László Lengyel, the “kingmaker”

On Saturday afternoon Ferenc Gyurcsány delivered his thirteenth speech on the state of the country, which was broadcast on both ATV and HírTV. Hungarian speakers can watch the 40-minute speech on ATV’s website. It was a forceful attack on Viktor Orbán and his government in which he compared Orbán to István Csurka, the extreme right leader of MIÉP, an anti-Semitic party which, after a spectacular rise in the second half of the 1990s, disappeared for good, to be replaced by Gábor Vona’s Jobbik. He also talked about the poverty of the “working poor” and blamed the present government for the growing poverty of many Hungarians, adding that, in his opinion, a person for whom the wounds of Trianon are more painful than the sufferings of Hungarians who are hungry and cold is not a patriot.

If Gyurcsány had confined himself to these themes, not too many people would have been overly excited about the former prime minister’s speech. But he continued with a juicy revelation. He accused László Botka, MSZP’s candidate for the premiership, of conducting, with the assistance of a non-politician “kingmaker,” negotiations to exclude him and his party from a future electoral alliance of left-of-center parties. Such behavior can put an end to DK’s cooperation with the other socialist-liberal parties, he warned. Well, that sort of news is definitely something both the media and the public love. Indeed, soon enough a host of articles appeared about the speech and its content.

The name of the “kingmaker” didn’t remain secret for long. The spokesman of the Demokratikus Koalíció, Zsolt Gréczy, made it public on Facebook. The “kingmaker” was László Lengyel, a political scientist and economist who is a regular participant in political discussions, where he shows great mastery of both domestic and foreign affairs.

Soon enough it was determined that the meeting to which Gyurcsány alluded did indeed take place. What was more difficult to find out was what actually transpired at the meeting from which the leaders of MSZP, Párbeszéd, Együtt, and even LMP and László Botka wanted Gyurcsány and his party to be excluded. Although everybody involved has since given interviews, they have carefully avoided providing straight answers to any and all questions touching on the content of the discussions. After listening to all these interviews, I had the distinct feeling that Gyurcsány’s information was correct. The meeting was about getting rid of Gyurcsány while holding on to DK voters.

László Lengyel / Source: Népszabadság / Photo: János M. Schmidt

How did Gyurcsány and the leadership of the Demokratikus Koalíció find out about the meeting in the first place? Lengyel seems to have been foolish enough to approach Péter Niedermüller, DK member of the European Parliament, and invite him for a cup of coffee. There he told Niedermüller about what was afoot and extended an invitation to him to attend the meeting. Niedermüller refused and informed DK’s executive board of Lengyel’s scheme.

Eventually Niedermüller told his side of the story. He interpreted the conversation over coffee as “an attempt to exclude DK and its chairman from cooperation among left-of-center parties without losing DK’s voters.” Such “half-truths, secrecy, and mendacity are incompatible with my conscience,” Niedermüller announced. The main occupation of far too many opposition leaders is “branding those fellow politicians with whom they don’t agree.” By such behavior they only strengthen the prime minister and his regime.

László Lengyel admits that he did have a conversation with Niedermüller but denies everything the DK politician said about their meeting. He practically called Niedermüller a liar who was “dragged into this idiocy,” I guess by Gyurcsány. He expressed his regret that Niedermüller “got himself involved with such bad company.”

During the many interviews Lengyel gave in the last couple of days it became clear that he was the one who convinced László Botka to announce his interest in becoming a candidate to head the united democratic opposition. It is a well-known fact that Lengyel passionately hates Ferenc Gyurcsány. In one of his interviews he freely admitted that he swore in 2006 that he would never sit down at the same table with Ferenc Gyurcsány. And he is not exaggerating. I had personal experience with Lengyel’s uncompromising hatred of the former prime minister. Lengyel used to be a frequent contributor to Galamus, an excellent internet site–unfortunately by now defunct due to a lack of funds–that carried mostly opinion pieces. Both Péter Niedermüller and I were among the founding members. One day Zsófia Mihancsik, our editor, invited Gyurcsány to write an article for Galamus. As soon as the article appeared, Lengyel cut all ties with Galamus. He no longer cared about either the quality or the mission of the site.

