How far is Hungary prepared to go to raise the country’s birthrate?

On January 7 only a few people, mostly bloggers who spend a lot of time on the Internet, especially on Facebook, noticed that the Budapest section of the Association of Young Christian Democrats (Ifjú Kereszténydemokraták Szövetsége / IKSZ) was planning to gather to discuss Hungary’s demographic woes and possible remedies, like extra levies on single adults over the age of 24 or barring women with fewer than three children from important positions in the public sphere. That would mean, for instance, that “underperforming” women in healthcare and education could not become department heads, principals, or full professors. As it turned out, the Young Christian Democrats were inspired by a newly published book, At the Edge of the Precipice, written by József Benda.

To me József Benda is something of a mystery. In an article on him that appeared in Magyar Nemzet he is described as a sociologist. In another article he is said to run a private, experimental school based on a teaching method called “humanistic cooperative teaching.” Apparently Benda started his school, the Humánus Alapítványi Általános Iskola, in Újpest in 1982. Elsewhere Benda is presented as a university professor at the Budapest Metropolitan University, the largest private university in Hungary with master’s programs in communication and media studies, management and leadership, tourism management, and graphic design. In the last few years Benda seems to have devoted his time and energy to the study of demography. He is trying to find answers to the dwindling Hungarian population.

József Benda is no stranger to KDNP (Christian Democratic People’s Party). In fact it was the party’s foundation, the Barankovics István Alapítvány, that supported his book’s publication, which approaches Hungary’s demographic problem from an entirely new angle. If I understand it correctly, in Benda’s opinion the reason today’s adults don’t want to have children is because in their childhood they missed a close and loving relationship with their mother due to the mother’s role as a wage earner. Well, I for one don’t buy Benda’s hypothesis, but if he had been satisfied with proposing a theoretical explanation for the low birth rate, I wouldn’t have given it a second thought. Unfortunately, he has scores of “suggestions” for how to remedy the situation. And the vehicle for his thoughts is the Christian Democratic Party.

The idea of a debate on Benda’s ideas organized by the Young Christian Democrats was quickly abandoned. As Népszabadság noted, they got scared by the vehemence of the negative reaction all around. As soon as the paper reported on the forthcoming debate, the chairman of IKSZ phoned. He denied that he himself had anything to do with the gathering and later announced that the group “supports the government, whose policy is to lower taxes” and therefore it doesn’t support any punitive tax on childless women.

Benda’s ideas are truly outlandish, as we will see a bit later, but the problem is that some of them have been circulating in Fidesz circles for a number of years. As early as 2006 Fidesz talked about an extra tax on childless people. In fact, during the campaign Orbán promised that if Fidesz wins the election they will introduce a tax policy where childless people will pay three times more taxes than those with three children. Luckily for people without children Viktor Orbán lost the election.

In June 2010, however, the topic surfaced again. Peter Boross, former prime minister and now an adviser to Orbán, suggested the introduction of an extra levy on childless people. At the same time an association established to represent the interests of large families suggested a 10% surcharge “to put an end to individual selfishness.” So, although Benda’s ideas might be outlandish, it is not outside the realm of possibilities that the Orbán government is seriously thinking about introducing some kind of punitive taxation on couples without children despite the fact that the Young Christian Democrats retreated.

A spoof on a famous recruiting poster from 1919. Instead "Into arms!" "Get pregnant!

A wordplay on a famous recruiting poster from 1919. Instead of “To arms!” (Fegyverbe!) “Get pregnant!” (Teherbe!)

