The moral and financial cost of the Hungarian hate campaign

Today Publicus Intézet came out with another poll indicating that most likely fewer than 4,136,313 people, the number necessary to have a valid referendum, will cast their votes for a meaningless question on “compulsory” migrant quotas that would allegedly mean the eventual forcible settlement of tens of thousands of refugees in Hungary against the will of its inhabitants. Publicus conducted two polls a week apart. The one released today shows 8% fewer people intend to participate in the referendum than a week ago.

What would the fate of Hungary be if the people don’t support the government in its heroic efforts to save Hungary and Christian Europe from the Muslim hordes? Zsolt Bayer, in an opinion piece today, describes the dire consequences of population explosion in Africa and Asia and Europe’s significant population loss in the past and most likely in the future. “We, the European natives, European white people” are threatened. What is waiting for Europeans is “complete annihilation.” It is just a question of time before “European, Christian, white civilization will disappear forever.” Perhaps Europe, the continent Bayer imagines, already no longer exists because if one goes to Vienna, Munich, Rome, Naples one can only weep. “Go to the steps of Sacré Coeur where blacks who overrun everything sell their junk….  Our gorgeous Europe of yesteryear can today be found only in Prague, Cracow, Warsaw, Bratislava, Kosice, Sopron and Eger. Because we are Europe today. Europe was driven back to the despised, ridiculed, vilified Central Europe. This is the Europe we must defend. At any price.”

This racist rant is what is pounded into the heads of Hungarian adults and children. Viktor Orbán shamelessly announced the other day that without his government’s heroic efforts to keep the refugees out of Hungary Europe would have fallen already. He has already spent incredible sums on building fences along the Serbian-Croatian-Slovenian borders and employs 10,000 soldiers and policemen to guard them. In addition, in the last half a year he has spent a fortune on a hate campaign against the “migrants.” But, if we are to believe Bayer, when it comes to the defense of white Europe price doesn’t matter. So, let’s see just how much money Orbán has spent on the lead-up to this meaningless referendum.

The invasion of Europe according to Fidesz propaganda

The invasion of Europe according to Fidesz propaganda

According to estimates by atlatszo.hu, an NGO devoted to unearthing corruption and political wrongdoing, the Hungarian government so far has spent 15 billion forints or €48.6 million on this hate-filled campaign in a country of 9.9 million inhabitants. That is more than the €42.7 spent on both sides (stay and leave) of the Brexit campaign, where the organizers had to reach 64.1 million people. So the Hungarian government spent €5.00 per person on its single-sided campaign while the Brits spent only €0.66. Atlatszo.hu thus concludes that the Hungarian campaign cost the taxpayers 7.3 times more than the British campaigns did.

There is another way at looking at the numbers. The Hungarian government estimated that the upkeep of one refugee for a year would cost 1.56 million forints or €4,705 but the generous EU promised €6,000 instead.  If we divide the €48.6 million spent on the campaign by the 1,294 refugees Hungary would have been obliged to take, we arrive at the incredible figure of €37,642 per person. Or, in other words, about 7.5 years of their maintenance was spent on billboards, posters, and pamphlets filled with fear-mongering and incitement against the refugees, much of which went to loyal Fidesz oligarchs.

The greatest calamity of course is not the money spent but the damage done to the soul of the Hungarian people. A year ago, when refugees were pouring into the country, between 7,000 and 8,000 a day, anti-refugee sentiment was relatively moderate, somewhere between 45% and 55%. Today this figure is close to 85%-90%. It is heartbreaking to hear that schoolchildren call each other “migrants” as a pejorative term. One nine-year-old asked his mother whether he could carry a pocket knife when the migrants come. And a little girl who couldn’t even pronounce the word “migráns” envisaged being killed when they arrive in Hungary.

