The Hungarian government’s Anti-American rhetoric: László Kövér and Péter Boross

Two weeks ago Ambassador Colleen Bell returned to the United States to take part in the celebrations organized by the Hungarian Embassy in Washington for the sixtieth anniversary of the Hungarian Revolution. One of the events was the ribbon cutting ceremony for the “1956 Hungarian Freedom Fighters Exhibit,” which took place at the Pentagon. Here the American ambassador delivered a short but ringing speech about the wonderful U.S.-Hungarian friendship because “the United States and Hungary share a faith in democracy. We share a common heritage, cherishing our rights not as subjects or vassals, not as dependents or followers, but as citizens. We are citizens bound together by our love of liberty, and our willingness to serve.” What a charitable description of the present state of affairs in Hungary.

Official Hungary didn’t seem to appreciate the ambassador’s expressions of friendship and her praise of Hungarian democracy. Only a few days later at least two important political personages attacked the United States in the basest fashion in connection with the celebrations of ’56.

Let me start with Hungary’s elderly statesman Péter Boross, who for a few months in 1993 and 1994 was the prime minister of Hungary and now at least on paper is one of the chief advisers of Viktor Orbán. Anyone wanting to know more about Boross’s “love of democracy” should read my post titled “Péter Boross: No longer the wise man of Hungary?”

It just happened that three days before the anniversary of the revolution the U.S. State Department released a statement that “share[d] the concerns of global press freedom advocates, international organizations, and Hungarian citizens over the steady decline of media freedom in Hungary.” The statement called attention to two recent incidents. One was the ban of 444.hu from the parliament building on October 19; the other, “the sudden closure of Hungary’s largest independent newspaper, Nepszabadsag, on October 8.” The short statement ended with: “as a friend and ally, we encourage the Hungarian government to ensure an open media environment that exposes citizens to a diversity of views and opinions, a key component of our shared democratic values.”

The answer came soon enough. Péter Boross delivered a speech on October 22 in front of one of the several monuments commemorating the events of 1956. He spared no words condemning the United States, specifically mentioning the U.S. State Department’s statement concerning media freedom in Viktor Orbán’s Hungary. As Boross explained, October 23 is “a sacred day which certain people deride.” For example, “the deputy spokesman of a great power’s foreign ministry who is worried about the state of Hungary’s media freedom.” Somewhere in Washington the last issue of Népszabadság is being exhibited, he complained indignantly, and without hesitation offered the following retort: “Shouldn’t we exhibit a couple of items from the list of the heinous crimes [gaztettek] of the American imperialists?” Well, well, old habits die hard. Or perhaps, as János Dési of Klubrádió wrote in an opinion piece, “Boross was always a useful link in all dictatorships.” Dési’s comment is appropriate because as a youngster Boross was an enthusiastic cadet in a military academy that ended up fighting alongside the Germans.

The bashing of the United States continued a couple of days later when László Kövér delivered a speech in the parliament building where MSZP and DK members and perhaps some independents were conspicuously absent. For Kövér the “lesson of the revolution and war of independence [of 1956] is that without the maintenance and defense of its own self-image, self-determination and self-esteem the whole of Europe, the whole of the European Union may become the tragic victim of the unscrupulous self-interest of great powers outside of Europe and of clandestine powers [háttérhatalmak], operating over and above the states without democratic mandate and supervision.” How he got from an uprising against a Stalinist regime and the Soviet occupation forces to the political and economic encroachment of the United States, because, let’s face it, this is what Kövér is talking about, and George Soros’s Open Society project is unfathomable to me.

Kövér continued, claiming that “the Hungarian ’56” also has a message for the 21st century. Every time I hear a politician say that either a historical occasion or a long-dead historical figure “sends messages to us” I have to laugh because I once read a very funny piece by a blogger who said: “No, my friends, St. Stephen doesn’t send us messages. Neither does Sándor Petőfi nor Lajos Kossuth.” Well, I can add, neither does the Hungarian revolution of 1956. Especially not the kind of confused message that Kövér tries to convey about national sovereignty based on the will of the people which, if tampered with, “will lead to the weakening of democracy, anarchy and subordination of Europe.” Thus, in this context, when the Orbán government defends Hungary’s national sovereignty “it defends the heritage of 1956.” Those who think that Hungarians can be made to abandon the heritage of ’56, their historical ideals and their beliefs underestimate the Hungarian people. “No threat, no lies, no sugar coating” will work.

