Fidesz censorship in Transylvania

Today I am venturing into an area about which I know relatively little: the situation of the Hungarian media in Transylvania. Keeping track of the media within the country’s borders is hard enough. I have little time to browse Hungarian news sites outside of the country. I’m not alone, it seems. The Transylvanian-born Gáspár Miklós Tamás, or, as he is known in Hungary, TGM, noted lately that Hungarian-Hungarians are neither interested in nor knowledgeable enough about local affairs to be able to follow the Transylvanian Hungarian media.

I’ve written several posts in the past about Viktor Orbán’s determination to have control over Hungarian political parties in the neighboring countries. As early as 2010 Fidesz refused to finance or even recognize parties that had in any way cooperated with the political majority. In Slovakia the successful Most-Híd party was not even accepted as a Hungarian party because its membership included Slovaks as well as Hungarians. Instead, the Orbán government poured money into the Party of the Hungarian Coalition, which since 2010 has never been represented in the Slovak parliament. Most-Híd, on the other hand, has been an active participant in Slovak politics and is currently a coalition partner in the third Fico government.

Something similar was going on in Transylvania as well. Ever since 1989 Romanian-Hungarian voters have been exclusively represented by the Democratic Alliance of Hungarians in Romania or RMDSZ. The Orbán government, however, was anything but satisfied with the party because RMDSZ off and on participated in Romanian coalition governments. Relations between the Budapest government and RMDSZ deteriorated to the point that Orbán opted to support a right-wing party in Romania called Magyar Polgári Párt (MPP). The hope was that MPP would be strengthened to the point that it could assume the leading role in Romanian-Hungarian politics. By 2014, however, when it became clear that MPP would not be able to compete successfully against RMDSZ, Orbán had to change tactics. Hungarian politicians were dispatched to patch up the political division between the two Transylvanian parties to ensure that Hungarians would have representation in the Romanian parliament. Viktor Orbán even went to Transylvania to campaign on behalf of RMDSZ. But although the Orbán government had to give up its original idea, it didn’t leave Romania empty-handed. In exchange for its support, it seems, the RMDSZ leadership had to agree to some major concessions.

With this lengthy introduction, we have arrived at the “compromise” between the party of Transylvanian Hungarians and the Budapest government. In return for the generous support Budapest is now providing to RMDSZ, Fidesz demands obedience and total ideological identification with the Orbán government’s far-right political orientation. RMDSZ until now had given money to publications that were somewhat critical of the Orbán government. No longer. Viktor Orbán demanded the cleansing of all “objectionable” publications.

The first victim was Erdélyi Riport published in Kolozsvár/Cluj. RMDSZ was financing the publication through a foundation which is apparently quite well endowed. The Erdélyi Riport had been in existence for 14 years, but the foundation recently informed the editors that due to a lack of money the publication “will be suspended for an indefinite period of time.”

An internet news site called maszol.ro has also run into difficulties with RMDSZ and its foundation. At the beginning of December the editors of maszol.ro, successor to Új Magyar Szó, refused to publish an article that criticized Péter Szijjártó’s “instructions” to Hungarian diplomats to boycott Romania’s national holiday. The author of the article was immediately fired. The same thing happened a few days ago to Hugó Ágoston, the editor responsible for maszol.ru‘s op-ed page. Ágoston, a well-respected journalist in Transylvania, believes that the reason for his dismissal was his “criticism of the Hungarian government’s anti-democratic policies, especially its poisonous hate campaign and its treatment of the media, in particular the elimination of Népszabadság.

Hugó Ágoston

Although the Hungarian media in Transylvania was never entirely independent since it always relied on RMDSZ for funding, for a long time there was an understanding that RMDSZ wouldn’t foist any ideology on the publications it financed. That changed over the last year or so when Orbán reached an “understanding” with RMDSZ. Ágoston in his letter to kettosmerce.blog emphasized the necessity of returning to the pluralism that existed before 2014. I’m sure that Ágoston doesn’t really believe that this is going to happen any time soon. The fired journalist’s farewell article can be read here.

TGM in his article rightly points out that the Orbán government’s meddling in the affairs of a foreign country is worrisome and legally questionable. The Romanian government also supports Hungarian publications, and therefore it might be troubling to Bucharest that “the Hungarian publications in Romania are being edited, censored, directed, or banned either from the private residence of Viktor Orbán or from the Prime Minister’s Office.” It is truly amazing that Orbán refuses to tolerate even the very small liberal community that exists in Transylvania where the overwhelming majority of Hungarians are loyal supporters of Fidesz. His goal is total control at home as well as abroad.

