Viktor Orbán will take another stab at solving the refugee crisis

Although not much can be read in the media outside of Hungary about a conference that will take place tomorrow in Vienna, the Orbán government has high hopes for it. Attending the conference will be German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Austrian Chancellor Christian Kern, Austrian Foreign Minister Sebastian Kurz, and Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán, in addition to the prime ministers of Balkan states along the migrant route. Although in Bratislava Orbán intimated that he had something to do with convening the gathering and accordingly portfolio.hu reported from Bratislava that “Orbán convoked a new summit” at which “he will try to change Brussels’ suicidal and naïve immigration policy,” in fact, as his wont, Orbán took credit for something someone else did. It was actually Chancellor Kern who proposed the extraordinary mini-summit.

He may not have come up with the idea for the conference, but Orbán thinks he can effect its outcome. The Orbán government holds cabinet meetings every Thursday, after which János Lázár, his chief-of-staff, meets the press. Viktor Orbán apparently chairs these meetings very efficiently and it almost never happens that they run overtime. This time it did. Lázár was half an hour late. The topic was tomorrow’s “mini-summit” in Vienna. Orbán is obviously preparing for the occasion with more than usual care.

A day before the cabinet meeting Orbán gave a lengthy interview to Origo, the popular news site that was acquired recently by a loyal oligarch of the Fidesz camp. A large chunk of the interview was devoted to convincing Hungarians that the referendum is a national issue that has nothing to do with party politics. Linked to this question was a general discussion of his ideas on solving the refugee crisis. I think it’s fair to assume that Orbán’s remarks during the interview give us an inkling of the kind of position he will take at the Viennese gathering.

He said that Hungary’s reaction to the arrival of the migrants was correct from the very beginning when the country confined the migrants to refugee camps. But the European Commission and the European Court of Justice made the wrong decision when “they decided that the Hungarian treatment of the refugees was illegal.” This is actually what other countries should have done but didn’t. Now countries like France and Germany have to scatter their migrants all over the countryside instead of locating them in a few large camps under lock and key.

The migrants, Orbán continued, should have been prevented from entering the European Union in the first place. The fault lies with Germany which made the decision to welcome the migrants, and now “German politicians tell us to solve their problems.” Surely, the dispersion of migrants all over the European Union is “an inhumane proposal” because unless “one ties the person to a tree,” he “will return to Germany anyway.”

So, what is the solution? Orbán takes the position that “those who came [to the European Union] illegally must be rounded up and removed. Not to other countries but outside of the European Union. The question is where. Here comes our Schengen 2.0 action plan which stipulates that large refugee camps be built guarded by armed security forces and financed by the European Union. Anyone who came here illegally must be returned to [these camps]. From there they can apply for entry and if there is a country ready to receive them they can come. Until then they have to stay in that big camp outside of the European Union. That can be on an island or perhaps somewhere in North Africa, but the security and accommodations of this camp must be guaranteed by the European Union in its own interest.”

Viktor Orbán's solution

Viktor Orbán’s solution

In the interview Orbán stuck to this simplistic and totally impractical solution even when the rather subservient editor-in-chief of origo.hu brought up the difficulty of moving millions of people already in the Union to what are basically “internment camps” under armed guard. Orbán’s retort was that the only reason countries with large numbers of newly arrived migrants have been unable to deport them is because “there is no unified governmental will.” If there were such will in all countries, “this morally and humanly difficult task could be accomplished. But if we don’t expel them from the Union they will stay. Once they stay the request will come to take over some of the refugees” and “thus the trouble will be shared by all.” In brief, countries with large numbers of refugees–Germany, Sweden, France, and Austria–should expel them. Otherwise the whole continent is doomed.

After the Bratislava summit many people were surprised to hear that Orbán, despite results that met some of his demands, was dissatisfied with the summit’s outcome. Commentators, including me, almost uniformly interpreted Orbán’s harsh words as a message to the Hungarian public poised to vote on a referendum on compulsory quotas. Sure, we all said, he couldn’t go home and tell his loyalists that the Bratislava summit was a great success from his point of view. But looking at what Orbán’s “solution” to the refugee crisis is, I think his disappointment was genuine. Now he hopes that something can be achieved tomorrow in Vienna. After all, Merkel will have to face politicians who more or less share Orbán’s views on the refugee crisis. Perhaps further pressure can modify Merkel’s views, because Germany is the key to solving the crisis to Orbán’s satisfaction.

