Teachers’ revolt is brewing in Hungary

I have the distinct feeling that something is afoot in Hungary, something the self-satisfied Orbán government is not prepared for. I see the beginnings of a movement that may well overcome the current apathy and resignation of Hungarian society and produce active resistance to the Orbán regime.

What do I have in mind? Primarily, the revolt of the teachers and the healthcare workers. It looks as if dissatisfaction in these professions is so great by now that a few brave people’s call for action has already moved thousands.

Today I will talk about the revolt of the teachers. It all started with a letter the teaching staff of a Miskolc high school wrote to the head of the local school board on November 27, 2015, complaining about the chaos created by the changes in the Hungarian school system since 2010. It is a well-known fact that the Hungarian education system is in shambles, almost exclusively as a result of the badly conceived and executed nationalization of all public schools.

Viktor Orbán’s harebrained ideas, as implemented by an old-fashioned schoolmarm, Rózsa Hoffmann (KDNP), have been a resounding failure. The third culprit in undermining the educational system is László Parragh, president of the Hungarian Chamber of Commerce and Industry, who convinced Viktor Orbán that blue-collar workers don’t need much education beyond being able to handle a hammer. The regime wants to lower the number of gymnasium graduates and increase the number of trade school graduates, who have minimal exposure to academic subjects. The Orbán government also wants fewer college graduates.

But back to the dissatisfied teachers. The letter that was signed by the whole staff of the Ottó Herman Gymnasium in Miskolc spent only one paragraph on their salaries, which have increased somewhat, along with their duties. Instead, they emphasized “the serious problems in the educational system that need immediate remedy.” Tinkering will not do. The whole system is faulty. The new centralized system doesn’t work. Both children and teachers are overburdened with classes that convey mostly useless information that doesn’t prepare students to become thinking individuals. Let’s sit down and honestly discuss what can be done. That is more or less the gist of the letter.

The teachers' room at the Ottó Herman Gymnasium where teachers are supposed prepare for their classes

The teachers’ room at the Ottó Herman Gymnasium where teachers are supposed to prepare for their classes

The head of the local school district who received the letter was sympathetic enough, but he couldn’t do anything. The system is so overcentralized that these problems can be remedied only at the very top. Eventually, the complaining letter was sent to Mrs. Czunyi née Judit Bertalan, undersecretary in charge of public education, who bears a suspicious resemblance to Rózsa Hoffman, her predecessor, both in looks and in methods. Since then, not a word from the ministry.

So, on January 7 the Ottó Herman Gymnasium’s principal and teachers decided to go public. The students immediately assured their teachers of their support. They were proud of them because now they can learn about democracy not just from their history books but also from their teachers’ action. On the very same day two organizations assured the school of their support: the Independent Student Parliament (Független Diákparlament) and the Network for the Freedom of Teaching (Hálózat a Tanszabadságért / HAT). The latter organization, whose members are teachers themselves, hope that the government will take the contents of this letter seriously. Just to give you an idea of the general dissatisfaction, even officials of the Orbán government-created Klebelsberg Intézményfenntartó Központ (KLIK) secretly assured the teachers of their agreement. And that’s not all. The president of the pseudo-association of teachers, Nemzeti Pedagógus Kar / NPK, created on the model of Mussolini’s corporatist scheme, announced that although the teachers of Ottó Herman Gymnasium don’t want to have anything to do with NPK, he is ready to support the initiative. He himself is a principal in Győr who complained to the local paper that KLIK has completely run out of funds. Schools are underfinanced. The situation is so bad that there are cities where teachers can have only one piece of chalk a day, or where there is no money for toilet paper.

Meanwhile more and more teachers, principals, and schools have joined the protest. Teachers of an elementary school in Törökbálint took it upon themselves to track the progress of the movement. They began a website, tanitanek.com (I would like to teach), where individuals, schools, and principals can register to support the initiative of the teachers in the Miskolc gymnasium. As of now 7,810 people have signed up.

The teachers in Törökbálint have their own initiative as well. One of the “innovations” of the Orbán government’s educational reform is something called “belső önértékelési csoport” (BECS). Teachers are supposed to supervise and assess each other’s work. One can imagine what effect such a practice can have on a small community. In any case, the teachers in this particular school are basically refusing to adhere to this demand. They already have 2,644 individual supporters and 44 schools, including some parochial schools, like the Lutheran Gymnasium in Budapest.