January 4, 2017
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LwiiH
Guest

did you mean Belgrade or Bucharest? Feel free to delete this comment

Anton Rudik
Guest

I think there should be Bucharest instead of Belgrade.

“The Romanian government also supports Hungarian publications, and therefore it might be troubling to Belgrade that “the Hungarian publications in Romania are being edited, censored, directed, or banned either from the private residence of Viktor Orbán or from the Prime Minister’s Office.”

Istvan
Guest

Off topic but relevant to prior posts on the blog. 888.hu which can more than reasonably be seen as a front for Fidesz ran polling data today that it claims shows a steady decline in support for the Jobbik party since it began its “bridge” program, under which it targeting historic left-wing voters. http://888.hu/article-olvad-a-jobbik-szavazotabora

All the polling data comes from Századvég the Fidesz think-tank. Even more interestingly are other articles appearing in Origo today on a left right block against Fidesz, including a longer one by András Kovács discussing a history of right left blocks and concluding: “Against this background, it can be assumed that if the Jobbik finally conclude an agreement with left-wing forces, that it can mean the end of the party.” (My translation)

Eva is an announcement of an electoral coalition between the left liberal opposition and the Jobbik nearing, or is Fidesz trying to inoculate its voters and create trouble inside the Jobbik Party?

Istvan
Guest

Off topic but 888.hu which can more than reasonably be seen as a front for Fidesz ran polling data today that it claims shows a steady decline in support for the Jobbik party since it began its “bridge” program, under which it targeting historic left-wing voters. http://888.hu/article-olvad-a-jobbik-szavazotabora
All the polling data comes from Századvég the Fidesz think-tank. Even more interestingly are other articles appearing in Origo today on a left right block against Fidesz, including a longer one by András Kovács discussing a history of right left blocks and concluding: “Against this background, it can be assumed that if the Jobbik finally conclude an agreement with left-wing forces, that it can mean the end of the party.” (My translation) NÉPSZAVA also ran an article about this without questioning the validity of the polling data today which was interesting.
Eva is an announcement of an electoral coalition between the left liberal opposition and the Jobbik nearing, or is Fidesz trying to inoculate its voters and create trouble inside the Jobbik Party?

Member

Yet another of many toxic traits Orban shares with Trump: thin skin, intolerance of opposition or criticism (“dissing”), vengefulness, ad lib lying on anything and everything, greed, amorality, braggartry, opportunism, nepotism, limitless corruption. Among the few traits they don’t share is Orban’s traumatic aversion to live debate and Trump’s dream of super-stardom. Both narcissists, Trump’s brand is more in-your-face and grotesque. I suspect that Orban is also more of a control freak, but that’s only because Trump is more scatter-brained and lazy. Neither is particularly bright, both play to the crowd (and mostly to the crowd’s hatreds and fears), but Trump gets more of a kick from the live thrills of showmanship whereas Orban prefers behind-the-scenes domination.

petofi
Guest

One major difference: Orban wants to ruin the country–Trump wants to ruin his enemies.

Observer
Guest

Petofi,

Orban, like most of this character, wants to ruin everything which stands in his way or which he doesn’t like. He knows no compromise if he is on top, he always needs sooth his complex. Hit him hard and he runs or licks, until the next opportunity to bite your back that is.
No particular wish to ruin the country, he basks in his role of an imagined great leader. He just doesn’t give a damn how much his wishes cost (and doesn’t understand economy).

webber
Guest

Four major differences:
1. Trump is seventy. His time on this planet is likely to come to an end before Orban’s, and he seems likely to lose his facilities sooner than Orban.

2. There are term limits in the US, but not in Hungary. So, Trump can do his damage for at most 8 years. Then it is over. There is no time limit on Orban.

3. Both are narcissists, but I am convinced that Orban is suffering from another, organic mental illness as well. Trump is not.

4. Trump had a huge fortune before he came to office. He does not need the power to further enrich himself or his friends.

Member

1. Trump can do centuries’ worth of damage to the planet in 4 years. (Lose faculties? They’re both rather dim lights; they’re both sustained by playing to their respective deplorables.)

