Power struggle on the Hungarian right?

It was only a few days ago that I posed the question: “who will win this political game?” Gábor Vona or Viktor Orbán? The occasion was Gábor Vona’s decision to demand a price for his party’s support of the constitutional amendments, which for political reasons were an important issue for the Hungarian prime minister. Orbán obviously didn’t expect his right-wing opposition, Jobbik, which had actually preferred an amendment to the referendum, to object to the “unwanted settlement” of refugees in Hungary. In that he was correct, but in exchange for its votes Jobbik demanded an end to the sale of the so-called “residency bonds,” a program that has been fraught with corruption in addition to being financially disadvantageous to the country (except in the very short term).

Orbán was furious. It was bad enough that the referendum into which he had poured so much money and energy turned out to be invalid. But now he was faced with Jobbik’s “blackmail,” as he called it. He was in a bind. Fidesz no longer has a two-thirds majority, without which no amendment to the constitution can be passed.

What followed was communication chaos. János Lázár announced that no more residency bonds will be sold, a statement that was later corrected by Viktor Orbán. He claimed that although Hungary’s financial situation is a great deal better than it was three or four years ago when the residency bond program began, the country still needs the incredible amount of money that is flowing into the budget from Chinese and Russian businessmen.

There was similar confusion over whether the vote on the amendments, originally scheduled for November 8, will be held on that day or whether the vote will be postponed. As it stands now, Fidesz has decided to go ahead, hoping they will be able to find two non-Fidesz people who will vote for the amendments. These votes, according to Vona, will not be coming from Jobbik.

Perhaps Viktor Orbán suspected after the failed referendum that Vona might give him a hard time. The very next day, on October 3, he launched into an ad hominem attack against Vona in parliament. Válasz, which until very recently was the most pro-Fidesz publication of Lajos Simicska’s media holdings, came to the conclusion that “Fidesz began the liquidation of Jobbik.” 888.hu immediately understood what was expected of them. On October 4 this caricature appeared on 888’s internet site.

Ï recognize myself" Jobbik is changing

“I recognize myself!” Jobbik is changing 😀

This is serious business because there is no greater public enemy as far as Orbán is concerned than Ferenc Gyurcsány. Underlying this direct assault, at least according to talking heads, is Orbán’s intention to attract the more radical Jobbik voters by offering them an alternative in Fidesz. Fidesz should be more attractive to them than a moderate Jobbik that, according to Fidesz propaganda, is being led by an alter ego of Ferenc Gyurcsány. Boris Kálnoky in an article in the Austrian Die Presse called the October 3 attack on Vona the first sign of “a power struggle in the Hungarian right.” The prime minister is attacking the party leader but is courting Jobbik’s voters, Kálnoky believes.

A few days ago Paul Lendvai, who just published a new book titled Orbáns Ungarn/Orbán Magyarországa, claimed that Orbán’s honeymoon is over. And Zoltán Lakner, an astute political commentator, considered the possible failure of the constitutional amendment “the end of Orbán’s game, which will cause him a serious loss of prestige.” (Unfortunately, I’m unable to provide a link to Lakner’s article because it appeared in Népszabadság and therefore is no longer available on the internet.) So, Orbán’s ire is understandable. And his vengeance against Vona is going to be brutal. No effort will be spared to discredit Vona.

The attack, after Orbán’s initial volley, is now coming largely from the recently established Fidesz internet sites. For example, ripost.hu, a tabloid of sorts, dredged up an old story from 2013, forgotten by most people. Vona was accused of marital infidelity and of visiting brothels and gay bars by “Terry Black,” whose real name is Károly Rácz and who for 30 years worked as a gay porn actor in Germany. Vona denied that he went to gay bars or brothels, but he did admit that he was unfaithful to his wife. Now riport.hu revived this old story with the title “Vona’s sexually supercharged private letters are being circulating in Jobbik.” Vona’s “liberal attitude toward sex” is being reinforced with stories about other Jobbik politicians, where “one sex scandal follows the other.”

Magyar Idők, Magyar Hírlap, and sadly by now also Origo, are full of attacks against Vona’s Jobbik. There was an article in Magyar Idők with the intriguing title “A Jobbik girl with American flag,” which says a lot about Fidesz. The American flag was on a ski cap the girl wore to Jobbik’s rally on October 23. This was considered to be such a stigma that Magyar Idők published a picture of the obviously odious item which, I guess, was supposed to demonstrate that Jobbik has become the agent of American imperialism.

