Viktor Orbán’s speech: war against the world

Ever since yesterday morning I have been receiving one e-mail after the other from people who wanted to be sure that I don’t forget about the speech Viktor Orbán delivered amid constant whistling by a small group of demonstrators. The occasion was Hungary’s national holiday marking the constitutional revolution of March 1848 that, at least temporarily, ended centuries of absolutism.

Of course, I had every intention of writing about the speech, especially since it is one of the most frightening and threatening speeches Orbán has ever made. At least this seems to be the consensus among Hungarians on the spot. Ordinary citizens who commented on the speech on György Bolgár’s Klubrádió talk show were outraged not so much by what he had to say about Brussels, because they are accustomed to that, but the way he spoke about them.

If I were to summarize the speech in a single sentence, I would say that it was a declaration of war against the progressive tradition in Hungarian history and all Hungarians who don’t support him as well as a massive attack on those European politicians who, in his opinion, are aiding and abetting the migrant hordes.

Let me start with history because, soon after 1848, Orbán landed in 1919. After I wrote a post on Zsolt Bayer’s anti-Semitic rants a couple of days ago, a few commenters suggested that there is nothing new to say about Zsolt Bayer. In fact, it would be best to ignore him. I disagree because I have the sneaking suspicion that it is Zsolt Bayer who says things that Viktor Orbán himself doesn’t want to say. That perhaps there is a deep understanding between these two men.

I assume we all remember what Bayer wrote about the Hungarian Soviet Republic of 1919 and its alleged, perfectly understandable consequence: the massive anti-Semitism during the interwar period. I never thought I would encounter the topic of 1918-1919 again so soon, least of all in Viktor Orbán’s speech on the anniversary of the 1848 revolution. But there it was, front and center.

In Orbán’s view, Hungarians are deliberate and moderate people who don’t immediately grab the sword or the gun. In the last 170 years, there were only two occasions when Hungarians chose that road, in 1848 and 1956. More ominously, he continued: “Our historians also note a revolution in 1918-1919, but that is not preserved on the pages of our glorious past. Nay, it is preserved not on a different page but in a different volume. We find the description of the 1918-1919 revolutions in encyclopedias filled with hatred of Hungarians written for foreign interests and goals, which describe Bolshevik upheavals under the entry ‘frightening examples of intellectual and political degeneration.’” Hungarians have two revolutionary heritages. One, from 1848 and 1956, leads straight to his government’s new constitution and the present regime. “The other heritage’s bloodline begins with the Jacobin predecessors through 1919 and World War II straight into communism and the Soviet world in Hungary.”

Orban march 152

I don’t think that readers of Hungarian Spectrum need a lot of assistance in deciphering the meaning of these sentences, but perhaps it would be helpful if I pointed out that Orbán here rejects not only the Hungarian Soviet Republic but also the revolution of 1918, which marked Hungary’s independence as well as its transformation from a kingdom to a republic. It is another matter that due to the excessive demands for troop withdrawals by the Allies and a possible misunderstanding with the French representative residing in Budapest, Mihály Károlyi, the president of the republic, felt that he had to resign in March 1919. Without his knowledge the Social Democrats made a deal with Béla Kun’s small communist party. It was a desperate move in the naïve hope that a world revolution might make borders superfluous.

Orbán pressed the theme of Hungary’s brief, inglorious past: “The heritage of 1919 is still with us, but luckily it is only smoldering.  … [W]ithout a host the days [of the representatives of this heritage] are numbered. When no new big intellectual and political infusion package arrives from abroad, then the leaves, the branches, the roots themselves shrivel up in the Hungarian soil, which is unfit for internationalism.” Well, that was the last straw for those Hungarians who are critical of Viktor Orbán and his government. The careful listener or reader couldn’t fail to notice that Orbán called them not only communists directed from abroad but also parasites. And they didn’t like it one bit. A former politician and journalist, once a great fan of Orbán, publicly announced yesterday that as long as Viktor Orbán is prime minister he will not wear the tricolor rosette, as is customary on March 15.

The “host and parasite” metaphor has been widely discussed in the Hungarian media and online. A friend of mine who knew that I was working on Orbán’s text called my attention to a Facebook post whose author, Péter Sziklai, a professor of computer science at ELTE, wrote the following: “I wonder whether perhaps Orbán’s speech writer subconsciously recalled the following text. Even the soil and the host are there. ‘He is and remains the typical parasite, a sponger who, like a harmful bacillus, spreads out more and more if only a favorable medium invites him to do so. But the effect of his existence resembles also that of parasites; where he appears the host people die out sooner or later.’ (Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Munich, 1942).”

