Orbán’s anti-refugee propaganda is a roaring success

I think it is time to report on the incredible hate campaign under way in Hungary in preparation for the October 2 referendum on the nonsensical question: “Do you want the European Union, without the consent of Parliament, to order the compulsory settlement of non-Hungarian citizens in Hungary?” The outcome of this referendum is of the utmost importance to Viktor Orbán even though it has no tangible consequences. The government is sparing neither money nor energy to ensure that the referendum is valid (that is, that more than 50% of the eligible voters participate) and that the vote is overwhelmingly in favor of the government’s position on the refugee issue.

The official campaign begins on Sunday, August 13, but the government, as usual, has paid no attention to the campaign laws of the country. For months it has been conducting a kind of “informatory intelligence drive” to prepare voters on the subject of the referendum. Of course, this is just a fancy name for illegal campaigning. For months now the government has paid for newspaper ads as well as for TV and radio spots. A month ago several huge billboards appeared in a format similar to the earlier ones that “sent a message to Brussels.”

All “messages,” this time to the Hungarian voters, start with “Did you know?” and end with “Referendum, October 2, 2016.” Let’s take them one by one and fact-check them. (1) “Did you know that since the beginning of the immigration crisis more than 300 people died as a result of terror attacks in Europe?” (2) “Did you know that Brussels wants to settle a whole city’s worth of illegal immigrants in Hungary?” (3) “Did you know that since the beginning of the immigration crisis the harassment of women has risen sharply in Europe?” (4) “Did you know that the Parisian terror attacks were committed by immigrants?” (5) “Did you know that just from Libya close to one million immigrants want to come to Europe?” (6) “Did you know that last year one and a half million immigrants arrived in Europe?”

One of the six billboards carrying anti-refugee messages

One of the six billboards carrying anti-refugee messages

As is obvious, government propaganda used a number of tricks to scare the population. For example, how big is a city? Hungary has a very long list of settlements designated as cities. Balatonföldvár with a population of 2,064 is a city, and so is Budapest with 1.75 million. I couldn’t find any with a population as small as 1,300, the number of refugees Hungary would have to take in.

One can also find outright lies among these assertions. For example, between November 2015 and July 14, 2016 there were 259 terror victims in Europe, not more than 300. I suspect that the government propagandists included in their number the victims of the terrorist attacks in Turkey. As for how many Libyans want to come to Europe in the future, this is mere speculation.

And a takeoff "Did you know that they consider you 100% stupid?

And a takeoff:  “Did you know that they consider you 100% stupid?”

The accuracy of these slogans, however, is irrelevant as far as their effectiveness is concerned. A year and a half has gone by since Viktor Orbán began a concerted hate campaign against “the migrants.” His efforts have been spectacularly successful. In Hungary 76% of the respondents now link refugees with terrorism. Moreover, 82% of Hungarians surveyed are convinced that refugees will be a burden on the social system. Viktor Orbán can be proud of his propaganda.

It has never been in doubt that those who vote in the referendum will overwhelmingly support the government position. The only question is whether the referendum will be valid. It was for this reason that some of those opposing the government and Orbán’s handling of the refugee issue urged a boycott of the referendum. Unfortunately, as usual, there was no cohesion among the democratic parties. Ferenc Gyurcsány’s Demokratikus Koalíció sent a clear message from the beginning. All of its leading politicians spoke with one voice: a boycott is the only reasonable reaction to this totally useless and misleading referendum question. The others were less explicit. MSZP politicians are well known for airing their personal opinions without taking into consideration the party’s official position. Or, often, the official position comes too late and by that time voters have heard three different opinions coming from three different MSZP politicians. Then there is LMP. In her incredible performance at the Fidesz-organized Bálványos Summer Free University, Bernadett Szél supported Fidesz’s call for a ‘no’ vote. By now, the party has settled for the position that “they have no opinion on the subject.” Their followers can vote (or not vote) their conscience.

At the beginning of August Závecz Research conducted a telephone survey to find out whether people intended to vote in the referendum. The enthusiasm is tremendous. At the moment the majority of population (54%) plan to vote. If they actually follow through, the referendum will be both valid and, from the government’s viewpoint, stunningly successful. Only 19% of the population claim they will stay at home. Another 23% haven’t decided yet. Of those who intend to vote, 85-90% will vote “no.”

Perhaps the most interesting part of the survey is a table that links voter intentions  to party preference, especially those who decided to boycott the referendum. It looks as if only DK’s message was effective in that respect. Almost 70% of its supporters got the message and will boycott the referendum; another 20% are still undecided. MSZP with its mixed messages only managed to confuse its followers: 30% will boycott, 37% are still undecided, 17% will go but don’t how they will vote, and 11% will vote and will vote “no.” One commentator went so far as to state that “Orbán can win this referendum only with MSZP votes because there are not four million Fidesz and Jobbik voters.” But “other parties,” where LMP most likely figures large, may also contribute. Only 23% will boycott, 27% will support the government’s position, and 36% haven’t yet decided whether they will go to the polls.

