The homeland needs more babies

I just learned that there is a group of economists who are convinced that opening borders all over the world and thus allowing the free flow of people would have immense benefit to mankind. For instance, Bryan Caplan, professor of economics at George Mason University, claims that such an open-border policy would double the world’s GDP. The website Open Borders offers evidence that immigration for highly developed countries is beneficial, especially if the given country’s birthrate is low. This is certainly the case in Germany where, according to the Statistisches Bundesamt, in order to sustain the present industrial capacity and living standards the country would need about 6 million immigrants between now and 2060. The situation is somewhat similar in the United States where the birthrate has been falling year after year, although it is not as bad as in Germany or for that matter in Hungary. In the United States the current fertility rate is 1.87 per woman and in Canada 1.61. In Germany it is 1.38 and in Hungary 1.34.

Of these four countries it is only Hungary that steadfastly refuses to even consider the possibility of accepting any newcomers. Germany, which at the moment is taking care of almost one million refugees, in the past few years has quietly settled millions of foreigners, among them close to 200,000 Hungarians, more than 500,000 Poles, over 100,000 Syrians, close to 100,000 Iraqis, and 75,000 Afghans. The United States opens its doors to close to a million immigrants every year. As for Canada, papers reported today that Canada is prepared to settle 50,000 Syrians by the end of next year. Germany will take most of the asylum-seekers but wants signs of solidarity from the other member states of the European Union and therefore asks them to accept a relatively small number of refugees. The four Visegrád countries are balking at this request.

In the last few days Hungarian papers were full of stories about László Kövér’s speech at the Fidesz Congress on the duty of women to produce grandchildren for him and others of his generation. Soon enough came the outrageous remarks of the pop singer Ákos, who is a faithful promoter of Viktor Orbán’s regime. Ákos in an interview pretty well repeated what Kövér had to say about women. Their primary role is to produce babies. For good measure he added that it is not “their task to make as much money as men do.”

Kövér’s speech and Ákos’s interview were ill-conceived first stabs at introducing the Hungarian government’s new nationwide propaganda campaign that hopes to boost the country’s miserably low fertility rate. The underlying message is: “We’ve saved you from these Muslim hordes but you, for your part, must have many more children.” According to Katalin Novák, undersecretary in charge of family affairs in the ministry of human resources, the demographic problems of Hungary could be solved if every Hungarian family would produce just one additional child.

The government realizes that, given the low wages, the general housing shortage, the high price of apartments and the small sizes of the existing units, few families will embark on having two or three children. In the last few days all sorts of vague promises were made about lowering the VAT on housing construction from 27% to 5%, but details are missing. No one knows what part of the construction would benefit from the drastic lowering of the tax. In addition, the government promised to give 10 million forints gratis to families who commit to having three children within ten years. These people would also receive a loan of up to 10 million forints with a low interest rate to buy an apartment in a newly constructed building. Although we know few details, critics point out that 10 million for a brand new apartment is peanuts and thus only the better-off families would benefit from the government largess, most likely the ones who don’t really need it.

An ideal Hungarian family

An ideal Hungarian family

Sometime in May we learned that Hungary’s population was continuing to shrink. The equivalent of a smaller town had disappeared within one year. In today’s papers one can find new data on the subject. It is true that 0.5% more children were born between January and October, but the number of deaths rose by 5.5% during the same period. Thus, another middle-sized town disappeared. To be precise, 33,291 people.

How effective the new government measures will be only time will tell, but I’m not optimistic. In fact, I have the feeling that even if there are some small demographic improvements, they will not be nearly enough to replenish the population, which has been decreasing steadily ever since the 1970s. I also predict that emigration will accelerate for at least two reasons: David Cameron’s threats of discriminatory measures against immigrants from other EU countries and the Syrian, Iraqi, and Afghan immigration to Germany. Would-be emigrants heading to the United Kingdom may think that they should go now since no one knows what kinds of new restrictions Cameron’s government will come out with in the next few months. As for Germany, at the moment job opportunities, especially for blue collar workers and unskilled labor, are plentiful, but who knows what will happen once the newcomers are ready to join the workforce. Mind you, it is possible that the Syrian refugees are better educated than the East Europeans working in Western Europe. According to one poll, 86% of Syrian refugees attended high school or university. Of these people 16% are students and 4-5% of them are doctors or pharmacists.