The attack on Europe came last. One political commentator didn’t think there was anything that hadn’t been said before, but most people I talked to considered it perhaps the most vicious assault yet on the European Union. These people felt that the passages deserve more exposure than the foreign press can give them in short newspaper articles.

The question in 1848, in the poet Sándor Petőfi’s view, was whether Hungarians should remain prisoners or be freed of their shackles. In Viktor Orbán’s opinion, it is a question that Hungarians still must ask. “Today Europe is like a faded, pallid, withering flower that is being gnawed by a secret vermin. After 168 years, after the great revolutions of the European people, our common home, Europe, is not free.” Therefore none of the nations that constitute the European Union can be free. And why not? “Because it is forbidden in Europe to tell the truth. Even if a muzzle is made out of silk, it is still a muzzle.” And he follows up with a long list of items Europeans are forbidden to talk about. It is forbidden to say that immigration will bring crime and terror, that people coming from different civilizations are dangerous to our way of life, and so on. In this long lament there are a few items that are not Viktor Orbán’s usual stock in trade. It is worth highlighting them.

One of Orbán’s outrageous accusations is that “it is forbidden to say that it is not a coincidence that the masses arrived at our doorsteps but is a planned and directed undertaking.” And that people in Brussels “are plotting to move and settle these aliens among us as soon as possible.” It is also forbidden to say that “the goal of this settlement is to redraw Europe’s religious and cultural patterns, restructure its ethnic foundations, eliminating the nation states, which are the last obstacle of the International.” It is also forbidden to say that “today many people in Brussels are working on the plan of a United States of Europe.”

I think western colleagues of Viktor Orbán should ask the Hungarian prime minister the next time they sit around the conference table in Brussels whether he really thinks they are the ones who are encouraging the refugees from Iran, Iraq, Syria, and other Middle Eastern countries to come to Europe to destroy the very fabric of their own culture. And whether he really believes that they are agents of the Communist International, which is behind the destruction of the nation states.

The internal enemies, who are the direct descendants of the Jewish communists of 1919, and the EU agents of the Communist International are conspiring against the Christian nationalism of Orbán’s Hungary. One could say that these are the paranoid ravings of a madman, but I think he has thought through his position and means every word of it.

March 16, 2016
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Ivan
Guest

Well, he’d give Trump a run for his money, if numbers outside Hungary actually knew …

Ilonka
Guest

Well, these type of comparisons give me hope that this country can and will change, because at the end of the day we are thankfully not the U.S.

Member

The Power of Thought
“Thought through his position”? I think the miserable mess into which Orban has managed to drag Hungary in six short years is ample evidence of his “thinking-through” capacity. I think what Éva meant was that he thought it through how to keep his grip on his position. But that’s all he ever thinks about. And it’s not really “thinking” but just the gut instincts of a sociopath, a manipulator who has no principles or scruples, just self-serving pragmatics.

comment image

Guest

@Stevan Harnad
Today 8:42 pm

I think that apart from his unrestrained and insatiable hunger for power, Orbán is very simply a cunning closet Nazi, who is just somewhat better at concealing his overpowering inclinations in that direction than the late Heider of Austria.

What is interesting however is that the rise of Heider led to severe ostracism of Austria by the EU, while the actual depredations of Orbán merit not even a peep out of Brussels.

On the contrary, the corrupt, proto-facist (or proto-Nazi?) Mafia state run by Orbán & Co is lavishly subsidized by Brussels to the tune of billions of euros each year.

Scary how things have changed very much for the worse, and so quickly, over the past few years on the old continent.

Guest

As to the cartoon, it is rather misleading, since it is not only Orbán who is sitting in that hole, but most people of his nation. who either enthusiastically share and endorse his ideas or flag consent to them by their silence and indifference.

The covert antisemitic outbursts in his speech would have been particularly welcome by the Hungarian (gentile) public, because such outbursts do not merely represent very faithfully their own views on the matter, but further feed their own vile, mindless and ignorant Jew-hate, which makes them feel real good about themselves.

Indeed, it fills them with a great deal of self-satisfied relief to have their Jew-hate and Jew-blame endorsed from on high by the Führer himself, thus obviating any need to look in the mirror and do something about what they see in it.

Guest

Correction: ” . . . or flag IMPLICIT consent to them by their silence and indifference.” at the end of para 1.

Guest

Weimar redux on the magyar ugar (Hungarian wastelands) between Röjtökmuzsaly and Tiszaszentmárton, and Szécsény and Drávafok?

