The afterlife of György Donáth’s bust

I would like to return to the topic of the György Donáth case I wrote about a couple of days ago in a post titled “Another attempt to erect a statue honoring an anti-Semitic racist.” There are at least three reasons for doing so. First, because since the scuffle and the aborted unveiling of the bust there have been new developments that is worth discussing. Second, right-wing publications have been filled with articles full of indignation that a small minority “dictates” the rest of the nation whom it should honor. Third, Ádám Gellért, a legal scholar and a student of history, has taken the trouble and has done some research on Donáth’s political past.

First, the bust of Donáth has been removed. Apparently, Péter Boross, former prime minster (1993-1994) and the man who is an active promoter of the rehabilitation of the “progressive elements” of the Horthy regime, decided that the bust was in danger. Two days ago I expressed my suspicion that, just as in case of Bálint Hóman’s statue, it was likely that the government contributed money for the memorial. My feeling about the source of money was correct, a fund, established by the Orbán government, contributed 15 million forints toward the cost of the bust. Boross thinks that the Donáth bust on the building where Donáth once lived at the corner of Páva utca and Üllői út is not a safe place because it would be defaced. They will erect is somewhere else considered safer.

Donath2

Only the pedestal is left

Compare that reaction to the government’s response to the erection of the memorial for the victims of the German occupation of March 19, 1944 when Viktor Orbán, ignoring the domestic and international protest, insisted its erection even if it had to be done in secret in the middle of the night. Perhaps because of the lessons learned from the Hóman controversy, the government decided on an early retreat. The other possibility is that in the Donáth case Viktor Orbán was not personally involved and therefore Boross and others could make independent decisions. In any case, it was the right step in the right direction although it would have been much smarter to forget about György Donáth’s bust altogether.

Second, quite a few opinion pieces appeared in the far-right press that expressed the authors’ outrage at the Hungarian left’s and the Jewish community’s condemnation of a man who was “the first victim of the Stalinist-type show trials” and who at his trial testified that his name in no way can be connected to anti-Semitism. Moreover, again quoting from Donáth’s last plea, he disapproved of both national socialism and fascism. According to the author, Sándor Faggyas, a right-wing journalist currently working at Magyar Hírlap, “Donáth’s cardinal sin,” according to the ignorant and hysterical left, “was that he had been a Christian politician who defended the Hungarian people and who participated in the secret organization called Magyar Közösség.” We will see later that Faggyas was mistaken on both accounts.

Naturally, Zsolt Bayer, the professional anti-Semite and old friend of Orbán with a long Fidesz past from the very beginnings of the party, couldn’t have remained quiet when a good Christian is being maligned by “the descendants of the rubble of 1919 and 1945, who if they could would kill again with pleasure just as their predecessors did,” furtively pointing the finger at Hungarian Jewry. It is intolerable that Hungarians are forced to view history through the “annals of Jewish sufferings.” Bayer promised us a second installment of his opinion piece titled “Intolerable.” I assume he will continue to quote from Donáth’s last plea that indeed showed great bravery.

I indicated in my first piece on Donáth that we know very little about the man aside from his involvement in Magyar Közösség. Several books or chapters of books were devoted to that secret organization but no one has searched through documents looking for Donáth’s political views prior to 1945. Because of the favorable impression his plea made on those who studied the story of the Közösség drew a favorable portrait of him. However, even on the basis of these available secondary sources I had an uneasy feeling that Donáth’s life most likely has a very dark side. I suggested that someone close to the available sources should do some serious research and write at least a longish scholarly article on the man’s past. Well, the first step was taken by Ádám Gellért yesterday when he published an article full of quotations from Donáth’s speeches delivered in parliament. Clearly, this is just a first stab at learning more about Donáth because in addition being a member of parliament, he was also the publisher of an extreme right-wing magazine, Egyedül Vagyunk (We are alone) and therefore he must have written scores of opinion pieces for the magazine. Egyedül Vagyunk was a notorious anti-Semitic publication whose editorial board included such war criminals as Béla Imrédy, Andor Jaross, and Ferenc Rajniss, who all were condemned to death in 1946. Andor Jaross was in charge of the deportation of Hungary’s Jewish citizens to Auschwitz where most of them were murdered. These were the people Donáth kept company with. After the fall of the Szálasi regime Donáth was arrested but after a few months was let go.