The word is spreading. Several schools in Budapest, Debrecen, Pécs, and elsewhere joined the teachers of the Ottó Herman Gymnasium. The most interesting development occurred yesterday when the Baranya Megyei Szakszervezetek Akcióegysége (Action Unit of Baranya County Trade Unions) added its name to the supporters. That means that workers in the processing industry, policemen, steel workers, and social workers are now also involved. Talks have been going on between one of the teachers’ unions and two healthcare activists, Mária Sándor and Tamás Dénes. Mária Sándor is trying to organize healthcare workers, and Tamás Dénes is working to create a united front of doctors, demanding fundamental changes in healthcare.

It looks as if this is a grassroots movement that should not be ignored by the government. But it seems that for the time being Viktor Orbán doesn’t sense the looming danger. There are about 140,000 teachers and about 100,000 people who work in the healthcare system. Yet János Lázár, in his regular Thursday kormányinfo (government info), instead of offering some soothing words, said: “Those people who don’t like their employer can express their disapproval at the time of the parliamentary elections.” What if these people, the majority of whom I suspect voted for Fidesz, actually follow his advice? And he added that instead of criticizing the present system, the teachers should concentrate on the quality of their teaching, which has resulted in declining test scores ever since 2002. “Teachers cannot act as if they had nothing whatsoever to do with this.” Not a good way to handle a potentially dangerous situation for the Orbán government.

Sort by:   newest | oldest | most voted
Istvan
Guest
Here is what I find interesting, yes I think Eva is right about many teachers being upset by all the education reform, but more about low salaries. One of my relatives in Esztergom is a teacher with a Masters’ degree and has 10 years of experience she gets paid about $865 (my conversion to USD) after taxes about $565 a month. She told me that she was relatively highly paid, she said many teachers are making only about $250 a month after taxes. She is an extremely conservative Catholic and she votes consistently for the KDNP, yet has many complaints about teachers pay. She speaks English fluently, and also Slovak, as does her husband. Most of her colleagues at Dobó Katalin Grammar School of Esztergom seemed to be over the age of 40, which was very different than in the USA. She told me that effectively teachers do not have the right to strike for higher wages and that the most militant teachers organization in Hungary was the Teachers Democratic Trade Union (PDSZ) but to her knowledge they had little support in Esztergom because they were communists. She also said law stipulates the number of obligatory teaching hours as 22… Read more »
webber
Guest

I agree with Istvan – if the government were to raise teachers’ and nurses’ salaries fairly drastically, there would be great satisfaction.
As to the idiotic results of centralization, and the regulations on reporting on one’s colleagues – teachers and principals in many schools have started to resist these by simply ignoring them. There’s a long tradition of this in Hungary that Fidesz has revivified with its micro-management of society.
Think of Fidesz’s rule on not smoking in bus stops (out doors!), and then take a look at a busy bus stop anywhere in the country. I’ve seen DRIVERS smoking in bus stops. Who is going to enforce the rule on not smoking in bus stops? Policemen who smoke?

Guest

In Nazi Germany, children were told to spy on their friends, parents and anyone and everyone else, and report any anti-Nazi inclinations. In communist Hungary, families were told to report on each other for similar anti-communist sentiments.

In Orbán\’s Hungary teachers are now to report on colleagues who stray from the nationalistic, racist, xenophobic and uneducated curriculum as devised by a proudly \”illiberal\” dictator.

At the Herman Otto Secondary School in Miskolc at last we have an organisation which will simply not toe the party line. More power to their elbow.

Member

I hoped so many times that something may happen to the Hungarian people for their best. I’m not sure if I’m capable of hoping once again. Hope should be the last to die.

Jon Van Til
Guest

Here are the numbers for teacher salaries in comparative perspective; https://talk.chalk.com/the-most-and-least-paid-teachers-in-the-world-76e312dc2cd1#.joivnwwhh. Hungary right at the bottom of the pile, along with Slovakia and Estonia.