Here are some bizarre official and semi-official pronouncements on the refugee question. A well-known rock star claimed that “it’s 1,000% sure that they will rape all the women. They came here to occupy this land but they don’t want to work. I will not dare to let my children and grandchildren outside.” The deputy prime minister, Zsolt Semjén, came out with this brilliant observation: “If we make a mistake now it can never be remedied. If many hundreds of thousands of Muslims come here we will never be able to get rid of them, and our children will attend school with girls with hijabs and we will have to live under the threat of Sharia law.” In Nógrád County an organization sent out a short message that said “we hold on to our pork, good wine, and a little pálinka,” which naturally are threatened by the migrants.

I don’t know how long it will take to undo the damage Viktor Orbán’s political ambitions have inflicted on the country. I’m afraid it may take decades, especially if this man is allowed to continue his dictatorial rule for many more years.

October 1, 2016
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Brian McLean
Guest

Anything that completely annihilates Zsolt Bayer can’t be all bad.

Observer
Guest

Not at all, if the whole dumb, aggressive and retrograde “true Hungarian” (mély magyar) set perishes too.

dos929
Guest

It is a great pity that contents of the HS do not reach the people of Hungary, and the remaining Hungarian language media such the ÉS and the 168 óra have a rather limited circulation. Thus the vast majority of the population is thriving on the FIDESZ propaganda only. As to the outcome of the referendum its true results perhaps do not matter to Orban, as they can proclaim any outcome whatsoever since all the tools and means of the vote counting is in their soiled hands. And even if the referendum fails Orban ‘wins’ because he managed to destroy even the remaining humanity of the population at large. The same nation that once stood up against the Russian occupation, and the same nation that was embraced by the western democracies and took in its refugees in 1956, is no more,,,

Király
Guest

Zsolt Bayer: “We, the European natives, European white people” are threatened. What is waiting for Europeans is “complete annihilation.” It is just a question of time before “European, Christian, white civilization will disappear forever.”

Growing up in the ethnic stew of Cleveland, Ohio in the 1950s, I can’t tell you how many times I heard Hungarians called “blasphemous Asian barbarians.” The Supreme Fascist, as Paul Erdős termed God, certainly does have an overdeveloped of irony.

Istvan
Guest

Growing up in Chicago’s American Hungarian community in the late 1950s and early 1960s I also heard numerous members of our community use the “N” word for African Americans and the pejorative “spick” for Hispanics. This usage of racist language was common in my own family and even at church social events. Such language was also common in the Ukrainian, the Serb, Polish, and Romanian communities in Chicago. How could racism not be common in these communities when there were so many fascists hidden as anti-communists leading those communities?

I will say Jews were rarely discussed during that time and I had no idea there were even Hungarian speaking Jews living in Chicago or grocery stores with the name Hungarian Kosher in them only a few miles from where I grew up http://www.hungariankosher.com/ So our approach to the Holocaust was simply not to discuss the Jews. That too was racist.

Guest

Just a comment on Istvan’s.

At times I could think Magyarorszag would have a much much better feel for the ‘other’ if they’d would have experienced the same as we did in our urban enclaves growing up. Personally I had the full experience meeting and interacting with classmates in grade, high school and university who had much different faiths, race and ethnicity. I was right into the ‘melting pot’.And indeed it could get fiery. New York was a tough town as I had to deal with some things especially being from a family of Magyar ‘immigrants’.

It would not be honest to say everyone always got along but we managed for the most part to forge relationships. From that I have always thought that my earliest background gave me insight into understanding POV’s from another different perspective. In the case of the Magyarorszag today that looks to be an option that has been closed for quite awhile.

Istvan
Guest

Yes some of the American Hungarian children of my generation went to intergrated schools, myself included. But many more moved out of Chicago to largely racially segregated suburbs and unfortunately followed in the footsteps of their parents in terms of racial intolerance.

webber
Guest

I would think (hope!) that time in active military service would also do a thing or two to eliminate racism. When you know you can count on the man to your right to risk his life for yours, I suppose the color of his skin does not matter too much.

Istvan
Guest

Webber in theory we saw only Army green, but the truth is about 74% of the Officer Corp are white. Whereas, among enlisted soliders about 67% are white. The majority of officers are born in southern states. But overall the Army is more racially equalitarian than society as a whole in my opinion. There is a huge racial education gap in the Army and as it becomes more and technically driven whites have an advantage.