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Member

I think that Orban dictatorship should focus on putting more money into education, healthcare, and the lowering of taxes versus stadiums, and bonuses for babies. The day is coming when Hungarian women will have no doctors in the hospitals waiting for them to give birth. The healthcare in Hungary is deteriorating, doctors are leaving the country by dozens each week, hospitals are falling apart, wages do not keep up with inflation.
http://www.168ora.hu/itthon/eleguk-lett-orvosoknak-nincs-mar-mire-varni-egeszsegugyben-141677.html
Some retirees went to Strasburg to demand their retirement income, and they won, likely Orban have to pay out milliards very soon.
http://index.hu/gazdasag/ado_es_koltsegvetes/2015/12/21/nyugdij/
It is predicted that in ten years the Hungarian retirement balance will become negative. Meaning that there will be more money to be paid out that how much money will be coming in.
http://index.hu/gazdasag/2015/12/16/megmondtak_mikorra_fog_megrogyni_a_magyar_nyugdijrendszer/

Guest

There are already many stories in our German media about refugees from all over the world who found jobs which no German wants – like a baker or generally manual jobs …
Just as 40/50 years ago workers from Southern Europe were “imported” as builders and Turkish workers for the garbage collection.
Some of their children of course made it big – Cem Özdemir, one of the bosses of the Green party is an example.
And one of the docs in the neighbouring village is an Egyptian.

So I’m sure Germany will manage – Hungary on the other hand?

On the other hand:

Do we really need more people? maybe more work will be done by robots in a few years, so who really knows what the future may bring?

Having been an avid reader of science fiction for 60 years (!) I know one thing:
The future will look different from what we expect and predict!

spectator
Guest

I guess that Hungary only a few steps away to see the “Vikto Orbán National Fertility Centers” to emerge.
And I’m not (totally) kidding.
If someone in my age — or beyond — will remembers Anna Ratkó.

If you’re able to take away the wrapping — I mean, if you aren’t inclined to look at it from a certain politically influenced point of view — you’ll certainly find parallels with the present political aim, and not for their favour, for sure.

“Be fruitful and multiply” — said God, and his (there is no feminism involved, sorry!) earthly representatives (Hungarians, that is!) — will ensure (enforce?) that his (?) will be met, whatever comes.

As things developing I wouldn’t be all that surprised if the totally devoted supporters would be able to partake the “Ultimate Ornanist Mission”— as some valued price — as to receive the blessing how Mr.Simicska defined it.

Remember:“Be fruitful and multiply” — if the Great Leader demands it!
No hesitation accepted!
Go for it, girls, gals, women and any capable female of the Planet!
Do something for the Orbanist Hungary!
Make love!
Fu°k them hard!

Latefor
Guest

Maybe Orban should go the more modern/acceptable way: create a super race in a test tube, twenty at a time, a whole litter of it, who could design brilliant robots to perform the manual jobs etc. Forget about the “make love , F them hard” part.
Super Hungarians are being created as we speak. Why do you think the borders are closed?

