Do you want to buy Hungarian agricultural land? Pay up for a sham course

You may have noticed that I hardly ever touch on any subject related to agriculture. One reason is that I don’t know anything about it, but the other is more personal. In 1946 my father inherited some land and got it into his head that he wanted to be a gentleman farmer. The peasants in the village watched his endeavors with some skepticism because they were certain that you cannot learn anything about farming from books. As it turned out, they were not quite right. Some of my father’s experiments were actually quite successful.

The trouble was that he decided that I, being an only child who would inherit the farm, had to learn something about agriculture. (Mind you, a few years later Mátyás Rákosi upended my career as a farmer. The government took the land away.) So, every Sunday I received a little booklet with an enticing title like “How to Grow Corn” or “How to Grow Wheat.” By the end of the week I was tested on the material, which mostly went unread. During one summer I was taken for “practical training” where my performance was abysmal. Instead of looking after the hired hands, I fell asleep under the shadow of a haystack.

All that came to mind when I heard of the quickie course offered to would-be farmers. Now that approximately 380,000 hectares of state land will be auctioned off, many people want be “cultivators of the land.” But they can buy agricultural land only if they are bona fide farmers. And who is a bona fide farmer? Someone who has been in the business of farming for at least three years or who has completed a course consisting of 480 hours of instruction both theoretical and practical.

The course, costing approximately 250,000 forints, is offered by private companies–by now perhaps as many as a dozen. It is in high demand, with thousands of people ready to take it in the hope of being able to buy land and thereby receive the generous European Union agricultural subsidies. Businessmen, politicians, lawyers, and doctors, mostly from Budapest, are flocking to enroll so they can take part in the land auction that starts at the end of November. Graduates of the course, the new “gentlemen farmers,” are called “golden ear of wheat farmers” (aranykalászos gazdák).

Horror stories have surfaced about what’s going at these so-called educational companies. Even their websites make it pretty clear that attending lectures or engaging in practical training is unnecessary. The tests themselves are “flexible.” For example, one company advertises that “since it is already cold, the ‘student’ himself can structure the practical part of the exam.” Failing an exam is unknown.

An ad for one of the courses: "Last opportunity! Enroll now!"

An ad for one of the courses: “Last opportunity! Enroll now!”

After the first article appeared about this scam, which was discovered by vs.hu, opposition MPs inquired from the minister of agriculture, Sándor Fazekas, what he knows about these phony courses. As is this government’s wont, he refused to investigate. He told Zoltán Gőgös, MSZP’s agricultural expert, that if anyone has a suspicion of wrongdoing he/she should go to the police. So, HírTV decided to visit one of these companies with a hidden camera where a woman pretty well confirmed the charge that it was offering bogus pieces of paper that would allow a person to buy and cultivate land. On the basis of HírTV’s video, in no time István Tényi, a constant visitor to police stations, decided to launch a complaint.

Népszabadság collected a few priceless stories from these newly graduated “golden ear of wheat farmers.” According to one, “no living person has ever failed this course, perhaps not even a dead one.” Or “there were thirty of us in the group but not one of us knew anything about agriculture. We had a long discussion before the test whether ‘birka’ (sheep) and ‘juh’ (just a different word for sheep) are the same animal or whether they belong to different species.” This man spent a weekend becoming a farmer. That’s right, a 480-hour course in a weekend. “One day they took us around the farm and we saw pieces of agricultural equipment, but only from afar and not in motion.” It often happens that the answers are attached to the test questions. “The examiner told us that we will all pass because we have to acquit ourselves in real life and not at a test.”

Once someone completes this course, for his time and money he receives a so-called T-license (T as in tractor) that allows him to drive a tractor. Yes, in Hungary you need a licence to drive a tractor on your farm. Looking into the situation in the United States, I found the following. Rick Perry, governor of Texas, while running for the presidency of the United States in 2011 said the following at one of his election stump speeches in Iowa: “Now you tell me whether this is true or not. But one of my fellas just told me, he said that they’re talking about a new regulation that if you drive your tractor … across one public road, you’re going to have to have a commercial driver’s licence. Get out of here! You’re kiddin’ me. I mean, what are they thinking?”

It’s bad enough that in Hungary you need a T-license to drive a tractor. If you have an ordinary riding mower you need a K-license (K as kert/garden). I could say along with Rick Perry: “Get out of here!” A license just to mow your lawn? Unreal.

But it’s even more unreal that if you’re not already a farmer  you have to complete a phony agriculture course in order to purchase a piece of land larger than one hectare.

By contrast, let’s say that you want to buy agricultural land in the United Kingdom. According to The Financial Times it’s a great investment. No proof of your agricultural expertise and no license to drive your tractor is necessary. Because the government regulation clearly says that “if you pass a regular car driving test (category B) you’ll get entitlement to drive agricultural tractors and mowing machines.” As it should be in a normal country. If you go to the list of Hungarian driver’s licenses, you will find that both the T and the K license fall into the “national category.” I would call it “national absurdity.” Not just the licenses. The whole thing.

