The Visegrád Four and the “Prague Declaration”

Today is the twenty-fifth anniversary of the formation of the Visegrád Group (Visegrád Four or V4), an alliance of four Central European states: the Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, and Slovakia. The original purpose of the alliance was to further these countries’ integration into Europe. In addition, the member countries aimed at improving their military, economic, and energy cooperation. The agreement was signed in the castle of Visegrád. Why Visegrád? It was there that in 1335 Charles I of Hungary, Casimir III of Poland, and John of Bohemia agreed to create new commercial routes to bypass Vienna and obtain easier access to European markets. Today the leaders of the four countries gathered in Prague to contemplate a plan that might isolate them from the rest of the European Union.

torta

Michal Kořán, a Czech foreign policy expert who was interviewed today on the Czech public radio station, said that what concerns him is that “the Visegrád group was conceived as a means to overcome borders” but “today’s summit is aimed at recreating borders again.” He is not at all sure which way the Visegrád Four is heading. These countries are at a crossroads. They can either think about “how to make the region more competitive, more interconnected” or, and he is afraid the Visegrád Four is heading in this direction, take a stance of “being defensive, … being closed, and … being obstructive.”

Slovakia’s president, Andrej Kiska, reminded the members of the Visegrád Group of its original purpose: European integration. “The voice of four is more effective and more convincing” but, he added, “the member states must learn to make common decisions and take responsibility for the European Union as a whole.” Kiska, who in 2014 squarely defeated Fico in the campaign for the presidency, is a rare voice not just in Slovakia but also in the region. His counterpart in Poland, Andrzej Duda, holds a very different view. He is convinced that the views expressed by the current leaders of the Visegrád countries are “logical and well established.” According to him, “rich Western Europe doesn’t understand us. Since no one else helps us, we must help each other.” Mr. Duda’s memory seems to be very short.  He conveniently forgets the European Union’s financial assistance as well as NATO’s protective umbrella over the Central European states, including Poland.

Yesterday Angela Merkel warned against the plan put forth by Viktor Orbán, which is now being contemplated by the Visegrád Group, to erect a fence to seal Greece off from Macedonia and Bulgaria. In fact, as Reuters reported, Berlin officials have already sent letters to the governments of the Visegrád Four expressing Berlin’s disapproval of the plan. This letter was most likely strongly worded because Martin Schäfer, the spokesman of the German foreign office, said in reply to a question by a reporter that “it is not a mistake to call [the letter] a démarche.” Schäfer also expressed the German belief that Greece should have been invited to the V4 summit. After all, a fence along its border is also Greece’s concern. Steffen Seibert, the de facto press secretary of the Chancellor’s office with the title of undersecretary of state, emphasized that it is a mistake to suppose that Germany wanted to prevent the meeting in Prague. “It only wanted to call attention to the common European responsibility,” which the Visegrád Group is ignoring at the moment.

How much do we know so far about the meeting? The four prime ministers released the “Prague Declaration” in which they called attention to their concern about a divided Europe. They fear that the West European countries will form their own Schengen zone and will leave them behind. The declaration emphasized that they, for their part, will do their best to prevent such an event, and they expressed their hope that “our European partners share our aspiration and will work with us in this spirit.” All that sounds innocent enough, but what Viktor Orbán said after the meeting is less promising. He recalled that in 1991 and for a while afterward the main aim was the integration of these former communist countries into Europe. But “now we want to be equal partners,” especially since the European Union needs these countries more than ever because they are the engine of Europe’s economic growth. In his opinion, whatever the EU has done up to now concerning the refugee issue “has failed.” The member states must “contemplate the erecting of a second line of defense” along the northern border of Greece. Hungary is ready to share all its resources to build such a fence. He predicted that 38.5 million refugees may descend on Europe in the future.

