Jewish conspiracy theories in the wake of the refugee crisis

István Gusztos, who often writes opinion pieces for gepnarancs.hu, pointed out a few days ago that, although one cannot equate Fidesz with its media empire “mostly financed from taxpayers’ money,” one cannot help thinking that the conspiracy theories propagated by Magyar Idők, Magyar Hírlap, Echo TV, Lánchid Rádió, and 888.hu cannot be separated from the “official” position of the party and the government. It might be the case that some of the reporters at these media outlets go too far, but by and large Fidesz and its media work hand in hand. We know from one of the reporters at HírTV how pleasant life has been around the station since Viktor Orbán and his once favorite oligarch parted ways. No longer do they get weekly instructions from Fidesz headquarters telling them what they have to write about.

Lately George Soros has frequently been invoked by Viktor Orbán and other Fidesz politicians as the real culprit behind the refugee crisis. In fact, in this case the pro-government media anticipated and prepared the ground for official anti-Soros pronouncements. Magyar Idők began excoriating Soros in late September, when János Csontos wrote an op-ed piece about the “outrageous suggestions” of George Soros concerning the refugee crisis. By the time Viktor Orbán joined in, a month later, the accusation had spread far and wide that Soros was actually funding individual asylum seekers in their quest to reach Europe. For anti-Semites, of course, Soros’s name is code for the “evil influence of Jews and Jewish capital.”

By mid-November two favorite conspiracy theories circulated in Hungary. One was that the whole refugee exodus is a Zionist conspiracy; Jews and the Israeli state are jointly responsible for the crisis. The other theory, which I heard from Mária Schmidt, the director of the House of Terror and Viktor Orbán’s adviser on matters concerning history, claims that rich Arab countries are providing loans to the migrants, who will have to pay the money back from “the generous aid provided by European governments.” I don’t think I need comment on this nonsense from the learned historian.

Viktor Orbán and his fellow politicians reinforce the ignorant public’s outlandish theories, which then gain legitimacy by their repetition. It is therefore not at all surprising that Fidesz officials can occasionally be caught expressing totally unacceptable thoughts that derive from the party’s own more subtle anti-Semitism. One will never catch Viktor Orbán saying anything that can definitively be labelled anti-Semitic. He knows exactly how far he can go. Instead, as István Gusztos aptly said, party officials hand off their anti-Semitic propaganda “as contract work” to Fidesz media outlets. And they, in turn, “plant” anti-Semitic ideas into the heads of ordinary local Fidesz politicians, like the mayor of Szentgotthárd (population 10,000) at the Austro-Hungarian border.

An internet news site called nyugat.hu got hold of a recording of the Szentgotthárd local council meeting at which the mayor, Gábor Huszár, said: “Everybody should accept from me that what happened in Paris is clear proof that certain business circles–and here I can state that the Jewish state is behind [the attack] because it wants to turn Christian Europe against Islam.”  This leaked anti-Semitic comment was especially embarrassing, coming as it did after Péter Szijjártó’s visit to Israel, where he kept referring to the excellent relationship between the Israeli and the Hungarian governments.

Zion

Naturally, the Israeli embassy in Budapest  immediately responded. Gábor Huszár’s words “are proof that there are still those who haven’t learned from history and still repeat negative views on the Jewish state, Israel, and Jewish people.” The embassy finds it unfortunate that “a public figure, the mayor of Szentgotthárd who should be a model in his electoral district, puts forth such untrue and ridiculous claims.” Official Fidesz could only muster the lame response that Gábor Huszár expressed his anti-Semitic views as “a private person.” It was Lajos Kósa, the newly appointed leader of the Fidesz parliamentary caucus, who came up with this brilliant reply. How could Huszár be a “private person” while presiding over a Fidesz-majority city council?

Behind the scenes, however, Fidesz most likely moved with lightning speed. Although Huszár himself was unreachable when ATV wanted to find out more about his opinion on Israel’s role in staging the terror attacks in Paris, his secretary assured the television station that a statement would be released soon about the incident. And indeed, after a few hours Huszár apologized for “the unfortunate phrasing.” Opposition parties demanded the man’s resignation. DK was the most direct in its condemnation of Fidesz as the source of the general approval in rightist circles of the various conspiracy theories.

