A new year: roll back the clock

László Kövér, president of the Hungarian Parliament, has a unique ability. Even if he utters only a couple of sentences he manages to squeeze several outrageous comments into them. Can you imagine when he has a whole hour to share his complaints about the modern world, which is rotten to the core and will be even more awful with each passing day? Unfortunately, on January 1, he did just that on Echo TV, a far right channel. Kövér’s interlocutor was the like-thinking Zsolt Bayer, who sighed at frequent intervals whenever he thought that the weight of the issues was close to unbearable.

During this hour an awful lot of nonsense was uttered by these two men, but the overwhelming impression they left us with is that they are very unhappy because Hungary is no longer what it was when they were growing up. Kövér was born in 1959 and was 31 years old at the time of the regime change. Bayer was born in 1963 and so was 27 years old in 1990. Their formative years were spent in the consolidated Kádár regime. It was, they recall, a time of simple pleasures, close family ties, often two generations sharing the same apartment or house because of the lack of available housing. Interestingly, the ideal woman in this conversation was not the mother who most likely worked in some office or factory by then but the grandmother who looked after her grandchildren. This grandmother worked all day long without complaint. She wasn’t frustrated; she wasn’t bitter; she wasn’t depressed. She gladly sacrificed her life for her brood. Or at least this is how Zsolt Bayer envisaged the life of his grandmother. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if this idyllic time could come back.

As for the future, it is bleak indeed. “Homo sapiens,” especially in the most developed parts of the world, seems to have lost its instinct for survival while in poorer regions, like Africa, more and more babies are being born. It looks as if “only the European white race is capable of committing suicide,” Kövér claimed. This downward spiral started with the introduction of old age benefits, which made children superfluous as providers in later life. This bemoaning of such intrinsic parts of the welfare state as old age benefits and perhaps even health insurance leads me to believe that these people feel utterly out of place in the 21st century. It is not a coincidence that the conversation about the past centered on Bayer’s grandmother who, judging from the time of her death, was born sometime around 1910. If it depended on these men, they would lead us back to the time of the Horthy regime, specifically into lower-middle class families in which the wife remained at home, looking after the children. These people would, if they could, simply get in a time machine and fly back a good hundred years, just as Bayer indicated, in one of his recent articles, he would gladly do.

In addition to this longing for an imagined past, they have a strong belief in Hungarian exceptionalism, which stems from the socialist era in which these two men grew up. Those fifty years, which Kövér simply calls Bolshevism, are the source of all of Hungary’s problems, which the last twenty some years of democracy couldn’t remedy. So, one would expect that he and Bayer would reject the whole period. But this is not the case. In their opinion, those years kept Hungarians as well as other countries of the Soviet bloc real Europeans. Old-fashioned Europeans who adhere to Christian, national values as opposed to the westerners who went astray: they became liberal, they are politically correct, they don’t believe in family values, they allow same-sex marriages, they don’t want to save Christianity from the Muslim migrants, and above all they are helping the United States and the multinational corporations destroy the nation states. Bayer goes so far as to claim that by now Hungary is the only truly European country. Kövér is a bit more generous: the Visegrád4 countries could be included in this small community of real Europeans.

Who is responsible for this state of affairs in Europe? The answer, in Kövér’s opinion, is simple: the multinational companies, whose interests dictate the destruction of families and nations. I would perhaps understand why multinational corporations would like to see fewer regulations that vary from state to state, but for the life of me I can’t fathom why they would want families to disappear. In any case, these multinationals want to weaken national governments because “they want to govern.” In this dirty work they receive help from “useful idiots and paid agents among the European political elite.” If you add to these two categories the “cowards,” they already hold a two-thirds majority in Brussels. These people are “the mercenaries of the United States; they are swindlers or at best unfit idiots who try to turn us out of office in the most dastardly, the most cunning, and the most boorish way.” Hungary is a besieged fortress attacked by the mercenaries of the United States. Or, less elegantly put by the boorish president of the Hungarian parliament, it is a country whose prime minister, like a pig on ice, must somehow stay on his feet while others try to trip him up.

