The case of the Bálint Hóman statue from a different angle

You may find it strange that I am starting a post about the controversial statue of an anti-Semitic minister of education and culture, Bálint Hóman, with a quotation from an opinion piece on Viktor Orbán in a recent issue of politico.hu, but I hope that by the end of this article I will be able to justify this choice. Here are the crucial sentences in which the author, Luke Walker, explains why the European Union tolerates Viktor Orbán’s behavior:

Once a critic of most things Russian, Orbán embraces Putin and seeks to secure Russian energy supplies for Hungary, even as he signs off on EU sanctions against Moscow. Many Hungarians say, in hushed tones, that Orbán is better than the alternative: Jobbik, the openly anti-Semitic far-right party that has a fifth of the vote [sic]. One imagines that Brussels agrees.

Those Hungarians who whispered their opinions into Walker’s ears are sadly mistaken in their belief that supporting Viktor Orbán will stave off the ascent of the worse alternative, Jobbik. And if the politicians of the European Union fall for this Fidesz propaganda they deserve what they get. Because as this Bálint Hóman statue controversy clearly indicates, Jobbik and Fidesz work hand in hand. To support Fidesz is to support the main tenets of Jobbik’s platform.

I’ve already written two posts on Bálint Hóman, one in May and another in August. The first one was published when a Hungarian court rehabilitated Hóman, who had been sentenced to life imprisonment in 1946 for taking part in the cabinet meeting that gave its blessing to the declaration of war on the Soviet Union. The second was written when it became known that the city of Székesfehérvár was planning to erect a statue of Hóman in Hungarian gala-dress (díszmagyar) in front of a gymnasium on, of all places, Béla Bartók tér.  The anti-German Bartók left Hungary in 1940 when the strongly pro-German Hóman was still minister of education. In both posts it was Hóman’s anti-Semitism that was the center of attention, as it still is.

Ever since domestic and international Jewish organizations got wind of the impending erection of the statue protest followed protest. Just lately Ronald S. Lauder, president of the World Jewish Congress, “called on Prime Minister Viktor Orbán to intervene in this matter and to ensure that this statue is not built with public funds.” A couple of days later the co-chairs of the U.S. House Bipartisan Taskforce for Combatting Anti-Semitism sent a letter to Viktor Orbán protesting the monument. In Hungary, conferences were organized where historians explained yet again why Hóman doesn’t deserve a statue, and last night a small group of people gathered in Székesfehérvár to protest. Meanwhile, work has begun on the pedestal. The statue is supposed to be erected by the 130th anniversary of Hóman’s birthday, which is December 29.

I don’t think I can add anything new to the subject of Hóman’s anti-Semitism. I have already covered what historians know to date about his political career. Instead, today I would like to take a couple of steps back and look at the issue from a different perspective.

Who came up with the idea of a Hóman statue in the first place?  In 2011 a local Jobbik politician, Gábor Kováts, obviously a great admirer of Bálint Hóman, decided to establish the Bálint Hóman Cultural Foundation. On the board of the foundation was Mrs. Marth, née Krisztina Vida, who in 2010 was Jobbik’s parliamentary candidate in Székesfehérvár. According to an article that appeared on kettosmerce.blog.hu, Kováts’s Facebook profile includes the number 88, the normal code for Heil Hitler. By now, gone with the wind.

From the beginning, the Hóman Cultural Foundation was supported by such Fidesz organizations as the Hungarian Academy of Arts led by György Fekete which, thanks to Viktor Orbán’s special favor, was given equal standing with the Hungarian Academy of Sciences in the new constitution of Hungary.  In 2012 the foundation received 1.5 million forints for a conference and a poetry competition. In 2013 it received, also from the Hungarian Academy of Arts, 2 million forints to organize a “poetry camp” in Szekler country in Romania. Kettősmérce has been unable to discover where the roughly 5 million forints came from in 2013 and 2014. It is also a mystery how many employees the foundation has, whose “personal expenses” last year were over 2.5 million forints.

András Cser-Palkovics, mayor of Székesfehérvár

András Cser-Palkovics, mayor of Székesfehérvár

In 2013 another conference was held on Bálint Hóman, which was opened by András Cser-Palkovics, Fidesz mayor of Székesfehérvár. According to him, during the years of socialism “they concealed the real history of the city,” a bizarre claim because the authorities didn’t prevent historians from writing local histories during the Kádár regime.

Obviously, the far-right Hóman Foundation and the Fidesz leadership of the city get along splendidly. In fact, it was the foundation that came up with the idea of a statue for Hóman back in 2011. At that time, however, Hóman was still considered to be a war criminal, and thus Cser-Palkovics couldn’t possibly embark on such a project. But then came May 2015 when Hóman was rehabilitated. The doors were opened for the foundation to realize its cherished dream, and the Fidesz majority with the one Jobbik member of the city council happily voted for the statue.

Normally one cannot extrapolate from local politics, where party affiliations are often not so sharply delineated as on the national level. But the Hóman case highlights the close ties between Jobbik and Fidesz on the national level. Otherwise, it couldn’t have happened that the Hóman Foundation received 15 million forints for the statue from the Ministry of Justice in addition to the 2 million that was given to them by the city.

There is a puzzling aspect to the grant from the Ministry of Justice. Although the rehabilitation of Hóman didn’t take place until May of 2015, the grant had already been awarded to the Bálint Hóman Cultural Foundation sometime prior to June 6, 2014 because, according to the current minister of justice, László Trócsányi, the foundation received the money for the statue during Tibor Navracsics’s tenure. This is the same Navracisics who was allegedly “exiled” to Brussels for his moderate political views. Indeed, in Brussels he tried his very best to convince members of the European Parliament that he agreed with practically nothing the Orbán government had done between 2010 and 2014. And yet this “moderate” man gave 15 million forints to Gábor Kováts’s Hóman Foundation. Surely, even if most people in Székesfehérvár have no idea of who Hóman was, Navracsics certainly does.

Tibor Navracsics, sweating it in Brussels at his hearing

Tibor Navracsics, sweating it in Brussels at his hearing

Currently three cabinet members–János Lázár, Zoltán Balog, and László Trócsányi–are against the erection of the statue, but surely it will go up. This hideous statue is in the corner of some studio, waiting to be installed in late December. But if these three important members of the cabinet are against the statue, who is insisting on it? It can be only one person, Viktor Orbán, who seems to follow in the footsteps of Jobbik in practically everything. And his strategy is working. Fidesz’s popularity is growing and Jobbik’s is the lowest it has been since 2010. Yielding to domestic and foreign pressure and nixing the statue would show him to be weak, which might result in some Jobbik sympathizers leaving the fold.

Let me repeat: there is no appreciable difference between the two parties, and Fidesz is the more dangerous because it is the party in power. The real enemy is not Jobbik but Fidesz. The dangerous man is not Gábor Vona but Viktor Orbán. Dangerous for his own people and dangerous for Europe.

