The great hope of the Hungarian right: Rex Tillerson as secretary of state

The revelations first disclosed by The Washington Post about possible Russian interference in the 2016 election to help Donald Trump win the presidency were received in Hungarian far-right circles with mixed emotions. Naturally, they identify with the president-elect, who is being portrayed by their media as Superman and the savior of the world. At the same time they find the possibility of Trump’s gaining the presidency with foreign help embarrassing. They even dug up a former secret service official, József Horváth from the Kádár era, who has close ties to Fidesz politicians. He announced with great confidence that “it is unlikely that the Russians intervened for the sake of Donald Trump’s victory.” Horváth’s expertise dates to the 1970s and 1980s, so he knows next to nothing about cyberspace or hacking. Even his reasoning is ridiculous. In his opinion, the claim of interference cannot be true because “such a hacker attack must have immediate legal and diplomatic consequences.” In the United States espionage is taken very seriously, but nothing has happened since the discovery of the alleged cyber crime. This nonsense was taken at face value by Magyar Idők, the government’s semi-official mouthpiece.

It is, however, Magyar Hírlap, the newspaper in which ranting demagogues like Zsolt Bayer and István Lovas publish their opinion pieces, that leads the way in Trump hero worship. Readers of Hungarian Spectrum are only too familiar with Bayer, but they most likely know little about Lovas, whom a couple of years ago I described as “one of the most unsavory characters in the Hungarian right-wing media.” Between 1976 and 1990 he lived in Montreal, Los Angeles, and Munich, where he was on the staff of Radio Free Europe’s Hungarian section. After his return to Hungary, he began working for decidedly right-wing publications. Although he has Jewish ancestry, he is an anti-Semite who received the Palestinian State’s “Objectivity” prize in 2002.

What Lovas cannot understand is how the CIA, which in 40 days will be under the thumb of Trump, dared to put forth a lie without any evidence of Russian support of Trump’s candidacy. The story is nothing more than “a long tale from the neoliberal/left-liberal Washington Post which regularly belches out fake news.” Moreover, Trump doesn’t care about the useless American intelligence reports and is ready to go against the “ruling elite,” which hoped that Trump would choose Mitt Romney, “one of the passengers on the irrational Russophobe hysteria train.” Romney is described by Lovas as someone close to the American defense industry who, if appointed secretary of state, would work hand in hand with the neocons already in the State Department.

But, thank God, Trump was brave and is rumored to have picked Rex Tillerson, an oil magnate and president of Exxon-Mobil “who has a good relationship with Russian President Putin.” Other less enthusiastic commentators describe the relationship between the two men as one of dependency. That is, Tillerson depended on his friendship with Putin to get oil deals done in Russia. Tillerson is described by politico.hu as the head of one of those Western companies who “were bowing and scraping before a man who had just shocked the world by violating international law” with the invasion of Crimea and who subsequently lobbied Washington to lift economic sanctions against Russia.

Rex Tillerson and Vladimir Putin are on very friendly terms

In connection with the nomination of Tillerson, Lovas attacks John McCain, The Washington Post’s “beloved Republican” who “called Orbán a fascist dictator” and who in an interview on Fox News called Putin “an aggressive character and a murderer.” McCain is “the mainstay of the genocidal U.S. policy in the Middle East.” Lovas wouldn’t be true to himself if he didn’t drag Israel into the discussion of Tillerson’s nomination. He cites an opinion piece titled “Thumbing Nose at Alleged Kremlin Debt, Trump Picks Putin’s Pal as Secretary of State” which appeared in Haaretz, adding that Jerusalem is bound to be disappointed by the choice of Tillerson.

A likely pro-Russian foreign policy naturally delights Lovas, although he sadly notes that the neocon John Bolton, former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, might become Tillerson’s deputy. “On our side” is also James Mattis, who is not really keen on the Russian president, “but we, supporters of Trump, are ready for compromise and we are satisfied with the fact that our sworn enemies feel that they are lying bleeding on the battlefield.” The sworn enemies of Hungary are, of course, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and the whole Democratic leadership. In his final sentence Lovas foresees the Democrats and Republicans like McCain one day standing before the International Criminal Court in The Hague.