Today HVG’s print edition reported that KDNP not only subsidized Benda’s book but most likely also asked him to develop an “action plan.” This action plan is truly outlandish. First of all, most of the suggestions are highly discriminatory. For example, Benda recommends an extra levy only on single women over the age of thirty, as if women alone were responsible for bringing a child into the world. These women would have to contribute financially to families with many children. Benda recommends limitations on abortions for women between the ages of 35 and 40. Infertile women may hire surrogates, something that is currently illegal in Hungary. Benda suggests easier adoption of infants, even from war-torn areas outside of Hungary. Placing babies before the age of one in day care or a nursery school should be forbidden. College students should receive stipends if they are ready to produce children during their college years. Every workplace with ten or more employees, including private companies, should hire a “demographic commissioner” who would be responsible for limiting the workload of women between the ages of 35 and 42. The government should launch a media campaign showing the success stories of women who gave birth at the age of 40. The government should financially support people’s dating, their weddings, the birth of their children, etc.

Hungarians by now know only too well that once these kinds of stories circulate, regardless of how crazy they sound, the government will eventually come up with something that it deems essential for its plans. Since traditional methods for boosting the Hungarian birthrate haven’t worked, they are willing to try unconventional ideas.

The kind of demographic change Viktor Orbán is dreaming about did happen in the early 1950s during the Rákosi period, when the government forbade the performance of abortions and levied extra taxes on childless men between the ages of 20 and 50 and childless women between the ages of 20 and 45. As a result, in 1952 the birth rate spiked: 250,000 babies were born. These people, now in their sixties, are called the Ratkó babies, after Anna Ratkó, who was the minister of health at the time. But then there was no pill and the borders were sealed.

Reading Benda’s wish list, one has the distinct feeling that he wants a dramatic change in the next year or two because otherwise the problem cannot be remedied. But without another set of “Ratkó babies” it cannot be done, and I very much doubt that the Orbán government would dare to cut back on the availability of abortions. Such a move could be suicidal.

In any case, Zita Gurmai (MSZP), former EP member, wants to know the truth: what Viktor Orbán is contemplating. She suspects that if Hungarians are not watchful, the same thing will happen to them that happened when the Christian Democrats insisted on closing stores on Sunday. First the government denies any such plans and then one day they become reality.

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Member

I would recommend the same for man. I would also raise the number and demand for 4 children by the age of 32. No public position to those who do or did not comply. This should be all retroactive because what kind of Hungarians are those who did not believe in the future of Hungary! ? Orban would be out of his job very fast!

spectator
Guest

While I support gender equality fully, sorry to say that your argument has some inbuilt flaws. By design, I’m afraid.
You see, man and women have not only different kind of plumbing, they have different kind of functions as well, which aren’t interchangeable.

Based on your demand: for example I, as a man can fulfil your quota within a few days — while those poor females involved must carry their load for nine months —normally, that is — and then tend the offspring for awhile, at any event.
Unfair, I’m well aware of the fact, but during that nine months I can “spread my seeds” given the circumstances all over the vicinity, — “mess around town” according to Hendrix — while all the woman still busy with the task number one..!

In short, — and I regret to say —I don’t think that your proposal has something to do with reality.

(Never mind, I’m not that eager to get involved in multiplication anyway, and just as good :))

Guest

London Calling!

Viktor Ceaucesçu just needs to introduce Decree 770.

This was introduced in Romania and made contraceptives and abortions illegal with harsh punishments overnight. It succeeded in increasing the population though – helped by the Roman Catholic Unchristian Church and the social spy network.

Women had to be monitored monthly and any noted pregnancies were closely monitored to term.

The doctors received bribes to overlook pregnancies from the wealthier population who then arranged an abortion for an even bigger fee.

However it might solve the doctors’ ‘remuneration problem’ already corrupted by ‘gratitude payments’ and envelopes. Sounds like a nice little earner! From Hippocratic oath to hypocritic oath.

Terrible death rates occurred when the poorer population sought back-street abortions.

Yes, Orban, why not introduce Decree 770 for Hungary? Kövér would worship you more. You can count on the Roman Catholic Unchristian Church’s support.

It’s amazing that this idea has been promoted by the ‘young christians’ of Hungary, wanting to impose it on fellow Hungarians.

Is it something in the water that produces these Christian Fascist Bigot Bastards?