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letterman
Guest

I don’t understand why people in Hungary hate each other. Jewish people are Hungarian people and Hungarian people are Jewish people. I read that Arpad came from Jewish Kazar kingdom, and Jewish Kazar’s protected Magyars, some who are Jewish. Jewish people in Carpathia welcomed their Magyar Kazar brothers and helped them settle in Carpathia. Why so much anti-Semitic self-hating in Hungary?

webber
Guest

Letterman
The Kazar theory is not accepted by most mainstream historians, and it is certainly not accepted by most Hungarians.
Wherever they came from, proto-Hungarians were certainly pagan (def. not Jewish) when they reached Europe.

Alex Kuli
Guest

Eva weighed in on this topic about three years ago.
http://hungarianspectrum.org/2013/01/19/khazars-hungarians-and-judaism/

Letterman
Guest
Thank you for the link to what Eva and Komoróczy said about Khazars and Magyars. They said what I say: “It is known that the Hungarian tribes at one point were under the supremacy of the Khazars. It is possible that the Hungarian chieftains followed the Khazar religious example since they adopted many Khazar customs.” and she ends to say “Whatever the case, let’s be satisfied with the likelihood that the Khazar influence on the early Hungarians also meant that high Hungarian officials converted to Judaism alongside the Khazars. I’m pretty sure that this is shocking enough to our anti-Semites.” This is what I say. Hungarian tribe came from Jewish Khazar people (not DNA, but from society) and Jewish Khazars protected Hungarians. In Carpathia, Jewish Carpathians helped Hungarians, some who follow Jewish customs, to settle. Why Hungarians hate the people who help them? Jewish people help Hungarians in Khazar kingdom and in Carpathia. Jewish people build beautiful buildings in Budapest so it can be beautiful capital. Hungarians are like a bad teenager who spits on family and wants bad friends, like Hitler. And it makes statues to leaders like Horthy and Homan who liked Hitler. Afterwards, Hungarians don’t understand why… Read more »
webber
Guest
Letterman If ancestry/language mattered so much, Poles and Russians would get along great, and so would Croats and Serbs. Anyway: Almost everything about proto-Hungarian society prior to the arrival of Hungarian tribes to Europe is speculation (no matter how skillfully it is presented). Some of that speculation is very old – it started in medieval times -, but none of it dates from the period in question. There are no records. There is no proof. For the earliest periods of Hungarian history, Komoróczy presents all theories ever advanced and not yet refuted. He himself says that the evidence he presents on this is just speculation. So, as Eva mentions, he raises the issue of Aba Sámuel’s name (Hungary’s third king – Aba was a tribal name, also spelled Obo). That Hungarians had Jewish names is hardly surprising. It is evidence of interaction with Christians, surely, or even that people were becoming Christian. Aba Sámuel came to power well after St Stephen had made the country Christian. Was the name Samuel evidence that he was of Jewish extraction? Hardly. The Jewish name Samuel is widely used among the English. Are the English named Samuel necessarily Jews? Of course not. How about… Read more »
spectator
Guest

Is there any information, if the horse was jewish or christian?

You know, it’s a rather significant information, since our (as a Hungarian, not as an Orbanist!) ancestors were riding to get to the Carpathian basin?
Just think about, how our Nazi and Arrow Cross sympathiser fellow Hungarians would feel, if it turns out (somehow,— don’t ask me, it’s theoretical!) that (even) the horse was indeed a Kazar, hence the semitic ancestry could clearly established?

How the “stripes of Árpád” would look along the star of David?

In my opinion — and it’s purely of professional/esthetic point of view — it would work just fine.
Just look at the flags of the US, or Cuba, or many others. It’s the right combination of colors.

So, get used to the idea, people, that the true ethnicity of the Hungarians indeed has some freedom of movement before it could be settled!

Even if you don’t really like it, my dear Nazi = Orbanist fellows of Hungarian origin, you’re better try to adapt to reality.

It’s hard. I know, but give it a try, will you?

Guest
@letterman December 8, 2015 at 7:45 pm You ask a question that is easy to answer. The Hungarian Catholic Church was dead against the 1867 Jewish emancipation in Hungary, and did everything it could to reverse it from the 1870s on. At the same time, the rise of secular, Hungarian nationalism- and race-based antisemitism set as its principal aim the elimination of all Jewish influence, and ultimately of all Jewish presence in Hungary, similarly to the aims of its parent antisemitic movements and parties in Austria and Bavaria. The religion-based propaganda war against Jews in Hungary by the Hungarian Catholic Church, combined with the race-based propaganda war of Hungarian nationalist antisemites then thoroughly prepared the ground for the massive brainwashing of the entire gentile population of Hungary into psychopathic levels of Jew-hatred in the Horthy era, through intense and unremitting propaganda and venom through the media, churches, schools, universities, parliament and the public services. The bitterness of two lost wars blamed on the supposed Jewish stab in the back (dolchstoss), the prominence of a tiny minority of Hungarian Jews in the Hungarian Communist Party, the red terror inflicted by the Hungarian Soviet in 1919 and by the Hungarian People’s Republic… Read more »
PALIKA
Guest
Eva, you have shown with your hard work and diligent research the true nature of present day Hungary. Also you have identified some of the reasons why the EU has not and probably will not do anything which might have the effect of achieving a change we would like. Let us assume that the EU changes direction and imposes sanctions. Would they not be counterproductive in a country where there is no meaningful opposition or sensible public debate. After the Iranian revolution my Iranian friends said the their country returned to the Middle Ages. Probably because culturally they never really grew out of if. Sadly, we should perhaps accept that overall Orban runs the country as its citizens are at least willing to accept however reluctantly. There is no meaningful opposition, not only because of Orban’s policies and politics. Are we going to educate Hungary out of its current mind set? If so, how? Assume you replace Orban. By whom? With what programme? How do you achieve the transformation? What are its aims? Worse, the Hungarians are mostly in tune with Orban? Major task. Sad reflection on the country. Most of us have perhaps given up any real hope. What… Read more »
petofi
Guest

Palika,

The worm in the ointment is the Catholic Church. Until you remove it from its role of teaching the young and setting the value system of the nation, you will never be able to remove the massive cross of self-hate and inferiority.

It has been inferiority and mortification that the Church has exploited over two thousand years to keep control of their brethren.

webber
Guest

Petofi – the worm in the ointment…
Parents of school children in Hungary have a choice whether to have their children take one class a week in ethics (erkölcstan) or religious education (hittan). It has to be one or the other. If it is religious education, it can be Catholic, Calvinist/Lutheran (the two churches traditionally accept one another’s teachers), or some other “accepted” religion (accepted by the state) IF there is enough demand and if there is a teacher prepared to present.

I don’t know what the majority of parents decide elsewhere, but in one school in Budapest I know very well the majority of parents go for the “ethics” option.