There is no question that Viktor Orbán’s accusations against Soros are linked, even if indirectly, to the Zionist conspiracy theories. And yet, despite the mayor’s apology, the attacks on Soros continue. Yesterday both Lajos Kósa and Antal Rogán railed against him in parliament, this time charging him with being responsible for the citizens’ initiative accepted by the European Commission.

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petofi
Guest

He’s planted fear of strangers in the simple heart of the country’s simpletons. Now it’s time to feed them a little red meat–a JEW, trussed up and fully delivered, with all his evil intentions against the spotless virtues of god-fearing Christians. GrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRRR.

(Meszaros and Orban, rolling on the ground, while the tidbits of canine specialties sizzle over the giant barbecue…)

Ndy
Guest

Conspiracy theory – the scapegoat phenomenon rearing again.

Orban and Fidesz leaders’s obscene provocations with glaringly fake and accessible tools at their immediate disposition.

Orban has a very refined sense of the garbage the average population will gobble up.
He even feeds this to the poor in lieu of edible food for the table.

Guest

The Opel car manufacturing plant in Szentgotthárd is one of the biggest in Hungary – I wonder what the managers and shareholders of General Motors (which Opel is a part of) are thinking about this.
And now lunatics like latefor can accuse me again of being “anti Hungarian” …

http://media.opel.com/media/intl/en/opel/company_opel/plants/szentgotthard.brand_opel.html

webber
Guest

I believe the Audi plant in Győr is bigger, though I could be wrong.
https://audi.hu/hu/a-vallalat/

The plant accounts for some 9% of Hungarian exports in any given year (the country’s 2nd largest exporter). So, if that were closed (God forbid!), there would be an immediate 9% drop in exports, massive unemployment in W. Hungary, and a chain reaction of bankruptcies of small suppliers throughout Hungary.

Audi finances Győr’s women’s handball team, Győri Audi ETO, which is one of Europe’s most successful teams and has recruited top players from all over Europe (even one from Brazil). So, if Audi were to go, the economy and Hungarian sport would suffer alike.

The Suzuki plant is also large – it provides approximately 2.2% of Hungary’s export income every year.

A few years ago the management of Audi mentioned that certain Hungarian government policies were detrimental to the plant’s operation. I hope and trust their voices were heard.

Again, this is not the 1930s and the German Chancellor cannot just demand that a German company stop operations because s/he has an ax to grind – but it is definitely not good for future economic prospects if Hungary’s government doesn’t pay attention to what its international partners have to say.

Istvan
Guest
Webber you are indeed logical and consistent in your posts. I agree with you that the nature of the modern German state does not allow Merkel simply to order major German auto firms to pull out of Hungary and move production to possibly Asia. The reason I mention Asia is because compared to Poland and Czech Republic, for example, Hungary still offers relatively low wages on all hierarchy levels, particularly in the blue-collar sectors. There are Central European countries that can offer lower labor costs, such as Romania, but according to Eurostat, labor productivity is higher in Hungary according to current analysis of the consulting firm JD Powers and Associates. There is also another interesting factor and that is how German firms hide the fact that some of their cars are not in fact German made or that many of the components of cars actually still assembled in Germany have numerous Hungarian made components. So here in the USA and to a degree in Latin America cars are marketed as “German engineered” or “German designed.” This applies even to German cars made in the lower wage southern USA. At least for the moment much of the market for these cars… Read more »
Guest

Istvan, car manufacturing is a complicated field, you’re right there.
But in the long run Europe and the USA maybe don’t count too much.
VW already sells more cars in China than in Germany and also production facilities there are being ramped up.

PS:
I had to laugh at your remark re “designed in Germany” – yes, you find it everywhere …
So much stuff that we buy in Europe still has a well established German brand name – but it’s 100% made in the PRC or Vietnam or India or …
Often I wonder whether ordinary Germans understand that many of their favourite brands have been sold.

Istvan
Guest

You are right about the growth of the Chinese auto market. But it’s driven by the rich and the near rich who are obsessed with having real European and American cars (US high end cars whose engines may be made in Mexico). The mass market for the working class requires higher wages which creates yet another problem.

Latefor
Guest

Webber – this is most definitely something to worry about. Angela Merkel has to provide employment for the millions of incoming refugees. Hungary has to look for opportunities/investors from other countries to avoid disaster.