If the Orbán regime shapes its domestic and foreign policies based on the muddled views expressed in this interview, they will be guaranteed failures. Time machines are figments of the imagination, and any attempt to turn back the wheel of time is a hopeless undertaking. The same failure is guaranteed if the Orbán regime bases its relations with the European Union on the mistaken notion that Western European political mercenaries in the service of the United States are intent on overthrowing the government in Budapest.

As for this relentless war against the multinationals, it will only result in decreasing foreign investment in the country. I know that this is no threat to Kövér, who has infinite trust in the ability of Hungarian entrepreneurs to replace the foreign companies currently in the country. But whether Kövér and Orbán like it or not, in today’s global economy they cannot be dispensed with, at least as long as Hungary is part of the European Union. To suggest otherwise is just idle talk.

Sort by:   newest | oldest | most voted
Gabor Toka
Guest

Zimbabwe used to be the West’s favorite spot in sub-Saharan Africa before Mugabe made his wonders. He remains in power and occasionally has some fans celebrating him as a hero of anti-colonialism in the African Union. That is success in the Fidesz assessment of what is right and wrong in politics, is not it? Zimbabweans who do not like hyperinflation or clubbing white farmers to death can leave, and leave Zimbabwe for those who really love the country dearly. So what is wrong with Kover speaking like Mugabe?

Guest

Yeah, the guilt ridden and naive, useful idiot anti-colonialist left-liberals of the West used to just love the “Marxist” Mugabe and his People’s Liberation Army fighting that dirty-rotten Southern Rhodesian colonialist Ian Smith and his army of settler-farmer-soldiers, who by the way, have made that land livable and prosperous for all through sheer hard work, brains and guts, a place where the vast majority of the blacks themselves were incomparably better off than they are under the horrendous misrule of Comrade Mugabe, now well into its fourth decade.

e-1803
Guest

Was anybody born before yesterday?
Why have most Hungarians forgotten Ferenc Deak.
https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/De%C3%A1k_Ferenc_(igazs%C3%A1g%C3%BCgy-miniszter)
His Hungary was more Western, more enlightened than any other countries/nations before and after him.
He was often imitated but never duplicated.

Guest

Your claims are a “bit of an” exaggeration, I would think, in fact quite a mighty “bit.”

Deák was, after all, a man of his times and class, with some very serious blind spots, particularly in the matter of the nationalities question.

Deák was able to leverage to significant Hungarian advantage the Austrian defeat in the 1866 Austro-Prussian War, which then led to the 1867 Austro-Hungarian Compromise (one of whose by-products was the emancipation of Jews in the Kingdom of Hungary, and just about simultaneously Jewish emancipation right across the rest of the Habsburg monarchy).

But to claim that in Deák’s time Hungary “was more Western and more enlightened than any other countries/nations before and after him,” is simply a piece of egregious nonsense.

Guest

However, what you could most certainly claim with a great deal of justice and truth is that Hungary was a heck of a lot more Western and more enlightened in Deák’s time than at any times before him and at all times after the demise of the dual monarchy.

e-1803
Guest

Deak was and remains ahead of all other world leaders.
His principled non-violence moral became the beacon for Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King…
Gene Sharp adopted his ideas for building democracy brick by brick.
It would be good to brush up our views on Deak.
Bela Kiraly wrote a Deak biography.
The Deak speeches are on: http://mek.oszk.hu/02200/02213/html/

Finally, Deak can called the father of Zionism.

