The neo-nazi kuruc.info discovered the Jewish Hungarian Spectrum

This morning I woke up to the news that Hungarian Spectrum was the subject of an article that appeared on the notorious neo-Nazi website kuruc.info. Actually, it is surprising that it took the editors that long to discover the site–or at least to deem it worthy of excoriation. After all, Hungarian Spectrum will celebrate its eighth birthday in June.

Over the years I have written about kuruc.info numerous times. In 2009 I told the story of the farcical “investigation” the Hungarian police conducted that naturally came up empty-handed. Everybody knows that kuruc.info is written and edited in Budapest, but the Hungarian national security team and the police act as if they were powerless because the site is on an American server. In fact, Viktor Orbán went so far as to blame the U.S. government for refusing to cooperate with the Hungarians’ honest efforts to eradicate this blight from the Hungarian-language landscape of the internet. I also indicated that Előd Novák, one of the most radical anti-Semites in Jobbik, is most likely behind kuruc.info.

This first piece was followed by another post titled “The hunters and the hunted: Kuruc.info’s list of anti-Hungarians,” which dealt with a blood bounty on everyone who participated in a demonstration against László Csatáry, a former police officer in charge of the Košice/Kassa Jewish ghetto in the summer of 1944. One of the participants whose name appeared on kuruc.info’s hate list filed a complaint after receiving harassing telephone calls, like one that said, “If I were you, I would take out life insurance.”

A year later a journalist from Index discovered a huge billboard advertising kuruc.info. He began investigating the case on his own. As a result, his e-mail address and telephone number ended up on the pages of kuruc.info. You can imagine what followed. His life became a living hell. Kuruc.info trolls phoned him non-stop, and his e-mail inbox was overflowing. This time around, even Tamás Deutsch (Fidesz EP MP), who happens to be Jewish, gave 72 hours to the prosecutors “to put an end to this Nazi website. No more evasion. No more on the one hand and on the other. Stand up on your hind legs and act.” Of course, nothing happened then or ever since. Clearly, it is not in the interest of Fidesz to put an end to kuruc.info.

So now Hungarian Spectrum is the target. Since many of you are unable to read kuruc.info in the original, I will try my best to share some of the highlights of this article, which is not an easy task given kuruc.info’s base style. I also decided to translate some of the sixty or so comments which, if possible, are even worse than the article itself.

"They don't like kuruc.info--Everybody else do

“They don’t like kuruc.info–Everybody else does”

Hungarian Spectrum is not the lone target of the article. Kuruc.info’s editors also find Hungarian Free Press, a Canadian website, highly objectionable. What you have to understand is that, as far as the editors of kuruc.info are concerned, everything that is wrong in this world is the fault of the Jews. Also, in their eyes there are Jews and there are Hungarians. If you are Jewish, by definition you are anti-Hungarian. And, I guess, if you are perceived to be anti-Hungarian, you must be Jewish. It is in this light that one must understand the title of the article: “Hungarian Spectrum and Hungarian Free Press: Can One Be More Jewish about Hungarians?” Yes, I know it sounds strange, but it doesn’t make much sense in Hungarian either: “Hungarian Spectrum és Hungarian Press: lehet zsidóbbul a magyarokról?”

And here are the highlights. The article begins with a description of the state of the opposition media. On Klubrádió “a Jewish reporter talks to Jews, he interviews Jews, his expert is Jewish, the man who talks about Christianity is also Jewish.” However, “only a few of us know anything about those who dare to put the adjective ‘Hungarian’ in the name of their websites.” Clearly, they are also Jewish.

The author placed Hungarian Spectrum first because it is “a very influential” website. Then came a few words about the person responsible for the content of the blog: “if there is a disgusting Jewish reptile on the face of the earth it is the sole scribbler of the blog, Eva S. Balogh.” The writer claims that “this Zhidrakova even according to her own website has not much connection to Hungary.” Zhidrakova is supposed to be a Russified version of the Hungarian word for “Jew-Jewish.”

Hungarian Spectrum’s primary subject is “naturally” anti-Semitism. “It is only after that the usual topoi come: the extreme right, the right—which are, as far as she is concerned, the same. Both remind her of Szálasi.” Her main source of information is Klubrádió, which is “as much Hungarian as a pork chop is kosher.”

There is an English-language post every day, which is applauded by her many “pure-bred followers in the thoroughly filtered comments.” The pure-breds I guess refer to Jews. She put forth “an unusually long post last Sunday, which can only be described as ‘vomit.’” The author is referring to the post titled “József Mindszenty: An inveterate anti-Semite or a national hero?” “What conclusion did she come to about the non-Jewish leader of the Hungarian Catholic Church who was tortured by the AVO, sentenced to life, who spent many years in jail? You’re right. Balogh announced her verdict: The former prince primate was an inveterate anti-Semite.”

Magyar Narancs, in which Zoltán Paksy’s interview about Mindszenty’s anti-Semitism appeared, is also called a Jewish publication. And “the fact that [Paksy] is the author of a book called Arrow-Cross Movement in Hungary, 1932-1939, tells everything about this character.” “Quoting Paksy, she [the scribbler] comes to the conclusion that Mindszenty doesn’t deserve to have the memorial center built in Zalaegerszeg.”

“This is so nauseating that we should close this review of Hungarian Spectrum, but we would like to ask quite independently from what József Mindszenty did or did not write, on what basis did Menachem Begin, prime minister of Israel, receive the Nobel Peace Prize in 1978 when he, with his terror organization Irgun, blew up the King David Hotel in 1945 where 91 persons, mostly Brits, lost their lives?”

A quick response to this article. Quite independently from its anti-Semitic discourse, it ought to be clear to anyone who read my post on Mindszenty that kuruc.info distorts the whole drift of my piece. It is also a lie that comments are “thoroughly filtered.”  I have had to resort to the drastic measure of putting someone on the black list surprisingly few times. And yes, I tolerate neither anti-Semitic talk nor obscenity of the kind found on many Hungarian sites. I’m very proud of the high-level discourse that takes place on Hungarian Spectrum day after day.

Now let’s see some of the comments.

“One should hunt these people like MOSSAD hunted the Nazis.”

“The Führer said way back that every day that the Jewish press doesn’t wage a hate campaign against him he feels that he didn’t do his duty.”

“This is how things go in the West. Every Hungarian organization is eventually taken over by a Jew.”

“I call the attention of a few well-trained Hungarian hackers to these sites.”

“When the last Jew dies (megdöglik/used for the death of an animal) world peace will arrive.”

[To someone who dared disagree with the majority] “What’s up, you Jewish bastard? How do you dare to open your mouth, you inferior worm?”

April 27, 2016
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Member

I went to this site (kuruc) and read the comments, I thought to maybe comment, just for entertainment, but then reconsidered. Not worth my time, even in fun.

ambator
Member

I see you couldn’t resist the temptation to dwell on this article. I have read it earlier thanks to Chris Adam, who alerted me to it.
Well, I think it would have been better to resist; let sleeping dogs lie. This morbid fascination with the blood hounds of nazism reminds me of the story of Erno Szep, a Jew, who regularly kept on purchasing the most disgusting nazi weekly just after the siege of Budapest, as long as it was still being published. But it was obvious that it is coming to its end, so, he noted: “how am I going to be able to live without this?”