Orbán was strongly supported by Beata Szydło, the Polish prime minister. According to her, the “Prague Declaration” aims at achieving “a better European understanding of the common viewpoint of the Visegrád Group.” And Fico strongly supports Plan B, which Szydło found absolutely harmless as far as Greece or anyone else is concerned. Fico immediately offered 300 Slovak policemen who could stand by this second line of defense. The Visegrád Four wants “a strong Europe, and a stronger European Union needs a strong Visegrád Group.” This sentence echoes Viktor Orbán’s overblown ideas about the importance of Hungary and the region in general to the well-being of Europe.

I suspect that the Czech Republic is less sanguine about building a second line of defense, closing Greece off from the rest of the continent. I base this opinion on what Bohuslav Sobotka had to say after the meeting. He expressed his hope that the understanding with Turkey will bring results. He added that “the Visegrád countries support a common solution because the problem cannot be solved by any one country.” He emphasized that Greece must obey all the rules laid out by the Schengen agreement. I consider these statements an indication that the Czech Republic at least didn’t wholeheartedly line up behind Viktor Orbán’s dangerous, unworkable ideas.

February 15, 2016
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Observer
Guest

Eva,
Congratulations, again. Great report! Very informative.

Guest

London Calling!

“The original purpose of the alliance was to further these countries’ integration into Europe.”

Well it clearly isn’t now.

The Visegrad Four are set to be a troublesome group in parallel with the EU.

Visegrad For Trouble.

With their own agenda.

“Give us our dues (grants and cohesion funds etc) but this is what we want…..”

Led my Orban’s double-speak skills they are following the madman.

Juncker and Merkel are fools if they don’t stamp on this group. As they get more brazen the EU will become hostages to fortune – they will be a cancer in the EU body politic.

They need to make an example of Hungary – ejection if they don’t comply with the democratic values; ejection if they don’t clean up the corruption with Olaf auditing everything; and withdrawal of voting rights until they come to heel.

Stop the cancer before it metastasises.

It’s already spread to Poland.

Regards

Charlie

Observer
Guest
“Stop the cancer before it metastasises” my words too, but unfortunately EU did close to nothing. Here’s what I wrote in Dec. 2011 The political events in Hungary, small as the country may be, still have some direct bearing on the financial systems of the EU and the OECD. To make things worse, Orbán’s rhetoric and acts regularly make the news and serve as a reference and encouragement for such forces, their leaders and supporters in other countries. In the current economic difficulties, which are to stay with us for some time, there is an acute need for credible, responsible government in Europe. The immediate challenge is to conduct the necessary, but painful reforms without triggering social upheaval. Competent leadership and successful reforms are the only way to improve the OECD economic and social conditions in the medium term. Mr. Orbán’s regime offers none of these remedies (as no such regime does), quite to the contrary, it is part of the problem. Therefor, if Hungary or the OECD countries are to progress and resolve their problems, this kind of populism, extremisms and all sorts of radical, unorthodox “third” or “forth” ways should be discouraged and actively opposed, if need be.… Read more »
vivahans
Guest

correct diagnosis, too bad you got the patient wrong – the cancer is the EU – there is only one solution.

Common Sense
Guest

The EU is not the problem. It is a set of institutions. The question is who controls the institutions. The more centralized it becomes, the more valuable a prize it becomes.

petofi
Guest

Putin, through Orban, has a little surprise for the EU–maximum obstructionism from the four beginning with the ostensibly selfless plan to build that bloody fence….and thereafter, when the EU moves against the four–economically at first, then expulsion–Russia will be ready to provide economic assistance and political protection.

And then, Hungaricoes, as we used to say in the 60’s of the Cuban missile crises….bend down and kiss your ass good-bye.

Guest

Bee-you-tee-ful strategy for the V4. Profess such great fealty to EU \’unity\’ as a bloc that appears they would die for. As they pull themselves in the EU direction it would appear that that has to bring a corresponding tug from the \’eastern\’ end. Hey watch it. Don\’t forget about us. The \’accommodations\’ that perhaps could follow later on from all this are all in a great Putinian grab-bag. Yes, the EU better watch out as the V4 to manage their relationships on both sides is looking to really to squeeze all the \’oil\’ out of this olive.