I’m curious what kind of package Orbán has prepared for this meeting and how far he will be able push Merkel who, in Orbán’s eyes, is responsible for the whole mess. Although the Austrians at the moment take a rather harsh position on the endless flow of refugees and would like to stop them from entering the European Union in the first place, I don’t think they would be ready to expel all the newly arrived refugees and gather them in a camp outside the EU under the watchful eye of armed guards.

September 23, 2016
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Doy
Guest

You cowardly bitch, why do yo not dare mention Orban’s model that he has expressedly said, that is Australia?

Clive Mercer
Guest

I think your man in Hungary is an inhuman monster, who hides behind his so called Christianity, but in reality hasn’t even the beginning of an understanding about the faith that that he professes to believe in. Love thy neighbour as thyself Mr Orban, not love thy self and your love of power above everything and everyone else.

Doy
Guest

There are many “inhuman monsters” in Hungarian political and social life. They, by some coincidence, tend to be left-liberal Jews, degrading people they dislike as “inhuman monsters.” Inhuman monsters deserve to be burned. Are they not?

e-2016
Guest

Interestingly, the author of the Balogh Blog is free of prejudices of the left and right.

It is a rare achievement in the age when the majority of humanity is still victim of various lies.

This blog is an exceptional value.

I highly appreciate the author’s efforts.

Observer
Guest

Clive,
He is a little fascist dictator., of the less educted kind. The rest follows.

Steven Colman
Guest

The person who referred to you as the cowardly bitch is certainly a Hungarian. Correspondents who call others in this way cannot be anything other. They have not been taught to have a civil argument or even a discussion. The standard in Hungary seems to be that if you do not agree then you must be an idiot and often much worse.

Doy
Guest

The person your “correspondents” in this blog treat as a vermin, is a Hungarian, elected freely and democratically by the Hungarian voters. I am glad that he will be elected again and again, although , in many respects, he is deficient in quite a few areas. However, contrasted to the “heroes” of this blog, he is the only alternative, and the Hungaria electorate understands it.

Doy
Guest

It is so easy to capture the spirit of this blog with the few comments here. If I write the adjective “coward”, there is immediately a hue and a cry. But not against the commenter who equates the Hungarian PM to a human monster. Your hatred is the real reason that you will never have a leader in Hungary that you will like. Hungarians have become finally saturated with your bottomless hatred against anything or anybody that is not left-liberal. Hungarians have come to understand that it is not a happenchance that all the protagonists of anti-Hungarian crusades in Hungary are left-liberal Jews.

Observer
Guest

Cretinous fidesznik.

Doy
Guest

Poor Eva, when she wakes up to see that my comments have somehow seeped in. When she will get rid of them, she will not forget to use the word “hate” or one of its variants, as its use is de rigeur by left/neoliberal Jews nowadays.

Clive Mercer
Guest

Poor “DOY”, those of us who hold very unfavourable views of Victor Orban and his approach to politics generally, and not least to the humanitarian crisis of migration, are not necessarily of the ethnic/genetic/political persuasion that you so irrationally despise . I wonder, would you be proud, or irritated, to be described as a person with “Nazi/Fascist” tendencies ?
Nations can be hoodwinked into supporting the most unsuitable leaders if they have a charismatic message, that resonates in particular political or cultural circumstance. One only has to look at Germany in the years following the 1914/18 war, at Mugabe in what was Rhodesia, the list is long and sad.
Be careful “DOY” of the derision and bile that drips from your fingers onto your keyboard. Think first, and learn to respect the views of those who may not share yours. Remember also, that the majority opinion, is rarely right; witness to that, the recent decision by Britain to exit Europe. But that’s another discussion irrelevant to this one.

Janos Mandarin
Guest

Mercer, how can you be of “ethnic/genetic persuasion”? If you are so primitive to believe in such pre-determined “persuasions”, why do not you go to the nearest pub, but not an Irish one. It should be a Moldavian. By persuasion.