Guest

Ambator: Erno Szep was a poet, author of “The Smell of Human”, a book I have not been able to finish. That he bought the Nazi weekly is/was his business and in no way relates to Eva’s discussion of Kuruc. I, unlike you, am unable to read Kuruc. So I am grateful for this edition of HS. Of course, I am aware of Kuruc and sometimes go there to look at the pictures. It is good to view all aspects of the landscape.

gdfxx
Guest

I hope that garbage is hidden from the landscape. As landfills, outhouses are, usually.

Member

The problem with sites like Kuruc is that they convince some Hungarians that it is a legitimate news source. It feeds on the hatred and suffering of the average Hungarian and makes them feel as though there is someone to blame other than themselves and the current government for the financial situation of so many of the public services, the school system, the healthcare system and the jobbless situation many of them find themselves in. It glorifies Jobbik and makes the young people feel like they can perhaps belong to something important. It is actually a very scary example of what is happening in central Europe.

de@y
Guest

Is it not by chance orchestrated by Moscow?

The folk can be immune once it is told that the kuruc.info is a Russian disinformation applied to suffering Hungarians.

Observer
Guest

I wonder what would be the dimwits on Kc say if someone repeated their filth and threats replacing “libsi” with “fascist”.
Or if we support their authoritarian ideas and radical action recepies, but the dictator is one of us …
Because the Jobbik have complained many about alleged fringements on their freedoms..

Member

The opus is signed by a certain “Janos Szalonna”, which is an alias of course (John Bacon literally). He or she is a prolific nazi writer on the kuruc.info. Worst of the worst. The signature appeared first in 2012. I believe the person behind the alias is a prominent JOBBIK politician, perhaps Elod Novak himself.

By the way what happened to our friend Bela Varga? The guy who was the American connection of the kuruc.info? Last year he and his wife, Judit Pesti, were both wanted by law enforcement in California. The last thing we heard was they jumped bail and ended up in Canada. The wife’s case is still on the Sonoma county court system’s website:

http://da.sonoma-county.org/victim_witness_court_information.aspx?sid=1023&cas=SCR654240&def=1958248&cci=605587

Judit baby, needed a little more food stamps?

Latefor
Guest

Every morning I read the Hungarian Spectrum, the kuruc-info etc. (I guess, I’m a sucker for phsycolgical torture 🙂 )
In my opinion, there are just as many bloodthirsty anti-Hungarians as vicious anti-Semites.
It takes two to tango. (ACTION/REACTION) There are people out there who just love to hate. Period.

Obsever
Guest

@latefor

Very lame try, as usual.

Anti Hungarian is the Orban gang robbing the country and destroying its fabric. Working against this mafia is a patriotic act – the sooner we get rid of these bloodsuckers the better for 95% of the Hungarians.

Member

Latefor is an attention seeker, she only comes here to get a reaction, don’t feed her.

Latefor
Guest

How do you know who or what I am? I’ve never seen you commenting on this blog before?!

Member

I’ve been here for years, the new login system wouldn’t allow me to use my facebook account to login, so it made me create a user name.

Member

I agree! Kuruc info not only anti-semite but anti-Hungarian. I understand, you are not jewish, and certainly not friend of Hungarians, so you have noting to worry about! Keep on reading!

Member

I’m jewish. What’s now?

Guest

‘I never wonder to see men wicked, but I often wonder to see them not ashamed’

The esteemed novel writer who gave us ‘Gulliver’s Travels’ hits home in Magyarorszag with this one. Magyarorszag: where psychopathology is alive and humming.

Guest

”Magyarorszag: where psychopathology is alive and humming.”

Maybe you are on the right track: Antisemitism is a psychopathology. If so it might be possible to develop a drug against antisemitism, or even better, a broad spectrum drug against hate. There are many more hating people in the world than there are diabetics.

Latefor
Guest

There is a drug against anti-Semitism and anti-Hungarianism!
It is called: R E S P E C T – believe it or not, this medicine has no side effects;
it heals the tortured souls;
it gives hope to thousands and it makes people feel better than even bottle of Merlot .
Why don’t the haters and the hate creators try this exceptional drug?

Guest
Latefor
Guest

Jean P –
Ok. F@#k it. I don’t care anymore. You guys are unable to comprehend the true meaning of the word: ‘respect’.
Keep on provoking the Hungarians. ACTION/REACTION
Unbelievable!

Member

It is you, who are provoking Hungarians by approving this government who clearly robbing Hungarians blind? Why are you supporting these criminals? Why are you hating Hungarians so much?

Obsever
Guest

Spot on. Solzhenicin said about Stalin:

He must have hated the Russians very much.

Obsever
Guest

Come on! Respect for the félművelt felcsúti fél..y leading a gang of thieves and fascists !!
To paraphrase the old slogan:
Vesszen Orbán! (May Orban perish) or

I urge on all patriots and friends of Hungary to strike at this regime as they can.

Orban delenta est.

Guest

“Whilst the Oh So Birghts are busy with “creative destruction” the “not so brights” -like myself- are studying the Bible. There is not much we can do. For now, that is.”

Member

I think you need to re-evaluate your own ideas Latefor, if you are going to identify your Hungarian heritage with that of your government, than were you a commie? Or should we have simply called being against the communist government, as being “anti-Hungarian”? Just asking.

Member

Maybe you should try to take it!

Member

Please define anti-Hungarianism? Because if that is what you would like to label people here, you better have a reason. Or is it just your “excuse” term to be hateful yourself?

Latefor
Guest

. . .and tell me my Precious: which LOBBY group do you belong to? How about doing some research first before you start your well-placed attack? Oh, I understand . . . you are trying to force me into a corner. . . putting words into my mouth. Turn the sh#t around? Hmm . . . 🙂

Guest

Complete bullocks from Latefor as usual with the intelligence quotient barely registering.

borb2016 is one of our most knowledgeable contributors – who knows Hungary and Hungarians like the back of her hand.

And knows what’s happening in Hungary – which is more than Latefor would ever know.

Liz Aucoin is a regular here with a Hungarian Roma background – and with her finger on the pulse.

Lobby group? You wouldn’t recognise one if it came out of your place where the sun don’t shine – but from where you know how to talk.

Go back to your Bible?

Guest

……..and kuruc.info?

Member

Lobby group??? hahahahaha, not forcing you anywhere “precious”! I’m not putting words into your mouth, you are spitting out rediculous commentary, that is on you, not me.

Rozsi
Guest

” Hungarians appear to be a socially very sick people for the most part, suffering from a kind of chronic mental retardation, sunk in pathetic ignorance and possessed of a deeply ingrained malevolence. ” (summer 2015 HS)

Latefor
Guest

@Rozsi – how about some of the gems I’ve come across over the years from a few vindictive commentators here?
According to some of the well-respected commentators, Hungarians are:
“genetically inferior morons”
“useless scumbags”
“hopeless scumbags”
“bogatyas peasants”
“sick psychopaths” and many more.
Please note: These commentators are NOT attacking the Hungarian politicians in here, there are talking about the Hungarian people.
I call this vicious, malicious character assassination on the world stage. It’s been going on for far too long.

