seem to side with the thought that Hungary used to be treated unfairly by the EU. [“The question was whether this is still the case.”] Is that what you meant, Éva?

MAGYARKOZÓ

WesleyVsky
Guest

Thanks for your articles. Very informative for those of us who can not read Hungarian.

Guest
London Calling! Making Tibor Navracsic EU commissioner for education, culture, youth, and sport was one of Juncker’s most egregious appointments he ever made. And one of the EUs worst ‘expedient’ get-rid-of-a-problem’ appointments ever – putting the EU’s reputation at rock bottom. In one of the most important portfolios of the Commission. Many MEPs were up in arms at the decision. Hungary’s so-called education system has nothing to commend it – with the crass promotion of Wass and Nyírő in the syllabus and the total retrograde classroom ‘cramming’ style of the teaching system – allowing no debate or interaction with the teacher. This is no ‘best-practice’ teaching at all. Then consider that no Hungarian University is rated higher than 460 in the world index why should Hungary have the education, culture, youth and sport portfolio? A completely non-sensical appointment that received a lot of flak at the time – quite understandably. Like putting the fox Navracsic in charge of the chicken hut. ‘Smart as a fox’? hardly – an opportunist with no principals. Some on here have praised Juncker. I warned at the time that Juncker, coming from dozy Luxembourg, was a disaster. He is. The last straw for me was… Read more »
exTor
Guest

Juncker skunk-drunk? Doubt it.

The nice thing about the ‘dictator’ miniepisode is that it exposed Orbán for what many think of him, a dictator-in-the-making, or at least a wannabe dictator, a Fidelista Fideszista.

Orbán had to wear his mantle, red-faced, silently, knowingly.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Guest

Disagree.

It shows how Juncker and the EU treat Orban and Orban’s Hungary – a joke.

Do the poverty-stricken population of Hungary and all the downtrodden underclass think it’s a “nice thing”?

Do you think the people who hope the EU would assist in rejecting their dictator (even if it’s fanciful) think it’s a “nice thing”?

Do you think the nurse – highly qualified – who’s coming to England because she hates her ‘little dictator’ thinks it’s a “nice thing”?

Is it a “nice thing” just to confirm he’s a dictator – which many of us – and his population know?

No. The ‘nice thing’ it tells Orban – and us – is that he’s safe and the EU will tolerate him as their friendly little dictator – and they have no intention of changing the status quo.

Nice Thing.

Guest

Charlie, after Hungarians in 2010 voted in Orbán, they got a second chance in 2014 – but again almost half voted for him …
So what is the EU to do?
As long as he doesn’t declare war on the neighbouring countries (Trianon …) it’s an inner-Hungarian problem …

webber
Guest

Oh, is it now…. an internal Hungarian problem…
Well, I hope you enjoy Orban campaigning against Merkel in Germany.
Just an internal problem, after all.
And I am sure that Croats appreciate Orban’s fence as an internal problem.
And what about the corruption and misuse of EU funds? Just an internal problem?
How about the masses of Hungarians leaving the country to work in the EU? Just an internal problem?
Paks, and Russian influence? Nuclear energy, just an internal problem? (it is until and unless there’s an accident I guess).

Wolfi – I understand what you mean, and to a point I agree with you, but I think we are beyond this point now. The rot starts here.

Guest

Re: ‘So what is the EU to do?’

Maybe kind of simple. Link ‘human rights’ and all its concomitant baggage to the moolah they get. Perhaps one direct way to get to the point. And anyway isn’t it one of the cornerstones of EU policy?

Member

Not so fast. Over and over it was discussed how corrupt that election went. Many cities had no choice as Orban openly suggested that only those cities will get any monetary support where Fidesz stays in power. There are democratic elections, and there are elections where people have no choice.
I assume you believe that in North Korea everything is OK too. You know that 100% of people vote there? All seats are won by the Democratic Front for the Reunification of the Fatherland at the last election!

exTor
Guest

A relationship is reciprocal. In other words, the behavior of one party bears on another party. It is not for nothing that Hungary (in the name of Viktor Orbán) is viewed as a European problem child.

Your points about this and that Hungarian are valid, but irrelevant. What is more important is that (amongst the sundry opinions about Juncker’s ‘dictator’ backslap) Viktor Orbán felt the sting bigtime.

Orbán knows full well that people around the world, around Hungary, and probably around Fidesz, have played and continue to play that video snippet for laughs.

And you know, CharlieH, that’s gotta hurt the ego. We’re not talking average-size ego here, we’re talking Orbán ego. We’re talking about the ego of the person who will save Europe from itself.

That brief video thingie is much bigger than you imagine and its ramifications play out far wider than you may conceive of.

