The baffling story of Zsolt Bayer’s decoration

Almost a week has gone by and the furor over the decoration of the foul-mouthed, racist, anti-Semitic Zsolt Bayer hasn’t quieted down. In fact, it has grown. The protest started with a single individual who had received a similar decoration earlier. He sent it back to János Áder, president of the country, with a note explaining his reason: he didn’t want to belong to a group that includes people like Zsolt Bayer. Others followed his lead. As of today 82 men and women have expressed their disgust in this way.

People wanted to know who was responsible for the incredible decision and what the justification was for giving him the award. The journalists seeking answers to these questions ran up against a wall of silence. They asked all the possible ministries and offices but didn’t receive credible answers to their questions. We know that the prime minister has the final stamp of approval when it comes to nominations. But János Áder, in whose name the decorations are bestowed, could have vetoed the nomination if he had so wished. After all, when Ferenc Gyurcsány recommended former prime minister Gyula Horn for a decoration in 2007, László Sólyom refused to endorse the nomination because of Horn’s activities after the defeat of the 1956 uprising.

The journalists also had a hard time learning why the Hungarian government found Bayer’s achievements so remarkable that it saw fit to give him a state decoration. The custom in most countries is for someone to read a citation spelling out the reasons for the honor before the award is given. No such citation was delivered during the ceremony. 444.hu eventually received word from the prime minister’s office that the recommendation came from a civic group devoted to the memory of those Hungarians who ended up in Gulag camps after 1945. Zsolt Bayer, according to that group, has done a lot to acquaint the Hungarian public with the fate of these people. In addition, Bayer has published many articles about the life of Hungarians in Transylvania.

A day later, when the latest Magyar Közlöny (Official Gazette) was published, the official citation emerged. According to it, Bayer received the decoration not just because of his “exploration of several national issues” but also “as a recognition of his exemplary journalistic work.” 444.hu commented: “After that, the question is when the Kossuth Prize will come.” The Kossuth Prize is given for outstanding personal and group achievements in the fields of science, culture, and the arts. So, after all, the Hungarian government thinks that Bayer is the very model of a modern Hungarian journalist, worthy of emulation.

The great moment. János Lázár hands Zsolt Bayer the Order of Merit

The great moment. János Lázár hands Zsolt Bayer the Order of Merit

Then came another surprise. Tamás Stark, the president of the foundation that allegedly recommended Bayer for the decoration, knew nothing about it until he read the story in Népszabadság. Stark is a well-known historian who is a senior researcher at the Historical Institute of the Hungarian Academy of Sciences. He has written extensively on the very subject on which Bayer is supposed to have done so much work. But Stark is not familiar with anything that connects Bayer to work on the Gulag. In fact, in his opinion Bayer doesn’t deserve any award or decoration, not just because he is a racist and an anti-Semite but because “he supports a Russian regime that doesn’t confront the sins of Stalinism and tries to minimize and relativize them. It is precisely the memory of the Gulag’s victims that doesn’t allow the decoration of such a journalist.”

It turns out that this foundation exists mostly on paper. Stark told HVG that they meet twice a year in remembrance of the victims. Members of the board do not keep in touch with one another. It seems that the vice president, a certain Jolán Pintér, got the bright idea of submitting Bayer’s name to somebody high up in the government. It may have been Zoltán Balog, minister of human resources, or perhaps Zsolt Semjén, deputy prime minister in charge of the group that decides on the persons recommended for prizes, awards, and decorations. Jolán Pintér refuses to say anything to the press.