Member

Kover and Bayer reminds me to the Fidesz MP, who inadvertently started a campaign against Fidesz. (it is like Bayer and Kover calling everyone else communists while lobbying for the good, old communist era they grew up in, and loved so much

According to Fidesz MP, Becso, Zsolt Fidesz creates
“top-notch chaos” Just like the picture Becso put up for illustration from the city of Budapest that is run by Fidesz’ own, Tarlos. You know Becso does not trust Fidesz, and either Bayer or Kover do trues their own party. They do want communism back, just like Orban did when he said he “did not have a problem with the regime [at the time]”, he just did not like the people who were running it.
comment image

http://444.hu/2016/01/02/az-mszp-bol-akart-de-veletlenul-a-sajat-partjabol-csinalt-bohocot-a-fideszes-becso-zsolt

Guest

Don’t worry. This was just one of the episodes of In Treatment or called Terápia in Hungary, a great series of HBO. Based on this part Kover has many psychological issues and clearly has some deeply rooted aversion against multinational companies. Probably it goes back to childhood miseries, but I am not so sure at this point. By the way seems that nor is Bayer in a better shape mentally. I am eagerly waiting for the next part to figure out more about those two.

Member
I have given up all hope a long time ago, that Hungarians will do anything to change their society and try to assimilate into the West. They don’t even feel the need for it. They could not do it for 1100 years and they will never be able to do it, while they live in Hungary. Only some of those Hungarians can assimilate, who leave fairly young, if they are flexible and they have a cosmopolitan view. Hungary is just a backward little country, where there are some intermittent periods of some hope for a change and some cultural interaction with the West, but in general, they had been brainwashed for so many decades that it is best to leave them alone. The society is aging and it is slowly dying out, except perhaps the gypsy population. If it wasn’t for them, the birthrate would be much lower. The borders are open, so anyone who wants to live in a better society, Europe is open for him or her. It is safer to leave, start a new life, then start another loosing and body revolution. Those who would win would be pushed aside and the aggressive, corrupt, criminal element would… Read more »
Guest

This is very true, but I think that what you are saying is characteristic of the entire East Block (except perhaps Estonia) and the Balkans, and not just of Hungary.

I myself lost all my childhood illusions and delusions about Hungary and Hungarians way back in the fifties and in particular in the refugee camps of 1956.

it is sad to see the EU elites still in thrall of those very same childish illusions and delusions about East Block countries. And not just sad, but tragic.

Guest
I do know what you mean, but it might be worthwhile to try and understand why Hungarians are as they are? Search me, though an interview in Le Monde of Kertész Imre, nobel prize winning Hungarian living abroad, might shed some light. For those who might not know, Kertész is author of the excellent book, but less-than-wonderful film adaptation, “Fateless” (Sorstalanság). When asked what he thought of the present (and by implication dreadful) political situation in Hungary instead of just bemoaning the endless list, as we all do, of corruption, lying, cheating, etc., he pointed out that Hungary has always been bewildered and conflicted about whether it belongs to the East or to the West, and is therefore a nation of confused values. When I mentioned this disorientation phenomenon to a friend she just said “what can you expect, just look at their language!” Hungarian, which I speak fluently though struggle reading, is, as most people know, unique even in Eastern Europe where the surrounding countries speak either Latin-based Romance languages, or a form of Slavic. The language we use affects the way we think. That many Hungarians have no idea what it really means to live in a democracy… Read more »
Guest

‘The language we use affects the way we think’

Interesting. I went on a ramble thinking what would happen say if the illustrious Fidesz leadership spoke French in their diplomatic communications. If I’m not mistaken French was at one time considered the language of diplomacy and its documents were written in that tongue. No doubt the reason for that is that was some sort of recognition that the language itself was conducive to rational negotiation on difficult subjects.

On that it is arguable whether Magyar is conducive today when it comes to political discourse. Is it perhaps coming across as a language of conflict or are the speakers getting confounded with the messages?

Guest

And wasn’t French used in aristocratic circles too, not just offical diplomatic ones, as far afield as Russia?

I think Patrick Leigh Fermor mentions something in his delightful trilogy of his travels through Hungary, “Between theWoods and the Water”. But I might be wrong.

Guest

Even Prussian king Frederick the Great spoke only French if possible …
He was a strange person: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_the_Great
Many Germans (most of my friends e g …) prefer French to English and are unhappy with the preponderance of English
And today the language of the world wide postal system still is French.

