Viktor Orbán’s plans foiled: The U.S. government won’t negotiate

Today Viktor Orbán named Kristóf Altusz, deputy undersecretary of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, to be the prime minister’s representative at the forthcoming “diplomatic negotiations” concerning the status of the “international universities” in Hungary. Considering that, among the international universities, only CEU’s status is being attacked, that would leave Altusz with a single task: to conduct “diplomatic negotiations” with the government of the United States. There is, however, a serious hitch here. Almost simultaneously with the announcement of Altusz’s new job, Hoyt Brian Yee, deputy assistant secretary in the U.S. State Department, announced in Budapest that any negotiations that might take place in the future will have to be between the Hungarian government and the administration of Central European University. The U.S. government is not going to negotiate with the Hungarian government over the fate of CEU.

Assistant Secretary Yee was generous with his time and gave interviews to Index, Magyar Nemzet, and Magyar Idők. The first two are already available online, but I assume Magyar Idők is still contemplating how to package Yee’s messages for its faithful readers. Yee’s first message was that the Trump administration “fully supports” the university, which the Orbán government might not have expected. The second was equally important. He told Index that “although [he] can’t speak on behalf of the Hungarian government, [he] thinks, on the basis of his conversations, that they understand what is at stake.”

Yee’s claim that the university is “the success story of the partnership between Hungary and the United States” was a somewhat more subtle reference to the importance of the issue. Equally pointed was his claim that Budapest was chosen as the venue for CEU because, at the time of the founding of the university (1992), there was great hope that “this city might be the leader of the whole region’s development and that Hungary as a democratic, prosperous, successful country will be the model for others.” For many years that was actually the case, and now “the challenge is to keep this dynamic alive or, in other words, the city, the country should stand up for democracy, the rule of law, fundamental freedoms, including freedom of education.” The message here: the demonstrations are performing a vital task in defense of the future of Hungary.

While government officials behind closed doors are contemplating how to get out of a sticky situation, Fidesz’s radical right has been hard at work. István Lovas, whose favorite pastime is reading Sputnik News from cover to cover, charged that George Soros is trying to make sure that Viktor Orbán’s name will be on the list of dictators. He quoted Sputnik News: “the representatives of the [Hungarian] government believe that his fund receives money for ‘serving the interests of global capitalists’ which contradicts with [sic] Hungary’s national interests.” Lovas also quoted the Daily Caller, which claims that “leaked documents” from Soros’s Open Society Foundations reveal how Soros works “to defeat populist candidates and movements in Europe.” Naturally, Soros uses “a network of nonprofits and partner organizations across Europe to try and affect the outcomes in foreign countries.” And, in a longer piece written for Magyar Hírlap, Lovas tore into Donald Trump, who, he said, committed a war crime by ordering an airstrike after the use of chemical weapons by Syrian forces. That piece of writing inspired a short note by Zsolt Bayer, the viciously anti-Semitic friend of Viktor Orbán who only recently received a high state decoration. He republished Lovas’s article, to which he added:

We are republishing here an important article by my friend István because, after reading it, it becomes clear why the U.S. State Department is sending thunderous warnings to the Hungarian government on account of CEU.

Why? Because in the U.S. State Department the old guard still serves, and there (also) Soros is the boss.

Let’s hope this will change very soon.

We can also point out that very soon we will also be on the streets to protect what is important and sacred for us. And we will be very angry. So, for a while you can rant and rave, you can try to tear the parliament apart, the ministries, the Fidesz headquarters, the president’s office, you can attack the policemen, assault journalists—for a while.

But then no longer.

Then you will experience what it feels like to be persecuted and threatened.

I’m telling you we are very angry. Is it clear?

Keep in mind that up to this point the demonstrations have been peaceful, and let’s hope they will remain so. But no one can guarantee that the protesters will remain patient and disciplined, especially in light of the government propaganda against their efforts, especially the cruder type that was the brainchild of Árpád Habony, Viktor Orbán’s mysterious adviser. They come out with “fake news” that even Donald Trump’s favorite rags would be proud of. For example, they said that George Soros personally paid for airline tickets for people all over the world to attend the rally in Budapest. And the propaganda tabloid 888.hu came up with headlines like “Soros’s men employ anarchists.” People, especially those who were among the 80,000 who demonstrated on Sunday, do get annoyed when they think the Hungarian government and its media take them for fools.