Hungary! Only Hungary – and the meddling Unchristian Roman Catholics – and the KDNP.

More power to the evil Bishops!

Regards

Charlie

Guest

That poster picture is interesting.

There’s a massive statue in Hungary’s statue park that looks exactly like that – and with the flowing flag. It’s the biggest one in the park – enormous.

Must be a communist icon.

However it’s intimidating and frightening even in the statue park dump!

tappanch
Guest

Prohibition of the sale of alcohol both in the Hungarian Commune and in the USA.

comment image

tappanch
Guest

Numbers in the beginning of sentences are now suppressed in hung.spec.. The year was 1919.

spectator
Guest

Actually It’s quite a good work of — if my memory serves — István Kiss. In my opinion, that is.

It supposed to be intimidating, since it was a monument of the ’socialist revolution’, a quite violent event in the Hungarian history.

Honestly, in those ‘awful communist times’ they paid much more attention to artistic qualities than nowadays. Perhaps the establishment had more time to familiarise with their own shortcomings and learned (instructed?) to let the professional job to professionals.

Or else.

One thing for sure, in the last couple of decades being only a professional ass-licker didn’t qualified, — as opposed to the fifties and in the Orbanist periods — one must have some knowledge too in order to get such position.

(Oh yeah, among the qualified professionals the ass-lickers get higher in the totem pole, but being only “loyal party member” went out of fashion sometimes in the seventies.)

If the tendency holds true, we have a decade or two to see that kind of development in the contemporary Hungary too — or at least I hope so. Unless Orbán still the mightiest, who decide over just about everything, of course, then the present kitsch-dumping will continuo ad infinitum.

Guest

Just for the record:
There’s another EU “country” where abortions and the “pill after” are forbidden:
Northern Ireland
So women have to travel to England to get an abortion and many do as reported by the Guardian lately …

webber
Guest

No, Wolfi, not Northern Ireland – abortion is banned in the Irish Republic.
Irish citizens are travelling to the UK to get abortions.
Citizens of the UK, which includes Northern Ireland, have the right to abortions.
This is one of the (many) sticking points, incidentally – one of the reasons the Protestant majority in N. Ireland do not want to join Ireland.

Guest

Webber, I wasn’t commenting on catholic Ireland – the situation for women in Northern Ireland is really almost as bad, just look here:
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jul/24/northern-ireland-abortion-ban-endangers-women-says-un
In a critical report on the province’s abortion policy released on Friday, the UN’s human rights committee said the severe restrictions on terminations were putting Northern Irish women’s lives at risk.

Guest

Northern Ireland is less strict than the Republic – but both are steeped in Roman Catholicism.

In the Republic they have dilemmas about brain-dead pregnant women giving birth – where the clergy have not thought through their strict dogma.

It’s the Roman Catholic Unchristian Church again denying women freedom over their own circumstances.

petofi
Guest

One logical extension of the plan….Rape is ok if it results in a pregnancy!

Hajra Magyarok!

tappanch
Guest

How to cheat with the government’s 10+10 million offer ?

http://kiszamolo.hu/hogyan-lehet-csalni-a-csok-kal/

10 selected legal, semi-legal loopholes and illegal ways to cheat:

http://index.hu/gazdasag/ingatlan/2016/01/14/csok_csalas_trukkozes_tamogatas_ingatlan_lakas/

tappanch
Guest

Read the creative comments too.

A like this one: 80 years old woman marries 39 years old man.
The reason they will not have three children is definitely medical, so they
do not have to repay the gov’t money they get to build a new house.

Observer
Guest

Kafka + fascism. This nonexistent party is like taking vengeance on the voters for ignoring them.

tappanch
Guest

Observation. It takes long to cook the books.