2. Same as 1.

3. You’re probably right about Orban’s extra mental illness, but Trump shows plenty of (other) clinical signs too: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/the-mind-of-donald-trump/480771/

4. Yes, Trump was rich before the deplorables put him in the White House (whereas Orban has been stealing his dosh through his office) but they both had fathers with cash and Trump did not make his fortune; he has just been either treading water or losing on his huge paternal start-up wad: https://www.quora.com/Did-Donald-Trump-inherit-a-lot-of-money-and-then-increase-his-net-worth-at-an-unremarkable-rate

(But what a pair the deplorables have bequeathed us for the history books, huh? And their clones are suppurating left and right…)

Guest
No point in angry bellyaching and name-calling like this. Whilst resistance to the Orbans, Trumps and the rest of their ilk is important, rather than endless futile fuming about the damage that they may or may not wreak upon their respective countries or even upon the world during their terms of office, we must start figuring what must be done to reverse the situation that had arisen. But before we do so, we must honestly look facts in the face and must sheet home the responsibility for the disasters of 2010 in Hungary, and 2016 in Britain and the USA. Thus, what we should be totally peeved and pissed off about right now is the political bankruptcy of bumbling and hapless liberal democratic leadership(s) – if they can be called that – that in country after country have taken their eyes off the main game and let the ball slip out of their hands.The EU and the Euro are teetering on the edge, and the North Atlantic liberal democratic leadership(s) utterly failed in Politics 101, utterly failed in Communication 101 and above all, utterly failed in Economics 101. With the best of good intentions, of course. The trouble is that… Read more »
petofi
Guest

Personally, I’d like to know how the Democrats could go from 2008 and,
a) the Presidency
b) control of the Senate
c) control of the House

to 2016 where they have lost all three.
Now, where were the genius prognosticaters to point out, in the intervening years, the continuous bleeding
of the Democratic party and its followers.

Please tell us how it came to pass and was never reported on…

webber
Guest

To me, that just seems like a natural outcome of democracy. What is unnatural in democracy, and generally a sign that it is not a democracy, is when one party continues to dominate the system for many electoral cycles.

webber
Guest

Orban’s father was not wealthy before Orban got into office (the first time), and Orban has inherited nothing from him (he’s still alive, after all).

Istvan
Guest

Recommendation Stevan you drop the “deplorables” label. You are much more intelligent than that as has been obvious for years by your posts. If it is deplorable to be economically distressed and white in America with inbreed presumptions of entitlement for just being white then make the case. I suspect there are some Québécois and Acadian whites in Canada that share those traits, as there are white English speaking Canadian whites in the province of Alberta that also share these traits.

Istvan
Guest

On Trump voters this short opinion piece may be enlightening http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/05/opinion/why-rural-america-voted-for-trump.html?_r=0

Member
“[R]ural America that immerses many young people in a culture…that… views liberals as loathsome, misinformed and weak, even dangerous.” “The difference between Republicans and Democrats is that Republicans believe people are fundamentally bad, while Democrats see people as fundamentally good” “If I have a serious heart attack at home, I’ll be cold to the touch by the time the volunteer ambulance crew from a town 22 miles away gets here.” “Many moderate rural Republicans became supporters of Mr. Trump when he released his list of potential Supreme Court nominees who would allow the possibility of overturning Roe v. Wade.” “When Ted Cruz campaigned… a couple of dozen grade-school pupils sat at his feet, as if they were at a children’s service at church. His campaign speech was nearly a sermon, and the children listened wide-eyed when he told them the world is a scary place, and it’s godly men like him who are going to save them from the evils of President Obama, Hillary Clinton and their fellow Democrats.” “Rural conservatives feel that their world is under siege, and that Democrats are an enemy to be feared and loathed.” And your point is? That they are deplorable because they are… Read more »
Member
— The Deplorables, the Decents, and the Pitifuls I’m afraid I still know no more accurate word for anyone voting for Trump, having seen and heard what he has to say for 30 seconds, than “deplorable.” And for those who did that, whatever their motivations, the word is “deplorables.” Hilary had it only half-right: The basket is not half-full. The (compos mentis) Trump voters are all deplorables. For making possible what’s about to happen for at least the next four years, and its potential impact for centuries or even millennia, the word “deplorable” is a genteel understatement. To excuse or justify this irresponsible and potentially disastrous folly on the grounds that it was just citizens exercising their constitutional rights — that the will of the people has been expressed, and that that makes it right — would be tantamount to saying that OJ Simpson is really innocent because a jury said so. (Except that perhaps the facts were not quite so obvious in the OJ, so those jurors are better describes as “deluded” than “deplorable.”) What the Trump voters have done is really deplorable, and their title is well-deserved. It is the decent majority, not just in the US but… Read more »
webber
Guest