Závecz Research’s survey most likely underestimates the size of the number of voters on October 2 because, for obvious reasons, they couldn’t conduct a poll among ethnic Hungarians living in the neighboring countries, among whom fierce government campaigning is taking place at present. Perhaps 100,000 ethnic Hungarians will vote on October 2 in addition to the bona fide inhabitants of the country. In 2014, 128,378 of them voted in the national election and they overwhelmingly (85.49%) supported Fidesz. The government has made it extremely easy for them to vote in Hungarian elections and referendums. Without much oversight they can vote by mail while Hungarians born in Hungary but currently working somewhere in Europe, the Americas, or Australia can vote only at Hungarian embassies or consulates, often very far from their home. The Orbán government is adamant on the subject. It even used its overwhelming majority in the Constitutional Court to support the indefensible: to maintain a distinction between Hungarians depending on their domicile. They must know what they are doing.

August 9, 2016
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petofi
Guest

“Tudta?”

The most embecilic advertising I’ve ever seen. A complete insult to the intelligence; and a mannerless, totally insulting attack (by its manner) on the EU.

One cannot but be ashamed to be represented by such inanity before Europe and the whole world.

Before I was red-hot angry at Hungary and numbskull Hungaricoes, but now I’m mortally ashamed to have been born a Hungarian…

Guest

Fidesz would appear to have mastered the best in advertising techniques. If the goal is to bring the population to a ‘close’ they appear to have succeeded very well on the referendum vote. The constant blaring volume and verbal barrage of ‘propaganda’ against refugees has worked. This will only sharpen future political advertising and marketing techniques towards forming and fashioning public opinion that is in line with the ruling groups.

Orban et al certainly know the big buttons to push when it comes to the electorate. It is almost as if we are witnessing life which existed in a few countries during the early part of the political 20th. As usual the techniques are a combination of harangue, subtlety of persuasion and a call to action with regard to uphold the homeland in its perceived trials. For all that is happening, Pavlovian behavior looks to be alive and well in the country. The irony is stunning as we travel on to a 21st careening to who knows where.

Koen
Guest

This is not a campaign but a well designed propaganda like we have seen before in questionable regimes! Each of the statements sounds plausible but none of them is really correct! Misleading messages through oversimplification is a tool frequently used by populist rulers! The cost of the campaign must be very high: next to hundreds of bill boards there are many flashes with the “tudta?” statements during the extremely popular coverage of the Olympics! I wonder who has the critical reflex to put the overly complex issue in the right perpective! Frightening

Member

I have always held the opinion that the results of any election, referendum, vote that is built on lies, and/or misleading advertising should be destroyed and those who are responsible should be held accountable.
This referendum has absolutely no bearing on the EU, and the government loaded the outcome by full BS of “facts” and opinion pieces. I believe that the cost of this circus should be paid by Orban and his gang of thieves.

On the other hand, let’s hold a referendum with the following question:
Do you believe that each Hungarian citizen residing in Hungary should receive a monthly subsidy of 3,000 euros from the EU for the next 5 years? YES or NO
I can only guess how many people would turn out of that vote, and I can predict the results with 100% accuracy. I can also tell what the EU would do with the results. Let’s send a message to Brussels!

The majority of the
Guest

So , do you try to attack the plebiscites/referendums , the most important institution of a democracy?

“citizen residing in Hungary should receive a monthly subsidy of 3,000 euros from the EU ”
Stupidity, there are no country in the world where the economic policy taxes etc.. are allowed to be part of a plebiscite/referendum.

webber
Guest

Wrong. Several American states regularly have plebiscites on taxes. For example, California and Oregon.
In these states (Oregon partic.)_, voters often approve higher taxes for specific local goals, such as school funding.

Observer
Guest

And in Switzerland, of course.
Even in Hungary there can be referendums on taxes/fees, but only if it suits Fidesz, e. g. re the healthcare visit fee.

Mihal
Guest

Even though the number of people in Hungary who knows that the quota is actually about around 1300 refugees is less than 0,01% its a huge embarrassment that there are hardly any Hungarians to find who think that this is not OK. They don’t think it’s strange at all that a government is spending so much money on billboards and advertisements. They don’t think it’s strange either that a government comes with statements of the level that you hear in bars between half-drunken locals.
That this is happening in Europe at the moment and that the people are actually falling for it is a disgrace. Shame on the Hungarians for being that stupid! I can image the rest of Europe will happily kick them out of the EU and Schengen and if the county goes under? Gates closed and no support!

petofi
Guest

“…to kick them out…”–That is the point; more precisely, to attune
the ‘kocsma’ crowd to the idea of leaving the Eu.

The majority of the
Guest

Wrong, this is not about the quota of 1300 refuges, but it is about the tendency of forced immigration, ordered by EU bureaucrats, that buerocrats were not even elected by the given country.

Observer
Guest

The majority of the fideszniks are lying toads, because these are simple facts to deny.
Our great leader voted for the proposed decisions or failed to convince the others otherwise.
To use the Fidesz argument, the other EU countries can do anything they want because they have 2/3-rds, actually they have much more: 96/100-ds.