Stark’s reference to Bayer’s relations with Putin’s Russia brought back memories of a Bayer piece published at the time of Vladimir Putin’s visit to Budapest in January 2015. It was titled “Letter to Vladimir Putin” (Levél Vlagyimir Putyinnak). The article begins with a long passage Bayer wrote back in 2005 after he had paid a visit to Siberia. It is a gushing ode to the Russian soul and the country’s literature. What comes afterward is outright nauseating. He praises Putin “for not letting Russia perish” and cites the close mental affinity between Hungary and Russia. They have certain things in common “which in vain would we like to explain to anyone in the West.” He does admit that in the past there were many times when Hungarians had reason to fear the Russians, “but now you are right about everything or almost everything, Mr. President.” The liberals worry about Russia’s designs on Europe “when there is no more Europe” because “Europe wants to be America, and, Mr. President, this was to be your fate too.” If Putin hadn’t saved his country “there would be no Russia today.” There would be only a huge colony devastated by consumption. “And it is possible that every half an hour a plane would leave Alaska for Kamchatka. As the Americans bought Alaska from the tsar, today they would buy all of Russia, but for less money. On the other hand, it would be declared that Russia is an impeccable democracy, a first-rate free country… But you didn’t allow that to happen. You made it strong. You made it Russian. You couldn’t have done anything greater than that.”

Meanwhile, the world’s most important papers reported the story of Bayer’s decoration, and the Washington Holocaust Museum released a statement that condemned conferring a decoration on Zsolt Bayer. It is a very strongly worded statement that I will publish in full later. Here is the gist of the statement: “Governments have a responsibility to combat hate speech that invites violence. This is especially true for countries like Hungary where systematic persecution and mass murder were carried out during the Holocaust with the active complicity of the Hungarian state. If Hungary’s Order of Merit truly recognizes ‘the promotion of universal human values,’ then Hungarian Prime Minister and Fidesz party leader Viktor Orban and President Janos Ader have no choice but to rescind Zsolt Bayer’s award immediately.”

The independent Hungarian media immediately reported on the Holocaust Museum’s condemnation, but the pro-government papers acted as if nothing had happened. The only exception was the newly created 888.hu, which is supposed to attract younger audiences. The headline reads: “America again wants to meddle in Hungary’s affairs.”

Otherwise, the consensus is that the government will not rescind the decoration and that Zsolt Bayer has no intention of relinquishing it. Put it this way, Zsolt Bayer is one of them. Three and a half years ago, when Bayer was under fire because of his remarks on Gypsies being animals, Bayer’s friends organized a birthday bash for him where many of the Fidesz bigwigs were present, among them László Kövér, who delivered a speech. He thanked Bayer for the 25 years ”we spent together, in good times and bad. But not once have we disavowed each other and we never will.”

It is time to recognize that there is no substantial difference between the political views of Bayer and those of the Fidesz leadership. It’s just that Bayer can state outright what they can only insinuate.

August 24, 2016

 

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Member

Zsolt Bayer simply the best disseminator of the Fidesz-Jobbik ideology and value system, which lacks humanity, compassion and decent moral values completely.

P.S. Approx. 1,500 of the same award was given so far to people, most of them went to Hungarians. So far 85 was returned, which is 5.6%. (444! has an active counter and list) My greatest respect goes to those, who returned it, scorn and disdain to the other 94.4%.

Member

The award exists since 2000. Some of the recipients are dead, so they cannot return their awards (example Aladar Pege). Shame on anyone who keeps it!

webber
Guest

And many of the recipients got the award under a very different regime. Should they return it? I think they should, but don’t feel so strongly about them as about those who accepted the award under Orban.

Member

True!

Member

Yes they should return it. When a symbol changes it’s meaning, one has to distinguish and reject it. The awards given by Mussolini, Hitler Mao or Stalin , etc. does not bode well on the chest of anyone today.

webber
Guest

Those who got the award under the Gyurcsány government? What should they feel ashamed of?
I agree everyone should return it, as a sign that the award is now worth less than nothing – that it befouls everyone around it – but some of the recipients, who got it at a time when it was not shameful, might feel different.