MAGYARKOZÓ

bimbi
Guest
Yes, Mr. Navracsics is EU commissioner for education, culture, youth, and sport and now appears to be taking a sympathetic position with respect to the EU, as well he might since he is an EU employee. However, before we elevate the Commissioner for Education to the role of Chief anti-Orban mole, we should ask what he has done for education in Hungary. Has anyone heard of any step taken by Mr. Navracsics to oppose the establishment by Christian minister Balog of apartheid schools for Roma in Hungary or the inclusion of openly fascist writers in the Hungarian school curriculum? If not, one has to ask just what his role is in Brussels. Perhaps like the Hungarian Orban-led government famous for its addiction to Brussels hand-outs (by the billion!), so Mr. Navracsics is also happy to reap the rewards of his office. There used to be a saying, “Action speaks louder than words”, but perhaps that is passé these days. In my view there is a serious case to be made for excluding Hungary from the EU. We have heard (these days almost daily) how Orban likes to pour contempt on the organization (but he loves the billions of Euro they… Read more »
exTor
Guest
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_controversies Richard Wagner is now as notorious for his antisemitism as he is renowned for his music. In Israel there is a cultural (but not legal) ban on the playing of anything associated with Wagner, however there has been the occasional –protested– performance of Wagner. Artistic purity is presumed. The problem with art is the problem with its creators. Either the art is judged to suck, as some feel about Hitler’s paintings, or it’s acknowledged as being good (or better-than-good) however that art is shunned because of its creator’s perceived lack of requisite (sufficient?) moral goodness. Such is the case of Richard Wagner. But it aint that easy, folks. Does free speech, or the lack of free speech, also cover free artistic association? Does FAA then become unfree, as in unplayable, because of proscription? I am uneasy about outright bans. Proscribing Wass for Hungarian schoolkids is not a good idea, even if he was a fascist symp. Better to take something of worth by Wass and tie that to lessons about antisemitism. I realize that teaching antisemitism in Hungary is a major problem given the historical tyin, eg: Horthy, Arrow Cross, the Holocaust, etal. A half century ago, when I… Read more »
webber
Guest
exTor “Proscribing Wass for Hungarian schoolkids is not a good idea,” Wass was never taught before for many reasons (one below). Nobody is interested in banning his work, or removing it from libraries or anything similar. What people are objecting to is the compulsory teaching (now) of Wass’s work in all Hungarian schools. “Better to take something of worth by Wass and tie that to lessons about antisemitism.” That’s one of the problems. Show me something of worth by Wass! He was mediocre, at best. His work is unreadable, in my view. According to recent survey done of Hungarians who say they like Wass, of those who have actually read something by him (a LOT of his admirers haven’t) the majority admit he is a poor writer. Dostoyevsky was also an anti-Semite, but his work is fantastic. There is no question, in my mind, that his work should be taught in schools. Hungarian examples – nowhere near as good as Dostoyevsky, but not bad – would be József Nyirő (a fascist – Arrow-Cross Party member) and the poet István Sinka (a strong anti-Semite, and winner of the Hitler Prize in his time). Both wrote work worth reading now. For example,… Read more »
Guest
Bishop – “That was a bad egg?”; Curate – “Well it was good in parts, Most Reverend.” I agree mostly, Webber! For me it is József Nyírő who is the bellwether that shows how institutionalised fascism and racism are in the Hungarian psyche and culture. An admirer of Goebbels and member of the Arrow Cross party – its astonishing that he is part of the education curriculum. Is Hitler’s Mein Kampf part of the German curriculum? For me, like a red rag to a bull, Nyírő was a Roman Catholic priest, in the warm embrace of communism. Later he left the ‘profession’ – but was still a Roman Catholic. The institutionalisation of all that Nyírő represents was no better indicated than when László Kövér tried to interfere in the affairs of another country – Romania (denying Trianon) – when his cohorts were driving around with Nyírő’s bones in the car in an attempt to ‘repatriate’ them in a Romanian grave – having crudely exhumed them from Italy. Romania setup road blocks to search cars for bones or urns in an attempt to stop them. I bet they succeeded in the end in a sort of ‘secret conspiracy’ that they are… Read more »
ohoho
Guest

Lőrinc Szabo was a totally mainstream, respected poet taught even in elementary schools during communism and he was an ardent fascist too.

Guest

You hit the nail on the head, exTor!
And …
Yesterday I read a comment on pol.hu about Soros and Orbán wher one of the Nazis there used this expression “a pound of flesh” …
I’m wondering whether the readers understand it – I knew of course, though I didn’t read Shakespeare in school, growing up in the French Occupied Zone with Latin as my second foreign language …

David Peppiatt
Guest
When does understanding and explaining the Judaic tribal paradigm and its realisation through secular Jewish intellectualism become “anti-Semitism”? Are you saying that education on these matters is morally wrong? If, regardless, European-descended people become educated and find the effects of (basically) Jewish-authored political products such as classical Marxism, Freudianism, Critical Theory, international bolshevism, anti-racism, white privilege/white abolitionism, agitation for open borders, academic race-denial, etc, to be atomising and dissipating, do they become morally reprehensible for understanding the essentiality of a European atomisation and dissipation to the Jewish millenarian project? When is this knowledge immoral? Must Europeans be as perpetual children on this ancient question, and never have knowledge? And while you are considering that, here is another challenge to the lazy presumptions of the liberal mind. How is it that an African or Asian people which rejects its colonisation and demographic replacement on its own soil is engaged in a struggle for justice, but a European people which does so is somehow burdened with the novel Original Sin of “racism”? How can it ever be “racist” for any native people to defend its own life and life? Is not the right to struggle for life the only human right given… Read more »
webber
Guest

David Peppiatt
I haven’t read such a lot of BS in a long time – from start to end, a load of false premises.

webber
Guest

P.S. You forgot to include Christianity in your list Jewish products.