On the basis of the quotes Gellért unearthed we can safely say that despite Donáth’s protestation he was both an anti-Semite and a follower of the Hungarian version of national socialism or fascism, Ferenc Szálasi’s Arrow Cross Party. He imagined the establishment of a “Hungarian Empire” (birodalom) which would “in its size” equal Hungary before 1918 but in contents it would be very different. It would be built on truly Hungarian traditions. He considered “national socialism or fascism” vastly superior to democracy because the former ones are better suited for the creation of “a healthy hierarchy.” What did he mean by “healthy hierarchy”? It seems that what he actually had in mind was the exclusion of all Jews which the first anti-Jewish law in his opinion didn’t ensure. Stricter laws were necessary which were already under preparation and which “will perhaps achieve better results.” He was thinking about the second anti-Jewish law

When Béla Varga of the Smallholders Party spoke against an amendment to the marriage law that forbade marriage between Jews and Gentiles Donáth became truly animated. Varga thought that “50% of Hungarian blood, plus the sacrament of baptism surely can balance the 50% Jewish blood” Donáth exclaimed: “The Negro will not become white either.” Or when liberal Károly Rassay argued against the second anti-Jewish law, pointing out that it is against the interests of the nation and that “it is impossible to speak of a pure Magyar race” Donáth interjected: “Unfortunately! Not pure. We must purify it! We will purify it!” Or, Donáth didn’t consider the ban on mixed marriages quite satisfactory because it didn’t specifically cover children born out of wedlock. This omission, he argued, “on the one hand, gives encouragement to sexual intercourse outside of marriage and, on the other doesn’t punish its evasion.”

During the debate on the third anti-Jewish law he made a fairly long speech out of which I will quote some of the most important sentences. Donáth was describing the difficulties the Imrédy government had to face when hundreds of laws had to be enacted during a very short time, “making up for the omissions of 20-50 or even 100 years.” All that has to be done in the middle of the war and during the building a new Hungarian empire. “We must bring up a new generation of the intelligentsia … now that a large segment of the present intellectual elite is being excluded as in our opinion, these people should have no place among Hungarian intellectuals.” Let’s face it, György Donáth was a maniacal anti-Semite. Not what Zsolt Bayer tried to make him at the end of his article. “Was György Donáth an anti-Semite? Yes, he was. Just as other innumerable great and talented men without whom no Hungarian culture and history would exist: Sándor Petőfi, Ferenc Herczeg, Dezső Kosztolányi, Sándor Márai, László Németh, Gyula Illyés, and Zsigmond Móricz.” How Petőfi could be listed here is beyond me because Petőfi in fact raised his voice against German citizens of Pest who refused to accept Jews into the national guard.

According to Bayer, the accusation of anti-Semitism is often unfounded. Surely, in case of György Donáth it wasn’t. But as far as Bayer is concerned “the Jews who were unfortunately overrepresented in the revolt of the rats and the mass murderers in 1919—against the will and the wishes of the majority of Jews–themselves ‘succeeded’ to gain the deep antipathy and anger of the majority.” In this all these outstanding Hungarians’ anti-Semitism is perfectly understandable.

February 27, 2016
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Guest

Yecch.

Lucky we have you, Éva, to shine a laser light on these disgusting people.

Guest
I think that Hungarian Jews are sadly deluded if they think they will ever again be regarded as Hungarians by Hungarian nationalists – in other words by the vast majority of Hungary’s population – like they used to be (more or less) during the golden half century of the Dual Monarchy when they were needed for the modernization of the country and above all, to make up the Magyar numbers against the non-Magyar nationalities in the Kingdom of Hungary. On the other hand left-liberal and socialist internationalists, the so-called “anti-fascists” and the left in general – whether non-Jews or Jews – vehemently object to the particularism of Jews, which is profoundly resistant to the univeralism of the left. Anyway, there are plenty of antisemites on the left too, including countless self-hating Jews among them. The bottom line is that it is a no-win situation for Jews in Hungary, just as for Jews elsewhere too, in the East Block countries. Except that while in most other East Block countries the Jews got either completely wiped out (Poland, Belarus), sold to Israel (Romania) or emigrated en masse (Russia), Hungary still has a sizable indigenous Jewish population desperately and touchingly loyal and devoted… Read more »
petofi
Guest

@ambalint

“…beats me why…”

It’s not love of country: it’s love of Budapest, which, after all, owes its lustre to the great jewish architects around the turn of the century.