spectator
Guest
@Mel — It would need at least a human, let alone the ‘super’… You see, my biggest problem with the aforementioned creature is his low level of intellect and even lower level of culture. I can deal with adversaries — hey, I enjoy to converse with you — if there is a chance of worthy response, or at least understanding. If the “super race” would — even in color or size — resemble to Orbán, the Hungarians are screwed for good. I know that you value his “nationalist” standpoint, but let me tell you, he would (he will, in short) change at the moment when something else seem to be more favourable, As a matter of fact I have no problem with his turncoat character, (he can be just about whatever in my point of view, couldn’t care less) ,I just amazed that his worshippers explain to themselves every time that just why the “change” is right! Good luck! In your shoes I would pray that he’d hold his opinion at least as long as the next election, or the upcoming statement regarding the common EU standpoint. I would’t bet on that he will dare to move away from the… Read more »
Latefor
Guest
@ Spectator – Orban seems like a strong leader, at least from the “ass end of the world”. He has a clear vision for Hungary and nothing and nobody will convince him re: political correctness. He knows that ” sh*t cannot be picked up by a clean end.” I like that! Besides, he’s very handsome (trust me, women find him attractive and as you know, power is also an aphrodisiac . . . ok . . ok . . . he could be a bit talller, but he is not a contender for Mr Universe!) As far as my praying is concerned, I know that Christianity is struggling against tremendous pressures (not the first time in history). Most critiques underestimate the power of prayer (meditation) and besides, churches are beautiful and inviting inside. They provide a place to escape from all the madness some of the so-called “politically correct” do-gooders created for us in the last 30 plus years. The more stress governments put on people, the stronger the churches will become. They provide shelter from the madness. And they can rule again as long as they can restore some basic balance what people desperately crave. As you all know,… Read more »
Guest

If you really think O has a “clear vision” than you are obviously a fruitcake!
This guy has changed his opinions so often – he’s just an opportunist …comment image

spectator
Guest

Thanks for the explanation!

However, when I read: “We all need to return to basic human values. We all need a hero!” I started to wonder if you just pulling my leg, or it is because you look at things from ‘down under’ and have a somehow reversed perspective.
It may even warrant for the “handsome” part, provided some giant has a hand big enough for his bulk…

I’ve actually tried quite hard to come up with some “basic human value” – in wain. Being pretty much “basic” might even work, but the rest is so far out that practically invisible for naked eyes, I’m afraid. Or just as close as the rest of him, only the size of those “human values” cause the optical illusion being far, far away..?

Size matters, you see.
The size of ones “humanity”, that is.

Istvan
Guest
Eva somehow I suspect if the immigrants trying to get into Hungary were white suburban conservative Christian Americans fleeing an interracial United States with their money for the security of an overwhelmingly white Hungary Kover would have no problem with it. I suspect if Hungary marketed itself to the white conservative community here in the USA there might be a few takers, after all if they can support Trump why not Orban. Meanwhile the New York Times in a major article yesterday by Andrew Higgins came very close to declaring PM Orban the winner in the EU’s internal refugee wars between its members. The article was titled “Hungary’s Migrant Stance, Once Denounced, Gains Some Acceptance.” Higgins is a Pulitzer Prize award winner and is a reporter whose articles are regularly read by the foreign policy establishment in the USA. Probably most disturbing for many Hungarians critical of Fidesz are the comments by the novelist György Konrád. Here is the section of the article relating to Mr. Konrád: I agree with Konrad, Orban was correct that the dynamics of the refugee crisis were much deeper than Merkel tried to sell to the EU. But really how it is possible that Orban… Read more »
Istvan
Guest

sorry the section did not reproduce, go to the link to see it.

spectator
Guest

Istvan, being “correct” didn’t really need any orbanist ‘insight’ – it’s only the way of things developing.
Anyone with a half brain would be able to see it.
The question was/is(?), what are you going to do about it?

And here comes the factor of civilisation into the picture:
Either you react as a civilised human being, or you react as an “orbán” and that’s about your entire range of choices — if you are a Hungarian in Hungary, that is.

From here you may proceed on your will.
However, not, on any circumstances you’d be able to avoid to answer.
To yourself.
And that’s bout it.

Guest

You know as far as Orban being ‘right’ Higgins noted that this open support came from ‘Europe’s political fringe’ namely the anti-Semites and those with ‘conspiracy theories tinged with racism’. Let’s see how close he’ll ride that and want to handle the stink.

Guest

But then fleeing to “white” Hungary those people would encounter the Roma – perfect for all their prejudices against “coloured people”?

Guest

Fascinating that a failed state has almost managed to provide an education to more than 8 out of 10 Syrians. Looks as if they are ahead of the Hungarian curve when it comes to the future of their demographics. Unfortunately for the Syrians their abject politics within the country mitigates any gain in seeing the fruits of that development.