David Peppiatt
Guest

It is a long list, and I left off many elements in it.

Pauline Christianity is, of course, deeply Jewish in its general dispensation. The Christian surrenders his or her relation to tribe and kind for a relationship with “God” which, in turn, yields eternal life after death (but, of course, only with this god’s grace). The tribe of the Jews, meanwhile, get G_d’s gift of the world in life.

The function of a true religion, exoterically speaking, is to orient its faith community towards the esoteric … towards their own particular human presence and true nature which abides therewith. It does not individualise or self-estrange, or demand adherence to a morality of limitless sacrifice for or to the racial Other.

webber
Guest

“The function of a true religion, exoterically speaking, is to orient its faith community towards the esoteric … towards their own particular human presence and true nature which abides therewith. It does not individualise or self-estrange, or demand adherence to a morality of limitless sacrifice for or to the racial Other.”

Says you!
“tribe” (???!!)
“racial Other.”

Such a lot of nonsense.

David Peppiatt
Guest

webber:

“tribe” (???!!)
“racial Other.”

Such a lot of nonsense.

That you finds certain words too difficult to process without a pavlovian emotional reaction bespeaks not of freedom but of self-estrangement and the confusion of ethno-masochism with morality.

Ask yourself if you would expect a Sub-Saharan African to be frightened of those terms. If the honest answer is no, then why the hypocrisy when a normally ethnocentric Englishman such as myself uses them?

Also, can you please address the intellectual substance rather than make liberal hand signals?

David Peppiatt
Guest

Webber: P.S. You forgot to include Christianity in your list Jewish products.

Name one.

webber
Guest

Start with your unstated (but nevertheless obvious) assumption that there is some sort of Jewish conspiracy to undermine European culture. How does that work, incidentally? Do they get together in some sort of meeting every once in awhile, to coordinate the assault?
Or is it simply something they do, without noticing it?
If the second is the case, continue with your unstated belief that culture is essential and immutable, indeed perhaps in a sense genetic, and that the essential in European culture is under threat from foreign elements, notably
a Jew who is a Jew and always will be a Jew, regardless of his or her personal beliefs, feelings, ideas, etc.

David Peppiatt
Guest
webber: Start with your unstated (but nevertheless obvious) assumption that there is some sort of Jewish conspiracy to undermine European culture. Ethnic interests are not conspiracies. Don’t use magic words to shift the meaning of what is being said to some place where you can comfortably dehumanise the speaker. Jewish ethnic striving is historically grounded in at least four, and possibly five, major enslaving events. It is most distinct in kind and in expression. Try to investigate that impartially, if you can. Don’t merely assume that because someone raises the subject you have to run out of the room screaming. You do not. You, too, have a people to whom you are related other than culturally, and shared ethnic interests with them. “the essential in European culture is under threat from foreign elements …” European Man is suffering a vast and rapid colonisation and demographic replacement in all his living spaces in the West. It is not a mistake or an accident or a force of nature. It is politically engineered. The Western political class is serving a number of identifiable interest groups, and not the peoples of and from Europe. It is mete to dissent from any process which… Read more »
webber
Guest

Rare, indeed, is it for me to understand the thrust (Nay! The essence!), of another person’s world-view, but somehow I’ve got yours clearly (see my comment to exTor).

Is it my English blood that leads so quickly to comprehension? Is it the 1/8th of my soul that is Slavic? Or could it be the miniscule drop of Native American within that allows me to see the spirit animal?

Whatever it is, do go on! I would not silence your ravings for all the world!

500 million Europeans in mortal peril – tell us more.

But for those who do not share the vision, please speak more clearly – I suggest classic journalism:

Who did what to whom and when?
comment image

David Peppiatt
Guest
webber: tell me more Certainly. Will these ONS figures suffice? Percentage of white British in selected urban authorities in 2001 and 2011 Bedford 80.8% (2001) – > 71.5% (2011) Birmingham 65.6% (2001) – > 53.1% (2011) Blackburn 76.1% (2001) – > 66.5% (2011) Bristol 88.0% (2001) – > 77.9% (2011) Bradford 76.1% (2001) – > 63.9% (2011) Brighton 88.0% (2001) – > 80.5% (2011) Bournemouth 92.5% (2001) – > 83.8% (2011) Cardiff 88.3% (2001) – > 80.3% (2011) Cambridge 78.5% (2001) – > 66.0% (2011) Coventry 78.3% (2001) – > 66.6% (2011) Crawley 84.5% (2001) – > 72.1% (2011) Derby 84.4% (2001) – > 75.3% (2011) Gravesham 87.2% (2001) – > 77.1% (2011) Ipswich 90.8% (2001) – > 82.9% (2011) Kirklees 83.7% (2001) – > 76.7% (2011) Leeds 89.2% (2001) – > 81.1% (2011) Leicester 60.5% (2001) – > 45.1% (2011) Liverpool 91.8% (2001) – > 84.8 (2011) Luton 65.0% (2001) – > 44.6% (2011) Manchester 74.5% (2001) – > 59.3% (2011) Milton Keynes 86.8% (2001) – > 73.9% (2011) Newcastle 90.7% (2001) – > 81.9% (2011) Northampton 87.7% (2001) – > 76.6% (2011) Norwich 93.5% (2001) – > 84.7% (2011) Nottingham 81.1% (2001) – > 65.4% (2011) Oxford 76.8%… Read more »
Guest

This is a crude measure to support anything.

‘British’ in the UK can have many cultural backgrounds. These are just ‘white’ British.

Many second, third and fourth generations of Africans, Asians and others have become British.

This multicultural society is as multicultural as Hungarian society – you just don’t have the skin tones.

Now begone with your racism.

Member

There is a deep flaw with your arguments, you do not account for any previous migrations that have populated Europe to begin with. There has been so much mixing over 1000’s of years that there is very few who can actually say they are “white”, or of christian origin. Your numbers above are garbage. Also keep in mind that just because a person may “look” white, it doesn’t mean they are. Is it the fact that scientists have found that we all originated from Africa that makes people like you so desperate to prove how white you are by insisting that others are going to ruin it all for you? This is a fight that obviously couldn’t be won a thousand years ago, let alone now.

webber
Guest

Name one: Christ himself, his sacrifice for humanity, and going from that – arising from Christ’s Jewishness (in addition to Easter), almost all of European Christian culture and the meaning of its symbolism.
comment image

David Peppiatt
Guest

webber: “Christ himself, his sacrifice for humanity …”

You are giving a faith answer, not a reasoned answer. You must separate out mere belief from actual facts.

I do accept that this tendency towards faith-thinking is difficult to apprehend in oneself, and very difficult indeed to transcend. It is the reason, for example, that you presumed that my initial questions were founded on mere presumption rather than fact. I am challenging you with facts and with conclusions grounded in facts. Try to respond accordingly.

No faith presumptions please.

Incidentally, centuries of Christian intellectualism has observed the nationalism (tribalism) in Judaism, and takes offence accordingly, because Christianity is a universalising religion.

webber
Guest

Which facts? Where have you given any facts at all?
For instance, your definition of “true religion” is not a fact, it is your personal belief – and seems to me unique. I’ve never seen any similar definition of religion.

How is it, incidentally, that the influence only goes (in your narrative) one way? Jews (and others, I suppose) infect European culture with certain ideas, but Europeans don’t infect Jewish culture with their ideas?

David Peppiatt
Guest

I said everything that I write is grounded in facts. You question my definition of religious function. The grounding here is evolutionary, but it is a complicated ground to reach.

If, for some reason (let’s say the development of the intellect in hominids) there arises a state in which consciousness of self is subject to a natural depression, and this becomes the human default, we have to be able to explain how the evolutionary process still functions, and what function might be served by the surviving possibility of actual self-consciousness. That is just the starting point. I am not going to take through it all here. I would like you to question what you know, and venture out of faith thinking.

webber
Guest

Then let us have the facts!

Please state them clearly and in a simple fashion if you can – because they may be difficult to follow.

You noticed, rightly, that I did not get your definition of “true religion. That may be a fault within me, I admit, but the message should be delivered with the capacities of the audience in mind.

Member

I have not read one single fact from you, where are these “facts” you speak of? I see a lot of rubbish, but no facts. Could it be that you think you speak so intellectually that you have convinced yourself there are facts hidden in your drivel?

exTor
Guest

The leadoff sentence is essentially oxymoronic. I will leave it to others to determine whether I should skip the first-two syllables of ‘oxymoronic’.

The “understanding and explaining the Judaic tribal paradigm”, whatever that means, is neither antisemitic nor prosemitic. It just is, DP. [8:07 AM]

For the record, Arabs are Semites, Jews are Semites, lots of others are Semites. If you (or others) talk about racism directed at Jews, then the smart (meaning logical) way of spelling that concept is by lowercasing the ess in ‘Semite’. Thus: ‘antisemite’, ‘antisemitism’.

Furthermore, Mr. Peppiatt, the rules of English orthography mandate that all affixes [prefix, infix, suffix] be directly concatenated to the root. In other words, hyphenless. Therefore, it is ‘antisemitism’, not ‘anti-semitism’.

I am unimpressed by your blathered float of concepts unlinked to substance, David Peppiatt. If you want to impress us, then looze the pseudo and engage in real [read: understandable] discourse.