Sort by:   newest | oldest | most voted
exTor
Guest

OmahaRisinG, a poet friend in Toronto, coined the terms ‘eudysic’ and ‘eudysia’ to describe the post9/11 era. The terms are oxymorons and they, according to Omaha, describe a time where there is much good [‘eu’], such as with the advancement of technology, and much bad [‘dys’], as with the threat of pandemics and global warming.

To Omaha, 9/11 marks this new era’s beginning. Postmodern is so last-century. I’ve got to agree. His demarcation means that history now is either pre9/11 or post9/11.

Now, with the news out of Paris, there seems to be more ‘dys’ than ‘eu’ in ‘eudysia’. The oxymoron has become more moronic.

This latest incident of terrorism could severely impinge upon the situation faced by the refugees, who will be viewed as Europe’s next terrorists. This tragedy very clearly plays into Orbán’s hands.

I have a feeling that this is a local [French] reaction/retaliation to the reported death of Jihadi John by drone strike in Syria.

We live in eudysic times. Truly demonic.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Guest

Re: ‘I have a feeling that this is a local [French] reaction/retaliation to the reported death of Jihadi John by drone strike in Syria.

We live in eudysic times. Truly demonic’

With the extremely ‘reverent’ Islamist ‘JJ’ gone an example of one of humanity’s aberrations has been eliminated. It’s too bad there cannot be a ‘one shot one kill’ event to eradicate the entire Islamic extremist threat. If only.

As the events of terrorism and countries having dalliances with theocracy, no democracy or illiberal democracy move on in our post-modern world I can only side with Golding in his contemplation of the workings of civilization and societies, Lord of the Flies, where in his view…’The world, that understandable and lawful world, was slipping away’. Can it be anyone’s game now? Hope the West is on its game now. If not there will be hell to pay.

Guest

Surely this is just another wheeze, invented by Orbán and Co., for amassing ever more moneys from the EU?

The new land owners have most likely already been earmarked and are friends, family and loyal followers of our illustrious “leader”. Since stealing from the EU is the main goal of Fidesz, any agricultural expertise is unnecessary, thence the bogus “training courses”

The cynicysm of this government is truly shocking and filters down to even such harmless activities as yoga classes.
In district III, using EU money and EU notions of governments and civic societies, the local authority advertised free yoga classes in a local public venue.

Neither the place, nor the yoga instructor actually materialised, but no doubt the government managed to use the funds which had been allocated by the EU, for these local free yoga classes.

The list of the misuse of EU funds by Orbán and the Fidesz mafia is miles long by now. Éva, surely the EU is aware of this latest agricultural scam. So why, in your opinion, do they keep sending funds for bogus projects, when the moneys go straight into Orbán pockets.

bimbi
Guest

In the Guardian recently a comment saying that “Orban was as crazy as he is corrupt” was censored and removed because it “did not conform with community standards”. The Brits just cannot believe how persistent, how petty and how venal the Orban/Fidesz/KDNP/Catholic corruption in Hungary is. You start by stealing pensions and after 5 1/2 years you finish up here (and you’d better believe it, there is more to come).

Orban – as crazy as he is corrupt.

spectator
Guest

“Orban – as crazy as he is corrupt.”

Oh no, or at least not along the lines you described – but the Hungarian people are, who let these criminals rule and rob them.

Orbán just doing what usually the orbáns of the world used to do, alas some called Mugabe or Aliyev, previously even Saddam or Ceaușescu…

webber
Guest

Most of these idiotic regulations pre-date Fidesz. There seems to be a propensity for over-regulation in Hungary, where you have to know how an internal combustion engine works to pass your driving test. Why? I have no idea. The knowledge has nothing to do with driving skills. It’s like insisting kids should know how to fix a bike before being allowed to ride one.

In most American states you need no license whatsoever to drive a tractor (much less a lawn mower). I quote one such regulation: “A person without a license or driver permit may temporarily operate, draw, move or propel a farm tractor or implement of husbandry.”

Kids are allowed to drive tractors in most American states, and many other countries (incl. China)

Another bit of the regulation:
“A person without a license or driver permit may operate a road roller or road machinery that is not required to be registered under the laws of this state.”

http://obscurity.typepad.com/.a/6a01156e735f12970c014e87ffdbee970d-800wi

Guest

Actually I think it’s not a bad thing to have a kind of licence for tractors etc – this has been the case in Germany and now probably in the whole EU. It just means answering a few questions re traffic rules …
So kids can get it at 15 years (or even 14 years?).

Re the Paris attacks:

It is a kind of tragedy, sure, but:

More people are killed when a commercial airliner goes up in flames – which has happened already several times this year – remember the German suicide pilot?

And in the Near East also every week at least as many people are killed – remember that hospital bombed by the USA?

But of course some people/politicians will use that for their own nefarious goals …

webber
Guest

wolfi –
I disagree. People ride bikes in traffic without any sort of license.
Anyway, most tractors aren’t driven on roads – they are just used on farms.