And if the ideal Hungarian family is supposedly 5 kids, I’d think somebody is frankly smoking crack. How could a family support the needs of those mouths to feed? At times I think the government thinks Hungary is one great big expansive ‘Balaton’ where the kids are near the shore in rowboats but they’ll never get out into the farther parts of the lake. It’s a scene called into mind as simply watching a ‘failure to launch’. The government really is whistling in the wind when it comes to the business of Hungarian procreation.

Member
Our Inner Orban I’m stupefied by the superficiality of those who are now declaring that “Orban was right,” and even praising him for his foresight. It takes no insight whatsoever to see that a large influx of muslim immigrants carries some risk. So does a large influx of any kind of immigrant. The question is: How much risk? Nothing we do — or don’t do — carries zero risk. And then there’s the humanitarian question: Giving in to our uncharitable impulses carries risk too. People are very capricious about how they reckon risk. The very same people in the US who want to ban muslim immigrants because of the risk refuse to consider banning personal firearms, despite the glaringly obvious fact that they generate more bloodshed in the US than muslims. Nor does it take any insight to play up people’s irrational fears and hatreds; it just takes utter lack of scruple. While we celebrate Orban as the prophet of the muslim immigration menace, let’s remember that in the many months preceding the major wave of asylum-seekers, when it was just looming, visibly, but not yet unmanageable, Orban was busy implementing a nation-wide hate and fear campaign rather than preparing… Read more »
spectator
Guest

“Orban was right,”

You’d certainly mean that the Orbanian bullshit hit home finally..?
Of course, you don’t! No sane person ever will!

Just think about if everyone implemented the Orbanian doctrine!
We all know that the solution isn’t barbed wire or a complete lockdown, but rather the humane treatment of the people coming and help to solve the problems at home.

And there is no other kind of solution, as it turned out.
But then again: who’s really cares?

BigTime
Guest

Orban won again. Big time as he usually does.

From now on the Hungarian government has a veto right over the distribution of the Norwegian funds.

As was expected the well-fed Westerners were going to give in.

The Norwegians accepted that an autocrat should have a veto right.

Ökotárs is out of the picture, they’re goners.

In the new era Lazar calls the shots. Liberals can suck it up.

No wonder the deal wasn’t hailed as a great victory over the Orban-dictatorship. Cos it wasn’t. ű

Even Westerners must respect the will of the ruler and they do.

And people constantly want to deny the genious of Orban and Lazar. They push down every well-fed, clueless, latte-sipping, gender-conscious Western diplomat/bureaucrat.

http://444.hu/2015/12/22/ujabb-reszlet-a-titkos-alkurol-a-norvegok-elengedtek-az-okotars-kezet

petofi
Guest

@Bigtime

Yes, Orban is a ‘winner’ presently (and anon), but the citizenry are not.
But you, like others, need someone to worship. Stalin said it best: “Can I help it if my people want a God?”

Hungarians have a myriad of psychological problems, not to mention
a rotten education; and the religious dominance of a Catholic church that wants the plebeians to remain just that.

And, Bigtime, read my lips: Lazar is a goner. Turning on the Roma leader was a no-no. Orban is just waiting for the right time to lower the boom on Lazar. The heir-apparent is Rogan.

Member

I guess zou forgot to read the small print. Correction: Your handlers forget to provide you with the small print, but then again they asked the Norwegians for secrecy.

It is Norway that will choose who distributes the money. (Hungary have a right to veto.)
Hungary will step away from the senseless investigations of the civil organizations.
Hungary will give back all tax numbers.
Orban LOST! Thank goodness! They only able to veto!! Congratulation to Orban, Lazar, and BigTime who are happy to see millions spent on senseless accusations, trials, etc. and now they only achievement is that they can veto!
Yeah, Hungary after all did not loose wwi either. They did not amalgamate the whole country, only took some parts away.