Truthler
Guest

But foreign automotive industry doesn’t grew really the GNI/capita ratio of the country. GNI is more important than GDP.

Guest

London Calling!

This so-called ‘Soros’ conspiracy is Horthy redux.

It is so easy to see how this insidious institutionalised Jewish hate has become a National antisemitic trait.

Officially sanctioned by government internally and denied internationally

So commocratic in a democracy-stalled country.

So Horthy deniers can’t you still understand that when you institutionalise hate and prejudice – you have to be responsible for its consequences?

Horthy?

Guilty as charged.

Guilty as hell.

Another nail in the coffin of Hungary’s EU membership.

In the name of God, go! (Oliver Cromwell)

Regards

Charlie

Guest

Yes, Webber, the automotive industry is one sector where Hungary or rather Hungarian workers are (still) competitive.
It would be a shame if the crazy Fiddik/Jobbik politics were responsible for the companies’ move to other countries.

PS and OT: …
Opel is also very strong on the Hungarian market so as an old Opel customer I have no problem to get good service and also my relatives and friends often have their cars serviced/repaired when they visit us.
I remember the first time I went to our village garage many years ago when the engine wasn’t running smoothly, not hoping for too much. Then came my surprise when the boss called out for his son – who came over with his laptop computer and the cable to connect it to the car’s onboard electronics …
Since that day they have done all the repairs on our cars – except for the MOT which has to be done in Germany …

Regenbogen
Guest
The post is correct. These theories are being propagated by tax-payer financed, Fidesz-oligarch owned media. However. It’s all cool because the Jews are great friends of Orban and Lazar. Just yesterday Rabbi Fröhlich said that he’s a fan of Janos Lazar’s and he also likes Gusztav Zoltai, the corrupt, former communist military guard member turned Fidesznik a lot. Mazsihisz and EMIH are loyal to Orban because Orban will defend them, you see. Orban promised to defend them, he’s a good man. Plus Hungarian taxpayers will spend some 2bn forints on the Maccabi Games to be held in Budapest. Well, from that amount 30-40% goes back to Fidesz, but these are the conditions we have to live with and the organizers will also keep a part, but that’s natural see not even Jesus’ tomb was guarded for free, if you get my drift. Yes, there exists some antisemitism in Hungary but it always existed. We have to live with it. Luckily Orban will defend the Hungarian Jewry, I mean he promised it, so I don’t think these post are very helpful. Life is good in Hungary for the Jews. They can do whatever they want as long as they shut the… Read more »
webber
Guest

Regenbogen,
There was a 38% rise in anti-semitic incidents in Hungary between 2013 and 2014 (story below). The data for 2015 is not yet out (the total will only become clear on 1 Jan.).

How much do you want to bet there were even more attacks in 2015 than in 2014?

And how much do you want to bet that these attacks are in direct proportion to anti-Semitism in media supported by and supporting this government?

So, Orban is protecting Jews, while his media is disseminating anti-semitism?

You might want to think a bit more about that.

http://www.atv.hu/kulfold/20150415-drasztikusan-nott-az-antiszemita-tamadasok-szama

Regenbogen
Guest

I’m not sure we want to debate cooked numbers and statements of the liberal media.

We have to place our trust in Viktor Orban. After all he is the leader of Hungary not you. He is a strong leader and if decides something then he usually accomplishes it, whatever the costs. This is good. A leader must be strong.

If he said he will protect the Jews of Hungary then he will.

There’s always a little friction. That’s usual. But I don’t see the problems. Hungary is advancing and life keeps getting better. We are lucky. Of course the liberals keep complaining but when did they not, right?

webber
Guest

“life keeps getting better”???
Where are you sitting now – Nizhni Novgorod? Novosibirsk?

Wherever it is, it isn’t Hungary (if you are in Hungary, you are simply a liar)

47% of Hungarians are living in poverty now, and 39.7% of Hungarians are living in conditions of severe deprivation. There has been a steady worsening of living conditions for Hungarians since 2010. Before you start claiming this is a liberal bias, that’s data from TÁRKI, a polling organization that has worked for and still does surveys for Fidesz.