In closing, I would like to call attention to an article written by Péter Pető, formerly deputy editor-in-chief of Népszabadság and now managing editor of 24.hu. The piece was written after a few hundred demonstrators spontaneously gathered in front of Sándor Palace, the office of the president, after János Áder signed the bill into law. They threw white tulips that had been growing in front of the building at the police. The title was “Rebels with white tulips send a message to Orbán: Anything can happen.” Indeed. Anything can happen.

April 11, 2017
Sort by:   newest | oldest | most voted
Member

Somebody with a loud voice should finally say: GENERAL STRIKE .

A day, the next day, and another day – until Orban resigns.

Member

I am asking this for years, I agree, thank you!!!
(I would add to disconnect the cash registers from the NAV and to withhold the tax payments by companies and retailers too)

Member

Just a side comment, that the situation after the CEU law is not how the little viktor imagined. So the boys postponed the proposed legislation against the NGO’s.
I WISH THEY HADN’T, because then I am sure their behind would be in a sling shortly after KÁder Jancsi, “the lardy shaman horse” put his signature on that.

petofi
Guest

Imagine, they sent an immigrant to NOT negotiate with Orban’s boys!

How perfect…

exTor
Guest

https://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/biog/bureau/231274.htm

Irony, here in the form of sarcasm in the post by petofi, can be difficult to ascertain in text, especially if an explanatory is minimal or nonexistent.

Hoyt Brian Yee has been the US pointman in the area [read: Afghanistan, the Balkans, etcetera] for many years. It was a nobrainer for him to be in Budapest re the CEU issue. Check Yee’s CV in the link.

Fidesz politicos are sophisticated enough not to give Yee’s appearance (and perhaps his name) a second thought, though some segments of the Magyar public (considering its mindset) might wonder what’s up.

As for that ‘szarzsák’ racist Zsolt Bayer, once a shitbag, always a shitbag.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Guest

I still believe that the appearance of non-white person with a diplomatic career was a conscious message. I also believe that the “sophisticated Fidesz politicos” got the message.

webber
Guest

They didn’t. They couldn’t care less about the messenger, and he wasn’t selected because of CEU (as he made clear), his trip was planned ages ago. They are only looking at the message with their tiny legalistic minds, and finding that there is no real threat in it.

Roderick Beck
Guest

Of course, there is a real threat. If CEU shuts down, Hungary is dirt to America.

pappp
Guest

Agree with webber. They didn’t get any message.

For the naive readers like the journalists of 444.hu: Palkovics, Orban are not retreating.

They instead are pushing forward. This is what they always do and they are doing it again.

They will continue upping the ante in Hungary and look a bit more reasonable in private when talking to foreigners but they won’t change course in reality. Eventually Orban is seeking a “compromise” which would basically keep the law intact.

Orban and his people are lawyers. They want to see the legal consequences even from Americans. Otherwise it’s just piece of lex imperfecta – e.g. a prohibition with no penalty attached. Which means it’s a joke.

Orban won’t shit into his pants, which is quite clear because even his pathetic “Atlanticist” “liberal” underling Zsolt Németh stated that “Yee was not representing his government”. Basically even Fidesz’ good cop says Yee can get lost.

webber
Guest

Now they are retreating. The protests seem to have scared them.

gyurgyalag
Guest

Evidence is needed webber. I don’t believe the empty bullshit like offering a weird loophole to get around otherwise clear prohibitions. Offered by the secretary of state himself. It’s mind-boggling. The law must be repealed in its entirety. It’s needless, it’s useless, there’s no rational basis for it to exist. What Orban is performing is the famous Hungarian peacock dance as others have written. We have seen this countless time and we know it’s bullshit.

Roderick Beck
Guest

Orbán has shit his pants. He didn’t expect the US government to stand up for CEU and now that negotiations have been ruled out, he must either carry out his threat or retreat.

Observer
Guest

Tor
No, no! I wont have that.
ZsB is not a shitbag, he’s a scumbag.

