A foiled attempt on Viktor Orbán’s life? Unlikely

János Hajdu, head of the anti-terrorist center (TEK) created by Viktor Orbán, spent Tuesday visiting the more important TV stations to announce his crack police force’s discovery of a terrorist organization with possible international ties. The following day I wrote a summary of what actually transpired in the two separate raids, one of which involved two Hungarian men with automatic weapons and homemade silencers who were described by Hajdu as members of an organization called “hadsereg (army) or something like that.” In any case, he seemed to know practically nothing about this “army” except that the two suspects held confused extremist beliefs.

Since then we have learned from Sándor Pintér, the interior minister, that the two men were on their way to kill “a member of the government.” It wasn’t difficult to figure out that Pintér was most likely talking about Viktor Orbán himself. Pintér revealed that the target of these men was a “a person protected” by TEK. At present only two people are protected by TEK–Viktor Orbán and Péter Polt, the chief prosecutor. Polt, of course, is not a member of the government.

Blikk tracked down an organization called Magyar Nemzeti Hadsereg (MNH/Hungarian National Army), whose existence was announced on YouTube in 2011. 24.hu even included a video on which a man in his sixties is delivering a 10-minute harangue about Jews as “genetic vermin.” The speech is confused all right, but consistently and virulently anti-Semitic. During the press conference Pintér read a few sentences from an alleged conversation between the two men. In the conversation one of the men used the phrase “genetic refuse,” which is reserved in Hungarian neo-Nazi talk for the Jews. They don’t call members of the government “genetic refuse.” So, I assume we are talking about the same group and perhaps even the same two people who can be seen on Blikk and heard on 24.hu.

I therefore consider it unlikely that the alleged target of these two madmen was Viktor Orbán or any other government official. But isn’t it an inspiring, confidence-building narrative to have TEK foil an assassination attempt on the prime minister?

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Karl Pfeifer
Guest

It reminds me of the film “a tanú” (the witness). One of the communist functionaries is complaining that he is not even a target for the enemy. What is a conspiracy in Hungary worth, it it is not directed against the leader himself?

Guest

Karl, a tanú is still my favourite Hungarian film – what does that tell us about Hungary (and me, as a foreigner trying to understand the complexities of the Hungarian soul …)?

Just when you think it can’t get any crazier, the Hun government proves otherwise again …

Member

There exists no “Hungarian soul” — just a bundle of attitudes and practices passed on from generation to generation by a certain proportion of the population — I’m not sure if it’s a big majority, a small majority or just a plurality, but it is an extremely repugnant bundle of attitudes and practices to all but themselves. Roughly speaking, it can be described as fascistic, xenophobic, self-aggrandizing and scape-goating, blaming all the negative consequences of the attitudes and practices themselves on anyone but themselves (but usually the Jews). It is a cultural vicious circle, constantly re-creating the conditions for perpetuating itself.

That said, within this foul cultural ambience there nevertheless exists a small creative minority of thinkers and artists that are quite the opposite, and have made disproportionate positive contributions to both Hungarian and international culture. (And decency, too, manages to survive, as shown by the wonderful minority who tirelessly helped and continue to help the refugees.)

Orban and his cronies — as well as his Jobbik alter-egos — are the standard-bearers and perpetuators of this odious bundle of attitudes and practices that amount to anything but a “Hungarian soul.”

Live long and prosper
Guest

Is there also a clear gender divide, wherein a materially larger number of Hungarian men than women belong to this uneducated, xenophobic and prejudiced group? It seems likely to me, although perhaps only more vocal? My expat friend in Budapest and I find precious little to like in Hungarian menfolk, whereas we often remark on our appreciation for the Hungarian female. And yes, we both have Hungarian wives.

webber
Guest

Live long and prosper
Assuming you are not Hungarian, perhaps Hungarian women who would be willing to consider having relations with you are more open to new experiences than the average. So, your “sample” is probably skewed.
Anyway… I don’t like national stereotypes much, and I don’t think there is really a gender divide
I should also note that in my experience,
SOME Hungarians raise their daughters (and sons) with the idea (or example, from the mother) that women should conform to their man’s/husband’s views.
If the husband or boyfriend is tolerant, the girlfriend or wife will conform to that.
If the husband or boyfriend is a xenophobe or nationalist, the girlfriend or wife will conform to that.
This is only true of SOME Hungarian women.
There are plenty of good, tough extremely bright Hungarian women out there, too, who will give you a damned good argument any time you disagree with them (I prefer this personality type in men and women alike – Eva, for one, Agnes Heller for another,my wife for a third – and there are plenty more like them, God bless ’em!).