And further if they\’re all in this now in a bloc it saves a lot of paper and time in the political nuts and bolts of getting them all \’within the tent\’. Now they\’re in a group ripe for hearing the siren political and eco call of Vlad as his mellifluous voice will sing out out from the Moscow steppes.

Guest

Started already:
\”Austria’s Chancellor plans to restrict the number of foreign employees delegated to Austria by their parent company and would set a time limit to their employment in the country, daily newspaper Österreich reported on Sunday. He mentioned Hungarian workers as an example to disproportionality in wages.\”

So he wants to send Hungarian workers home …

http://www.portfolio.hu/en/economy/chancellor_faymann_seeks_to_restrict_foreign_employment_in_austria.30895.html

That fence around Hungary that Orbán is building will have its uses then …

Guest
The proposed fence along the Greek-Macedonian border will be about as effective as giving “cups of hot air to the dead”, to use an old Hebrew saying (kosot ruach lemet). It will easily be bypassed via Albania and Bulgaria or along the Adriatic shorelines, or even crossed by means of a couple of long ladders and some old flour sacks, or for that matter tunneled under where not running over solid rock. Greece itself is a poor, backward Levantine country, not much different from Lebanon or Egypt, a wonderful little place to visit for a short holiday that was however a heck of a blunder to incorporate in the EU and the Schengen zone – a genuine triumph of hope over common sense – not to mention the Euro zone, where Greece’s incorporation was sheer and utter insanity. Incidentally, it sounds very much like the EU is now considering to top its grand “achievement” in respect of the incorporation of Greece by also moving to incorporate Bosnia-Herzegovina, a former administrative division within old Yugoslavia that could not possibly be considered a sovereign nation by any stretch of the imagination. To a simpleton like myself, it would have made a lot… Read more »
vivahans
Guest

Schengen must end – it’s not viable with the disparities between EU countries not to mention b/t EU & ROW.

Common Sense
Guest

Schengen is premised on appropriate external controls. Since there aren’t any, there is no Schengen. Schengen could be broken up into mini-Schengens. France and Belgium. Germany and the Netherlands. Span and Portugal. Or the Visegrad countries.

Guest

OT

A highly insightful article by a noted francophone Arab author about the profoundly psychotic medieval attitudes of Arabs to women and sex, well worth reading:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/14/opinion/sunday/the-sexual-misery-of-the-arab-world.html?_r=0

This is real and a huge part of reality in Arab societies, and one of the key reasons for the unbridgeable cultural gap between a post-modern and post-Christian Euro-Atlantic world and an Islamic world mentally stuck in the early Middle Ages.

Well worth contemplating the implications of this when considering the pros and cons of mass Arab immigration to Europe.

Guest

And there is not just an unbridgeable cultural gap, but utterly irresolvable tensions between the nutually alien Arab and Western value systems and mentalities. I wish very good luck to Europe and extremely good digestion to cope with all that over the coming decades. Because otherwise it will be the somewhat uncomfortable case of having the darned thing stuck in the throat of Europe, something that Europe will neither be able to swallow nor spit out.

Reality Check
Guest
The only unbridgeable gap is in the one in your head. Forty years ago the attitudes in the west were not too far from those of some Muslims – man is the money winner and the women takes care of the house and children. And in some EU countries attitudes towards women are 30 years behind western Europe. You only need look at Hungary as an example of a failure to provide equal opportunities for women. On a recent visit with a group of academics, the male PhDs had no qualms about asking and having the one women PhD serve them coffee. There was no taboo against sexist jokes in this professional setting. “The stereotypical and common practice, according to which child-raising and the household are the women’s responsibility, dominates the Hungarian nation. The woman performs 80% of household tasks, even if she is the one with the higher paying, more prestigious job. According to the Global Gender Gap index of the World Economic Forum, Hungary dropped from number 60 in 2008 to even lower, to number 85 at present. The social position of women has shifted in the opposite direction to the global development trends of the past 20… Read more »
Guest

asking and having the one women PhD serve them coffee
That’s a funny coincidence!
This was a picture joke in one of our German magazines around thirty years ago – but it’s still true in Hungary …