That’s largely why I came back. But, I tell ya, Hungarian anti-semtitism is a horrendous corrosive; and I’m soon leaving this sinkhole behind.

petofi
Guest

But, lest I sound like a one-note-samba, there’s much more wrong here than just the anti-semitism–this is a seriously sick
society. Bad leadership (for sure) but that often obscures the fact that the norms of society are seriously wanting.

Guest

That is very true indeed. Antisemitism just happens to be the base guitar in a very large band. :-)))

Guest

@petofi
February 27, 2016 11:52 pm

And BTW, not just Jewish architects, but Jewish building contractors and subcontractors, Jewish interior decorators, and above all, Jewish financiers and bankers who funded and organized it all, just like they did and do to this day in New York, Toronto, Los Angeles or Sydney.

Guest

@petofi
February 27, 2016 11:52 pm

Just one more small point.

While the love of Budapest by Jews living there is perfectly understandable, there are of course plenty of Jews in Hungary who live in country towns too.

The bottom line is that Hungarian Jewish attachment is primarily to the non-antisemitic dimensions of Hungarian culture, Hungarian literature and above all, to the Hungarian language.

This is especially so in the case of Jewish intellectuals, journalists, authors and poets, because for them the Hungarian language is of course their most vital tool of self-expression.

And even today, percentage-wise there are still as many intellectuals, journalists, authors and poets among Hungarian Jews, as there have always been.

Guest

I too have always wondered about that ‘no-win’ situation for the Jewish population and why they stay but yes it is that self- expression and its links to identity which holds them there. I sure can understand it in not an exact way but relatively in the fact that I will leave a place I called ‘home’ for many years. Needless to say it’s a difficult experience to leave one’s place of birth as probably some surely can attest to here.

Guest
@wrfree Today 9:22 am Yes, particularly for people past their teens. For me however, it was an absolute and total relief to leave Hungary, but I was of course only fourteen then and an unaccompanied minor, so it was all just a great adventure to get on the train, then cross the old Iron Curtain over two nights about a total of 30km on foot, finally arrive on the Austrian side, see oranges and bananas in shops for the first time in my life, then on to Italy to a great hotel in the Italian Alps which was converted to a holding centre for Hungarian refugees, where I was to stay about six months before I could be flown out to Australia. The only fly on the ointment were many of the Hungarians at the holding centre who were vicious and loud Jew-haters and Jew-baiters. There were quite a few Jewish families among us, who chose to be relocated to a special holding centre near Venice because of the carryings on of these violent Hungarian antisemites, but I stayed because an elderly Hungarian gentleman became my friend and protector. But it goes without saying that when I was finally able… Read more »
Guest
Re: ‘ total relief to leave Hungary’ And from what I can pick up no doubt hearing ‘And make sure to close the door on your way out’. Such was the hospitality eh? ( and currently there’s supposed to be possible work on a ‘tourist agency?????’) It will be interesting to see if the country can be good to the ‘guests of the nation’. Personally in my Anglo-Magyar-Catholic background world I was never aware of blatant hatred directed to those Jewish people we knew. I can recall all whom we knew were very kind to my mother as she tried to grapple with the fact of being an immigrant in a strange land. The fact of having different religions didn’t matter. They helped her immensely by offering employment for her as she adjusted to life here. And in honor of that relationship I was told I was named after one of their sons. And as I got older I believe those relationships were important in expanding my cultural and educational horizons of the world and its people. They are all gone now yet in a way they continue to live in my life. I owe them much for what I… Read more »
petofi
Guest

re: “…percentage-wise..”

Yeah, well, even if there are only 100 jewish intellectuals,
authors etc. in-country left, the percentage would remain the same since there are so much (sic) fewer goyish intellectuals to be found than heretofore.

holvart
Guest

@ Petofi: why do you think that is?

spectator
Guest

You know, when I was busy growing up in Hungary, my mother used to tell me, that only two kind of people exist: good or bad.