Re half drunks: this was the purpose of the tax free pálinka (another of Orban’s illegal stunts).

Guest

A bit OT:

That’s my argument when someone claims: O wanted Hungarians to stay healthy – that’s why he limited the sale of cigarettes!

And I tell them:
And why did he allow them to distill 50 liters of alcohol tax free per person?
At 40% that corresponds to almost two bottles a week …

The majority of the
Guest

Angela of Germany invited these migrants, so she must accept them.

Member

This referendum drives on the success of the Greek Government referendum a couple of years ago:
* It is Government sponsored
* The Government favours the NO-alternative
* The question asked has no real bearing on reality, then it is more a question for getting support for a Government-policy, than a real issue. The outcome does not change anything legally.
* In the end the outcome of the Greek referendum did not change anything on the ground, it was just silently ignored, or ridiculed, by the other EU member states. What are the chances that this Fidesz’ referendum will meet another fait?

The best alternative to defeat this referendum is to ABSTAIN to vote. Voting YES would just make it easier for Fidesz to win this referendum and if any of the “opposition” parties proposes voters to vote YES, they will play into Whorban’s trap.

We must use the trap Fidesz’ set up for themselves with their new Constitution, that instead of earlier 25% of the electorate had to vote for one alternative, now 50% of the electorate have to cast a vote, regardless which on which alternative. That is in real numbers a huge difference.

Guest

Yes, Viking! (I Thought you’re on holiday … 😉 )

As I’ve written before my hope too is that at least some people will be angry about this constant repetitive barrage of nonsense and abstain from voting – and maybe that 50% barrier will be missed …

But anyway the whole stupid thing will bw ignored outside Hungary or rather Hungary will be the laughing stock of the EU again – but Fidesz doesn’t care …

Remember Fidesz’ motto re the EU:

We’re only in it for the money!

PS:

The main problem I see is that of course Fidesz will know who abstained from voting – will they/can they use that info on the people?

petofi
Guest

“…can they use that info on the people? ”

The next step by the Fidesz parliamentarians may well be to reward loyal Hungarians by lowering the vat to 15% while raising it for non-loyalists to 30%!

Right in line with the ludicricity of Orban governance…

petofi
Guest

follow-up:
The faithful to get membership cards (to receive the reduced VAT) based on loyal votes in referendums and elections.

Yes, that’s the ticket!

Hajra Magyarok!!

Guest

See my comment below.

Guest

Re: ‘luducricity’

Goes into the vocab book .. Angol side. Igen, there is another ‘language’ akin to a sort of ‘ujbeszeles” afoot in the country. Oh such a discordant siren song.

pappp
Guest
Never underestimate the power of Fidesz propaganda. Orban and Putin know well that propaganda can work magic. The referendum will be a huge thumbs up for the government and it will be interpreted so by average folks and pundits alike. Hungarians will see that the opposition is either non-existent (from the minuscule portion of the yes votes) or that it is currently associated with the “losers”. People are smart and very quickly align with those who seem to be the “winners”, who seem to have “the power”. The opposition will be branded – yet again – as a bunch of huge losers and Fidesz’ popularity will soar again (not that it is very unpopular). Liberals underestimated the power of media and importance of control over it. They have been living in a dreamworld and now they are paying a price for it (not that there are many liberals left). They are going extinct. From the Tárki polls about the referendum I think we can conclude that there still exists that 35-40% disciplined block of Fidesz-voters which has been together since at least 2000 (for 16 years no) who together with the ethnic Hungarian votes are in my view just unbeatable… Read more »
Guest

People are smart and very quickly align with those who seem to be the “winners”, who seem to have “the power”.

That’s a very good joke!

What do people get from aligning with the winners?
More taxes …

Not too much OT:

There’s an interesting article on portfolio.hu on Fidesz planning to put the screws again on the “big bad international retailers” – which of course would mean more profit for CBA and higher prices for the rest …
I shudder to think about this!
http://www.portfolio.hu/en/economy/hungary_cooking_something_up_for_the_retail_sector_and_it_smells_foul.31685.html

Just a recent experience:

because my wife wanted some fesh fruits and vegetables and the market where we usually shop was closed already we went to a smaller shop. While she was selecting fresh fruits I looked at prices in general (food and non food household items) and was horrified to see that they were at least 20% higher, often 30 or 40% than at the Tesco or Interspar!

pappp
Guest

wolfi, you may live in a bubble and are lucky to be a German citizen but most average Hungarians have to survive here.

They have to treat Fidesz and the local Fidesz strongmen as the entities having the power and they must be respected. Powerful people demand to be treated as powerful.

If you could criticize them a bit more lately (after so many corruption scandals) after the referendum people will sure get the message: don’t mess with Fidesz, “the boys” are here to stay.

If these people don’t want to lose their jobs, the jobs of their sisters or cousins, the contract with some municipal entity then they can’t any more mock or question Fidesz.

Average people will again be reminded that if they need a favor in some problems then the first point of contact will be a the relative who is in Fidesz and so on.