The Hungarians Treasury has not disclosed the weekly debt data for more than three weeks. I have no doubt that it will show an excellent number for December 31.

tappanch
Guest

Online newspaper 444.hu, one of the last places in Hungary where people could still write their opinion freely has decided to introduce preliminary censorship. (Moderators will decide whether your opinion can appear at all, except for a white list)

Most other outlets stopped accepting comments for fear of “legal” repercussions earlier. (The Orban regime made laws holding the websites responsible for their readers’ comments)

http://444.hu/2016/01/15/vita-van-vita-lesz-de-maskeppen

webber
Guest

OT:
Former socialist Mayor of Ajka, Béla Schwarz, accused of 22 crimes by the Hungarian government, and just found not guilty by the court because of the LACK OF A CRIME after a trial lasting five years, had this to say of the government: “They accuse a person all over the press, they foul the reputation of innocent people, then after a trial lasting several years when the accused is found innocent, that gets hardly any coverage at all. This can happen to anybody.”
As reported in a very small column in Népszava (I bet the news is not in a single govt. organ)

Observer
Guest

Your post is not OT at all – this is another example of the repression used by the regime.
Tens of thousands fired, thousands investigated, hundreds accused, dozens detained and one of two convicted – repression light.

Guest

Interesting, isn’t it:
Our new commentors with those typical Hungarian names (Bálint etc) that were quick to crtizise the refugees, the German police etc have disappeared again – now that the discussion is about Hungary again …
Funny in a way …

Bálint
Guest

I realize that I am a bit of a square peg in a round hole in the left-liberal intellectual environment of this blog, but as mark Twain would say, the reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated . . . :-))

See my post below.

Bálint
Guest

And by the way, I am not exactly new to these pages. My previous usernames were Mike Balint for quite a few years, then ambalint after the WordPress system change, then lately became Bálint, after I got sick of having to constantly mess around with WordPress.

As for being a typical Hungarian name, until 1914 our family name was Blau, which my father changed to the Hungarian Bálint at that time. As a young man, he was a fervent Hungarian patriot until he got thoroughly disabused of his assimilationist delusions, unfortunately all too late for him.

e-2016
Guest

Unfortunately, otherwise decent liberal minds can not understand the morally renewed Germany.

Merkel’s Germany made a historic statement by accepting the Syrian/Iraqi refugees.

Germans can be regarded as moral champions of humanity today.

PS I met a few Black September Palestinians refugees in the Zirndorf camp in 1971.
They fled from Amman, and I hope they built a good life in Germany.

All Arab terrorists were the product of the Soviet anti-Western activities.

Saudi charitable princes made the mistake to support the Palestinian terror during the cold war.
Read Jamal Khashoggi about the Saudi awakening. Saudi policies catch up with Germany’s spirit now. Saudis are the best bet to end the Russian – Iranian terror.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=jamal%20khashoggi%20twitter

MEMRI on Twitter: “Archive: Jamal Khashoggi Discusses …
https://twitter.com/memrireports/status/648415786810372096
Sep 28, 2015 – Archive: Jamal Khashoggi Discusses Editorial Policy of Al-Arab TV, Criticizes #Saudi Treatment of #RaifBadawi http://ow.ly/SJDJD ..

Bálint
Guest
Fascinating. I have a modest proposal for Hungarians worried about Hungary’s demographic problem. There is actually a virtually instant solution to it. But how can such miracle be wrought? Well, there are supposed to be well over two million native speakers of Hungarian in Slovakia, Ukraine, Romania and Serbia. Over three quarters of a million of these people already vote in Hungarian general elections without paying a dime of tax to the government of Hungary. Should Hungarians be genuinely interested in solving their demographic problem once and for all, then instead of harebrained schemes to tax childlessness, they should simply get going with a super-generous immigration and resettlement program in Hungary for Hungarians living in neighbouring countries. An immigration and resettlement program, furthermore, that would be far too attractive to resist for the vast majority of Hungarians currently living in Slovakia, Ukraine, Romania and Serbia. Naturally, a hard hitting super-positive public promotional campaign would need to be launched post haste, with – among others – massive media support for the program and with huge posters everywhere, heartily welcoming the the newcomers, and carrying exactly the opposite message to that of the super-negative poster campaign of recent, that was intended to… Read more »
webber
Guest