Survey here:
http://www.tarki.hu/hu/news/2013/kitekint/20131028_szegeny.html

Report in English, here:

http://bbj.hu/economy/report-47percent-of-hungarians-living-in-poverty_71293

Incidentally the figures I repeated above are not from any media – they are the official, Hun. govt. stats on anti-semitic incidents. So, again, you are wrong.
ATV just reported the official figures.

Unless Orban, personally, is going to give a bodyguard to each Jew in Hungary, there will be more and more attacks – BECAUSE of anti-semitism in Orban’s media.

Feri
Guest

The funny thing with official statistics is that loyal Fideszniks – I heard them not once -openly believe that KSH figures are cooked – but in favour of the opposition. “Orban is really trying hard, but subversive liberals within the Statistical Office and the ministries are working against him and are falsifying the numbers for Orban to look bad”. I kid you not.

Observer
Guest

Great! Rarely such a good thong in cheek.

Webber, you seem not to appreciate it.

Guest

@Regenbogen
December 2, 2015 at 6:33 am

“If he said he will protect the Jews of Hungary then he will.”

Like Horthy did, right?

You are joking Regenbogen, aren’t you, having us on?

Member

@Webber

I think Regenbogen is just pulling your leg.

webber
Guest

Albrecht Neumerker
You may be right, but there have been so many trolls here over the past years that I’ve lost the ability to sense sarcasm.
If Regenbogen was joking s/he can indicate that.
Even if s/he was joking, my misunderstanding of that gave me a good excuse to present some data related to Eva’s blog entry.

Member

@Webber

Your presentation of data is excellent and I thank you for that.

Guest
@webber December 2, 2015 at 6:20 am Re Regenbogen’s post above. EMIH is the Hungarian branch of the American lubavicher Chabad, a hassidic sect specializing in missionary work among secular Jews to return them to the fold of the Chabad version of Jewish orthodoxy. They operate in every country around the world where there is a significant secular Jewish presence. A politically very cunning religious cult, in every country they operate, they nurture as close an alliance as possible with the dominant political power in the country. In Hungary that happens to be Orbán’s crowd, as in Russia it is Putin’s. The resident head of Chabad in Hungary happens to be the brother-in-law of the resident head of Chabad in Russia, a good chum of Putin’s, who by now has managed to become the orthodox chief rabbi there. The Hungarian branch of Chabad is currently moving to achieve a similar status for its leader, Baruch Oberlander, even though the actual membership of EMIH congregations is currently still only at most in the hundreds in a country where persons of Jewish descent (in one way or another) are estimated to number at between 80 to 100 thousand. EMIH is very close… Read more »
petofi
Guest

@Regenbogen

Yes, well…the jews of Germany, pre-war II, also thought that the highly ‘cultured’ Germans would protect them. And, they did…so well that they built a fence around them, too.

I’d have more trust in an alley-cat than I do in Herr Orban, and the Catholic-addled conservatives in the background.

(My best guess is that some member/s of Mossad read the riot act to Victor…and lo and behold, a bond of friendship blossomed.)

Truthler
Guest

Highly cultured Germans? I know only highly cultured English French or Italians… but highly cultured Germans… Was it a joke?

Guest

@Truthler
December 3, 2015 at 4:52 am

Let’s not exaggerate.

Historically, Germany had been highly cultured indeed, but also profoundly antisemitic. High culture and antisemitism are by no means mutually exclusive.

It just happened to be a fatal error and blindness on the part of German Jews that they had taken high culture as some kind of insurance against antisemitic excess.

Today, Germany is still a highly cultured country, and also profoundly decent, particularly the younger generation. They seem to have fully confronted and dealt with the demons of Germany’s past, and keep traditional antisemitism very much in check.

In sharp contrast to Hungary.

Guest

…… By accepting Orban’s Commocracy – you diminish the hope that one day Hungarians will be free in a decent democracy.

Your astonishing endorsement smacks of ‘We’re alright, Jack’

What about the 10% of Hungarians who suffer discrimination and poverty that don’t have such a cosy relationship with your beloved Orban? Hungarian Roma.

What about the poor so arrogantly despised by your beloved Lazar?

What about the homeless and jobless underclass?

Yeah “I’m alright, Jack”.

……another Hungarian who doesn’t get – or who doesn’t want – democracy.