The three authors on the left who wrote opinion pieces on the incident are split on the issue. Péter S. Földi and György Adorján condemn those democratic politicians who try to make deals behind the backs of others. It is only TGM, who specializes in contrary opinions on practically everything, who thinks that Lengyel is a private individual and as such has the right to meet with anyone he wants. Moreover, he looks upon Gyurcsány’s indignation as “an attack against intellectuals,” an act that foreshadows hard times to come. I’m not quite sure what TGM has in mind.

All these attempts, especially by the two tiny parties Együtt and Párbeszéd, to get rid of Gyurcsány are not just a waste of time but incredibly harmful. DK voters are devoted to the head of their party. They are not going to abandon him and flock to a left-of-center group that excludes their leader. And no election can be won without Gyurcsány and DK. All these meetings are really “much ado about nothing,” with the terrible side effect of shaking the little confidence left-wing voters still have in the opposition. The poll the smaller parties cite to bolster their claim about Gyurcsány’s standing with the voters is fallacious, as I pointed out earlier in one of my posts. Most Hungarians who would vote for a left political conglomerate don’t care one way or the other about the makeup of the joint party list. As for the undecided voters, only half of them feel strongly about the person of Gyurcsány.

Although there is nothing wrong with outsiders giving advice to politicians, it should be positive, constructive counsel, not counsel that would further split the already fractured Hungarian opposition.

February 7, 2017
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András B. Göllner
Guest

I have read just about everything László Lengyel has written during the past 25 years, watched him in hundreds of TV appearances and listened to his views in even more radio interviews. What impressed me the most, was his understanding of the poet, Kosztolányi, what impressed me the least was his understanding of democratic politics, and the catastrophic role, political culture plays in Hungary’s persistent march backwards into the future. There is a “dominant intellectual class” in Hungary, that is convinced, that an understanding of Kosztolyányi, or meteorology, or its ability to eat with a knife and fork, entitles it to determine, who should govern, who should get what, when and how in Hungary. This “intellectual class” is manifestly clueless about how to organize, and run a political Party that has a country-wide base, a presence in every district, and is responsive to the needs of ordinary Hungarians. Another Hungarian rhapsody – another “alternative reality”.

petofi
Guest

I have watched and listened to Lenygel for a number of years, as I have with Gyurcsany. My choice between the two men would fall on Lenygel. I’ve always found Gyurcsany to be a pontificating blow hard monstrously involved with self promotion and the sound of his own pronouncements. And of course, the worst about Gyurcsany, for me, was his failure to back Bajnai wholeheartedly during the 2010 elections. In fact,
he seemed to be undercutting him where he could.

But really, the whole Hungarian political scene has no more significance, or importance, than a small frog’s fart in a windstorm…

webber
Guest

I agree.

Member

That’s unfair, Petofi. I’d say the farting frog is at least medium-sized.

wrfree
Guest

You know if we think about it the whole place stinks to high heaven. Magyarorszag would do itself well to take some stock in Febreze. I’m surprised more have not taken to the highway out of the country. But we know how very easy it is for all of us to get comfortable with smells.

Re: Super Bowl
Thank God VO doesn’t have that to play around with in his ‘sports’ futbol strategy. At 5 mil a pop for an ad Magyars would be in penury to the fellow for years. His ‘take’ would overwhelm Midas.

Re: the ‘kingmaker’

If anybody watched ‘House of Cards’ which showed the machinations of an underling destroying his rivals then one can see in high relief the venomous political environment which exists in the country. Those with black hearts don’t use stilettos oh no. They just show them as they slink in the background.

petofi
Guest

The Super Bowl and Alernative Reality in the USA.