Good idea, but too late. Ethnic Hungarians from Slovakia and Romania already have had the right to settle in Hungary whenever they want for some time now. A lot came from Romania in the early 1990s. As time went on, the numbers moving to Hungary decreased, so that when EU accession came and brought the full right to move to Hungary, and then when Hungary gave dual-citizenship (these people can move immediately – they already have citizenship), the number of people moving to Hungary was marginal.
Numbers moving decreased for the same reason that numbers of Hungarians are leaving Hungary – Hungary is no longer a very attractive country, comparatively.
If Hungarians are leaving Hungary (and you will admit they are) why would Romanian or Slovak citizens come to Hungary? To suffer poverty?
These days, Hungarians in parts of E. Hungary are going to Slovakia for work, not the reverse.
Ukraine and Serbia are potential sources of migrants to Hungary, but the numbers in those two countries aren’t huge, and many people from those countries will prefer to move to a more prosperous country than Hungary.

webber
Guest

Make Hungary prosperous, pay ordinary people a decent wage for work, and they will not leave Hungary. Give women real support they can survive on after giving birth, or guarantees of decent employment, and some who have no kids might even decide to have children.

Istvan
Guest
I am sure Webber and others know this, but I just want to point out that Hungary’s loss of citizens to the EU is not unique in Central Europe. About 1.2 million Polish citizens migrated in the years since Poland joined the European Union. Though its workers may have eased demographic difficulties in aging countries like Britain and Germany, Poland now also has a population crisis of its own. As we know very well here in Chicago, every year hundreds of skilled Polish tradesmen visit Chicago on tourist visas and work illegally for up to six months. That data is not reflected at all in this official data. Bulgaria has had the most extreme population decline in the world — mostly due to post-1989 emigration — combined with a high death rate and low birth rate. There are so few people of child-bearing age in Bulgaria that population statistics project a 30-percent decrease by 2060, from 7.2 million to just over 5 million. If you go to this story https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/in-sight/wp/2014/11/10/the-steep-decline-of-bulgarias-population-in-the-post-soviet-era/ there are simply some amazing photos of how abandoned numerous areas of Bulgaria have become. Romania lost on average 3.5 out of each 1,000 people due to natural causes, in… Read more »
Observer
Guest

Dreams, sweet dreams, which have been realized by the Fidesz top mafiosi.

tappanch
Guest

Sperm count declines:

33% in France in 16 years, 1989-2005,
57% in Hungary in 30 years, 1970s – 2000s )

http://www.csaladhalo.hu/cikk/egeszseg-es-lelek/egyre-kisebb-esely-drasztikusan-csokken-ferfiak-spermaszama

Suspects of the rapidly falling sperm count in the developed countries:

birth control pills (hormone residue in tap water) [I heard this at a Czeizel lecture]
sun cream, cosmetics (other articles)

Guest

Too much directed at Lajos Simicska?

Ron
Guest

Can somebody explain to me why a dropping birthrate today is a problem for the future?

webber
Guest

fewer kids, fewer taxpayers in future, and fewer people paying into pension funds to support us when we get old.
Biologically and ecologically, it’s great – unless you are a human.

Ron
Guest

You are right, but these kids need education, healthcare and also pension.

The thing is in future we can do a higher productivity with less people.
This is the current trend. In future the robots will take over our jobs (too far fetched, i do not think so).

Btw I am talking about the long term (twenty year plus) future and not short term.

As to fewer kids, people can save money for a rainy day.

Guest

Maybe but Robot production better get a move on.

For example in 2008 Hungary’s support rate was 3.9 according to the OECD. This will halve to 2.1 in 2050. That’s 2.1 workers for every old age worker. (This is the old-age support rate and excludes dependents below 16 years of age.)