Observer
Guest

A national “soul” or “character” — is exactly a bundle of attitudes, traits, personal characteristics practices passed on from generation to generation by the larger proportion of the population.
The Hungarian case is interesting, but this is not the space. You’re right, roughly speaking – undemocratic, xenophobic, self-aggrandizing and scape-goating, but many other small nations are like this (e.g. the Mongolians play the Genghis khan theme).
Generally speaking the H fit their geo location better than Romania/Serbia, worse than Austria (actually much worse).
A couple of pronounced characteristics –

harboring great inferiority complex (which underlies many other characteristics)
feeling of isolation (by language) compensated by self-aggrandizing (unique genes, record Nobel Prize winners on a per capita basis)
hypersensitive ego (sértődékenység), but lack of compassion, for fellow Hungarians as well,
very negative attitude – this will not succeed anyway,
cheats by Western standards – I was the clever one – the victim was a dope, so of course ..
Otherwise Hungary is like any other country in the region.

Guest

@Wolfi – As you know, the international situation is intensifying.

D7 Democrat (@D7Democrat)
Guest

OK, Prof Balogh is too polite to point out the obvious.
Orbán is presently Neo-Nazi Europe’s main hero.
The low-life, sewer-dwelling, knuckle-dragging scum across the EU see this man not as a deranged racist psycopath but as “Christian Europe’s” (sic) chief defender.
Why on earth then would Hungarian neo-nazis see the fascist clown in a different light?

Fidesz=Jobbik=Neo-Nazi in every city, town and village in Hungary 2015- they are not going to murder one of their own.

Bowen
Guest

@D7 Democrat.

Agreed. Check out Orban Viktor’s Facebook page.

1) The posts are now in English, whereas it was only in Hungarian before.
2) He’s getting a large amount of ‘likes’ and appreciative comments from bona-fide racists and neo-Nazis across Europe, especially from Poland and Germany. “Please save us! Europe needs more leaders like you!” being the main theme.

webber
Guest

D7
“Fidesz=Jobbik=Neo-Nazi” From the outside that is how it appears. But Jobbik supporters perceive a difference between their party and Fidesz. They think Fidesz is corrupt and insincere – just playing with slogans, and “pretending” to be “true Hungarians”, but not following through. They consider Fidesz people to be closet liberals, and Jew-lovers (“Zsidesz”). This would just be silly irrelevant splitting hairs on the (extreme) right if it were not for the fact that so many Hungarians also perceive Fidesz as corrupt. God help us if the majority, out of desperation and disgust with Fidesz, ever votes for Jobbik.

Member

Orban Wins Nomination!

Just as Academy Award nominees, even if they do not win the Oscar, enjoy the permanent “distinction” of having been nominated, the Orban regime will now enjoy the permanent distinction of having been the first European nation to be nominated for Article 7 suspension of voting rights whether or not the “nuclear weapon” is eventually launched. Another shamee the Veritas Institute will need to work hard to try to write out of Hungarian History.
http://bbj.hu/politics/brussels-green-lights-initiative-to-investigate-democracy-in-hungary_107878

Member

Bravo to Pannonia’s valiant Premier. Perhaps he could now hang this pendant on one of the Horthy statues, or perhaps put it in the beak of the oppressive eagle seizing it from the uplifted hand of the Archangel Gabriel in that self-pitying piece of kitsch…comment image

spectator
Guest

At least the Gabriel figure successfully bridging over the gender disputes..!

You have to seek pretty hard to find one more statue with such androgynous features, with a male name attached to.
Maybe the Orbán regime doesn’t truly homophobe, only pretending to be narrow minded fundamentalist?

While in reality symbolising the ‘homeland’ with a figure they can truly identify with themselves?
Just wondering…

webber
Guest
Sometimes even liars tell the truth, but nobody believes them when they do. It’s possible, even likely, that there are plots on the far right to kill government officials and/or to stage a coup. In my experience, hardcore Jobbik supporters really hate Fidesz (some call it “Zsidesz”), and there are also people for whom Jobbik’s program is too gentle. Just an aside – there is a strange parallel here also between Horthy’s regime and Orbán’s: An obsession with the left, and a failure to see that the imminent threat – even to their lives – is from the extreme right. Orban apparently feels he can somehow handle the right. For some reason he feels threatened by leftist and liberal groups who ran a system under which he, too, could win elections and form governments. Instead of appreciating that they never seriously tried to destroy him personally, he does everything he can to ensure that the left will be demolished forever. By contrast, Orban and crew treat Jobbik and its ilk with kid gloves, even though some of these people openly say that they want to do away with what little is left of democracy altogether and many Jobbik supporters openly… Read more »
Observer
Guest

” they have softened the ground for Jobbik.”