Still no idea what you’re on about.

MAGYARKOZÓ

webber
Guest

exTor (this time in an entirely cheerful tone) antisemitism, anti-semitism, and anti-Semitism are all accepted spellings, though there have been fierce arguments for and against one or the other – but let’s not get hung up on something minor such as that! We understand the word, however it is spelled. You say potahto, I say potayto, and all the rest…
What we (you and I) share here is amazement, but I believe I MAY have the key to understanding.

You see, we are in the presence of an almost unique thinker – one who embraces the entire Weltanschauung (apologies Wolfi) of racial spiritualism!

He (could it be a she?) believes not only that there are races, but that these races have essential spiritual qualities, and (unless I have him wrong) that the Jewish race has in some way infected the European race(s??) with ideas that have caused some trouble.

Guest

Where is Turanism in this debate, for goodness sake?

Many moons ago I asked for some help because we were told that Turanians have a dark olive skin, almond eyes and dark hair – by a self-confessed Turanian.

My theory was that Micheal Jackson was a Turanian – except I needed help with the Turanian nose?

Obviously this was going to be difficult with Michael – but I’m still wondering about the shape of a Turanian nose – and whether this could support my theory with MJ?

Maybe Peppiat can help?

Guest

I give up!

Can someone turn Peppiat’s switch off please?

David Peppiatt
Guest

Spiritualism no. You do not know me. I am an existentialist, a moral universalist, and a Darwinian, in all of which I find support for the natural right of all peoples of the land to strive for life on the land. There can be no exceptions to this.

David Peppiatt
Guest

Let us be clear that the act of waving something away, however high-handed, remains what it is: a desire to replace an honest response with the appearance of a response.

When you manage to make a proper response I will be pleased to address it. In the meantime, let’s not pretend that you are intellectually capable. The evidence is not there.

Reality Check
Guest

Anyone who makes such a statement “European Man is suffering a vast and rapid colonisation and demographic replacement in all his living spaces in the West. ” is certainly pretending to be intellectually capable.

David Peppiatt
Guest

Let’s see if you can explain why a fact, in this case that of European demographic replacement, is “intellectually pretentious”?

Could it be that you are a childish little liberal who desperately wants to reclaim your faux-moral and intellectual standing above the wretched “racist”? Could it be that you are, in fact, entirely empty? Shall we see?

OK, answer this: Do peoples of the land have the right in Nature to struggle for life on that land? Does, say, my people (the English people native to the land which bears their name) share this right? If not, why not?

Guest

The Disqus profile of Peppiatt says a lot about this creature!
A regular contributor on the extreme right wing site breitbart.com …
https://disqus.com/by/davidpeppiatt/
Or is this the pedophile guy of the same name that is wanted by the Australian police?

David Peppiatt
Guest

I take you creatures and your self-loathing to pieces wherever I find it. Note that nobody here has been able to make a substantive criticism of what I have written. That is only natural, since I am appealing for life.

Because your politics were post-Christian from the beginning, and retained the essential philosophical characteristics of Christianity, they have always contained the possibility of an obliterative action in respect to European peoples. Liberalism in it post-postmodern phase has become the struggle against the struggle for existence. It has emptied you out. To the appeal for life you have absolutely nothing to offer beyond deflection, deceit, and unearned lofty disdain. Do you?

Member

English people are not necessarily white, this is the problem. English is a language but it is not a race. Try again, as your supposed question about living off of the land someone occupies, does not have anything to do with what color they are, culture they practice and what religion they may believe in. As humans of the earth, we all have the right to the same things. You just want them to be separated by color, culture and religion. BTW, the English colonized India and many other countries non-white in origin, and they all spoke English as well, many became British citizens too. I am sure you are the guy that ASSUMES all colored people in the UK are “immigrants”.

exTor
Guest

I dont understand why bonafide participants of this forum even bother to engage with people like David Peppiatt, who manifested his dubiousness from the getgo. I didn’t bother to read most of the stuff that descended in his aftermath. When the comments count approaches the cee mark [100], then it’s a sign of something big. In this case, that ‘big’ isn’t good. My post will be #96 and a major portion of the posts concerns David Peppiatt. Part of the problem is that people bait him, so he responds. And so it goes. At some point the HS regulars must wise up and cut loozers loose.

MAGYARKOZÓ

petofi
Guest

The Merchant Of Venice–one of the least understood plays of Shakespeare, especially in the last 50 years or so. Its so-called anti-semitism reveals the inadequacy of those who teach it. In fact, Shylock is the key character of the play, as a few scholars have noted, because he gets all the best lines. That surely is a key of Shakespeare’s favour and what he intended, which was to ‘hold a mirror up to nature’: that is, to show the English how anti-semitic they really were. Marvelous Shakespeare was able to couch his bitter pill in a light-hearted, romantic tale that few but the serious thinkers really understood in his time. (And very few of Ontario school trustees in the modern era…)

Guest

Petofi?

