Hatemongers in their own words

With three weeks to go until the Hungarian referendum on refugees, the government campaign has intensified. A host of politicians and government officials, from ordinary backbenchers to the president of the country, the president of the parliament, and all the cabinet ministers, have been mobilized to spread fear of the “migrants” at town meetings. Members of the pro-government media have also been enlisted to support the government’s efforts to achieve a valid, successful referendum, which allegedly would thwart the plans of the European Commission to foist masses of unwanted people of an alien culture on Hungary. And Viktor Orbán is ready to employ the basest instruments of coercion, including blackmail.

Let’s start with his speech at the opening session of parliament on September 12. After accusing the European Union of planning to relocate “migrants” to cities under socialist leadership, he warned local politicians that “it will be decided [by this referendum] whether there will be and, if yes, where the migrant settlements will be, so [local leaders] should watch out and make sure that large numbers of people go and vote.” He added that if the local politicians don’t like this message, they shouldn’t blame him because he is only relating the words of Martin Schulz. Of course, this is not at all what Schulz said when he visited Szeged in March, one of the few socialist strongholds in Hungary. He simply said in an interview with Stern after his return from Hungary that there are places in the country which, unlike the Hungarian government, do not reject migrants. He brought up Szeged as an example of a city where “any migrant would be safe to go.” But then came an op-ed piece in the right-wing Magyar Hírlap by Ottó Nagy, who charged that László Botka, the socialist mayor of Szeged, had made a secret pact with Jean-Claude Juncker and Martin Schulz, promising them that if and when he becomes prime minister he will accommodate migrants in Szeged.

Orbán emphasized that this nationwide referendum is also thousands of local referendums, meaning that the government will judge each city, town, and village according to the outcome of the referendum. If they don’t manage to turn out the (correct) vote, they will see what will happen to them. In plain English, he is blackmailing local leaders, who in turn will most likely blackmail the inhabitants, who already fear the migrants more than the devil himself. The word is spreading: if you don’t go and vote “no” or if there are too many spoiled ballots, your city, town, or village will have thousands of migrants who will rape your girls and blow up your churches.

Not surprisingly, local governments with left or liberal leaderships were outraged, especially because the story was immediately picked up by the pro-government media. Even Fidesz mayors found it too bizarre for words. Others, often Fidesz-supported independents, objected to the pressure coming from Fidesz to add their names to the government’s locally distributed campaign literature.

I’ve already written about the pressure being applied to the Roma population, who are told that if Hungary has to admit refugees they will be deprived of government assistance. In the first place, by now there is hardly any government assistance given to anyone. Most unemployed Roma do public work for a meager salary. So, that is an idle threat. But what is a serious matter is that their eligibility for public work is determined by the mayors, who can easily pressure the local Roma to make sure they vote the right way. Otherwise, no public work. As usual, the Orbán government found its man, Attila Lakatos, the Gypsy “vajda,” a kind of leader-judge within the community, who was willing to put out the call to his fellow Gypsies “to defend our children, families, work, and the country in which we live.” He is convinced that if the “immigrants come here we will have to worry about our daughters, wives, and children because they will be unsafe.” Soon enough a number of anti-government Roma mayors got together to reject the government’s hate campaign, but I’m afraid their voices will be drowned out in the din of government propaganda reaching the majority of the Roma population.

Among the journalists of the pro-government media Zsolt Bayer is the most popular. Every locality wants him to deliver one of his inspirational lectures. His first stop was in Kecskemét, the city where Mercedes-Benz has its plant. Ironically, he delivered his hate-filled speech in the auditorium of the Piarist high school. The place was filled to the brim with people who greeted him with extended applause. After delivering the government’s favorite conspiracy theories about the forces behind the recent migration, his parting words were: “Those who don’t go and vote or who vote “yes” are traitors who cannot be called Hungarian.”

hate

Bayer’s fellow extreme right-wing journalist, András Bencsik, editor-in-chief of Demokrata, a far-right weekly, is another important spokesman for the government. Bencsik’s paper is not a Jobbik publication, though you would never know it by reading the articles published there. Bencsik and his staff are steadfast supporters of the Orbán government and Fidesz. He, alongside Bayer, was one the chief organizers of the Peace Marches staged in defense of Viktor Orbán, whom foreign governments allegedly wanted to remove from power. The marches, which were supposed to be spontaneous affairs, turned out to be government-sponsored, government-organized demonstrations to which thousands of people were bused from all over the country. Viktor Orbán was extremely grateful. He later claimed that without the organizers he would have been unceremoniously ousted. Bayer, Bencsik, and a few others saved him. So, we are talking here about an important Fidesz and Viktor Orbán supporter.