Observer
Guest

“…the damage done to the soul of the Hungarian people…”. by the Orban touch, similar to the Midas one, but, instead of gold, turning everything into something darker and much softer.

And not only the soul is damaged.

Everithing the Orban’s greedy, primitive and totally immoral regime did/does undermines the future of this nation : eg.
embezzling the development funds,
corrupting the economic/business and legal environment,
robbing and destroying their pension system,
emaciating the health care one,
debilitating the education system and the cultural life.
Realized or not, the Orban regime is the worst enemy of the nation and it is sucking its blood and sapping its future right now.

Observer
Guest

All of the above said, however, the European governments have presented no credible answers, if any, to the problems of population growth, mass migration and integration, which Zs.B’s hateful and deceptive piece highlights.
Unless they take initiative and are seen to act in the right direction the turf will be occupied by populists, extremists or plain quacks, with grave consequences, witness Hungary, Poland , Trump.. Do or be damned.

Member

It was never about refugees, it was always about race/racism. Zsolt Bayer can stick it up! Why does he not write about the thousands of other than whites, his friend Orban sold Hungarian citizenship too? Isn’t he worried that “Hungary” is sold to the “lowest bidder”, to those non-whites who cannot afford to purchase real investment to true European countries? Bayer, Lazar, Orban anther gang are phooey, and every and each person who buys into their BS are plain stupid. I am sorry to say this, but it is this simple. Bayer should clap his hands and be happy that anyone would want to settle into the county they made Hungary to become! As far as I am concerned anyone who can, just wants to get out, and not because the “refugees” but because the likes of Bayer and Orban the two idiots who economically and morally bankrupted the country.

Member

Coincidentally from Magyar Nemzet it turns out that Bayer’s best friend, Orban is selling out Hungarian citizenship for half price to Chinese “investors”. The Chinese page of Hungary State Special Debt Fund (HSSDF) openly advertises this option. For about 130,000 Euro / person you can get Hungarian citizenship. Hey Bayer!!! This is how much the wholesome white Hungary worth to you and your buddies! 130,00 Euros/ Chines, Japanese, Arabs, Russians, whoever! Anyone but refugees! Bayer and Orban are scum of the Earth!
http://mno.hu/gazdasag/letelepedesi-kotveny-fel-aron-1364253

Observer
Guest

The arrogance and the size of this is really shocking !

Guest

Zsolt B and all the acolytes as spectres and wraiths from the land of Mordor.
A lost man leading a host into an abyss.
Give it time for the shrieks will perhaps come if
the rage continues.

‘Hope not ever to see Heaven. I have come to lead you to the other shore; into eternal darkness; into fire and into ice’

The Inferno

LwiiH
Guest
webber
Guest

Watch the numbers of the mail in ballots from Romania, Serbia, etc. If a higher percentage of Transylvanian Hungarians than Hungarians in Hungary vote on this issue that affects only Hungarians in Hungary, that is a smoking gun. That will be indirect proof of cheating. There is no way that a higher percentage of Transylvanian Hungarians (or Hungarians from Vojvodina, or from Transcarpathia, etc.) could care about this. If this anomaly appears, Fideszniks might try to explain it away by saying those people are more patriotic than Hungarians in Hungary – but nobody will buy that. And if they make that argument the opposition should immediately point out that Fidesz has just implied that the majority of Hungarian citizens are traitors (hazaárulók).

Weather – cloudy, fairly warm, and no rain yet. Ideal conditions for Fidesz.

Guest

The weather is not too good, just 14 Celsius and we might have some rain – after the sunny days of last week people will tend to stay at home maybe?

Not too much OT:

I found a quote by Stephen King on Trump – could this also be applied to people like Bayer and other Fideszniks?