I believe I clearly defined anti -Hungarianism.

Rozsi
Guest

If those phrases were used to describe any identifiable group of people, then they must have come from the “Kuruc dictionary of hate”

webber
Guest

Megköszöném, ha abahagynák. Nagyon unom a refrént, hogy “egyesek azért antiszemiták, mert rólunk rondát mondott egy zsidó.” Szánalmas.

webber
Guest

And now a word from our sponsors:

Guest

On the theme, tonight I’ll probably pop in ‘Cabaret’. We’re in the 21st now but to understand some things today in some places it’s helpful to get some perspective before the ‘center’ may start to get undone.

Rozsi
Guest

There is no excuse for antisemitism nor for anti-Hungarian comments.

If you insult Hungarians , you are insulting Hungarian who happen to be Jewish, so you point is?

No doubt there are disgusting racist in Hungary but it doesn’t matter whether they are Catholic,
Rerformatus, Jewish or Hindu – racism is evil and divides people.

I

Latefor
Guest

Rozsi-
Those phrases were used by some of the contributors on this blog. This is the way they see the Hungarian people. If you dare to speak up against their vicious attacks, they will do anything in their power to humiliate you.
Are you scared? Is this the reason of your sudden turn?

webber
Guest

Rozsi made no “sudden turn.” She merely condemned anti-Semitism and anti-Hungarianism alike. (look at what she said, above – she was consistent)

So, why did you suggest she has made a “turn” as if you think she is a traitor?

The only answer I can find is:

Apparently you have a problem with people who decry anti-Semitism among (some) Hungarians.

Rozsi
Guest

Sudden turn? I wasn’t brought up to differentiate between Hungarians according to religion and I always took pride in Hungarians’ achievements without researching their religious background. (Heaven deliver me from all religious people who believe their religion trumps all other religions)

If there are Hungarian Jewish or Hungarian non-Jewish people who see themselves as ” us vs. them” , that is unfortunate. If what you say is correct and Hungarians who are Jewish made the comments you are referring to, then they are racists just like the “good folks” at Kuruc. Maybe you think Jewish people should be held up to higher standards than non-Jews but I don’t, since it reinforces a difference.

There is no doubt in my mind that it is in the Kuruc type scums’ best interest to fan the flames of hate, divisiveness and racism which is all the more reason for all decent Magyars to pull together and refuse to be manipulated.

Latefor
Guest

@Rozsi,
“If there are Hungarian Jewish or Hungarian non-Jewish people who see themselves as ” us vs. them” , that is unfortunate. If what you say is correct and Hungarians who are Jewish made the comments you are referring to, then they are racists just like the “good folks” at Kuruc. ”

Over the years, there were times on this blog, when I almost begged the Hungarian Jewish leaders back in Hungary to stop these commenters in the best interest of those Hungarian Jews, who call themselves Hungarian (and that’s the majority) and want to stay in Hungary.
Unfortunately, the division of “us vs them” is becoming more and more prominent. This pains me immensely.
I just hope and pray that common sense will prevail. Things can’t get any worse than this. (just read the comments here)

webber
Guest

Latefor:
“when I almost begged the Hungarian Jewish leaders back in Hungary to stop these commenters…”
When did you do that? Which Hungarian Jewish leaders back in Hungary are you speaking of?
I’ve seen you make comments here – you surely don’t mean those comments??
There are no Hungarian Jewish leaders on this blog, fyi.
And why do you think ANY leader can stop (stupid) people from saying whatever they like, no matter how hateful?

And have you “begged” Hungarian leaders in Hungary to stop the hate pouring out on Kuruc.info?

Latefor
Guest

@Webber – “And have you “begged” Hungarian leaders in Hungary to stop the hate pouring out on Kuruc.info?”

No, I haven’t. The Jewish Organizations are very vell represented in the media to fight against anti-Semitism. They don’t need me to fight it. I’m commenting in my capacity as a Hungarian born Australian, who finds it offensive to see how the country of my birth is being degraded and destroyed by vindictive Hungarian haters, who take pride in calling the Hungarian people “genetically inferior morons’ etc. etc.

Latefor
Guest

@webber
Your question:
“And have you “begged” Hungarian leaders in Hungary to stop the hate pouring out on Kuruc.info?”

Your answer:
“And why do you think ANY leader can stop (stupid) people from saying whatever they like, no matter how hateful?”

webber
Guest

My comment: I doubt you’ve “begged” a single Jewish leader.

You didn’t respond to my questions on that, did you?

Latefor
Guest

@Webber – I will respond. Just give me some time to find my posts. I’ll get back to you asap.

webber
Guest

You mean posts here????
There are no “Jewish leaders” here.
If you mean posts to individuals who said nasty things here, fine. But they aren’t “Jewish leaders.”

webber
Guest

pls. don’t bother to re-post what you’ve already written in the past here. I’ve seen it.

So, do you just mean what you’ve posted here?

webber
Guest
Latefor – You say you “begged” Jewish leaders to “stop” some Hungarian Jews from making derogatory comments about Hungarians. So, you expect them to take care of hatred in (what you see as) their own group. Fair enough. But you also say you won’t speak out against anti-Semitism among Hungarians, even though you feel it is your own group. Seems inconsistent. You expect them to police their own group, but aren’t willing to speak out against hatred emanating from your own group. Where is your sense of responsibility? Your comment that “Jewish Organizations” do a good enough job denouncing anti-Semitism among some Hungarians, and THEREFORE you don’t feel a need to do so yourself isn’t convincing because, as you know very well, Hungarians and Hungarian organizations do a very thorough job denouncing anti-Hungarian statements (More power to them!) As to Rozsa, above, she has made it clear that (apparently unlike you) she considers Jewish Hungarians to be Hungarians, and that anti-Semitism against them is anti-Hungarian, just as anti-Hungarian hate speech hurts Hungarian Jews, too. She is consistent, and humane. She denounces both , openly, and feels responsibility to defend all members of her community of Hungarians, Jews, Christians, Hare Krishna,… Read more »
Guest

Some quotes from Latefor for you to decide if any illumination or erudition is brought to Eva’s blog.

“Ok. F@#k it. I don’t care anymore. ”

“Every morning I read the Hungarian Spectrum, the kuruc-info etc.”

“…asked you specifically to stop playing with your you -know- what, as it can cause serious blindness”

“haHve you ever been in bed with a flea?”

“and why don’t you stop playing with your thingilingi?There is a huge possibility that doing it long enough, it may cause you blindness.”

“Always the stronger dog f<**s!"

"…maybe it’s time for some western dogs to take a rest from the humping or a nice German Shepherd could bite of his thingilingi."

"Whilst the Oh So Birghts are busy with “creative destruction” the “not so brights” -like myself- are studying the Bible. There is not much we can do. For now, that is."

"..systematic sh#t stirring."

These are just a few examples – I was beginning to lose the will to live having to read this drivel.