People quickly conform to power and since Fidesz’s power will be reiterated by the referendum, people will again conform to Fidesz as opposed to distancing themselves a bit from this corrupt mafia. The message will quickly be received, Fidesz is here to stay, don’t ever count them out.

Guest

Yes, just likeHonecker, Ceaucescu, Mussolini – any other ideas?

Already the pressure is great – I won’t tell you what I hear every day from neighbours and friends, but you might look in the net, say in places like:
http://kepeslajoska.tumblr.com/

And there are many similar ones!

Jean P.
Guest

“People quickly conform to power”

Up to a point.

Observer
Guest

Come to think about it, these shitpants have only to put a X on the ballot paper protected by the poll boot. Heroic, just as they “fought hard” for their democracy in 1989.

Member

TTT Redux

“Pappp” is a TTT, just as I suspected all along. A nice supplement to the Orban’s propaganda campaign is a fleet of pseudo-sympathetic yea-sayers who just keep pounding the message “I agree with you 100% that it’s all wrong and terrible (I’m one of you, you see!), BUT (1) the democratic opposition are a bunch of losers and (2) Orban is unbeatable.”

It’s complete nonsense. The truth is that this unfathomably vile and unscrupulous Orbanian mob-rule will crumble, like all such abominations, sooner or later. Our hope is that it will be sooner. The TTTs are doing their bit for later.

comment image

The majority of the
Guest

Why is orban portrayed as part of the neo- cuman minority of Kunság region on this picture?

Observer
Guest

Would you prefer the closer image of a gypsy horse thief in the pusta?

The majority of the
Guest

Do you hate the gypsies?

Observer
Guest

I hate thieves, bums, fascists and Orban fits all bills.
The GypsyHT is an old Hungarian stereotype, but the felcsuti boy fits even better the “Gypsy crime” one.
Capisi?

Guest

It might become interesting:

Several members of the EU parliament are asking for cuts in the financial contributions to Poland and Hungary because these countries don’t want to accept refugees.

Among them is “die Chefin des Haushaltskontrollausschusses im EU-Parlament”, Inge Grässle (CDU) – and CDU is like Fidesz part of the EPP.

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/streit-ueber-fluechtlinge-eu-politiker-wollen-polen-und-ungarn-bestrafen-a-1106935.html

Maybe someone finds info on this in English.

Member
dos929
Guest
What the Orban regime is doing with its scare-campaign is so disgusting that paper can’t hold the words coming to my mind… The saturation wall-to-wall advertising (?) on billboards, on ALL the TV stations, etc… is just too much to bear. I am also stunned by the silence of the EU about this blatant litany of lies and scare tactics. Don’t the leaders of the EU know when is enough is enough??? Their appeasement policy towards despots like Orban is simply unbelievable. For the ordinary citizens, most of whom are not very well (if at all) educated, such tactics may work for Orban, but all it means that the country’s population is so scared from their own government and the government tactics that they would even sign their own death warrant. Most of Hungary’s citizens lost their soul, lost their independence, and sorry to say, lost their minds too. How can they tolerate such a regime in a 21st century Europe cannot be explained away by any other reasoning? The regime is forcing these advertisements on even “independent” TV stations too, and the viewer simply cannot comprehend how a channel, like ATV, can broadcast as many as 12-20 times a… Read more »
pappp
Guest

ATV is owned by Hit Gyülekezete, an evangelic Christian church which is ardently anti-Islam (and anti-gay too).

People criticize ATV, but it’s a private channel owned by a social conservative church. What do they expect?

The left-wing doesn’t have an MSNBC or even an own ATV – compare that to Fidesz which strategically set up Hír TV at least 15 years ago, but that wasn’t enough for them Echo TV was also set up, not to mention other media. Parties need media, they need to reach voters. It’s politics 101. Why the left-wing has not realized this I cannot tell.

This current situation is in very significant part the fault of the left-wing. It seems to me they just don’t care (neither about principles nor strategy) and so obviously they don’t plan for the long-term; they complain instead of doing something.

Istvan
Guest

You are totally correct about ATV, the fact that it’s really one of the only independent mass media outlets in Hungary indicates the level of hegemony Fidesz has achieved.

Guest

That us why in my estimation with mass media so tightly controlled that if the Internet gets caught in the Fideszian net observers of the Magyar scene will see a grave decline in the influence and spread of the diversity in opinion within the country. That is something that cannot occur as it has perilous consequences for the expression of free speech. If there comes a time for the latter then we will see that Magyarorszag is ‘cooked’. Put a fork in her …..she is done.

I can recall that it was posted on these pages some new description of how the government has changed their approach to interacting with the very social and global medium. Could be just a start with the way events are being played out. The Internet with a noose is an image one doesn’t want to see.

The majority of the
Guest

You have forget, that the chairman of Hit Gyülekezete (Sándor Németh) was member of the left liberal SZDSZ party.

pappp
Guest

More than 20 years ago, when SZDSZ was not socially liberal but was seen primarily as an anti-communist force, when SZDSZ was also popular in Western Hungary (which region has been loyally conservative since it turned out that SZDSZ was liberal). Exactly at the time when Orban and Fidesz were also extreme-liberal. So don’t be obsessed with a long defunct party. Hit Gyülekezete is a socially conservative Christian church and it uses its media accordingly.