Texas may go for Trump, but they have a saying for guys like him: ‘He’s so low, he could put on a top-hat and crawl under a rattlesnake.’ http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lists/hollywoods-25-powerful-authors-2016-931979/item/jk-rowling-25-powerful-authors-931951

webber
Guest

Unfortunately that is ideal weather for an election. If it is rainy, especially if it is a cold windy day, people stay indoors. If it is warm and sunny, people go on excursions.
It is precisely when it is overcast, but not rainy that people are most likely to vote.
As to the temperature – it is getting warmer by the minute, there doesn’t seem to be any wind, and it is comfortable outside if you are wearing a jacket or sweater.

Guest

Here in Zala county near Hévíz it just started to rain …

This afternoon my wife has a date with her hairdresser – yes that woman works around the clock to make enough for a living …

I’ll pass by the election place in Hévíz and watch out!

tappanch
Guest

Extrapolation of the final turnout from the 9 AM turnout of 7.25%:

7.25/9.50*61.73% = 47.11%

tappanch
Guest

The estimate above was based on the numbers of the 2014 election.

Extrapolation of the final turnout using the 2008 referendum (1 euro copay/doctor visit rejected by the voters) numbers:

7.25/7.66*50.51% = 47.81%

tappanch
Guest

11 o’clock updated turnout predictions:

from the 2014 election: 16.37/23.23*61.73% = 43.50%

from the 2008 referendum: 16.37/18.69*50.51% = 44.24%

tappanch
Guest

Highest turnout: county BÁCS-KISKUN 18.53%
Lowest turnout: county BORSOD-ABAÚJ-ZEMPLÉN 14.61%

Budapest: 13.13%

tappanch
Guest

Budapest districts, where the average exceeds the Budapest average:

1, 2, 12, 15
17, 18, 21, 22, 23.

tappanch
Guest

1 PM updated turnout predictions:

from the 2014 election: 23.56/34.33*61.73% = 42.36%
from the 2008 referendum: 23.56/26.92*50.51% = 44.21%

Highest turnout:
Lowest turnout:
Budapest: 21.31%, district 1: 24.79%, district 8: 16.09%

Jean P.
Guest

“The greatest calamity of course is not the money spent but the damage done to the soul of the Hungarian people.”

The bottom layer of the Hungarian soul seems to be racism and xenophobia. Christianity is frosting on the top and a postulate in the Constitution. An immense task to put the Hungarian soul on a solid Christian basis awaits the “historical” churches. They should begin now with themselves. Seek guidance in the gospel. No racism there.

Guest

It’s not only Hungarians – look at what’s going on in East Germany!

Seems to me that almost 50 years of the “Communist” regime have done a lot to destroy people’s souls,

Guest

London Calling!

Let’s just get one thing straight?

Hungary is NOT A CHRISTIAN COUNTRY.

It neither follows any Biblical principals nor worships in an organised way.

The Roman Catholic Church, particularly, doesn’t follow its ‘Shepherd’ sitting in the Vatican and doesn’t follow the Bible in dispensing compassion or pastoral care.

The parable of the Good Samaritan, if anything, goes to the very heart of Christianity in any other country – but it is reversed, corrupted and ignored by the population of Hungary.

Bishop Palfy and pastors from the Hungarian Reformed Church preach hate from the pulpit and Pastor Hegedus erect statues of Horthy in plastic boxes protected by CCTV cameras.

Hungary is NOT A CHRISTIAN COUNTRY.

So called ‘Christianity’ in Hungary is an Orban construct which Orban uses as a negotiating position to justify his message of hate, xenophobia, antisemitism and racism. And to preserve his ‘Munchausen’s syndrome by proxy’ (FII) – or false position to brainwash the Hungarian state.

Hungary is NOT A CHRISTIAN COUNTRY.

END OF SERMON.

Guest

Amen

Bowen
Guest

The weather is quite nice today. Importantly, it’s the last warm weather of the year, probably. Cold and rain coming next week, and many might be taking the last chance to go out for the weekend

webber
Guest

Reuters – am I the only one who feels this way, or is Reuters’ coverage of Hungary heavily tilted in Orban’s favour?
On the referendum, Reuters says “An overwhelming majority of Hungarians are expected to reject the European Union’s migrant quotas in a referendum on Sunday,”

By contrast, AP reports “The government’s position is expected to find wide support among voters, though there was uncertainty whether turnout would exceed the 50 percent plus-one-vote threshold needed for the referendum to be valid.”