Guest

Just got a card from Hungary. On the envelope in CAPITALS it says ‘ELSSOBBSEGI’…
Below it in small type it’s ‘Prioritaire’. Maybe Hungary is looking ahead in the world postal business??…;-)..
And btw I have to say Hungarian stamps make ours look pretty lame. I save them as art. Some have really beautiful imprintings.

And regarding Mr. Fermor , noted as a cross between Indiana Jones, Graham Greene and James Bond according to the BBC, it would have been interesting to take in his observations as he did Hungary before WW II in his great travelogue trilogy if he visited modern Hungary today. Brave fellow when we see him in action in Crete capturing a Nazi general (actually reading about that now). He’d no doubt have a lot more to say about the people and one of the places ‘between the woods and the water’.

Guest

I agree about the stamps! They are quite special and the postal workers at my local PO are quite proud of them, and happy that I appreciate it when they choose nice ones for me.

And I also agree about Fermor and that he would not be too pleased with poor old Hungary, at the moment.

Though we are all now used to how strangely retrograde things have become here, we are still capable of being shocked, almost on a daily basis, about the never-ending new laws and latest schemes of our very own in-house gangsters, and no doubt Fermor would be too.

Guest

In linguistics, the idea that ‘The language we use affects the way we think’ is called the Sapir-Whorf theory of linguistic relativity. My view is that it ain’t necessarily so by a long shot. Rather, I think that the opposite is the case, namely that the way we think affects the language we use to express our thoughts. Anyway, a hard to prove proposition one way or another.

Guest

I agree with your theory that language works both ways – affects our thinking and is also shaped by our thinking.

Wittgenstein wrote-
“The limits of my language mean the limits of my world.”
And add to this that there are approximately 500,000 words in the Hungarian dictionary, and about 1,000,000 in the English one.
I am not trying to be a language colonialist here, just stating facts and also that it must have a bearing on the collective psyche of a nation.

Guest

Interestingly, Jean P, there has been a great deal of research in this both by scientists and psychologists, please see the links, plus there is much more, if you google it.

http://www.newyorker.com/science/maria-konnikova/bilingual-advantage-aging-brain

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3164163/It-s-official-Speaking-one-language-makes-smarter-Bilingual-people-grey-matter-know-mother-tongue.html

Guest

”The language we use affects the way we think.”
As far as I know there is no scientific proof that this is the case and I doubt that linguistic isolation is a valid excuse for anything. The Finns are linguistically isolated just as the Hungarians but that does not seem to distort their thinking and judgement. Finns do and say nothing that needs to be explained away by linguistic arguments. I have recently had the pleasure to visit Malta and be acquainted with a European people that is as linguistically isolated as the Hungarians and the Finns. Maltese, the national language of Malta, is derived from Arabic but it has developed too far away from its source to allow mutual understanding with Arabs. My impression is that the Maltese like the Finns think and behave like enlightened and democratically minded Europeans. Most of them speak some English whereas most Hungarians speak only Hungarian. Linguistic isolation is a small handicap. It can be compensated by second language skills. The Hungarians have failed to do so.

Guest

Exactly. I made the exact same point in my two posts above.

Guest

Interestingly, Jean P, there has been a great deal of research in this both by scientists and psychologists, please see the links, plus there is much more, if you google it.

http://www.newyorker.com/science/maria-konnikova/bilingual-advantage-aging-brain

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3164163/It-s-official-Speaking-one-language-makes-smarter-Bilingual-people-grey-matter-know-mother-tongue.html