Member

I think “sociopath” has all that covered…

Guest

Duh?

webber
Guest

ambalint.
I think you missed something implicit in that picture. Orban is standing on everyone else in that hole – on all the Hungarians who have sunk to the bottom (or have been pressed there by the Great O). Of course nobody but Orban can see out of the hole, or be seen for that matter.

Guest

Very good! :-))

Observer
Guest

Orbán is simply a cunning opportunist, dictator who’s assent to power and it’s exercise happened to be of the CLASSICAL FASCIST mold.
Ideology, if any, is just a dressing for the deeds, Orban never knew or subscribed t any ideology, but the “me first and only” one.

petofi
Guest

In Orban’s speech, he clearly means to show Hungarians how they are undermined (and why)…and is the reason that Hungarians cannot compete with other European societies–a panacea for the ever-fragile, Hungarian ego. Viktor with the soothing balm for the suffering, Hungarian, self-image. Of course, the dosage of hate keeps ever increasing; and the strutting violence ever more Hitler-like…

In short, don’t expect the Hungarian mainstream to be upset with Viktor’s words-

Guest
Re: ‘Orban’s speech writer and Viktor’s word’s’ Now would that follow that it is ‘Zee Bee’ himself or say an amalgam of the gamut of decisive opinion in the Fidesz camp on the dissemination of hate rhetoric? You know everybody contributes just to make sure there is no mistake in covering all those particularly ‘Magyar’ issues festering from the past now still filtering into the 21st. I’ve watched ZB on tv. Soft spoken guy. Better the fluffiness in his verbiage to make it easy to take in the meaning of his velvety smooth duatribes. And regarding a name here which brings up a memory. Many many years ago after I had returned from visiting Kadarian Hungary I had a correspondence with a cousin who I had never seen. The letters which I received revolved on the apparent dissolution of the extended family because of events. Another was the thought of Petofi and his works. Thus my introduction to ‘freedom’ in another context away from my day to day world in America. I think of my cousin often today. I do not not know if she is alive or dead. If she is I would be curious how she sees her… Read more »
dos929
Guest
Let me express my ‘knee jerk’ reaction… Do you all remember the start of the civil war in Syria? Do you all recall that there was nothing done by the UN, the EU, the US, etc… in order to contain the madman Assad and his regime? Then it is too late now to react to the consequences, i.e. to the hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths and the millions of displaced people, not to speak of the now over a million refugees entering into Europe. And now here is the sad parallel … Do you remember the start of the Orban regime? Do you still recall his dreadful acts of ‘cancelling’ the constitution and replacing it with their own ‘ad hoc’ collection of unscientific, unjust ‘sick’ collection of decrees called ‘Basic Law’? And all this without asking ‘his own’ nation? Do you still remember their steeling the pension funds of over 3 million people? Do you remember anything at all? And you, the EU leaders, did nothing, in spite the hundreds of dreadful deeds committed by the Orban regime that are continuing to date. ‘Talk Fests’, yes. Actions? No. But I am wrong at that. Yes, you did have actions.… Read more »
Guest

@dos929
Today 2:40 am

Sadly, it is no use appealing to world public opinion or the EU with any kind of a touching J’accuse.

Gone are the days when the EU would severely sanction Austria for the rise of Heider, in reality for a heck of a lot less than what Orbán & Co. had already committed and implemented by now in neighbouring Hungary.

The Hungarian people has created and is continuing to maintain the mess they are in, and it is up to them to put an end to it, if they so wish.

But they would have to start with looking in the mirror and do something about what they see in it, which sadly is something that will never happen.

petofi
Guest

@ dos929

I heartily agree. Were it but possible to transplant your anger to the Hungarian society at large. But, sad to say, the fly in the ointment–rarely mentioned in these blog environs–is the nature of Hungarian society itself. Who was it who said, “Character is Destiny?” If so, than Hungary deserves what is now happening; and what will happen in the near future.

Let’s restate the framework: no country during warII and the domination of nazi Germany of Europe did what Hungary did with its jews–send 400,000 more to Auschwitz than the nazis asked for; and then, for good measure, PASSED A LAW to deprive those same jews of their goods, to the benefit of the neighbours who asked for them!

So, one must ask: was there a general uproar? Did any group oppose
such blatant theft, let alone fight against the increased numbers of humans being deported? None.

Again, “Character is Destiny”.

Hungarians have the leader they deserve.

What the future brings is well-deserved as well.