Bowen
Guest

@ Wolfi. I get what you are saying. There was a similar attack in Beirut just a few days ago, which has generated much less attention (here in Europe, at least).

But this atrocity in Paris (and the Russian airliner over Sinai) now shows the reach, effectiveness and ambition of ISIS. And that’s very scary indeed.

I’m sure people like Orban will be using this as fuel for the further spreading of fear and hatred (which is what ISIS wants, of course).

petofi
Guest

@ Bowen

What’s ‘very scary’…is that the Moslim religious and political leadership has been given a pass for so long rather than held responsible for the crimes committed by their people.

Bowen
Guest

@Petofi: Inciting hatred (or even just suspicion) against Muslims is exactly what the terrorists want.

petofi
Guest

Bowen,

Has there been one Moslem leader who has come out against the terrorists and stated that they have no place in Moslem society? (Actually, I know of one: the Egyptian president, Abdel Fattah el-Sisi. But that’s recent, and he
alone has spoken out. Where are the rest?)

webber
Guest

Petofi, there’s enough trouble. There’s no need for you to repeat that sort of hackneyed nonsense:
“A very common, oft-repeated mantra among pundits and “experts” is that Muslims haven’t roundly condemned the extremism committed in Islam’s name.”
I won’t cut and paste the list of Muslim leaders who have made statements you say have never been made. You can find the list for yourself here:
http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/commonwordcommonlord/2014/08/think-muslims-havent-condemned-isis-think-again.html

petofi
Guest

Webber,

Now you’re lumping ISIS with all Moslem terrorists. ISIS, for your information, is fairly recent. It is ISIS terrorists–who have turned on some of their own–who have been condemned. Or didn’t you catch on to that difference?

Guest

The pretense of learning agriculture over night is just another addition to the edifice of pretenses that Fidesz is buildng in order to veil crime. The structure grows taller day by day and flying buttresses will soon be needed.

tappanch
Guest

Syrian passport was found at the body of one of the 8 dead terrorists in Paris.

My guess is that all of them arrived with the Merkel wave of migrants/refugees, who crossed numerous borders with no or fake identity papers.

petofi
Guest

Tappanch,

That’s a tad lame–and the weapons? Did they hoard them in their backpacks? No, terrorists prefer to fly and then spend their remaining time before causing murder and mayhem with whores and porn mags.

tappanch
Guest

I heard a few days ago that it is possible to obtain a Kalashnikov for 40 (!) euros in France, when purchased in bulk.

(writing from southern France)

tappanch
Guest

Le Monde.fr | 01.11.2015

“La mosquée de Lunel (Hérault) a un nouveau président. Après des mois de vives tensions avec un groupe de jeunes radicalisés, l’équipe dirigeante de l’Union des musulmans de Lunel − association gestionnaire de la mosquée de cette ville de 26 000 habitants − avait été contrainte de démissionner. Les hostilités avaient été attisées par le départ d’une vingtaine de jeunes Lunellois pour le djihad en Syrie, où au moins huit d’entre eux ont été tués.”

http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2015/11/01/la-mosquee-de-lunel-a-elu-son-nouveau-president-apres-des-mois-de-tensions_4801042_3224.html

Member

What is the point here? Le monde states that the jihadists went toSyria, not from…

webber
Guest

IF it’s true that you can get a working kalashnikov for 40 euros (why do you believe this stuff? In which bar did you hear this story?), the French police should be ashamed of themselves.
But I strongly doubt it. Why would French arms dealers risk arrest for such a pittance?
I don’t know what the street price is, but just a glance online suggests it’s closer to 1,000 Euros.

tappanch
Guest

You are right, the official price is 600 euros, but it is possible to import the Kalashnikovs from Eastern Europe (like Slovakia). The 40 euro price is the bulk price.

http://www.armurerie-auxerre.com/ak-47-works-zs-kalashnikov-calibre-7-62×39.html

http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2013/12/20/97001-20131220FILWWW00451-un-revendeur-de-kalashnikov-mis-en-examen.php

webber
Guest

“official price”?? That phrase is nonsense. We’re talking about the black market here.
The price is whatever the seller can get from the buyer.
I’d bet you 1,000 Euros that the price is more than 1,000 Euros.
If you are confident about the price being 600 euros on the black market in France, you could make 400 Euros very easily by going out and buying a kalashnikov, proving to me that it cost you just 600, and collecting 1,000 from me.
I would further bet that you cannot possibly get a kalashnikov in ANY country in E. Europe (certainly not in Slovakia -the country is not so poor) for 40 Euros.

tappanch
Guest

You are right, the adjective “official” was stupid on my part, but you can see from my link that the running, off-the-shelf price is 620 euros, “Arme originale issue des arsenaux ex-soviétiques.”