Guest
Most people in Hungary were bilingual and even trilingual and quadrilingual before WW1, and the present day linguistic isolation is a relatively recent phenomenon that arose after WW1, when most native speakers of Romanian and of various Slavic languages in the former Kingdom of Hungary became citizens of their own countries spread around a severely truncated Hungary. I think however that the linguistic isolation that became a deliberately fostered fact of life in Hungary over the past ninety odd years has nothing really to do with the lunatic misconceptions, misunderstandings and misconstruals swirling around in Hungarian heads today. Proof of that are the writings, in Hungarian, of Hungarians like István Bíró. I strongly recommend his writings to anyone interested in finding out what genuine sanity, understanding, decency, humanity and a superlatively wide intellectual horizon looked like in Hungary in the years immediately after WW2. I was particularly taken by the intellectual brilliance and penetrating insights of three of his essays: (1) “A kelet-európai kisállamok nyomorúsága” (The Distress of the Dwarf Nations of Eastern Europe), (2) “Eltorzult magyar alkat, zsákutcás magyar történelem” (Warped Hungarian Psyche, Dead End Hungarian History), and (3) “Zsidókérdés Magyarországon 1944 után” (The Jewish Question in Hungary After… Read more »
Guest
Thanks for that ref. . And just an observation on ‘linguistic isolation’. Hungary indeed does appear to have a unique and apparently very difficult language to learn. What is intriguing is that the country has done very very well in apparently making a ‘negative’ rumble on along to a ‘positive’ where ‘linguistic isolation’ is not the focal point anymore but rather the construction of a nation-building ‘linguistic nationalism’. In a way they look to be like France and its relationship to language in the ‘homeland’. Unfortunately though I’d think Hungarian does not command the respect that French does today since arguably hardly anybody learns the language nor do they wish to live there to take in the joy of life. Just thought all the disturbing aspect of that seems to come out in certain political communications by certain politicos where curses are now employed in discourse. No doubt to get the ‘feeling’ out. Magyar has great curses, no? In the future perhaps we should look at the debasement of Magyar in looking for clues in the country’s political, social and psychological state. When I recall traveling around there I have to say I cannot remember anyone commenting on my Hungarian.… Read more »
Guest

Hungarian is no more difficult to learn than Estonian, Finnish or Turkish, all so-called agglutinative languages with very complex case morphologies (ragozás – conjugation and inflection with affixes, whether in the form of suffixes, infixes or prefixes) that require an enormous amount of memorization by the learner.

For native speakers however, the advantage of complex case morphologies is an almost completely free word order within the sentence, which make a language like Hungarian very flexible in forming sentences.

English, on the other hand, uses a relatively rigid syntax (sentence structure) and prosodic prompts (stress and intonation) to achieve the same ends in conveying intended meanings that Hungarian achieves principally via morphology.

In English therefore we have a largely fixed word order in sentences, affixes are few and far between, and apart from a few exceptions, case relations are captured largely by means of prepositional structures.

Guest

Nice overview. You know when I do hear that Hungarian is ‘difficult’ I’d think it has to be the opinion of those who come say from a very different language ‘family’ and who also may not have an affinity for ‘picking up’ languages.

I’ve always envied Europeans a bit since they have the opportunity to be more than say one ‘ person’ to the world because they are in a veritable soup of languages there on the continent. My Hungarian today is far from perfect but I can manage along with a bit of effort getting translation. I guess I long to get back in that ‘ language soup’ since it would help me learn the language at a higher level especially with a greater command in vocabulary. For me ‘Hungarian yes Ingles no’ would work very well for me. It worked previously like a charm. I hope to do it again soon.

Guest

Glad to have been able to oblige. :-))

I myself use English, Hebrew and Hungarian all the time, every day.

But I find that reading Hungarian poetry is like watching vivid colour television in 3D to the pale black and white television in 2D, of English and Hebrew poetry.

That is probably just because as a native speaker of Hungarian, I have a natural mental bias in favour of the colour and flavour of Hungarian.

It is also the case that even after 59 years of being away from Hungary and generally staying away from Hungarians, I still have a very noticeable Hungarian accent in both English and Hebrew, even though I left Hungary and Hungarian language contacts behind when I was only fourteen years old.

For well over forty years I never used Hungarian at all, but with the internet, Skype and some close friendships with a few people back in Budapest, I began to use Hungarian daily on a pretty intensive basis from 2003 on, and soon enough the language came back with full force, like I never left Hungary.

Of course today I do have a slight foreign accent in Hungarian too, but that goes with the trilingual territory.