Guest

Thank you Jon Van Til for posting that link to teacher\’s salaries world-wide. It gives a clear idea of the appalling state of affairs in Hungary, where the Orbán mafia enjoy unheard of wealth, while the citizens make do with crumbs left over from their sumptuous tables.

Member

And Hungary’s top scale teacher salary is the lowest of all (if I’m reading right — otherwise it’s the proportion the proportion that receives the top scale salary that is the lowest).

Guest

“classes that convey mostly useless information that doesn’t prepare students to become thinking individuals”

— isn’t this what Fidesz want? People who cannot think?

webber
Guest

It’s a Hungarian tradition.
(Petofi would put this better than I have – and he’d be right on this score).

petofi
Guest

(You called?)

The Hungarians have some bitter pills coming. So far, Orban has taken the citizen’s money and the country’s future, but the Hungaricoes have still to realize that the faux nationalism, and the regular helping of anti-semitic actions of the Orban mafia…do not give long term succor. The traditional pleasures of anti-semitism will prove to be hollow once Matolcsy and Orban spend the remaining 30 billion euros of the central bank, and the country’s bankruptcy leading to a depression and widespread joblessness will face them.

(Of course, Orban et. al. will be long gone.)

But, Hungarians will still have their homebrew,
and their Unicum,
and their soccer stadiums,
and their conceit that they’re the ‘best and the brightest’ (save
for the machinations of international jewry).

But fear not. The Siberian gulags of the east will magically move
to central Europe; and no future efforts to think independently
or worries about what to do…will ever trouble their sorry minds again.

Hajra Magyarok!

Observer
Guest

Ora et labora
A vulgarised version by the half baked Orban bunch. This is why they say that whatever Orban touches turns s..t.

Guest
When the KDNP are mentioned in conjunction with teaching ministers like the ex-minister Rózsa Hoffman my Roman Catholic Unchristian Church \’interference detector\’ goes berserk. That such a conservative establishment should be so closely involved with education is a travesty. Imagine the emphasis on creation and the conflict with physics – and the old-fashioned teaching techniques? KDNP\’s moral Sunday laws applied to education. Then there\’s the hospitals. Patients are now routinely ordered to bring four AA batteries to their hospital appointments for the blood pressure machines and two AAA batteries for the blood-sugar monitors. No batteries – no measurements. That\’s in addition to bringing your own toilet paper if you expect to use the (stinking) loos. Schools and hospitals have been on the financial edge for years now with only the minutest pay awards being awarded – where a promised, derisory 4000 forints ($14) monthly pay rise atomises by the time it gets into the nurse\’s account. Hospitals are so cold – as they save on heating – that a dialysis patient\’s blood comes out of the machines so cold that when it is put back into the body the person feels a deep deep cold in the body fundament that… Read more »
Guest

The above post was \’edited\’ by WordPress adding an additional \’/\’ to inverted commas!

Three attempts at edit failed.

Strange.

Guest

Test:
Hunky Dory was Bowie’s best work according to Charlie’s ‘erudite’ opinion.

End of test

Guest

Calling Some1!

The addition if a ‘/’ to inverted commas seems to be added by WordPress and is becoming a nuisance!

I hope it doesn’t get worse.

It’s happening to time4change too so it must be the website page that’s doing it?

I hope it stops.

Member

I will try to contact the “right department” but there is nothing more I can do…. Sorry!

Member

Probably SQL Injection protection being activated when editing (updating) comments. The single and double quotes are probably being escaped with the slash to prevent the injection threat.

So probably need to either fix the display/update method(s) directly, or try to use a WordPress hook to adjust displayed/posted text on edit to hide the problem.