Perhaps the most bizarre analysis of Donald Trump’s alleged decision to nominate Rex Tillerson comes from Viktor Attila Vincze, who writes for Magyar Idők and other right-wing publications. The article, whose title “Is Donald Trump ready to be America’s Gorbachev because of China?” took my breath away, appeared in 888.hu. What on earth is this man talking about? When I hear Gorbachev’s name, my first thought is the collapse of the Soviet Empire, which Vladimir Putin hasn’t been able to accept to this day. Let’s hope that Trump’s presidency wouldn’t have such grave consequences for the United States as Gorbachev’s term did for the Soviet Union. But no, Vincze views Gorbachev as the far-sighted politician who decided to end the cold war between the United States and the Soviet Union. Trump could end the unipolar world order with a diplomatic opening toward Russia “and toward other states” and perhaps, just like Gorbachev, he could end the war in Afghanistan. I assume Vincze would include Hungary among the “other states.”

If Trump wants to confront China, he has to change U.S. diplomacy toward Russia. Tillerson’s nomination “is the first significant step in this direction.” Vincze quite openly talks about Tillerson’s frustration over the sanctions that prevented Exxon-Mobil’s $500 billion deal with the Russian state company Rosneft. Obviously, Vincze doesn’t see any conflict of interest between Tillerson’s business dealings and his future role as secretary of state. Vincze hopes that Tillerson’s presence may result not just in the normalization of the relationship between Russia and the United States but also in a close friendship between the two countries. In this new world, Russia and the United States would be partners. This would put an end to the far too cozy relationship between China and Russia.

As you can see, the Hungarian right is very keen on close cooperation between Russia and the United States, and its spokesmen are counting on Donald Trump. The first sign that their hopes may be realized is Tillerson’s rumored nomination. If, however, the Washington Post is not just belching out another piece of fake news, this nomination is in danger of being blocked on the Hill, which may prompt Trump to go a different direction. That would sorely disappoint the Hungarian far right.

December 12, 2016
Sort by:   newest | oldest | most voted
Member
People writing/saying their opinions about the selection of the cabinet and the direction of Trump’s presidency in Hungary are relying on many different biased reports coming out of the US media. An industry which is not in the business of reporting factual news without bias, but rather, they are participant in politics with specific agenda and alliance to mostly the Democratic Party. The media bet everything on Hillary and the Democratic Party and they are for “business as usual” disregarding the best interests of the American people. They lost big time, not Hillary, but the media and the Democratic Party in Washington and in more than 30 states. Deservedly! Now they fabricate any news that puts the blame on the Russians, if that will proven to be wrong, they will find another scapegoat. What they would not do is to be honest and do the best for the American people and not for the rest of the World. I am not sure, Trump is able to do what is best for the US, but one thing I am sure, that Hillary and the Democratic Party would not, could not and did not want to do that. She just wanted power… Read more »
webber
Guest

Aha. And the CIA has a similar bias?
When the media went on and on and on about Clinton’s minor legal troubles, but didn’t say a damned thing about the fraud charges against Trump, it had a bias for Clinton?
Wake up, and stop repeating Putin troll army nonsense.

Member

I am awake and I can state my opinion. You have no right to order me to stop it. It is also not polite, nor it is a valid argument.

webber
Guest

‘Tis
You can disbelieve the CIA on Russian activities for Trump, and trust Trump if you like, but you’ll get called out on it by me for repeating Muscovite nonsense every single time you try to convince others that the allegations against Russia have no basis in reality.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

webber
Guest

When so many Republicans became the mouthpiece for Putin, I do not know, but it’s palpable now.

webber
Guest
Alex Kuli
Guest

Gyula Bognar Jr. – On this site, anyone whose opinion differs from Webber’s gets told to “wake up” or “shut up” or some such. He seeks to perfect Orban’s methods of thought control. Creates 10 new Trump voters with every keyboard stroke.

e-1956
Guest

I maintain that the State of Russia has been actively plotting against all other nations for the past 200 hundred years. It is almost unparalleled in history.
This system of active measures has been the roots of many international conflicts.
Let us be aware of this interference.