Guest
@petofi Today 5:21 am Just a small correction on the sequence of events. The three Jew Laws were passed between 1938 and 1941. Auschwitz came three years after that. According to the data on page 91 of The Geographical Encyclopedia of the Hungarian Holocaust (Chief Editor Randolph L. Braham), there were 825,007 Jews in Greater Hungary at the start of the war. Before the Germans ‘occupied’ Hungary on 19 March 1944, the Hungarians already murdered 62,000 Jews in the Ukraine (42,000 slave labourers of the Hungarian Army slave labour service and 20,000 ‘stateless’ Jews they expelled and handed over to the Germans to be murdered in Kamenetz Podolsk), as well as another 1,000 Jews who were slaughtered by the Hungarians in Voivodina. Between the start of the German ‘occupation’ and the loss of the war in 1945, the Hungarians murdered a further 501,507 Jewish children, women, men and old people, the majority by dispatching them in cattle wagons to Auschwitz and other German death factories in circumstances that were almost unimaginably horrific and bestial. Jews also perished in their hundreds and thousands by mass shootings into the Danube in Budapest, by forced death marches from Budapest to Austria, and also… Read more »
petofi
Guest

@ambalint

“…only 100K Hungarian Jews…”

Having looked into this a bit…I can’t quite recall where I got that notion. It might have been a misinterpretation by some essayist of an agreed upon number between
Hitler and Horthy. But may be that was only an initial shipment of jews. I’ve tried some search of sites and didn’t come upon the idea–in original sources–that Germans had only wanted 100,000 jews. The one comment I did find was that Germans were surprised by the enthusiastic, and efficient response of the Hungarian deportation. Auschwitz got a much bigger influx of Hungarian jews than they could handle in the late summer of 44. (Lucky for me, too, because my mother’s train was rerouted from Auschwitz to Bergen Belsen…)

With regard to the ‘jew laws’, I was referencing the fact that the Hungarians passed a law allowing neighbours to claim the possessions of jews who had been deported in 1944. Again, I haven’t noted sources for reference…

Guest

OK, thanks anyway. :-))

Mihal
Guest

I totally agree with your opinion. Despite of what Orban is suggesting about Hungary being under attack, it seems the opposite is true. You would think that if the West is against Orban it would cover the protest and give extensive attention to his hate speech in the new, but the opposite is true. As good as nothing was shown of the demonstration on the mainstream channels and remarks about the speech you can only find in opinion pieces. The demonstrations in Poland get a lot of attention though.
If anything seems true it’s not allowed to show what is going on in Hungary. If makes you wonder if the west of Europe is quite happy to blame the lack of action in the immigration crisis on the unwilling Orban. They couldn’t care less about the state of democracy here.

Guest
I think that it was madness to invite the accession of former Soviet block countries and Greece into the EU and the Schengen area in a triumph of pious hope over elementary common sense, and that it is utter doggone mindless lunacy even to contemplate inviting a Muslim-authoritarian, autocratic Turkey and the rest of the corrupt Balkans, including a non-country like Bosnia Herzegovina, to join the club. Haven’t the EU elites got enough problems with the likes of the Hungarians, Slovaks and Poles? Hard to figure what the EU elites are on or what they are smoking, but one thing is sure, they truly are spineless gluttons for punishment. Orbán knows this full well, and exploits it to the hilt. His rhetoric and his attitude today to the Western powers that sustain him and keep him in power is in principle no different from Hitler’s rhetoric and attitudes in Munich in 1938, except that whilst the Germany of that time was truly a fearsome tiger baring its teeth, a tiger furthermore that certainly did not depend for its survival on Western financial, military and strategic sustenance in any way, shape and form, Orbán is just the big mouth of a… Read more »
Guest

And let us bear in mind that when Orbán is accusing the Jews and the West of all kinds of dark and nefarious, albeit absolutely imaginary conspiracies against pore-li’l sainted and ever-suffering Hungary, he is just blowing smoke over his own and his cronies’ indeed dark, nefarious and thoroughly stomach turning kleptocratic conspiracies against their own people, who however remain happily and willingly sedated by the torrents of nationalist and antisemitic eye-wash that Orbán and his cronies regularly feed them with.

Guest

London Calling!

Hungary? A country ‘saving Europe’ – that doesn’t need saving.

Hungary? A country ‘swamped by immigrants’ that has no immigrants.

Hungary? A so-called democracy with no democracy.

Regards

Charlie

CONCERNED
Guest

The big problem with Hungary is not so much Orban who I believe is pretty dreadful but it is the absence of a viable and organised opposition which could potentially govern. At present the opposition is fragmented, self serving and generally dismal with the notable exception of Jobbik who are EVEN WORSE than Fidesz.