Da’esh obtained more than a billion dollars in cash from the vaults of the Iraqi National Bank in Mosul, they also obtained billlions from Turkey in exchange for oil, so they have no difficulty paying even a thousand euros for a Kalashnikov in Europe.

webber
Guest

Sure, OFF the shelf price, meaning the price if you are a government or in some way legally allowed to purchase kalashnikovs in good working order.

I am certain the price on the black market in France is much, much higher than this.

spectator
Guest

Would be time to introduce a licence to the Kalashnikovs as well, right alongside the lan movers – another household machinery nowadays…
Or so it seems

spectator
Guest
Tappanch, they didn’t need to walk a few thousand miles for this! Just think about it, they were equipped with guns and explosives, some of them even managed to get away by means of transportation available – it isn’t a spur of the moment usual jihadist crap. It was an organized attack, some of them – I believe – performed by professional mercenaries/hitman, so its highly unlikely that they arrived recently to Europe. Let alone, just what kind of terrorist who goes to action with his passport on him? This is in the best case a red herring, part of the plot to avert the authorities. And since the ISIS claimed responsibility, and since they aren’t in any way short of funds for their operation, I hardly think that they will send their selected people on foot, when they can enter to the EU much easier by plane or car. Who ever would stop a few respectable looking businessmen or a few students who arriving – say – to Budapest from Cyprus or Istanbul on a regular flight? On the next day they can be in Paris, no sweat and no danger involved. Authorities in Hungary concentrate mostly to catch… Read more »
Istvan
Guest
The West collectively unfortunately must learn or let us say relearn in light of the attack in Paris last night: A legjobb védekezés a támadás. Since President Hollande has declared the attacks by Islamic State an act of War against France he should swiftly launch a full scale assault on Raqqa, the self-proclaimed capital of the Islamic State. Once you open the gates of hell you do have to walk through those gates. As the Bible says at Psalm 74:8 “Let us oppress them relentlessly.” A full scale combined air and land assault in support of the Kurdish forces needs to be rapidly committed to by France, with the full support of Germany, the U.K., USA, and Russia. IS must be exterminated and yes many innocent Syrians trapped in Raqqa will be killed. I think once President Bush made a statement similar to the one President Hollande made after 9/11 he followed through, his error or really the error of his advisors was attempting to occupy Afghanistan and then Iraq which had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. Orban can put his precious TEK to good use by committing them to the House combat that would be required to… Read more »
webber
Guest

Crushing ISIS is a good idea. It’s such a good one that French have been working on it through air attacks for some time now. Did you not know? According to reports I’ve read, France forces are already doing more than the US military – and this is precisely why Paris was targeted.

So slow down, please, with advice to the French. Keep that for home!

Anyway, your good advice won’t do a darned thing about the following:

“Islamic State also released an undated video on Saturday calling on Muslims to continue attacking France. Its foreign media arm, Al-Hayat Media Centre, filmed a number of militants – apparently French citizens – sitting cross-legged in an unidentified location and burning their passports.”

petofi
Guest

re: the French against ISIS

The French are certainly doing more than the Brits, who haven’t had a ballsy prime minister since Tony Blair. He had the nerve to back the yanks when they needed it. (Of course, he got hung up on a red herring: the so-called ‘missing weapons of mass destruction’. No one has yet mentioned that those weapons may well have been removed by the Chinese or the Russians just prior to the American invasion…)

webber
Guest

or, in other words, the weapons actually weren’t there when Blair claimed they were, and Blair actually had intelligence that there was no evidence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq at the time. This has been admitted by the British government and Blair himself.
Was Saddam Hussein’s Iraq a den of terrorists before the invasion? I believe the consensus among experts gives a resounding “no” to that question.
Is Iraq now a source of terrorists, and is part of Iraq under ISIS control? ermm, yes…

I speak as someone who supported the invasion of Iraq under GW Bush, jr. I believe I was wrong.

Bowen
Guest

@Tappanch: Libération is reporting that three passports of the attackers have been found so far: French, Egyptian and Syrian. At least one of the attackers is reported as being white.

Member

Orban’s Mock Mourning

http://hungarianfreepress.com/2015/11/14/hungary-declares-day-of-mourning-following-paris-terror-attacks/

Opportunistic, predictable and shameless crocodile tears as Orban capitalizes on his luck and others’ misery.

Obama’s — and even Cameron’s — words and gestures are far more credible and sincere than Orban’s peacock Pavane of Schadenfreude.

Szégyen.

Bowen
Guest

Poland have declared the following:
“The European council’s decisions, which we criticised, on the relocation of refugees and immigrants to all EU countries are part of European law. After the tragic events of Paris we do not see the political possibility of respecting them.”

spectator
Guest

Just how stupid anybody can get?
Or it was the golden opportunity to join to the orbanist idiocy without actually admitting it?

God save us from these fundamentalist morons!
Even if that particular God is called Jahveh, Manitou, Allah or whatever – about time to interfere, in the name of sanity, if nothing else!