Quite a long time I wasn’t aware — since it didn’t have any significance — just who in my surrounding was of a Jewish, or Romani origin, let alone their ideological inkling. Some went to the church regularly, (catholic, in case you wonder) some only on Christmas eve, many of them never. Some of my classmates had parents clad more colourfully, some had parents who were hardly sober…
When I was around 18 heard first the word “bibsi” and I haven’t the slightest clue what it means. (It was actually a friend of mine who used the term regarding a girl, and at first I thought he means that she is rather silly, what she was otherwise…)
However, we were mainly “only” Hungarians at the time, without any other discriminating adjectives.
Yeah, these were the dreadful Kadarian times.

And just what the hell we are talking about now, people?

Today, in 2016?

Aren’t we supposed to be surpassed — at least culturally — those times of oppression?

Then why didn’t we?

Guest
There are no reliable statistics of the number of indigenous Jews in Hungary. Most estimates put their numbers between 80 to 100 thousand. That contrasts with almost one million on the eve of WW1. The indigenous Jews of Hungary today are all descendants of the Jews of Budapest who escaped deportation to German death camps thanks to Allied intervention, or of Jews who somehow survived the German death camps and the slave labour units of the Hungarian Army. About 10% are estimated to be observant, mostly belonging to the Hungarian Neolog stream of Judaism, the major group represented by the Federation of Jewish Congregations in Hungary. (MAZSIHISZ). The balance of religious Jews in Hungary are either Orthodox or followers of the Lubavitcher Hassid (Chabad/EMIH) movement, or, in tiny numbers, followers of the American Reform stream of Judaism. There is also a tiny group of Hungarian converts to Judaism, mostly for reasons of marriage into an observant Jewish family. The 90% others are non-religious , i.e. completely secular Magyars for all intents and purposes, although there is a tiny minority of so-called cultural Jews among them who are intent on somehow or other reviving the exhilarating Jewish cultural life of the… Read more »
Karl Pfeifer
Guest

Bayer & Co want make to believe that antisemitism has to do with communist rule in Hungary 1919 and after 1945. But the catholic Bishop Ottokár Prohaska transported antisemitism before 1919.

Guest
@Karl Pfeifer Today 1:32 am It goes back a long before Prohászka was even born. Hungarian Jews were emancipated by the liberal aristocratic leadership of Deák’s time in the teeth of vicious opposition by the Hungarian Catholic Church, a large majority of lesser nobles (kis nemesek and közép nemesek), many of whom belonged to the Hungarian Reformed (Calvinist) Church, and by the ethnic German burghers of Hungarian towns, who mostly belonged to the Evangelical (Lutheran) Church of Hungary. In 1883, the judicial dismissal of the contrived Tiszaeszlár blood libel then led directly to the establishment of the Nationwide Party of Antisemitism (Országos Antiszemita Párt) by Győző Istóczy, which succeeded in gaining 17 seats in the parliament. Virulent antisemitic sentiments continued to boil over in Hungary right through the latter period of the Dual Monarchy, especially after the national outrage caused by the recognition of Judaism as a received religion by the Kingdom of Hungary, as well as allowing intermarriage between Jew and non-Jew by the Hungarian state. Unfortunately, meantime Hungarian Jews had become far too comfortable in Hungary and were completely unwilling to recognize the writing on the wall, so they waited around until it became far too late to… Read more »
Guest

The Hungarian Neolog stream of Judaism (Hungarian Israelites or Hungarians of the Mosaic Faith), and the Orthodox who vehemently opposed them, both became recognised as legitimate branches of Judaism that became a received religion of the Hungarian state in 1895.

This was in direct follow-up to the political emancipation of Hungarian Jewry in 1867, which occurred as part of the Compromise (Kiegyezés) between Hungary and Austria, which in turn had also brought into being the Dual Monarchy. The loss of the Austro-Prussian War in 1866 demonstrated the hopeless weakness of the House of Habsburgs, and opened the way for the Hungarians to become the equal partners in the Empire all the way to its collapse at the end of WW1.