Quite an understatement. They have been laboriously cultivating this ground for years. Getting burnt in 1994 and 2002 elections, Orban came to hate democracy, which did not offer him a straight path to the seat of power, thus as from 2002, if not earlier, Fidesz decidedly undermined the institutions and the concept of democracy. It proved not so difficult.

antika477
Guest
Jobbik is managed by Fidesz. They work together, hand in hand. Not necessarily the supporters of course. Fidesz and the domestic intel people most likely watch jobbikniks and have been doing so for years, many top jobbikniks likely act as informants (remember that Jobbik’s former finance head/treasurer is a neighbor of Rogan’s and Varga’s in the Pasha Park gated community) many leftist opposition people suspect that Fidesz and Orban spy on them so it’s unlikely that Fidesz – which is known to be paranoid – leaves Jobbik out. As a result Orban is confident that Jobbik – when push comes to shove – will be put under control. I contend that there are no such right-wing extremists as this non-organization. This is a made up entity Ohrana style. Either the leaders are secret police or they are selected lunatics who were controlled/instigated by domestic intelligence in order to figure out who is interested in such an organization. This is not a ‘bona fide’ organization. Fidesz has a history of concocting conspiracy theories and similar bizarre stories against it almost always coupled with idiotic secret police involvement. Not many people remember the surveillance story from 1998-1999 (Fidesz alleged that MSZP was… Read more »
spectator
Guest

@webber
“Sometimes even liars tell the truth, but nobody believes them when they do.”

Furthermore, every clock will tell the exact time two times a day, no matter if those are stationary and dead since decades…

Of course, the loonies are there and the disillusioned people clinging on whatever straw the torrent of shit brings along in the wain hope that something will change, they do!

But for heaven’s sake not even all the fairy tales ended with positive results, let alone the home brew ‘pálinka’ inspired dreams!

Orbán is here to stay, while he wants, I have no doubts about it.

The only capable person – yeah, Gyurcsány – has been discredited pretty much everywhere in the country, and there is nobody (yet!) in sight, even remotely resembles in intellect, stamina and candour, whoever likes it or doesn’t…

Hungary, ladies and gentlemen in it’s full glory.

Anybody knows anybody/anything better? I open to any proposal, I really do!

Next, please..!

spectator
Guest
@webber again As addition to your last paragraph – besides agreeing fully – I keep thinking on the long term effect of this totally amoral and unscrupulous “norm-setting” what’s going on in Hungary. In my opinion, if there is no moral boundaries present in one direction – as is everything is allowed and approved against those ‘infidel’ liberals, when (if/ever and so on, but still) things changes it will be the rule against Orbán and Co. too. Simply put: if she had cheated on his husband with me, (I’m a male) it’s fairly good assumption that she will cheat on me, if she has a reason or feel so, so I have nothing to complain about. Once again: if you accept, even encourage incorrect behaviour against one way, you shouldn’t be really surprised when it used against you too. When once the moral standards corrupted, it isn’t really reasonable to expect that it’s a one way affair. Remember, there is no ideology, there is no ‘political correctness’, only sheer interest what matters -this is the official Hungarian policy. But this is – at least – double edged. Now, just for fun, consider the possibility that Orbán is the one in… Read more »
Observer
Guest

spectator
November 28, 2015 at 4:46 pm

You seem to have had a flood of inspiration – love your posts here.

Re. norm setting

This is what I call the 2500 y.o. question, the Socrates one.
People apply double standards naturally, civilizations and religions, from Athenes on, have attempted to create absolute values, with mixed success.
So when push comes to shove usually people close their minds and see only their side of the argument and nobody does this better than the Hungarians. e.g. they have no expression like “fair enough”.

However, politics, particularly in a periods of crisis, are not run on moral norms. So yes, if Orban looses power there has to be a similar drastic cleansing, probably using his own tools and means, before any “consolidation” or “building bridges” or whatever intellectual pipe dream can be initiated.

And NO, this will not make the next government “just like the Orban one”. Simply this is show things work. Real democrats should be able to restrain the system and implement a plan to rebuild some sort of Hungarian democratic state. E.g. US in Japan, The Philippines.

spectator
Guest

Somehow I sill found it interesting that the inner circle of the Orbán government still consist the same people who decided on the infamous “Gripen” affair, and many of the other participants still in (one or other) office even today.
We’re talking about more than fourteen (14) years – the decision happened sometimes in september 2001, between Orbán and the ministers Pintér, Matolcsy and Varga – and the bond still holds, against all odds.

When I studied (among others) the Holy Bible, there was an expression what I have find particularly appalling was the “original sin”. (In my opinion everyone should take responsibility for themselves, for the sins committed by them, not for the sins of their remote relatives – but I was alone with my views at the time.)

However, thank to Viktor Orbán and his ungodly mob, I may inclined to reconsider the use of the expression.

In case I managed to confuse you (again), just read/listen to the communiqué of Pintér, and perhaps take a look at his curriculum vitae, like merits, education and language skills – and then go, figure all by yourself! (The rest just as impressive, btw, but hey, we don’t love them for that, do we?)

spectator
Guest
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