Guest

I think this is an Australian claiming to be a Hungarian, living in Australia and completely out of touch. I’d prefer this poster to stick with kuruc.info.

Latefor
Guest
Charlie, How about this one? “I’m perfectly aware of you cunning tactics, believe it or not, I’ll not lose sleep over it. All you are trying to do with your pathetic skills is to humiliate me because I don’t share your spiteful views about the Hungarian people and I don’t agree with every crap you happen to dish out almost daily. You simply want to drive me out of the so-called public domain. Some of you actually taken on the “attack dog” role. Can’t you see it by now that I will NOT be dissuaded from commenting? What an evil life you must be living! I just imagine you: getting up in a morning, starting your day with sharpening your knives and lighting your pathetic fire. (I’m holding my cross as I’m writing this post.) All you do is: provoke, attack, abuse and destroy the credibility of those who don’t share your twisted views. Why don’t you just let go and try to enjoy your miserable lives? How about taking the night off and go to see “The Tragedy of Men” at the National Theatre? You’d be better off playing with you thingilingi during the play instead of engaging in… Read more »
webber
Guest

Latefor – move to Hungary, and then comment after you’ve experienced it for yourself (as Charlie has).
Until then, please zip it up. Your outrage is ridiculous.

Member

What hate? Remind me.

Rozsi
Guest

I did 🙂 It was a quote from a poster last summer. I did not mean to imply that Eva agreed with it – of course she would not

Member
I am so pleased that Hungarian Spectrum finally made its way to Kurucinfo! I was suspicious for a while! 😉 Not even a bad mention until now about HS, ever? Imagine reading something in that garbage like “HS is the best English language publication about Hungary”. It would be an insult. Being attacked by that “crowd” proves to the world how small minded they are, how dumb they are. I would be curious, how would they know that comments “filtered” at all? I assume they tried to spread their filth on this site before , and because the hate or the language they use with their fans, and family is not appreciated on this site their comments were removed. Obviously talking with such ah ate and first sits them well, so they never see the problem. My favourite part is how their kind allways try to prove how their beloved flavour of the month (Mindszenthy at this time) was not an anti-semite while themselves spitting out anti-semitic comments. Hey Kurucinfo fans, this is why you love those people, because they are anti-semite, do not forget it! If they would of loved all thei fellow human beings, Kurucinfo wold not worship… Read more »
Zsolt
Guest

I remember I was sitting in a pub at the Liszt Ferenc square;
Chatting with a friend of mine and suddenly from the table next to us some true Hungarian told to his friend we are liberal Jewish…

So Eva, this is all right, in Hungary, in connection with Hungary just get used to it, unfortunately it is already normal.

Latefor
Guest

@Zsolt
How could they tell? We’re you performing a scene from BORAT?

Guest

Thank you Éva for focusing on Kuruc.

I have never read the blog and do not intend to as I don’t want to be tainted by such filth.

The most shocking aspect is not the rubbish they print, but the attitude of Orbán and Fidesz. You rightly say, Éva that it is in their interest to turn a blind eye. What about EU norms of clamping down on hate speech?

Can this not be dealt with in EU courts, since Hungary, once again, refuses to abide by even the most basic democratic principles, which makes a distinction between freedom of speech and hate talk, through legislation.

If anyone organises an anti-Kuruc protest, count me in on it.
If it is brought to the attention of the public in a more prominent way, then the government will be forced to act, and if they do not, then it goes to the EU court of human rights.

polgári
Guest

Kuruc.info the ostensibly enigmatic site that cannot be shut down, cannot be reached, with no known journalists is almost certainly being surveilled by the Hungarian services. My hunch is that many in the ‘editorial room’ are informants or professionals Ministry of Interior people. So my guess is that it’s not kuruc.info’s journalists who discovered hungarianspectrum but the Fidesz-leaning secret services and the Russian services financing Jobbik. Jobbik is a chimera: it’s both a competitor to Fidesz but also something that is being controlled (to a certain degree) by Fidesz and the state security loyal to Fidesz. The style of the article is strange. It is however characteristic of the kuruc.info style, yet it is strange. But it is a distinct, unnatural style, something that can easily be emulated, taught.

Member

I always deep down thought that Jobbik is actually a “faux” opposition. If you follow the politics closely, Jobbik introduces an idea, later Fidesz legislates it. They keep Jobbik at a distance to ensure they don’t get the “antisemitic” label or the “anti-Roma” label, and Jobbik keeps up the facade by opposing Fidesz on some things but overall support the majority of what Fidesz does. They leave that dirty work up to Jobbik, but they are very much the same in many ways.

Postás Józsi
Guest

I agree. But I also agree with polgaro. Jobbik is both a competition and a puppet controlled (originally established) by Fidesz so that Fidesz could be the “centrist mainstream conservative party”. It’s a positional thing fundamentally, Fidesz had to create something which was right of it. But the elite of the two parties are connected, they work together hand in hand policy-wise and especially at lower levels there’s a lot of mutual respect (well, some jobbikniks dislike the corruption, but otherwise like and envy their counterparties at Fidesz).

There is no discernible difference policy or ideology-wise between the two parties. The difference is only for show, mostly for superficial, clueless Western politicians (“see, Jobbik is an extreme right wing party, they are the real danger, we are not”) who believe every stupid spin because ultimately they don’t give a shit about Hungary.

Guest

Eva, in a way it is an honour to be considered as an object of hate by kuruc, so congratulations!

And latefor has shown again that she is a psychopath like the kuruc haters – she should be forced to live in a Hungarian village for a month or so, maybe as a közmunkás trying to live on 60 000 HUF, then she would realise (maybe …) what’s going on here.

Guest

Ami a magyar fejekben általában gőzölög, az annak rendje módja szerint szépen lecsapódik a kurucinfóban.

(That which is generally roiling around in Hungarian heads, is then nicely precipitated as a matter of course onto the pages of kurucinfo).

It is obvious that Kurucinfo is covertly supported by the National Security apparatus of Hungary, so as to enable giving voice to the profound and virulent antisemitism of the vast majority of Hungarians that is of course shared not only by Jobbik support base, but by the vast majority of Fidesz and even MSZP support base too, an emotional and intellectual stance that however for obvious reasons parliamentary parties are not in a position (as yet) to openly adopt as public policy.

Nothing more need be said, I think.

Latefor
Guest

Is that so? As far as I know, it was the present Hungarian government who financed the Oscar winner movie, “The son of Soul”. It was supposed to educate and combat anti-Semitism. Am I misinformed?

webber
Guest

That is so. That the Hungarian govt. financed Son of Saul does not negate the fact that some parts of it, in the secret services, are protecting Jobbik people (who are apparently supported by Moscow, as is Orban, btw).