Guest
I think that what disturbs Hungarian nationalists and traditionalists most of all about Jews is that Jews cannot be pinned down or categorized in terms of neatly labelled pigeon holes. First, Jews tend to be no respecters of hierarchies beloved of the likes of György Donáth, thus tend to bring to bear corrosive skepticism and sarcasm to all social pretension and status, á la Jonathan Swift. Then there are Jews who delight in showing off social status and in competing with the Joneses on a never ending mouse wheel. There are countless Jews who hate the middle class, despise accumulation of property, bleed for the unfortunates of this world, and are out to create social justice and save the world through the weirdest Messianic (and antisemitic) ideologies and religions, such as Marxism, Bolshevism, Trotskyism, Maoism, Hippydom, Christianity, Scientology or the Moonies. Then there are Jews who just love to accumulate property and play the game of economic success. There are religious Jews who are for Israel and religious Jews who are against Israel. There are Jews who hate all religion and Jews who love religion, especially their own brand of. Jewish religion. There are secular Jews for Israel and secular… Read more »
Guest

Correction: “. . . just happen to be MEMBERS OF the same family.” in para 7.

petofi
Guest

Reform of Hungarian Society:

Step 1:
Every 14-yr. old student–male and female–should be made to memorize Aritotle’s, Nicomachean Ethics.

Guest

And can I ask if at least one copy of the Declaration of Independence is still extant in the country? Or is it undergoing some sort of samizdat??? I worry about those things.

Guest

Now if Bayer had written
the Jews who were unfortunately overrepresented in the number of Hungarian Nobel prize winners …
These people like bayer and his predecessors are really crazy in a way – they just need an “Enemy”, whether it’s Jews, Homosexuals, Protestants, Atheists, Muslims, Foreigners in general – any well defined group will do …
They must be really afraid of something …

webber
Guest

Bayer doesn’t really dislike Muslims, foreigners in general, homosexuals or atheists.
His obsession is Jews.

ervin
Guest

I always wondered why the pathological obsession with jews. My suspicion is that Bayer is jewish himself like Istvan Lovas another deranged antisemite

Guest

@ervin
Today 6:53 am

Going by his surname of Bayer, which means Bavarian in English, I would say that he was been born to ethnic German parents (Dunavölgyi svábok), or at least to an ethnic German father.

Not too many philosemites in that crowd, that’s for sure. Bayer is just expressing openly and loudly what he would have been exposed to day after day in his family circle literally from the day he was born.

Guest

Correction: “. . . that he was born to . . .” in para 1.

Guest

Of course with the name of Bayer, he could just as well have come from a Zipser German (cipszer, or szepességi szász) background, or from a Transylvanian Saxon (erdélyi szász) one, as from a Danube valley Schwabian one.

webber
Guest

Bayer has said of himself that his ancestry is German and Slovak. Can’t recall precisely – I seem to remember it’s Donauschwab (Swabians who settled along the Danube). His Dad’s name was Ottmar, which is about as German as it gets.

Nicholas Molnar
Guest

Incorrect. “BAYER” does not mean “BAVARIAN.” The name “BAYERN” does.

Guest

What? Where do you get that nonsense?

Bayern = Land of the Bavarians = Bavaria

Bayer = Inhabitant of Bavaria aka Bavarian
If you need a lesson in German , ask me – I’m a Schwab …
PS:
Ein Bayer, zwei Bayern …
Der Bayer, dem Bayern etc …

Guest

@webber
Today 5:44 am

Yes, exactly.

And when Bayer berates and castigates THE Jews “in general,” he is actuallywhipping a phantom spectre, an apparition that exists only in his mind and has no external reality whatsoever.

It is clearly a pathology, as is his obsession with dark international conspiracies and machinations against sainted and ever suffering Hungary.

Clearly, Bayer has a wheel (or two) too few or too many in his head, but his consistent strumming on the Jew-hatred chord of Hungarian nationalism suit Orbán right down to the ground, and doing Orbán’s own dirty work in the Hungarian media make Bayer a star as far as Orbán is concerned.

Guest

Re: ‘wheel or two in his head’

Maybe. Not sure what he uses for headaches but there’s the great big seller ‘Bayer’ aspirin that he may getting for free just by dint of his name. Thing is it thins the blood. I have the feeling not too much of it is going north to the head. Really the axons and synapses up there aren’t fire’in…;-)…