Bárányka
Guest
Some1: “It is Norway that will choose who distributes the money. (Hungary have a right to veto.)” Muhahahahaha. You are forgiven for not getting the point. You are not a lawyer and you haven’t ever negotiated a veto right. But Fideszniks are lawyers and know how a veto right works. Incidentally this is why non-lawyer leftists could never figure out Fidesz and will always lose out. They just can’t comprehend the system. Yes, Norway will choose. The choice (made already in the spirit of compromise) will be rejected out of hand. Why? Because this how you negotiate, you reject the first offer. After all, you have a veto. Then Norway will choose another one (probably even less ‘liberal’ than its first choice). It will be rejected again. Why? Because this how you negotiate, you create some tension. By that time a few month will have passed. No decisions, no disbursements. So then at one point the Norwegians will – through a back channel – will ask Orban, OK, who does he recommend? Maybe it’s a better was to approach things. Orban will be very generous. After another few weeks the Prime Minister’s Office will have not one, but three foundations… Read more »
Member

Because Norway does not have single lawyer… Fidesz had to back off a lot. I think the “veto” is written is so they do not loose face, after giving up on everything, so they get some money to Hungarians after all. Good try Bárányka!

ebony
Guest

Orban only “backed off” so that the compromise could be what he always wanted: control over the money. They escalated first then met “halfway”.

Fidesz successfully controlled the “civilian board” of the state media even before 2010 and successfully engineered the election of pro-fidesz constitutional court judges (even though MSZP at that time also had a veto over proposed judges) even from minority.

Fideszniks know how to control formally independent entities, how to play with negotiation games, how to play the good cop and the bad cop etc. They love these games. They are addicted to them. The veto – if real – is more than enough for Fidesz to exert the control it always sought.

With Fidesz no compromise is ever possible, but this idea is antithetical to the Western mindset, which is fundamentally based on looking for “decent compromises” (aka appeasement). So no wonder these compromises are always won by Fidesz. Fidesz can only opposed by force, by sheer power plays, that’s the only method they understand. Putin knows this, Westerners don’t.

Guest

Come on, there are so many of the more than a thousand new Fidesz laws that had to be changed – they may get what they want (they think …) but in reality they’re cutting into their own flesh (as we say in German).

Guest

Re Orbàn’s babies:
The Nazis tried to be more efficient even – read about project Lebensborn:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensborn
And the pictures of those young blond women which were to become mothers of the super Aryans …

I sincerely hope that the “right wing backlash” that we’re experiencing in Europe now is just a temporary phenomenon – if not, then I give up hope for humanity …

Of course, life will go on – just as it does in the USA where still more than 40% of the people are “strict” Creationists and believe that the earth was created less than 10 000 years ago. This shows that even the most craziest can adapt to the modern world in a way – so why not the Orbanites?

PS:
As we all know, the only people in Hungary fulfilling O’s dreams of “producing” more children right now are the Roma – has he thought about this at all?
And does he think their lifestyle produces the right kind of people that Hungary needs?
Or does he just want a lot of young ones to be used as cannon fodder later?

cdfre
Guest

Romas will not get a penny, absolutely out of the question. Can you imagine what kind of resentment this would cause in small villages? The welfare queen getting HUF 20m for making yet another three roma children? There are so many legal ways to limit their access, You don’t have to worry about that. Only orderly white middle class folks (voting for Fidesz) will have access to the money.

Guest

But do you really believe that this will motivate enough young (or old …) people to have more children in Hungary?

Even 20 million HUF is nothing if the woman (or the man …) has to give up the job to care for the family – I don’t think there are many people around who make so much money that one job is enough …

petofi
Guest

re: more babies–5 at least

Yup, that’s what the country needs–kids that won’t be educated.
But this government doesn’t care: at best, they just want more worker ants…

Guest

We don’t need no education … – to raise pigs …

PS and rather OT – or not?:

We saw and heard this in the Roger Waters (Pink Floyd) concert/performance “The Wall” in Budapest some year ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Another_Brick_in_the_Wall
We’ll never forget the grandiose atmosphere – everybody (and there were people from all over Central and Eastern Europe of all ages) was happy, friendly, nice, smiling – no one made noise, not one piece of garbage (beer cans, cups, paper …) thrown on the floor …

Member

More Babies Needed to Serve the Magyar Mafia Machine

Dismaying summary reportabout the Matolcsy “Family” by Chris Adam in Hungarian Free Press, based on 444.hu