Joe Forgas, University of New South Wales, Sydney
Guest
Joe Forgas, University of New South Wales, Sydney

In order to understand why Hungarians are so willing to be misled and manipulated by this government, we need to consider the historically defined views and mental attitudes of a significant proportion of the population. The attached interview discusses some of these issues related to a wounded sense of national identity, victim mentality and a tendency to blame others for every historical failure. alas, the article is in Hungarian, but many people might be able to read it?

http://www.vasarnapihirek.hu/fokusz/forgacs_jozsef_interju_a_vezer_lenez

Guest

@Joe Forgas, University of New South Wales, Sydney
December 8, 2015 at 8:55 pm

Your comments in the Hungarian article are superbly insightful. I also saw your interview – I think it was on ATV – which was just as impressive.

Congrats and best wishes from Melbourne.

Joe Forgas, University of New South Wales, Sydney
Guest
Joe Forgas, University of New South Wales, Sydney
Thanks for your comments, Mike Balint – I am glad that you liked my attached article and also the ATV interview. After many years of living in Australia, the USA, Germany and the UK, visiting Hungary nowadays is like falling into a time warp. The main question is, why do otherwise nice and sensible people so often fall the kind of primitive and demagogic nationalistic propaganda and conspiracy theories that Fidesz offers? Partly, it seems that the ideology of the enlightenement and assertive individualism have not quite reached large sections of the population, especially outside Budapest. There is also a historical absence of a significant, independent, autonomous and self-reliant middle class. Many people are poorly informed about how Western democracy and the market economy are supposed to operate. And, Orban himself, although clearly highly intelligent, is also basically a half-educated country boy, a product of the late Kadar era, who, although he viscerally understand the Hungarian sense of grievance and victim mentality, has no real understanding about Western values and how Western democracies work. He never lived outside Hungary for any length of time, so it is not surprising that all his political instincts lean towards centralisation and state control,… Read more »
webber
Guest

Joe Forgas, you wrote of Hungarians
“Many people are poorly informed about how Western democracy and the market economy are supposed to operate.”
Perhaps because they never experienced a properly functioning market economy, only an inherently corrupt system of redistribution that they were told (and believed) is the market economy. In partial defense of my claim: the Hungarian state’s share of the GDP has never at any point since 1989 fallen below 50%.
If we accept that capitalism-socialism are a continuum, and that there are no purely socialist or capitalist countries, then one might say that all economic systems are (more or less) socialist in which the state controls/gives more than 50% of the economy.
In that definition, Hungary is (and was) socialist.
In its own definition, the current Hungarian government is nationalist.
So, you are not being pejorative, you are simply accurate when you say Hungary is national socialist.

Istvan
Guest

Webber socialist or national socialist?

Guest

@Istvan
December 9, 2015 at 7:20 am

There is no contradiction in what Webber wrote.

Socialism, as it is conventionally understood, is supposedly internationalist, while National Socialism, or Nazism, is a species of socialism that is anti-internationalist, with solidarity reserved for and between the members of the Nation (the Volk) only, rather then extended for and between all the “proletariat” and other downtrodden around the world.

And just as there was “existing socialism,” a.k.a. gulyás communism under Kádár, so it would seem that Hungarian “Christian” Nationalism is evolving into a kind of gulyás nazism under Orbán, and right under the noses of the EU.

This evolution then thoroughly prepares the political stage for the next generation of even more extreme Hungarian nazis, such as those from the ranks of today’s Jobbik, under whose tutelage Hungary could well evolve into a genuine terror state, at least for its Roma and Jews, and again right under the noses of the EU.

webber
Guest

Istvan

The correct term for the system in Hungary today is national socialism.

I would not equate it with Nazism – on that I disagree with Mike. That term is too heavy for me to use so easily.

So, I would strongly stress that I am not saying Nazi – though the German “Nationalsozialismus” carries that baggage.

National socialism is a “natural” development for a formerly communist country. It’s a relatively easy change from communist internationalism to nationalism.

P.S. Mussolini started as a socialist, and only dropped the internationalism.

Guest

Re: ‘I would not equate it with Nazism – on that I disagree with Mike. That term is too heavy for me to use so easily’

Tough perhaps right now. However, if we think of Hungary as a political chameleon well we can never ever rule things out. I’d think statistically there’s a greater probability of the country going to another ‘level’ of national socialism than democracy. Technically, the pillars of the latter have already been disturbed. And we need to remember that bellicosity is a card that can be played in more ways than one. We can perhaps call that ‘potential’ energy in the politics of Hungary.

Guest
Hungary is a Commocracy ©CharlieH A Commocracy is a nation frozen in a transitional state between an authoritarian regime and a political system that only they claim is a democracy. To be a democracy requires all of the values and elements of freedom – a free press; a free judiciary; a free population to work and express their views; freedom from poverty; a debating chamber in Parliament; an effective opposition in that Parliament and full representation of the people, including honest elections. And an open and transparent society. If any one of these is deficient – then it can arguably be called a Commocracy. Hungary is deficient in all of these. The Commocratic regime makes claims for democracy – but they know that it doesn’t conform – and corruption, for example, is a revealing measure of lack of openness. To say they ‘aspire’ to democracy is wrong. ‘Aspiring’ suggests that the regime will eventually be a democracy – but it is ‘frozen’ in a transitional state and there is no intention of embracing democratic values. The only reversal is revolution. Whilst there are others who are coming from a different direction, for example a theocracy or a dictatorship – Hungary… Read more »
Latefor
Guest

Palika said: “What are Hungarians? A rather backward, mediocre nation which has underperformed in a modern competitive world. They have a government they deserve.”

I can see that the Hungarians are already looking for a new site for another statue.
ACTION – REACTION – ACTION – REACTION

Petofi – If you remove the Catholic Church from its role, there will be NO value system left. Hungary will be morally BANKRUPT. That would please you immensely, I know.
What is your alternative? Legalized drugs and teaching them about unopposed blow jobs at public places perhaps?

webber
Guest

Latefor
Sweden, Great Britain, New Zealand, the United States, and Australia (among others) seem to have done well enough without putting the Catholic Church in a leading role.

And not all Hungarians are Catholic. There are not a few Calvinists and Lutherans, for example. I would also include Jewish Hungarians as Hungarians even after everything that was done to them by the Hungarian state under the sickening excuse that they are not Hungarian (as if that were a justification for anything), but I know a lot of people who wouldn’t include them.

Latefor
Guest

Webber – belive it or not, religious schools (Catholic and Jewish) are the most sought after by most parents in Australia.

Guest

@Latefor
December 9, 2015 at 2:32 am

Not true.

Jewish schools are sought after in Australia predominantly by families trying to remain Jewish, and in order to take advantage of networking opportunities within the Jewish communities.

Catholic schools are are sought after in Australia by families in the Catholic middle class trying to remain Catholic, and by working class Catholic families who prefer their kids to be educated in Catholic, rather than state schools.

It would of course be quite correct to claim that every religion (and ideology) does its best to brainwash its young to remain in the fold.