Fidesz is even capable of creating anti-Jobbik demonstrations to discredit the party. Due to journalistic incompetence, however, their efforts turned into a farce. Origo reported at 17:05 on October 23 that “a group of 20-30 people had to be separated by the police at Jobbik’s 1956 commemoration” because they tried to disrupt Gábor Vona’s speech. The only trouble was that Vona didn’t even start his speech until 17:15. There can be only one explanation for what happened. Fidesz planned to send 20-30 people to disturb Vona’s speech, but Origo, 888.hu, Lokál, and others were too much in haste in writing their reports. Origo has since completely rewritten the article. When n1tv.hu, an internet television with ties to Jobbik, inquired about their “time machine,” the so-called journalists refused to respond. Even András Stumpf, a journalist who works for mandiner.hu, not exactly a liberal internet site, was horrified by Origo’s stunt of reporting an event that hadn’t yet taken place.

Fidesz in its recent attacks on Jobbik benefited greatly from the murder of a policeman by a far-right Hungarist, István Győrkös, a couple of days ago. During the early days of Jobbik, in the summer of 2009, the party signed a “cooperation contract” with some far-right groups, like Betyársereg (Outlaws) and the Hatvanhét Vármegye. the number of counties of Greater Hungary. These ties have now returned to haunt Jobbik. Origo wrote an article in which it claimed that over the years Jobbik has had a close relationship with the Hungarian National Front of István Győrkös, which is not the case. As HVG said, “reading the pro-government media we shouldn’t be surprised to learn that Vona is actually a member of a notorious Turkish terrorist organization.”

But these accusations stick, and Fidesz is doing everything in its power to perpetuate these stories. For example, Lajos Kósa, the leader of Fidesz’s parliamentary delegation, already indicated that the government should start an investigation to find out whether any political parties had ties to Győrkös’s Hungarist organization. Jobbik tried to publish several public announcements showing that these attacks lack any credible foundation, but MTVA, the super media authority above MTI that was supposed to publish their statements, simply refused to accept them. Jobbik is planning “to take the necessary steps,” which in Hungary means to sue MTI.

No question, it’s war, a very serious one, but will it achieve Viktor Orbán’s goal of annihilating Jobbik? Moreover, is it a smart political move to destroy the party? Orbán’s genius was to establish a political system inspired by a formula that worked beautifully between the two world wars. The party that remained in power throughout the period, though it bore different names, had two weak opponents: one on the left and one on the right. They were so far from each other ideologically that cooperation between them was unimaginable. Therefore, the government party was never seriously threatened. This is exactly what Viktor Orbán had in mind, and it has worked beautifully until now. But what will happen if Jobbik is pushed up against the wall and turns against Fidesz? What if it starts to cooperate with the opposition parties on the left? It could happen if Orbán goes too far in his zealous pursuit of his prey.

October 30, 2016
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exTor
Guest

I’m astounded by the thought of Jobbik and Fidesz switching places on the Hungarian political spectrum. A kinder gentler fascism? Is that the new look for Jobbik? Of course, Jobbik will have to rename itself. How about Majdnem Jobbik? That will give Fidesz the chance to trot out a new motto: Fidesz a Jobbik, az új legJobbik.

Regardless of anything else, Gábor Vona’s desire to reportray himself as a less-than-virulent fascist can only disconcert the rabid rightists still with Jobbik, the inevitable result being a split within Jobbik that Fidesz will try to help facilitate.

What will happen to Jobbik’s resident attack dog, Krisztina Morvai?

MAGYARKOZÓ

exTor
Guest

Forgot to mention that whoever caricatured Gábor Vona is not very bright. Mirrors are supposed to reverse images. All that bongo did was duplicate the Vona image onto the Ferenc Gyurcsány image.

Perhaps that says more about the level of intelligence within Fidesz. Ideal for trolls like Zero B, who can feel right at home with the other dimbulbs.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Guest

“Mirrors are suposed to reverse images.”

Are you sure about that?

comment image

PALIKA
Guest

Eva would you kindly remove Charle’s offensive posts and ban him from the blog?

bimbi
Guest

@Charlie, 4:13 a.m.

Dear Churl,
Please put an end at once to these offensive and irrelevant posts. They are out of place on this blog and contribute nothing towards sensible discussion. (At least there was no “London calling” perhaps it wasn’t you….)

Guest

Charlie can write interesting comments and offensive nonsense. I am afraid that we can’t have Dr. Jekyll without Mr. Hyde.

PALIKA
Guest

We do not want either. If he cannot stay sober long enough to control his foul tounge he should go and clearly he cannot. I repeat my earlier requests that he be banned from this blog. I do not see why users of the blog should be exposed to reading his insults and obscene gutter language. I am the prime sufferer and I regard his posts as a clear case of persecution and harassment. Eva please act without delay. Today’s repetition of his racist insults is a disgrace and tolerating it is irresponsible.