Guest
“He considered “national socialism or fascism” vastly superior to democracy because the former ones are better suited for the creation of “a healthy hierarchy.” Amazing coincidence! Or is it? This is Orban’s illiberal state. With the subtle code of antisemitism included – zsido-proofing. No wonder the government contributes to these vile ‘initiatives’ – and for me explains how Hungarian Roma – Hungarians – can be excluded, still, from society and how the persistent undercurrents of anti-Semitism prevail. During New-Year’s eve celebrations we were invited for a shot of Palinka by a lorry-driver neighbour who worked for a German haulage firm – and who left for days at a time on haulage assignments – much to the relief of his wife apparently. During the conversation I brought up the success of the Hungarian haulage firm of Waberer Kft. Amazingly this led to an immediate outburst that the owner was a dirty filthy Jew from the lorry driver! (I heard and recognised ‘zsido’ pronounced with venom and only the other epithets from my partner afterwards.) That this outburst was made at all was unacceptable – but it had nothing to do with the success of the firm – and to be made… Read more »
Guest

@charliecharlieh
Today 7:36 am

Yep, that is the way the cookie crumbles over there.

Some are more open about it, others are less open about it, but it is gut level and grassroots.

I am glad you are not fooled by the honeyed and mealy-mouthed appearances among Hungarians.

The reality is very ugly, and almost inconceivably so for one used to Anglo-Saxon ways.

Guest

@charliecharlieh
Today 7:36 am

And yes, Donáth and Orbán. The apple does not fall far from the tree.

Istvan
Guest
This comment reflecting the depth of existing anti-Semitism still existing in Hungary is actually reassuring to me, as have been some of the observations of Petofi posted over the last couple of years. It makes me feel that my extended family in Hungary with its racist attitudes is not abnormal, but more or less mainstream. Charlie it’s a terrible feeling to be with people who appear otherwise normal and humane who assume you too are a racist and feel free to rant. The dilema remains of creating a confrontation and burning all bridges. My wife being one quarter Native American avoids going with me to Hungary for just this reason, my youngest daughter Alexandra who is a US Army Reserve Captain and PhD student is totally confrontational or was at least so two years ago during our last visit. She thinks very little of many young Hungarian men in their 20s, who she characterizes generally as “wannabes.” I said to her what do they want to be – she said rich, or very cosmopolitan, intellectuals, would be soccer stars, would be international caliber swimmers, would be thug gangsters, would be bohemians ( free sports ) or pretend warriors, generally full… Read more »
Guest

Istvan – you’ve exactly described the situation – how you are assumed to share their abhorant views by ‘association’ almost – and how sordid and dirty you feel without having the opportunity to put their hats on straight.

Your wife’s dilemma.

In Hungary it’s almost Sisyphean.

Guest

There’s an interesting interview with György Wáberer on the German trucker site:

http://www.trucker.de/gyoergy-waberer-wir-nehmen-keinem-deutschen-geschaeft-weg-1369371.html

He tells the story how he and friends took over the state owned company in 1994.

It was also interesting to read that he’s an IT guy – and IT is the base for his company’s success (and of course the fact that most or all of his drivers are from Romania and happy to make some money …).

Andrew J Chandler
Guest

I still think that the casual anti-Semitism which was endemic in Hungarian and European Society in the inter-war period can be linked, but not equated, with the genocide of 1944 and anti-Semitism today. Harold Nicholson, a British diplomat at Versailles in 1919, who was sent to negotiate with the revolutionary government in Budapest, referred to Béla Kun in his diary as ‘the Jew Bolshevik’ and described his Foreign Minister as an ‘oily little Jew’. This was from a man who had grown up on the Andrássy boulevard before the war, as a diplomat’s son and would likely have gone to school with the wealthy, well-integrated Jewish children of Budapest. And yet, his diaries are regarded as a prime sources for studies of international relations between the wars. Again, I would also direct you to Nóra Szekér’s work on the Szent-Iványi records for the period 1938-46.

Guest
@Andrew J Chandler Today 8:39 am Beg to disagree about the “casual.” Béla Kun and his mob of several hundred lunatics were most certainly red terrorists and a bunch of absolute arseholes, but the hundreds of thousands of Hungarian Jews suffered as much from the depredations of those deranged reds as Hungarian gentiles. Not to mention the pogroms and retributions that came with the white takeover for something that 99% of Hungarian Jews had nothing to do with and absolutely no power to influence in the direction of sanity. What you charmingly call “casual” was in fact totally vicious and vile, and permeated everything everywhere in prewar Hungary. It most certainly paved the way to the Hungarian Holocaust, as it is just about inconceivable that ordinary Hungarians would have allowed themselves to behave as they did from 1939 to 1945 without the continuous antisemitic brainwashing, urging and robust encouragement that they received during the previous twenty years. And what has it got to do with the price of rice that Nicholson might have gone to school with “wealthy, well-integrated Jewish children of Budapest?” He might have or he might not have, woulda, coulda, etc. And even if he did, what… Read more »
webber
Guest