However given the falling birth rate and given the improvements in health (and Hungary has one of the biggest margins to improve on!) together with low wages that won’t stay low means Hungary will have a bigger pension crisis than most.

These 2008 figures can’t begin to assess correctly the number deserting Hungary.

As the ageing population grows they’ll need an army of robots – almost half the old-age population.

(For the OECD support ratio report Google OECD + 47570029)

Guest

Pensions!

The number of workers supporting each pensioner – the ‘support’ rate – is falling fast exacerbated by those leaving.

Istvan
Guest

Excellent question Ron. Assuming more and more jobs will be eliminated by robotics on one level it may not be a problem at all for the future. On another level, population loss means a decline in total consumption and that can lead to profit contraction and absolute declines in production.

Member
How “cute” that some of the comments think this is about only money and tax base. Well sure there is a monitory issue here, but if you think about it for… maybe 1 second…. immigrants can also generate money via jobs (salary deductions) or economic activity (VAT taxes) (i.e. the German Model). But immigrants are rebuffed in Central Europe. This is not about money. This is not about a tax base. This is about ethnocentrism. This is about racism. This is about tribe, blood and soil. The nationalistic ideology growing in Europe is about “Nation States”, and the last time that was a major issue resulted in two world wars. The commentary from the Nationalistic governments are about nation states, and thus about ethnicity. The Hungarian government has at many times used “Hungarian ethnicity” in their commentaries. But what exactly is a “ethnic Hungarian”? I, for one, would love to see Orban’s DNA profile. I suspect he is less “Hungarian” than he claims. Yet he, and his party, uses this as a “thumping” point at every convenience. Overall, this “nation state” rhetoric is really a ruse. It is simply about a small group of tyrants trying to hold onto power… Read more »
Istvan
Guest

From what I have seen of Hungarian DNA studies probably very few of us are anywhere near pure. See http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/hungarians.html

Guest

Indeed.

Hungary, but for its inherent racism, had an opportunity to attract young, healthy workers with the refugee wave that traversed Hungary until it was stopped by the razor wire.

(However if I was a refugee I’d be pretty stupid to choose Hungary for refuge as I am sure Orban knew full well. It would have had to be an attractive package.)

Germany already had demographic imbalance problems and needed strong healthy males for its manufacturing industries.

Voilà! Angela Merkel has assured the economic future of Germany at a stroke – the recent so-called integration problems will be solved.

Integrated refugees are an investment – and pure GDP.

Hungary would never have transcended its latent xenophobia and racism, not to mention its Magyar cod-purism and Ayranism – to attract much needed workers for their failing industries.

Member

Many of the refuges in the last year were intellectuals. Trained in IT and other advanced fields. A potential boon to the Hungarian economy, but they were feared rather than welcomed.

Hungary is a country that rightfully and historically prided itself with its intellectual accomplishments.

But that was in no small part due to the historical Hungarian custom of welcoming foreigners into Hungarian society. Hungary use to be a beacon of Europe because of this welcoming societal standard as a bridge between the East and West. This stimulated many local inventors and thinkers to settle in Hungary, Aided, no doubt, by the Hungarian historical generosity toward different cultural and ethnic groups.

What the hell happened?

Today, the country is more mirroring the last century period of xenophobia, nationalism and ethnocentrism. What is “politically” important is overriding any long term economic importance (and maybe the EU is at fault for all its “grant” culture). For the short term political agendas maybe this is fine (i.e. election), but also, maybe, long term Hungary (economic) just shot itself in the head due to Fidesz (i.e. Orban) politics.

Istvan
Guest

Highly skilled imigrants are not worth much without capital. I don’t care how smart you are you need money to make money in a capitalist system. The USA can recruit foreign scientists and highly skilled workers because we have the capital for R and D, Hungary and most of Central Europe does not.