Obsever
Guest

While the focus is on anti-Semitism, we have rather a more weighty mixture of racism and misanthropy. Witness the widespread negative Hungarian attitude not only toward gypsies and colored people, but toward all neighboring peoples, incl. the Austrians (labanc); as well as the actual heartless treatment of fellow Hungarians: from Transylvanian Hungarians to employees and colleagues, down to an opponent in a debate.
I have lived in a lot of places on several continents with my eyes widely open and I find the Hungarian mentality somewhere at the bottom of the heap.
What can one expect form a society where up to WWII the ruling class (mostly gentry) used to say with derision that the money business, the trade and even industry was for the Jews. Not surprisingly almost all of the existing industry and banks were found by Jewish and some German Hungarians.
More surprising is that out of 13 Nobel prize winners 12 are Jewish Hungarians. Great over representation is observed in the arts and culture. Suma sumarum, without these contributions Hungary would have been at the level of, say, Albania.

de@y
Guest

You are wrong.
The Hungarian universities were excellent.
Many Hungarians were very smart scientists.
At the top level there was no difference between the scientists of different religions.
The only difference was that the Jewish refugees could accomplish a lot more in the West, America and Israel.
The Hungarians excelled at home, just lacked the infrastructure to get a Nobel Price.

Guest

Even before WW1 Austria/Hungary was (in)famous for its antisemitism. As a mathematician I can tell you that all Jewish mathematicians in Hungary had problems – often they couldn’t get jobs at the universities, so many left the country.
We have discussed this here (and on politics.hu) already! Just search for people like Erdős, Polya, Fejér or Turán …
There are some heartbraking stories there.

OKSI
Guest

You are wrong wolfi, unlike in other Western European countries, Austria-Hungary had many Jewish generals in the A-H army, Kingdom of Hungary had at least 6 ministers of JEwish origin, such a career for Jewish people was unimaginable in pre ww1 continental Europe.

webber
Guest

And the Monarchy was, also, infamous for its antisemitism.
The Habsburgs themselves were notably free from such prejudices. Their subjects were not.

Guest

Pretty much like France actually. For – contrary to Oksi’s beliefs – the French Army pre-WWI counted several Jewish Generals (starting with Sée as soon as 1871), and nurtured a regular stream of superior officers, mostly École Polytechnique alumni. Also, the early 3rd Republic appointed numerous Jews in high-ranking political positions (though Crémieux was Justice Minister as soon as 1848) : Prefects, cabinet members, high magistrates. Not to mention a long list of elected MPs…

But the thing is, as patriotic as they were (and a majority being Alsatian Jews, they certainly were ultra-patriots), they had to face both a popular and an elite, political anti-semitism. Think ‘Affaire Dreyfus’.

Guest

@de@y
Today 3:03 pm

–“The Hungarian universities were excellent.”–

You must either be joking or you haven’t got a clue. Some few faculties and some individual departments are indeed tops, but the rest ain’t worth tuppence.

–“The only difference was that the Jewish refugees could accomplish a lot more in the West, America and Israel. The Hungarians excelled at home, just lacked the infrastructure to get a Nobel Price.”–

So according to your logic, the Hungarians who excelled at home must have been pretty unlucky for not having been persecuted Jews who had the good fortune to work in the West and thereby gain Nobel prizes. This gets curiouser and curiouser by the minute.

1956
Guest

Michael, you have to apply some objectivity to our place of birth. Hungarian scientists, engineers, physicians have been excellent all our history. The local and mostly foreign antisemitism destroyed this nice place. Russian and German disinformation has poisoned the minds.
Let us try to liberate all our Hungarian citizens from this and other mental diseases. Try to come up with positive ideas. Let us hope the nation of Ferenc Deak will be loyal once again to his spirit. Thanks.

Observer
Guest

@de@y

Empty statements won’t do. However, you wrote “were” which blurs the issue.

Pls try to find a Hungarian uni in the first 500 world wide.
What have “very smart scientists” achieved recently in Hungary?
How come there is only one non Jewish Nobel winner if there were no differehnces? You seem to “forget”the numerus clauses laws that restricted and later expelled Jewish citizens from universities and institutes and the detail of their eventual slaughter with the help of the Hungarian regimes.

OKSI
Guest

“but toward all neighboring people” ALL European nations have ugly nicknames for their neighbouring countries….so this is not a Hungarian specialities.

“of 13 Nobel prize winners 12 are Jewish Hungarians. ” Only 6 or 7, but most neighbouring countries have no western culture, but orthodox, or freshly born countries .

About the enormous differences between Catholic protestant Western culture and trans-civilizational Eurasian Orthodox culture, economy infrastrucutal legal and societal development you can read here: http://www.educator.uw.hu

The golden age of European literature fine-arts architecture music , sculpture was the 19th century, in Hungary too. JEws were so called “late comers” in the arts, so they mostly created their works only in the silver age of European arts, so they can’t be so iconic in most European countries as the native artists from 19th century.

webber
Guest

Depends on criteria, of course – who is Hungarian? If you limit criteria, 12 of 13 winners are of Jewish ancestry (if you use very broad criteria, you might count 18 winners).
The one exception, who was of non-Jewish background on both sides of his family, is Albert Szent-Györgyi.

And fyi here is a list of some great 19th cent. Jewish Hungarians: Karl Goldmark, Gottlieb Wilhelm Leitner, Joseph Pulitzer, Harry Houdini, Lajos Hevesi, and Moritz Kaposi.

Early in the 19th Century Hungarian Jews could not contribute, because the Jewish emancipation laws were not passed until 1849 (part of Hungary’s glorious 1848 revolution respected by Habsburgs). The emancipation was, in broad terms, ended with the Austrian occupation of Hungary, and full emancipation did not come until 1867.
That is the reason you don’t find Jews contributing to the arts earlier. To suggest that they were in some way “backward” is ridiculous and misleading.

What you say about neighboring peoples is also a bit off (for example: nations of “freshly born countries” had arts and literature well before WWI) but never mind.

OKSI
Guest
Dear Webber, you don’t know the exact bio of the Nobel winners. 6 obel winner is not equal with the 12 scientists. Harry Houdini is not very known in Hungary, he is know only for those people who interested about American culture. Leitner Gottlieb is also simply unknown for Hungarians, he is known perhaps for some German or English archaeologists . Karl Goldmark also unknown in Hungary, because Kálmán Tiahnyi the inventor of electronic cameratube (ICONOSCOPE) and infrared caera, and plasma display is more known in Hungary (K. Tihanyi got the Memory of the World posthumus prize from UNESCO) Moritz Kaposi is simply not known for the Hungarian public opinion. “full emancipation did not come until 1867.” And don’t forget: it was long before any other countries in Western Europe. “To suggest that they were in some way “backward” is ridiculous and misleading” To suggest that Jews were automatically on the same average cultural and itellectual educational level in Europe, is simply mean that you don’t know the History of Jewish people. Just compare the cultural and itellectual educational level situation of Eastern Jews like Russian Jews or Balkan Turkish Jews with the Western Jews from England France Benelux states… Read more »
webber
Guest

OKSI – Have you ever stopped to think why these people aren’t more famous in their homeland, Hungary?
I think we both know the answer.

OKSI
Guest

Because simply you have pointed to some less known people (around half of your list), despite you can choose more known Jewish origin famous people from Hungary, who are known in Hungary. It clearly shows that you have never raised and grew up in Hungary.

webber
Guest

Már nem tudom követni.

webber
Guest

If a Christian Hungarian achieves anything at all outside Hungary, s/he is celebrated.
Hell, if a Christian Hungarian achieves almost nothing outside Hungary, s/he is celebrated – Fa Nándor, the first Hungarian to sail around the world, for example. Never mind that thousands of other people did it, some of them more than a century before he did. He was the first Hungarian, so he’s famous in Hungary.
The first Hungarian to climb Everest is another.