Bencsik wrote an op-ed piece titled “Where shall we put them?” He begins by explaining that if the referendum is valid and successful, there is a good likelihood that regardless of how much the Brussels bureaucrats “resort to subterfuges, they cannot disregard the highest expression of popular sovereignty.” So then the migrants will not be coming to Hungary.

But what if there is not a sufficient number of votes and the referendum is not valid? We will find ourselves in an interesting situation. According to the plans of the Union’s bureaucrats, in the first round Hungary will have to settle 13,000 people, but they have already put forward another proposal which doesn’t specify an upper limit. So, if the referendum is not valid and the judges in Strasbourg [where Hungary attacked the decision of the settlement of the 1,294 migrants] decide against us, then whether we like it or not, the migrants will be coming. Yearly at least 13,000.

How will they be divided among 3,000 Hungarian localities? These people cannot be locked up in camps because they are citizens of the Union. Clearly, they will be dispersed according to how the people in each locality voted. The towns where many people went to vote and the ratio of “nays” was high may not receive one single migrant or perhaps only a few. But where this question was not important enough for the inhabitants and they didn’t bother to answer the referendum question, in those places surely the people will not mind the arrival of happy Muslim families. There will be plenty of them.

In those towns the girls will not go out after dark. Or, if they do, they will have to be followed by three male members of the family with pitchforks in hand. Girls will not go to discos; they will not bicycle in shorts; they will not leave the house on New Year’s Eve. They will celebrate the new year in the cellar; they will not dare go to the swimming pool, but if they do, they will not wear a bathing suit. Young boys will not walk alone on the street because, after all, it is a different cultural milieu and one never knows.

All this is no joke but is taken from daily occurrences in Western Europe. There will be parts of towns where first at night, but later even during daytime it will not be advisable for a Hungarian to enter. And in time there will be explosions, assassinations, constant tension, jitteriness, and so on.

This is what’s at stake in the referendum that will take place in three weeks. Either Europe will be the victim of forcible change of epic proportions and a thousand-year-old civilization will irretrievably fade away or Europe will resist the pressure and defend itself.

This is a typical anti-refugee message of the Orbán government. It is one thing to read in general about the intensity of Hungarian government propaganda and an entirely different thing to be confronted with an example of the message the Orbán propagandists have been delivering for well over a year. Whipping up hatred day in and day out on state television and radio, even during the Olympic Games, the government has succeeded in gripping the population in a state of mass hysteria. And the effects of this indoctrination will not disappear after the referendum. They will linger for many years to come, reinforcing and amplifying an already lamentable Hungarian xenophobia.

September 18, 2016
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Member

Bangs and Whimpers

I never had much sympathy for those wags who, to vent their (supposed) indignation about Orban’s depredations, have nothing more to say or better to do than to bleat about how ineffectual the opposition is. When Orban is able to do a nationwide public brainwashing like this, before the eyes of the world, and get away with it, how is any internal democratic force to resist? As to waiting for the Hungarian populace to see through Orban’s demogoguery and villainy — what is to be expected from them when at least half of America is in Trump’s fell thrall with eyes open? Wouldn’t it be a proud footnote on humankind’s history that Lilliputin found the fatal flaw in democracy even before the Yanks barrelled down its sinkhole?
comment image

webber
Guest

Your comments about Trump have been rather like those of people here who write about the weakness of the Hungarian left.