Guest

You probably know as well as others that Hillary got almost three million more votes than Donald – so that’s a “big loss”?

And you don’t have to rely on the “Lügenpresse” to get a bad opinion of Trump’sintelligence – just read a few of his tweets!

He sounds like a village idiot – but ok, many people think that the majority of the US citizens are just that:
Creationist racist village idiots with too many guns …
So Trump perfectly represents them!

webber
Guest

And the Democrats actually gained two seats in the Senate, which is unusual for a party which has held the White House for the past eight years, but if you listened to Trumphalists you’d never know.

Ferenc
Guest

All very nice, but as far as I know Republicans will have majority in both Senate and House.
So Democrats have won the votes, while Trump with Republicans have won the power and seats.

webber
Guest

Which is completely normal after 8 years of a presidency. What is unusual is that the president elect won with only a minority of votes, and that the party hitherto controlling the Senate won a couple of seats. If just a couple of Republicans vote against bills, they will not pass, and there are plenty of senior Senators who have already said they will not vote for everything the President wants (McCain, Cohen and Rand Paul, for example). The Republican majority in the Senate is so slim that if just four or five rep. senators vote against a bill, it will die.
It’s going to be an interesting four years.

webber
Guest

hitherto NOT controlling the Senate (above)

Rich
Guest

2 million votes… the electoral college decides the election so Trump worked an electoral college strategy in fact visiting Maine 4 times for its one electoral vote when he was at 269. Had the popular vote been the deciding factor his strategy would have worked the popular vote, but the popular vote does not determine the winner. The Democrats are misrepresenting Trump’s win and their loss with this irrelevant remark. I’m an urban American idiot.

https://www.academia.edu/7658814/Niche_Theory_Population_Transfer_and_the_Origin_of_the_Anti-Semitic_Cycle

Ferenc
Guest

“do what is best for the US” – What is that in your opinion?

“how Hungary will benefit from Trump”
At the moment only certain parties try to gain more support through ‘Trump wind’ in their back.
Personally can’t imagine any benefit specific for Hungary coming from the next presidency.

webber
Guest

Neither can I.
Given what Trump has said so far, I could imagine him raising import taxes against EU products, and that can only damage the Hungarian economy. Then there are his comments about NATO members paying their way, or leaving the alliance. Well, Hungary is not paying its way in terms of % of budget allocated to defense. So, there’s another potential point of trouble for Hungary.

petofi
Guest

@ BJr.

I hated Hillary with the best of them. In fact, I hold her responsible for the Trump win because if she and the Dem opportunists hadn’t torpedoed Bernie, Sanders would’ve beaten Trump by 20%.

It was the despicable, tough-as-kryptonite edge of Hillary’s ambition that has brought the Trump presidency to pass. No doubt, Pyutin saw a chance in Hillary’s unlikeability to ‘mess around’ in the elections, too.

Trump does best as a hater. Anyone thinking that Trump will do what’s best for America has not witnessed his edgy contrarianess. Trump is a malicious mocker. There’s a similarity in character between Trump and Orban–neither care a fig for their people.