Guest

@Reality Check
Today 9:50 am

Gimme a break Reality Check. Have you read the article I referred to, or are you just going off half cocked at leisure? Got any real knowledge about the Arab ways regarding sex and women or are you just venting hot air? I promised myself I wouldn’t wander off again to OT issues, because this annoys his highness webber, but I couldn’t leave your non sequitur nonsensical rant without a riposte. And the best of luck with your nice Arab gentlemen who according to your piercing insights are a mere forty years behind your oh so post-modern attitudes to women and sex. And next time, if you keep a civil tongue in your mouth, then I shall keep a civil tongue in mine.

vivahans
Guest

some of us might say that the best use for the owner of this blog would be to serve coffee – though, I suspect, she would spill it a lot. Shaky minds, shaky hands.

Common Sense
Guest

Perhaps. Perhaps not but not the best way not to get deleted.

Observer
Guest

@Reality Check

Just in case you check this.

I have spent years in the Arab world and unfortunately Ambabint’s point is true and relevant. Hungary may be another bad example (in Europe), but doesn’t change the former point.

Guest

Duh?

Guest
OT The bull in the china shop . . . . US strategy in the Middle East and Central Asia has been an inscrutable mystery to me for quite a long time now, in fact – let me think – since about early 2004. At that time, I couldn’t make any sense of why invade Iraq whilst leaving Afghanistan half cooked, then instead of grabbing some other brutal Sunni gangster instead of Saddam Hussein, and putting him in charge of a still intact Iraqi army and secret police (Mukhabarat) as “our bastard,” the Americans proceeded to quickly dismantle the army and secret police, then started at once to spread the blessings of liberal democracy among the supposedly welcoming denizens of Mesopotamia. On beholding all of that with a sense of profound puzzlement, I became firmly convinced back then that the Americans became completely unhinged and simply lost the plot. I haven’t changed my mind about this and continue to remain utterly puzzled about the senseless threshing about of the American bull in the Middle Eastern china shop. Why get involved in wars that are patently unwinnable by conventional means? Viet Nam was not enough of a lesson? Apparently not. But… Read more »
webber
Guest

back to Hungary, pls.
Not everyone shares the obsession with the Mid-East.

Guest

Thank you webber. Your sagacious reprimand is a shining example of the highest standards of rectitude and correctitude. I stand in awe at this display of high ethics and profound morality.

Guest

Mike, like many others I have given up trying to understand the different US governments’ ideas about policy/democracy/you name it, especially in the East …
Not even Istvan here can put logic into it – though he has given us a lot of insights, thanks btw!
And webber is right!

Guest

The reason why I posted that OT piece above on “the bull in the china shop” was simply that I used the phrase in the last sentence of my previous post, and thought it might be worth explaining why I thought that way even though in many, many respects I am very much on America’s side, and have always been so. I regret that the post seems to have annoyed some people and I shall abstain from posting on OT issues in the future.

Guest

Mike… You have no problem with \’powah\’ right???? That ain\’t OT in my book. That\’s all we seem to talk about here if we think about it. The wielding of it and the utilization of it. And HS is a place to study it. A classroom every day, eh?

Observer
Guest

Quite so.
But maybe there is no such thing as “the solution”, just contention of the problem, e.g. Cyprus, Balkans.

@Webber

[The US] “started at once to spread the blessings of liberal democracy among the supposedly welcoming denizens of Mesopotamia…”

Re Europe – the above would have been true for the “denizens of Hungary/Central Europe”

Guest

You are right. There are social and political problems that are not currently solvable, though some are manageable with care and attention. In Hungary, the Roma issue comes to mind. Mathematics too has unsolvable problems, some of which however actually turned out to be solvable after hundreds of years of trial and error.

petofi
Guest

Well, perhaps we should visit that nugget of genius that Eisenhower threw at the tail-end of his 2nd term: “Beware of the military-industrial complex…” It might even be enlightening to check the share price of the major arms industries in the US in the last 10 years…

Reality Check
Guest

Do some fact checking before going on an anti-US rant.
http://time.com/4145903/islamic-state-oil-syria/

And perhaps you should mention the other bull – Russia. A nation with no qualms about using stupid bombs and cluster bombs on civilian targets. At the least the US tries to minimize collateral damage, while Russia may be deliberately causing it to force a destabilizing flow of more refugees into Europe.