Member

Winners and Losers
@CONCERNED? The very same solemn pronouncement as yours is very frequently posted here, usually by triumphal Turul trolls who just keep braying that Orban always wins and the opposition are just losers. Sometimes it is voiced, under the implicit influence of Orban’s propaganda, by defeatist democrats who need to reflect more deeply:
(1) Do you really mean that you would not gladly swap the current Orban kleptocracy for any one of the democratic opposition parties currently on offer?
(2) Do you really mean that any democratic citizen with sense would not gladly do the same?
If you mean (1), you are not a democrat.
If you mean (2), then you are saying that it is not just Orban but the culture that is at fault for Orban’s depredations. (In that case we can only hope that the culture is now beginning to wake up, thanks to Mr. Pukli and his co-activists. Even with election gerry-rigging, media control and intimidation, Orban hasn’t a chance if the populace comes to its senses. The EU would not tolerate a police state in its midst. And without EU support, the Carpathiain Basement would become Turul Zimbabwe.)

comment image

Guest

Great image. Not sure where this comes from and don’t see anything noting the creator. But as for the latter I understand completely.

Guest

@Stevan Harnad
March 17, 2016 11:01 am

Ill-tempered shooting the messenger, ad hominem disparagement of that messenger and deliberate misconstrual of the message is not only self-defeating and pointless, but also shows a certain lack of intellectual integrity.

And indiscriminately labelling ‘triumphant Turul troll’ even by implication any contributor who just happens to push a wrong button in your head is not only risible and insulting, but completely devalues and, indeed, vitiates the impact of the label when it is applied to genuine trolls.

Instead of bad tempered shooting the messenger you would do better if you responded with calm and rational argument that would throw light on the issues raised, and perhaps even offer possible solutions, rather than just thrashing about and generating much heat and little light.

roktiv
Guest

I wonder much does former governor George Pataki get from the Orban government (ie. from Hungarian taxpayers)?

George Pataki’s love song to Orban and his system.

http://index.hu/belfold/2016/03/17/george_pataki_odaig_van_az_orban-rendszerert/

Guest

Georgie must be getting some free lunches at a cut- rate diner. I’d think he needs to expand his circle of ‘friends’. If politics is smoke and mirrors he’s getting pretty big wafts of it in his face.

spectator
Guest
Something went quite astray with the metaphors, though. Both in the original Hungarian and the official English version (http://www.miniszterelnok.hu/in_english_article/speech_by_prime_minister_viktor_orban_on_15_march_) he explicitly referring to “host animal” and then “its leaves and branches”, not to mention “its roots”. Well, either he studied biology in Hungary quite recently in the new system of education, or perhaps there is such newly discovered exclusively Hungarian animal what I somehow missed? Or the Hungarian Prime Minister really such illiterate moron as he sounds? Otherwise the whole speech is a stylistic and rhetoric disaster, one really need strong stomach to listen to. While reading it you may skip the voice, kind of blessing. The above mentioned part in English and Hungarian: “Ladies and Gentlemen,    Not even the uplifting mood of a celebration day can let us forget that the tradition of 1919, too, is still with us – though fortunately its pulse is just a faint flicker. Yet at times it can make quite a noise. But without a host animal, its days are numbered. It is in need of another delivery of aid from abroad in the form of a major intellectual and political infusion; unless it receives this, then after its leaves and branches… Read more »
Guest
@spectator Today 7:58 am The ‘host animal’ (gazdaállat) is presumably Hungarian Jewry and other ‘liberals’ that are parasitical (élősködők) on Orbán’s metaphorical plant representing pore-li’l sainted and ever-suffering Hungary. Thank God that these Jew parasites and their running dogs are now starved of fresh doses of nefarious and alien (idegenlelkű) anti-Hungarian ideas that would sustain them! And presumably, heroic Viktor the Victorious is standing in the breach to make sure that things stay this way forever, and that any such resupply of ideas would be quickly brought to a dead halt in the future before it could infect and despoil the innocent virtues of the ever-suffering Hungarian nation, so brave and indomitable under endless vile assaults by THE Jews and their running dogs. :-))) The guy is a complete stomach-turning slimeball, nincompoop and general a*sehole, a genuine retard whose mind is locked in a time warp some time back in the 1920s. Hungarians truly got themselves a Führer they richly deserve. And if Orbán was indeed intending to try and stop any more of those nefarious Jewish influences from filtering into his beloved Vaterland from the West, he would no doubt have about as much luck with that as the… Read more »
Guest

Sorry, BIG SCREW-UP in para 1, which should have read as follows:

The ‘host animal’ (gazdaállat) is presumably Hungarian Jewry and its gentile running dogs that like parasitical plants on the body of the nation, are sucking out the juices of Orbán’s pore-li’l sainted and ever-suffering Hungary.