Your erudition re Shakespeare glows still!

From the land of his birth – and it’s been part of the curriculum for yonks! – I salute you!

petofi
Guest

@CharlieH

re: Shakespeare

In actual fact, the life of Shakespeare–trying to make sense of it (the Stratford Man, of course, and no other) has been a hobby of mine for about 50 years. I’ve got a book in the works, and now need an agent…and then a publisher…

(If you thought that tidbit about The Merchant was something, I’d knock your socks off with what I’ve found out about his life…)

Guest

Re: the Bard’s great play..

The lines penned by him for Shylock:

‘I am a Jew. Hath not a Jew eyes? Hath not a Jew hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions? -fed with the same food , hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same summer and winter as a Christian is? If you prick us do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not laugh? If you poison us do we not die? And if you wrong us do we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that’. MOV

Shakespeare writing as if he is human , all too human of those who were tainted with villainy and untrustworthiness as they went about their work in his land. And giving the ‘insides’ of an ‘outsider’ in Elizabethan England. A great English psychologist and truth-teller of his times.

petofi
Guest

@ Rikard

Shakespeare was no ‘outsider’…but he certainly wasn’t the Earl of Oxford either.

Rikard
Guest

Re: ‘Shakespeare no ‘outsider”

Just to set the point on the use of ‘outsider’ I tried to make the connection that it was the Jewish population who were on the sidelines in English society. The speech Shakespeare gave Shylock shows his ‘connection’ to those outcasts intuitively understanding Shylock’s point of view. And he says it pretty powerfully.

exTor
Guest
No probs, webber. I know how people spell. I’m not offended by exchanges on subjects such as this. A lot of ‘accepted’ facts in orthography, grammar, etcetera are not as accepted as you may think. There are many prescriptivists out there –I count myself amongst them– who have differing ideas as to what should be. I have a writer friend in Toronto (whom I met at my kickboxing club back in the 1980s) whom I rag bigtime over his spelling. He’s kind of passive/aggressive in his resistance to my words of spelling ‘wisdom’. My spelling has evolved over the years to the point where I’d consider writing a book that would incorporate not just spelling, but smart grammar and writing creativity. It’s a dream for now, webber. Let me lay down some current consistencies. [#1] All affixes are joined to word roots without hyphens. [#2] Quotation marks are only used for quotations. [#3] Nuance or signify marks [eg: ‘smart’] are used to color or highlight words, as in titles, irony, etc. [#4] Frequently grouped words [eg: icecream, kickbox, girlfriend, liftoff, touchdown, gettogether, workaround] are considered single words. [#5] Grouped-concept words [eg: lady-in-waiting, defector-in-the-making] must be hyphenated. [#6] Compound modifiers, whether… Read more »
Guest

exTor: “My spelling has evolved over the years to the point where I’d consider writing a book that would incorporate not just spelling, but smart grammar and writing creativity. It’s a dream for now, webber.”

For Gods sake spare us on HS.

exTor
Guest

Dont sweat it, Jean P. It aint that bad.
You wont even notice it. {·grin·}

MAGYARKOZÓ

Guest

Please keep your linguistic hobby to yourself. We are not amused. It is severely OT. Please do not try to prove that you are right when you spell ain’t as aint.

exTor
Guest

Touchy. Touché.

MAGYARKOZÓ

exTor
Guest

This aint no biggie, Jean P.
This aint the biggie you make it be.

For the record, I responded to that highly dubious David Peppiatt. Thereafter, webber tangented a spelling thread. No probs there. I replied.

So it went until you showed up, Jean P.

You need to reread my position on spelling. You need know that I dont expect people to spell words like ‘aint’, ‘dont’, ‘cant’, etcetera as I spell them. It’s idiosyncratic. That means it’s personal, my thing, my way.

Frankie sang about his way.

The irony here is that it is you who inflated this topic, complaining that it’s “severely OT”. There’s your answer, Jean P.

“For Gods sake spare us on HS.”

For the record, further, I dont correct people’s spellings, which (given my own personal tastes) might be considered ironic. In other words, not on. The only person whom I did correct is David Peppiatt. It was my way of getting in a dig at a person whom I deem highly troublesome, Jean P.

MAGYARKOZÓ

webber
Guest

exTor

I prefer archaic spellings and styles – but I wouldn’t dream of forcing them on others.
My father writes and says “drouth.”
Some people spell jail “gaol.”
To me it will always be “The Ukraine,” never “Ukraine.”

Let’s just, each of us, keep his or her own style. We don’t have to agree. It’s enough that we understand one another .