The Americans are fully blown up in the myth-making of Brady/Belichik ‘greatness’ pursuant to their magical win.
Balderdash. Just consider for a moment: the Offensive Coordinator for the Falcons–the fellow who played his team out of field-goal range with 2.5 minutes remaining…has, all of a sudden and without further ado has been presented, one day after the debacle, with the head coaching job of the San Francisco 49ers for a period of 6 years…

Now, what do you suppose that means…?

FreeWheeling
Guest
OT. (sorry for sullying this blog with sport blather) I can see how you the correlation in your belief of a quid-pro-quo but: 1. Coordinators of Super Bowl teams are often high in demand for vacant head coaching positions. Just about every year one jumps soon after the big game to a head coaching job. For example, the current Atlanta head coach was defensive coordinator for the Seattle team that appeared in Super Bowl 49. He also signed to be Atlanta’s head coach the day after his team lost the big game to New England. (a game that New England also should have lost but for poor offensive management at the end of a game by Seattle as they were about to score and win) 2. The offensive coordinator for the Falcons is some that has shown results in just about every job he has been in. It has been noted over the past few years that’s there has been a correlation between the improved performance of that team’s quarterback and his presence on the staff as an QB coach or OC. The development of a QB is incredibly important to the performance of a team. (there have been times… Read more »
Guest

To me this sports discussion sounds really funny – I’m no longer interested in sports of any kind, doping is just the main activities of these people and making as much money as possible from their fans …
And the stories about hooligans all over Europe (do you have them too in the USA?) add to this distaste.

webber
Guest

Hooligans: Not so many in the US, because the police are standing ready to move on anyone who attacks anyone else in a stadium or outside one. Injuries inflicted by the police and conviction for assault are assured for anyone who attacks others just for the joy of it. So, there’s practically no violence in American stadiums (compared with European ones).

There are laws against assault in Europe too. The fact that European police don’t crush soccer hooligans the moment they violate those laws seems very, very strange to most Americans.

petofi
Guest

Your extensive knowledge of the NFL certainly trumps mine…but to me, a payoff is obvious. Why would one want to court criticism by hiring the man who singlehandedly lost the super bowl by not running the ball three times into the middle of the line and then kicking a field goal…? Obvious plays to all except maybe coach Carroll of the Seahawks in 2015. But back then, it was just stupidity; this year the 2nd half of the game was a fix to create interest and keep the fan watching. Those suspicious 30 minutes of football will probably save the tv station 200 million
dollars in advertising fees next year…

Istvan
Guest

Petofi the decision to not just move the ball conservatively forward was a reflection of the coach’s odd lack of confidence in his field goal kicker. It’s odd because Falcons kicker Matt Bryant made 51 of 63 field goals from 40-49 yards in his Falcons career. But petofi your analysis is supported by numerous sports reporters here in the USA, this one for example http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/the-falcons-super-bowl-collapse-is-one-of-the-biggest-choke-jobs-in-sports-history/

Living in Chicago and having been a Chicago Bears fan I dislike both the Pats and the Falcons. Our team however is truly pathetic so we boo constantly at the decisions of our coach.

FreeWheeling
Guest
An offensive coordinator doesn’t single-handedly lose the game by his bad decisions. At such a crucial point in the game the head coach would almost certainly be influencing strategy or even perhaps overruling his OC’s play calls. Furthermore good quarterbacks can overrule the play that is called based the alignment of the defense or sometimes just his own judgement. Besides the QB, influential players can also bring about play changes in the huddle. Believe me that the OC was going to get a big job with San Francisco (or possibly one of the Los Angeles teams) even if they had lost their NFC championship game. The OC is also at the age (37) where coaches are given the opportunity to become a head coach. Even if they would have lost, what the Patriots have done over the past 17 years is admirable as there’s plenty of obstacles to overcome in American football that hamper team chemistry. (chiefly the salary cap that makes it difficult to keep talented players and injuries can pile up quickly) Their head coach is a competitor and is deeply knowledgeable about the game. Plus their owner, by all accounts, also does well to manage the their… Read more »
wrfree
Guest