Of of those Soviet tanks Kövér was talking about

One of those Soviet tanks László Kövér was talking about with Hungarian coat of arms plastered on it

But the above was a mild rebuke in comparison to what followed: Kövér’s reinterpretation of the United States’ role in the Hungarian revolution of 1956. It was on November 1, 1956 that Hungary declared its independence and neutrality. “The next day, on November 2, the foreign ministry of the United States informed the Yugoslav leader, Tito, who was host to the Soviet party secretary [Nikita Khrushchev] at the time, that the United States doesn’t look with favor upon those countries neighboring on the Soviet Union that are unfriendly toward the Soviet Union. It was after that, on November 4, that the Soviet Union attacked Hungary with more tanks than Hitler had sent against Poland in 1939.” In brief, the defeat of the uprising is directly attributable to the pro-Soviet policies of the United States, which assured the Russians of its support of the beleaguered Soviet Union. This is a pretty incredible statement. I have no idea where he found this, for me at least, totally unknown piece of information.

As an antidote I recommend the website of the 1956-os Intézet és Oral History Archívum, especially “Győzhetett-e volna a magyar forradalom 1956-ban?” I also recommend Charles Gati’s highly acclaimed book Failed Illusions: Moscow, Washington, Budapest, and the 1956 Hungarian Revolt (2007).

October 26, 2016
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Charles Gati
Guest
Thank you for plugging my book about 1956 at the end of your excellent blog. It was published in English in 2006 and then in Polish, Slovak, Russian and (of course) Hungarian. Much of the book deals with US policy toward Hungary in the years prior to 1956 and during the revolution. The Hungarian edition sold more than 12,000 copies. Given Speaker Kövér’s charges, I wish to amplify your review about his reinterpretation of the US role in 1956. Washington, to put it mildly, is not without blemish, but he goes far too far. Incredibly, he blames the US for the Soviet intervention — but the “evidence” he cites is non-existent. No researcher has ever found the State Department “cable” supposedly sent to Yugoslav leader Tito in November 1956, saying that the US didn’t want unfriendly countries to emerge near the Soviet border. The “evidence” may be a speech by a Congressman that was subsequently repeated again and again by members of the John Birch Society. In the mid- and late-1950s, that far-right group accused President Eisenhower of being a card-carrying member of the Communist Party of the USA, among other far-fetched charges. It was this group that accused the… Read more »
Guest

Thank you, Professor Gati!

A bit OT:

Even sputnik reports on this:
As the EU remains divided over the response to the migration crisis, Renzi threatened to scupper the bloc’s draft budget for 2017, which is due to be discussed and voted on by the European parliament on Wednesday, October 26.

“We give €20 billion (US$22bn) to Europe so that we can get back 12 — and if Hungary, the Czech Republic and Slovakia want to preach at us about immigrants, allow Italy to say that the system is no longer working,” Renzi told RAI 1 television.

Read more: https://sputniknews.com/europe/201610261046746803-renzi-v4-eu-funds/

PS:
The German news says:
Renzi warns the Eastern European countries
So obviously he doesn’t consider the Visegrad 4 as a part of Central Europe as they want to be called …
And if they don’t want to share the burden – maybe they should leave the EU and join Russia’s “Eurasian Union” – if they like Putin so much.

Good riddance!

Rivarol
Guest

Orbán is a Nazi.

Member

More news on yesterday’s topic.
Matolcsy (National Bank), MKB Bank & intimidation of the press

MNB bought the 4th biggest commercial bank from its Bavarian owners (MKB) on December 18, 2014 then
it privatized the bank to unknown to the public (!) new owners in April, 2016.
The deal was finalized on June 30, 2016. [Blue Robin 45%, Metis 45%, Pannonia 10%,
but the public does not have the right to know who owns Blue Robin & Metis]

http://index.hu/gazdasag/2016/06/30/matol_a_furcsa_hatteru_konzorciume_az_mkb_bank/
http://magyarnarancs.hu/belpol/gyanus-az-mkb-eladasa-egy-csupan-25-millio-forintos-tokeju-tarsasag-vinne-a-bankot-98849

When MNB purchased MKB, they communicated that the bank was profitable.
The newspaper Figyelo disclosed in January 2015 that MKB was actually producing massive debt , and
Matolcsy and the Fidesz leadership (Lazar) were exchanging letters about this.

MNB sued the journalist Brückner for “breach of business secrets”.
He had to go to police on October 18, 2016 where they wanted to know who the source of his (true)
information was.

http://figyelo.hu/cikkek/439320-itt-tartunk
http://gepnarancs.hu/2016/10/a-rendorseg-kihallgatta-a-figyelo-ujsagirojat/

Member

Nepszabadsag shutdown.

Taxpayers’ money
—-> state-owned MKB bank, led by Matolcsy appointees ,
—-> sold to people whose identity is secret, April 2016
—-> MKB purchased the brand names Nepszabadsag, Nepszabadsag, nol.hu in secret from VCP Pecina, summer 2016

Member

So Orban & Matolcsy used taxpayers’ money to silence the largest newspaper in Hungary and to purchase 13 out of 19 county dailies.