And there seems to be a pattern of deliberate targeting of hospitals by Russia.

From Oct. 2015
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/22/three-syrian-hospitals-bombed-since-russian-airstrikes-began-doctors-say

From Feb,. 2016.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/15/middleeast/syria-hospitals-strike/

petofi
Guest

Reality Check,
I’m more pro-American than you’ll ever be…but I still see the cracks and the fissures–Unfortunately, the benefits of war to the American economy (in general) and to certain American industries in southern California (in particular), is a long-standing truism.

To a great degree, American foreign policy is driven by oil interests (see the Bushes and the Saudis) and the needs of the military-industrial complex. *Not so much oil anymore, it seems.

Guest

Re: \’needs of military-industry complex\’

Not only for the United States but for Europe as well since the continent isn\’t exactly breaking the bank on defense. Granted the US isn\’t giving the crow bar to break European wallets but if there is cynicism I\’d suggest that would need to be balanced and understood with consequences.

Consequences that could impinge on the US perhaps decoupling itself from Europe one day. That \’MIC\’ exists to hold off predations which continually exist and hover over a not very confident Europe. Once there was a \’German problem\’. Doesn\’t take a political genius to know now we have a \’Russian\’ problem. Orban and the rest of his like-minded company are now trying to expand those \’cracks and fissures\’ between the east and Europe. And he\’s certainly fixing the roads to drive traffic his way and to his pals. And he tries to get it all with \’discounts\’.

Guest
@wrfree Today 12:23 pm The cracks and fissures have always been there between East and West in Europe, and neither are they going to disappear any time soon, because the cultural, political and mentality fault lines run far too deep between the two blocks. Orbán & Co are merely exploiting these fault lines cunningly for the purpose of keeping the average Hungarian Joe down, the EU and America out, themselves in power for decades, and their pockets and bank accounts full with the money for jam from Brussels. The root cause of the problem is that it was sheer insanity on the part of EU to allow the East Block countries and Greece to join without having set the bar for qualification to join and for continued membership in the club far, far higher. As a result, the incorporation of the East Block in the EU was a farcical case of the triumph of hope over common sense that cannot now be undone and put in the reverse because the careers and personal prestige of numberless bigwigs in Brussels and in the core funding countries in Western Europe depends on pretending that this Rube Goldberg contraption that they have created… Read more »
Guest

You know based on your analysis it sure looks that the Magyars made a big mistake by giving VO and co power. In hindsight a jumble of a mistake that I don\’t see them crawling out of anytime soon. Yes the \’savior\’ apparently walks on water. Time after time these purveyors of power continually get the \’passes\’ to continue their nefarious activities.

On the other hand perhaps the \’deluge\’ awaits as the population will slowly come to the conclusion that \’robbery by law\’ cannot continue if they want to protect themselves from eventually living in a lost and disoriented land where corruption eats everything alive and continually works its ways in transactions and human relationships. At bottom really it\’s a sickness unto death for the people and the country. For survival it would look like they cannot be \’faked out\’ anymore. This is serious business.

Guest

It sure is.

But don’t hold your breath for positive change in Hungary any time soon, because Orbán & Co. are just symptoms of the Hungarian cultural inclinations, political comfort zone and mentality that they faithfully reflect, and decades upon decades of persistent purgative effort would be needed to change that over several generations, which is just not going to happen. Guaranteed.

vivahans
Guest

are you a sinister diabolic force? I mean you are incessantly machinating. So is Orban right?