Guest

Mercer wrote “ethnic/genetic/political persuation”. Makes sense.

Guest

Doy’s comments are Fidesz’s soul laid bare.

Janos Mandarin
Guest

Yes. Its soul is haunting you here as well. Get frightened.

pappp
Guest

I wouldn’t underestimate how mushy Merkel is. She is not tough at all and happy to compromise. She will either ignore Orban or be open to his ideas. I can’t imagine she would tell Orban to stop being so hyperactive wit this and start actually governing and stealing less.

Guest

Pappp, do you see that “Tiszta Magyar” Doy? That creature shows the real face of many Hungarians!
Everything is there, xenophobia, antisemitism, misogyny, wanting to kill what it hates …
The creature probably had an orgasm writing this …

Re O’s idea:

Why does this remind me of the “concentration camps”?

Are Fideszniks really that stupid – or do they want to get back to this idea?

pappp
Guest

I think you’re asking to the wrong person, I also hate trolls like Doy. But him being just one of many such people one has to try to account for their existence. People aren’t born racist, misogynistic etc. so the question is how they become those or better still what pathology or problem do these phenomena/symptoms really veil? Calling them stupid trolls will lead you nowhere because it’s not him, but the millions like him are the real problem.

heinrich vichtern
Guest

you’re right… millions of trolls… what pathology…. they must be… exterminated, right? Didn’t you try that already in in 1905, 1918-1920 then again 1939-1991?

Clive Mercer
Guest

Merkel, contrary to your opinion is undoubtedly an astute and humanitarian leader. If Europe, indeed the World, was to follow her example, what a better place it would be for everyone.

heinrich vichtern
Guest

after merkel dies, my guess is the next generation will leave less of her grave than the past ones did of hitler’s

webber
Guest

I don’t believe Merkel will be open to Orban’s ideas. I do believe she will ignore him and his nastiness. It’s what she has done up to now.

webber
Guest

OT Watch Ukraine. Watch what Orban and Szijjarto say about it.

pappp
Guest

Janos Szeky wrote a good article in ÉS about local investigative journalists and oligarchs, a kind of reply to a New Yorker article which was published not so long ago on the same topic and which apparently wasn’t too well researched.

webber
Guest

Could you post it? Truly interested. Just heard something from someone who should know, and things at the moment do not look good. Hopefully that person was wrong.

pappp
Guest

I read the paper version of ÉS (Széky János: Luxuslakás az Ivan Franko utcában) and have no scanner. The original article which needs a serious update now is this: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/09/05/reforming-ukraine-after-maidan

webber
Guest

Too dated, I am afraid. I am referring to recent events.

BMO
Guest

Hungary, a country that for a time really served as the proud bastion of the medieval West, has now become a bastion of nonsense, populism and anti-everything. Wondering how the coming generations will appraise your country in 2120. How will the textbooks label the “twenties” of the previous century ?

heinrich vichtern
Guest

either great or terrible. but the latter only if those textbooks will be written by mullahs. and, at that point, it won’t really matter.

Guest
London Calling! Ok! So when we’ve sorted out Brexit (!) we’ll round up 500,000 Hungarian economic migrants – and 700,000 Polish economic migrants and put them in refugee camps? Then let them out in gangs (preferably with a ball and chain on their ankle – to stop the men raping our women) to ‘fostered’ work at a £200 monthly wage? (No € equivalent here, we don’t want to go anywhere near it!). Viktorlae Orbanescu! Our Saviour Hero – Oh Omniscient one! Alleyluya. Only need to round up the Jews, Roma, Muslims, Asians, Africans, FRENCH!! Goodness! We’ll be so empty that we’ll have no one to run our factories, shops, health service…… Right back to Viktorlae Orbanescu….. How did you solve that one, Oh! Omnipotent One? Oh yes – promise 1m jobs; send out a fatuous slogan ‘Britain is Performing Better’; devise another fatuous slogan : ‘Britain will be the engine that drives Europe out of recession’ yes, fab that one! Oh Yes – put it about that ‘Britain is doing it to save Europe’ – yes that’s great! Sort of when the doctor says this is hurting me more than it will hurt you, sort of thing! When the press… Read more »
Guest

My suggestion of ’rounding up’ ‘foreigners’ in Britain was meant to evoke the wartime solution of rounding up possible German, Japanese and other nationalities who were then kept in internment camps for fear of being Nazi sympathisers – and used as ‘forced’ labour for the duration of the war, for example in Liverpool and on the Isle of Man.