Member

Without counting the beneficiaries of Matolcsy’s “foundations” (where he sequestered at least $1 billion of public money for private purposes), the number of MNB employees has grown by 23.9% since December 2013. the money paid to personnel (salaries & bonuses) by more than 51%.

http://www.vg.hu/gazdasag/elkepeszto-berek-az-mnb-nel-25-szazalekkal-nott-az-atlagkeresetuk-477234

Member

Without counting the beneficiaries of Matolcsy’s “foundations”
(where he sequestered at least $1 billion of public money for private purposes),
the number of MNB employees has grown by 23.9% since December 2013.
The money paid to personnel (salaries & bonuses) by more than 51%.

http://www.vg.hu/gazdasag/elkepeszto-berek-az-mnb-nel-25-szazalekkal-nott-az-atlagkeresetuk-477234

PALIKA
Guest
Thanks to Eva for this interesting post and to Charles Gati for his. PM Boross cannot be taken seriously but this is now a historic event. The Speaker is a terrifying and influential fool. It is a mystery to me at least what purpose the Orban regime thinks is served by generating hostility to a friendly, rich and generous ally whose military power through support for and leadership of NATO keeps Hungary safe without having to incur what would otherwise be a very costly defence budget to achieve the same result. Unfortunately our concerns are of limited value or interest since nobody has sought to deny that the voters put these people in powers and in reality the majority got the regime they deserve. Containment rather than displacement should be and probably is the most viable approach. The problem with displacement is that it risks bringing on unintended consequences. The “will of the people” rhetoric shared by the jumped up ex Police Minister of the UK is a signal of the same mindset. Murdoch and his allies who own Australia want to ensure their ownership of the UK is not undermined by the interventions of institutions they cannot control and… Read more »
Guest

As usual the crap about the UK is irrelevant and completely off the wall.

What is more relevant than references to “jumped up ex Police Minister of the UK ” – which no one will understand – (what planet are you on?) is what Ambassador Bogyay won’t say:

“Ms. Bogyay won’t speak about Mr. Zsolt Bayer, the notoriously racist and anti-Semitic journalist, a close friend of Prime Minister Orbán, who has received a high state award.

She won’t talk about the 50+ statues erected of writer and convicted World War II criminal Albert Wass who received the death sentence for killing Jews yet he is revered now as a great patriot and human being.

She won’t talk about another convicted World War II criminal, János Esterházy who participated in the destruction of the Slovak Jews. He is celebrated today as a “Jew saver.” And she won’t talk about Col. Ferenc Koszorus, Sr., an officer of the pro-Hitler Horthy regime who also recently became a “Jew saver,” although Yad Vashem has never acknowledged him as The Righteous Among the Nations.”

PALIKA
Guest

Calm yourself Charlie. Should not allow patriotic zeal to carry you away. Hands up those of the blog who do not know who the Jumped up ex Police Minister of the UK refers to, please.

If my post is OT ignore it. Or is it too close to the truth for your comfort?

Ambassador Bogyay is a diplomat, she represents her country’s government at the UN. I do not know what she does or does not talk about and frankly, knowing who sends the messages, I am not interested. But it is pretty unusual in my experience for serving diplomats to get involved in debating current political issues in the accrediting state. It would result in being sacked. I have no doubt about the Ambassador’s professionalism, efficiency, decency and integrity.

webber
Guest

“decency and integrity” of an ambassador who represents the Orbán regime?
Next will you talk about the decency and integrity of Stalin’s diplomatic corps?
How about Hitlers?

PALIKA
Guest

Try to keep a sense of proportion. I know how strongly you feel about the misdeeds of the Orban Regime, but these comparisons are unhelpful.
It maybe of some interest to read the Nepszava today on the spat with Renzi who did not like being called to spend less by the Commission. He delivered a smart rebuke to the Commission mentioning Orban and his chums saying the EU should dock their money.
At the same time EU Parliament passed a resolution to establish an independent and professional system of monitoring press freedom in the EU. I do not know exactly who voted against it, except that Orban’s MPs did. I will check if the UK Tories did likewise. I would not be surprised because they would not want the Tory Government’s links to Murdoch investigated. I will let you know.

Guest

A Murdoch press is tolerated because of the UK’s press pluralism.

You are attempting your moral relativism by suggesting it has a relevance to Orban’s commocracy.

It doesn’t even remotely compare with Hungary – but you’ll need it fully spelled out.

The press in Hungary is about as far as you can get from pluralism.

Your beloved Orban has it stitched up like a kipper.

Troll factor? 8

webber
Guest

Please don’t tiptoe around the observation with the cheap answer that Orban is not Stalin or Hitler. We all know he is not. Using superlatives is a way to get fuzzy minds focused.
Since you still didn’t get it, I’ll put it another way:
This is a lousy, corrupt, anti-democratic government. To talk (as you did) about the “decency and integrity” of an intelligent person who voluntarily serves, indeed represents a rotten regime is, to put it mildly, stupid.