The complicity and apathy of Hungarian citizens is beyond belief. And these “patriots” not only speak of but get bent out of shape about offences to Hungarian “pride.”
comment image

Member

(It would sure help is the HP/wordpress editing function could be got back on its feet. I briefly managed to get logged in as member a few days ago, but then the loop doubled back on itself and I’m back in the spiral of login, link, rejected, change password, login, link, rejected, change…)

The HFP link to Chris’s article that I meant to insert in the Matolcsy post:
http://hungarianfreepress.com/2015/12/22/hungarys-fidesz-corruption-on-a-grand-scale/

Member

Stevan I am working on it honestly. I was thinking to change the theme but now when I am looking at it, it does not help.
So: Log in with WordPress, than link your account. Make sure when you are linking your account you use the same username as your wordpress, not the username on HS. That seemed to do the trick for me…

tappanch
Guest

Matolcsy’s cousin’s bank gave the loan to Matolcsy’s son to buy a furniture factory from Varszegi.

Matocsy’s other son works for another bank controlled by the National Bank headed by Matolcsy.

http://444.hu/2015/12/22/matolcsy-gyorgy-fia-egyszer-csak-egy-nagy-butorgyar-tulajdonosa-lett

Member

Din’ wanna wack ‘er but she jes din’t burff enough babies….

http://nepszava.hu/image/?id=430663&th=x

Member

comment image

Guest

Is this one of the clinics where all these extra babies are to be delivered?comment image

Guest

It’s all G’s fault!comment image

tappanch
Guest

The official population of Hungary, which includes lots of people who do not live here any longer is at
9.823 million now (1957 level), a
8.3% decline from its peak at
10.709 million in 1980.

tappanch
Guest
tappanch
Guest

The population is still 29.0% above that of 1910 (7.612) in the same territory !

Guest
Hungary’s demographic crisis could easily be resolved by “vacuuming up” the two and a half million or so Hungarian speakers from the neighbouring countries with a generous immigration and integration program while pursuing sane and smart economic and educational policies creating competitive advantages that would then maximise prosperity on a sustainable, long term basis. That however would require a sea-change in many of the characteristic aspects of Hungarian mentality and also a final giving up on the dreams of Greater Hungary. Meantime Hungary is not just becoming a country of emigration, but is neither able nor willing to integrate its Roma minority, having a great deal of indigestion with its home-grown Jewish minority, and makes it as unattractive as possible for even Hungarians from the neighbouring countries to relocate and settle in the “mother country.” Relevant quality education and risk-embracing individual enterprise are the two preconditions to creating competitive advantage. Hungary is well on its way to completely destroying relevant quality education, whilst risk-embracing individual enterprise has always been antithetical to the gentry mentality characterizing the Hungarian ethos. Historically, risk-embracing individual enterprise had mainly been practiced by the country’s despised Jews, and only in the distant past, before the Jew… Read more »
Guest

So old Unca Konrád hasn’t actually gone soft in the head in his dotage, just using the wrong set of arguments to support the case he is making. And of course attempting to square the circle the usual Hungarian Jewish style.

Guest

And let me amend the third sentence in my fourth paragraph above, as follows:

“Historically, risk-embracing individual enterprise had mainly been practiced by the country’s despised Jews – for the most part late 18th and early to mid-19th century immigrant stock in Hungary – and only in the distant past, before the Jew Laws and the Hungarian Holocaust that followed them.”

Guest

A small confession

In my dotage, I love to pontificate. Moreover, to pontificate at as tiresome a length as possible. Whether in English, Hungarian or Hebrew. I find it hugely entertaining, whether anyone listens or not. Luckily, I don’t take myself too seriously, and don’t expect others to take me too seriously either. A good sense of humour is all.

:-)))

Guest

Long comments are fine if you remember to place your punchline in the beginning.

Guest

Interesting! And I thought my first sentence was carrying my key point. Well, just shows how wrong I can be, thinking of going in one direction, but perceived as going in another. Like blind Freddy on the busy freeway . . . . .

:-))

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