In fact a lot of R and D in Central Europe exists because it is liked to foreign firms and done at a lower cost than in Germany or other Western EU nations. Here is one of many articles discussing outsourcing R and D http://www.inc.com/guides/growth/outsource-research-development.html

Guest

Oops I don’t know what happened – except I lost my first attempt!

Guest

Yes except that EU funds are precisely for R&D.

If Orban had invested EU cohesion funds in R&D instead of village squares, real estate and castles he would have a much healthier economy.

That is if the embezzlement didn’t get the funds first.

Hungary has a very clever IT sector and instead of floundering would be a strong global force to be reckoned with had it been encouraged with R&D.

And voters had voted for their children’s future instead of cheap energy and energy bribes.

Istvan
Guest

EU Cohesion funds are not for R and D. All the projects are jointly agreed on with Hungarian officials. To understand the EU funds go to http://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/en/policy/what/investment-policy/
There are pages and pages of projects but the thrust of the projects are for trans-European transport networks, notably priority projects of European interest as identified by the EU. The Cohesion Fund supports infrastructure projects under the Connecting Europe Facility. The Cohesion fund supports projects related to energy or transport, as long as they clearly benefit the environment in terms of energy efficiency, use of renewable energy, developing rail transport, supporting intermodality, strengthening public transport, etc. Really R and D development is not part of the cohesion fund projects. Some of approved projects for Hungary are available via a link at http://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/sources/information/cohesion-policy-achievement-and-future-investment/factsheet/hungary_en.pdf

Guest

“Through its 11 thematic objectives, cohesion policy helps deliver the goals of the Europe 2020 strategy, the EU’s growth strategy to deliver smart, sustainable and inclusive growth. The cohesion policy funds will be the main investment tool for measures supporting employment, innovation, education, inclusion, and the shift towards a low-carbon economy.”

Innovation = Research and Development

Guest

There are other sources of funding for R&D too.

Observer
Guest

Come on, Istvan:

Regional Policy and Europe 2020 Strategy
http://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/en/policy/what/investment-policy/

Regional Policy has a strong impact in many fields. Its investments help to deliver many EU policy objectives and complements EU policies such as those dealing with education, employment, energy, the environment, the single market, research and innovation. ….
The five targets for the EU in 2020 are:

2. Research & Development: 3% of the EU’s GDP to be invested in R&D
….

Ron
Guest

Radium Potato: This is not about money. This is not about a tax base. This is about ethnocentrism. This is about racism. This is about tribe, blood and soil.

For soe Hungarian and some Immigrants this may be the case, but in case of Fidesz and Fidesz related parties it is about money, and according to me especially about the Structure Funds. The payment of these funds are based upon the number of people living in the country of Hungary.

I hope we can agree that the number of inhabitants of Hungary steadily decrease due to death and immigration to other EU countries. Currently, Hungary through statistics keeps the numbers artificially high, but for how long?

Only by a sudden surge of numbers they can state that it was always the case.

Btw VO stays in power by paying people big time. Again the question for how long?

tappanch
Guest

May 30, 2015.
“Germany replaces Japan as country with world’s lower birth rate”

Birth rate, crude (per 1,000 people) for 2013

Japan 8.2
Germany 8.3
Hungary 9.2

Canada 10.9
France 12.3
US 12.5
Australia 13.2

Turkey 16.8
India 20.4

Iraq 31.1
Afghanistan 34.1
Eritrea 36.7

Somalia 43.8

“Arno Probst, a member of the corporate governance working group of the IDW (German Institute of Public Auditors), said employers in Germany faced higher wage costs as a result.

“Without strong labour markets, Germany cannot maintain its economic edge in the long run,” he added.

Mr Probst said the country needed young immigrant workers to fill the significant skills gap.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germany-s-birth-rate-lowest-in-the-world-according-to-study-10286525.html

August 19, 2015.
German government declares an open door policy

Guest

You know for Dracula blood was the ‘life’. I’d think Germany is quite a bit close to realities that Hungary refuses to face.