Too bad Mr. Brady couldn’t reprise his sports success in Magyar politics. The guy wins. Cool as a cucumber and he gets the job done. No speeches and just an intense attitude to his craft. End of story.

bimbi
Guest

@petofi 12:10

Truth is, we don’t much care. And now God help us, the US of A is going to “Stupor Bowl” Formula 1 racing.

webber
Guest

“As for the undecided voters, only half of them feel strongly about the person of Gyurcsány.”
ONLY????
Undecided voters are the largest group – far larger than the group of Fidesz supporters.
If HALF of them have problems with Gyurcsany, that is a very, very large problem indeed.

Guest

The liberal democratic opposition in Hungary is in such a pathetic state of disorganization and demoralization that it has Buckley’s chance of making any impression at all in the upcoming general elections in 2018.

Whilst they lack any kind of a viable network of grassroots support across Hungary, their main interest seems focused on infighting and on rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic.

A classic case of two many chiefs, not enough indians, and indeed of too many cooks spoil the broth.

The unbelievable political ineptitude and unreality of the Budapest left remind me nothing so much as that of the intellectuals/scientists of Laputa, the island in the sky in Gulliver’s Travels by Jonathan Swift.

Guest

Very good observation!
It would take a kind of miracle to make the Hungarian oppostion united – I see no chance for the next ten years, maybe if the EU really breaks up and the money flow to Hungary stops.

There are hard times ahead for Hungarians – all the young ones that we know are thinking about leaving …

wrfree
Guest

And speaking of Jonathan, the great satirist, Magyars would perhaps chuckle to his wonderful ‘Directions to Servants’ which looks at the relationship between masters and their servants. Swift really in a way could be describing present day government ‘servants’ and how they manage their ‘servitude’ to the people. Always looking for that ‘edge’ when conducting their ‘duties’ as public servants. But really the people are getting poor poor service from their supposed ‘servants’. It’s a world turned upside down.

So ‘Rules that concern all servants in general’ ….

‘When you have done a fault be always pert and insolent, and behave yourself as if you were the injured person; this will immediately put your lafy ir master off their mettle’.

‘Never come till you have been called three or four times; for none but dogs will cone at the first whistle; and when the master calls , Who’s there? No servant is bound to come; for Who’s there is nobody’s name’.

bimbi
Guest

With intellectuals like Laszlo Lengyel one might ask, “Who needs court jesters?” Yup, sounds as if your New Opposition has a great future, Laci.

Since it really is “Time to Maker Hungary Great Again” readers might like to check out the series of videos produced in various Yurpean countries, each vying for Second Place behind Trump’s “‘Meriga First”:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/06/world/europe/europe-trump-parody-videos.html?mwrsm=Email

Perhaps Laci L. could direct his efforts to making Hungary’s video bid for Second Place, assuming of course that Mr. Rogan’s Ministry of Propaganda does not come up with its own version.

daddy
Guest

IF THOSE ON THE LEFT OF CENTER WOULD MAKE AN HONEST REVIEW AND EVALUATION OF MR. GYURCSÁNY AS PRIME MINISTER, THEIR CONCLUSION WOULD NOT BE OTHER THAN LENGYEL,S; I.E. GOD SAVE HUNGARY FROM A REPEAT PERFORMANCE. HE COULD BE AN EXCELLENT PREACHER, BUT AS A LEADER AND ADMINISTRATOR OF STATE AFFAIRS, HE IS VERY WEAK.

bimbi
Guest

@daddy 5:42 a.m.

Hell if “STRENGTH” is your criterion of greatness, let us all vote for Vladimir Putin, or even one of his predecessors – how about Joe Stalin?

You just don’t get it, do you?

bimbi
Guest

My apologies for being ‘off-topic’ but this note is addressed to Istvan “Concealed Carry” of Chicago through the following article from today’s Guardian – lefty liberal sheet:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/08/trump-muslim-terrorists-gun-violence-america-deaths

In 2013 as many Americans were killed by gunfire in five hours as were killed by terrorism in the whole of the year.