OT Orban’s beaten dog – does ANYTHING make sense in the story? Someone climbed into Orban’s garden a few years ago, beat a puppy so badly it lost an eye and broke its leg, and nobody heard anything? Nobody noticed anything? Not a single guard was watching the garden? Nobody heard anything?
Can someone straighten this out for me, because I just heard the story from two people who were laughing about it (vajon ki verte meg a kutyát, vajon ki???), and I see it’s been in a few papers with Orbán hugging the dog, but it makes no sense at all to me.
I kind of suspect the story has been mangled by the press, it’s so crazy.
I also see the police say nobody reported anything, and TEK also says it knows nothing.
WHAT is this story? What are the details?

Dr. Pál Ajtony
Guest

Orban is winning, his state of the nation address was a rollicking success. Again. He nailed it, yet again.

Hungary leaps from triumph to triumph. Nobody can doubt that and even Hungary’s most ardent enemies acknowledge that. Sure, there are things left to be done (needless to say the liberals are sabotaging the process), but the direction is clear. Hungary will march on no matter what the Brusselites are saying.

The vile Brusselites are undermining the future of the nation and would let the Mohamedanians to Hungary in order to turn us into Christian slaves. Imagine. But we will resist. Takes what it takes we will get rid of Brussels soon. Enough is enough.

We, the Fidesz are winning. The winning streak continues.

Note that only about a 1.000 people went to a demonstration of Együtt. I’m not surprised. When the prime minister orders a demonstration a 100.000 people is the minimum. Now that’s a difference, isn’t it.

Fidesz is here to stay because it’s the party of winners. Try as they might the leftist-liberals are doomed to failure. The communists aren’t coming back, that’s for sure.

webber
Guest

I doubt you actually heard Orban’s speech.
He sounded tired. His audience looked bored through most of it. He admitted hospitals in Budapest aren’t the best.
And he admitted economic growth isn’t as dynamic as it should be. Who’s to blame for that?
He sounded like a loser to me.

webber
Guest

“Mohamedanians?” Dr. Ajtony, please get someone to check your English when you write your little propaganda screes. Your spelling and grammar are awful.

Guest

Webber, I’m (almost …) sure this wonderful first comment by the Dr. is satire …

webber
Guest

Possibly! I hope you’re right, because it truly is ridiculous (the speech was a SUCH a dud).

Spectator
Guest

Is there a doctor in da house…???

webber
Guest

Fidesz lost massively in the by-election for Mayor of Salgótarján. They are still counting votes, but the socialists’ candidate has such a lead already that there is no way that Fidesz’s candidate can win. The socialists even won in areas they lost in the last elections.
Again we see that Fidesz is unpopular (gee, I wonder why?… threatening people who vote against them doesn’t work, it seems….).
So, Fidesz is a party of losers.
http://index.hu/belfold/2016/02/28/nagy_a_verseny_salgotarjanban/

Buli
Guest

This is one of the most leftist districts in Hungary. Fidesz doesn’t care about these 5-10 districts (budapest XIII. etc.), because these were engineered to concentrate and contain leftist voters.

webber
Guest

Yeah, right, they don’t care… That’s why they spent so much money and time on the election there, because they don’t care….
Tell us another one.

Rtoff
Guest

Fidesz increased its votes substantially.

Don’t discount that ability after such 6 years.

webber
Guest

All parties increased their votes, including Fidesz, because it mobilized the voters like never before because the election mattered to Fidesz
And what were the results? The percentage of people who voted for Fidesz fell very substantially – because the numbers of those voting for the opposition grew much more dramatically.
Don’t discount that result after 6 years of Fidesz brainwashing.

The majority of voters in Salgótarján voted for the opposition. Indeed, the majority of voters voted for the left. Even if Fidesz had gotten all of Jobbik’s votes, Fidesz would have lost.