Member

Indeed, some of the nazis, who lived a long life and died long after WWII and some of the communists who died long after Stalin felt proud and were not ashamed of their awards, received for their work and performance.
——-
For a self-confident, intelligent person, who is an artist, scientist and other professional persons, who do great work for the betterment of society, it is not the awards that measures their value. They know their value and so do those, who kept their honor, remained just and did not sell out to the changing political powers.

webber
Guest

Gyula – In what way is an award granted under the Gyurcsany government comparable to an award granted by Nazi Germany or the USSR?

Observer
Guest

The Orban touch that befouls everything – from the 1848 vignette and the Merit Cross to Hungarian society. As a result of Orban/Fidesz ruinous activies Hungary has been impoverished , divided, frustrated and decivilized, as measured by its economic lagging, huge emigration, poor alcoholism and health statistics and one of the lowest “happiness” indexes in the world.
Not that the Orban Mafia care.

bimbi
Guest
We agree that the Fidesz hearts beat as one then? I celebration, I offer my prescient post of yesterday on the award of the Hungarian Middle (Finger) Cross to Hungary’s outstanding and leading journalist… While today’s post [on “Pig’s Head” Schopflin] can be passed off as just another report on a boorish ill-mannered, unsophisticated Fidesz hack, I see the problem as rather deeper than that. Five days ago we were given a lesson on the ‘unconventional’ Hungarian of Mr Zsolt Bayer, “Bassza meg” Bayer, as he prefers to be known. Regular readers will be aware that on the recommendation of the Minister for Human Capacities, Mr. Zoltan Balog, Janos Lazar presented Mr. Bayer with the national decoration, the “Hungarian Middle (Finger) Cross”. It is widely recognized that Mr. Bayer was nominated as a reward for his untiring efforts in the diffusion of unconventional Hungarian through the press, so we have him principally to thank for the usage of “Kurva anyád” in almost every line of his writing. That this “race to the bottom” has now been adopted as Fidesz Official Policy, approved and driven by none other than Mr Orbán himself is clear from the fact that “Bassza meg” Bayer’s… Read more »
dos929
Guest
Let’s face reality… Bayer, who is undoubtedly the scum of the earth as a human being or as a ‘journalist’, is no other than the mouthpiece of Orban. All those filthy ideas that come out of Bayer are those of Orban himself. But Orban, as crafty as he is, cannot say such deplorable things that come out of Bayer’s pen and mouth, so he lets Bayer to speak HIS mind. Now, in a decent democracy where such a mishap happens in spite of the system of checks and balances, the government and/or government agency that committed the ‘oversight’ will openly admits and corrects the ‘mistake’ even if it means ‘loss of face’. Of course in a country like Orbanistan, just the opposite is true. They stick to their guns and as day goes by they are sticking even more. And in the meantime hundreds of thousands of Hungarians, who are not afraid enough from their own government and take the time and effort to find out about the sins of the regime, are wondering why the EU community let one of their member countries to sink so low that concerns like the Bayer affair, government corruption and the likes became… Read more »
bimbi
Guest

dos929, 4:00 am,

“Let’s face reality…” you write and they you complain that the EU is does not rescue the Hungarian nation from its own government! You cannot be serious in this. Hungarians have to rescue Hungary. They cooked the pörkölt and now they either have to eat and digest it or throw the whole mess in the garbage.

Which is it to be?

dos929
Guest
I am sorry to disagree with you ‘bimbi’, although I recognise that in theory you are correct. It is not in the EU’s charter to rescue the Hungarians from their own government. But realities on the ground do not work like this. Or if they do it, it will be a bloodbath like the likes we had witnessed in the Balkans. And if I may point out; when all the tools of the regime’s democratic opposition are taken away and/or replaced by Fidesz filled institutions, and in a country when practically everything is in the hands of the ruling regime, there is not much room if any is available for the Hungarians to rescue themselves from these maniacs. Not all Hungarians are blind followers of the Fidesz ideology, but most Hungarians are dependent one way or another on the regime. In this impoverished country half the population is happy to survive from one week to the next. Orban with ‘clever’ and ruthless politics managed to destroy all effective opposition. Those few hundred thousand of intellectuals and learned professionals that are opposing the regime are too few in order to make a change, and only ‘left in peace’ by the regime… Read more »
bimbi
Guest