OK, it ain’t ‘concealed carry’ – it is the particularly American combo of gun ownership and “attitood”

webber
Guest

It’s just gun ownership. Europeans have plenty of that attitude, too. Just look at what happens in and around soccer stadiums.

bimbi
Guest

@webber 7:17 a.m.

Obviously, you just read the last two lines of my comment. If shootings in the States occurred only around football stadia the number of deaths would be far smaller. The Canadians have lots of guns (according to Michael Moore) but far fewer gun deaths. They just got less ‘attitood’, eh?

webber
Guest

Not quite the case. Canadians can’t easily buy the sorts of weapons people generally use to murder one another, namely handguns. They’re “restricted” in Canada.

There are other differences too – good article here:
http://www.nationalobserver.com/2015/12/04/news/how-american-gun-deaths-and-gun-laws-compare-canadas

Istvan
Guest
Yes we watch the killing totals every morning here on TV in Chicago like they are sports scores. Even though my particular neighborhood is a higher income enclave within the City we have had killings within one quarter of a mile of my $650,000 home and we have heard gunfire occasionally late at night. Only rarely are any of the killings attributable to legal concealed carry permit holders, then almost always the killings for legally justified. As I have said we are a cowboy nation and our concept of the right to self defense is culturally embedded. Both my wife and I are legal concealed carry holders, as is my one daughter who is a US Army major. My Vietnamese neighbor is permitted as is French family eight doors down. I sure others are also armed but do not discuss it. The data is correct in the Guardian, but we have had even higher murder rates here in Chicago than we had last year. Most of the Chicagoans that kill each other here are poor and overwhelmingly African American or Hispanic. In most cases these killings involve guns illegally owned, are linked to drug trade conflicts, or are murders of… Read more »
petofi
Guest

Only $650, 000 for your home, Istvan?
You have to start thinking of moving out of the slums…

Guest

Why do so many say that Gyurcsany should disappear from the political scene? Answer: Because they do not understand democracy. It is the voters privilege to decide who should disappear from the political scene.

webber
Guest

I believe the voters decided. I don’t think Gyurcsanyistas want to accept their decision. So, who doesn’t understand democracy?

bimbi
Guest

@webber 7:19 a.m.

How nice that you are so trusting! Fact is Gyurcsany was and is the butt of one of the most successful character assasinations in Hungarian political history carried out by Orban (when he was still the “volt miniszter elnok” and his party machine – I am sure that today Szalasi would be rated more popular than Gyurcsany (but maybe that would be an unfair comparison).

If you read and listen and then think you might appreciate that Mr. Gyurcsany is one of the very few in Hungary who has any appreciation of what democracy is about – cooperation, trust and progress – but all three lie immersed in the mud of “Magyarorszag jobban teljesit”.

webber
Guest

Look – there is a similar situation with Clinton, whom I supported over Trump. Was I upset Clinton lost? Of course I was.

Does that mean I think Clinton should run again? I damned well do not. If the Democratic Party picks her again, they are insane.

Was she the victim of character assassination? Perhaps. Doesn’t mean diddly.

As to Gyurcsany’s character assassination – well, that’s politics, isn’t it? You dish it out, and you get it in the neck. It’s the nature of the game

People were saying nasty things about Orban all those years too. Many true, some not. (OT I still remember the first time I was told by a so-called leftist that Orban was a Gypsy, wink-wink, nudge-nudge… Openly racist stuff.).

Would I prefer Gyucsany over Orban? Of course I would.

Do I think Gyurcsany has a good chance of winning against Orban? I do not.

Give me someone who has a chance.

Tell me – HOW can someone who is rejected by half of the “undecided” voters possibly win an election?

Don’t tell me again he was the victim of a character assassination. It doesn’t matter one bit.

bimbi
Guest

@webber 8:30 a.m.