:-))

Guest

Your comment on reading Hungarian poetry as ‘3D’ hit very much home. It is there I think that we see the literary flourishing of the nation and people in its poetry. And as the great TS Eliot noted poetry is a ‘vehicle for expressing feeling’. He notes further that ‘people find the most conscious expression of their deepest feeling in the poetry of their own language’. And this gets through no matter how much education. It is interesting to note that emotion and feeling , being very particular, in one language does not necessarily translate through completely when conveyed in another language. This is in contrast to thought which indeed can come through much easier in the form of idea.

As far as accents I’d think we both have that state. I have never asked how my very very prevalent NY accent seeps through on top of my English and then further with ‘mellifluous’ Magyar. Must be a really weird sound mix…;-)…

petofi
Guest

America–Life, Liberty, And the Pursuit of Happiness

Hungary–Life, Slavery, And the Pursuit of Insanity

Guest

Hungary in 2015: The year in review
A very long but far from exhaustive list of major scandals.

http://budapestbeacon.com/economics/hungary-in-2015-the-year-in-review/30498

Observer
Guest

Again, I find it mind boggling – what kind of dupes or psychos can be so grandly gang screwed and still cheer the rapists. The syndrome is known, e.g. in Orwell’s 1984 one had not only to obey Big Brother, but come to love him.
The majority of Hungarians have again gone overboard sucking this in hook line and sinker..

Member

Most of the items are well know but I was blown away by the December item. Obviously as a good, old Fidesz tactic they put this in at the time when people are preoccupied with other things:
“In December the government announced plans to make HUF 50 billion (USD 175 million) available for investment in the Vojvodina region of neighboring Serbia, namely HUF 20 billion in the form of non-refundable grants and HUF 30 billion in low-interest loans. The government offered a slew of explanations, none of which made any sense, as the amount is roughly equal to total hospital arrears to suppliers and third-party contractors as of the end of November.

Guest

Lunatics.

But lunatics who are genuine representatives of mainstream opinion in Hungary, comprising well over 80% of the voting public (Fidesz plus Jobbik).

This is why left-liberal opinion leaders are simply not in the game in Hungary.

Can anyone imagine left-liberal opinion leaders from Budapest sitting down with Jancsi bácsi and Mari néni in village after village, country town after country town, talking real folksy with them, like one of the boys, in the style that Orbán, Kövér and all the rest of their ilk are past masters of, convincing Jancsi bácsi and Mari néni of the left-liberal case, and establishing left-liberal networks in village after village, and country town after country town, that could eventually lead the left-liberals back into political power?

Gyurcsány, Radnóti, Heller, Bauer, Vásárhelyi, Konrád and the rest?

Gimme a break. . . . . .

Jancsi bácsi and Mari néni wouldn’t even understand what they were on about, and if they did, they would vehemently beg to disagree.

Yet it is Jancsi bácsi and Mari néni who determine the outcome of elections in Hungary.

Guest

By the way, I think that in the lingo of Kövér and Bayer, “multinationals” and “international bankers” are simply code words for “international Jew” or “international Jewish conspiracy”, or if you will, “modernity” or “globalization.”

It is patently obvious that what principally motivates the mental retardation of Kövér, Bayer and most Hungarians is a visceral hate, fear and loathing of modernity (and globalization, and multinationals, and international bankers, in other words Jews and their perfidious conspiracy against Hungarians).

Which does not portend at all well for Hungary’s prospects in a rapidly emerging future that is already almost upon us.

Guest
And of course there has never in history been a country whose ethos would have been as close to that of both religious and secular Jewry as that of the United States, with its powerful North European Protestant and Freemason traditions, as for instance manifested in its Constitution, Rule of Law, constitutional division of powers and checks and balances, or in even the layout and architecture of the government precinct within the Washington beltway, and even on its banknotes. So it is entirely unsurprising that the likes of Kövér and Bayer look upon the United States as the Great Satan that provides the muscle for the perifidious conspiracy of the international Jew against Hungary and the Hungarians. Just as the similar giants of intellect in Shia Iran, as well as those in the wider Sunni Muslim world do in respect of their own respective operating contexts. By the way, when I told my wife about the official Hungarian line on women, her reaction was that it sounds like Hungarians are exactly like the Arabs, and also like the first generation Arab Jews who arrived in Israel back in the early fifties as penniless refugees from Arab countries stretching from the… Read more »
Observer
Guest

Let’s not mix politicians with philosophers and academics, which, admittedly, is a major problem with leftists/democrats here. In politics emotions rule over reason.
Gyurcsány has become very good communicator, without being the brazen liar and opportunist of the Orban ilk. The growth of DK is a notable success, bearing in mind the lack of funding or media and the hostile action sustained by the regime on all fronts. He tops my list for now.