Many had an interaction with the locals and became trusted – and some fell in love and stayed for the rest of their lives.

Of course, the other side had the concentration camps.

And yes – Orban’s attitude and treatment of the refugees – and the rightward move throughout Europe is exactly how Nazism began.

We just need a Brussels ‘Beer Hall Putsch’ and we’re well on our way, Herr Führer und Reichskanzler Orban.

Guest

I also forgot to add

Hajgra Angõlicum

to my original post!

(Why did you bother, Charlie?)

heinrich vichtern
Guest

you need not worry about British women and, as regards your women, no one will touch them.

Guest

Once again:

Am I the only one who has to think of “concentration camps” when reading about O’s ideas?
And the comments by our new trolls fortify that idea …

Clive Mercer
Guest

wolfi7777, concentration camps have been very much on my mind also.

Guest

I’ve got the feeling that Eva might have to block some idiots on here to stop the comments section becoming like kuruc.hu

webber
Guest

Hopefully she’ll take down a bunch of comments and even the responses.

The swearing alone is awful.

dos929
Guest

On one hand I am deeply saddened by rhetoric expressed by those fascist comments, but on the other I am glad that by their primitive arguments they proved that Eva is right. And congratulations to her for not falling into the trap by engaging in a fruitless argument with these primitive Orban fanatics….

Observer
Guest

The sad truth is that until the Democratic EU adopts an effective solution the populists will ride the wave of concern and surge ahead.
The issue has taken much broader significance – it concerns European democracy.

Guest

Re: ‘European democracy’

If a commentator and other adherents to a particular politic is an indication we can get idea of how Euro democracy will continue on under the circumstances. Democracy with an inhuman face.

webber
Guest

OT: Earthquake reported in Ukraine and Romania. Anyone know anything? Could be in areas with ethnic Hungarians. No telling from preliminary reports.

Also – and this is the first, and perhaps last time I will say this: Szijjarto got something right. Bosnia is starting heat up. I hope we can get through the year without another war there and a greater war in the Ukraine ( there already is a war going on, still, in Ukraine – soldiers are killed every day).

Istvan
Guest
There is an interesting article in Népszabadság about János Lázár, the Minister heading the Prime Minister’s Office and a supposed debate on mandatory quotas he claims would take place in European Parliament in committee. Lázár further argued regardless of the words of the President of the European Commission, it wants the quota. See http://nol.hu/kulfold/lazar-janos-valamit-felreertett-1633205 Cecilia Karin Maria Wikström an MEP liberal and a staunch supporter of refugee rights denied that there was any impending action on this issue in the European Parliament. Szabolcs Takács, State Secretary for EU affairs at the Prime Minister’s Office tried to make nice with Germany over migration issues last week at a Berlin meeting of a working group concerned with Hungary of the German Council on Foreign Relations (DGAP). See http://www.kormany.hu/en/prime-minister-s-office/news/hungary-s-criticism-is-not-levelled-at-germany Takács attempted to defend comments Orban made last week on setting up more fixed detention centers based on models used in the USA and Australia noted by Eva in her post. As readers of this blog will know I am a critic of the US detention centers which are run by private contractors for the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency. I am not proud of how those detention facilities have been run and… Read more »
webber
Guest

I doubt Trump even knows who Viktor Orban is. If he does, I’m sure he couldn’t care less what Orban has said or done over the past year.

Guest

Would be interesting if he knew about the Warsaw Pact. Hope he won’t think it was a consortium to sell Polish kielbasa. You know it’s tough around here for anybody to know who are and what is Eastern Europe. Including Prof and some posters here there could only about 25 people in the States who can see what VO is trying to pull off….;-)…Unfortunately Magyarorszag is a political backwater.