Stevan – this is excellent on some Trump voters. Not deplorables, I think you might say, after you watch it:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2016/oct/12/west-virginia-donald-trump-supporters-mcdowell-county-poverty-video

Guest

Thanks, webber!

We had something similar in Germany in the “Ruhrgebiet” – when I was there the first time fifty years ago it was horrible (the smog, the stink …) then coal and iron business dropped – but the whole area was rejuvenated!

I’ve also been to Sheffield in England around 45 years ago – horrible too!

Now we see the same problems in China …

Totally forgot:

The Ruhrgebiet however has always been a stronghold of the German Social Democrats and the Unions – so I don’t really get it why these people in the USA now vote for a predatory capitalsit like Trump.

Member
Yes, @webber, you are right. The people in this documentary, and whatever proportion of the Trump voters is like them, are not deplorables. We need another “d” word for them, and I think there are two: (1) desperate (because of circumstances) and (2) deceived (by Trump). In their dreadful condition, it’s probably too much to expect that they should be alert to the nuances in the difference between data (Hillary) and demagoguery (Trump). But what percentage of the Trump electorate do you think falls into this desperate category? So desperate that they can, on the one hand, blame their circumstances (with justification) on (a) the greedy and heartless wealthy and the fork-tongued politicians and, on the other, (b) vote, with complete gullibility, for the greediest and forkedest-tongued of them all: the one that’s going to do them more harm than anything that came before? My heart goes out to them. But I somehow feel they are not a representative sample of the Trump electorate. There are a lot more like the ones described in the other article, the NY Times article cited by @Istvan: much more comfortable, but bigoted, small-minded, and full of hate. And second question: What percentage of… Read more »
petofi
Guest

People miss the point on “deplorables”. Nice term. I would reserve it for the Democratic party structure and for that die-hard, piranha-tic Hillary Clinton
whose greed and ambition
really brought the Trump-phenomenon to be.

Let me try the stupidest word of the last many years–LEGACY. I daresay, that Hillary’s legacy will be the activation of the Trump Presidency…

webber
Guest

Stevan,
For not unrelated reasons, not a few Native Americans (the poorest “demographic” in the US) voted for Trump. After eight years, many of them felt stiffed by the Democrats, and not without reason. The protests on the Standing Rock Reservation started under Obama.
Many Black voters, also, were “underwhelmed” by Clinton.
I don’t know what percentage of Trump voters are racist. Clearly more than the national avg.
This video is good on both the racism of SOME Trump supporters, and on why some poor Black people were not willing to vote for Clinton:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2016/oct/18/milwaukee-wisconsin-segregation-young-black-voters-election-video

So, yes, there are some deplorables in Trump’s camp, but (as you now agree) it is deeply deplorable to call all Trump voters deplorables.

webber
Guest

Stevan – I am certain that the drastic rise in the cost of “Obamacare” in October helped Trump. The program was meant to be affordable health care for the working poor. One state announced rate increases of 76%. That is unsustainable and unjustifiable.
Article here:
http://time.com/money/4535394/obamacare-plan-premium-price-increases-2017-states/

Observer
Guest

ambalint
… A semi-fascistic populist nationalism run by nepotistic mafiosi …

Love it.
I agree with your points, but in the poisoned political environment in Hun, with more hate being pumped daily, it is hard to refrain. It has proved very effective to verbally hit mid-class fideszniks hard, if politely. They are usually taken aback and cut their routine self congratulatory or spiteful tirades. Admittedly, I am not given many further opportunities or the conversations avoid politics.

Actually the polite ones taking substance and advancing logical arguments are exactly the libdems so maligned and despised by the fideszniks as wimpy, un-Hungarian, weaklings, whom the ancient, warrior type Magyar vanquish (note Orban’s frequency in using big, strong, historical, struggle, victory). Classical fascist ideology, to keep the dupes proud and happy while they are being screwed.

petofi
Guest

@ webber

Trump looks in better shape than Orban, who also seems to be suffering from mental illness.