Apologies, I was deeply asleep at the wheel. :-))

Guest

Wow. If there are any words to give off an unctuous and pungent smell of an age and era it’s those such as ‘gazdaallat’ and ‘eloskodok’. They go in my notebook. The Orban word-Meisters in proffering old and used vocabularies continue to generate contempt and revulsion of others in their debasement of language.

And Xerxes. Have to say there was a strange rationality in The Great King’s megalomania to conquer the Greeks. His sprawling Empire practically ruled the known world then. He wasn’t the ‘big kiraly’ for nothing.

And Orban in contrast looks a lowly satrap within the contemplation of some rebirth within empire. And some may not see it but perhaps ruins beckon as a new ‘Persepolis’ is being created in Central Europe. Question is how long will Magyar satraps dissemble toward decline and fall?

spectator
Guest

I hardly think that in any civilised self respecting European country he would get away with such speech without serious consequences.

But thanks God he is in Hungary, so we can rest assured he will stay in office quite a while.

Guest

Amen. :-))

Guest

Unctious and pungent. Wow, you got it in one! :-))

Istvan
Guest

Fidesz is now in addition to its war footing in relation to the EU in a full scale Pukli war and it is raging in Hungary with intensity.

There are many articles today, for those who read Hungarian, on the current Hungarian strike law and a possible one hour walk out by school staff on March 30 worth reading this is one http://nol.hu/belfold/a-sztrajk-nem-jatek-1606657#comments_1606657 The posted comments are also worth reading, there were numerous references to 1956 in them. This article http://nol.hu/belfold/pukli-visszauzent-orbannak-a-valodi-ebredesuk-fajdalmas-lesz-1606667 discusses PM Orban’s response to Stephen Pukli’s apology call and there are a large number of comments on this article and many attacks from apparent Fidesz supporters on the legitimacy of Pukli, called “comrade Pukli” often, attempts to link Soros to Pukli, etc. There are also many comments in support of Pukli.

In this interview from a week ago Pukli responds point by point to Fidesz claims he is effectively an MSZP front man http://nol.hu/belfold/pukli-istvan-visszavag-gyomorforgato-hogy-az-m1-a-szuleimet-kezdte-el-zaklatni-1604455 One of my family members has given me links to numerous Facebook pages where Pukli wars are being waged.

Guest

@Istvan
Today 8:47 am

I just hope that there is some reasonably effective personal security around Pukli, because attempts at crippling thrashings and even assassination attempts could not be ruled out under the circumstances.

Member

Alongside the “host and parasite” metaphor, one small but essential detail has gone largely unnoticed: the myth of one and unified nation with a unitary, unified culture. As Orbán states towards the end of his speech: “They [= the Bad Guys in Brussels or the Wise of Zion, the joint forces of international Big Business and cosmopolite Commies, the Freemasons, Illuminati, the hidden world government, you name it] would like to mix cultures, religions and masses of people, until our colourful and proud Europe has become anaemic and obedient.” (Összevegyítenek kultúrákat, vallásokat és embertömegeket, míg végül a mi sokszínű és büszke Európánk vérszegény és engedelmes nem lesz.)
The real tragedy is that the majority of Hungarians will never understand the inner controversy in this. Actually, what Orbán’s government is doing is replacing the colourful, polyphone, controversial and conflict-ridden history of Hungary and its ethnocultural diversity with an anaemic, naïve and kitschy myth of a “pure” Hungarian nation and its “pure” culture. And already long before Orbán, all too many Hungarians were raised and educated to believe in this myth.

Guest

@Sentrooppa-Santra
Today 9:32 am

Too true, and it is fascinating to ponder what it is exactly that Orbán and his ilk feel so scary and evil about intermixing cultures, religions and peoples.

This narrow-minded and tunnel-visioned Hungarian nationalism goes way back in 19th century history, but spawned its full flowering only after Trianon.

Interestingly, until the end of WW1, Hungarians were at least bilingual, if not trilingual, and some cases even quadrilingual.

That was deliberately eradicated by the Hungarian education system after Trianon, when an impoverished monolingualism became a dopey and pig-ignorant national virtue.

Guest

Here is one of the biggest differences between Jews and Hungarians.