András B. Göllner
Guest
Bayer is the voice of Hungary’s intolerant, racist past, and his master is ND – the National Disgrace (a.k.a. Viktor Orbán.) The ND’s preferance for mass rallies á la Nazi Germany, is well known, as is his preference for subcontracting those rallies to his “Stormtroopers”, like Lovas, Bayer, Kerényi, Bencsik, and that other “Vitéz”, Széles Gábor – the folks who organized the so called “Peace-March” a few years back, to intimidate those who dared to speak up against the ND. The Hungarian ultra-right, the thieves that have been robbing the country blind, will not back down without a fight, because now, they have Putin’s secret service as a backstop. At least 1000 of Putin’s secret service men are stationed in Budapest, most with Hungarian passports, courtesy of the ND’s local and loyal cronies. The ND and his pro-Russian, pro-Iranian, anti-American zealots have much to lose, there are still billions to be stolen from the funds the EU is sending to Hungary, via the Prime Minister’s office. The autocracy will fall eventually, but when it does, Bayer and his neo-Nazi followers will try to drag an entire nation into the abyss, like their former heroes, Horthy and Szálasi. Let’s hope, Hungary’s… Read more »
aida
Guest

The mistake many on this blog make is, with respect, that they attribute an ideology or doctrine based approach to the Orban clique. They were brought up on the anti Horthy anti fascist “nepneveles” (people education) aka propaganda of the communist era. That approach painted a most unattractive picture which no one could possibly want to promote based on any belief in its utility.

The real reason is that the “illiberal regime” is without any legal or democratic safeguards to moderate or to regulate to oligarchs’ power and ability to collect wealth by cheating and by abusing their power. The ideology is just the trimming to make the regime have credibility or verisimilitude. The deceit of the voters to mask the real motives and their true aims.

The attack on the CEU is part of the plot to attack, damage and destroy all institutions that exist to control, expose and ultimately defeat their unlawful grab for power and wealth. It is as simple as that.

The promotion of the likes of Bayer is to keep on side the racist mob which will grow as conditions for the masses grow worse and worse

Member

So Lovas quotes Sputnik. Nice source.
“These efforts include the use of visible Kremlin propaganda outlets, such as RT and Sputnik, to publish false news stories and conspiracy theories.”

“To buttress the claim that Trump (unwittingly or not) aided Russian disinformation efforts, Watts cited several instances. Among them: Trump’s citation of an apparently false Sputnik story at an October 2016 campaign appearance”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/03/30/todays-russia-hearings-actually-revealed-something-new-and-important/?tid=hybrid_mostsharedarticles_1_na&utm_term=.5b53615cca21

Guest

I was also wondering:

Everybody knows that RT and Sputnik are Putin’s propaganda outlets – producing fake news for the believers.
When anyone quotes them as a source it’s obvious that it’s just about hate and misinformation (to put it mildly).

LwiiH
Guest

“Why? Because in the U.S. State Department the old guard still serves, and there (also) Soros is the boss.”

This is incredible! I mean, the man is a super hero to be control everything that happens all over the world. When does he have time to sleep!

Guest

The people whose ingrained habit it is to support the man in power should switch to Soros before it is too late.

Guest

Maybe they’re used to the idea that Orbán controls everything in Hungary.

Guest
wrfree
Guest

wolfie…
Here one would have to think that is the result of Mr. Spicer perhaps fooling around on the Net and social media and not paying attention so much when taking his history credits in school. In my opinion American curriculums aren’t too big on ‘history’ per se. Basically, it’s what happened only ‘yesterday’. And the ‘classics?’ Fuggedaboutit.

One of the reason perhaps we’re all in this mess is there’s not so much an interest here today in the social sciences with the result people stutter over themselves when trying to make points about histories that they think they know about. They don’t dot the ‘i’s’ and fail to croo the ‘t’s’.

Ferenc
Guest

The demonstrations as I have seen reported by Index/ATV/HirTV were very peaceful.
I became curious what M1 reported about them. First to know Sunday’s demonstration wasn’t their main items in the news I’ve seen (Apr.10-23hr and Apr.11-12hr, replays through Duna World internet), here’s Sunday evenings 23hr news order: terror attack Egypt and Stockholm (7:45) – palm Sunday celebrations (2:45) – CEU demonstration (3:30) – reactions Fidesz (1:00) END of 15min news.
Main points of their news report about the demonstration:
1.aggression to police (proof in report zero)
2.as much English as Hungarian was heard (half of the report was made with some catched English talk)
3.attacks on M1 staff (only words from one staff member about his microphone being thrown away)
A complete disgrace of objective/fair/democratic reporting, and now combine this with what Mr.Bayer was writing for his Magyar Idok. Well is this Hungarian Fidesz democracy trying to follow in the footsteps of North-Korea, or what??