Guest

Curious if Benda has thought about conducting a ‘Happiness Index’ internally on how the population views the quality of life there. Some startling serendipitous things could come out of the information….provided Hungarians are truthful and the questions are legit. And the government acts on it in ways which will help it manage the demographic changes going on in Hungary as well as Europe. Money thrown at the problem is simply a band-aid fix.

petofi
Guest

“…provided Hungarians are truthful and the questions are legit.”

Forget about both postulates.

petofi
Guest

Who in their right mind would want to have kids who would be:

1) mis-educated
2) indoctrinated with bogus Catholic teachings
3) taught to hate
4) will develop a massive sense of inferiority resulting in bitter hatred
toward all non-Hungarians
5) will be manipulated and exploited all his life
6) will have to live life with his tongue extended to perform the necessary condescensions to his bosses and political superiors.

Would YOU really want to bring a child into this reality?

Guest

petofi…You are certainly describing a dismal life. On the other hand what’s to be expected say of a geriatric based society looming up in Hungarian landscape if current trends hold for the country’s future? Where does that take them? To reference the great ‘Bard’ if the ‘old bees’ die those who are left possess the hive. We can make of that scenario what we will.

petofi
Guest

@Wrfree

The heaping shit storm that will fall on all Hungarians is fully earned…and deserved.

Latefor
Guest

I hope with all my heart that the Catholic (and other religious) teachings will be indoctrinated in the system.
Re: Hate
With all due respect, I do NOT see any Catholics spreading hatred on this site. OR – are they disguised?

Observer
Guest

They spread it subtly in religious education (híttan) classes, and not so subtly in “catholic”gatherings (e.g. Csikszerda) and from the pulpit. I live in Hungary and have personally heard many of these.

Latefor
Guest

I can’t believe this! Even the churches are bugged these days!? Poor priests/rabbis!

spectator
Guest

” I do NOT see any Catholics spreading hatred on this site.”

-They are busy in the Hungarian parliament and all in the Fidesz-KDMP-Jobbik dedicated media, of course they are note here, this site is far civilised to their taste..!

And allow a little room to their protestant brothers too, like Balogh and Semjén! If you ever wanted fundamentalist religious hatred, just read their statements regarding those “others”, and there you have it…
(And I still restrained myself to mention Semjén’s thesis on the “satanism” present in the music of Led Zeppelin! Attaboy!)

spectator
Guest

..are not here, — instead ‘note”, of course.

Guest

Like Stairway to Heaven!

Latefor
Guest

Led Zeppelin? He obviously never have listened to “Black Shabat” or “Metallica”! 🙂

Guest

Some of your “Christian” friends believe that
Rock music for years has propagated the number 666 — the Mark of the Beast.
Even a harmless girl like Britney Spears!
http://www.av1611.org/666/rock_666.html
And they also believe that Rock music was “invented” by the British intelligence services (and the Jews of course …) to destroy the world’s youth – really funny in a way …

Latefor
Guest
The question is: who is “the master of puppets”? (I’ll always be grateful to Metallica, it made me stop smoking. I did NOT allow the cigarette companies to “pull my strings.”! “Master Of Puppets” by Metallica End of passion play, crumbling away I’m your source of self-destruction Veins that pump with fear, sucking darkest clear Leading on your death’s construction Taste me you will see More is all you need You’re dedicated to How I’m killing you Come crawling faster Obey your master Your life burns faster Obey your master Master Master of puppets I’m pulling your strings Twisting your mind and smashing your dreams Blinded by me, you can’t see a thing Just call my name, ‘cause I’ll hear you scream Master Master Just call my name, ‘cause I’ll hear you scream Master Master Needlework the way, never you betray Life of death becoming clearer Pain monopoly, ritual misery Chop your breakfast on a mirror Taste me you will see More is all you need You’re dedicated to How I’m killing you Come crawling faster Obey your master Your life burns faster Obey your master Master Master of puppets I’m pulling your strings Twisting your mind and smashing your… Read more »
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