Member

I think you’ve missed my point. (A better rejoinder would have been that I too sound like a defeatist. But witnessing the public embrace of patent lies and wickedness will do that to you sometimes. It makes one admire Éva’s unflagging positivity all the more.)

webber
Guest

Defeatist, with regard to the US elections, is precisely what I meant.

Member

I sure hope you turn out to be right!

webber
Guest
Member

But even if Trump loses (and I still can’t believe, even in my worst nightmares, that such a vile creature could ever actually be elected President of the United States), the damage is done: the hatred is sown. It will take years, maybe decades, to recover. Ditto for Orban’s toxic legacy.

dos929
Guest
Those that criticise the people of Hungary and the opposition for their ineffectiveness against the Orban regime have some justification in their judgement. However, it is an impossible task to fight against a regime where all the tools of the media and actual power are in regime’s hands. In the democratic countries of Western Europe one may air even the smallest of grievances either by turning to the appropriate government agencies or by demonstrating, etc… Furthermore, when the regime’s power in Hungary have extended to all areas of life so much so that people are genuinely afraid for their everyday existence, their jobs and and even for their privacy, it is nearly impossible to have an effective opposition. This is why many decent people in Hungary are looking to the West for moral and actual support against the Orban regime. And when this support doesn’t come, and/or comes too late and too little, and only in a look warm fashion, and when at the same time the financial propping up the regime goes on via the EU subsidies, the little hope that is left is diminishing by the day. Sure that even when Orban and his regime didn’t exist even… Read more »
Member

I think you are right in all the points you make, including that although neither the opposition nor the populace is entirely blameless, yet the tools of tyranny trump all that.

But it is Trump’s huge and faithful following under entirely different circumstances, with eyes wide open and no mafia state pressure, that is beginning to put a different complexion on it all (for me). At least half the US has become like Waco Texas.

Observer
Guest

Lies, damn lies, Orban.

His whole political life has been a string of cheating, blatant lies and primitive populism – from the 1989 speech to this day. Add malice and aggression.
This cheap character costs the Hungarians extremely dearly, but the majority is too simple or too blind to see it.

webber
Guest

The majority now hates him, deeply. Just look at the poll numbers on that.
The opposition cannot win (yet) because people like them. They can win (easily), because people hate Fidesz, if the opposition will just say again and again, “Do you want another four years of this?”

Alex Kuli
Guest

“The majority now hates him, deeply. Just look at the poll numbers on that.”

Out of curiosity, which poll numbers are you looking at? Here is a summary of the polls taken over the summer months. If the elections were held next Sunday, Fidesz would take 43-48 percent of the vote, with an additional 18-25 percent for Jobbik, according to the analysis.

http://kozvelemenykutatok.hu/a-nyari-honapok-kozvelemeny-kutatasainak-osszegzese/

webber
Guest

ALEX!!!!
You know better than that!
Those are numbers for “people who are sure whom they will vote for” – and THAT is a minority of voters in Hungary –

Even the govt.-controlled Századvég, which lies through its teeth about its poll numbers (look for articles about that, if you didn’t know) puts the no. of Fidesz voters at 34% of the total population. It is surely much lower than that. People are lying, you know (witness surprising results in local by elections)..
http://mandiner.hu/cikk/20160305_szazadveg_novekedett_orban_viktor_nepszerusege

You, of all people, should know how to read poll data.

webber
Guest

Alex -apparently you’ve been swallowing Fidesznik spin-doctors’ bait.
Think – if what they said were true, how could the opposition win a single by-election? How is it that Fidesz no longer has a 2/3 majority?
I suggest you change your media diet. What you are consuming is unhealthy. It has the same effect on brain cells as THC.

Alex Kuli
Guest

I’d respond, but I have a feeling it would elict more of the trollish baloney you just dished out. I haven’t got time for that, I’m afraid.

webber
Guest

Naw, I’ve dished out enough baloney today – let me guess first, though: You’ll point out that the group of Fidesz supporters is still the largest group of committed voters…
Am I right?

PALIKA
Guest

Good for you Alex Kuli, join the club

Observer
Guest

To put the danger from migrants in prospective – while envisaging the potential dangers for the Hungarian the hate mongers never mention that a woman is killed almost every week here. Shall we expell the Hungarian men for this?