Istvan
Guest
Air assaults alone will not exterminate IS in Raqqa it is necessary to take the capital of IS along with the Kurds. A ground assult is required to send the appropriate message to IS in relationship to their open attempt to exterminate French citizens. Sometimes extreme measures are required this is one of them. I will give France no credit when it has allowed its military budget to decline to the degree it has. For that matter Germany has been only a little better. To Eva the Austrians are giving the Solvenians a chance to bring order to the border, the framework for the fence as of yesterday was still being built. All they need to do is put the barbed wire in place assuming the level of order the Austrians want is not established, what the benchmark for that is I have not been able to decipher. Yes indeed the Austrians were hypocritical in relation to their comments of the Hungarian fences, it’s clear that they are prepared to do the same as Orban did. In the case of Austria and now a number of other nations they are not linking rational border controls with racist hysteria at the… Read more »
webber
Guest

Istvan, you wrote:
“Air assaults alone will not exterminate IS in Raqqa…”
Probably right!
Please tell that to the Pentagon, repeatedly.
Have you, incidentally, looked at the difference in size of the US and French economies?
Have you considered the difference in military capacities?
After you talk to the Pentagon, call your congressmen.
But please restrict your comments to “the French” at this moment to expressions of sympathy. They are contributing more to the war on Isis than any other of America’s Western allies. Your criticism of them is out of place and in bad taste.

petofi
Guest

terrorist passports

It is somewhat ridiculous to think that terrorists would make the police’s job so easy as to provide their passports in attacks where they will most likelly be killed. I suggest that the passports are fakes.

tappanch
Guest

Yesterday was the first day of the second month of the Islamic calendar. Why is it important?

“when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush.”

So we can expect 5 months of terror now, them 1 month respite, then 3 months of terror again.

Source:
Penultimate (chronologically) surah of the Quran.
http://www.noblequran.com/translation/surah9.html

tappanch
Guest

Religiously mandated terror-free period in 2016:

from April 8 through May 7,
from August 4 through October 31

To state this in another way:

Terror is permitted
between November 13, 2015 through April 7, 2016
between May 8, 2016 through August 3, 2016

and from November 1, 2016.

webber
Guest

For Istvan and just for Istvan, who thinks France isn’t doing enough in the war on ISIS:

“France takes pride in its proactive stance against Islamists worldwide, especially in the face of what is frequently seen as British and American retreat. Over 10,000 French troops are currently deployed abroad – over 3,000 in Western Africa, 2,000 in Central, and 3,200 in Iraq.

French intervention in Mali, against al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, in 2013 was seen as pivotal in the weakening of the jihadi group. A fortnight ago a leader of an AQIM affiliate urged his followers to attack France in retaliation for their presence in the region.
And last week President Francois Hollande announced that France will deploy an aircraft carrier in the Persian Gulf to assist the fight against the Islamic State in Iraq the Levant (Isil), setting him on a collision course with the Islamist leaders.”

Vive la République et vive la France!

Note – the quote above is taken from an impeccably right-wing daily, which has no ideological reason to praise Hollande. You can read the whole article here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11995505/Paris-attacks-Why-has-France-been-targeted-again.html

Istvan
Guest
Webber members of the US military are prohibited from publicly expressing military policies that contradict those of the Commander in Chief. If one reads discussions among retired officers and security personnel you will find there is wide support for such a combined arms assault on Raqqa. But combat officers that carried out such actions in Iraq, specifically in Fallujah warn of high causalities as happened in Operation Vigilant Resolve and Operation Phantom Fury. The west must be prepared to pay this horrible price, but the price the jihadists would pay would be far higher. US Senator Cotton has reflected those opinions in the Congress (see for example https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2015/11/01/boots-on-the-ground-in-syria-has-lawmakers-calling-for-a-new-aumf/ ) There is also no illusion that this would be the end game for IS, but since the physical establishment of the Caliphate is ideologically so important to these jihadists it would be a significant blow to them. I would also argue that Trump who simply advocates carpet bombing Raqqa out of existence doesn’t get it either. IS will just ideologically feed on that as an another example of western cowardly behavior, their militants need to be rooted out door to door and if they won’t surrender then they will be killed.… Read more »
petofi
Guest

Immigration

There has been little criticism of one of the chief culprits of emigration worldwide–big business and its need for cheap, un-unionized, labour. And, in countries such as France and the US, cheap labour is an undermining force of the labour unions.

webber
Guest

I couldn’t agree with you more!
Eastern Europeans are undercutting the market for Western European workers.
Mexicans are undercutting wages for Americans.
And so it goes.
Instead of raising the wages of Mexicans and Eastern Europeans in their home countries, the effect is to lower wages in the West and thereby also keep wages depressed in the East and Mexico (productivity there being lower, as a sort of constant over a very long time).

tappanch
Guest

CNN: the [fake or genuine] Syrian passport found at the dead terrorist was processed on a Greek island

tappanch
Guest

“”The holder of the passport passed through the island of Leros on Oct. 3, 2015, where he was identified according to EU rules,” Greece’s deputy minister in charge of police, Nikos Toskas, said in a statement.”