Istvan
Guest
I agree with CharlieH. Since Tibor Navracsic is an EU commissioner for education, culture, youth, and sport it is relevant to discuss PM Orban’s comments yesterday on child hunger in Parliament. Dóra Dúró, a lawmaker for the Jobbik party, of all people asked the PM in parliamentary questions whether the government would support the submission to Parliament of a proposal aimed at eliminating child hunger. Orbán said that while “poverty is itself colourless, solutions do have different party colours”. He said Hungary was the only country in the European Union today where 90% of children received state-financed meals four times a day from the age of three. “This means these children cannot be hungry”, regardless of their parents’ financial situation, Orban said. Co-governing KDNP’s parliamentary group leader Péter Harrach, trying to explain why his party blocked the National Minimum civil plan to fight child hunger at Parliament‘s welfare committee said that they would have “ended up supporting a left-wing campaign”, had they voted for the motion. According to Network Against Poverty, a Hungarian NGO devoted to helping the poor, the Fidesz government is conducting a war against the fallen and those living in poverty. The government is looking for a… Read more »
Guest

Just remember Lázár’s motto:
If you have nothing, then you are nothing!

Spillie
Guest

OT:good article on 2 November in the Budapest Business Journal..Editorial:biggest problem on this side of the fence.

Guest

Spillie, is it available online?

Guest

Also rather OT but important – especially coming from OTP:

A really interesting article on Hungary’s labour market by analysts from OTP – Fidesz might be fuming at this but probably they’ll just ignore it and it won’t be published widely in Hungarian:
http://www.portfolio.hu/en/economy/situation_on_hungarian_labour_market_not_as_rosy_as_main_data_suggest_otp.30451.html
It starts ominously and gets even worse!
“The situation on the Hungarian labour market is far not as rosy as the headline numbers suggest, OTP analysts said. There are three factors that distort the picture:
(1) public works scheme,
(2) increasing number of people who work abroad, and
(3) statistical distortion due to sample rotation.”

It proves that the official numbers are really distorted …

Istvan
Guest
David Peppiatt
Guest
The anti-white racist CharlieH writes: ‘British’ in the UK can have many cultural backgrounds. These are just ‘white’ British. The true British are the native British peoples of the English, the Scots, and the Welsh. The rest are colonising us, and we are not morally obligated to accept that colonisation. No native people is. Many second, third and fourth generations of Africans, Asians and others have become British. They never become British, except through the possession of a piece of paper issued by the Home Office. They are colonisers, and the coloniser never becomes the colonised. This multicultural society is as multicultural as Hungarian society – you just don’t have the skin tones. Britain is not a multicultural society. Only the politicians say that. The native British do not say that. They are fleeing multiracialism because they hate it, and they are right to hate it for it is the gene-killing of their own kind. Now begone with your racism. Since you cannot explain how it is “racist” for the English to reject colonisation and race-replacement by Africans and Asians, how can you mouth that liberal piety? It is completely racist in its own terms, for you do not forbid… Read more »
Guest

I am ‘native’ British.

Do not claim to speak on my behalf.

We have a multicultural, pluralistic, multi-racial society here in England. Everyone is equal and, in the main, treated equally.

We are not a nation of English Scots Welsh – you missed out Irish. We are a land of Angles, Brythons, Romans, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Frisians, Danes, Normans, Picts and other groups from Africa, India – and the rest of the World.

I worked for many years with Marlon. A black British indigene.

He is as British as me.

Your notion of ‘gene-killing’ smacks of Aryanism. And offensive Majgar ‘purity’ and explains Hungarians attitude to 10% of the Hungarian population. Those with Hungarian Roma ancestry. Not to mention all those Hungarian Jews you murdered.

Begone (2) with your racism.

Why didn’t you address the multicultural point about Hungary’s make-up? As many cultures – and ethnicities as the UK?

There’s lots of ‘impurities’ in that 7-tribe lineage you know.

Can’t face the truth? Doesn’t fit with your racist ideology?

Go on give it a try.

Guest

Here’s a start:

Hungarians, Ruthenians, Romanians, German Szeklers, Slovakians, Italians, Bulgarians, Slovenians, Croatians, Italians.

In fact Hungarians were a minority in pre-Trianon Hungary.

webber
Guest

Don’t forget Huguenots! (Peppiatt is a French name).

Guest

Yea! Those……. Calvinists! (Zoltan Balogh?)

I think Peppiat’s flicked his switch!

Guest

I thought this info might help Peppiatt?

Percentage of white Central Europeans in selected Trianon areas in 1910 and 2011

Hungarians 100% (1910) – > 100% (2011)
Ruthenians 100% (1910) – > 100% (2011)
Romanians 100% (1910) – > 100% (2011)
Szeklers 100% (1910) – > 100% (2011)
Slovakians 100% (1910) – > 100% (2011)
Italians 100% (1910) – > 100% (2011)
Bulgarians 100% (1910) – > 100% (2011)
Slovenians 100% (1910) – > 100% (2011)
Croations 100% (1910) – > 100% (2011)
Italians 100% (1910) – > 100% (2011)
Huguenots 100% (1910) – > 100% (2011)

Discuss?

Guest

Oh Yes!

Those Croations come from Croatio!