Guest

Good one! The musical world lost a genius but we have his works to reflect on. As an artist he more than did his job with his fascinating contributions to music and art.

bengt
Guest

I can add that last week my wife had to buy and bring a blood pressure machine to a friend who got ill and had to go to the hospital. My wife also had to bring insulin because the hospital had not supply enough for malfunctions not related to the accute problem.

bengt
Guest

edit
should be “gauge” and not a “machine”
(sorry for my English)

Member
I would love to see a grassroots movement stand up to the Orban government. Problem is, I have never seen a grassroots movement in Hungary get beyond the initial protests. The protests against Orban’s free-press clampdown quickly fizzled due to general apathy. University students came out in droves against tuition fees, then promptly disappeard. No anti-government movement has legs unless it is organized by the elite. The only exception I can think of is Jobbik, and even in that case, it was the Fidesz-sponsored polgari korok that laid the groundwork. Why am I skeptical that the current dissatisfaction among teachers and health-care workers can weaken the government? Because Fidesz has too much power and can devise a way to defuse any threat. They might amend the laws on public organization to prevent teachers from protesting or striking. They might attack the movements’ leaders for past misdeeds, as we see in their current attempt to pulverize Baba, the public face of Migration Aid. They might take the wind out of healthcare workers’ sails by giving in to some token demands. If all else fails, Fidesz’s propaganda machine publicly accuses recalcitrant teachers and doctors of links to international terrorism, George Soros, organized… Read more »
Guest

The exception to the apathy about standing up to Orbán\’s mafia was when thousands of people demonstrated against the proposed internet tax, which was then quickly abolished with Orbán making an unprecedented u-turn.

It is such a shame that the only things Hungarian college students and younger generation care about is what is smack in front of their eyes, and only in their own interests, like the prolific use of the internet.

I am quite disappointed, in general, about Hungary\’ youth. So indifferent and so selfish.

Guest

Seems like WordPress adds a slash to your inverted commas too, time4change?

Guest

Yes it seems to be doing that. Not sure why?

Jon Van Til
Guest

My Hungarian friends think I am a hopeless optimist, but I agree with Alex Kuli that a grassroots/civil society effort (or set of efforts) could make a real impact. Here’s what I have been saying to the press when they ask me:

https://www.academia.edu/20229557/Talking_Points_in_an_Illiberal_Democracy

The challenge is to figure out how to connect social media protests to substantial organizational advocacy and campaigns. There are important roles for volunteer think tanks, web blogs like HS, the linking of professional protests, continuing attention from the international press, and the development of philanthropic support for civic dialogue, deliberation, and participation.

Guest
Thank you Jon Van Til for the link to your work, and also the Q and A bit, which is great. You mention the important role of foreign media in keeping an eye on Hungary, like a watch dog. Recently some commentators have shown concern about the BBC because their chief correspondent in Hungary, Nick Thorpe, has for over a decade been an apologist for Orbán and co. I understand that only when Kim Schepple herself complained to the BBC after one of his articles on her, that they finally sat up and took notice, and presumably gave a little rap on the knuckles to Thorpe? The BBC trusted their employee to report accurately about Hungary who then did no such thing and instead, in his own words, \”wanted to present Hungary [Orbán] in as attractive a light as possible\” by whitewashing Fidesz. That Orbán has managed to come this far in establishing a single-party state is in no small part due to the lack of understanding in the West about the danger Hungary presents in its influence, and viewers who trusted the BBC to present unbiased reports were unable to see through the haze of Thorpe\’s deliberate and calculated… Read more »
Guest

Yes – Thorpe is a disgrace and being part of the establishment of Hungary, with his Hungarian wife – I doubt if they’ll leave Hungary.

He has gone native with his family embedded in Hungarian society – and the BBC can’t move him like other journalists who serve a stint then move on – preserving their ability to report objectively.

However I have noticed other journalists on the World Service now reporting on Hungarian matters – at the expense of Thorpe’s monopoly so maybe they are trying to address the problem.

The absence of HS on his blog doesn’t surprise me – how could he tug his forelock at Orban – obsequiously as he does – with Eva in his closet?

Guest

Yes, I have seen a video of an interview he did on Orbán, along with other reporters, and it is painfully embarassing to watch his grins and as you say, forelock tugging while speaking to \”the great man\”.

And he will now love Orbán even more, since with 5 children, born here and attending Hungarian schools, and his Hngarian wife, he will now be a millionaire.

Member

Jon, thanks for the nice write-up. I like it.
“in my country a threatened cut of this magnitude would bring those cut off from such services into the streets”
There was a short period when protest followed protest, once or twice having had an effect. Then it all run out of steam. Perhaps something is really afoot now as Éva envisions it. I wonder what else should yet happen to reach a threshold that can make a revolt, apparently the only way seeming possible to get rid of this utterly distorted system.