But it is simply stupid and ignorant to claim that “religious schools (Catholic and Jewish) are the most sought after by most parents in Australia”.

webber
Guest
Latefor I don’t know about Australia, but know that in the US the best schools are the ones most sought after, regardless of their religious leaning (or lack thereof). Public schools in the US are secular by law (Constitutional separation of church and state). If a public school in a certain district is the best school, parents from nearby districts will try to get their children into that school with all sorts of tricks (public education is free, after all). If a religious school is ranked best, then parents will try to get their children into that school regardless of their personal faith IF those parents have the money to pay school fees. So, one finds some non-Catholic children in Catholic schools, and non-Protestants in some Protestant schools, etc. Quality of education offered is what matters to most parents, not faith (which is provided at home). Before you assume something about Americans: Americans tend to be more religious than most Europeans. So: 65% of Americans say religion is important, and 39% of them regularly attend church. Only 39% of Hungarians say religion is important, and only 12% of them regularly attend church. Only 27% of Brits say religion is important,… Read more »
Member

Latefor
December 9, 2015 at 2:32 am
“belive it or not, religious schools (Catholic and Jewish) are the most sought after by most parents in Australia.”

Now, why would you say that? Where is your data coming from? Is it like a Fidesz method of data minding, like making up things as you go?

As of 2012:
government schools= 6,697
catholic (somehow subsidized)=1,713
independent (could be religious)= 1,017
total possibly religious schools= 2,730

60% of Australian children were enrolled in government run schools, 40% were enrolled in private or catholic schools. 25% who chose somehow subsidized Catholic education.

Guest

@Some1
December 9, 2015 at 7:38 am

For your information, the independent (or private) schools in Australia that you list break down into two major categories:

Exclusive grammar schools, nominally adhering to one or another mainstream Protestant denomination, where religion has become a very vague, “going through the motions” type of thing. These schools are nonetheless very strong on ethics.

2.
“Born again Christian” establishments for the Pentecostalist and Southern Baptist end of the Protestant spectrum. These schools too are strong on ethics in accordance with their lights, which are however not necessarily enlightened in matters such as abortion or immunization.

There is also a plethora of other small independents, ranging from the scientologists to the buddhists, but the numbers attending those establishments are minute in comparison to those attending the mainstream independent schools in Australia.

It needs to be borne in mind that like Scandinavians, and unlike Americans, Australians are on the whole a very kind and tolerant people, but not at all religious.

Member

@Mike Balint
December 9, 2015 at 8:34 am

I simply quoted actual data form the Australian Curriculum Assessment Authority that is readily available t anyone who actually want to use real data, and not come up with information with no relevance to reality. In the data it is not broken down what eduction is provided by the non-governemnet founded schools. I simply took the scenario that all non-government founded schools are affiliated with some religious institution. I tried to very generous to latefor, but even with that generosity I could not came even close to the BS she was talking about. Then again that is very usual for most Orban sympathizer as they well understood that their believes are facts.

I forgot the link to the data above: http://www.acara.edu.au/verve/_resources/20141219_ANR_2012_Part_9_post_EC.pdf

Member

May I suggest to remove posts or the users who continually try to sell something on this blog. This is not an advertising blog, and it is very annoying to read over and over again about some cheap item someone tries to promote here. I know that controversy sells, and that is why certain celebrities loved to run around without their panties, and they could not wait for the paparazzi to take a shot, but I think this blog is not the National Enquiry. I have the feeling some of the commenters love to stir controversy in order to draw attention to their product that otherwise would become stale.

BritinBudapest
Guest

Legalising drugs has been a huge success in Catholic Portugal, so why not? But I am also not clear on the role of the Catholic Church in Hungary – certainly there seems to be some resistance to traditional Catholic teaching and the Pope, which was highlighted during the influx of refugees and migrants into Hungary.

Guest

Latefor as usual makes the trite, vacuous comment that only a religious bigot can make.

Assuming that only religious people have morals and values.

It is actually my experience that so-called non-religious people are more intelligent; have a better integrity and a better understanding of the world.

Latefor believes in Father Christmas, the Turin Shroud, Jesus, dodgy miracles that defy the very laws that the creator – whoever she/he/it was – created in this wonderful world; not to mention the beatification of dodgy saints – even today – after supposed ‘miracles’ have occurred – which do not stand up for one nano second to proper scientific scrutiny.

Believe on, Latefor. As Petofi advises: go and play with your toys and say a few prayers – better this than more comments here.

https://youtu.be/HhGuXCuDb1U

Latefor
Guest

CharlieH said: ” Believe on, Latefor. As Petofi advises: go and play with your toys and say a few prayers – better this than more comments here.”

What an arrogance! What’s going in London? Are the public toilets closed or something?
(I hope “Robin Hood” out there is reading this.)

Guest

London Calling!

Oh! Dear! I believe that Colleen Bell, in her first major speech for Hungary earlier this year, believed that the Hungarian government would stop it.

“I also want to take this opportunity to applaud the leaders of the Hungarian government who have objected to raising a statue of Balint Homan in Szekesfehervar. His legacy as a proponent of some of the most venomous anti-Semitic legislation in the pre-war era casts a long shadow over the memory of those Hungarians victimized and killed during the Holocaust.”

Whilst they didn’t actually promise to prevent it – their half-hearted attempts will be seen as devious dissembling.

They knew all along that their master Orban would persue its erection.

More lies from the King lying toads of lying toadum.

Regards

Charlie

Guest

Spot on, dos929

Latefor
Guest

“Political Correctness is a doctrine, recently fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and promoted by a sick mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of sh@t by the clean end”.

Guest

One of the few things – very few – I agree with the Roman Catholic Church on is their condemnation of freemasonry.

Not least – they say – for their willingness to serve two masters or their sanction for expediently allowing the law to be broken.

You quote one of the most fervent followers of freemasonry.

Ignorance standing on the shoulders of ignorance steeped in ignorant ignorance.

Are you sure you don’t want to play toys & prayers?

Latefor
Guest

CharlieH – and a Devil standing on the shoulder of another DEVIL is evil disguised “picking up a piece of sh@t on a clean end.”

Guest

Before you respond……

Every protestation you make on here is slowly slowly dismantled to reveal the trite simplicity of a moron – revealing a crass ignorant fool.

You might like to consider if you have the intelligence – or intellectual vigour – to make sensible contributions to Eva’s blog?

You have thankfully stopped trying to peddle your shallow literary efforts.

However time to consider whether to disappear altogether?

Guest

Too late, it seems.

Latefor
Guest

CharlieH – Thank you for your comments. Every time you open your big, ugly mouth my book sales increase. (But you should know that!) Keep up the good work!

exTor
Guest

Come on CharlieH, you can do better.
There’s no reason to adhominem Latefor.
If you’re going to slag her, at least be a
little sophiscated about it. Words like
‘moron’ just dont cut it. For a rightwing
scumbag, sure, but not for our Melanie.