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/14/us-france-shooting-greece-idUSKCN0T312W20151114

spectator
Guest
In my opinion the problem of terrorism can’t be solved by force alone, whatever powers may join to do so. As long as the core issue – the reason of why – won’t be addressed and solution found, there is no way to permanently stop this kind of – or any kind, really – attacks. Not now, not in the future. Unless, of course, if we are all willing to live it totally controlled “police states” ourselves, for the sake of our own security. Even then could one or another nutcase decide on any given day that he/she will make a statement for- or against something or other. Otherwise the statement/prophecy of Pope Francis may turn out to be correct : this attack was/is already part of WW3! The “Third World War”, people! (Helping out the generally slower minds and Fidesz/Jobbik supporters here.) There would be no winners this time, I hope its clear to everyone else, unless you call the war in Afghanistan or Iraq successful. And I didn’t mean who killed more than the other, I mean just how ‘successful’ those countries became as the result. Let alone, the people of those countries still pouring out and “going… Read more »
tappanch
Guest

Terrorism in general does not exist, the current world terrorism is ISLAMIC terrorism.
Contrary to the statements of the leading Western politicians, it is NOT a deviation from the tenets of Islam.

The only way to counter the Islamic terrorist movements ideologically is to give them Islamic theological arguments against terror. Well, this is not easy, regarding their one chapter of one book system of axioms, i.e. sura 9.

Gopal
Guest
@tappanch You have no idea what you’re talking about. What your arguing is an extremely simplistic, un-sophisticated argument worthy of Orban. The ISIS terrorists seem to (I’m also guessing, but I agree with Éva) take revenge for France’s bombing of Syria. Why France had to participate in the bombing in the first pace and what was France’s goal, we don’t know – other than for Hollande to look tough and statesmanlike. In any case, the Paris massacre seems to me an act of war, some people were attacked in Syria and they counter attacked by some other means (even Hollande used the term war), what does this have to do with Islam per se? Was it a Christian thing to bomb Syria or Iraq (by the US and UK earlier)? Nobody ever committed these acts is Switzerland, which is neutral. For some reason it’s always the great powers which are targeted which also happen to take part in bombings all over the world. In places like Nigera, the terror is actually about money. The Islamic North was promised a part of the oil money and the Christian South took much more than its fair share (under historic political pacts). In… Read more »
petofi
Guest

@ Gopal

“…when in the middle East there is over-population, lack of jobs for young people, environmental degradation…”

Precisely. Now try and square this with the fact that Islamists wildly promote the maximum (whatever number that might be) of childbirths around the globe, especially in western/African countries. (There has been a recent report that Moslem man in Britain often have 3 wives and father 20 children or more per man.)

One of the greatest dangers to the planet is over-population, with the host of problems it engenders. Have you seen any attempts to control Moslem birthrate a la the Chinese?

So you see, when Tappanch talks about ‘Islamist wars’ –33 of 37 wars around the globe have Islamists on one side–I think he has good reason for it…

dingo
Guest

re the Muslim men with many wives and children.

The problem is that many poor men simply can’t afford to have any wife at all (as the richer men have more) and can’t even “import” a wife either (as due to the male child preference there is a huge lack of women in India, China etc.).

Now that’s an issue when say the bottom 10-15% of men can’t hope to have access to women.

tappanch
Guest

@Gopal
“You have no idea what you’re talking about. What your arguing is an extremely simplistic, un-sophisticated argument worthy of Orban.”

Please, do not offend me by comparing me with Orban.

The arguments of Islamists are simplistic, because they feel they are directed to do everything in their life according to a single book.

I read their internal theological debate in English. The good news is that they are undecided whether to enslave captured Christian women according to the Quran and Hadiths. But Yazidi women are to be made sex slaves if they are young and killed if they are old – Allah so mandated.

Guest

“because they feel they are directed to do everything in their life according to a single book”
Are you talking about some Jews or Christians?

Gopal
Guest
Please try to be a bit deeper and sophisticated. Maybe for example, not all Germans or Hungarians were born hopeless Nazis but the suffering during the Great Depression, the humiliation after WWI, the difficulties of coming to terms with modernity etc. made people to become collectively evil. Even though many Germans were indeed debating the technicalities of how to best exterminate Jews the deeper reasons of those events (let’s say between 1933 and 1945) are a bit more complex than say a crazy leader wanted to conquer the world and successfully seduced all Germans who then believed the arguments in Mein Kampf. Maybe the ruling ideology is only the consequence, and not the reason. There is no unified “the Islam”. The Koran is being interpreted in a thousand ways, it’s interpreted by some crazy ISIS people in this case in a crazy way. Why do you think this is the representative interpretation? I offer a very simplistic argument for the rise of ISIS in the region, but this is just an idea, I could be wrong. Iraq is clearly falling apart, Iraq and Syria (as well as Libia and Yemen) are failed states. Period. The oil rich regions of Iraq… Read more »
tappanch
Guest

@Gopal & RealityCheck

In the past, most Muslims were illiterate, so could not read the Quran. For them, religion simply meant a set of customs.