Guest
Hmm. But I was talking only about the opinion leaders and opinion makers in the left-liberal “camp.” And by the way, Gyurcsány is my favorite guy too, on the left side of Hungarian politics, both as a politician and as an opinion leader and opinion maker, and perhaps that is precisely the reason why he is unfortunately such a no hoper of ever again winning power in Hungary. It is moreover just very sad that the growth of DK is very largely restricted to a relatively insignificant handful of the left-liberal elite in Budapest, all refugees from MSZP and the now defunct SZDSZ, a grouping of political activists who tragically are totally incapable of providing the vision, leadership and organizational muscle and brains that could unify the fractured and fractious left wing of Hungarian politics, and thus bring the left side of Hungarian politics to some kind of a reasonable poll position in the upcoming electoral race. Unfortunately, it is patently obvious that the DK is not an election winning grouping of political activists either in numbers, capability or influence in Hungary, whether we are talking about today, tomorrow, 2018 or 2038, and it is most certainly literally billions of… Read more »
petofi
Guest

Oy vay, Tzurelay!
C’mon, ambalint, do you think voters decide elections in Orban’s Hungary? How about the great O sitting down with Rogan and Szijjarto, and maybe that big ‘koponya’ (brain) Kover, and deciding what kind of result they want…and then promptly arranging same with
a few trusted clan members.

Liberty & Democracy…Hungarian style.

Hajra Magyarok!!

Guest

I take your point! :-))

Guest

comment image

Guest
Just an observation on Messrs. Kover and Bayer. In looking at their intellectual positions one has to indeed see that the ‘child is father’ to the man when it comes to their world views today. I just have the feeling that they just like everybody else didn’t ‘get out’ enough during those apparently ‘Pax Kadarian’ times. A time I think which was deleterious to the Hungarian imagination since its day in day out illusions appeared to assuage the country to survive the hell ‘Sovietism’ gave them. But in fact it was an artificial response masking deep unhappiness in the affairs of Hungarians after being treated as chattel. Kadar sure looked good. He had everybody believing that ‘magic’. Glad I got out twice to see and experience with my own eyes those now oh so nostalgic Kadar times. Amazing how one can feel the almost imperceptible boot hovering around the face. During those times for those who had an affinity for ‘freedom’ this wouldn’t be surprising to hear : ‘Our country sinks beneath the yoke . It weeps, it bleeds and each new day a gash Is added to her wounds’. (Macbeth) But to some the ghost of Kadar is ready… Read more »
Istvan
Guest

Kover’s idea that is US based multinational corporations that are leading to the destruction of extended families, not just in Hungary but in many countries including most recently China, is absurd. It is one of the more unfortunate aspects of modern capitalism and it has been evolving for well over a hundred years. Fredrick Engels even described it in his 1845 book the Condition of the Working Class in England.

The economic function of the extended family served little purpose once the transition was made from an agrarian and small craftsman based society. Psychologically the idea that you will not be taken in care of by your children as one ages is extremely frightening, because social welfare benefits/ retirement benefits and long term care benefits are constantly under threat. One would assume that Kövér has stashed enough money in Switzerland that he does not need to worry about this issue.

I am currently in the Santa Catalina Mountains to the northeast of Tucson Arizona and have limited internet access. So it’s not likely I will be able to respond rapidly to any comments.