Unfathomable.

Guest

……but then again your post may just be a wind up.

Sil
Guest

Orban is winning and he’s just getting started, oh yes.

He is young (remember that Berlusconi entered politics when he was close to 60 and left politics close to 80) and hungry.

Merkel will be gone in a year or two – Orban ensured that he will stay for decades to come. As a thorough lawyer he is planning his moves ahead, way beyond 2020.

He is the envy of all Western European leaders. No question about that.

http://444.hu/2015/12/02/orban-europa-legmeghatarozobb-figuraja-a-politico-listajan

webber
Guest

Sil
More proof that 444 is just a Hun. govt. mouthpiece. Thanks for that.

Now, are you really trying to tell Western Europeans and Americans here that Orban is influential in their countries? I can hear the laughter from where I am sitting. Can’t you?

Guest

webber: “Now, are you really trying to tell Western Europeans and Americans here that Orban is influential in their countries? I can hear the laughter from where I am sitting.”

One doesn’t laugh at a metastasizing cancer.

webber
Guest

Jean P
In their day, Hitler, Mussolini, and Stalin were considered influential in Europe. They actually had power, and yet…
Orban is a pathetic fat little man ruling a small impoverished country on the edge of Europe that doesn’t even have an army to speak of.

If you can find one non-Hungarian person (or non-Hun.govt. spokesperson) in Europe who actually believes Hungary is an economic and social success story that is worth emulating, I’ll eat my hat.

The cancer stops inside the borders of the Hungarian-speaking “world.”

Sil
Guest

Yes, yes, Merkel must watch Orban like a hawk because Orban is friends with Seehofer and without the approval of Seehofer Merkel’s political future is over.

If Orban can engineer the sacking of Merkel then his real power will be acknowledged. He has all the time in the world, Merkel not so much. Then nobody will mess with Orban and the Hungarians. The Hungarians are a world nation.

But Orban successfully aligned himself with Putin and Russia so that even the US had to acknowledge that Orban is independent that US has no control over him. The US had no choice but to concede Putin won this game. The world is changing and Russia is getting stronger also in Europe.

Nobody can complain but Orban rearranged the entire NATO and EU by himself. Isn’t that an accomplishment? He is a real winner-type. Hungary has a leader who is admired by the world when did this happen the last time?

webber
Guest

Sil (силии, силовои?)
“Orban rearranged the entire NATO and EU all by himself”

What are you going on about? WHAT rearrangement of NATO? Unless you mean the idea to expel Hungary (which I have heard whispered here and there).
WHAT rearrangement of the EU? Expulsion here, too? Please, do tell us.

Putin – Yes, that’s going well isn’t it – the alignment with Putin.
Turkey, Orban’s other “friend” is now in a sort of cold-war with Russia. The Blue Stream gas line project is finished now. Gas from Azerbaijan may come instead (Turkey has already built lines in that direction).
Paks is facing trouble.
Have you seen the price of oil lately? Just checked – WTI price just under $42 a barrel.
That’s “great” for the Russian economy, eh? (it IS good for Hungary)
The little friendship with Russia makes Orban persona non-grata for all r-wing Poles.

So, things are just great on the Eastern front.

Sil
Guest

Orban is winning. He is stronger than ever. He has more ambition than ever. He has superhuman strength, he is totally devoted to his ideas.

Now he really wants to reconstruct Hungary.

What’s happened until now in Hungary was only the very beginning of the story.

The world around Hungary is changing and now he must change Hungary accordingly.

East is the new West.

webber
Guest

Great. Orban has “superhuman strength.”
How old are you, Sil?

Was I right? You don’t live in Hungary? (нижний? петер?)

If I was wrong, and you do, I hope you don’t have to be hospitalized in the near future – while all this “reconstruction” is going on. Hospitals in Hungary don’t look great. Even those that have been “reconstructed” are having certain problems with quality and staff. For instance, a story just came up that 2/3s of the anesthesiologists in one of Budapest’s best hospitals have just resigned. They’re leaving Hungary. They’re going west, where they will have to work much less for four times (yes 4x) more pay.

Somehow this “East is the new West” thing of yours doesn’t appeal to these doctors. Strange, isn’t it? They’re well educated. You’d think they’d know better… But they’re going West.