“it is in their (present governing elite) interest to solve the many problems in their society”.
Many of us are not convinced. It is in their interest as much as it is necessary to keep them on power. Not an inch further. Their main organizing principle and activity seem to be centered around how much financial gain can be squeezed off of the system. We are right in the middle of a state capture.

petofi
Guest

There’s nothing afoot.

A Hungarian will throw over his group, or allies, or constituency at the sign of a few quid. They’re not alone.

A story (true): in 1996, the Serb opposition to Milosovic had huge success. There were European leaders going to Belgrade to march alongside; and some US senators too.
Just when they looked to have some traction, it died within a couple of days: Milosovic called in the opp leader–Vuk Draskovic–and made him mayor of Belgrade.

Hungarians are no better…

webber
Guest

For the record, Milosevic later tried to have Draskovic assassinated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibar_Highway_assassination_attempt

petofi
Guest

Rotten people never get assassinated. Note Hitler’s survivial.

Member

“I would love to see a grassroots movement stand up to the Orban government”

People will do things more effectively if they have a blueprint how to proceed.

http://www.aeinstein.org/nonviolentaction/

And, go here:

http://www.aeinstein.org/free-resources/free-publications/english/

And start translating. I do not think most, if any, of those are in Hungarian.

Start with this one:

http://www.aeinstein.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/198-Methods.pdf

Then spread the translations.

Magdi
Guest

I am a Hungarian teacher. I have been working for 29 years. The main problem is that the government withdrawed a lot of money from education. Now the government try to explain their decisions but they are unable to do because the system was under financed even previously so these are evidence consequences of an underfinanced system. How to operate this system? Me and all my colleagues have 26 lessons a week to teach. Add some preparation, correction, test making and correcting. Plus preparion for competitions. How many hours do we work? Look at the staffroom. How many PCs can you see? We have one in the staffroom. You are asked to make individual papers for students with bad abilities. I have 4-5 out of 17 in the same group. How much time to do it?
So you are asked to work on the highest level, do “perfect” lessons, visiting colleagues lessons, giving opinion on it, And all of them must be in written form.
These are what too much for us.

Guest

Incredible, Magdi – incredible.

…and very few PCs available in hospitals too.

Bowen
Guest

I can’t imagine that becoming a teacher is at all a desirable occupation in Hungary, which means there will be a crisis of a shortage of teachers in the next decade or so. And of course, Hungary wouldn’t want to encourage any foreign migrants to come here and take up a teaching position (regardless of how well-qualified they might be).

Guest

I am extremely sorry of Magdi\’s and all of the teachers\’ predicament in modern Hungary today. It distresses me so much as my parents , Magyars both, who were the ones to impress upon me the supreme value of education. Truly it has take me to realms I thought never thought possible. I\’d have the feeling if I wanted to go into every falu and speak about the great value of education I\’m afraid all I\’d be doing is fixing flat tires all the time.

To read of the idea that the Orban government wants fewer college graduates is the absolute stupidest and ridiculous goal of a country is beyond comprehension.
This could only happen if the goal of a society is to have a poorly imaginative and curious population not able to discriminate and order priorities personally and for the communities they live in. And that subjects them to being \’under the boot\’ where they lose the action of thinking for themselves. What a terrible world Hungary is making for itself. A post-modern tragedy in the making.

Bowen
Guest

Of course the Orban government wants fewer college graduates.

Since Fidesz came to power, the international rankings of Hungarian universities has plummeted. The number of university places has dropped by about 15%. And (bizarrely) Hungary now has the most expensive tuition fees in the EU (in relation to parents’ local annual salaries).

Guest

And may I add an additional comment? Years have passed and knowledge has accumulated in the arts and sciences, however, I will say the fact that my parents hardly had much education at all when they were children does not preclude making the observation that they indeed were prescient and smart to know what was needed to have a full, balanced and \’rich\’ quality of life. And the government on this? A tremendous fail. If these are the top \’intellectuals\’ they are truly the dopiest.

Hungary, I\’m afraid, refuses or simply doesn\’t care about this. It is no surprise that emigration has increased. Astute Magyars can see the writing on the wall within the fortress.