Andrew Hammel
Guest
The factual assertions in the ads are largely correct. Half of Istanbul is indeed in Europe, geographically speaking. Sexual assaults committed by recent migrants are a huge topic in Germany, there have been thousands in the past year alone. The figure of 1.5 million is quite realistic, considering that final numbers aren’t in yet. You can find plenty of sources pointing to the existence of a large mass of Africans waiting to cross to Europe from Libya. Some estimates are below a million, some above. In recent days Frontex and other groups have intercepted over 3,000 migrants from Libya *in a single day* in the Mediterranean and brought them to Italy. Studies from Sweden and Germany show that many recent migrants have little education and few job skills, and migrants are hugely *over*represented in prisons and in the social-welfare rolls of both countries. Majorities in Germany now believe Chancellor Merkel’s open-borders policy was a mistake, and 83% of Germans believe dealing with recent migrants is the biggest challenge facing Germany, a huge change from just 1 year ago. I hardly imagine that Hungarians would have been welcoming to migrants regardless of whether these ads existed or not. And they have… Read more »
Guest

@Hammel:
Thanks for proving with your first post here that you’re an idiot or a Russian troll – or probably both!
PS: You know what your name means in German?

Member

For what it’s worth, Hammel is using his real name’.

I don’t know enough to be able to assess his data. Bigots and demagogues are certainly exaggerating the negative evidence (or even fabricating it), but the well-meaning progressives may also be also under-estimating it, partly as a reaction to the willful distortions of the bigots and demagogues, but perhaps partly also out of wishful thinking.

Guest

I think that factual rebuttals would be more helpful than insulting name callings and hysterical accusations.

Observer
Guest

@ambalint

The policies of accepting (genuine) refugees in Europe is a dead end street, even if their numbers are tightly controlled/ restricted.
Imagine civil wars in Bangladesh or Nigeria (with combined 250 million plus population) or rising sea levels or even severe floods there. The refugees will be in the tens of millions. What then?
I am just bringing the question forward.

Guest
Re:’And they have plenty of perfectly valid reasons to be skeptical of German and EU policy on this matter’ It would appear at this point the dialogue if any that is worthwhile of migration has been captured by demagogues rather than the progressives. It truly does appear it is a closed case. However what of targeted rationality in coming to grips with the events? Can we say it has occurred? Controlled propaganda continually fans the flames against absolutely any of it. Apparently all have lost their heads in trying to solve a very difficult problem for the continent. Diatribes certainly won’t do it. Concerted action will. But it seems nobody is taking the time to offer solutions. And one ‘demagogos’ , leader of his people, appears to just have a simple recipe for whipping up hatreds cloaked in Magyar rationales. It does nothing to foster close and harmonious communities. If anything the surge of migration in the past few years coupled with almost instantaneous communication advances shows indelibly the ‘interconnectedness’ of the globe and its peoples today. It begs that attention be paid to make sense of it and work in trying to understand and deal with its great ramifications.… Read more »
Joe Simon
Guest

Yes, the anti-migrants campaign is rather crude.
However, any authentic refugee can enter the country with proper documents if he is willing to register in one of the transit camps.
No one could enter Canada either without going through the proper and lengthy immigration process.

Guest

Stupid propaganda again from our resident Joe Troll!
However, any authentic refugee can enter the country with proper documents if he is willing to register in one of the transit camps.
That’s nonsense! The government is doing everything against that – there are enough reports on this!

The majority of the
Guest

Wolfi, you don’t know the laws of the European Union

Observer
Guest

@Fidesznik Joe

Lying as always, e.g. there are thousands waiting to register, but the orban regime admits 30 migrants/ day at Rószke, and then grants asylum to no one, but a 300-400 per year. All of those leave for other countries as soon as they can.

Ergo the Orban BS about of defending Europe and the Christian whatever is very much like the similar myth about the 16-17 th century, which is used to hide the facts that Tököli and Szapolya fought alongside the Ottomans against Europe.

Guest

Thanks, observer, for taking the time to answer Joe Troll – but it’s no use – the creature will come up with another stupidity soon …

Guest

OT and related to previous essay on sexism

Seems a Magyar female swimmer Katinka Hosszu has won a gold at the Olympics. But there’s some uproar in that her husband is getting all the glory! Uh oh.

Member

She’s won three golds so far (in only four days of competition). And yes NBC did appear to credit her husband for the first win: http://jezebel.com/why-did-nbc-commentators-give-katinka-hosszus-husband-c-1784940772

I wonder if this would even be considered a controversy in Hungary…

Guest

All this idiotic and inhuman propaganda serves only to divert from the real problems in Hungary – which we see every day when we walk our dog through the village:

Around 61% of Hungarians said their homes are in need of renovation, according to a survey conducted by the Central Statistical Office (KSH) last year, up from 44% twelve years earlier, Hungarian news agency MTI reported yesterday.