(Un)fortunately, more and more can read, and are indoctrinated or are alienated. The alienated cannot openly say so, since they have to be killed for this “apostasy” by the devote Muslims.

tappanch
Guest

Yes, there are ambiguities in the TEXT, Muslims kill each other for them too, because of the various interpretations.

But it was uttered by a single man within a few years. It was edited only once, after his death. The Bible was written and rewritten for at least 1000 years.

The enemy is not only Da’esh, Nusra, Qaida, the Iranian Ayatollahs or the hundreds of other groups, but the TEXT itself.

Lajos
Guest

For the most narrow minded, clueless stupidity about Europe vs. Islam (?) please refer to Gellért Rajcsányi at Mandiner:

http://mandiner.hu/cikk/20151114_rajcsanyi_gellert_mi_es_ti_uzenet_a_szabad_vilagbol_annak_ellensegeihez

Reality Check
Guest

Something just doesn’t seem right with your statement.

If this violence is a tenet of Islam, then why out of the 1.6 billion muslims on this plant only 41,000 have taken up arms with ISIS? If this is such an important tenet in the lives of Muslims, why are so few involved in terror?

And why is it that there are muslim defense forces and militias fighting against these “holy” warriors? Is their fight against Isis a misinterpretation of Islamic tenets?

Why is it that Islamic political and religious leaders around the world have condemned these attacks?

In the US: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/us-muslim-coalition-to-respond-to-paris-terror-attacks-300178840.html and http://www.cair.com/press-center/press-releases/13236-cair-condemns-paris-terror-attacks.html

Seems to be a lot of confused Muslims in the world, who do not share your “correct” view of their religion. Funny that!

This “violence is the way of Islam” idea is really a simple and lazy understanding of a diverse group of 1.6 billion people.

Reality Check
Guest
tappanch
Guest

In the small southern French town where I am staying, I did not experience any national mourning today.

Restaurants and cinemas are open, Arabs (with a huge Tunisian flag) conducted a celebratory car procession with lots of honking [let us hope this was for a wedding].

Member

Orbán Orra

Orban’s unerring instinct for connecting with people’s inner-bigot — certainly not a sign of intelligence, just of lack of scruple, and a keen nose for the foulest in his compatriots (and their global counterparts).
comment image

Member
I appreciate the authors honesty by saying he knows little about agriculture in Hungary, even as an American of Hungarian ancestry. As for myself, as an American of Hungarian residency I wish to point out a few reality checks about agriculture in Hungary. First of all, the courses for driving a tractor in Hungary are for industrial and business settings. That is, if a farmer (a business) or a village care taker, in their job description, is required to drive a tractor or a ride on lawn mower, then yes they are expected to have a certificate and show training in the use of such motor driven tools. Because that is in their professional or job description. And as a side note, many plots of land in Hungary are small, and require the tractor to move along a road for access. And if one has ever driven a tractor, one knows they are not exactly like a car — and laws differ on this matter from country to country, such as driving a truck in the USA requires a different license for similar reasons. And also, just like OSA requirements in the US require a “fork lift” certificate to operate… Read more »
webber
Guest
stcoemgen. Is there a law, anywhere, requiring a person to get a license to drive a horse and wagon out onto the road? As far as I know, there is not. People would laugh if there were. Is there a law in Hungary requiring people to get a license to ride a bicycle on the street? Of course there isn’t. People would laugh if there were. Hungary’s law on tractors is idiotic, and hilarious. As to the US, each state has its own law. Each state has some stupid laws. Above I quoted one state’s law which specifically says that no license whatsoever is needed to operate a tractor, or road building machinery. In that state, the law regulating driving tractors is not stupid (there is a stupid regulation there on drinking alcohol in public). That state’s economy is traditionally based on agriculture and forestry (road building is important in forestry). Hence the regulation. Similar regulations on tractors – no license required – are in place in most highly agricultural states in the US. In no state I know of is there a law regulating who can use a riding lawnmower. Are there more accidents with tractors per capita in… Read more »
webber
Guest

While Fidesz is at it – eliminating the need to know how a car works on Hungarian driving tests would be a good idea. It’s useless knowledge.
Many new cars don’t operate as the textbooks say anyway. The theoretical knowledge of how to fix an internal combustion engine is useless with an electric car, and most of a hybrid.
And let’s be honest – when a car breaks down, most of us call a qualified mechanic.

Also, how about getting rid of the “nyelvtan” (grammar) bit on language exams in Hungary? I’ve met a LOT of Hungarians who can tell me what tense a verb is in (who cares?), but can’t communicate clearly in English.