Guest
Capitalism, in other words the operations of the free market, does have its pluses and minuses, just like anything else in life. It is also a continuously evolving, Protean, meritocratic creative-destructive system of accomplishing desirable social, economic and political ends, which is the secret of its ongoing survival, durability and indestructibility. On the positive side, capitalism is an absolute, hands down winner, without peer or competitor in the human social order. It rapidly lifted Europeans out of their dire poverty at the time of Marx and Engels – from a life that was indeed nasty, brutish and short – funded even the Soviet Union throughout its existence, made America the mighty nation it is, drove the successive scientific and technological revolutions, and in recent times it lifted hundreds of millions of Indians, Chinese and other Far Easterners from poverty stricken, miserable peasant life into rapidly expanding middle classes. Capitalism works by the force of attraction, the individual making considered choices as to where to place his or her dollar, thus by the force of individual enterprise, which, if successful in attracting business, may indeed evolve ultimately into vast multinational corporations. However, on the negative side, an unregulated capitalist free for… Read more »
Guest
| OT (kind of) | As far as the “problem” of “inequality” is concerned, there has always been glaring inequality between the rich and the poor in all societies, whether capitalist or not: even in the communist world between the “nomenklatura” and the rest. The difference today is that exponentially increasing technological changes in communication, transportation, automation and disintermediation concomitant with globalization have dramatically reduced the leverage of traditional labour in developed countries, and at the same time intense media attention to the problem by the left-liberal elite in America and Western Europe have in turn dramatically amplified the impression created by the scope and magnitude of a problem that of course does exist for real. This is first and foremost because the fervent hopes and longings of the West European and American left-liberal elite in the fifties and sixties for a fully egalitarian welfare society had unfortunately come to nought when they got mugged by economic reality in the seventies and eighties. One extremely pernicious and socially dangerous consequence of all this in America is that despite continued forlorn expectations to the contrary, the real income levels of the vast lower middle classes in America have not moved at… Read more »
Guest

Let’s put it frankly:
In the “good old days” in Europe giving birth to many children was a necessity because
a) many died during childhood
b) many were killed in war – until the middle of the 20th Century Europe had wars every generation at least
My father (born in 1908) had twelve siblings – only three (including him) were still alive after WW2.
Do these crazies maybe want those times back?
Then they should remember that Hungary has a tradition to always being on the wrong i e the losing side …

PS:
Bayer interviewing Kövér is as crazy as it can get imho!

Guest

Spot on, Wolfi!

petofi
Guest

@wolfi7777

“Do these crazies maybe want those times back?”

No.
Theoretically, they haven’t the foggiest what they want, except the continuous fog in the mind of the average, mentally-challenged, mis-educated, electorate…in order to continue looting the country. How long can it continue? They don’t know themselves. They’re already
gob-smacked (like that Brit expression) that the somnambulant
natives keep sucking back the banal excuses and entertainments that they come up with. The new programme–money for kids–is another such. The idiotic Hungarians cannot fathom what an insult to average intelligence the whole program is, since they have no hope of ever financing it….but that, in time, will be blamed on Soros and other jews.

What a game!

And the idiotic Magyars are never bored by it!

Hajra Magyarok!!

NWO
Guest

Kövér has for many years looked back nostalgically to the pre-1989 Hungary. Him and Bayer represent this depressingly large group of Hungarians who hate communism but love everything about it (save for its mandatory atheism). Unlike Orbán, Kövér still retains an element of “anti-Russianism ” (I think), but the rest of his “analysis” of the worldview is depressingly dated, unrealistic and obviously deeply damaging to Hungary and Hungarian people, who happen not to be close to the upper echelons of FIDESZ.

tappanch
Guest

The future is already here.

The hourly wage for an 8-hour NIGHTLY shift for cleaning snow from the roads of Budapest with shovels is ….

1 .67 euros

http://www.168ora.hu/itthon/4200-forintert-keresnek-hetfo-ejszakara-homunkasokat-budapesten-141903.html

petofi
Guest

@tappanch

re: snow-shovellers

One should ask those hapless workers whether their heart is full of joy and thankfulness when they think of the ‘rezsi chokentes’…

wpDiscuz