Istvan
Guest

I suspect there are some American Hungarian racists who are also Trump supporters who have informed that campaign of the wonders of the Orban regime. Let’s recall that David Duke a leader of the KKK endorsed Trump and also visited Hungary before see http://hungarianfreepress.com/2016/05/06/trump-csurka-orban-and-david-duke/ .

Guest

And if I might say it can be going on vice versa. I will go on to say that it is difficult to believe that that the US can firmly understand and fathom Central European politics now in this postward period.

If DT (no not Donny Trump …it’s Delirium Tremens) becomes POTUS I would surmise that US foreign policy there would go to uncharted waters where the potential and capability of US influence would be reduced simply because of a lack of knowledge. A POTUS ‘flying by the seat of his pants’ is deadly in the CE political game now. Mistakes and errors can be costly especially with territories and political initiatives all over Europe. What we see over there now is a cauldron being stirred slowly by many cooks. Who knows what can come out if it?

heinrich vichtern
Guest

Where will you go if the Donald gets elected? What’s next? China?

tappanch
Guest

More corruption at the expense of the generous & negligent European Union. The Manpower Ministry has bought the same useless “educational” software for billions of forints, for the second time.

http://www.blikk.hu/aktualis/belfold/ketszer-fizettek-ki-a-sulis-szoftvereket/5f2yrr0

Guest

O/T Szijjártó making an idiot of himself at the UN General Assembly:

“He added that Hungary is “a Christian country” and expressed disappointment that the International Criminal Court has failed to respond to his country’s requests to prosecute the Islamic State group for its persecution of Christians. He said because of the U.N.’s failure to act his country had developed a special secretariat to monitor the persecution of Christians around the world and work to help them.”

What does he mean?

(Fox ALERT!! It’s Fox News – who fox news!)

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/09/23/hungary-says-migration-spreads-terror.html

webber
Guest

He meant what he said, sort of. Hungary’s government developed a organization to monitor the persecution of Christians around the world (which is a genuine concern in China, in many Muslim countries, and in India). It wasn’t a secret, though. The government announced it recently.
What that organization will do is anyone’s guess. I suppose they’ll have an electronic file of news and reports on the persecution of Christians – like clipping files before the digital age.

Guest

The ‘special Secretariat’ that monitors Christians….”and work to help them” sounds Global and expensive – not to mention ‘Roman Catholic’.

And legally involved? With hostage negotiations?

In many languages?

Hungary?

webber
Guest

No, not Roman Catholic. Any Christians – Orthodox, Protestant, whatever.

Prosecution of the Islamic State seems a bit hard to me while Islamic State people are being killed by every means possible – but it’s not a bad idea. The Islamic State has committed crimes against humanity, including horrific murders of people for their religious beliefs (slaughter of Christians, Shiites, Druze, and Yazidis – men, women and children killed indiscriminately)

webber
Guest

You might be interested to learn that there already is a UK NGO covering persecution of Christians.
There are also American NGOs which cover this, and human rights organizations world wide, of course, cover persecution of anyone for their religious beliefs, regardless.
So what the new Hungarian organization will be able to contribute is anyone’s guess.
Here’s the British organization
http://www.opendoorsuk.org/

The Pope recently said that Christians are the most at risk people in the world now – most likely to be murdered for their faith. I don’t know about the world as a whole, but I believe that with regard to the Middle East he is right. Anyway, the Pope ought to know (and no, he does not mean just Catholics – he means Christians of all denominations). There have also been murders of Christians in India since the new nationalist government came to power.

Guest

Thanks. I have been aware that, for example, so-called IS (which thankfully appears to be getting smaller) have held whole Yazidi villages hostage – but what can country’s do?

Except maybe interfere in other country’s affairs?

(Yazidis predate Christianity!)

They can hardly go out and evangelise?

Sounds unrealistic to me – or the province of the religions – but hardly a government level initiative – unless you’re the Vatican?

Guest

I do not think that ‘secretariat’ of Christianity will do anything to ameliorate the plight of Christian persecution around the world. If the Christian government practiced what they preach they would order efforts to concentrate their goals in developing more of an ecumenical organization towards the defense and continuation of religious pluralism and persecution. If the country follows the trail of liberties well that’s the platform they should be on, eh? What kind of a country indeed are we seeing?