Huge fortune–I bet you not. He almost went bankrupt a few years ago. You also haven’t noticed that he’s not building anymore, just selling his name.
I don’t think he’s worth a billion. He’s mortgaged/leveredged to his eye-balls. So…smoothing the way for some monster concerns like the health/insurance lobby; beginning a new arms race…etc. etc. will certainly boost the future well being of himself and the lovely Ivanka (and the rest).

webber
Guest

Petofi. I wish you were right, but “the experts” say Trump’s net worth is 3.7 bn. dollars. Not million. Billion. This is based largely on his real estate holdings, which are enormously valuable. There’s an article in Forbes on this: http://www.forbes.com/donald-trump/

petofi
Guest

“worth”

I suspect that people who write of a person’s worth refer to general worth and not net worth. Trump is heavily mortgaged.

webber
Guest

Political leaders in Belgrade and Bucharest could not care less about Orban’s meddling in the ever-shrinking Hungarian-speaking communities in Serbia (3.5% of total pop. in 2011) or Romania (6.1% of pop.). The negative example of the economy, politics and media in Hungary has just increased the already fast rate of de-Hungarianization in these countries. Being Hungarian has never been less attractive (just writing this makes me sad).

Guest

And similar to the situation in Hungary:

Everybody that sees a chance is leaving (or has already left …) for the West!

Bastiat2
Guest

It seems that things are quite similar to the communist times. the only difference is that there are no longer miradors and guys ready to shoot at anyone opting out. But the result is the same. Hungary is loosing its elite. A parallel could be made with France where successful entrepreneurs also have to leave the country if they do not want to give most of their hard earned money to the socialist state.

Ferenc
Guest

Your comparison of Hungary wth France is utter nonsense

Guest

And the more the able and energetic leave, the easier is the job of controlling the sheeple that remain.

Guest

An excellent point. Those Hungarians who wish to succeed in Romania or Serbia or Slovakia are no doubt doing their best to assimilate and integrate into their respective mainstream societies, and there is more than likely a great deal of intermarrying too. Given this, the issue of over-the-border Hungarians is likely to very largely disappear in a couple of generations in urban environments, though may linger on a lot longer in majority-Hungarian villages, not unlike the case of tiny Csángó communities on the Eastern slopes of the Transylvanian Alps in Moldova. Paradoxically, the more primitive a diasporic small ethnic community is, the less likely to be much effected by the centripetal pull of mainstream society, particularly if the social, cultural and linguistic resistance of that small diaspora is actively supported by centrifugal forces emanating from an external Motherland.

marklh
Guest

MPP is but one of the parties and organizations financed by Orbán to counter, weaken, and ultimately defeat, RMDSZ in Romania. A host of others like Erdélyi Magyar Nemzeti Tanács, Erdélyi Magyar Néppárt, the so-called Democracy Centers (Demokrácia Központ) set up to “help” applicants fill out their Hungarian citizenship applications (while emphasizing that that citizenship is a kind of a personal gift of Orbán’s), along with a host of “counter-RMDSZ” foundations were, and for the most part are still, heavily funded to spread the current Hungarian govt’s populist-nationalist propaganda, and more importantly, to build a clientele to deliver essential (in fact, rather symbolic) votes in elections, and more recently, in referendums. Granted, in 2016 something changed. Béla Markó himself declared recently that he was “especially content, that Fidesz [has finally] understood that it was not worth investing energies and money into (political) organizations outside RMDSZ.” (http://www.maszol.ro/index.php/nemzetpolitikai-lapszemle/73991-egy-het-magyarsagpolitikai-irasaibol-december-7-13) . I wonder what he is thinking now that his inept successor at the helm of RMDSZ makes such dirty deals with the Hungarian Prime Minister. A disgrace, if you ask me.

Bastiat2
Guest

I would not call Orbán far right. he is just a despot, whose sole political line is a) staying in power by whatever means it takes b) making as much money for himself and his family/clan, in particular by embezzling as much money that comes from the EU to his country as possible, only made possible by the immense weakness of this European feeble Union. In this respect, he is very similar to some African despots, who suddenly can buy 20 millions euros villas in the French Riviera.
Political position comes far behind.