Guest

If the government threatening with collective punishment on the basis of local majority for or against the government is in accord with the Hungarian constitution then there is something fundamentally wrong with the constitution. Otherwise there is something fundamentally wrong with the government.

webber
Guest

In Hungary’s case, both.

Guest

And what is the EU doing about a member country which openly blackmails its cittizens? It does nothing, as usual, and instead continues sending funds, used precisely and deftly to accelerate Fidesz propoganda.

So the EU is directly funding non-democratic pracitses. It is an insane state of affairs, and though it might seem to the EU that Hungary is just a pifflling little country on the fringes, the effect of ignoring East European mischief-makers will have serious consequences.

Most people had never heard of Sarajevo, nor cared what was going on there, until the first world-wide conflict. The devil is never idle, and our own resident devil Orbán just keeps sowing seeds of hatred which will have unforseen and far reaching effects.

webber
Guest

Bayer popular??….
Well, if you mean that he is “invited” to give presentations by Fidesz mayors, because they are encouraged to have him talk, then yes, he’s popular.
If you mean a lot of people watch his excruciatingly boring t.v. program, or read his boorish newspaper opinion pieces, then no, he’s not popular at all. He’s on t.v. and in the paper because people in power want him there. Not because he attracts viewers or readers. He doesn’t.

pappp
Guest

Bayer is popular in the same way Trump is (obviously Trump is really popular Bayer is less so). There is a very big constituency which wants these conspiracy theories, these tough racists words spoken out loudly.

The members of the audience themselves feel they cannot say those out loudly because that would be too controversial but they are very happy to hear people talk about those “issues” (of course many of these issues are entirely made up like the drug threat in the Philippines, but these things unfortunately tend to work, people can really feel united and pleased when they can hate others together).

There is a reason why local Fideszniks want Bayer to appear, with Bayer these Fideszniks think they can deliver results but with Péter Harrach or Voldemort Mengyi it’s a big question.

webber
Guest

Bayer is not popular at all.

Look at how many people watch his show. Hardly anybody. He is on t.v. and in the paper because his is popular with a person in power. That is all. If that is “popular” in your view, then we are talking about two different things.

If Hungary had a fully liberalized media market, in which the only thing that counted was attracting viewers, and thereby advertising revenue, Bayer wouldn’t be on t.v. or in the newspaper at all.

What Hungary has is a media so distorted by direct and indirect state sponsorship that popularity has nothing to do with being on t.v.
(I mean – advertising revenues are linked to political stance, not to market share – for instance, the state lottery advertising solely done in r-wing media).

webber
Guest

But Pappp, I am glad that I again irritated the Fidesznik (still?) hidden in you.

pappp
Guest

webber, chill out. There is no Fidesznik in me at all. Not even on a subconscious level.

pappp
Guest

What I want to resist is the very false hope (almost always implied in your posts I feel) that oh the people are only oppressed by Fidesz that’s why they don’t express their dislike of Fidesz, but in reality they are totally opposition leaning and want to get rid of Orban.

No, Fidesz has a strong nation-wide (especially rural) base. This base may be less than 50%, maybe now less than 30% even, but it is still in my view the biggest united political group at present and a strong force to be reckoned with.

And in the current election system supported by an overwhelming media and state apparatus that figure can be more than enough for Fidesz to retain power, possibly even to increase it to over 2/3s which is distinct possibility at a snap election in spring 2017 (just in time for Orban to assume the post of a strong president after Áder) provided the referendum is deemed successful enough (which would imply to Orban the efficacy of its media empire and GOTV machinery).

I think you seriously underestimate the power of an autocratic (often quasi-feudalistic) system and overestimate people’s liberal, humanistic, rational thinking. That’s all.

webber
Guest

All you ever do is say, in so many words, that the opposition cannot win. That’s not terribly clever.
At best, you are a defeatist – an unwitting propagandist of Fidesznik-triumphalism. At worst, you know what you are doing.