MAGYARKOZÓ

webber
Guest
Charlie H Who do you think said that silly thing about political correctness? If you think it was Truman, – look here: http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/trumanpc.asp As to what you said about freemasonry, that’s a view you share with Fascism, Nazism and Communism, because one of the first things they all did was ban freemasonry. Freemasonry was banned in Horthy’s Hungary, too. If you ask me, any group banned and persecuted by Mussolini, Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, Bela Kun, Horthy, and Rakosi can’t be all wrong. A long list of prominent Hungarian masons was recently published, and it’s an eye opener: Jews, Catholics, Calvinists – all of Hungarians’ faiths are represented in the ranks. Prominent Hungarian freemasons included: Endre Ady, the poet. Istvan Tisza, the Prime Minister. Tisza was (ultra) conservative and Ady was liberal, and they HATED each other. Just because one Freemason says something doesn’t mean the rest of them agree with it (Tisza and Ady agreed on almost nothing, except that both loved Hungary). But tell me, WHAT does Freemasonry have to do with anything here? It’s a silly club of (mostly) men who go through arcane rituals and wear ridiculous aprons. You might just as well denounce clowns (gave me… Read more »
Guest

Point taken!

I didn’t want others to have a monopoly on irrelevance!

I believed it to be attributed to him. But I agree extremely stupid!

The dialogue led me up the garden path.

webber
Guest

Latefor – that “quote” is a fake. Truman never said anything of the sort. Lots of people picked it up from the internet and think he said it. He didn’t.
Look here:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/trumanpc.asp

exTor
Guest

Nobody, least of all Latefor,
has cited HS Truman.

MAGYARKOZÓ

webber
Guest

Extor and Latefor
Latefor posted a quote, in quotation marks but without attribution. I wondered who said such a silly thing first, so I looked. That quote has been attributed to Truman wherever (else) it is cited. Nobody knows who said it. Nobody knows where it came from. Somebody with an interesting sense of humor put it up on the internet some years ago and attributed it to Truman, and since then it has been circulating under Truman’s name.

The quote is a bunch of nonsense, from start to end, but the nonsense may appear to be serious if it is attributed to some leader.

That Latefor quoted without giving the source of the quote is a bit… well… It isn’t done. Saying “I never referred to Truman” isn’t very helpful either. Who is the quote from then, Latefor?

Latefor
Guest

Webber – “That Latefor quoted without giving the source of the quote is a bit… well… It isn’t done. Saying “I never referred to Truman” isn’t very helpful either. Who is the quote from then, Latefor?”
I know it isn’t done . . .but I could NOT name the source. To be perfectly honest with you, I liked the quote so much that I just had to share it with you all.

Guest

Latefor?

When Father Christmas visits you this year to leave your pressies – make sure you get a receipt? (That’s if, or course you’be been a good girl? – Petofi & I are dying to know what toys you put on your list this year?)

Or is it Little Jesus?

http://bbj.hu/business/hungarys-tax-authority-fines-st-nicholas_108343

BritinBudapest
Guest

I think you are right on the Fidesz/Jobbik “friendship’. The many layered tragedy is not only that some people in Europe and in Hungary believe that Orban is protecting Hungary from the extremes of Jobbik, but also that people agree with the political tactics whereby Fidesz justifies becoming more right wing because it has to draw in Jobbik voters and sympathisers. Why is this an acceptable line in politics today? that its ok to be a bit fascist because you want to keep company with hard core fascists? The role of anyone opposing Jobbik is to oppose them, not to mimic them. Unless of course you have another agenda, as Fidesz clearly does.

And why does Fidesz devote all its ire and political messaging to counter the ‘liberal’ ‘western’ ‘Soros’ conspiracy against Hungary, when the ‘liberal’ opposition is all but dead? Would that they put the same effort into countering the extreme right – they are certainly capable of very effective political manoeuvering and I am sure could see Jobbik off if they chose to do that. I guess the point I am trying to make, is how do clever and politically astute people come to believe Orban’s arguments?

petofi
Guest

@Latefor

What is “an unopposed blowjob”?

What is an “opposed blowjob”?

Wow!

Latefor, what is on your reading table beside the bed?

Latefor
Guest

Petofi asked: “Latefor, what is on your reading table beside the bed?”

Hacking: Hacking Secrets, What Hackers Don’t Want You To Know, By Anonymous
The Second Term of Victor Orban: Beyond Prejudice and Enthusiasm, by John O’Sullivan
This Changes Everything, by Naomi Klein
Profit over people: Neoliberalism & Global Order, by Chomsky
The Tragedy of the European Union: Disintegration or Revival, by George Soros
The Great Divide, by Joseph Stiglitz
The Gresham Symphony, by Melanie Zuben (thanks for the opportunity, dear Eva & Petofi)

Observer
Guest

Hungary IS morally BANKRUPT. It can go lower though.

Member

@PALIKA
December 8, 2015 at 8:08 pm
I think your questions are worth to explore. What is the alternative to Orban (Fidesz) at this point, and what does it take to educate the public to grow up to the task of electing a democratic, and responsible government that is for for the 21st Century?

Zorgas
Guest

Agree completely Eva regarding the Fidesz/Jobbik coalition. However, I am beginning to wonder which is the dominant partner. Rather than attempting to coax extremists in Hungary to a more moderate position, Fidesz has been fanning the flames of extremism as if it is trying to move its base to the Jobbik position. One can easily imagine the Jobbik manifesto (http://www.jobbik.com/sites/default/files/Jobbik-RADICALCHANGE2010.pdf) as the current guideline for Fidesz.

By having Hungarian ministers and envoys shrug their shoulders and disingenuously say that the central government doesn’t support this monument to a despicable Arrow Cross supporting advocate of genocide, while at the same time funding the monument from the central treasury, the Orban government isn’t showing strength. It’s showing that it is so degraded that it has turned over domestic and foreign policy to Jobbik, as long as it gets to keep its hands on the lucre.

Karl Pfeifer
Guest

Hóman was MP of Székesfehérvár and he tried still in January 1945 as member of the Szálasi Rump Parliament to unite the extreme right. Fidesz pretends to be conservative and claims to protect “Christian” Hungary therefore; they want to erect the statue of this racist politician on the (Béla) Bartók square. Bartók wrote in a letter 1939 that he was ashamed to come from the class of educated Christians, because most of them admire the Nazis.
It is a shame that Orbán’s Hungary is since March 2015 Chairman of the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance. They should never been given this honor and I have warned at the fifth Global Forum for Combating Antisemitism in May 2015 in Jerusalem about the consequences of this.
There can be sometimes political competition between Fidesz and Jobbik, in the field of ideology there is not a big difference between the two.

dos929
Guest
Orban and the FIDESZ under his ‘leadership’ followed a very simple recipe of ‘how to steal a country’ and how to make its people to be obedient servants of the regime. First, get hold on the media. Then using all the available underhanded methods carry out a witch-hunt and character-assassination of any of the opposition members that may pose a threat, regardless of how small the perceived threat may be. Combine those two tools and create an atmosphere of fear in which there is no effective opposition by the masses, and continuing this policy you can grind down the opposition to a non-existent rival. Continue with closing down most of the democratic institutions and replace them by your own organizations manned by your own ‘yes-men’, and change the laws and regulations to suit your own ‘sick agenda’. If you have to (yes, they had to…) grab the judiciary system as well, and change the constitution without having a referendum or consulting any of the country’s learned legal experts… In the meantime grab (= steal) all the economic means by which the circle is closed towards the totalitarian regime in which the ordinary citizens have no real say, the opposition is… Read more »
Guest

Spot on dos929

Member

True to the last word. There are some who believes OV can be removed by the means of elections. No way.

exTor
Guest

http://hungarianspectrum.org/2015/12/08/the-case-of-the-balint-homan-statue-from-a-different-angle/#comment-107407
… Later pronounces on the Catholic Church …

Attendant to her misspelling of ‘blowjob’, Latefor posits the assumed necessity of the Catholic Church –presumably other Churches need not apply– as the moral underpinning of society.