PALIKA
Guest

Clearly Webber, we must agree to disagree.
I do however commend my exchanges with Charlie today because they do throw an interesting light on the similarities between Orban and the English Tories.

webber
Guest

Do let us know who voted against. It is relevant. I don’t care right now why. I want to know who – representative of which parties. After that, why will be interesting.

Guest

Good try, webber – but Blinker never does follow up. She won’t respond if it betrays her love of Orban.

It’s preposterous to compare Orban with the Tories – just like all her other posts. She’s above herself -“interesting light”? Only she thinks so.

But just like ‘Kisalfold’ and Hungarian TV she’s happy if she can show the UK in a poor light – despite the fact that business is booming and Nissan have just announced two new models to be produced in Sunderland.

Ask anything about Orban or Trump and she’s dead quiet.

PALIKA
Guest
Go to European Parliament website. The votes on the Veld resolution “Establishing an EU mechanism on democracy, the rule of law and fundamental rights” is listed as item 88 on page 181. For + Against -. There is a code as to which Party is which and the MEPs are named. ECW is an extremist group Cameron chose for the Tories. They voted No. as did UKIP and FIDESZ but in a different and mainstream group as well as Jobbik. The resolution was to instruct the Commission to set up independent machinery for checking out what the defaulting States are up to before sanctions are imposed. May in her 1 am 5 minute oration last week said she wanted to be at the heart of the EU whilst the U.K. is still a member. I think the correct interpretation of her remarks is that she will be in the forefront of any sabotage move. Murdoch is not prominent because the ultra fair Brits want to ensure a divers print media, but because he was allowed to get so large and powerful that he dominates the market and moderate, liberal opinion is shut out. Please tell me why this is different… Read more »
Guest

Troll factor: 7
Irrelevance factor: 10
Orban admiration index:10
Reading worth: 0

(Constants:
Trump admiration index: 10
Unanswered challenges: 50
Orban admiration index average: 10
Troll constancy: 9)

Final analysis? Not worth a response. (NWR)

Guest

“Hands up those of the blog who do not know who the Jumped up ex Police Minister of the UK refers to, please.”

Everybody.

Just like Orban’s skewed referendum you daren’t ask the question positively – so you can claim the nil returns.

You’ve been sussed.

You are an Orbanite, Evie Blakie. You won’t, for example, denigrate Trump – even when you are presented with the overwhelming evidence of an ignorant brainless criminally-groping thug.

“Put him aside” you say – or words to that effect.

Why? Because Orban has endorsed him – and not ‘unendorsed’ him – so you still have to toe the party line.

You have to mitigate your friend Orban by making dubious, tenuous negative observations about the UK which diminish the disaster that your hero is.

Moral relativism – that the intelligent contributors on here can smell.

You are a ‘soft’ troll – by indirect reference – but still a troll.

So come on posters?

Do you know who “the Jumped up ex Police Minister of the UK refers to”? – without having had to look it up?

PALIKA
Guest

Calm down Charlie, this is only a blog. Tease and be teased.
The UK has become and is fast becoming consolidated as a Murdoch possession. The previous PM brown nosed himself around Murdoch and his UK hirelings as did Blair. They do not control the press as OV tries to, Murdoch controls the UK and its political class. Their referendum result as is Orban’s a worthless piece of propaganda the result of which is about to pull the UK economy into the gutter. The sufferers will be the poor who will be poorer and the tax payers, like us. Great result for jingoism and foe Murdoch. Ask any Australian who owns Australia
Marks and Sparks sells “British Turbot”. Do they educate the Turbot at Eton or in one of May’s grammar schools to make sure they are properly British?

Guest

You can’t stop can you? Tell us about your hero Orban.

This is Hungarian Spectrum.

Stick to the last – or fuck off.

PALIKA
Guest

Charlie, it may help you if you listen, or preferably read and digest.
The vote on “Establishing an EU mechanism on democracy, the rule of law and fundamental rights” was item 88 on the agenda of the EU Parliament where it was carried overwhelmingly. You can check this out on the Parliament website.
What this reveals is that those who voted against were the ECR group, English Tories. They are all in the no lobby.
Also in the no lobby were UKIP and needless to say FIDESZ.
The connection is pretty obvious as is the corruption motive.
Would May and her soulmate Orban want an independent scrouteneer body? Of course not. But why not?
For me the connection is obvious and the relevance to this blog also. No, it does not show the English Tories in a good light, but let us see if we can defeat them in the votes that are likely to come. Just the same for OV

Guest

Which bit of “fuck off” don’t you understand?

I don’t claim to be knowledgeable about the law – I just convey my experience which may be extensive.

Now about the “Fuck off”?