Dos929 8:50 am

You respond with force and depressing logic to the difficulties facing the Hungarian populace in ridding itself of the Orban/Fidesz mafia state. We don’t know how it will be, but depressing indeed if it would take another Kossuth tér slaughter, this time by Orban’s private army TEK (“They fired first!”) to lead to the ouster of the Orban mafiosi…

Guest

The EU will survive the Orbán regime, no problem there!

And for us Westerners it’s nice to have an underdeveloped country to go on holiday, to have them work for us on cheap wages and so on …

Just think about Bangladesh or China – and if they destroy their environment too, well who cares …

End of sarcasm …

PS:
Do I have to tell you again how nice it was for us West Germans to go on holiday in Hungary or Yugoslavia?
Many people there would do anything to please us – and many Germans liked that and complained after the fall of Socialism that the good old times were lost – maybe they’ll return now (for us at least …)?

Guest

Re:’ Many people there would do anything to please us – and many Germans liked that and complained after the fall of Socialism that the good old times were lost – maybe they’ll return now (for us at least…)?’

Now on that I can sure vouch! I can recall during the wonderful ‘K’ times that I commented to my wife I should have stuck with learning more German at university. It looked as if we were more in Nemetorszag. For a few times I thought we would have to sleep out on the ret because there was absolutely ‘no rooms at the inn’. The Germans were all over the place spending who knows how many forints. I’d say they saw Magyarorszag as a great place to relax and go and hangout at hazibulis…😎

pappp
Guest
Giving the decoration back is a political act. Very few people want to be seen as acting politically these days. Bayer will not give it back of course, Orban wouldn’t let him. It would be an act of surrender and Fidesz cannot be seen as surrendering under any circumstances. This whole Gulag angle smells like the usual “lepapírozás” (crating the paperwork retroactively to back up a dubious transaction). Most often Fidesz (Orban, Lazar etc.) decides something and then if the media asks for it very aggressively or they are forced by court to provide the documents then they retroactively prepare the paperwork, the evidence to make the appear as issue legal. Most likely Orban just decided it was time to award Bayer since he is a “great journalist who’s fighting liberals in an exemplary fashion” but when the scandal broke Orban’s involvement (ie. it was a simple favor for a political friend and nothing else) had to be protected, which is why nobody either knew or dared to leak any info at the beginning. Then the government made up this story about Bayer’s purported contribution to Gulag research. Nagyné Pintér Jolán, the deputy head of the foundation who was named… Read more »
bimbi
Guest
This discussion of Mr. Ader’s unwisdom in formally approving the award to Mr. Bayer highlights broader issues with respect to the dilemma facing Europe and European voters. As a consequence of the emotional turmoil, widespread in voters across Europe, associated with the influx of what are often perceived as less-than-adaptable migrants bringing with them the rise of Islam in Europe, in unknown militant and non-militant proportions, not infrequently the view is expressed the that the political candidates of the Right are those most worthy of support because of their willingness to bring about needed changes in regulation and control in defence of existing societies. Austria and France come readily to mind. This view sounds plausible and, of course, and it is one emphasized by those parties in their attempts to attain power on the basis that the existing political alignments are wavering, impotent and have failed. It is on this basis that Mr. Orban presents himself (and is now still accepted by much of the Hungarian electorate) as a man of strength who resolutely fights for what he believes in, emphasizing his unique role as the only leader who can protect the Hungarian People from the depredations of both the… Read more »
Bowen
Guest

Let’s not forget that “the foul-mouthed, racist, anti-Semitic Zsolt Bayer” was the person at the front, leading all the pro-government “Peace Marches” between 2010 and 2014. People in their hundreds of thousands were prepared to march behind him, and people in their millions saw that as no obstacle to voting for Fidesz again in 2014. There is something very rotten in Hungary.

pappp
Guest

OT, Interesting mystery. I guess Hungarian Jews simply don’t closely follow the government/government-sponsored-controlled media to be upset about the apparently constant Soros-bashing propaganda (supported by many Jews like Andy Vajna etc.) – which is let’s face it a very simple and time-honored anti-semitic substitute for the figure of the “bloodthirsty, scheming, evil Jew”.