I was talking about Hungary, not the recent presidential election in the USA. You wrote:

“I believe the voters decided. I don’t think Gyurcsanyistas want to accept their decision. So, who doesn’t understand democracy?”

and presumably you were talking about the (2010) Hungarian election. Good. You may remember the overwhelming anti-Gyurcsany propaganda drive launched by Orban/Fidesz in the (many) months prior to that election – lies and fake stories is US! Maybe for you, this too is “democracy”. Since then we have had the conversion of Hungary into Orbanistan where the media, the judiciary, the money sources, the advertising, the laws governing elections are all rigged in Fidesz favour. I guess this too might be called “democracy”. Tell ya, might work in Churmany but not where I come from.

webber
Guest

Oh? Sure that sort of thing doesn’t happen in other countries?
There were quite a few lies told about Clinton during the campaign too, I recall. Quite a lot of BS out there on the internet. Some repeated here.
Clearly you like Gyurcsany. Good for you.
Clearly you dislike and get angry with people who don’t think he can win. Seems a silly way to try to convince them, but hey…

webber
Guest

I was trying to get you to understand that a politician’s chances to win an election can be killed, through the example of Clinton, and that when that happens – for whatever reason – it’s time to find another candidate.

I understand, however, that for Gyurcsanyistas only Gyurcsany will do. There is no other possibility among 10 million Hungarians for you.

webber
Guest

Of course you’re not saying the media was controlled by Fidesz before 2010, are you? I recall a LOT of media that was for Gyurcsany/MSZP/Bajnai before Fidesz came to power. I miss it.
But the left had a voice then, and still lost.

Melanie Zuben
Guest

Webber,
In your opinion, what would Gurcsany do differently to Orban? Would he support the Soros-style “Open Society”? Would he open the borders? Would he turn against Russia?

pappp
Guest
webber
Guest

Aha. You can have anyone on the left, as long as its Gyurcsany…. Half the undecided voters reject Gyurcsany, but they will have to vote for him, like it or not….
And that shows an understanding of democracy??

petofi
Guest

They have to start thinking of a stake in the heart. This sucker, like Hillary, just won’t stay down!

Guest

“I believe the voters decided.”

When did the voters decide that Gyurcsany cannot have a comeback?

webber
Guest

He’s free to try as often as he wants, as are Hollande, Le Pen, or Sarkozy (unless S. goes to prison, that is).

I just do not think that Hollande or Gyurcsany have a chance. Hollande seems to understand that now.

wrfree
Guest

The fellow below says Magyars are ‘happier and satisfied’. Debatable since the opinion assumes inertia in the populace for change means they are satisfied. But if Gyurcsany ( or any holding his ‘thoughts’) doesn’t have a chance we could be looking at years and years of that new fangled VO ‘illiberalism’ solidifying. Looks to me we’re dealing then down the line with ‘freedom is slavery’.

Guest

“He’s free to try as often as he wants..”

Bravo! You have got it right.

webber
Guest

Yeah, but too many candidates split the vote on the left, and the political system in Hungary these days punishes this, much as the British and American systems do, and then some (it’s a sort of super first-past-the-post system in Hungary – on steriods). You’ve got to have a united ticket on the left, otherwise Fidesz wins.

Guest

” too many candidates split the vote on the left, and the political system in Hungary these days punishes this”

Blame Orban for creating an undemocratic election system where opposition candidates tell other opposition candidates to f… off.

webber
Guest

Yes, true, but nonetheless you’ve got to have a united ticket. It is 2017 now. The elections are in the Spring of 2018. The campaign should have started already, but there is no sign of any unity on the left whatsoever.
(I agree with Lengyel – summarized by Eva above – on part of the problem)