About 84% of residents said they cannot afford to renovate, while 7% said they are waiting for subsidy money.

Of course one can write about this in a positive way:

“a strong potential for renovation …”
http://bbj.hu/economy/ksh-sees-strong-potential-for-home-renovation_120465

It would be funny if it weren’t so sad – so millions of Hungarians will either spend a lot of money for heating again next winter and what’s even worse:

Many people will sit in their cold rooms because they can’t afford to heat them properly …

My wife’s sister regularly visits her former colleagues (retired teachers) to play cards and she always takes a wam blanket with her in winter …

webber
Guest

Even more sad: For most Hungarians, renovation means painting the kitchen. And they can’t afford the paint.

Guest

In case it wasn’t clear what renovation means – not having some nice paint etc but:
The survey results, published on Tuesday, showed 38% of residents complained about insulation, 32% want to replace doors and windows, 29% want improvements to their roof, and 11% want a heating upgrade.

According to the survey, doors and windows have been replaced in 1.2 million homes, or about 27% of the total in the past ten years, but they are in need of replacement in a further 28% of homes.

Insulation has been added to the walls of about 17% of homes, but almost 30% of homes still need to be reinsulated.
This is all about saving energy – but Fidesz’ idea, on which they spend a lot of money, is making energy cheaper – total idiots!
Obviously they don’t care about the environment – or about Hungarians’ future …

petofi
Guest

Hungaricoes would rather buy a $25,000 car on a swiss loan..

Observer
Guest

The average age of private passenger cars and small vans reached 13.7 years in 2015. While the 2002-2008 trend was down to 10.4 years the 2009-2015 was steadily up.
So much for the ‘three rooms, four wheels..” or whatever nonsense Orban blabbered earlier.

http://www.ksh.hu/docs/hun/xstadat/xstadat_eves/i_ode002.html

Guest

Wolfi, if Hungary is that awful a place, why do you live there?

Guest

I will say this. If what wolfi has noted about life in Magyarorszag is absolutely true then I understand indubitably why Magyars have that ‘nostalgie’ back to the Big K years and in the merry barracks. Have to say to my eyes there was plenty’o’renovation where people were building their new homes. They were pretty nice homes too. Frankly I envied them a little bit. Hey I lived in a little old pre-war apartment. Have to say Janos had me going there with that new face of communism in one of the barracks. But in the end it looks like Magyarorszag couldn’t follow up all that ‘success’. Things have fizzled out pretty bad. ‘Cause robbers run the barrack now. Sadly a damn shame the country has sunk to a dismal depth where that sucking to power has distorted life in the country today and for the foreseeable future. Will it end? I’ll defer to the johnnies on the spot. They’re the only ones who can change it.

Guest
Hungary by itself is not awful, on the contrary – if you have enough money for a car and a nice house, to pay your utility bills, to go shopping at all the big stores, to have a fantastic meal at one of the good (and relatively cheap …) restaurants, to visit one of the famous spas, to enjoy a massage or other wellness programs etc … But if you don’t have all that – it doesn’t really matter where you live! Most people you have to communicate with or who work for you are also friendly – if not, there others willing if you pay them a “good” price, not too much of course … Even before I met my wife I had neighbours and acquaintances which I could trust and also craftsmen – those few who tried to cheat me I discoverd rather quickly and put them on my black list! And since I found my wife of course life is heaven! Btw my wife thinks on similar terms, she told me already that she would prefer to live in Germany if there weren’t some things … She was welcomed so heartily by all my family and friends… Read more »
The majority of the
Guest

At least the shopping centers plazas and malls are more frequent and better/bigger in Hungary than in Germany.

webber
Guest

This is good?

Guest

The last time we went shopping (this morning …) there were more cars with foreign licence plates than Hungarians – and they also were much bigger and newer models .

Anyway do you know who owns those shops like Aldi, Lidl, Drogerie Müller. Deichmann, Freßnapf etc ?

A German tourist probably has a disposable income five times as high as a typical Hungarian – if you don’t count the Hungarian mafiosi aka Fideszniks …

PS:

We shouldn’t spend too much time on our latest troll, even if the creature represents “the majority of Fideszniks”!

Jean P.
Guest

OT
Trump said, “By the way, if she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do folks. Although, the Second Amendment people maybe there is. I don’t know.”

Istvan, what does he mean?

Member

It will be denied and rationalized by his shameless supporters in the Republican Party, but it is transparently obvious that Trump is inciting lynch-mob violence against Hillary Clinton in an epidemic of weaponized misfits and madmen.
http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Killing_of_Jo_Cox

What’s next from the mouth of this pathological personality mediatized by his following of uneducated white trash? A call for Russia to nuke the US?

webber
Guest

Stevan – Not defending Trump, but when I listened to what he actually said (available online), I didn’t hear anything threatening. I suggest you listen, too. It has been spun that way. Maybe some idiots understand it that way. I didn’t.