Guest

Yes, I\’m still trying to take it in.

A Senior teacher in England – Assistant Head Teacher – with much less experience than Magdi in an outlying school – not in a large city could expect to earn £50,000 ($71,000 or 21m forints) per year plus many additional supplements for additional skills.

I have a friend who works in a primary school in London and he earns nearly double this sum (before tax).

I guess Magdi earns 250,000 fts net monthly.

Unbelievable with that experience and dedication.

Bowen
Guest

Charlie, I know two primary-school teachers in Hungary who are very well-qualified, in their mid-twenties, and have to work very hard doing extra jobs (baby-sitting, etc.) to make ends meet. They are both visiting therapists because of stress problems.

Guest

And not forgetting that cost of living adjustments came to a dead stop in Hungary from the start of the GFC.

Guest

And just think how many PC\’s Gyurcyán\’s proposed \”visit dij\” (attendance fee) at clinics would have bought?
The successful smear campaign against anything and everything to do with Gyurcsány has been the ruination of Hungary.

Andrei Stavila
Guest

I’m afraid my beloved Hungary is becoming a Middle-Eastern state like Turkey. I have to leave Turkey in the following days for supporting academic freedom. Dark clouds are gathering over Europe, too.
http://bianet.org/english/human-rights/171152-investigations-universities-reactions-against-academics

https://solidaritytoturkishacademics.wordpress.com/about/

https://roarmag.org/essays/turkey-academics-for-peace-petition/

Member

One small correction: Czunyiné is the name.

I completely agree with the analysis, this movement can easily escalate, especially if this governing mafia is up to its usual stuck-up form.
A nice glimpse into their thinking is the example of naming of “belső önértékelési csoport”, BECS that is a short form of “honor”. This is a second version of the original “pedagógus önértékelési csoport”, that was widely used in its derisively acronym form PÖCS, e.g. dick. Knowing the function of this “organization” leaves no doubt how far cry it is from honor and how close it is to the other reality.

Orbi
Guest

Orban bets on the Republicans. He is right.

Trump or Cruz will easily defeat Sanders or Clinton and will not waste a minute to do at the federal level what governor Walker is now doing in Wisconsin. Vision and discipline mean victory, the Democrats just don’t get it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/17/opinion/campaign-stops/the-destruction-of-progressive-wisconsin.html?hpw&rref=opinion&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=well-region&region=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well&_r=0

Guest

London Calling!

That\’s not the way it\’s being seen on this side of the pond.

Let\’s hope Orban misreads it with the usual Hungarian squint.

Lose lose lose lose.

Wrong wrong wrong

Regards

Charlie

webber
Guest

All poll data collected by any agency you wish to name shows that if the Republicans choose Trump, he will lose against any Democratic candidate. Just look at the data for yourself.
Cruz could win, but I wouldn’t put money on it at this point.
If the Republicans choose Trump, I might head straight to London to bet on the Democrats. The payout will be very small, but it will be a sure bet.

webber
Guest

P.S. Tell us, Orbi, which “winners” has Orban picked in elections internationally so far?
I can’t recall a single one.

Guest

Nuts.

Member
Lazar: ““Those people who don’t like their employer can express their disapproval at the time of the parliamentary elections.” This is coming from a Hungarian minister who not long ago declared: “If you have nothing, you worth nothing!” As far as ” teachers can have only one piece of chalk a day, or where there is no money for toilet paper.” They should take the kids to the soccer stadiums built from taxpayers money. There is heated grass there, so they can even have a picnic, and I am sure there are plenty of toilet paper. Orban does know what matters. Some sense actually I sympathize with Lazar. Most teachers and doctors voted for Orban’s regime. The signs were on the wall, but they simply ignored it. Simicska also ignored what Orban is about. The attitude in the past and present “It will not happen to me if I comply.” On a certain way I have no soft spot for many teachers, as they did vote for Orban. My only concern is that the same teachers, who supposed to be educators will vote for Jobbik. Their own education did not include critical thinking. They do not see the dangers, they… Read more »
Member

KLIK started an investigation regarding the supporters of the Miskolc initiative. A teacher who signed the support letter was contacted by KLIK, and KLIK started to inquire about her from her boss and fellow teachers.
Others from fear of retribution removed their names and their school’s name as supporters.