Ferenc
Guest

You’re quit right here. I only would replace ‘not’ with ‘not (yet)’ in all of what you state. Staying in power is OV’s main goal, but what he will do, if succeeding (very hopefully NOT), isn’t clear at all. And overviewing his movement till now, he is surely going into a ‘right’ direction.
This all makes him the most dangerous ‘politician’ from a real democratic point of view.

Observer
Guest
Bastiat2 Re. “far right”, the Orban regime has: – implemented 8 out of the 10 points of the old Jobbik program. – eliminated all checks and balances in government. In many cases illegally, as even the current laws call for neutral, objective, professional appointments in key public offices, – voided the legislative role of parliament, abusing the institution of member’s bill or otherwise turning it into a rubber stamp body, issuing hundreds of acts, often ad hoc, tailor made or retroactive, all unconstitutional practices, – regularly defied the rule of law by knowingly legislating/regulating or acting in contradiction with existing laws or international agreements, – centralized government on all and any occasions, eliminating many professional inputs and extensively by appointing commissars (megbizott), – drastically weakened local government stripping it of rights and funds, – turned, illegally, the state media into a party mouthpiece, – repressed financially and intimidated the independent media, while financing friendly one by public money, – stripped the trade unions and all civil organizations of any real power and ignores, often illegally, their remaining rights/contribution, – routinely intimidated NGOs by tax audits, police raids, some arrests, police investigations and criminal charges, – imposed strict control on, has… Read more »
Ferenc
Guest
OT Came across a recent interview with Jan-Werner Muller (in print and not available digitally). Searched more from/about him and found a lecture by him titled ‘What Is Populism?’ (held 2015.Nov in Amsterdam), in this tries to define populism, which in his opinion is a real threat to democracy. He uses, next to Putin and Erdogan, many examples our ‘most favourite’ populist OV and ‘his’ Hungary. (intro ca.5min / lecture ca.50min / questions ca.20min) Items he touches in the lecture are: Obama (claims about him not born in USA), referendums!, Hungary 2002, claiming exclusive representation, conspiracy. Also populism in both opposition and in power (Hungary!), and many more, so very interesting!! He recently published a book ‘What Is Populism?’ about the subject, and I found that he was a subject in several posts here by Eva. When thinking back to Hungarian elections in 2002, after the 1st OV government, I remember one specific thing, which he doesn’t mention in the lecture, is: Fidesz asking their supporters to show their support by (after March.15) keep wearing the ‘kokarda’. I was working during that period in Hungary and some colleagues came to work with that very national symbol on. To me as… Read more »
Arthur Nádas
Guest

Why just Belgrade?

webber
Guest

Orban’s goal is to silence all Hungarian media in Romania that might be likely to mention his personal property in Romania (hotels, farms, and forests).

Guest

Rather OT but interesting maybe in showing that some people will believe what they want to believe:

(In)famous propaganda site breitbart had a report on “Thousand Muslims put a German church on fire on New Year’s Eve” – Horrible, n’est ce pas?

Of course it was a total lie – there was a big party in the city center and one firecracker accidentally got shot in the direction of the scaffold surrounding the church where it put a safety net into flames, quickly put out …

But this typical fake news made its way around the world very fast …

So whenever you read stuff like this, be very careful and anyway:
If someone quotes “news” from breitbart or its Russian counterpart RT – immediately “unfriend” this person because it’s a clear indicator of something terribly wrong with her/him!

Even more OT:
Many old famous German cities have for several years forbidden to use firecrackers in the city centers because of the fire risk after in my home town a house almost burnt down because the apartment under the roof was empty because of the holiday and a firecracker smouldered away …

a.b.
Guest

wolfi7777, I read both breitbart and RT. Guess I want to be informed. It doesn’t make me a “terribly wrong” person 🙂 By the contrary, denying me the right to read and judge things by myself is somehow terribly wrong. I think both sides are assuming that the other site is brainwashed, which is not the case here. CNN, BBC, AP, RFI, DW etc. are also biased. Just that they keep supporting the so-called “progressives”, “liberals”. The EPP, the dems in the US.

Ferenc
Guest

OT, but related to above: Around New Years Eve this year in Vac, some 30km north of Budapest, an apartment burnt out, probably caused by fireworks hitting material stored on it’s balcony.

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