OKSI
Guest
webber
Guest

No, it’s not – Fa Nándor was hugely celebrated in Hungary after he went around the world. I remember it well. I also remember the Everest climb very well.

OKSI
Guest

You are wrong. We Hungarians do not really celebrate sportsmen and women in Hungary, despite we are much much better in sports (olympic gold medal per population ratio) than USA UK, Canada Germany France Italy Spain China Japan etc….

webber
Guest

I KNOW!!! And Hungarians celebrate Fa NÁNDOR too!
But they don’t celebrate Houdini, do they? Why?

Perhaps, perhaps, because he was Jewish? Hmmm?

OKSI
Guest

Because he became famouse in America, and not in Europe…and he was not scholar or scientist. That’s all.

webber
Guest

Almost every Christian Hungarian who does anything at all in America is famous in Hungary.

Legyen már őszinte, kérem.

OKSI
Guest

“Almost every Christian Hungarian who does anything at all in America is famous in Hungary.”

Dear American, it is simply not true.

Average Hungarians concentrate on inventors scientists and scholars, and historic personalities (leaders) and their achievements in history.

We don’t care much about sport (despite we are better in sports than any other big western nations) or we don’t care about circus etc…

webber
Guest

lies, all lies.

webber
Guest

Hungarians certainly DO celebrate their sportsmen and women! (no problem with that,before you misunderstand me)

OKSI
Guest

“Hungarians certainly DO celebrate their sportsmen”

Perhaps only for some weeks during the Olympic games.

OKSI
Guest

Lies? Just because YOU said?

webber
Guest

Simply because it is not true. Hungarians celebrate their Olympic gold medalists, and like to tell others how many there are (as you did).
Hungarians like to celebrate their great sportsmen in general – Puskás, for example.
Hungarians celebrate their water polo team.
Great horses, even (Kincsem).
Not all, Hungarians, of course, but quite a lot of them. Anyone who has been to Hungary can attest to that – sooner or later a Hungarian will start talking about Hungarian sportsmen or women.
Nothing wrong with it, in my view, as I said. It’s just a fact.

OKSI
Guest

And Rodolfo is well known in Hungary.

OKSI
Guest

V. Orban is a prime minister, and he is not equal with the general Hungarian public knowledge and public opinion.

Guest

Complete bullocks. Complete complete bullocks. Absolute complete bullocks.
Balderdash…

OKSI
Guest

charliecharlieh Absolute complete ne’er-do-weel personal attacks.

webber
Guest

OKSI, Suddenly here your English is quite good. How many of you are there?
Did you, or did you not make that website?
And what was your point in sending people to it?
I keep asking those or similar questions, but you never answer.

Observer
Guest

@OKSI

How does recognition in Hungary change the fact of their origin ? Pls, fazón-szezón, you know..

In Hungary I always hear “we have 13 Nobel prize winners” – your count of 6 -7 is news to me.
In another conversation they turn into despised “Jews”, who were severely restricted in Austria-Hungary and Russia (incl. Poland) “so they can’t be so iconic”.
Webber made a good point below: why these people aren’t more famous in their homeland ?

The http://www.educator.uw.hu site is a joke, right? You’re better off watching TV edu channels.
You’ve got some history lessons from other commenters here. Try also the history of Spain 9th – 13th century re. the Sephardic Jews. Then the Netherlands 16-17th century.

(I start to smell brow rat here)

webber
Guest

Observer, all that is missing is a mention of “Galician Jews.”

OKSI
Guest

Can you refute the points of educator.uw.hu with FACTS, or do you simply “don’t like” the content?

webber
Guest

The content is in horrible English. It is also idiotic. “as a behavior and menthal phenomenon which was closer to asian than western menthality.”

Do you really consider that to be a proper source? Did you write it?

OKSI
Guest

Don’t care about horrible English. Concentrate on the proofs which can refute the points.

webber
Guest

Well I care about the horrible English. It’s unreadable, and nearly impossible to understand.
You wrote it, didn’t you? Please get a proofreader.
You are citing yourself as an authority, aren’t you?
Incidentally, WHAT proofs?!! Or rather, proofs of what? It’s a series of illegible statements without any supporting evidence.

OKSI
Guest

” It’s a series of illegible statements ”
It seems you don’t educated in European country. You have such a weird fantastic imaginations about European culture civilization history, like an average American 🙂

webber
Guest

You wrote it, didn’t you?
You actually think citing yourself is a relevant source, aren’t you?

Do you have it in Hungarian? It might make sense in a language you speak better.

Incidentally, what are my “weird fantastic imaginations”? I haven’t made any unsubstantiated claims here, as far as I can see.

OKSI
Guest

Man! Again, be more concrete !

Which of the points are not true in educator.uw.hu ? Name it!

webber
Guest

I can’t understand it, man… It is unreadable! Do you not get that?
WHAT is it you want to say? Can you put it in simple English? Are you trying to say Romanians and Serbs, today, are more primitive than Hungarians? Is that it?

webber
Guest

What are “the points”??? Just don’t see them – sorry. What do you want to say? That Serbs or Romanians today are more primitive than Hungarians? Is that your point? (make it explicit – I don’t want to put words in your mouth here: tell us)

Notice, I’m not the only one who thinks its a joke – the English is that bad! “menthal,” “western things which were not existed in orthodox world,” “Balkanian,” “sepherd.”

It’s like a parody of primitivism. Please, please get a proofreader.

OKSI
Guest

Webber, the simple personal attacks don’t help in a debate. Be more concrete! Which points are not true according to you? Than we can start a real debate.

webber
Guest

I cannot understand what the damned thing wants to say. What is your point? Can you make it? I can’t begin to argue with something I cannot understand because it is in such awful English that it makes no sense.

Guest

Dodgy syntax = dodgy numbers = dodgy integrity.

If you are Hungarian you were taught not to question.

A healthy questioning attitude promotes a healthy critical intelligence.

QED

webber
Guest

Charlie, it’s more than dodgy, it’s unreadable – just look at the site a bit more, if you can stand it.
And once you have, I hope you too will encourage OKSI to correct the English. At the very least he might say whatever it is in decent English (I can’t figure out what it is he means).

Guest

Webber?

Why did you make me?

The site is a mess! -Terrible English – but more importantly ‘subjective’ arguments.

Then to quote wikepedia as a single source is an academic no-no.

As I said – complete bullocks. Complete complete bullocks. Absolute complete bullocks.
Balderdash…

How do you measure ‘less known’ or ‘well known’ if not subjectively?

And it’s not important anyway – unless you are implying that one minority is inferior to another – which seems to be the thrust of the OKSI-argument – then that’s ignorant racism. (Which I think is the underlying problem.)

Then to say Hungarians aren’t interested in sport is …rollocks!

Then to say Hungarians are interested in history!!! Hahahahahaha hahahah HAAAAAAAAA …stop it!