PALIKA
Guest

How terribly educated and very English. Congratulations

PALIKA
Guest

Charlie, you claim to be knowledgeable about the law. Some of the expressions you have been using clearly contravene the rules that govern the ways people may use blogs. I think the best is if you read the rules and avoid possible embarrassing visits etc.

Bowen
Guest

Why don’t you start your own blog called “British Spectrum”? I hope it will be popular.

Perhaps Charlie can follow you there, and make entirely irrelevant comments about Hungary, or Gambia, or Uruguay, or whatever? Just for ‘fun’.

PALIKA
Guest

Relevance or the lack of it is interpreted as means of censoring out comments and opinions some do not like. If it is OT do not respond. Just ignore it.

For sure I would not like to live in any country run by the likes of some of the bigots who sometimes inhabit this blog.

Just for clarity there is no UK law against being irrelevant, but there is against being abusive or offensive, where the blog is located is irrelevant, what counts is where the blogger is.

Charlie reveals a level of cultural and intellectual refinement which fortunately most of the other bloggers do not share. Poor fellow.

Bowen
Guest

Charlie is not wholly unwarranted in his response above. One of the modus operandi of a troll is to pollute blog comments sections with irrelevant comments, divert conversations, and generally annoy people, potentially driving away readers. Well done to you.

PALIKA
Guest

Nobody has to respond. Or to be annoyed. If you think it is OT ignore it. But Charlie engages with abusive responses. Webber engages but without abuse. You are trying to be helpful.
But no conversation has been diverted or readers driven away except perhaps by Charlie’s gutter language.

webber
Guest

Sorry, but there is no law anywhere against being abusive or offensive on a blog.

There are laws on defamation, but since you are not writing here under your real name, it is impossible to defame you.

Anyway, Charlie hasn’t (yet), though he’s clearly frustrated with you.

PALIKA
Guest

Webber, you maybe right about Hungary. Not so in the UK. There are hundreds of prosecutions for just that in the courts. Forget defamation or being frustrated. The law is intended as a break on uncouth and aggressive fools who write nonsense and offend before they think. I would not recommend trying it on.

Guest

Ignorance of the law in England: 50
(The scale only goes up to 10)

PALIKA
Guest

Do you want to test my knowledge?

Guest

Ignorance of the law in England:51

PALIKA
Guest

Go to web site cps.gov.uk and look for Guidelines for prosecuting cases involving communications sent via social media. There are 4 categories. So far you are fairly and squarely in category 4 but you may make progress if you want to continue you rather foolish over confrontational approach. Have a good read. You might read the web of the EU Parliament which shows just where the Tories find their closest allies. Murdoch, UKIP, extreme nationalists.

Guest

Troll factor: 8
Irrelevance factor: 55
Orban admiration index:10
Reading worth: -5

(Constants:
Trump admiration index: 10
Unanswered challenges: 53
Orban admiration index average: 10
Troll constancy: 10)

Final analysis? Not worth a response. (NWR)

Guest

This thread is closed through extreme irrelevance.

PALIKA
Guest

Not a very robust response. You usually bluster more loudly. Read both and digest.

webber
Guest

Sorry, but that is pure nonsense.

In England, as in all free countries, you can tell a man to his face to f.o., to go to hell, etc. without fear of prosecution. You can write it as well.

What I suspect you mean is harassment.
That is repeated, and systematic abuse. That can be prosecuted.

But it cannot be if you are anonymous online.

In any case, you’ve given as well as you’ve gotten. You’ve hit Charlie from time to time without provocation (and vice versa).

What has gone on here would never make it to court. A judge would throw the case out immediately.

It is a bit dull and dreary.

PALIKA
Guest

Webber, I say nothing more about Charlie’s abusive and gutter language. I have directed his attention to the cps website in England. If for some reason his or for that matter any other such stuff is investigated the cps would decide what to do as there set out. Anonymity is irrelevant. Free to tease and be teased, as I wrote. We are not in a lawless environment, though. Not even on this normally elegant blog.

webber
Guest

My dear fellow, CPS will not just investigate anything without a suggestion. I suggest you get right on it if you think you have a case. I am absolutely sure you do not.
Anonymity is certainly not irrelevant – no matter how strongly you repeat that it is.
Look into it if you dare, sic prosecutors on it if you think you have a case.
Everyone has a right to make a fool of themselves.

webber
Guest

P.S. I find it weird that you repeatedly talk about lawsuits here. Nobody else has ever done it, and there has been some extreme language used here almost daily. Only you come up with this silly idea about involving the law. What Charlie has said to you is nothing compared with what others have written here – but nobody, ever, suggested suing them.