Guest

palika, this coming from you who calls Hillary Clinton a witch?

Are you also thinking about burning them witches at the stake?

Happy Halloween!

PALIKA
Guest

No burning anyone just keep her ftom WH

Guest

Come on!

Even more OT.

Maybe having a real (good) witch in the White House is not such a bad idea – I’m reminded of the novel “Conjure Wife” aka Burn, Witch, Burn … by one of my favourite authors:
Fritz Leiber (who also wrote great SF)

That novel was made into the film Night of the Eagle aka “Hypno” – and others:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Eagle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Leiber

webber
Guest

petofi
Guest

@ wolfi7777

re: Hillary

These many years removed, I still remember a great English teacher of mine who was a Freudian. As he told us, that meant that people revealed themselves in the small things they do. I was reminded of this when watching Hillary in the background to Michelle Obama’s intro some days ago when she listed some positives of Hillary’s character. Mrs. Clinton could be seen nodding her head repeatedly as she listened to the compliments.
How uncouth.
How immodest.
How ugly.

Again, what would Hillary know about the average American’s problems when she can run off and make $400,000 for a speech on a weekend? An average citizen couldn’t save that in 40 years of work!

webber
Guest

And what does Donald Trump know of the avg. American’s problems? He was born with a gold spoon in his mouth. Far, far richer than Clinton.
You have gone seriously off the deep end (again).
Could we, please, keep on topic?

Member

You’re right. But what about her contender? Orbán oder Vona. Of course they are the same.

Observer
Guest

Orbán is a PROVEN fascist and grand embezzler, Vona is a contender for the first and objector to the second. The most important point is that Orbán is raping and pillaging NOW.

webber
Guest

Stop with the “we” please. You represent just yourself, nobody else, no matter how many aliases you use, and no matter which organization you are working for. You will be judged for what you, personally, have done. We all will – all of us, including Ambassador Bogyay. And saying “I got orders” to do this or that, or “she was representing” this or that is no excuse whatsoever.

webber
Guest

Jobbik was a creation of Fidesz under the old constitutional and electoral system. Up until (and incl.) the elections of 2010, the Hungarian system favored coalition governments (forgive me if I don’t explain this) – that is, through coalition, two or more relatively weaker parties were significantly more likely to be able to form a government than one strong party, as long as that one strong party did not take more than 50% of the mandates.
Jobbik’s function, for Fidesz, was to attract extremist voters to a party Fidesz could handle, and to draw voters away from István Csurka’s extreme-r. MIÉP.
In 2010, Jobbik drew votes from disaffected leftists who were not willing to vote for Fidesz.
Now, however, Jobbik draws votes from Fidesz.
It seems that Fidesz may have created a monster it can not control.

Observer
Guest

I second this.

Joe Simon
Guest

It is a credit to Hungarian democracy that the wolf has been kept at bay for so long. Viktor Orbán must have been doing something right as a politician. Likewise, you should all use your formidable talents at HS to fight extremism in the US.
Trump is really an XL Jobbik. A Super Jobbik. It must be embarrassing for you that he got so far.

webber
Guest

Trump is closest to Orban and Fidesz, who have endorsed him in case you didn’t notice.
Of course, every healthy American is a bit embarrassed by Trump.
Just as every healthy Hungarian is embarrassed by Orban, and sickened that he endorsed Trump.
Jobbik is closest to the Ku Klux Klan.

Observer
Guest

Hungarian democracy was.

Orbán kept the Jobbik at bay, just as he “protected” the pension funds, he stole Jobbik’s agenda and implemented it, and is robbing the country blind.
He is the evil that be, not a potential one.

Member

Off our main topic today.

I made a short story, where no roots (outside the parentheses) are
Finno-Ugric, Indo-European (Slavic, Germanic, Latin or Iranian), Turkic (or Mongolian) or Caucasian. They do not imitate sounds either. They all have come from extinct, unknown languages.

“Orbánc Győző lezüllött.

Szokása (volt, hogy) bután, otrombán, gyáván csalt, lopott.
Vészes (a) helyzet.
Saját erkölcse, korlátja (nem volt), csak gyenge, szelíd idegentől csent erszénye.

Gyanú gyúlt, szégyen termett.
Szídtuk a csarnokban.

(Bár) díszes díjjal kent (meg) özvegyeket,
Gondban (van), gödörbe, mederbe mászott.
Vétett, bukott (és) bűnös.”

Member

Orbánc Győző pótolható.

Rideg, zordon helyen, csótányos, ocsmány börtönben ül.
Hamarosan süket (és) vak (lesz).