No one could tell me who Andrassy was and why! I must have asked more than 25 Hungarians!!!

The site should be called
confused.hu? or ignorance.hu?

But educator??

Ha ha ha haaaa HAAAAAA – Don…..Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!..stop sTOP!!

Observer
Guest

See, I didn’t want to feed the troll. Then, where do you start with such.”education”? Not only hopeless, but doesn’t offer the chance for a good response.
And I also suspect they are dumb cop / not so dumb one.

Istvan
Guest

It does not surprise me that Eva’s courageous post on Cardinal Mindszenty set off the fascists into a rage. After all isn’t he a saint or at least a soon to be anointed one? As I commented in relation to Eva’s essay, which was actually very balanced in relationship to the Cardinal, I have found it interesting that the Cardinal who is presented to American Hungarian Catholics as both an anti-communist and anti-fascist was so esteemed by former Arrow Cross members who hid here in Chicago and else where in the USA and Canada.

The fact that kuruc.info an openly fascist operation immediately must defend Mindszenty convinces me even more that Zoltán Paksy’s perspective is probably spot on. I am more disturbed than ever that as a child I said prayers for the Cardinal who I thought of back then as the consummate fighter for freedom in Hungary.

Guest

Re: ‘I am more disturbed than ever that as a child I said prayers for the Cardinal who I thought of back then as the consummate fighter for freedom in Hungary’

We all now have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight as we look back upon the past. Those are days of black and whites until they become filtered and made up of grays as we age through and acquire experience and the ways of the world. Indeed it becomes a very complicated place.

Just thinking of the kuruc parents. Great models for the generations to come, eh? Fountains of supposed wisdom spewing their hate. What a wonderful world Magyarorszag looms to become with that responsibility of what is known as ‘parenting’.

bubble
Guest

This is what we talked about. Only 1 out of 10 knows about the MNB foundations. 10% – most of whom wouldn’t vote for Fidesz anyway.

The scandal is way too complicated for people to comprehend. This scandal will blow over soon, another one of those he said she said things. Corruption is part of life, MSZP did it too, SZDSZ as well. So what’s new?

The question is did Fidesz increase or decrease energy prices? Did MSZP increase or decrease energy prices? There you go.

What they can understand however clearly is HUF 150m on Medgyessy’s personal account or his wife’s account. The hapless Megyó caught red-handed. Hmmm.

http://444.hu/2016/04/28/a-fidesznel-orulnek-mert-csak-minden-tizedik-ember-tudja-hogy-mik-azok-az-mnb-alapitvanyok

Guest

Prof Balogh … ‘a disgusting Jewish reptile’

Whoa… Pretty ‘under the belt’ hit! Nothing like presentation and opinion of critical analysis, balanced viewpoints (as in the piece on of Mindszenty) and a quest for getting at some truth as rationales constantly become revised to fit into ‘stories’. Magyarorszag these days looks like a place of fiction now. Reality is hard to pick up and needs to be captured somewhere like in HS.

Amazing how a bit of erudition and thinking gets them into a tizzy. Now I get the idea why forints don’t go to the education of the populace. Better to keep them all dumb and blind so they can docilely accept the continual propagation of that unique Magyar malevolence throughout their society.

Little by little as the vitriol continues to seep down, Magyars may wake up one day to face the reckoning of the sickness inherent in their national soul. If it keeps on even exorcism won’t work as the devils revel in the hell they created in the country. The smoke of multiple hatreds are already strong as they waft through the air.

gdfxx
Guest

I am not sure what to expect from a kurucinfo-type website, when I read the following this morning in The Washington Post:

Livingstone [former mayor of London], who sits on Labour’s National Executive Council, said in a radio interview that he had never heard any anti-Semitic views expressed by Labour members during several decades in the party. He also said criticism of Israel wasn’t anti-Semitism, claiming Adolf Hitler had supported Zionism “before he went mad and ended up killing 6 million Jews.”

Guest

Here’s more on Livingstone – I can’t tell whether he’s being misrepresented or has really gone crazy …
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/28/ken-livingstone-suspended-from-labour-after-hitler-remarks

Bowen
Guest

@Wolfi. Livingstone made a clumsy series of remarks about not condoning Israeli policy, and claiming that this is not in itself anti-semitic. Inadvisably, he mentioned Hitler in all of this. The right-wing and establishment press are now jumping on Livingstone (who is a proper, old-school leftist, and Corbyn supporter), in mock outrage.

Meanwhile, Boris Johnson (current Mayor of London, old school friend of Cameron, and staunch Euro-sceptic) made a dog-whistling remark about Barack Obama last week, referring to his ‘part-Nigerian’ background as the reason why British people shouldn’t trust him. And of course, despite this racist, far-right-baiting comment, nothing happened to him.

Bowen
Guest

I meant ‘part-Kenyan’. By the way Boris Johnson has previous history on this, once remarking that black people have lower IQs. But, you know, he’s got friends in high places, the press on his side, etc. He’s firmly part of the establishment. Ken Livingstone, on the other hand, has always been a bit of a political maverick. He used to have the nickname ‘Red Ken’.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/mayor/boris-says-sorry-over-blacks-have-lower-iqs-article-in-the-spectator-6630340.html

Guest

Being a reader of the Guardian I know some of the ugly things Johnson has said and done – here’s a nice summary:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/26/boris-johnson-mendacious-eu-referendum-next-prime-minister
Johnson’s career has seen him embrace the worst of every profession he has entered: the worst of journalistic mendacity, the worst of celebrity entitlement, and the worst of political ambition without political purpose.
He even looks a bit like Donald T …

PS and OT:
Bowen, on the sideline you appear as “Obsever” – strange …

gdfxx
Guest

If someone from the left makes a racist remark, he is “clumsy”. If someone from the right makes a racist remark, his remark is “far-right-baiting”.

In my book a racist is a racist, regardless of his or her ideological leaning.

webber
Guest

You are right, but until the extreme left murders 6 m. people on racial grounds, perhaps we are right to worry more about such statements from the extreme right.
The extreme left murdered millions of people, of course – look at N. Korea now – but out of different reasoning.

AnAn
Guest

I find it hard to believe that kurucinfo just now discovered Hungarian Spectrum. It seems like that for some reason they decided to launch an attack now…maybe the Mindszenty article hit a nerve, or maybe there is more to the story. Who knows. I do hope Eva somehow will be spared of the nasty hate mail and harassment the fans of the site are famous for.

Member

Eva should take every attack from these ethically and morally bankrupt individuals as a compliment.

spectator
Guest

“I find it hard to believe that kurucinfo just now discovered Hungarian Spectrum.
It’s in English, you see.
Obviously took some time to get around and sort out all these fancy words 🙂

Jeb Kovacs
Guest

Giordano

I really try to be very, very careful and objective in selecting my words and thoughts. Why is it, an average non-Jewish Hungarian may ask, that almost all Hungarians writing articles in the foreign press or giving their name to be used for quotations are of Jewish origin? Why is it that almost all of them are so hateful, and exaggerate? Hungary is not a dictatorship. Kazakhstan or Uzbegistan is. Hungary is a democracy with lots of faults. But it is a democracy. And then comes Paul Lendvai, Karl Pfeifer, Agnes Heller, George Konrad, Ivan Fischer, and all the rest, and they say that Hungarians are racists, and all the known crap, beginning from 1989. If an innocent lamb is spat upon, kicked, and abused for a quarter of a century, hearing that he/she is black, ugly, aggressive, after a while the lamb becomes ugly, etc…

Guest

“Hungary is a democracy with lots of faults. But it is a democracy.”