Operations have to be delayed. People who need care now won’t get it.

So, there are certain problems with the “reconstruction” it seems.

If you read Hungarian, story here:

http://index.hu/belfold/2015/12/02/szent_imre_aneszteziologus_felmondas/

Observer
Guest

Here we are guys, a great example of what the process of intense inbreeding of burdened souls with limited IQ results in. These are cooked in the same (crack) pot as the
– Jesus was a Hungarian,
– exceptionally superior Hungarian genes, together with the Japanese,
– Hungary was the heroic defense tower that protected Christian Europe, etc. etc.

PLEASE read Sil.

You wouldn’t believe it, if someone told you about how cretinous does it get there.

Guest

Yes of course!

So many Easterners are moving to the West.

I see what you mean East is the new (overwhelmed) West?

And the East disappears up its own orifice?

I hadn’t quite seen it like that but how right you are.

How perspicacious – we all missed it.

Guest

Sil: “East is the new West.”

East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet ………..
But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth
…………

WEGGIE
Guest

Encounters in the “Shop of the Year”

Hhint: it’s a CBA, a Jobbik/Fidesz-supporting franchise grocery chain.

http://index.hu/mindekozben/poszt/2015/12/02/rohadt_ananasz_a_cba-bol_otszazert_az_eladok_szerint_ha_nem_tetszik_szoljak_orban_viktornak/

HiBoM
Guest

Could Eva or some other Gyurcsány lover explain to me what on earth he thought he was doing voting for yesterday’s amendment that now makes it legal for close relatives of politicians and even those writing the tenders to enter them? It is a cynical and disgraceful piece of legislation, and yet Gyurcsány, other DK-ers and Fodor voted for it…

webber
Guest
only
Guest

It was either a mistake or just the usual back room deals the leftists are always happy to cut with Fidesz.

Fidesz probably gave some minuscule portion in some public procurement to some people close to DK and the Liberals.

As it’s known Mr. Fodor is paid for by Fidesz and both DK and Fidesz need each other like YIn and Yang.

I guess it’s just a usual leftist backroom deal with Fidesz so nothing special really. Why is this a surprise? The leftists also need money to stay afloat. Politics is the art of compromise.

Guest

Parliament is a rubber stamp chamber – a complete irrelevance.

With all the bills effectively being introduced and voted on by Private Members’ Bills, Parliament is completely impotent.

Debating is futile in any sense of progressing democracy in a people-representative way.

To think it was the English Houses of Parliament that inspired Steindl’s Gothic design – it has nothing else in common. Nothing even connected.

A Commocracy? Yes

A De-mock-racy? Maybe

Debating chamber? No.

Hub of democracy? Never

It has been like this for eons – so why bother getting upset about its defective processes?

Why even bother turning up?

petofi
Guest

@Eva

“They don’t even know what they vote for.”

Of course not; nor do they care.
Democracy is not for Hungarians.
If you put ‘the will of the people’ on one side of the scale and ‘the will of Orban’ on the other, which would carry more weight? (Sunday shopping, anyone?)

On a packet of ‘Democratic Principles’ there is a warning: Not For Hungarians: they will instantly debase.

Observer
Guest

This is one of the practices Fidesz introduced and widely used to obscure the real goals of many bills. In combination with the use of the private bill vehicle, these are most probably illegal as the practice circumvents a series of requirements re the submission of bills. The omnibus bill is the third preferred tool for obscuring the legislation process. All were designed to gut out the role of parliament, even of those dominated by Fidesz.

Orbán could not stand any, even a minor obstacle – he saw his will as supreme, but since it could not be pronounced as such (lucky Fürher), the next best thing was to become law as quickly as possible.

BTW, these corrupt practices accompanied by poor quality drafting necessitate excessive amount of amendments, which in turn destabilized the Hungarian legal system and disrupted its functioning.

spectator
Guest

Regarding a subject and some:

What is hindering you, people, to see the whole picture?
Orbán’s goal isn’t the Hungarian “dominance”— whatever could it mean — but the Orbán dominance, on the beginning at least in Central Europe, then expanding a ‘little’ every which way. His goal to become the mightiest man alive that, part of the Globe anyway.