Reuters has made a prediction (based one what???) that an “overwhelming majority” of Hungarians will support Orban’s position – but even if more than 50% of the electorate votes, I doubt it will be a majority of the electorate, it will only be a majority of those who voted.
AP correctly says things are up in the air depending on participation, and makes no predictions.

WTH is going on at Reuters????

Bowen
Guest

They are most probably correct that an overwhelming majority (of those who do vote) will vote for the government’s position. But that is irrelevant, really, if only a small percentage of the electorate bothers to take part in this charade.

Another detail: Budapest’s 8th district has the lowest turnout in Budapest (just 9% at 11:00), despite sickeningly large spending on propaganda by Kocsis Mate’s office.

webber
Guest

But that is not what Reuters said. Reuters said “an overwhelming majority of Hungarians” will vote no. They didn’t say that a majority of those who vote will vote no, they said “Hungarians.” That is simply wrong. How can they make a prediction like that? This is not the first time Reuters’ reporting on Hungary has been weird, and every time it leans toward Fidesz’s predictions.

webber
Guest

So – Say 50% of register voters + 1 voter take part in the referendum, making it valid. This looks unlikely at the moment, but let’s suppose it will happen.
And let’s suppose that 98% of those voters vote “no.” That percentage is not only unlikely, it is impossible. It will be lower than that. But for the sake of argument, let’s assume it’s 98%.
98% of 50% (+ 1 voter) is not a majority of Hungarian voters.

Where does Reuters get off predicting that a “majority of Hungarians” will say “no” on the referendum? Do they have anyone who talks to people outside Orban’s inner circle? I really wonder.

Bowen
Guest

Well, it’s either
• journalistic laziness on their part, failing to check actual facts
• just writing whatever sounds ‘dramatic’ and somewhat arguable, for their readers’ delectation
• they have their own version of Nick Thorpe, feeding them misinformation.

webber
Guest

Sure, and if it were just a paper like the Daily Mail or USA Today, I wouldn’t mind. But Reuters is a news service from which newspapers worldwide pick up “facts.” It’s supposed to be reliable. For the past two years it has, from time to time, given slants to its reports that agree completely with Fidesz’s spin. It’s gone into a very dark place, in my view.

Bowen
Guest

The fear and hate continues.

Migrants preparing to storm the borders on Monday!
http://www.hirado.hu/2016/10/02/hatarnyitast-varnak-a-nepszavazatastol-a-migransok/

Hungarian woman attacked by a migrant in London!
http://www.hirado.hu/2016/10/01/brutalisan-megvertek-egy-magyar-not-londonban/

Member

I hope the woman realizes that she is also an emigrant in London! She can alleyway return to Hungary where Orban will protect her! LOL She also forgets to mention why did the “African neighbour boy” kicked his son. Maybe she and her son carried the message that Orban’s news portals carry: hate!

PALIKA
Guest

This is completely unwarranted supposition. We must keep a sense of proportion

Bowen
Guest

I suggest you inform British journalists immediately of this terrible attack on a defenceless Hungarian woman by a black, Somali (and no doubt Muslim, and illegal) migrant! For some inexplicable reason, they’re not covering it! Luckily, hirado.hu and its crack team of investigators are running this story, which just so happens to have happened on the day of the referendum!

PALIKA
Guest

The material is available to all media outlets. What the cover is, of course an editorial decision. The print media is highly politicised and the coverage is sensitive to that objective as well as perceived reader expectations.
The broadcast media is taken up by Tory Party Conference and Brexit, plus of course the highly politicised and anti Assad/Putin coverage of Syria, US elections.

This story is probably covered in the local papers near where it happened. Unfortunately assaults are very common and racially motivated ones are very familiar to most of us in the UK. They not likely to get any less frequent thanks to the wave of racial hate that has been released since the Cameron referendum. The BBC refers to it as a “spike” without even waiting for the evidence of its extent. Do not expect much, the English are not what they were when I so much admired them.

webber
Guest

I believe Bowen’s point is that the story might be fiction. It might have been fabricated by Fidesz spin-doctors to try to encourage people to vote “no” at the last minute, and the lack of the story anywhere but Hungary could be seen as evidence of that.