Instead of all the negativity, why don’t you suggest how you think the opposition might win?
Try a positive attitude, from time to time. By that, I don’t mean you need to deny problems as you see them. I mean you might suggest ways to overcome those problems.

pappp
Guest

Well, this opposition is in a very difficult state and in significant part because of itself. I think the (remote) possibility for it to prevail over Fidesz does exist, but those many parties seem to be unable to live with it. I might have some ideas how a democratic opposition could potentially unseat Fidesz but I’m afraid I can’t share those here.

Member

I agree with webber about papp’s negativism (even though I’ve been guilty of it too, today), whatever its provenance.

But the dream that “If Hungary had a fully liberalized media market, in which the only thing that counted was attracting viewers, and thereby advertising revenue, Bayer wouldn’t be on t.v. or in the newspaper at all” seems to be trumped by Trump (at least insofar as Orban, if not Bayer, is concerned.)

Fox/Breitbart are not state-imposed media, and yet they have their outsize following, in full daylight. And the liberal media have no choice but to channel this foul fraud’s antics and the fell fervour of his following.

webber
Guest

Different scale. I doubt a market of (under) 10 m. could support a Bayer.
A market of (over) 318 m. – sure.

Guest
Re: ‘If Hungary had a fully liberalized media market, in which the only thing that counted was attracting viewers, and thereby advertising revenue, Bayer wouldn’t be on t.v. or in the newspaper at all. What Hungary has is a media so distorted by direct and indirect state sponsorship that popularity has nothing to do with being on t.v.’ You know I agree certainly about the distortion. Without a doubt the functioning of the media markets in Magyarorszag are an absolute disaster. The watchdogs on that I’d say were certainly asleep as couch potatoes watching and listening to media happenings. Sitting and doing virtually nothing has been a dangerous activity. But as to the ‘ZB Musor I would suggest that he indeed wouldn’t be precluded in a ‘fully liberalized Magyar media market’ to strut his stuff. For as long as he’s got the forints or whatever they pay for ad time he can be up there yapping away. Ad time is always perishable. TV and radio nets and station in that kind of atmosphere would never turn down dough coming in…..even if an ‘advertiser’ like ZB likes to tell stories and write copy that incites hatred. And that perhaps is the… Read more »
webber
Guest

That said, I remember very well what the mood was like when Reagan was first elected (not by my state). Some people were talking about moving to Canada – and I know there are people talking about that now, too:

Member

Trump makes Reagan look like a wise and dignified statesman (when in reality he was just a simple-minded goofball).

Guest

London Calling!

This ‘Threatenerendum’ is a classic example of how autocracies think so-called democracy works:

“If I want your opinion, I’ll give it to you.”

It’s not enough to ask a loaded, warped, skewed foregone-conclusion question – but then to back it up with coercion and then add blackmail is just unbelievable propaganda from a Westerner’s point of view, used to a proper, decent democracy.

That the Hungarian voter falls for it hook, line and sinker shows their naïvity and inexperience of the democratic process.

Not entirely their fault, of course. Just mainly.

To root out the truth requires a political engagement even in the best of democracies.

It’s just a bit harder when the media, legislature and Parliament (inter alia), have been trussed up like a chicken that Hungarians have to fight a little harder.

Even if they are pre-occupied with just getting through the day – they should seek out the truth.

So Hungarians: Boycott the Threatenerendum; learn a useable foreign language; and bog up on democracy.

(‘Bog up’ is London slang students use to mean study, revise, cram. You won’t find it on the internet or reference books.)

Until then you’ll all be a walkover for Viktorlae Orbanescu.

Guest

The (over) use of lamp posts for this propaganda is such an irony. (I know you know.) – One of the most despised propaganda purveyors was strung up on a lamp post.

Mussolini, of course.

pappp
Guest

Good article (in Hungarian). The lock on the minds in rural places is so thorough that it doesn’t even occur to people that there are other possibilities than to vote NO (as the government is pushing for).