While we trying to figure out bits and pieces here and there, trying to find reason behind the individual events, he moves forward and doesn’t give a flying f**k what we — or anybody else — thinking or trying to comprehend.

Rest assured, everything goes well and according to the plan. Never mind the slight glitches what the inherent stupidity causes, the bull has begun his way in that china-shop and nobody in sight to stop it’s advance.

Summarising: we really should try, or at least call the attention to stop the ‘rise of Arturo Ui’— or pack our survival kit and be prepared to get away in good time!

Guest

Recently I saw that the late Mr. Levi, that witness of the Holocaust, has had his ‘Complete Works’ out and published. Curious if it will be a best-seller in Hungary and on the Fidesz ‘must-read’ list….;-)….Plenty of food for thought there in that tome, eh? Nothing like books coming out at the right time perhaps to give maybe a little lesson on the way of morality in that small country led by paranoid and small men.

petofi
Guest

It’s on the back of a culture and society such as Hungary’s that Kafka’s nightmare scenario will come into being.

Guest

Three points:

1.
In Australia, we have an apt term to describe the likes of Fidesz antisemites: arseholes incorporated.

2.
The most ridiculous thing about supposed Soros-inspired Zionist conspiracies is that Soros is a committed anti-Zionist who considers the entire Israel project a thoroughly misbegotten venture.

3.
I suspect that the real reason behind the campaign against Soros is that Fidesz (and Jobbik) would like nothing better than to shut down the Soros-financed Central European University in Budapest, which they consider the source of a great deal of highly dangerous and damaging subversive anti-illiberal political influence in their midst, and consequently they are desperately searching for some way, any way, of throwing that institution out of Hungary as soon as possible.

Latefor
Guest

Soros is influenced by Carl Popper, the Austrian phylosopher. He believes in an ‘open society’ open borders, etc. . . etc. . . .speaking a universal language: Esperanto (please see Soros’s father etc.)
Orban and the Catholic Church wants to preserve Hungary’s 2000 years of culture and history.
Period.

Guest

“Orban and the Catholic Church wants to preserve Hungary’s 2000 years of culture and history.
Period.”

Ha! Ha!.HAaaaaaaaa! HAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Oh! Sto…… HAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa stop pleeeeeeeees ….HAAaaaaaaaaàa ……
Haaaaaaaa. STOPPPP!!!!!……. Haaaaaaaaaaaàaaàaaa…….

Guest

@Latefor
December 4, 2015 at 4:32 am

“Hungary’s 2000 years of culture and history? Which Orbán and the Catholic Church wants to preserve?”

BWAHAHAHA!!!!

:-))))

On Soros:

It is great credit to the intelligence of Soros that he has been influenced by Carl Popper, that giant of twentieth century scientific thinking, the bulk of whose work was done in England and not Austria.

It is also great credit to the intelligence of Soros that he believes in and promotes open society.

And, for your information, open borders per Soros do not mean open slather, and neither does being an esperantists mean anybody being forced to learn and use it.

An open society works on the principle of attraction, just like capitalism, rather than the principle of compulsion characteristic of the way closed societies operate.

I take it that you prefer a closed society, where people are forcibly shut in.

Examples of closed societies: the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, the Islamic State of Iran or Muamar Khadaffi’s Lybia.

Presumably therefore it is these sorts of political and social arrangements that would, for you, be the ideal arrangements for Hungary too.

Member
I really hate to be bearer of bad news but Hungary is not 2000 year old, and either its culture. Pannonia (current Hungary) was part of the Roman Empire until the 4th Century. Aquincum is one of the proof. It was a thriving Roman settlement, believe built around the 1st Century. The Carpathian Basin was ruled by Slavs and some other nations well into the arrival of the Hungarians, at the end of the 9th Century. ( Hungary as such did not even exist until the 12th Century.) By the way one of the explanation the origin of Hungarian is the Ten Arrows (On-ogur), as it was ten tribes (with the 3 Turkish tribe) that united with the 7 magyars to take the land. Hungary’s last 2000 year of history includes barbarism, paganism at least for 900 years, and judaism. It is just the Christians did a really good job to getting rid off the others. You know how Orban is afraid of other religions taking over? Well… You should read about King Saint Stephen.. So what is the 2000 year exactly Orban and the Catholic Church wants to preserve? They doing a great job preserving the first half of… Read more »
Latefor
Guest

Some1- my mistake – It was supposed to be more than 1000 years – give and take.