Member

“Since you cannot explain how it is “racist” for the English to reject colonisation and race-replacement by Africans and Asians, how can you mouth that liberal piety?”
My goodness, your stupidity is unbelievable! First of all, maybe you should take this all up with the queen of colonization……THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND! Maybe if the English never decided they wanted to conquer the world, they would have never decided to rule over African nations, Caribbean nations, pacific Islands, India, etc. Then perhaps you wouldn’t have any people of color in England now. You people are so stuck on this BS, you don’t even think about what you are saying. Nor would it ever occur to you to pick up a damn textbook! No, but I am sure you spend countless hours on white supremacy websites getting “educated” on the matter.

Excuse me Eva, maybe it is really time to throw this asshole out! Please excuse my swear word.

David Peppiatt
Guest
webber writes: You noticed, rightly, that I did not get your definition of “true religion. That may be a fault within me, I admit, but the message should be delivered with the capacities of the audience in mind. I can lay out a couple of lines of enquiry which may cause you to think the matter through – quite possibly beyond my own musings! We should be able to explain faith in terms that are not religious themselves (that is, religious thinking provides its single answer – more god – in advance of considering any challenge to it, and that will not take us anywhere other than Evensong). Thus, can we presume that an instinct common to all human groupings (as far as we can tell) at all times in history is genetic in its arising? Can we find a reproductive fitness gain in it? Can we demonstrate that, at the genetic level, it reproduces itself, or has reproduced itself, more efficiently than genomes in which it is absent? This is all possible to establish, and leads to the next line of enquiry; namely, if/as faith has an arising which is absolutely not different to the arising of any other… Read more »
webber
Guest

Mr. Peppiatt,
What about the many Poles and Hungarians who have moved to Britain? What is your stance on them? Do they pose a threat to the “natives”?

Guest

Blimey!

Yes! Go back home! Keep us pure.

Bit of a shame though – I love pogatcha and Silesian sausages!

But damn it – we must stay pure.

Guest

Just when I had written a long winded reply to Charlie, I got an error message:
Error establishing database connection

So I’ll keep it short:
Silesia used to be Prussian – but who cares nowadays, it’s history.

petofi
Guest

@wolfi

“…who cares…”

Tell that to the Hungaricoes who are still crying into their ‘Trianon-y husleves’…

Guest

Exactly, petofi!
That’s the difference between us Germans and the “Greater Hungarians” – I had written something like that in the comment that was lost because of the database error.

I’ll try again:
My father was born near Danzig/Gdansk and came as a soldier to the Black Forest, where he met that nice Schwab girl that became his wife – and my mother. After the war he stayed there but went on a visit to his home town (and Poland generally) with my mother, one of my sisters and her English (!) husband.
When he came back he told everybody how beautiful the Poles had rebuilt the old town of Danzig and I did the same whenever I went to a tourism fair in Germany and got to the Polish representatives, making sure that the people around me heard it too …

Guest

me too – lost my entry.

Here are the details some1 – 19:52 locked out at least 15mins. Went for cup ‘o tea!

Wolfi! those Silesian sausages come from a Polish shop! As do those Cabasa ones (I think!)
thanks for the geography lesson though!

Guest

Silesia of course, like other parts of Prussia or Transsylvania etc had mixed inhabitants over the Centuries.

Guest

Re: “Capture your reader, let him not depart, from dull beginnings that refuse to start” Horace

Going back to ancient Rome on this one. Lots of advice there. As a much later contributor here to this fine blog and seeing the type of posts that come through I would have to think some posts should go into say some sort of ‘HS Hall of Fame’ say on obfuscated jumble or mouthfuls of mumbo- jumbo or something like that. I’m sure there’s plenty of good stuff on that.

I don’t know maybe those posters are writing for maybe new readers? I don’t think I’m ready though. For one who sometimes got ‘data poisoned’ going through tons of nums arguably it looks like we can get ‘prose-poisoned’ when it comes to the succession of words. Just an observation!

spectator
Guest

If the true intention regarding Nyírő’s work ever was to give the pupils insight another ‘kind’ of literature, it would have been introduced in much more mature age, when they’re already expected to be able to distinguish the irredentist crap and treat it on its place.

In my opinion the whole concept is part of the indoctrination process in which the coming generations getting trained into religious and nationalist servants, with affection toward soccer, pálinka and razor topped fences.

Hungary, for the “true Hungarians” in short.

Spillie
Guest

Re.Wolfi:your question:
You can find the article on the web:
http://www.BBJ.HU under “Opinion”. An editorial:”The real problems are on this side of the fence”
Hope you can find it.

Guest

Thanks Spillie!
I just had that databse error again after writing a comment – now I saved it:
Not too much OT an interview in English with Chessmaster Kasparov on Putin:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/garry-kasparov-interview-putin-needs-wars-a-1061942.html
What he says about Putin might also apply to Orbán:

“His aggression is like a drug. He has to keep upping the dose, which increases the risks for him. Dictatorships sometimes fall unexpectedly and quickly. And Putin knows that for him, the loss of power doesn’t mean a comfortable retirement, but something completely different.”

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