Edénye, bögréje, kanala gyatra.
(A leves) gyér (és) híg.

Nehéz, lomha (volt, de most) ösztövér, karcsú kan, csupán váz.
Harcsára, keszegre, pontyra, sügérre,
Lanyha combra, kebelre gondol.

Atkás, kullancsos, rühös.
(Senki sem) ápolja.
Hasán súlyos seb (van).
Nedves írt önt (rá).

Gyorsan épül (amiről) durva húron (fog) függeni, csüngeni.
Szegény ördögnek tűnik.

(De) bízik.
Bokros ligetet remél,
Eszköze fűrész (és) kutat ás.
Ádázul, makacsul, konokul, mogorván, dacosan, dühösen kúszik (az) ösvényen.

Guest

Google translate converted the first part of your story (parentheses removed) in primordial Hungarian into a first rate surrealistic poem. It may also be a quotation from “Finnegans Wake”.

“Erysipelas Gyozo depraved.

It was a habit of butane, clumsy, cowardly fraud, theft.
Too bad the situation is.
My ethics, a limit was not only weak, gentle stranger silence purse.

Suspicion flashed shame grown.
We blamed the hall.

While fancy awards lubricated by widows,
Do you have trouble, pit, climbed riverbed.
Made a fallen and sinful.”

Member

Jean,

Quand j’ai du temps, je vais faire une traduction. 🙂 [correct?]

The story is that
Viktor Orban(c) =[this is a bad skin disease]
stole, and cheated habitually.

People finally have had enough of this.
He now sits in a squalid jail, but he wants to get out.

Member

It is hilarious that Google translated “bután” into butane ….

exTor
Guest

Interesting exercise, tappanch. You state that the words you chose are not traceable to any known languages. Please cite your word source[s]. Thanx.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Member

Some Hungarian etymological dictionaries have the bad habit of using the term “belső keletkezésű szó” (word of internal origin) for words which do not have a proper etymology (yet), that is, neither cognates in other Finno-Ugric/Uralic languages nor donor languages from which the word was borrowed have been identified (yet). However, underived word stems (with the exception of expressive/imitative words) are very seldom if ever created “internally”, just out of nothing.
Sadly enough, I’m 120 km away from the nearest library with a decent etymological dictionary (and don’t even dream of finding a proper Hungarian etymological dictionary in the Internet…), so I’m not able to check whether these words really lack a well-known source. Many of them may really stem from extinct European or Eurasian languages. But it is also possible, perhaps even probable that some of them might have Finno-Ugric cognates which just haven’t been recorded or discovered yet, or that, after all, they have an Indo-European or Turkic origin.
Also, etymologically obscure words occur in other languages as well.

webber
Guest

Actually, this is not bad – a Hungarian etymological dictionary online:
http://www.szokincshalo.hu/szotar/

I have the 5 vol. A magyar nyelv történeti-etimológiai szótára sitting on my shelf here. That is superior to the online dictionary, but that said, the online one is not at all bad.

I will not check every word Tappanch has written above, because he has never lied in my experience, and I don’t see the point.
Just for fun, however, I looked in the first vol. of the 5 vol. work at bokor (1st recorded use 1055) /bokros (1451). The word is of unknown origin (ismeretlen eredetű).

Member

I left out the words that might still be traced to a proto-Uralian root.

Member

During their many centuries of wanderings, Hungarians must have absorbed small nomadic groups with isolate and now extinct languages.

Finno-Ugric, Chuvash Turkic and one or more unknown strata mixed together, later Ossetian Iranian, Slavic, Germanic were added to the mixture

Ket, Nivkh, Gilyak. are examples of almost extinct “language isolates” in Siberia.

Member

I suspect today’s foul-mouthed “charliecharlieh” is an impostor.
Why do I think so?

On October 25, a fake “tappanch” showed up. I noticed it quickly.
I changed my status from “guest” to “member” immediately.

In the case of “charliecharlieh”, he was in “guest” status last time he wrote here.
His language has never been, as far as I remember, vulgar.
His impersonator must have signed in his nickname as “member”, before he could have done it.

So our Charlie must change his blog name, while the “member” Charlie should be blocked.

Bowen
Guest

I think you’re right. The ‘member’ called ‘charliecharlieh’ has always been a ‘guest’. More to the point, Charlie has never used language such as we can see above.

There seems to be a deliberate and concerted attempt to corrupt the comments section of this blog.

(By the way, it’s very simple to change the IP address of your computer, so that is not a valid way for Eva to find out where comments are coming from. I could pretend to be posting from England, Russia, or any other country, very very easily.)