As for Romney…having been made a total fool again by Trump, I wonder if he has what it takes to win back his dignity-

Member
We don’t know what the Trump Presidency will do, good or bad, we know it will be different. We do know what a Hillary Presidency would do and it would been indifferent. That is why Trump got the vote from those, who want something different. —- There is a good proverb; Be careful what you wish, you might just get it.” I am not for either one of those mentioned above, I am just fed up with a brainwashing media, that is operating with a political agenda and politicians who are tolerating that the media dictates policies and distorted truths are leading us in the wrong direction, making errors, diminishing the strength of the country. The media (their owners and editors) has directives, no country can be substantially stronger than the rest, there should be “One World” so they can sell their political ideology without restrictions and dictate opinion for the masses, so the brainwashed people, spoon-fed with their lies and opinions elect the politicians they prefer. The media is not only the fourth pillar of the power, but they want to be the governing force around the world, without scruples, loyalty to anyone but their own interest. (It is… Read more »
Guest

So you are comparing or even equalling the North Korean – sorry, Hungarian state tv with independent tv like the BBC?

I think you are out of your mind!

“The Media” is nonsense – from experience I know that there are many different opinions there, from left to liberal and conservative.

PS:
And now I’m waiting for code words from you like NWO …

PPS:
You almost sound like one of those lunatic conspiracy sites – here’s a prime example:
http://www.rense.com/
At all others:
If you don’t have a strong stomach, then stay away from this – you’ve been warned!

Member

Warned? Which media outlet are you working for – you did not say?

Guest

Don’t misinterpret me, please! I’m retired …

I’mjust warning people to be careful when reading stuff like this conspiration site http://www.rense.com/
Re the mainstream media:
Here’s a nice diagram of the different news sites:
http://imgur.com/7xHaUXf

bimbi
Guest

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/top-10-signs-that-a-us-president-is-a-russian-spy-2016-12-13
“Opinion: Top 10 signs that a U.S. president is a Russian spy”
Well, you know you have a problem with a new US president when you see articles like this…

Istvan
Guest

Even if Trump accepted the CIA analysis as valid, he would never publicly admit it. It would undermine his legitimacy, the liberal media in the USA is blowing this up as are the Democrats. We have no way of knowing the electoral impact of the Russians releasing Democrat hacked emails, but not the Republican ones. I am not a Trump supporter and I don’t see him as a Putin agent, or Manchurian candidate.

Istvan
Guest

I do not think the entire Hungarian media understand American nationalism. This interview with Steve Bannon might help explain it http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/11/18/steve-bannon-vows-economic-nationalist-movement-white-house-exciting-1930s-greater-reagan-revolution/

The Trump/Putin dynamic is driven by strategic thinking on the far right in the USA to contain China at any and all costs even conceding Central Europe to a Russian sphere of influence. I believe Putin is fully aware of this thinking and will utilize this alliance and could then turn to block with China against the USA. The combined Chinese/Russian economic and military power could be too much for the USA and our role as a global hegemon could end. I would say this is the general concern with people like Senator McCain too, but he would never use a concept like global hegemony as I do.

In the meantime the USA and Russia will likely unleash destruction on a massive scale on all Islamic extremists with very limited concern for collateral damage.

petofi
Guest

@Istvan

This is nonsense, old sport. The Chinese danger is not really to the US or Europe but to Russia. You’ll see…

webber
Guest

petofi
on that, I couldn’t agree more. China is a threat to Russia above all.

Member

Meanwhile, the joker is trying to pull a Gyurcsany on Vona. Gy was an innocent victim; V & V deserve one another. T’s a big fan…
comment image
comment image
comment image

webber
Guest

Decent Republicans are also concerned about Russia’s influence in the Trump admin:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/marco-rubio-i-have-serious-concerns-about-rex-tillerson-nomination-135731651.html