Common Sense
Guest

“persistent purgative effort” – that could be code for a Hungarian version of the Holodomor. If I were Hungarian, I’d be very afraid.

vivahans
Guest

Soros claims that it is the Russians that are causing this disaster. What Soros doesn’t tell you is that he is paying the Russians to do so.

Observer
Guest

Please, you not only embarrass yourself, but lower the quality of the blog.

Common Sense
Guest

You’re upsetting the groupies. Keep it up and they might have a bowel movement.

Observer
Guest

Dumbo !

webber
Guest

It doesn’t seem to have occurred to them that if they want to build a fence in Greece or Macedonia, they will first need the approval of the Greek or Macedonian government.
These leaders, who object so much other countries pushing them around, are openly planning what to do in Macedonia and/or Greece.

Tyrker
Guest

They have invited the Macedonian president and the Bulgarian prime minister.
Given that the fence is supposed to be built on Bulgarian and Macedonian soil, there is no real need to seek the approval of the Greeks. Of course inviting them would have been nice nonetheless, albeit completely unnecessary.

webber
Guest

Tyrker – Imagine this scenario: Austria, Germany and Luxembourg have a meeting at which they decide the thing to do would be to build large wall in Hungary between Hungary and Slovakia, and announce that this is what they would like. Then they invite the PM of Hungary to discuss their plans…. What do you think the reaction would be?
If I were President of Macedonia, at a minimum I would call a few ambassadors in to give them a dressing down. I would also make a fairly strong statement to the press.

Tyrker
Guest

It was the Macedonians themselves who started building a fence. The Visegrad 4 are offering support for that. If the Macedonians didn’t want a fence to be built on their own soil, then no amount of pressure from the Visegrad group would cause them to succumb – these countries are not powerful enough to impose their will on a sovereign nation.

Observer
Guest

Tyrker,
To use Webber’s example – what if the neighbours built a fence all around Hungary, on their own territory and let through only whom they want. No need to seek the Hungarians for anything?
But we had this 25-30 y ago, the times from where Organ came.

Guest

But my understanding is that the Macedonians actually asked for help to build a double fence fortification within Macedonian territory along the Greek border. They are thereby exercising their sovereignty and for that they don’t need permission from any neighbour. Thus webber’s metaphor does not have any legs, and you seem to have missed that.

And comparison with the old pre-regime change situation in the Carpathian basin is not comparable at all, since the lock-outs were mutual on all sides, and Hungary and its neighbours exercised their sovereignty as they saw fit, and as they were permitted to do so by their Soviet Russian overlords.

But anyway, the real point is that no amount of fencing in Macedonia will shut off the floodgates into the Schengen area without also hermetically sealing off the Bulgarian and Albanian sections of the border with Greece, as well as both the Adriatic and Black Sea routes into the EU.

Common Sense
Guest

1) Macedonians did ask for help so Observer & Webber are, at best, guilty of poor reading comprehension.

2) Even if that weren’t the case, it’s not like you need the Greeks’ permission to come into their failed state, right? I mean the Hungarian stonemasons could just sneak in across the border.

Common Sense
Guest

what if we were talking about what you are talking about and not what we are actually talking about? then, in that hypothetical world, you would be right on point sport!

tappanch
Guest

Budget allocation, 2009 vs 2015

Government spending on itself: 8.9% vs 11.5%
Education: 11.5% vs 9.7%

Health care: 8.9% vs 8.3%

Economy: 13.7% vs 18.7%

http://index.hu/gazdasag/ado_es_koltsegvetes/2016/02/16/mire_kolt_az_allam_az_oktatas_helyett/

Observer
Guest

I see very different figures on health expenditure GDP% , 8% here and 4% elsewhere, although everywhere the trend is clearly down since 2007 or 2008.
Someone explain?

Here is another chart re education expenditure, where the total for 2013 is 3.22% GDP!?

webber
Guest

The numbers tappanch has given are % of govt. expenditure.
The percentage of GDP is different.

Observer
Guest
Member

Excuse me Dombo, but why do you think that the 2-3 typically self-declared anti-Hungarian trolls have Jewish ancestry in these forum? Some of them have fantasy accounts, but in the reality they are Romanian or Slovak nationalists with \”western\” fake nick names, who enjoy trolling in Hungary related topics.