PALIKA
Guest

No Webber, you are wrong. Charlie has showered me with racial abuse. If you go back in history which I have he abused me obscenly and repeatedly for being Hungarian.
Normally people operate within the law. I have drawn attention to the way the law in the U.K. deals with social media. Charlie has I think transgressed the rules. It maybe that in your world this does not matter.
I think he is a relatively harmless self satisfied bafoon who thinks his contributions gain recognition by being English. If you flag this up you are asking for being taken down. If the guy is English, which I doubt, he would know that and expect a challenge to his pomposity.
I do not talk about lawsuits, Calm down and remain polite and sensible and remember this is a blog which operates within the law.

Guest

Foxtrot Oscar.

webber
Guest

truly a weird response.
“remember this is a blog which operates within the law” of the United States, where it is based (yes, that matters – look into that, too).
I think your understanding and interpretation of common law is quite unusual.

PALIKA
Guest

This is not Common Law. It is statutory. If you have a bit of spare time when not blogging check it out.
The authorities in the US also have jurisdiction over racially motivated harassment and abuse. I cannot tell you about those but maybe you can check that out too and let us know.
All this is rather silly. You are a polite man who makes some good points. Why do you identify with Charlie who clearly has personality issues which allows him to resort to abuse through the language of the gutter?

webber
Guest

Why do you think I “identify” with anyone but myself, or represent anyone but myself? I assure you I do not.

PALIKA
Guest

I am pleased you do not

Istvan
Guest
Issues surrounding Colonel Ferenc Koszorús are I think very complex, especially because of the role his son has played in the American Hungarian Federation and in his promoting a positive narrative relating to his father. The late Rep Tom Lantos also gave Colonel Koszorús credit for saving Jewish lives in 1944 and as we all know he was a holocaust survivor and this must be given some weight. A complicating factor appears to be that the First Magyar Armored Division never went into combat against the Arrow Cross and the gendarmerie battalions who supported rapidly sending Budapest Jews to their deaths and overthrowing Horthy at the request of the Nazis. It was what could be called a standoff and the Nazis eventually took over Budapest and sent Horthy away on a train without the Hungarian Army firing a shot at the Nazis. Another aspect of how complex the record of Colonel Koszorús is due to the fact that there is no evidence he in any way opposed the use of tens of thousands of unarmed Jewish labor servicemen who were forced to accompany the Hungarian army to the front following the Axis attack on the Soviet Union. Approximately 100,000 men,… Read more »
Rivarol
Guest

Orban is a Nazi.

Jean P.
Guest

“Unfortunately our concerns are of limited value or interest since nobody has sought to deny that the voters put these people in powers ..”

and nobody has sought to deny that these people immediately made use of the power to make their ascension to power irreversible.

Guest

London Calling!

“because “the United States and Hungary share a faith in democracy.”

Colleen Bell must think she’s writing another episode of the soap opera: “Embassy Neighbours”.

When you are under attack from all sides you have to consider that your message is wonky.

It sure is.

Things will be different when Donald Trump wins the White House.

Oh! No! That sounds terrible!

Well anything can happen in a soap opera you know!

It’s an ill fart wind that blows no good.

bimbi
Guest

Poor Kövér Lászlo, he does seem a bit out of his depth as a propagandist. He should follow his master’s example and keep the lies simple and straightforward because then they can easily be relayed further. Maybe he should take a break, comb his mustache and go back to acting the part of the cattle herder out on the puszta while he presides over his puppet parliament.

Guest

By referring to “the heinous crimes of the American imperialists?”, Boross is exposing the modus operandi of Orbán’s mafia regime, which points fingers at the crimes and misdemeanors elsewhere, as an excuse to behave badly here, as if to say “but look how naughty other countries are, so why pick on us when we are naughty here!?”

Greed, jealousy, aggression and vindictiveness are all part of human nature but in democracies are kept in check through proper legislation and laws, while in Hungary these bottom of the barrel scrapings of human frailty form the very backbone of Orbán’s government.

Guest
Re: the US is not ‘without blemish’ Prof Gati’s comment is to the point with no evasion when it comes to assessing causes of the Revolution. But he is a respected scholar with integrity in his research as he writes history. And his assessments derive from great knowledge of events. Others on the other hand appear to be devoted to attending to a script of applying aggression in their diplomatic and political communiques to a source that in the main appears to irk them to no end as they ask the government to simply follow what they ostensibly believe in. If one looks at the seemingly deteriorating relationship it appears as if the aggression towards the US is totally misplaced. Messrs Kover and Boross must have kinks in their necks which restricts them from looking East to see where all their problems emanated from in the post-war period. Not only did the Soviets physically destroy the Magyar state but they also delivered psychic blows which the state and people appear to never have recovered from. And all from a so- called ‘master’ of their national affairs at that past time. Magyarorszag arguably had difficulty then discerning friend from enemy. Looks… Read more »
Guest

And regarding Prof Gati’s ‘Failed Illusions’ it will be added to another library shelf shortly. Research with integrity should be part of that kind of ‘share of voice’.