Fiddlesticks!

Postás Józsi
Guest

Jeb, just a small correction: Hungary is not a democracy, it is an electoral autocracy. I don’t read or care about Heller or Konrád, but I can tell you from experience that Hungary is not a democracy.

You apparently have no idea how life is in Hungary.

Like how people have to deal with Fidesznik bigwigs who visit you and kindly ask you to sell them your company for which they of course won’t pay but promise to make you a winner of an EU subsidy project from which you can steal as much as you want or when the prosecutors think it’s best not to pursue a case because….

I think you would be surprised.

Member

It is possible that with the record of Hungary and many Hungarians the jewish population is afraid. If you check in the records there were not to much objections from Hungarians when the first Anti-Jewish Act of twentieth century Europe was passed in Hungary in 1920. Maybe if they would of spoken up, history would of be different. Now, they are screaming for help. Lets not forget about he promises of Orban for example about consulting about various issues (monuments) that never took place. The Hungarian government’s current record is not so great.

Observer
Guest

@Jeb

I don’t quite understand:

Why do you say “the known crap, beginning from 1989..”
I know some organizations which preach that this crap and more started from around the year 0 or before, and continued to WWI, where the Jews defeated the Central Powers (according to Hitler & co) and then all the way till now, this makes it 2000 years not 25.

Why “innocent lamb” when we have Archangel Gabrial himself, in bronze, who was not only “spat upon, kicked, and abused” but suffered much worse (see monument on Szabadsag Sq).

On the last point I almost agree with you – this thing, not a lamb, but .. whatever, is brown, “ugly, aggressive” and corrupt to the bone.

I am also not sure where to place you: with the ignorant, the dupes or with the fascists.

PS And I am neither a Jew nor a Hungarian.

spectator
Guest

@Jeb
”…an average non-Jewish Hungarian…”

And just how are you supposed to experience the effects of antisemitism, being of a non-semitic origin?
Just consider that hearing certain expressions might have quite a different effect on someone Jewish compared to a non-Jewish, don’t you think?
Or what you may take as a ‘mild’ joke can be a serious insult to the other one?

This easily can be a reason why a reaction seems exaggerated to you, since you can’t really feel the seriousness of the matter at all — as I gather.

” Why is it,……that almost all Hungarians writing articles in the foreign press or giving their name to be used for quotations are of Jewish origin?”

Why? Because they can and because they dare to. And I’m really thankful that they doing it!
Otherwise none of the above mentioned “anti Hungarian”, “only” anti racist, anti Nazi, anti Bolshevik, anti stupid, etc. The problem here mostly with the statistics, you see. Unfortunately in recent years the Hungarians clearly over-represented in these categories, so it more and more covering the population.

After all, “Hungary performs better”— even in hating another fellow human being.

Guest
@Jeb Kovacs April 28, 2016 3:03 pm I too shall try to be really very, very careful and objective in selecting my words and thoughts. –“Why is it, an average non-Jewish Hungarian may ask, that almost all Hungarians writing articles in the foreign press or giving their name to be used for quotations are of Jewish origin? “– Maybe because they are made to feel so much at ease in a profoundly illiberal and virulently antisemitic county that would rather not have them as its citizens. –“Why is it that almost all of them are so hateful, and exaggerate?”– Well, that is no doubt because for some unknown reason those writers of articles in the foreign press just fail to appreciate that Hungarians simply love and adore their compatriots of Jewish origin. –“Why is it that almost all of them are so hateful, and exaggerate?”– I am delighted to hear that it is only “almost all” and not “all.” And the reason for all that unreasonable orneriness and malevolence on the part of these dirty rotten Jews (who unfortunately happen to be Hungarian citizens) is that they fail to appreciate that what Hungarians say about Jews is no more than… Read more »
Guest

More seriously:

–“Why is it, an average non-Jewish Hungarian may ask, that almost all Hungarians writing articles in the foreign press or giving their name to be used for quotations are of Jewish origin? Why is it that almost all of them are so hateful, and exaggerate? “–

Of Jewish origin they might be, but the reason they place those articles in the foreign press is because they are principled people of liberal democratic persuasion who find it difficult to stomach the corrupt illiberal ‘democracy’ prevailing in Hungary today, and not succeeding in their political endeavors within Hungary, they try instead to bring foreign pressures to bear so as to change the illiberal Hungarian ways.

On the other hand, the dominant Christian Nationalists [Fidesz] and National Socialists (nazis) [Jobbik] – who have exceedingly few Hungarians of Jewish origin in their support base – enthusiastically embrace illiberal democracy, thus their people have no reason to volunteer articles in the foreign press dumping on an illiberal Hungary, though they are of course free to place articles with the foreign press in response to those of their liberal democrat compatriots (whether of Jewish or non-Jewish origins).

1956
Guest

Jeb Kovacs, have you tried to spread liberal democratic ideas in the mind of your friends, and relatives? Can you say that the Hellers, Pfeifers etc. are wrong? They detected the lies. Can you detect the lies of this regime? Can you be critical of the chauvinist, nationalist demagogues of the FIDESZ/Jobbik? Thanks.

Guest

A few minutes ago there was no connection to HS – I just got a message like “Error in establishing Database Connection”.
Was this just a glitch somewhere or a sign of things to come?

PS: I’m in Hungary right now.

And the good news is:
For every new Fidesz troll that appears here there’s somebody new who tells them what’s really going on – thank you, Borbé and Postas Józsi!

Member

Hi Wolfi, I am not new to HS, just wouldn’t let me sign in with my facebook account like I used to. Just so you know, I am Liz Aucoin. But it made me sign in with a username instead now.

Member

Did you allow in the little pop-up window to connect your username with HS?

Member

Not sure what you mean, I don’t recall a pop up window. Anyway, I’m in now.

Member

This is everybody else according to Kurucinfo by the way. LOL
comment image

Zsuzsa
Guest

kuruc.info is a hate site. it cannot be described any other way except with deep revulsion that there are actually people in this world who spend their time hating others THIS much. on the one hand, it is not worthy to talk about. on the other hand, it shows a sad state of affairs. does this remind anybody what goes on in America with some of the know nothing party primaries? indeed the lunatic fringe must be talked about lest it becomes mainstream — or has it become mainstream already?

webber
Guest

Zsuzsa – when you see people in black uniforms carrying barely concealed swastikas (such as in the picture above) at the know nothing party primaries in America, let me know and I’ll worry.
Until then, I think it’s worth saying that there is no comparison between Trump’s followers and kuruc info people. I don’t like Trump much, but there is no way that any sane person could call him a neo-Nazi.

1956
Guest

Or even more precisely, a disinformation site!

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