Anyway, Clinton is cruising to an easy, crushing victory over Trump, after which I hope and pray that the Republican Party gets its act together, and fields fewer candidates for the presidency in the next round. If you have too many candidates, the centrist ones take votes from one another, while the extremist’s camp of (something like) 33% (of the R. Party – not the pop.) will always be enough to win the nomination. If the Republicans don’t make changes, they will be increasingly marginalized. Angry, crazy WASP men are not enough to win an election in the United States – not by a long shot.

Member
I did watch the clip, several times, and not for pleasure. For anyone who has followed Trump’s endless series of clueless gaffes and vengeful vituperations it is dead obvious exactly what he was saying and meaning. “Maybe X, I don’t know…” That’s Trump’s vintage way of making an assertion. The clueless part? No president can undo the 2nd amendment. That’s an Orbanian “they’re going to impose a city-full of immigrant rapists on you” starter, by way of mendacious presupposition” And then the “solution” (the vengeful part): “Maybe X, I don’t know…” — where the only construal of the whole piece of drivel is “If you elect Clinton she (and her supreme court nominees) will undo the 2nd amendment, and there will be nothing anyone can do about…” “Except maybe X, I don’t know…” That’s the “2nd amendment” gunslingers. This was not (even in Trump’s chaotic mind) about rallying “unity” before the election, to prevent Clinton being elected and the supreme court justices being nominated. It was about what to do afterward. Anyone inclined to put a more benign spin on it has not been following (with dismay) the nauseating truth about the profoundly disturbed mind of the despicable creature the… Read more »
Member

“Hillary wants to abolish, essentially, the Second Amendment… if she gets the pick of her judges, nothing you can do, folks. Although the Second Amendment people, maybe there is, I dunno”.

Dixit

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webber
Guest

I just do not hear what you, apparently, hear.
What I hear from Trump is a lot of stupidity, loose, unconsidered blah-blah and ignorance (not necessarily in that order). I think the man is actually as bad as he seems. It’s not a show. A lot of pundits think it’s all planned. I think it’s honest.
I see him as a small-town lout in the only bar in town – spouting his opinions without contradiction for years and years, because he is so wealthy. He hasn’t had to reflect, he hasn’t had to stop to think “is this right?” or “how will this sound?” because he’s not been challenged for so long.
So, he just mouthed off without thinking about how some might understand what he is saying. He knows what he meant. That’s enough for him. If others misunderstand him, that’s their problem…

The man is just too awful to be faking it.

webber
Guest

That said, I also recall Trump’s promise to provide legal aid to anyone who punches a protester at any of his rallies. That was a clear incitement to violence. Since then he has backed out of that promise – decided not to pay the court costs of a man who did punch a protester.

Guest

Stevan, you are being hysterical. In three months time Trump will be relegated to the dustbin of history, and that will be that.

webber
Guest

I don’t think Stevan is being hysterical.
If Trump’s remarks are understood by Trump’s followers as Stevan thinks they will be, then it would be logical to expect an attempt, or series of attempts to assassinate Hillary Clinton, esp. after she is elected. And Trump will have to carry some of the blame for inciting that, if Stevan is right.

I don’t understand Trump’s remarks as Stevan does, but that means nothing. The question is, do Trump’s nuttier followers understand the remarks as Stevan does?

Member

Just the fact that someone like him could have gotten this far, with this big a following, despite the ugly, obvious daily evidence is already an irreversible travesty of what democracy was meant (hoped) to be. Of course in the Carpathian Basement his Danubian Doppelgänger has gotten even farther…

Guest

Re: Trump relegated to dustbin of history.

Jury could be still out on that one. Fact is Trump has tapped into a particular tribe or constiuency. It cannot be denied that they have a particular of view of the US and the world. Nativism, isolationism, and anti-immigrant. He is their leader. And some will follow him. The election will be a bellwether for his group. We will see if he has the legs to keep inspiring those who want to be led by him. But as we certainly know there’s the off – chance he’ll blow himself up first with verbal drivel and recklessness.

Unbelievable that he got a degree a Wharton. What a poster guy he is for that insitution. Those guys have to be cringing as they try to fathom one of their own Eco moguls. Somebody else just had to ghost write his papers.
And one wonders if could solve for ‘x’ when x + 1=2.

tappanch
Guest

The latest Fidesz financial scandal I noted on August 9, 2016 4:25 am is growing.

It is propaganda minister Rogan behind the web of offshore companies that sink public & private money.

http://nol.hu/belfold/nem-is-tudtuk-de-rogan-antal-titokban-feltalalo-is-1627049

The propaganda ministry defends its boss:

http://nol.hu/gazdasag/rogan-antal-elismerte-hogy-feltalalo-de-tamad-1627133

Rogan is in the midst of other scandals too, where public interest was financially damaged:

A. local government (real estate in district V. of Budapest), billions of forints
B. state budget (unnecessary offshore companies selling green cards in return
for government bonds. tens of billions of forints.

Of course, Fidesz-appointed prosecutors are not eager to investigate a leading fidesznik.

pappp
Guest

Don’t worry tappanch. As we got to know from today’s edition of Népszabadsag (from Ildiko Csuhaj) Laszló Kövér is now morally outraged and will talk to Orban about this.

Orban is clean as a whistle, but, you see, he is unfortunately surrounded by questionable people.