It’s official – Fidesz was a loser yesterday. It became a party of losers.

webber
Guest

Opposition – up by 2,664 votes.
Fidesz – up by 712 votes.
Quite a difference.
2,550 more people voted in this election than voted in 2014. The opposition increased its number of votes by more than the increase in votes overall.
Fidesz apparently took votes from Jobbik.
In percentages, the socialist (united opposition) candidate took nearly 52% of the vote.
Fidesz took 40% of the vote. That’s it. After all these years of propaganda, Fidesz took a drubbing.

spectator
Guest

Anybody bothered to listen to Orbáns yearly evaluation?

What a stylistic nightmare! Besides being utter rubbish, as usual.

I keep wondering at least in the last six years that just who is that miserable sod who manages to put together this nonsense, time after time?

If anybody will attempt to translate this gem, be my guest:

…Mi közép-európaiak úgy haladunk, hogy időnként a sínre tesszük a fülünket, hallunk-e valami gyanús morajt, “a balsors szerelvényének hangfoszlányait”

Oh my friggin’ God..!

petofi
Guest

Reform of Hungary: Step 2

Mandatory High School Project

Every student should be forced to confront their grandparents to tell them what of jewish property and goods they received in 1945 after the jews were sent to Auschwitz.

petofi
Guest

Reform of Hungary: Step 3

Every high school student should be required to read the eyewitness accounts of what transpired in the concentration camps.

Kormos
Guest

I agree. However you may ask the Apro Clan and Gyurcsany himself about living in a confiscated property, and consider the following quote “At the same time, however, a large segment of survivors lost their previous livelihood when the Communists rose to power. Personal property was nationalized, but living as independent intellectuals became impossible as well.”

webber
Guest

Correction: living as independent intellectuals became impossible in 1941.
It was extremely difficult after 1938. And it was not at all easy after 1920.
Let’s not pretend that things were great in Hungary before the communist period.

Kormos
Guest

@Prof. webber. You comment does not negate the fact, that previously jewish owned properties were confiscated by the state after WWII. Some of the properties were distributed by the state to supporters of the new establishment (Apro Clan, Dr. Balint Istvan AVH surgeon etc.)By the way, life for certain social classes was never easy in Hungary. “Living as an independent individual” is always challenging.

webber
Guest

Why “prof.”?
In what way did what I said negate anything at all?
You neglected the fact that Jewish-owned properties were confiscated BEFORE WWII ended, and quite a lot of Jews were murdered as well.
Read this: http://www.hunghist.org/index.php/issue-current/83-articles/325-2015-3-blomqvist
After the war, a lot of properties were not returned because the owners weren’t alive.
And yes, properties were handed over to communist big-wigs Disgusting – I agree.
For even more sickening things, you’ll can look before 1945.

webber
Guest

P.S. Kormos, If you want to know why property expropriated by the communists wasn’t taken back – ask Fidesz….
It’s good that you remember Gyurcsány’s wife’s grandfather. Now ask about Orbán’s father.
And while you are asking, could you ask about lustration, and why Fidesz still hasn’t done it?

Kormos
Guest

You are a “prof” in my book, since you know things better than others. (i.e american bombs killing innocent civilians in Bp; English grammar etc).Now I ask you about Orban’s father. What kind of previous jewish property was given to him, or unlawfully purchased by him from the Rakosi/Kadar Governments, let’s say till 1966? I have to agree with you that (as an example) prior to 1940, the ONCSA program was financed with some of the confiscated jewish properties. I wish that lustration would have been completed, but apart some political mudslinging I do not see or expect any benefit. However, please do not get too upset. I too have a list of things I do not like in present Hungary, thus I never stated that things are perfect.

webber
Guest

Well, ask about Orban’s father! He wasn’t that high up in the party, but he was in it, and he did very well for himself during the communist period and after.

Why doesn’t Fidesz take property back? There is nothing stopping them. Wonder why they don’t? Just look at them more closely, please.

Lustration would certainly achieve something. Orban and most of his colleagues are old enough to have been involved. They promised us lustration. The last to promise it was Lazar. Where is it?

If you are anti-communist (good for you – communists were foul), then you must logically be for uncovering all the crimes of communism.
Where is lustration?

Guest

Ah, Kormos, the defender of Fidesz – it’s always Gyurcsany’s fault!
You are an a**hole!

Kormos
Guest

I replied earlier, but the internet leprechaun ate my response. I think it did it for general good. Anyway…thanks for the asterisks.

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