PALIKA
Guest

Now he writes as Member. He heads it up with London Calling which is itself prettty obnoxious. But in my view Eva should follow this up for reasons that are obvious. It is strange that if there was an impostor why the genuine guy never protested. No, it’s the same guy who should be removed.

exTor
Guest

Perhaps the answer to impostors and their crudities is to excise the offensive posts from Hungarian Spectrum as soon as they are discovered. Beyond that, there seems little else, given the ease of using different IP addresses. Eventually the turps [turpitudinous ones] will tire and retire.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Member

Legal news.

The Orban government wants to BAN hiring a lawyer on contingency basis.
(If you get $0 from the jury or court, the lawyer’s fee is $0, but if you win, the lawyer get a % of the award, fixed at the time of hiring).

If not-so -rich people have to pay a retainer fee, they will be unable or discouraged to protect their rights !

http://444.hu/2016/10/31/megszunteti-a-kormany-az-ugyvedi-sikerdijat

exTor
Guest

The correctness of the mirror’s image notwithstanding, the 888.hu caricature take on Gábor Vona makes him look prettyboy-faggy, a deliberate allusion to the gay rumors swirling the Jobbik head.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Member
“The End of the End of History” Prof. Kim Lane Scheppele (Princeton) November 2, University of Toronto, 4pm-6pm http://www.law.utoronto.ca/events/wright-lecture-prof-kim-lane-scheppele-princeton-university After the collapse of the Soviet Union, Francis Fukuyama pronounced the “end of history” when it seemed that the world was moving toward a consensus on the establishment of liberal, democratic, constitutional governments. Twenty-five years later, the number of liberal constitutional democracies is steadily declining, as states increasingly reject constitutionalism in liberal form. Instead, backsliding states are developing a new set of legal tools to maintain the façade of democracy and constitutionalism, while hollowing out the liberal content. The lecture will examine Hungary, Poland, Russia, Turkey, Venezuela and Ecuador as models of the new illiberal constitutionalism. In each case, strongman leaders have been elected in (more or less) free and fair elections and then they pull up the ladder of succession after themselves, concentrating power in few hands, disabling the opposition, and removing the independence of any institution that could provide checks. They modify or replace constitutions while turning their new forms of constitutionalism into the production of “worst practices.” This lecture shows why liberal constitutionalists have been losing the battle for hearts and minds of angry publics and proposes the… Read more »
Guest

Thanks, Stevan, for this and of course Prof Scheppele too.

I’m not a political expert so this is one of the greatest riddles for me. I’m really waiting for any kind of “explanation” of the new illiberalism!

Member

Dear professor.

I followed your line the last weeks and I have the deepest respect for your utterances. I do not have some kluger dinge to say to it. I feel only hopelessness concerning Hungary. Thank you for your perciverence.

Greeteng from Scandinavian.

webber
Guest

Palika feels he is abused here. Therefore, I suggest Palika be removed – cut off from commenting on this site – to protect him from abuse.

Member

Dear friends.

I have had the opportunity to learn some of the uralian, fennno-ugrian languages. I think I was the most northern hungarian for some years. I had my work in the far north of Sweden, Just outside of Kiruna. The people there were multilanguical. One third was only svedish speaking, one third was bilingual Swedish and Finnish speakers. And one third was trilingual, Swedish, Finnish and Lappish (Sami) speaking.
As a hungarian I learnt Finnish and began to learn
Lappish. Their Finnish is not the same as Finnish in Finland. You have to know Swedish to understand the lingo.
They very happy with some stranger who learned this odd language.

Member

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Guest

That wasn’t me neither was the one before) …

Btw though I’m registered with wordpress I still appear as guest – but I can update my comments, strange?

webber
Guest

For Petőfi:
comment image

webber
Guest

and:
comment image

Jean P.
Guest

The letter posted by Webber is not too much OT.

Guest

Not me – I have the blue avatar.

PS:
Jean, you’re right! It wasn’t me (I’m the one with the blue symbol)

Jean P.
Guest

There is a commenter crisis in HS. Several sensible and modest long time regulars have quit. Nevertheless there are more comments than ever because the pages have become a battlefield between obstinate regulars and (alleged or certified) trolls. I suggest that anybody who engages in a prolonged tit for tat exchange of comments be quaratined until Walpurgis Night.

Guest

I don’t know the solution, but something should be done. Btw you also appear as guest, Jean – are you alsoregistered with wordpress?

Member

Marosan Jr wrote a thoughtful, philosophical article about information flow in the internet age and the difficulty for most people to separate truth from deliberately fed lies.

http://hvg.hu/itthon/20160131_Tomegtajekoztatas_Gresham_torveny_Marosan

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