That’s an issue. “The conscience of Fidesz” has morals too and he feels he must speak up.

He is also moving soon into his new penthouse residence at Balassi Balint street which building will also house his private army.

Member

Effete fatalism (probably feigned)

Guest

Simmer down, Stevan. No need for either pugnacity or hysterics.

webber
Guest

aha.
Kover is just beginning to notice what you still haven’t acknowledged (your comment higher above) – that the majority of Hungarian citizens are now sick of the Orban regime, and that even the majority of (fewer and fewer) Fidesz voters think the regime is corrupt.
People are going to vote against Orban in 2018. Mark my words.

pappp
Guest

This was sarcasm, webber. Obviously I understand even the finer points like why the supposedly leftist Népszabi published the interview which was also sarcastically commented on at index.hu etc. Kövér is ridiculous, just like Pokorni who in 2010 promised to chop off the fideszniks hands caught in the cookie jar. Apparently he did not fulfil his promise and he is still a loyal Fidesz supporter as ever, as Kövér is. And from what I gather Pokorni is just as corrupt as most Fidesznik mayors are. But as usual Rogan will survive this too, the story is way too complex, the media is not dealing with it.

webber
Guest

The independent media is not dealing with it because those who report on it now face prosecution for “harassment of public figures.” A small story on that came up yesterday on Index.

The majority of the media is owned by Fidesz and wouldn’t deal with it anyway.

petofi
Guest

“People are going to vote against…”

You’re a babe in the woods, webber. Must I remind you of Stalin’s dictum? (‘In a democracy…what is important is not that you vote, but who counts the vote!’) Ahem.
And lest you forget, there are many hundreds of thousands of votes issuing from Romania at the drop of a hat.

You can no more get the hardened criminals who have infested the body politic out, than you can seperate the red and white bloods cells in leukemia.

Live with it: Hungary is cancerous.

Guest

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Guest
The situation in Hungary reminds me of the classic Peanut cartoon., where Peanut glumly announces: “We have met the enemy. The enemy is us.” The core issue is chronic retardation. The most obvious indicator of this are the current voting patterns that are eerily similar to those in the late thirties, eighty years ago. Hungarians wallow in a culture of whinging and complaining (panaszkultúra), and find it difficult, if not impossible to be held accountable and take responsibility for anything whatsoever. They are prone to always blame others automatically, and are always ready to see the mote in others’ eyes, but not the beam in their own. Corrosive envy and merciless backstabbing is rife and very much a part of everyday life in Hungary. Hungarians have habit of obsequiously sucking up to their perceived social superiors as a matter of course, while brutally kicking and abusing their perceived social inferiors. Looting, corruption and nepotism are deeply entrenched, all-pervasive and taken for granted. Civic culture is poor to nonexistent, and “let the neighbour’s cow croak” (dögöljön a szomszéd tehene) may be said to be the leitmotif of life among Hungarians. All of this adds up to a mentally very sick and… Read more »
Member

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Guest

Re: ‘dogoljon a szomszed tehene’

And we wonder on that anti-migrant feeling after the one with the neighbors?? Must be something pungent in the ishtallo…

Guest

A nice picture describing reality – compared to the Fidesz propaganda:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10210685786886612&set=a.3658028015105.167010.1406763169&type=3&theater

Not too much OT:

My wife got an official letter today – she knew immediately what it was, info on how and where to vote on the referendum …
And she threw it immediately into our paper trash bin …

Guest

comment image?oh=e27b4f2594cbb215f2b82645c5456fee&oe=5856CA66

Member

Yes, this campaign seems to be a roaring success, so no wonder Hungary comes on top in the EU28 for disliking Muslims, I mean given there are so many here…
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/762015687904722944

I am trying to enjoy Heviz at the moment, but the standard of lunch-offers really gone downhill and Hungarians want to express their disgust for immigrants, totally oblivious for the fact that I am an immigrant myself. I also notice that again the behaviour to just answer in Hungarian (‘you must speak Hungarian’) when other not knowing any Hungarian phrases ask them something. The workers seems though have added some Russian phrases to their German knowledge.
All in all – I would say you really get the feeling xenophobia is on a general rise in Hungary, even in places where they live off the tourists. Not so much the workers, then only mad dogs bite the hand which feeds it, but the Hungarian tourists makes Heviz feels less welcoming, even for a guy living in Hungary for over 20 years.

Member

Seems like MSZP made their mind up, after reading this thread of course…
http://dailynewshungary.com/socialists-refusal-vote-october-referendum-means-stay-europe/
“Socialist Party leader Gyula Molnár said on Monday that the party plans to launch its campaign for Hungary’s migrant quota referendum on September 1. In the campaign, the party will urge voters to abstain from voting on Oct 2, Molnár said in Nyíregyháza, in north-eastern Hungary.”

Giuseppe Riccardi
Guest

The problem is the incredible attitude of the euro nomenklatura which is disintegrating the european union.
The same referendum would give the same results in every european country. Disintegration of the european communities is illogical and is of no use for development in africa or arab countries.

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