It’s a possibility, you must admit.

As Eva pointed out about the bombing recently, quite a few people in Hungary have become extremely doubtful about things they read in the Hungarian media.

PALIKA
Guest

I am sorry I missed that point. Where was it first reported? If it is only in the Hungarian media then of course anything is possible. Even if there are rules, we know that they need not apply in all cases.

webber
Guest

As to the British media: I would think the Daily Mail would be delighted to run a story about immigrants attacking immigrants. It’s the sort of thing Brexit brutalists delight in, even now.

Observer
Guest

Here is a serious crime committed by Hungarians in London “earning” them altogether 25 years jail time.
http://www.countrysmallholding.com/cmlink/london-24/news/crime/woman_lured_fiancee_to_hampstead_heath_so_accomplices_could_stamp_on_his_head_and_rob_him_1_3696205

Guest

My wife just made the prediction that the voter participation will be 3x % – now that would be a kind of shock, showing that her fellow Hungarians aren’t that stupid!

We’ll open a bottle of wine (she doesn’t like champagne – had to drink too much cheap pezsgö when she did weddings …) anyway, whatever the result will be ..

Bowen
Guest

Wolfi, Wolfi! It doesn’t matter if there are fewer than 50%. It doesn’t matter at all. Orban has already made his mind up.

Orban: “A valid referendum is better than an invalid one, but there will be legislative consequences anyway, because we have pledged… to enact parliament’s exclusive authority to determine whom the Hungarians wish to live together with”, the prime minister said. “We will do that whether the referendum is valid or not”, he added. “There is just one condition: one more ‘no’ is needed than ‘yes’ votes”, he said.

http://www.dailynewshungary.com/referendum-orban-expects-no-votes-win-referendum/

Guest

Looks to me the ‘pogi’ Orban has been feeding the population has been from the dregs in the oven. Things are never are as they seem. There always seems to be a metatext to what he wants done as he keeps all targets constantly moving. Having a top-down government makes it not very promising to have a population that can effect change when the government insists on serving stale sutemeny their own way.

In social psychological circles it has basically been established that ‘frustration leads to aggression’. If as it is said the people dislike Fidesz it remains to be seen how long they can temper their dislike of its politics even when ostensibly they are given the means to express it and but yet still cannot order a different track toward a different future. At this time it is apparent the electorate is stymied and stunted every which way they move.

webber
Guest
Bowen, Orban and other Fideszniks made comments of that sort after they lost the 2/3s in Parliament – “It doesn’t matter.” “We still have the backing of the majority” blah, blah, blah. But you know as well as I do that they were very unhappy about losing the super majority. They worked damned hard to keep it, and failed. Wolfi is right. If they fail to get 50% participation, that means that the majority of Hungarians aren’t as stupid or as nasty as Fidesz believed. Even with 50% participation, they will have to come to that conclusion (they won’t have a majority of eligible voters for sure), but failing to mobilize a majority of voters will kill them inside (figuratively), and I just bet that some people who worked on the campaign lose their jobs as a result. They spent all that money, all that time and energy on t.v., radio, and in print – if they don’t get that 50% + 1 it will have been a huge waste of time. They spent an unprecedented amount of money on this. The country was filled with their screaming. And if they don’t get the 50%, they will really have to… Read more »
webber
Guest

Jut under three hours to go, and it’s well over 30% already. It could go over 50%. But it might not! Keep that wine ready!

Reality Check
Guest

444 thinks it will be very difficult to reach 50%.

http://444.hu/2016/10/02/nem-lesz-meg-az-ervenyesseg-hacsak-csoda-nem-tortenik

Predicting no better than 47%.