The secretariat would appear to be lace curtain dressing to hide the grimy dirt on those stained glass windows government Christians peer out of. They make a travesty of belief. Perhaps Mr. Szijjarto should ideally stick to government not religious affairs. If this ‘secretariat’ is a Magyar horse it won’t run.

webber
Guest

Given that a high proportion of Syrian refugees who passed through Hungary are Christian (est. over 1 m. Christians have fled from Syria), you might think their first priority would be to stop demonizing refugees, and start acting in a Christian manner.

Guest

Well there you go. Like you I cannot comprehend the thinking. That is why I personally take no stock in how this government ‘manages’ very difficult problems.

In the interest of cooperation to find and propose solutions, Europe can listen to Orban but they better keep an eye out in which way they are facing. He could be a train-wreck getting ready to happen in his approaches to problem-solving. And as for luck he is making Europe walk under a ladder with the black cat going by.

The current problems especially the migrant is an issue that will be with Europe for decades and decades hence. This needs deep thinking not some off the cuff locking up bs or such verbiage as ‘never’. This shows a paucity of thought.

And right now the world seems to have never gotten so tightened and shortened since VO came around. The ‘toll-man’ of the globe. Halt and vigyaz!

heinrich vichtern
Guest

He’s protecting Hungarian Christians or, to dispense, with excess verbiage – Hungarians

heinrich vichtern
Guest

Negotiations will be nonverbal “Netanyahu style”

Guest

I have always thought that the migrant crisis has always been fed by Magyar fuel from its fires of hatred. Magyar strategy has seem to be in continual opposition with an ‘in your face’ diplomacy. The fact that some commentators air their comments here with such vituperation makes it evident that they cannot investigate the issues with a judicious rationality. They attack the ‘plague’ but they themselves seep with the sickness to the detriment of the entire continent. How Europe gets out if this I don’t know. Not sure doctors can fix this since it looks like we are looking at problems inherent in character, values and soul within the country.

PALIKA
Guest
Unfortunately too many people have been getting very excited. We are living through a period of instability and some might say turmoil in the world. The quality of the leaders whose task it is to sort it out is below par. There are few outlets for expressing sane opinions or to have informed debate with the decision makers. Hysteria pervades most discussions. Look at this blog for example. You can multiply it by the millions of social media outlets which are unmoderated. If you are exposed to a relentless diet of intemperate expressions of half baked arguements you either join the rest or preferably switch off. If we stand back for a moment and calm down we would acknowledge that these are no ordinary times. People when exposed to hysteria need calming influences. Some nations are more mature than others. Some are more experienced in dealing with issues thrown up in a calm way than others. Some countries are victims of exploitation by politicians and/ or the media moguls and/or the oligarchs whose wealth has grown to terrifying proportions. No wonder the migrants issue is raising genuine concerns. We see the prospect of a Trump presidency at the same time… Read more »
tappanch
Guest

Is this Orban’s order, who is panicking that the turnout will not reach 50% on October 2?

Blast near the Academy of Music tonight:

http://444.hu/2016/09/24/robbanas-hallatszott-a-koruton

PALIKA
Guest
No doubt the facts will emerge which may or may not approximate to the truth. If it was a terrorist attack it shows that terrorist attacks occur even in countries with no migrants. Our principal immediate objective must me a conclusive victory over IS and other terror organisations. The Queen of Jordan gave an interview on CNN in which she said, inter alia, that the terrorist have no knowledge of Islam but simply cherry pick to assemble a heap of propaganda to justify their crimes. Syria and Libia are both places where peace is an urgent requirement. Since the first casualty of war is truth it is difficult to know how much of what we are told is true. Now Russia is blamed for upsetting the chances of lasting cease fire in Syria. But Putin’s backing for Assad is likely to bring about Assad’s military victory and a restoration of order. No doubt there are possible replacement regimes that can be installed in Syria which would be more to the ideological taste of the White House, as now occupied, but would they deliver stability? Stability in the Middle East is difficult to achive with the conflict being imflamed by the… Read more »
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