Why else wouldn’t Hungarian Jews complain about the omnipresent vilification of Soros (that is of the Jews)? Are there few Jews left in Hungary? Or they just don’t care? Who knows, but if they themselves don’t demur than it is not anti-semitism, is it? Bede has a point

http://444.hu/2016/08/25/a-holtbiztos-modszer-amivel-barki-megallapithatja-antiszemitizmus-e-a-sorosozas

webber
Guest

“if they themselves don’t demur….”
What does that mean? Demur doesn’t mean what you think it means, apparently. Look it up.

pappp
Guest
Let me translate the oped by Bede: There has been an ongoing campaign against “Soros” in the state media, in TV2, internet sites etc., all over, for months. It’s been unrelenting, comprehensive and is clearly being orchestrated centrally by Orban himself. And it is effective, unfortunately. Normally we would call this a government-sponsored anti-semitic campaign (for Soros is nothing more than the symbolization of the figure of “the evil Jew”), and I agree that it actually is. However, says Bede, who are we non-Jews to say so if the most concerned ones, Jewish Hungarians (Hungarians jews, people with jewish identity etc.) seemingly remain silent in the face of this campaign. Certainly there has been no similar outrage displayed by jews to fight back against the many month-long Soros-based anti-semitic media campaign like we see now in connection with the Bayer award. Why is that? A good question, hence the linking of the oped. Bede says that the jewish organizations, its representatives are hopelessly corrupt, depedent on the state handouts (look at the Budapest Jewish Festival which is directly financed by the Prime Ministers office and showcases the same boring non-Jewish festival performers you can see everywhere, ie. it is pointless… Read more »
webber
Guest

Again, typical think of a Fidesznik or a Jobbikite – “an attack on one Jew is an attack on all Jews.”
No it is not! Why should any Jew in particular like, or dislike Soros?

Hungarians know perfectly well that they don’t have to like all other Hungarians. Examples: When people attack Gyurcsany, are they attacking all other Hungarians? Of course not. When people attack Orban, are they attacking all other Hungarians? Of course not.

But when it comes to Jews, the Hungarian right actually believes there is a conspiracy – that if you talk to one Jew, you are talking to them all, if you criticize one Jew, all other Jews will be offended.
A concrete example>
State Sec. Prohle once turned to a bunch of Holocaust scholars and started to berate them about the “American Jewish Press” (reminiscent of Nazi-era stupidity). They didn’t know what to say, other than to point out to him that none of them work for the press.
He actually believed that if he told one Jew, others would hear, the idiot.

webber
Guest

“typical thought” above – mistyped.
Pappp
Won’t you admit now that you ARE a Fidesz troll?Nobody will mind your presence, but it would be decent of you to be honest about your agenda.
Some will ridicule your arguments, of course – but you must be used to that by now.

Guest

Webber I’m not sure about pappp being a Fidesz troll, life can be complicated …
But (s)he is a defeatist in any case – and a Hungarian – his/her mixing up/having problems with his/her gave that away at least!