Jews tend to self-flagellate themselves all the time for supposedly IT (whatever that may be) being all their fault. (neurotics)

Hungarians tend to flagellate anyone else but themselves all the time when IT (whatever that may be) is actually all their fault. (psychotics)

:-))

csabai
Guest

I think this was made public earlier, but it’s interesting to read it nonetheless.

Ivan Fischer (who is the acclaimed leader of the Budapest Festival Orchestra) writing to Vernon Jordan (which email was forwarded to the closest aides to Clinton) about Hillary Clinton’s impending visit to Budapest.

Fischer contended that then-ambassador Eleni Kouonalakis was way too close to Orban. I wonder how could Orban dazzle Kounalakis?

The leaked emails of course show how personal relations do matter (contrary to the myth that the American administration is full of professionals who know it better and it doesn’t matter who the ambassador is etc. etc.).

Orban coopted Kounalakis in no time who naturally wanted to remain in Budapest (she had nothing to do back home).

Orban is pretty good at duping clueless foreigners, although I guess by now the situation is clearer.

https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/27521

Guest

Re: ‘duping clueless foreigners’

Unfortunately and this is my personal opinion Magyarorszag is apparently a sleepy, droopy backwater moseying on along in the global streets. People here don’t even know where it is. It’s not even in consciousness. Anything there probably has no meaning whatsoever. Of course its an understatement to say it’s a bad state of affairs. This is what we get with apparently alien societies. And the autocrats play on that…. to the world’s detriment. Point to ponder: ‘For want of a nail the shoe was lost’.

Member

OT: It is no surprise to find out that previously liberal news portal, that was purchased by an interest group including Matolcsy’s cousin, borrowed the money through MKB (a national bank tied to Matolcsy), and now (surprise) Andy Vajna’s great friend will become the chief editor.

An other news from Peter Juhasz (Egyutt) is that the there will be no consequences of Antal Rogan supposed illegal real estate deals as the councillor of district 5, as the electronic files containing all transactions somehow became corrupted (no pun intended)! https://www.facebook.com/Juhi.JuhaszPeter/photos/a.486159078123247.1073741827.478686885537133/1037756189630197/?type=3&theater

JGrant
Guest

Eva! The Facebook link isn’t working. I thought you might have a look at it.

Guest

For me it works – but it takes a long time to load …

Guest

Gallows humour – the usual suspects on tumblr have already taken over O’s speech and gave it subtitles:
http://kepeslajoska.tumblr.com/
And some “funny” pictures:
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Guest

Oh oh. If we could fast forward this scene the one on the left could be saying ‘Build my gallows high baby’. One of the greatest lines in all of film noir.

spectator
Guest

It seems that not everyone happy about the ‘developments’ in Hungary.
Not even among Fidesz, not even members of the old core-group who initially started it.
István Stumpf, Orbán’s friend and ally from the beginning published recently an essay,— quite critical , I would say — in a TÁRKI publishing, titled “Citizen and the Rule of Law” , with the telltale subtitle “The metamorphosis of a college generation”

Translating it beyond my capacity, sorry, but you can find the downloadable article here:
http://www.tarki.hu/hu/news/2016/kitekint/magyarpolgar/stumpf.pdf

and the whole book in this link:

http://www.tarki.hu/hu/news/2016/kitekint/20160308_polgar.html

Well, just to get the mood of those good ol’ times 1984 — and have some further information too:

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Yes, on the photo you see István Stumpf on the left, a “köcsög” (jug) in the middle and Viktor Orbán on the right.
Time flies, and here the Prime Minister and the member of the so called Constitutional Court (never mind, there is no Constitution, only FundaMENTAL Law nowadays) having a good time attending a soccer match in 2012:

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polg
Guest

Stumpf is still and forever will be Orban’s supporter. Stumpf became a very wealthy man as a result of Orban’s system.

Stumpf tries to be a bit more balanced, more reasonable, that’s his image. He has good personal relationships with background players of the left-wing (or rather was used to be the left-wing).

Orban is partly Stumpf’s creation, his life’s work, Orban (and Fidesz) is part of Stumpf’s identity.

So don’t attach much significance to the article. Orban allows Stumpf to be a more critical, but Orban knows Stumpf will never leave Fidesz. He can’t. Stumpf without Fidesz does not exist.

Guest

A bit OT and funny in a way:
Stumpf sounds German (in English it would be dull or blunt) like Drumpf (US presidential candidate Trump’s original family name) – so it’s the Germans’ fault again? 🙂

webber
Guest

Stumpf just realized that the regime might fall, and is hedging his bets.
The SOB remains persona non grata in my books (not that he would care).
Mar. 15 was the first time in my memory that more people were protesting against Orban than went to hear him talk.
The tide has turned.

ibike
Guest

re the tide: in Budapest.