Let us forget the current reality of the Hungarian Roman Catholic Church, which went out of its way NOT –let me stress NOT !!!– to morally and physically assist –a blatant suckup to Fidesz– in the refugee situation that flowed through Hungary this summer.

Morality is a cultural accretion. Churches are part of cultures, in Europe and elsewhere, however the Church has never been the absolute sun of society around which everyone dutifully orbits.

Morality exists apart from the vote of religion.
We dont need Godists to run our lives.
We dont live in a Godist da vida.

MAGYARKOZÓ [XT

webber
Guest

Extor
I am not Catholic, but I very much appreciate what this Pope has said about refugees and the poor.

exTor
Guest

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/hungarian-bishop-says-pope-is-wrong-about-refugees/2015/09/07/fcba72e6-558a-11e5-9f54-1ea23f6e02f3_story.html

What the Pope said is an evident contrast to the Hungarian Church, which (in the body of Bishop László Kiss-Rigó [Les LittleThrush (birdbrain ???)]) justified its nonhelp by saying that the Pope “doesn’t know the situation”.

But this is old news.

MAGYARKOZÓ

petofi
Guest

@exTor

“…the pope doesn’t know the situation…”–Bishop of Hungary

I thought the Pope was infallible…

I guess that makes the good Bishop, infallibly infallible…

Hungaricum.

Hungarians know more; Hungarians know better; Hungarians are the very pinnacle of Genius…(to other Hungarians).

Guest
@webber December 9, 2015 at 4:14 am What the Pope, as the opinion leader of Catholics world-wide, has said about refugees, the poor, pedophile abuses or climate change, is indeed highly commendable, though some of his other pronouncements, such as those about the market economy, make very little sense, as does his silence on matters impinging on fundamental doctrinal matters, such as population planning and control, or the status and role of gays and women in the Church. I think that I was around seven years old in Grade 1, when as a good little Catholic, I had to “write up” my sins on a slip of paper before going to First Communion in the Bazilika in Budapest. Unfortunately, I somehow lost that slip of paper on the way, and when I fronted the Father in the confessional, I tearfully declared that “Father, I lost my sins”, which then became the subject of much mirth among all present in the cathedral. After that, I had a thorough exposure to communist ideology, unfortunately at the wrong end of the stick, as a bad “káder” (social undesirable), having come from a middle class Jewish family pretending hard to be not Jewish in… Read more »
webber
Guest
Mike Balint One of the first, and perhaps the most vital liberties is the right to a free conscience – to believe what one wishes without abuse (as long as those beliefs don’t include harming others). Without that liberty – the liberty to have or not to have whatever faith one wishes, to think what one thinks -, all other liberties fall by the wayside. I don’t think it is helpful to that liberty to claim that people who believe this or that organized religion are deluded, or to denigrate them in any way. I think denigrating the faithful, ultimately, may lead to a degradation of all our liberties – and I think this is what some misunderstand, and where some (followers of Richard Dawkins, for example) have gone too far. By all means, denounce those who do evil regardless of their faith. Denounce those who do evil in the name of faith. Denounce evil acts wherever you see them. Proclaim your belief that all beliefs are wrong if you like. But please don’t suggest that others with faith are mentally ill (Michelangelo? Boticceli? Mentally ill? Perhaps. I wish I had their illness). I think it is best to leave… Read more »
Guest
@webber December 9, 2015 at 6:21 am You know Webber, when one has been through as many belief systems as I have (and I desisted from boring the readers with accounts of any of my further forays into various other belief systems), one can get pretty jaundiced about the fundamental nature of belief systems themselves. Yes, freedom of belief is a fundamental tenet of liberty, but only as long as no one is trying to force his or her belief on anyone else. Thus, a person is free to believe that s/he is Napoleon or the Virgin Mary; that is his/her business. I may look upon this belief as a mental aberration, but as long as s/he does not expect me or force me to act in proper deference to his/her delusion, I am perfectly fine with it. Now, I really did not mean to offend anyone with what I wrote, and I did say quite explicitly that belief systems can be great motivators for the good; Michaelangelo and Leonardo da Vinci are immortal examples of this. But belief systems have also proved to be, and are still proving to be, the greatest motivators for war, torture, terror, and generally… Read more »
Member

I like your approach. I do belive likewise. Though a beliver I meet a lot of preconceptions. We should really respect each other. But anyway I like Mike Balint.

Istvan
Guest

Mike your comment on the number of Arrow Cross types who effectively became refugees post WWII and eventually slipped into the USA, Australia, and other countries often with the assistance of the Church is valued by me. Its a reality I have often posted on, but is rarely discussed in our community. Its a real stain on Hungarian Catholicism especially here in the USA. Even the children of former Arrow Cross members who are now in their 60s and 70s operate in denial of that reality here in Chicago. The grandchildren likely do not even know the history of their grandfathers.

Guest

@Istvan
December 9, 2015 at 8:29 am

Yeah, it was quite an experience living cheek by jowl with those former Arrow Cross men for six months as a 14 years old unaccompanied minor pretending to be a Catholic, but nonetheless regarded as a Jew by those nasty bastards.

Apart from their continuous sly antisemitic insults during the day, they would go out every night to a nearby pub to get dead drunk (I have no idea where they got the money from, to pay for that), then they would return late in the evening howling, yelling and screaming antisemitic obscenities and curses, until in the end almost all Jews in the camp (which was actually an Italian holiday resort in the Alps) decided to take up the Red Cross offer and transfer to an all-Jewish camp near Venice.

I stayed, of course, because at the time I regarded Jewishness as something to be ashamed of, and wanted nothing to do with the Jews who were transferring to the other place, despite the horror of living among former Arrow Cross members.

Well, that was a lifetime ago. How things change, don’t they?

petofi
Guest

@Istvan

re: grandchildren don’t know their grandparents

Go rent the video of the film, “The Music Box”.