pappp
Guest
Webber, I am not a Fidesz troll. I will never admit that because it is not true. If you think that “sorosozás”, mentioning Soros ad nauseam in negative context is only about George Soros himself and has nothing to do with the symbolic figure of “Jews” (and as such Hungarian jews) then you are much more naive that I thought and Orban and Habony are much smarter (just by virtue of having been able to fool people like you in 2016 and not only in 2010). I only relayed Marton Bede’s argument which I found fresh and perhaps provocative. Yet instead of reacting to the substance of the oped you simply dismissed me as a troll. Your examples are not perfect. The situation is again a bit more complex. The Western attacks on Orban are actually interpreted by many right-wingers as attacks on all Hungarians (and they feel on themselves especially). Also if you would day in and day out, months after months single out and attack, demonize etc. let’s say Csokonai Vitéz Mihály as a pedophile, evil person who wanted to destroy Hungarians people of Debrecen (whose one of the famous son Csokonai, the poet is, he actually represents… Read more »
Member

Jolan Pinter, the person who suggested Bayer for the medal, finally spoke up. While denying that she had coordinated with anyone or the she has any political motivation and connections, she was fast to say that she has not read any publications of Bayer. She simply suggested Bayer as he was an early contributor to some Gulag research. Now that is interesting as in the official reason in the government’s publication at states: “in recognition of exemplary journalistic activities”
Ms. Pinter said: ” Anyone who speaks about the Gulag and brings attention to the life tragedies, and horrors that happened there worth more to me above anything else!” I guess that opens up quite a spectrum, and provides hope for rapists, child molesters, and even to the ax murderer of Azerbaijan (who is also a Fidesz favourite next to Bayer.)

http://hvg.hu/itthon/20160825_Nem_is_ismeri_Bayer_irasait_az_ot_kituntetesre_felterjeszto_Pinter_Jolan

Observer
Guest

The Jolan Pintér story reminds me of the stalinist times, when a simple worker would denounce a top Communist leader at some congress, Stalin would “comply with the will of the people” and the top leader would be charged, sentenced and executed within months.
As I said, there is little difference between communism and fascism.

tappanch
Guest

Two offshore companies connected to Habony has collected almost 90% of the “green card” monkey business, i.e. an estimated 70 billion forints.

comment image

http://nol.hu/belfold/letelepedes-kotveny-letelepedesi-kotveny-habony-arpad-uzlet-penz-1629109#

tappanch
Guest
Guest
Re: a part of the ZB prose ode to the modern Czar as he waits for the ‘Visit’ ..(no bassza meg in here!) ‘Now I await it. Because now you are right. This is the first and most important thing that we must say. You are right in almost everything. Most of all in that you did not let Russia perish. ……. And be assured that we are also right. And also be aware that those who now rant against you and Russia here got along splendidly with the Soviet Union and approved of it when the Soviet Union trampled on us in ’56. This is how they lived for forty years. And they hated me precisely as much then, when I hated the Soviet Union, as they hate me now because I love Russia and think you are right’ From all this one would have to think that this must be a manifestation of ‘Stockholm Syndrome’. Brutal abuse alas has finally produced its fateful consequences. And Russia ‘right in almost everything?’ Said sitting in the comfy lap as kis gyerek to the Great Apa’s szerelem. The Czar no doubt blushes with the ingratiating encomiums coming his way as he… Read more »
tappanch
Guest

Important.

The Orban government wants to create a new type of court, with loyal judges.
The court would rule on politically sensitive cases, giving the regime favorable verdicts.

http://hvg.hu/itthon/20160825_kozigazgatasi_birosagok_letrehozasa_javaslat_biroi_fuggetlenseg

tappanch
Guest
FreeWheeling
Guest

Could this Bayer Zsolt award provocation just be a diversionary tactic by the gov’t while they essentially create an “eximius” court?

pappp
Guest

The new court is not a huge public political issue for Fidesz so it doesn’t want to divert any attention from it. It’s political only in the sense of power politics within or vis-a-vis the general courts.

Just as people didn’t and don’t care about the new constitution and its amendments a law about a new specialized court is way to abstract for average folks.

These are intellectual issues which simply don’t percolate down to the general public and Fidesz is absolutely aware of that.

They know exactly what is important and what is not from a PR point of view.