Member
First of all, motor vehicle laws are for… well vehicles with motors. Bringing up horse and buggies is thus pedantic. Which was basically my point. There are plenty of issues with the land law in Hungary worthy of just and proper criticism. But becoming pedantic does disservice to these issues. You may think tractor regulations are stupid. Fine. But there is a “tradition” in Hungary for certificates required to do the most mundane and routine tasks (so called OJK courses). Want to use a chain saw? Yes, you need a certificate. Want to run a retail store in Hungary? You need to first take a course. All unheard of in the USA. Many companies offer these required course in Hungary. Many are diploma mills. It is Hungary. These diploma companies also lobby to maintain and keep the laws that require these OJK courses. That is how it is here. For example: http://www.szakkepesites.hu/ or http://okj-szerelo.lap.hu/ Hungarian agricultural law is of course full of stupidities. I can give you a list of those I have had to deal with, and those I am still dealing with. But some are also EU level sourced stupidity, so one must move up the bureaucratic food… Read more »
Member

@webber – Motor vehicle law is for vehicles with… motors. Bringing up horses and wagons is pedantic. Which was my point. There are plenty of legitimate issues to raise with the current and proposed land laws in Hungary. It makes no sense to reduce that discussion to the pedantic.

There are indeed many stupid laws in Hungary and around the world. But the requirements to take a course to do most anything here is just another “Hungaricum”. Need to use a chain saw? You need a certificate. Need to run a retail store? You have to take a course. If you know anything about Hungary, you know about the OKJ courses. Such as:

http://okj-szerelo.lap.hu/
or
http://www.szakkepesites.hu/

Is it silly? You may think so. I my think so. But that is reality here. And there is quite a lobby to keep it that way since the OKJ course “diploma mills” make a lot of money for their owners.

And IMHO no rational adult should trust most things that a politician says to get elected.

webber
Guest

Correction – I don’t think it’s silly. I think it’s idiotic!
“That is the reality here” – tell me about it…
“No rational adult should trust most things a politician says to get elected” – true, true (you missed the sarcasm of my comment on that, apparently), only the last person to say it wasn’t running for office when he said he would streamline regulations and cut red tape. It was Lázár, about two weeks ago. Now, I’d trust him about as far as I can punch, but still he did say it and it doesn’t hurt to remind people.

Member

Yes, sorry, I missed the sarcasm. Apologies.

Member

P.S. I tend to be rather PC on-line. Come to my winery, have a glass of wine, and we can discuss Lázár et al in depth. I actually have a punching bag, if needed.

webber
Guest

Very kind of you.
I hope you’ll be patient with people here. A LOT of government trolls have appeared over time, with the oddest email addresses, and some of them have been very unpleasant.

tappanch
Guest
Major Islamist attacks outside Israel between January 1 and November 14, 2015. (summary by AFP) November 13, 2015: FRANCE – An unprecedented string of attacks leaves at least 120 dead and more than 350 injured. The assailants struck six different sites on Friday evening, including the Stade de France football stadium and eateries in the trendy east of the city. The Bataclan concert venue in Paris, where 82 people were killed, was the hardest hit target. On November 14, the jihadist Islamic State (ISIS) group claims responsibility. November 12, 2015: LEBANON – An attack claimed by ISIS on a stronghold of Lebanon’s Shi’ite movement Hezbollah in southern Beirut, leaves 44 dead. It is the largest ISIS-claimed attack ever in Lebanon, and among the deadliest bombings to hit the country since the end of its 1975-1990 civil war. October 31, 2015: EGYPT – A Russian jet leaving Egypt crashes in the Sinai peninsula, leaving all 224 people on board dead in Russia’s worst air disaster. An ISIS-linked group claims responsibility, and Washington and London say they believe the crash was caused by a bomb on board. October 10, 2015: TURKEY – 102 people are killed and more than 500 injured in… Read more »
webber
Guest

The attack on Turkey is questionable. I actually HOPE it was carried out by ISIS. The other possibility (which many Kurds believe), is even more gruesome.

tappanch
Guest

Second [fake or genuine] Syrian passport found at a dead terrorist was said to have been processed in Greece. [Reuters]

Guest
A bit OT, but connected to the “agricultural land”: When I bought my place in 1998 the law had just been changed so it was legal to buy a piece of ground (and the house and other buildings on it of course) in the village as a foreigner – though the adjacent piece of land outside the village proper (don’t know the expression for this) which the proprietors also wanted to get rid off I could not buy. So the lawyers came up with the construction: I rented that for ever and a day – and when the law might change some day then I could buy that for peanuts … Much later (after Fidesz came to power in 2010) the lawyer got cold feet so we asked the former proprietors (really nice brothers) to accept a new contract which gave this land to one of my wife’s sons. And I know that some/many foreigners bought before 1998 using all kind of barely legal constructions (limited partnerships aka KFTs with Hungarian partners etc) to buy houses and land outside the village proper with vineyards etc . So what will happen to them or rather their possessions? I have to confess… Read more »
Guest

Too late to edit – ok I found it out, it’s his Hungarian wife.

wpDiscuz