So those idiots who keep coming on this forum and force feed the readers about how democracy is well in Hungary: “Give me a freaking break!”

http://www.delmagyar.hu/szeged_hirek/mar_nyomoz_a_klik_de_nem_fel_a_pedagogus/2459782/

Reality Check
Guest
Guest

Yes, the covert infomer system continues in all but name.

It happens to striking nurses too as I mention above.

Commocratic de-mock-racy lives.

Long live the Dear Leader!

petofi
Guest

But dear Some1, Hungarians are being ouched for what they truly have earned and deserve.
What’s the fuss?
Remember this: you shall reap as you sow…
After 1944, what do Hungarians deserve? Well, they got it!!

Member

I was wondering if anyone would mention the KLIK investigation in the comments. I am glad you brought it up.

cseresznyes
Guest
Orban will – in due course – increase the salaries of teachers and the teachers will – as they always do – vote for Fidesz again. In Hungary teachers are conservative and especially rurally represent the small elite which is uniformly conservative, so they almost never vote for a “communist”. The left wing is in a terrible shape: local elites are anti-communist and the working class is now steadily pro-fidesz and pro-jobbik. The left became the party of the urban liberal elite a minuscule fraction of the society. Orban doesn’t care about the teachers because they will vote for Fidesz anyway. It’s like the fidesznik mayors of Sopron or Budapest district XII don’t do anything because they will get reelected anyway. Why bother? The teachers have various trade unions who assisted any and everything Orban did, nobody said so much as a beep. The teachers will not do anything because they – deep down – still admire Fidesz and detest the leftist-liberals with their cocoa-proof computers and “understanding” of misbehaving (often criminal) kids. Fidesz showed that they get what it is like to be a teacher under pressure from entitled parents and misbehaving kids who cannot be disciplined because it… Read more »
Member

if the do not vote for “communists” they should stop voting for Fidesz, In the parliament the most ex-communists are Fidesz members, including Orban and Kover! These are teachers who do not exercise critical thinking. It is scary as these are the people who should raise a new generation of creative thinkers. Many teachers are fans of KDNP (Christians). They are more committed to the fake morals projected by their phoney party that they are committed to the children who they supposed to teach. What I am saying is that with a few exceptions teachers (and doctors) got what they paid for! I do have at least 5 teacher friends in Hungary, and I love them, but their “politics” are dreadful.

Member

@Some1 — I read all your posts on this topic. You have an erudite understanding of the issue and clarity of expressing them. I wish I could have said it as well as you did, but I doubt I could have. Nicely done.

Guest

You’re mad.

And a racist …….

Ndy - a complot II (fr.)...
Guest
Ndy - a complot II (fr.)...

We’ve arrived at a new crossroads here in Hungary.

— the government’s contol over the judiciary is TOTAL – in cases where it matters,.

— training for the future to be ‘alázatos’ (servile) servants for the Feudal Orban Lords is evident.

There must be an intention to force as many thinkers abroad as possible and suck away moneys from social, educational and health services.

I think a last-resort strategy of eventual escape for the leaders will be Azeirbaijan but this is not envisaged.

Long term plans are simply to make this country into a fiefdom, leave the EU and run a standard kingdom of Hungary, structurally of the middle-ages with occasional spikes of sample modernism thrown in for good measure.

This transformation would take place first gradually and then speed up, over about 12, max 15 years.

Mark my words. This is the attempt.

As of now Id say there’s a good 40% likelihood of their success at this.

webber
Guest

If they’ve even thought about escape routes ( and why would they? They are sitting pretty), my guess is that Moscow will be the preferred destination. It’s where Slobodan Milosevic’s brother, wife, and son found refuge.

petofi
Guest

“Not a good way to handle a potentially dangerous situation for the Orbán government.”

Perhaps, but the only thing keeping Lazar ‘alive’ is to show a willingness to stand up to a wind-storm similar to the little soccerist. But it don’t matter: Lazar is done. Orban’s just waiting for the right time to lower the boom.

wpDiscuz