pappp
Guest
People say they crave hitelesség (credibility). I believe them. I think it’s certainly true in the sense that people honestly would like to believe their leaders, want to like them, want to respect them. Gyurcsany simply lacks credibility and his remaining popularity is much much smaller than that of Orban. Gyurcsany is an issue that cannot be solved. One could debate about this forever. There’s no solution to it. Both sides are right: he has the right to try, again and again. In normal countries such politicians realize that their career is long over. In Nicaragua or Hungary, this isn’t the case. My hunch is that Hungarians will never vote in enough numbers for a leftist coalition that would include Gyurcsany (even in the background) and a bunch of flip-flopping moribund MSZPniks. Let’s recap: given only election maths, the united left wing must prevail over the dominant party of the right-wing by about 7-8 percentage points in order just to have a majority in the Parliament (which isn’t enough to govern under the current circumstances). Given what I see all over Hungary, that is that people are afraid of “politics” beyond imagination it’s inconceivable to me that people would come… Read more »
webber
Guest

I agree.

calabresi
Guest

Hungarians are more and more optimistic. Happier and satisfied.

Orban hasn’t even started spending on purchasing votes.

People just like what they have here in Hungary.

The opposition must deal with this.

Happy and optimistic people won’t want a political change and a return to the times when they were sad and unhappy under Gyurcsany. They want more of the same good things like Orban and Fidesz.

https://444.hu/2017/02/08/6-es-fel-eve-nem-volt-ennyi-elegedett-ember-magyarorszagon

Member

Your argument seems to be undermined by the fact that a relative majority of poll respondents – 48% – remain unsatisfied with what they have here in Hungary.
Orban’s formula for popularity is “less bread, more circus.” That strategy can work for a while, maybe even years. In Hungary, it is being helped along by an incompetent opposition.
Once the EU structural funds dry up, the circus is bound to close.
http://hvg.hu/itthon/20170208_Median_Mar_merheto_es_2_szazalekon_all_a_Momentum_Mozgalom

bimbi
Guest

@calabresi 6:21 a.m.

Ciao calabresi! Ancora uno vasco di merda, eh?

Guest

Yes,because more and more of the “unhappy ones” are leaving the country!

Of course the son of a Fidesz politician is very happy with his licence to print his own money – sorry I mean the licence for his own tobacco shop …

Member

Slightly OT, but not really:
Maria Sandor, the “Nurse in Black,” tells 168 Ora why she is withdrawing from public life: http://168ora.hu/magara-hagytak-sandor-mariat/
“I am not suited for leadership. I believe everyone, then I realize that they just want to use me for their own purposes. I thought people were good. I realized they were not. Most of them are selfish because of the misery in which they live: Because of the permanent hardship and permanent injustice. They are disappointed in me, I am disappointed in them.”
I feel sorry for her, but I think she is right: She is not suited for leadership. She seems to be prone to depression, as evidenced by her attempted suicide. (She discusses this in the 168 Ora article.)
The opposition ought to put a priority on buttressing people such as Sandor — people who are willing to sacrifice their own well-being for the sake of combatting the System of National Cooperation. Instead, they sit around shrugging; even worse, they openly attack such people over petty disagreements.
I seldom agree with the COF. But when they lambaste opposition leaders as clowns, I’m afraid they are right.

webber
Guest

Whoever thought a nurse was “leadership material” needs to see a doctor.

Member

Yeah, silly me, she’s just a chick in candy stripes.
See you on your next nagyvizit, Dr. Webber.
PS – Did your nurse sew bigger pockets into your scrubs so we can stuff more halapenz inside?

webber
Guest

🙂
Good nurses are great. I’ve never met a single one who dreamed of running a political movement.
But it’s a big world.

webber
Guest

P.S. Yes, I agree Sandor should have had more backing and help. I seem to recall she didn’t want the embrace of some on the left. Is my memory wrong on that?

Member

I don’t recall anything about that. Last I remember was last summer, when the MSZP called for solidarity with her protest. She may have rejected some on the left, but it wasn’t like Tanitanek’s rejection.

webber
Guest

I might be wrong, but I’m pretty sure some people on the left tried to buddy up to her and failed. Nothing like Tanitanek – but she was pretty clear that she was not and did not want to be associated with any political party, as I recall.