Guest

Pappp, you never cease to amaze me!
You seem to have a very low opinion of your fellow countrymen (assuming for a moment that you’re Hungarian too …).

What you’re telling us means in a nutshell:

(The Majority of …) Hungarians are stupid, easily manipulated whiners, believing the most idiotic propaganda and complaining all the time about the rest of the world – everybody is against them …

And they are too stupid to realize who is taking their money and laughing all the time on the way to the bank …
What a sorry people!

Observer
Guest

wolfi7777

You’re half right or more.

People would be people, it is just a matter of ratio and the Hungarian one is not good by euro standards.

I’m not being cynical, that’s what history points out.

Guest

Re: ‘They can do whatever they want to’

And unfortunately with ‘permissions’ that seem to be freely given within a society that not only keeps redefining its histories but the concept of ‘freedom’ itself in the 21st. To be ‘free’ apparently is is to have the electorate march in lockstep to one drummer. The imposition of a new illiberal order that is being thrust upon the society demands the new definitions barked sometimes stridently , sometimes obscenely and raucously from seats of power. Horror shows were never made so delightful as to put the electorate in a frame of mind where they are happy to have their ropes (and hopes if any) tied to a very dry wishing well. It looks as if no oasis looks to be in the offing. The country is dying of thirst.

pappp
Guest

The good old 70:30 or more like 95:5 these days. There are no more corrupt people that the MSZPniks.

I don’t think any that is even one former Fidesznik turned into an MSZP supporter between 2002-2010 but Fidesz flips one szoci or szdsznik after another.

Dobolyi is also Veres Janos’ wife who is still to this day head of the Szabolcs county MSZP. Pathetic. These lefties are so cheap, it’s unbelievable. And some people seriously think they can beat Fidesz, LMAO.

http://index.hu/belfold/2016/08/25/nagykovet_lesz_az_egykori_mszp-s_dobolyi_alexandra/

webber
Guest

Yep, you’re a Fidesz troll!
Stefan got you right.
Your comment about “Jews” above is a sign of it too.

pappp
Guest
webber: the situation is a bit more complex than that. Some 40% of Hungarians don’t have a party preference. This means that they dislike Fidesz but they cannot find any attractive party on the Left. Fidesz’s been in power for 6 years now yet these people steadfastly refused to be identified as leftist voters. What if I am one of this 40% (which is almost one out of two random people)? Just because I’m critical of MSZP and think – along with some 85% of the general public (MSZP having perhaps 15% of popularity from the general public on a good day) – that they are hopelessly divided, impotent and corrupt I am a Fidesz-troll? You are ridiculous. Just a tidbit: We know from an interview given by Kalar Dobrev (wife of Gyurcsany who is still by far the most unpopular major politician , even Rogan is better liked) that Orban’s wife refused to attend (or shake hands with Dobrev) a charity event held for helping children or something like that. Orban forbade her wife to fraternize with the enemy no matter what the issue. With such discipline Orban destroyed the Left. Now Janos Veres, still a major force in… Read more »
webber
Guest

No, the situation with a Fidesz-propagandist such as yourself is actually very simple: Pose as anti-Fidesz, then repeat the mantra that the left in Hungary will never win.

pappp
Guest

webber: they may win, and then what? You can stage an Arab spring revolution or whatever and then what? I maintain that the current left-wing will be unable to and partly unwilling (as many are on the Fidesz’ payroll) to undo the Fidesz-system. It’s too complex a task. Fidesz staged a real revolution, replaced an entire elite, but the left-wing fails to see that and comprehend the thoroughness of the changes. They have no vision (which in any case would have to be based on facing the harsh reality) and lack the intellectual capabilities. My doubts are shared by 40% of the voters who are not fideszniks. I’m not a fideszniks either.