Giuseppe Riccardi
Guest

Renzi says that the countries which don’t accept unlimited immigration should not get european money.
His governenent is ferrying 3 or 4000 people daily from african shore to italy promising 35 euros per day each plus welfare services.
Left wing and religious private organizations are earning million euros in a country where youth unemployment is 60% and the poverty rate of families is increasing .
He hopes to send part of these people to other countries but in different ways all eurooean borders with italy are closed.

Member

The number is NOT 3-4000 on the average, it is 1,000 daily in October and much less in previous months.

2015 entire year: 153,842
2016, January 1 through October 26: 156,948
October 1 through October 26, 2016: 24,905

adult men: 70%, adult women: 14%, children: 16%

Nigerians: 19%
Eritreans: 13%
Sudanese: 7%
Gambians: 7%
Cote d’Ivoireans: 7%
Guineans: 6%
Somalians: 5%
Malians: 5%
Senegalese: 5%

Member

About 74% of the migrants/refugees came from these nine African countries.

Inside this number:
former British colonies: 44.6%
former French colonies: 31.1%
Eritrea+Somalia: 24.3%

Member

Sea arrivals from Turkey to Greece,

January 1 to March 31 (before the agreement with Turkey): 151,452
April 1 through October 26: 18,007

Adult men: 42%, adult women: 21%, children: 37%

Syria: 47%
Afghanistan: 25%
Iraq: 15%
Pakistan: 5%
Iran 3%
others: 5%

Source: UNHCR

Mihal
Guest

What’s with this “promising 35 euros per day each plus welfare services.” ? You want to say that these people won’t have thought of going to Italy if Renzi hadn’t promised these benefits?
If you want to put your extreme-right rhetoric in line with Orban’s lies, don’t forget to blame Merkel for all the refugees who are imported to Europe as potential voters.

webber
Guest

And your chosen name is not extreme right?
Riiiight…

Giancarlo
Guest

Common, don’t export racist Lega’s propaganda. 35 euro per day is the cost Italy sustain to take care of one people, not how much refugees get directly. Italy don’t ferry anyone, just save poor people from sinking in med sea. And nobody wants to share “unlimited immigration”, what is asked to all EU countries is just cooperation in managing an humanity emergency on EU borders, cause leaving them die outside EU territory doesn’t match values EU was built on.

Member
Member

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Member

The art of thievery:

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Member

Spelling ? Elementary school ? Romani ite domum?

Guest

@Einsatzgruppenführer

Schleimscheißer

Member

“Premier’s family tied to shady characters from far-off places”

https://english.atlatszo.hu/2016/10/27/premiers-family-tied-to-shady-characters-from-far-off-places/

Member
Member

US Embassy in Budapest: Ghaith Rashad Pharaon is [still] wanted for fraud and embezzlement.

http://444.hu/2016/10/27/semmi-nem-evult-el-az-amerikaiak-meg-mindig-korozik-az-orbannal-is-talalkozo-szaudi-bankart

Member
Guest

Thanks, Tappanch!

My wife had heard about some of these people already and got really angry!

If it weren’t so abominable it would be really funny:

Most of these people are (at least on paper, the reality is probably different – I’m sure they drink as much alcohol as …) dreaded Muslims …

So the main difference between Hungary and Azerbeijan, Turkey etc?

These are kind of Muslim dictatorships, while Hungary is “Christian” …

PALIKA
Guest

I am sorry but you are not allowed to use that expression on this blog. Only English people are.

Member

I do not think that I am that important, but somebody from Moscow (even from the middle of the Kremlin !- but this could have been a fake location too) tried to pretend that he is tappanch on October 25. the following day I got attacked by a Nazi in this blog. Well, today, the same Nazi attacked everybody here. I hope ГРУ is not so primitive.

webber
Guest

In the old days, the Soviet Union found advocates in the West among the extreme left, and tried to influence Western decision-making throug moles in the moderate left (I am old enough to remember those days well enough).
These days Russia finds advocates on the extreme right, and tries to influence
The side of the political spectrum has switched. The technology has changed a lot. The methods have not.

Tappanch, I think you can expect a lot more. I have no clue what you’ve posted that upset Russia so much. I doubt it’s just the criticism of Orban. We’re all doing that, but only you have been targeted (so far).

Member

Let us be frank, Putin can jot down quite a few recent successes. BrExit (support for UKIP), military bases in Syria (support for Assad) – thanks to the passivity of the US foreign policy.

The US thinks that it does not need foreign oil because of fracking in North Dakota and Canada. But is a shortsighted policy to place 70% [check the % later] of the world’s proven crude reserves into the hands of Iran and Russia in the middle East.

Pumukli
Guest

Putin and the KVB are smart and the West has been consistently underestimating them.

This murder was just an “accident” I mean without this Putin’s influence on these far right groups (individuals) wouldn’t have leaked.