Otherwise I agree.

By the way Stumpf’s father-in-law, the last minister of interior (Istvan Horvath) before the fall of communism is still alive, and actually he was once a minister of interior before, in 1980, too. As a result, both the father-in-law and Stumpf know a few things about Orban and his friends (and others).

webber
Guest

re the tide:
Fidesz wanted to bus in people from outside Budapest this year, as well, as they always do. Not many people were interested. They couldn’t fill the space they had, and had to push the cordons together because the crowd was so small.

I’d say that indicates the tide has turned outside Budapest, too. I can say for a certainty, from personal experience now, that it has in parts of E. Hungary.

Guest

@webber
March 17, 2016 3:52 pm

Now that is good news indeed!

The question is what will Hungarians do with this opportunity, make something of it this time, or screw up as usual.

webber
Guest

Molto grazie for details about Stumpf’s father-in-law. Didn’t know that.

spectator
Guest

And that’s one of the reasons why they have been treated mildly by the authorities when he was the ‘resistent hero’ of the time.

Istvan
Guest

I was wondering what the crowd numbers were for Orban’s speech, I did not see any crowd numbers given in the articles I looked at or the M1 TV report either. If you have an article with such a cite please post it.

Observer
Guest

A bit late, but here’s a link to a video from the site of March 15th Orban speech. Very interesting.
http://propeller.hu/itthon/3201891-elkepeszto-felvetel-orban-marcius-15-beszederol-hivatasos-csapolokhoz

spectator
Guest

`’Stumpf will never leave Fidesz. He can’t. Stumpf without Fidesz does not exist`’

Of course, no doubts about it. However, I’ve never before read anything like this from a ‘senior’ member of the establishment. I still think that Stumpf would like to survive the post-Orbanian times too, so he working on it.

csuri
Guest

spectator, sure, but he’s always been like that. There’s nothing new in Stumpf’s – mildly – critical stance.

Stumpf could – if he really wanted to – leave Fidesz outright after what Fidesz created (ie. African style kleptocracy, corruption and incompetence). But he will not do so. Instead capitalizing on his ‘centrist’ image he is indeed preparing for new times.

Maybe Stumpf’s instincts are better than his protegee’s.

That said Stumpf should knows that he should not fear, no leftist power could hold even the top fideszniks accountable (let alone third rate ones like Stumpf). He will not suffer for a day in any way. The leftists just don’t have that commitment and legal capabilities to carry out (even if they could somehow neutralize Peter Polt’s prosecution) such program. They will do at most what in 2002 Laszlo Keller did (ie. nothing).

Mark Weston
Guest

I agree with him 100%. Nicve to see progressives always try to reduce freedom of speech by drowning out the speech of a right winger they disagree with. Nobody wants migrants, not in Hungary, not in UK (Brexit) , not anywhere in Europe otherwise the far right would not be rising in popularity (the are simply crazy and extremely dangerous). Orban just tells what most people think who dont consider themselves to be intellectually superior to others (socialists)

Guest

Another UKIP idiot has spoken …
So many Hungarian migrants were accepted over the years in Western Europe, USA, Canada, Australia – but many of them seem to have forgotten that …

webber
Guest

Mark Weston – I hope Orbán leaves Hungary and runs for office in your country.

Birtokbor
Guest

And steal as much as Orban did. That would even be significant for the UK’s economy.

Ilonka
Guest
So receiving criticism is akin to a muzzle now… I am so sick and tired of this pretense of exercising “freedom of speech” by being a proud bigot. I grew up in the US, and funnily enough, despite Orbán’s disdain for many American things, this is a very American thing to do. The First Amendment is being dragged through the mud just so these kind of people can pretend they’re brave hotshots. Accusing those hurt (actually, really hurt) by these ideas of over-sensitivity, and yet it’s them who are too sensitive to see the world. And it’s anyone different from them who must tip-toe and monitor their actions. Refugees must meet this unattainable image of perfect suffering and disavow their own values and culture to be trusted- but never enough for him. Say one word wrong and they get accused of terrorism. On an entirely different topic but following this theme, his conditional “patient tolerance” for the LGBT community (covered on this site). It is actually forbidden then too to be honest about mistreatment, or even have casual conversation! Then we get less respect and rights, ever so mindful he or like minded can paint us as the bad gays.… Read more »