Ákos
Guest

Whatever happens, Orban is winning.

Migration (Arabs are out to rape our daughters) and family subsidies (those millions for the middle class families about which average people love to fantasize) will be the main themes of the year ahead and the opposition cannot add to these debates.

Orban will win again. He is much smarter than his opponents. He is just a winner type, not a loser type.

http://inforadio.hu/hir/belfold/a-kormany-szamara-ez-a-leheto-legjobb-ami-tortenik-mraz-agoston-samuel-az-arenaban-798444

webber
Guest

This type of winner type. Good luck with him:
comment image

Ferkó
Guest

The mafia still rules Italy, now more than ever. Previously mafiosi were strong only in the South, but it’s hopeless so they have moved to the North.

Common Sense
Guest

Better him than the various Fredos that publicly speak against the Family on sites like this.

Observer
Guest

@Árok
I agree – Orban is winning, he and his cronies are getting richer and richer.
Everyone else is loosing, i.e. paying for their lavish dinners.
Which group are you in ?

tappanch
Guest

Inforadio < Mr Mraz < Nezopont < Fidesz:

" jelenleg kiadó az a pozíció, amely bizonyos kérdésekben ellenszolgáltatásért hajlandó a kormánnyal együttműködni."

Loosely translated: we have money to give to those MPs from the opposition who are willing to vote to modify the "Basic Law" again in order to introduce arbitrary martial law.

webber
Guest

That’s what Petofi predicted.
I wonder if they can make it a secret ballot?

csipás
Guest

There was never ANY question about Fidesz getting the 2/3s in one way or another.

Anybody who thought otherwise is hopelessly naive.

It’s not as straightforward as it used to be, sure, but believe me Orban will get the votes for the 2/3s.

The game around it is just a show, Orban will have his way.

Most of the opposition is in Fidesz pocket and has been there for long.

Guest

A very interesting (but also rather long …) article on the Polish governing “Law and justice” party and the Kaczyński twins:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/16/conspiracy-theorists-who-have-taken-over-poland
A really worthwhile read!
These guys are as crazy as the Fidesz …

Guest

Yep, same mentality, same cultural proclivities, same political comfort zone, same contempt for liberal democracy, same embrace of lunatic conspiracy theories, and the same mentally ill protestations of “it isn’t my fault, it is never my fault.” Truly, a marriage made in heaven between the Christian Nationalists/National Socialists of Poland and Hungary.

vivahans
Guest

I hope you are on some beach in Tel Aviv when you write these frustrated little rants. Otherwise, what a sorry bitter little life you have.

Common Sense
Guest

Lay off him. It’s not his fault. It’s never his fault. It’s the National Christian socialists, conspiracy theorists and the ghost of Admiral Horthy that are all out to get him.

vivahans
Guest

Wolfi reads the Guardian = says it all. Mind your own business Wolfi. You can’t be awake forever, you know. How is WPB, BTW?

Guest

WTF – before Eva deletes you …

Alex Wiltzek
Guest

Great article – I particularly liked this quote although it’s difficult to say whether it applies better to Poles or the People who have chosen to post their frustrations on this site.

“It is not “nationalism” in the traditional sense but something less coherent, more akin to a mood than an ideology – a narrative of righteousness, victimhood, and self-pity from which anyone can pick their prejudices as they see fit.”

Nick the Greek
Guest

The Visegrad group building fences in non EU country FYRoM in order to isolate Greece from the rest of Europe, is schismatic and serves only to (carve-up) divide Europe.

The mentality and the beginnings of that idea were Slovene in origin. South-Slavic ideas being promoted by West-Slavs and Hungarians, with intention to fragment Europe, ultimately scares Old-Europe and Germany in particular.

In the eyes of Western peoples – Old-Europeans and Germanic Nations in particular, view the (V4) Visegrad group with derision scepticism and suspicion.

wpDiscuz