Guest
Re: ‘Morality is a cultural accretion. Churches are part of cultures, in Europe and elsewhere, however the Church has never been the absolute sun of society around which everyone dutifully orbits. Morality exists apart from the vote of religion. We dont need Godists to run our lives. We dont live in a Godist da vida’ Just a comment to extor’s points. We can see how far we have come from say the Middle Ages and early Christendom where the Church is certainly not the ‘absolute sun of society around which everyone dutifully orbits’ in Hungarian society. Crazy thing about all this is that the farther away we get from the medieval era the Church itself becomes more and more a dutiful vassal to the secular state. She indeed gives great fealty to the ‘villain’. That is bad but certainly not as a bad as showing a great moral abdication of her role in Hungarian society. The Pope must lament this indeed if he expects the ‘religious state’ to direct itself in opposition to the secular one in areas of spiritual and moral sustenance when it comes to living life in Hungary. I know religion as an institution appears to be… Read more »
Ernő Babossy
Guest
Professor Bálint Hóman was a nice, gentle person. I know this firsthand because my grandmother told me so, she knew him personally. I agree that he was a big time anti-semite but he was otherwise a well-meaning conservative man. Is anti-semitism still really such a big issue? Nobody is spotless or perfect. We are all sinners. We need real Hungarian heroes and he was one. After so many years we have to forgive Professor Hóman and embrace his love of Hungary. Luckily for us Hungarians Prime Minister Viktor Orban always supported good, Hungarian causes. We can always rely on him. He did not disappoint and funded the statute project too. The Jobbik party is full of young hotshots but they can’t deliver, only Orban Viktor can and so we must be thankful for him. Of course Viktor Orban is more diplomatic with Jews like the billionaire Ronald Lauder or when he is abroad. But that’s OK, he is a great tactician and politician, he must be a bit vague, he handles Jews well. Still he almost always gets what he wants, he even wins over the usually clever Jews too. At home here in Hungary we all know what we… Read more »
webber
Guest
Ernő Barbassy Hitler was very nice to children and liked dogs. I know this because I have seen pictures and short films of him being kind to children and animals. People who met Mussolini said he was always good company, and a terrific conversationalist. Lenin was very charismatic. Stalin had interesting eyes. Surely being “nice” isn’t sufficient reason to erect a statue to someone. If it were, there would be lots of statues of my brother all over the place! In addition the good qualities you listed, and some you didn’t (he was an excellent historian, for example), Bálint Hóman helped the Arrow Cross government and the German occupiers of Hungary. He also actively disseminated racial hatred, through Hungarian schools and a curriculum which he based in part on the German curriculum (I can direct you to sources on this if you doubt it). There is no justification whatsoever for a statue to Hóman. If there were, there might just as well be a statue to István Dobi, an alcoholic peasant who wrote interesting memoirs, who was the President of Hungary (1948-1952), and who actively assisted the communist takeover I hope there will never be a statue to Dobi in… Read more »
Guest

My ‘wind-up’ detector is bristling with the Ernő Babossy post.

Guest

Ernő Babossy
December 9, 2015 at 5:08 am

You are pulling our legs, aren’t you, “Ernő”?

if this is a send-up of the mentality of the average Hungarian, it is very good!

If not, I would suggest you urgently check in for some psychiatric care.

Member

Clean off this blog.

Latefor
Guest

Weber – I never refered to Truman.

webber
Guest

OT
Another sign of economic trouble: A “mysterious” foreign company which does not have a single employee and is not registered in Hungary has, according to the Hungarian tax office, paid 62 billion forints in tax in Hungary.
Now why do I suspect this “foreign company” is actually the government putting money from one pocket into another to cover a hole in finances?
Story here:
http://index.hu/gazdasag/ado_es_koltsegvetes/2015/12/09/rejtelyes_adozo_tomte_ki_az_allamot/

Bububu
Guest

Could this corporation have something to do with Matolcsy’s privatized funds? Matolcsy privatized at least a billion euros (but perhaps the double of that amount) and he could very easily have leaked 60bn into the budget via some special purpose vehicle.

Note that if the legal structure is legit (and I’m even guessing well-connected international lawyers gave legal opinions to that effect) then the EU can’t do anything.

It’s very clear that these private-law based foundations (which are formally separate from the state, but effectively controlled by Orban) use those billions originating from the Central Bank partly in order to finance the government (which is prohibited).

But if the EU couldn’t catch the scheme even if when the foundations purchased government bonds then with this corporate tax gimmick, adding another layer of complexity, the EU is even more helpless.

Fidesz is a party of lawyers – they handle the paperwork well, the EU can’t do shit.

The Greeks were amateurs, the Fidesz boys are pros. All is legal. Of course the numbers are all fake but it is in the interest of the market as well as the EU to accept those numbers. It is in everybody’s interest to keep pretending that all is well.

webber
Guest

…if the legal structure is legit …

Bububu
If the legal structure were legit, why would they hide it by pretending it’s a foreign company? OF COURSE it’s not legit!!!

And if these Fidesz people are such great lawyers, how is it that they keep losing case after case in Brussels? Can you explain that?

It took decades to uncover Greek fraud, and the Greek government did it themselves – Brussels didn’t reveal it. By contrast, Brussels has already caught a lot of Hungarian stuff.

I’d say the Hungarian govt. look like a bunch of rank amateurs compared to the Greeks.

Completely pathetic amateurs, who only know how to shout convincingly in Hungarian. Nobody else in all of Europe is buying the b.s.

Funny, though, that you brought up Greece – that didn’t turn out so well, did it?
So, you think Hungary is doing better than Greece at hiding the real problems (though the evidence is to the contrary). Assuming you are right (you aren’t), how do you think that is going to turn out? If you love Hungary, you had better pray that the government’s lies are revealed sooner rather than later. The later they are revealed, the worse things will be.

petofi
Guest

@webber

re: Bruxelles not ‘seeing’…

Consider for a moment that Orban WANTS everything to be seen….

juicyjuice
Guest

Fidesz – after a year and a half into the present election cycle – is leading in the polls like never before, it’s simply unprecedented in history.

People can’t have enough of Orban and Fidesz.

Almost 3/4 of the active voters demand Fidesz/Jobbik.

Is so much love even possible? It is real, I can feel it on the streets.

People at this blog are critical of the government but the average people of Hungary are shiny happy and just love the government. They don’t care about the media circus about leaving doctors and the coke sniffing Habony. It’s all a show. The people know that Fidesz is defending them no matter what, so it’s the best choice, and luckily the boys can also govern.

The people of Hungary want the government to up the ante, to work even harder, to increase fervor further lest the communists return. It’s do or die time as the fate of the nation hangs in the balance. Victory is close and real.

http://444.hu/2015/12/09/irgalmatlan-elonnyel-vezet-a-fidesz

webber
Guest

juicyjuice
And you believe those polls?
May I ask why?
Polls showed something similar before the last mid-term elections, and Fidesz lost every one of those.

If the polls are right, how was that possible? Hmm?