Latefor
Guest

Mike – you should never “presume” anything. I would really appreciate if you would be kind enough to explain how “open society” could/would work and benefit Hungary.

Latefor
Guest

“Popper’s theory that knowledge is provisional and fallible implies that society must be open to alternative points of view. An open society is associated with cultural and religious pluralism; it is always open to improvement because knowledge is never completed but always ongoing: “if we wish to remain human, then there is only one way, the way into the open society…into the unknown, the uncertain and insecure”.

The last sentence really got me worried.Also, the emphasis on the “individual” the “I” the “I” the “I” makes me feel “insecure”.

webber
Guest
Latefor You say emphasis on the “individual”, the “I” makes you feel insecure. And so it should, if you are of Christian faith. All Christians believe that we will face our maker alone. God will judge us as individuals. Put in naive, traditional terms, God will put our individual sins and good deeds on scales to see. “He knows when you’ve been bad or good, so be good for goodness’ sake” (Sorry – Christmas is coming: Santa takes the place of God in the song). If you are Christian, then you know your naked soul will face God alone – as an individual. It is as individuals we are judged. It matters not what your nationality was, or what other group you belonged to in life. What matters is what you did on this earth for humanity, as a whole ( Many theologians say it doesn’t even matter whether you called yourself Christian (or Jewish, or pagan, or whatever) during your life – what matters is acting in a Christian manner. A pagan can be embraced by God, and a Christian priest can be condemned by God (recall Christ’s teachings about the Good Samaritan) Did you turn away from the… Read more »
Latefor
Guest
Webber – re: Hungarian culture and history – my mistake! It was supposed to be 1000 years give and take. re: reading Soros – I used to be fascinated by him and believe it or not, I read almost all his books. You said: “If you are Christian, this is the time to get your individual self, your “I”, alone, prepared for its death and meeting in the afterlife. You will stand alone then. (anyway, death is truly terribly personal and individual – even if you don’t believe in the above)” I’m NOT planning to die just yet, so how terrible death is doesn’t concern me, but suffering does. re: being a good Christian – I have done my part (and keep doing it as we speak) in the “goodness” part and I have nothing to worry about facing my maker to judge me as an individual. BUT, with all due respect, I’m not in HEAVEN yet, therefore I’m concerned with the emphasis on the “I” on planet earth. To me “Open Society” sounds too perfect in theory, and according to Soros, there is no such a thing as “perfection”. I cannot see how it could work in practice, and… Read more »
webber
Guest
I misunderstood you. It seems you mean “I” as in selfishness. Now we may be reading from the same page. I don’t want to explain or defend Soros’s or (rather) Bergson or Popper’s idea of Open Society, thanks – other than to note that Popper was concerned with the dangers of Communism and of Nazism, and wrote of an ideal society that could resist both in which all individuals have access to information, think critically, and come to their own decisions (after which they may collectively vote, or do whatever, based on those individual decisions). The antithesis of an Open Society is one in which any group, party, or organization claims to be the unique, sole repository of truth. I don’t believe Popper thought his ideal society could exist. It was just an ideal – and ideals are never achieved, but may (or may not) be worth striving for (Soros thinks they are, apparently). Think of St. Augustine’s City of God – another ideal that can never be achieved on this earth, but still some think it is worth imagining. If you don’t like the idea – no problem. Soros welcomes debate and disagreement, I understand. It’s implicit in the… Read more »
Latefor
Guest

Webber said : “As to your death – May you be right! Most of us will die sooner than we expect.”
What do you mean by this comment?

webber
Guest

Exactly what it said. I hope that you live for a long time.

I was raised to think that I may die any day – a tree might fall, a car might hit me, some random event could end my life. Since I got that idea at an early age, I don’t find it morbid. It doesn’t bother me. Most of my relatives, who got the same education at home, have lived to a very old age with that knowledge.

Still, death is a unique experience, so I guess many of us (incl. myself) will be surprised when our time comes.

You are in good health, apparently, and expect to have a long life. I hope your expectations are met.

That’s all.

webber
Guest

P.S. I don’t wish death on anyone, even those whom I dislike.

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