pappp
Guest
This would also be a very stupid strategy from a troll, wouldn’t it? Firstly, I have at least 5-10 anti-Fidesz or Fidesz-critical comment to let’s say one which is critical of the left-wing. That’s quite a bad efficiency for a Fidesz-troll. Secondly, even if I say and repeat that I still believe (just as I believed say a year ago or six months ago) that the left-wing is unable and unwilling to get rid of the Orban-system, why should this concern supporters of the left-wing? Try to remember: in 2002 or 2006 would any Fidesz-voter have given a damn if you had told them they were gonna lose? No, they were proud, determined and went out to vote regardless. You could tell them anything it wouldn’t have worked, they didn’t give a shit. Now, this is the commitment and discipline the left-wing needs if it wants to fight against Fidesz (and get rid of its system/regime), which party is a combination of any army and a mafia. If your belief that my critique of the left-wing somehow is able to lessen the probability of the left-wing to win/get rid of the system (which would be the goal of a troll)… Read more »
webber
Guest

I strongly disagree – it will be extremely easy for the left to dismantle the Fidesz system. The moment another party gets into power it will be in Fidesz’s own interest to democratize the system. As it is, it’s winner take all and then some. A change in government can mean a very rapid demolition of Fidesz – their appointees can be removed very easily using exactly the methods Fidesz used to remove people.
Will the left want to give Fidesz any breathing room at all, that is the question.
People will not mind seeing Fideszniks popped in prison – starting with Polt – and that’s putting it mildly. A lot of people would break out bottles of champagne at convictions of Fidesz people.

pappp
Guest
webber, you are dreaming unfortunately. You don’t seriously think that the people in the prosecution, courts, constitutional court, the new administrative court (who have been selected for party loyalty for years) will play along? Maybe they will be a bit silent for six months and after the government becomes less popular they will continue with their pro-Fidesz, pro-Orban, corrupt strategies. The investigations will stall and soon old Fideszniks will call the shots again (remember they have hundreds of billions of forints stahsed away and invested) and you will have a constantly bickering, infighting leftist coalition. Nope, the constitutional system is unfortunately strong, entrenched and the HR has been very good in putting loyal and corrupt fideszniks in place (we literally talk about a few thousand people who are now in these institutions, will they all suddenly get to like MSZP and DK when all in their lives they were loyal Orbanists and hated them commies?). I gather you are not a lawyer and you do not understand how a legal system (and its people) work? I’m sorry to report that Orban’s elite change in the legal branches has been extremely thorough. A change of government will not be enough for… Read more »
Observer
Guest

It’s a matter of money (van ez a pénz), Part of the hundreds of billions robbed by Fidesz will be invested in politics. Everyone (almost) has a price.
The ambassador post is free for Fidesz, the dupes pay for it. (Problem is there are many Eskimos and not so many seals).

Delta sounds
Guest

The dozens of good Hungarians who returned their medals are like the heroes who stood up to totalitarians during the darkest days in Europe: Bonhoeffer, Niemoller, Wallenberg, Sophie Scholl and others. Scholl of the White Rose resistance movement said before her execution in 1943, “Somebody, after all, had to make a start. What we wrote and said is also believed by others. They just don’t express themselves.”
You and your readers express yourselves with a moral clarity that shames cretins like the rat faced Bayer, who makes the KKK’s David Duke look like a humanitarian. But Bayer may be too stupid and drunk to understand how much he harms Hungary’s reputation around the world with his 10th-rate prose. Keep up the good, all of you.

Member

” But Bayer may be too stupid and drunk to understand” I do not think he cares! Do you think Orban cares about Hungary’s reputation regarding the EU funds, the treatment of refugees, the corruption…. Of course not. The only thin they care about is themselves. Hungary is not the reason, Hungary is the tool to get what they want!

tappanch
Guest

Interview with Bayer. MD grandfather, who was first Nyilas, then III/III.

http://mandiner.hu/cikk/20160826_bayer_zsolt_interju_igazuk_van_befejezem_lovagkereszt_tragarsag_indulat

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