There are only two things sure in rural places: they have never met a migrant in their lives and they are terrified of migrants.

http://index.hu/velemeny/2016/09/18/a_menekultellenes_kampany_nem_is_a_migransokra_a_legveszelyesebb/

Guest
Re: the Vee and Zee ‘security’ service Just a ruminating thought. Law enforcement here is now dealing with a few bombs ’round here’ going off here jangling the nerves of the law and the population. Definitely a terrorist act. What is not known yet if there is a foreign connection. Thinking if the ‘bombing’ shoe is on the other foot I would suggest the fear the government has provoked among its population about migrants and their connections to terrorism would tremendously exacerbate theirs and the government’s response to it. It would appear it is more important for Bayer , that security man par excellence, to rail about ‘traitors’ than perhaps worrying about how Magyars will deal with an unnerving situation that would test themselves in living their ordinary and daily lives and dealing with the fact that some indeed are out to kill them unmercifully. When Magyarorszag becomes a bona fide terrorist target and people scramble for their lives in cafes and restaurants and trains emergency powers will probably be a child’s kindergarten setup as the country shuts down , the gates locked even more and the hatreds having no leash as everybody will feel the threats. And yet through… Read more »
webber
Guest

Could be a domestic terrorist (odds are). Could be a foreign one. Could be a Muslim extremist. Could be a Christian fundamentalist.
Could be a nasty teenager with a penchant for mayhem.
I am sure they will catch whoever it is, and then we will know.

Guest

Yes. Timing is really great with the UN meetings and a new police Commissioner. He has had a great introduction to his job.
He literally is now in the terrorist pressure cooker.

webber
Guest

Looks like his people are doing a great job. They are being careful, and don’t seem to have assumed anything. More devices have been found and neutralized. People are under questioning. And the name of a suspect has been released – a naturalized US citizen born in Afghanistan. They don’t say he’s the bomber yet, they just say he’s the suspect. That’s fantastic work.

Guest

Yes. A tribute to their penchant for ‘details’ in this sprawling country. Incredible work. Have to say it.
Kills me if true to see a ‘citizen’ taking his own country down. ‘Loyalty’ gone awry to somewhere someplace.

Istvan
Guest

András Schiffer has an extensive interview today http://nol.hu/belfold/schiffer-andras-interju-lmp-politika-magyarorszag-orban-kormany-1632415 in which he too says the refugee quota issue is effectively dead in the EU. The referendum is in his opinion both immoral and unnecessary. Magyar Nemzet ran an editorial today arguing Orban did not digest what took place at Bratislava on the issues of quotas and he looked at it “through the lens of the campaign” for the referendum. http://mno.hu/vezercikk/vajudnak-a-hegyek-1362252

MigrantInHungary
Guest

Every minute dedicated to this anti-foreigners campaign is one minute less which could have been dedicated to the mass scale robbery of public assets and EU money by Orban and his clan. That is exactly what this campaign was started for. To distract our attention from the mass scale theft by Orban and his clan.

Bowen
Guest

Boris Johnson:
“Let us suppose you are losing an argument. The facts are overwhelmingly against you, and the more people focus on the reality the worse it is for you and your case. Your best bet in these circumstances is to perform a manoeuvre that a great campaigner describes as “throwing a dead cat on the table, mate”.

That is because there is one thing that is absolutely certain about throwing a dead cat on the dining room table – and I don’t mean that people will be outraged, alarmed, disgusted. That is true, but irrelevant. The key point, says my Australian friend, is that everyone will shout “Jeez, mate, there’s a dead cat on the table!”; in other words they will be talking about the dead cat, the thing you want them to talk about, and they will not be talking about the issue that has been causing you so much grief.”

Guest

But you can’t do this every day and even if you found a new dead animal every day, people would get angry – after a time …

My wife and I talked about Fidesz’ idiocies today and she was wondering:

When Hungary wants anything from the EU in the months/years ahead – what will EU representatives think? Will they oblige happily or will they search for any reason not to grant Hungary’s wishes?

What about foreign companies who are thinking about investing here?

Of course big players like Mercedes can be sure that they get what they want, but SMEs? Will they still be interested in investing in Hungary (or Poland and the other V4s?)