Member

Hard to actually reach 50%, but with 47% it will be easy as pie to cheat it up to 50%… (Does anyone have any doubts about that? Or that the monitored re-count that the opposition will demand will be just as easily faked?)

webber
Guest

Now the numbers are out for 5:30, and they are just under 40%. With an hour and a half to go, it is quite possible that Stevan is right and they will cheat up to 50%.
But if previous referenda are a guide, there is no way that they can reach 50% without cheating massively.
If they do that, there will be enormous disgust. It will just be too obvious. They have to decide now whether they are willing to evoke that disgust just to get a result that Orban has already says does not matter.

Reality Check
Guest

It will be harder for them to cheat the referendum now that the head of National Election Office has stated he doesn’t think it will reach 50%.

http://444.hu/2016/10/02/mar-a-valasztasi-bizottsag-elnoke-szerint-sem-lesz-ervenyes-a-nepszavazas

By setting the bar too high and missing it, 444 thinks Orban/Fidesz has lost a lot of credibility with this “loss”.

“There are limits to Fidesz’s campaign machine”.
“Even without a viable opposition, Hungarians don’t like Fidesz”

http://444.hu/2016/10/02/leverte-a-fidesz-a-lecet

Even after a relentless expensive campaign, Fidesz could not muster half of Hungarians.

Member

But of course Orban’s spin-machine will now bellow over all the media his percentage no (and pass in silence over his percentage turnout)… Someone should calculate how much the percentage turnout actually cost the Hungarian tax-payers, per person cajoled or coerced to turn up to participate in this farce. And show it over pictures of the hospitals and how that money could have helped them, or education. And throw in the price of the fence(s). And then do the sums for the obscene amount stolen by Orban from the EU tax-payers for his cronies, his stadium and his choo-choo train.. A cartoon with Orban’s belly growing as he packs all this in might just about fit…
comment image

webber
Guest

The spin is already in overdrive, but the load is unbalanced, so the money-laundering machine is bouncing all over the place and making a horrible racket. The neighbors will be complaining.

Bowen
Guest

Still. Mr Orban is going to need a little holiday in Austria in the next few days.

Guest

OT but still:

Almost a hundred refugees have started to study at my home university – of course among 28 000 students in the city (which has 87 000 inhabitants and is the youngest city in Germany btw) they are kind of invisible among all the others coming from all over the world!

Maybe one of them will be the next Steve Jobs? (You know that his father was a Syrian, his mother a Catholic girl from Switzerland?)

webber
Guest

Orban says the Parliament will go ahead and adopt measures to keep refugees out of Hungary, regardless of what the majority of Hungarians demonstrate by voting or not voting.
But then, Orban said the Sunday store closing was sacrosanct, and said some things about the planned internet tax too. And then he changed his tune.

There is not a thing that man says that you can rely on.

Reality Check
Guest

Eva writes ” It is heartbreaking to hear that schoolchildren call each other “migrants” as a pejorative term. One nine-year-old asked his mother whether he could carry a pocket knife when the migrants come. And a little girl who couldn’t even pronounce the word “migráns” envisaged being killed when they arrive in Hungary.”

This could be where some of that fear comes from – school texts.

http://444.hu/2016/09/30/migransos-feladat-az-allami-foldrajz-tankonyvben-egeszen-meglepo-valaszokkal

Guest

My wife just went to facebook and immediately started swearing like hell (you know, Hungarian women can really swear …). Seems that two of her friends asked everybody to vote “nem”.

Now the crazy side of this:

Both women have daughters who live and work with their partners outside Hungary, making good money, driving nice shiny cars …

One already told her mother that she’ll be staying in Switzerland with her Hungarian husband and raise their child (as yet unborn …) there.

So these economic migrants are ok – but refugees from a war?

My wife is really angry with her “friends” – she already unfriended some of them because of their incessant Fides/Jobbik propaganda!

Member

My wife has done the same. As soon as they make a racist comment, they are unfriended.

Observer
Guest

My experience is that with the Fidesz faithful no facts, numbers or arguments hold any sway – even the KSH numbers or the most blatant cases of corruption are somehow explained away by amazing of absurdity, noteworthy in their own right.
Witness Orban’s claim of overwhelming victory.