Could it be that people are now lying to the pollsters, juicyjuice? Wonder why? Hmmm? Why wouldn’t people want to say whom they support, if they don’t happen to support Fidesz or Jobbbik? What do you think?

(Folks, again we see that 444 is now a Fidesz-mouthpiece – why they bothered to create 888 I do not know).

Member

I believe it. After destroying all balance, sending out false data and information to the people, lying to the Hungarian population 24/7, why wouldn’t they think Fidesz is the best. RBA simply doing a great job, just like Mussolini and others did in that past. Mostly brain dead people are buying into the propaganda even when they do not receive their paycheques, even when hospitals have to shot down on operations as the doctors resign by the dozens, and even when Fidesz avoids any actually useful consultation with anyone.
Doe this make them the choice of the people? Nope. This makes them a choice for whatever they are not. They are a fraud, they deceive the public, and should be in jail, just like Pal Schmitt their first choice for moral. Those who supported them are either morally or otherwise corrupt, or totally uninformed.

petofi
Guest

@juiceyjuice

re: “…lest the communists return…”

Schmuck!
What is being indebted to Putin’s Russia to the tune of 30 billion euros mean?
Isn’t that the return of ‘communists’?

Idiot.

spectator
Guest

You don’t mean that besides the presently ruling communists, do you?
Or you really do?

Why don’t you just check the facts before posting?

The Hungarian government consist more “communists” than before!
(I have a personal problem with the definition, but never mind.)

Orbán & Co indeed pretty much following the doctrines, let alone they altered quite many of the definitions as well. (You know, the words means totally different in Hungary than anywhere else on the planet!!)

For example, in Orbanistan (maiden name Hungary) the word “democracy” means that the majority rules. Everywhere else the political party when only the majorities opinion accepted, called bolsheviks. (большевики)

What a friggin’ coincidence!

We all heard the word before, haven’t we? Nevertheless, it seems like all but forgotten.

Orbán rules, children, and he decides what means what!

We’re talking about the country of (formerly known) Hungary, after all!!
Remember, people, will you?

Guest

@spectator
December 9, 2015 at 5:06 pm

Hi “spectator”!

Very funny and spot on.

Only one little problem re the bolsheviks.

They were actually always in the minority before the October revolution, except at one of their joint conferences with their social democratic opponents, where they managed to get a majority by some fluke.

From then on they called themselves bolsheviks (majority), their opponents mensheviks (minority), regardless of the fact that the so-called mensheviks always remained in the majority subsequent to that one occassion.

And after the bolshies got permanently into power following the communist revolution in Russia, they were always a minority holding onto power by force and terror right until their demise with the collapse of the Soviet empire some seven decades later.

And by the way, the foremost distinguishing characteristic of a liberal democracy is the respect for and protection accorded to minority rights, opinions and attitudes, as long as those rights, opinions and attitudes do not harm others.

And this is precisely what Orbán and his mafia trample under foot each and every day.

spectator
Guest

Thank you for the response Mike!

So, the new version would be something like “the opinion of those who call themselves ‘majority’ rules..”
As you explained:
“They were actually always in the minority before the October revolution, except at one of their joint conferences with their social democratic opponents, where they managed to get a majority by some fluke.”
Now, why this part keep nagging my déjà vu meter, oh why..?

Member

Just clean off! Once again: clean off!

lap
Guest

Bipartizan fun-having.

Janos Tobias (party chairman of MSZP) duly loughs at Peter Szijjarto’s jokes. Peter Medgyessy is happy as a clam.

http://magyarnarancs.hu/belpol/ez-maga-a-csoda-egyutt-unnepelt-levai-aniko-hajdu-janos-es-tobias-jozsef-97517

Gardonista
Guest

I shared a link to Eva’s article with a Chabad (a branch of Orthodox Judaism) friend of mine. We are quite blunt in our discussions, and remain close, but I am appalled by his response to me regarding Hungary:

“I judge the government based on their action. Hungary is from the best friends Israel has in Europe. They even announced that they won’t participate in the racist BDS labeling. Jews are treated well and the government is spending considerable resources to rebuild Jewish sites destroyed during the war.”

Ugh, right wing Jews will sell off other Jews for a few pengö.

ukaz
Guest

According to the most recent ukaz, Hungarian state media must not any longer refer to Marine Le Pen as extreme right-wing.

From now on, Front National is simply a right wing party.

http://444.hu/2015/12/09/az-mti-ben-tobbet-nem-lehet-szelsojobboldalinak-nevezni-a-le-pen-fele-nemzeti-frontot

Turbulencia
Guest

Orban loves nothing more than when liberal jews complain. This means he does something right. He would do it just for the heck of it.

However, with Hóman the issue is different.

Hóman was a steadfast supporter of the 2nd WW (especially on the side of Germany), the deportations (ie. extermination of Jewish Hungarians) and of the deranged Ferenc Szálasi.

Hóman was a man of principles and Orban values such a man.

Orban may or may not be an anti-semite but he just loves the arrow-cross people. Sure, they were a bit out there but – no one can deny that – they wanted Hungary only good, they were nice, righteous Hungarians, who made some bad decisions. Their methods may not have been entirely politically correct, but as they say in war and in love everything is fair.

Anyway, Orban decided and the statute will stand.

Case closed.

Life goes on.

The future belongs to Orban and Hóman.

spectator
Guest

Eva, totally OT, but interesting (to me, at least) question:
Since as today your site using the so called “canvas fingerprinting’ basically for to identify users.
(Not really by name — although it’s possible, but behaviour and surfing patterns. Are you aware of it, or it’s something totally new?
Is this something what a harmless individual klick/visitor counting, or something else, what I wouldn’t even speculate about?

I’m here, and I don’t give a flying f**ck about who knows what about my presence, but it’s still an open question.

Sorry to bother, but you ought to know.

Member

@spectator: Can you expand on this? When did this start?

For everyone, please install
https://getadblock.com/share/
https://adblockplus.org
or a paid but a very strong safety version you can install https://www.abine.com/index.html

spectator
Guest

I’ve experienced first time today.

I have a plugin in my browser which informs me if the page has some kind of script embedded, and let me decide, if I would allow if it runs. Some of them is needed (Required, jQuery, for one) and many what I don’t like to prowl around on wish in my machine.
It’s called ‘JS Blocker’ as is in JavaScript.
If you intended to use fully – as I do – I’d recommend to sponsor the guy with a few bucks who made it. It’s worth every penny – in my opinion. Takes some time to get used to it, but I haven’t seen anything better of it’s kind.

trackback

[…] In my last post on the Hóman case I explained that although it was a so-called independent foundation that came up with the idea of erecting a statue of Hóman, this foundation had received grants from the Orbán government, directly or indirectly, from its very inception. The foundation’s initiative was supported by the mayor and the Fidesz-majority city council, which was most likely also responsible for securing a 15 million forint grant from the ministry of justice specifically allocated for the statue. It had to be known, if not in Székesfehérvár certainly in Budapest, that such a move would be contentious. Yet the Orbán government decided to fund the project. […]

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