Also if Orban has negotiated with “Professor” Pharaon then he probably met and dealt with other mafiosi and siloviki too. Putin is handling Orban pretty successfully, don’t you think?

In 2014 64% of the voters that is almost 2/3s of voters voted for either Fidesz or Jobbik – both of which are clearly being influenced, handled, controlled, commanded (take your pick) by Russians.

e-1956
Guest
Guest
Re: ‘Above all the West needs to keep its head. Russian interference in America’s presidential election merits measured retaliation. But the West can withstand such “active measures”. Russia does not pretend to offer the world an attractive ideology or vision. Instead its propaganda aims to discredit and erode universal liberal values by nurturing the idea that the West is just as corrupt as Russia, and that its political system is just as rigged. It wants to create a divided West that has lost faith in its ability to shape the world. In response, the West should be united and firm’ Pretty good advice if you ask me. The West and particularly the US must be measured in its response to a sometimes furious and aggrieved competitor. I disagree though that the West has ‘lost faith’. But rather new forms of political accretions are changing the former rules of the game which gives an advantage since clarification is needed in assessing where the changing game will lead. From the looks of it it is evident democracies are facing tougher tests as we go out from the post-war. One wonders of a possible compelling truth of the 21st. Is it ushering in… Read more »
e-1956
Guest

Ricardo, you have quoted the last paragraph of the Guardian article: http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21709028-how-contain-vladimir-putins-deadly-dysfunctional-empire-threat-russia

It included the definition: “active measures”

The Balogh Blog could analyze all events in Hungary as results of various “active measures”.

The history of the “active measures” has been a list of crimes against humanities. The authors belong into the docks of the courts.

Guest

You know we’re years on from the events of ’56 where good individuals
were eliminated for the good of the ’cause’. They wanted to let some air circulate into the stifling Stalinist regime. Unfortunately it was they who got the air sucked out of them. Oxygen is at premium when the bear breathes around its prey.

webber
Guest

So smart they are going bankrupt. How much are they spending on the adventure in Syria? And yet the hoped for increase in oil prices never seems to come…

Istvan
Guest
tappanch I think the discussion here in the USA among foreign policy types and military planning folks is a little different than an assumption of abandoning any US role in the states with proven oil reserves. Its about the reality that the stakes are not as high as they were once perceived to be not that long ago and to be honest our military is simply tired from active combat since September 11, 2001. As long as the Islamic State can be contained and its expansion ended with the use of proxies that is the route we will follow under a Clinton administration. The current offensive against the positions of the Islamic State in Mosul and the surrounding region is a joint effort by the Iraqi government forces with allied militias, the government Iraqi Kurdistan, local Assyrian Christian, Yezidi, Turcoman and Armenian militias, limited US and UK special ground forces, with US, UK and allied air support began on March 24, 2016 and still is continuing. There is little doubt in my mind that if the US had committed the 101st Airborne Division in near full strength Mosul would have fallen months ago and there would also be significant US… Read more »
Guest

Maybe your habit of writing Russian names with cyrillic letters is the problem. Does it somehow attract Russian readers to HS? If it does then let us all do it.

Pumukli
Guest

Somehow it seems that trolls are getting more aggressive by the day. Why are they so desperate?

Member

A Russian secret service cooperated with the neo-Nazi militant organization MNA, which is led by murderer Győrkös.

http://index.hu/belfold/2016/10/27/orosz_hirszerzok_gyakorlatoztak_a_rendorgyilkos_harcosaival/

The Soviet Union used the ideology of Communism to spread the Russian empire. Putin still played this card in the Ukraine last year, but elsewhere in Europe he can obviously play the Nazism card as well to spread the influence of Росси́я.

Member

ГРУ – foreign military intelligence, according to index.

0jr
Guest

what do you god damn commie jews expect after all they did was just send ping pong balls

Giuseppe Riccardi
Guest

Dear Giancarlo
Between extreme right propaganda and wild exploitation of immigrants there are many steps.
Italy is not respecting european rules because the government is letting anyone from any country enter the country without papers or with fake papers.
Some strange coops or for profit noprofit organizations are reaping millions out of the traffic .
You know about that and it’s something that other countries don’t want to accept.

All EU countries have closed there borders to economic migrants entering through italy.
France Switzerland Austria etc etc ate also patrolling the border.
Why ?

petofi
Guest

Migrants

The oil states should be forced to pay 10,000 euros per middle eastern migrant to the EU. The EU should forward the money to communities accepting migrants
to pay for increased housing/hospitals/schools.

petofi
Guest

But as I’ve said before, immigration from states with no war should not be allowed if that state does not manage the growth of its population to match its abilities to provide services.

petofi
Guest

In other words: those states should either manage their muslim-inspired population growth, or suffer the consequences to their own societies…

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