Guest

Today my wife got another “love letter” from O …

Unbelievable! Every Hungarian of average intelligence should realise that this flood of hate-propaganda is so stupid that there can be just one answer:

Don’t go to vote!

If a majority of Hungarians goes to vote and even votes no – then it is a sign that Hungary is lost for democracy, humanity and decency!

My wife and her family members are really angry about this.

PS and a bit OT:
I’ve looked at the first analysis of the vote in Berlin – the Jobbik type AfD got most of its votes from men out of work or in low paying jobs – interestingly the percentage of women voting for them was less than half!

So again this proves that women are more decent, humane and intelligent than men?

Totally OT:

When browsing for “new comments” I’m still getting two copies of every comment – strange, though no big problem obviously.

e-2016
Guest
tappanch
Guest

Election / referendum fraud, anyone ?

There are 10,133 election precincts in Hungary.

Number of vote counters delegated at precinct level by the parties:

Ruling party (Fidesz-KDNP) 13,361
MSzP 3,811
Jobbik 170
LMP 41

DK and PM are not allowed to send people to the local election committees,
because the regime does not recognize them as parliamentary parties, although
they have elected representatives in the Parliament.

http://propeller.hu/itthon/3242161-egyetlen-ellenzeki-tag-sem-lesz-szavazatszamlalo-bizottsagok-tobbsegeben

willi
Guest

The problem is that MSZP simply does not have enough people to send to the committees. Although it is talked about as a potential party to dislodge Fidesz MSZPs position is very much weakened and LMP is not surprisingly non existent outside Budapest. The surprise is Jobbik’s weakness which has a rather wide party network.

webber
Guest

Jobbik, MSZP and the rest are not “weak.” They have only that many observers because they are allowed to have more.
Fidesz, again, is playing dirty.

webber
Guest

“they are NOT allowed to have more” above.
Again, typed too fast.

cee
Guest

What do you mean they are not allowed?

tappanch
Guest

As of September 19 [18] {15},

the number of eligible voters with addresses inside Hungary :
8 002 693 [7 999 233] {7 998 761}

the number of eligible voters with addresses outside Hungary who registered to vote:
274 576 [274 551 ] {269 444}

voter registration requests from people with no address in Hungary:
[331 598] {326 398}

tappanch
Guest

Number of “mailed” votes arriving at the National Election Bureau:

Sep 14: 3
Sep 15: 7182
Sep 16: 5920

Guest

Not too much OT:

Zoltán Kovács, the speaker of Viktor Orbán used harsh words on the EU in Brussels on Monday:

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/fluechtlinge-ungarn-wirft-eu-buergern-verbrechen-vor-a-1112986.html
I’ll try to find this in English …
Here it is:
https://www.euractiv.com/section/justice-home-affairs/news/hungary-readies-attacks-on-juncker-over-migration-referendum/

Guest
Collective punishment is the punishment of a group of people for sins committed by one or more individuals belonging to the group. Those seeking justification for collective punishment can do nothing better than reading The Old Testament. God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for the sins committed by some of their inhabitants. The idea of collective punishment may have a divine origin but nevertheless it is immoral. Despite its incorporation in the Geneva Convention on warfare it has been practiced by all parties in all wars up to date. Whereas divine and military collective punishment tend to be lethal the collective punishment practiced administratively by governments and rulers against their people usually does not kill. It only deprives the target groups of equal access to opportunities. Every town can apply but only those with the right majority receive. The whole town is punished economically if the opposition leads by one vote. This is the Orban government’s way and it is criminal. It is also criminal to threaten with collective punishment: The school will be closed and everybody will lose their jobs if one teacher strikes. Vote no or we will send you rapists with infectious diseases. Crimes against humanity are many… Read more »
Guest

What about the difficult concept of ‘joint enterprise’?

Surely the people who vote ‘no’ in Orban’s grubby little Threatenerendum are culpable too?

Guest

Everybody who go and wote will be collectively punished by Fate.

Guest

Why I’m Investing $500 Million in Migrants
by
Soros

http://www.wsj.com/articles/why-im-investing-500-million-in-migrants-1474344001

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