This attitude poses a grave problem as it makes communication and negotiation close to impossible, leaving very few dangerous options.

Member

At 17:30 pm, participation is below 40%.

Bowen
Guest

It’s interesting that there are a few counties which are likely to get over 50%. These counties border Austria, where there are a lot of Hungarians who go over the border to find work, I imagine. These counties will have had relatively little exposure to refugees.

The counties where people actually have had the chance to see a lot of ‘migrants’ first-hand (Budapest, and those bordering Serbia) have comparatively low turnout.

It was the same with the Brexit vote. Areas with relatively little immigration (parts of Wales and Northern England) were tending to vote ‘Leave’.

Guest

It was also similar in Switzerland when a referendum was held about immigrants – those people in the Alpine villages (County Appenzell e g) voted overwhelmingly “NO immigrants” while people in the big cities like Genf or Zürich voted Yes, we have no problem with immigrants!

Or look at former “Communist” Eastern Germany where xenophobia has reached unbelievable levels – no immigrant would want to live there! Just like in Hungary …

Guest

It’s official – and already all over the German media with typical comments like”even though the government spent millions of €s on a hate campaign it was unsuccessful”

No we’re watching a concert by Bruce Springsteen to celebrate …

webber
Guest

German media is one thing, but where is the official announcement in Hungarian? I haven’t seen it. Do you have a link?

Guest

Gergely Gulyas said it somewhere, I’m too lazy (and happy …) to look it up in Hungarian, sorry!
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/ungarn-referendum-ueber-fluechtlingsquoten-ungueltig-a-1114943.html

webber
Guest

I was silly to ask! For the first time in months I turned on the t.v., and saw that even Orban’s awful channels are reporting it.

Ferenc Horkay Hörcher should be ashamed of himself (saw a little of him). I don’t know how he manages to convey disgusting views and be boring at the same time, but he does.
And why Olga Kálmán talked with Gábor Fodor after his Liberal Party encouraged people to vote, I do not know. I especially don’t understand why she didn’t challenge him when he said that Orbán lost this vote. She should have said “So did you. You encouraged people to vote – with money you got from Fidesz – didn’t you?” Fodor’s Liberal Party had posters up all over the place saying “Vote Yes, vote against Fidesz” in Budapest’s “red crescent” (and nowhere else, as far as I could see). If enough people had followed that advice, the vote would have been valid, and Fidesz would have won.

webber
Guest

I wonder if they are arguing at Fidesz headquarters right now about making voting compulsory in Hungary? (as it is in Luxembourg, and some other countries). If they are, I bet some people in the room are saying it could be dangerous and bring more opponents to the booths, while others are saying it would have averted the embarrassment of having so few people vote today.
And Bowen is surely right: Whether the Great O has locked himself up in his room alone, or is raging at underlings who told him to go on this offensive I do not know, but I also think he is going to visit Austria very soon.

Bowen
Guest

According to Klubradio, his excellency Mr Orban is due to give an announcement. However, no journalists are allowed to attend …

bimbi
Guest

This morning Prime Minister Orbán was looking forward to a Є 50,000,000 orgasm – “it is the emotion” – and this evening he has finished up with coitus interruptus.

Unfortunately, he has done the same thing to the country through this massive money-laundering scheme.

Guest

My interpretation of Orban’s referendum fiasco: The Hungarians want democracy with a human face.

Bowen
Guest

Hungarian state news is not reporting the low turnout in any clear fashion. Actually, it’s omitting this information.

The headline: “The results – overwhelming majority vote NO:
http://www.hirado.hu/2016/10/02/reszeredmeny-elsopro-tobbsegben-a-nem-ek-szama/

Expect this to be the message from now on.

I predict a new round of congratulatory placards across the country saying “95% of Hungarians say NO to Brussels”.

webber
Guest

I heard them admit it when I tuned in to t.v., but I trust you when you say they are hiding that now.
I also saw the reporter looking very confused, and awfully upset. Her bosses must be raging in the background. They failed to deliver. Heads may roll.

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