Vova
Guest
No matter what the US does the days when it was the sole world power are over. But just as Hungary could not cope with Trianon in a 100 years the US is unable to accept this new reality. The empire is in decline no matter what Trump will do – and potential clients all over the world already sensed this weakness (Trump himself is a symptom of this terminal decline). I hope the US won’t (de facto) cede CEE to Russia as Istvan thinks because the US will surely gain nothing in return especially not in the long term. The Russian strategists are just smarter. The problem is that facing this fact is irreconcilable with the American mindset (all the better for Russia and China). The Russian leaders and strategists just as their Chinese counterparts play for the very long term. They can afford to wait. These societies have different time frames for planning and strategy. Basically they count in centuries and not in 4 year increments. They don’t have to worry about changing public opinions or elections. They set a strategy once and then stick to it for ever. In the US or in Europe strategy and people… Read more »
Istvan
Guest
I doubt Tillerson will mess up any alliance with Russia, both he and Trump may be “gamed” by Putin however as Vova suggests. As a loyal American I have to say that my country is now on overreach being the world policeman and enforcer of order. Whatever plan Trump, Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn, Trump’s pick for national security adviser, and General Mattis his Sec of Defense, come up with to destroy Islamic extremists I hope it doesn’t involve another massive deployment of troops to the middle east. But there is one factor Vova that is radically different in relationship to the decline of US hegemony than with all other global powers of the past, we have a vast arsenal of thermal nuclear weapons. I would like to think we would never use those weapons, even tactical ones, to maintain the status quo in the world. But Trump stated that it was his position that he would be the “last to use nuclear weapons” during an April 2016 interview with NBC’s Today show. But he said the option is still on the table. “I don’t want to rule out anything,” he said. “I will be the last to use nuclear weapons.… Read more »
Member

Istvan: you do realize that you’re “debating” with an FSB goon (“Vova”) who is not expressing an honest opinion but rather spreading pro-Russian disinformation designed to weaken Western institutions, right? You do realize that, right?

e-1956
Guest

shoopy is right.
even smart people often take disinformation seriously.

2016
Guest

Vova is too abstract, too theoretical. Real disinformation generator.

The USA is power, the American people can move mountains.

The Chinese society is paralized by its leaders.

Russia is the greatest mess. Most Russians are living in proverty.

Even Trump can not lose America.

Guest

For those who can read German:

A disturbing article in the conservative (!) German newspaper FAZ on the strategy of Trump and how his son in law Kushner used the internet and the social media for the right wing propaganda – including databses containing lots of info on the US citizens.:
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/wahl-in-amerika/donald-trump-siegt-bei-us-wahl-2016-durch-social-media-14559570.html
Haven’t seen anything on this yet in US media – though NYT and HuffPost etc should report on it?

TKT
Guest

The Washington Post and New York Times are two completely discredited publications. They remind one of the Soviet Pravda, a cheap government propaganda & disinformation tool. Not long ago, they were showing us Saddam Hussein’s Weapons of Mass Destruction, Al-queda connection, and African nuclear tubes on their headlines… A well informed person would get his information elsewhere. And if you want real investigative journalism, you need to stay away from the American mainstream media.

Guest

Very funny! So you get your info from breitbart.com etc?
Or from Russia Today?

Istvan
Guest

wolfi I do now read brietbart almost every day. To be honest I get a better understanding of the logic, and illogic, of the Trump transition process from reading brietbart than reading many other news sources here in the USA. Many liberals simply can’t understand the differences between Speaker Paul Ryan and Steve Bannon on different issues. Its all a fog of right wing alien ideology to many liberal reporters. The entire discussion of what “alt-right” means when used by liberal news papers like the NY Times is interesting.

But when your read commentators on brietbart going at who is a globalist amongst the Republicans and who is a nationalist its eye opening. Reading the blood thirsty commentary on killing jihadists, or discussions of running black activists off the streets who are questioning the authority of the police in cities gives one an understanding of the dimensions of the alt-right supporting Trump.

Guest

Wow, Istvan! You must have a strong stomach …

Some time ago I read an article on breitbart (spelling!) re Germans fleeing to Hungary because they were afraid that Germany would be overtaken by Muslims – the comments were so horrible and lunatic that I had to stop.

I can’t stand more than one breitbart article per week …

petofi
Guest

Istvan,

did you shine your guns today ?

Observer
Guest

TKT

If you’re not Hungarian or American, you should be – they are both absolute suckers for conspiracy theories – the grander the better, never mind gravity and round Earth…
You sure get your information from somewhere very “elsewhere”.

wpDiscuz