I agree that what she did is heroic. If only more people would. It’s just that I am not at all surprised she says she doesn’t think she is leadership material.
She must be one hell of a nurse, that is for sure – she clearly cares so much.

Guest

Whoever thinks that a nurse can’t be “leadership material” has not yet embraced female equality.

webber
Guest

Whoever says that has never heard of male nurses.

Guest

Nonsense.

petofi
Guest

You basically misunderstand ‘Hungarian nature’…Hungarians don’t want to do away with graft and corruption–they just want to be included in it.

Guest

A bit OT:

Have you read about the “Christian” KDNP mayor of Körmend who had to resign after it was found that he had sex with a girl less than 16 years old?

Does anyone know the details of this case?
My wife says she’s so disgusted that she doesn’t want to read more about that criminal …

Member

It was the deputy mayor. If you read Hungarian, the details are in the article linked below. If you don’t, the story is that she was a former student of his. Their relationship began while she was still a child. The parents found out when they accidentally stumbled upon a private message between the star-crossed lovers.

(I know a guy who found out about his wife’s infidelity when he accidentally pressed CTRL-V and discovered an e-mail that his beloved had been trying to copy-paste.)

Keep in mind: Sinning does not preclude anyone from being a Christian. It may make you a vile creep and a hypocrite, but if sinners did not exist, neither would Christianity.

http://hvg.hu/itthon/20170207_Feljelentettek_a_KDNPs_polgarmestert_mert_viszonya_volt_egy_16_eves_lannyal

Guest

Thanks, but I don’t really want to learen the sordid details – anyway we’ve seen too many pedophile cases all over the world. The only good news there is that maybe in the futures cases will be found earlier or even prevented somehow.

petofi
Guest

Pedophile nonsense.
Cultural differences: in Africa, some cultures have the aunts and uncles initiate the young in sex. Much less psychological trauma than in western cultural practices…

Melanie Zuben
Guest

Petofi,
“Pedophile nonsense.
Cultural differences: in Africa, some cultures have the aunts and uncles initiate the young in sex. Much less psychological trauma than in western cultural practices”

Is that so? What you are actually saying that it’s perfectly normal for uncle Pisti to “break in” little 10-year-old Juliska. Are you provoking again? And again and again? And again and again, the innocents will pay for this, like they always do.

petofi
Guest

Obviously, you never played ‘doctor’ when you were 5…

Melanie Zuben
Guest

petofi
“Obviously, you never played ‘doctor’ when you were 5…”

I guess not . . . I had a midwife for a mother. She warned me about old perverts.

petofi
Guest

As usual, from the make-believe world. Do you think that some Juliskas are not capable to tease and incite some uncle Pistis?
(C’mon, Melanie, heat up the hot but.)

webber
Guest

Wouldn’t let you near my daughter after that comment.

aida
Guest

This discussion is almost not worth joining. The fact that your underage victim is immature does not remove the necessary protection the law gives her from the consequences of her immaturity. If she was not immature there would be no need for the protection. People are vulnerable for all sorts of reasons. One of these is youth. It is difficult to protect people from the consequences of their vulnerability in most cases. Sex with children is one of the easier and deserving targets.

petofi
Guest

What nonsense about sex and age! Anybody know that girls of 10 were married in the middle ages?

Member

Yes, and they also had public floggings. Perhaps those should be acceptable as well?
I can think of a few people who deserve it… but in principle I would have to come down on the “opposed” side.

Guest

And when the Jews got too rich another pogrom was held to get back the money, witches were burnt on the stake etc etc …

For once I have to agree with latefor:
Petofi should be ashamed of himself!

Latefor
Guest

Petofi,
Is that so? Girls of 10 were married? And man of your age weren’t even alive in the middle ages! Your coment is appalling and your reasoning reminds me of Daniel Cohn-Bandit. 😭😭😭

petofi
Guest

Tsk, tsk. Shameful “political correctness”. Haven’t you seen were pc & Hillary have gotten the US?

petofi
Guest

Hint: Trump–an angry 3 year-old using the US as his personal rattle.

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