Question: what’s best to be done with M1&related media? Just ignore – monitor and report – all Hungarians claim their time on these media (it’s their tax money which is used) – Hungarians claim back part of their tax used for these media?

Ferenc
Guest

For who wants to see the M1 news report with his own eyes: http://www.mediaklikk.hu/video/hirado-m1-2300-2017-04-09-i-adas/
PS: now see I got the dates wrong, in my comment it should have been:
su.Apr.09-23hr and mo.Apr.10-12hr,

webber
Guest

Zsolt Bayer, founding member of Fidesz and one of Orbán’s dearest friends to the protesters: “We will be angry as hell. You can cause turmoil, try to trash Parliament and the streets of Budapest… For now. Because we are coming for you. And then you will soon find out how it is to be really threatened and persecuted.” Nice guy. Shows a real understanding of civic rights – an understanding shared by Kádár in his day.
https://444.hu/2017/04/11/bayer-zsolt-uzent-a-tunteto-fiataloknak-majd-megtapasztaljatok-milyen-erzes-uldozottnek-es-fenyegetettnek-lenni

TAAVI
Guest

” THE U.S. GOVERNMENT WON’T NEGOTIATE” NEGOTIATE WHAT? WHAT SHOULD THE HUNGARIAN GOVERNMENT NEGOTIATE? AN INTERNAL ISSUE WITH THE US GOV.? LOL

Guest

Hello – and good bye, troll!

TAAVI
Guest

and I am a troll because? I should echo your opinion, right!? Yes, that you would like very much and that would eliberate me from the troll stigma. fuckoffwolfi 😀

Roderick Beck
Guest

It was the Hungarian government that tried to make it an international issue. It backfired.

TAAVI
Guest

You are wrong. Hungary did not asked US about their right to do whatever they want in Hungary, it was the US who started this talk…

Roderick Beck
Guest

Wrong. The Hungarian government passed legislation that requires negotiations between the two governments in order for CEU to continue accept new students. The US responded, “No.”.

webber
Guest
Member

Bayer? What can you expect from this particular ignorant pig but an incoherent grunt?

Incidentally indirectly highlights the fact that the Far Right of Fidesz/Jobbik (unlike the democrats) in Hungary seem 100% incapable of using any kind of humor or subtlety in their arguments or debates.

It is always threats, bluster, aggression, zero trace of humanity.

It must be a laugh a minute when these boys gather round for a palinka and kolbasz sess round their local kocsma.

wrfree
Guest

Oh just some apt lines as the igen zsiros hus gets washed down by the loaded barack palinka and goes ’round in that comfortable kocsma…..

‘But man, proud man
Dressed in a little brief authority
Most ignorant of what he’s most assured,
His glassy essence, like an angry ape,
Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
As makes the angels weep’……Measure for Measure .. The Bard

And as the palinka sinks in to the head being reszeg could be the best thing for ‘pals in philosophy’ to perhaps have an inkling of understanding with those lines…;-)…

Tyrker
Guest

Evidently, Mr. Orbán is way too deplorable, even for Mr. Trump’s tastes.

Member
Member
Guest

A very good comment on the way the EPP is non-reacting to O’s illiberal ideas.
However considering Mr Seehofer I fear that he is not only O’s useful idiot but on the same antidemocratic level as O – a real disgrace for the “Christian” parties in Germany.
I’ve probably written about this before:
Seehofer is against same sex marriage – because in his own words:
Every child needs a father and a mother!
he however had a long term relation with his Berlin secretary and fathered her child – and then went back to his wife …
And his child has never been in contact with its father afaik – that’s Christian family politics!

I concocted a bad joke about Seehofer:
He went to his local Catholic priest and asked him if his secretary couldn’t be burned at the stake as a witch – because of course she had bewitched him to have sex with her …
The priest answered:
I totally agree with you and in the good old times we would have tortured and burned her – but nowadays we can’t do that any more, sorry!

pingg
Guest

Some people don’t like this development but it seems that in the US everything is back to normal re Russia.

Both WaPo’s editorial team and David Ignatius (who is basically considered a CIA spokesman within the journalistic community) lavished praise on Trump re his recent Russian decisions.

I assume Orban and his media will very soon be very critical of Trump – because one thing’s for sure. Orban isn’t changing course. He’s loyal to Russia and will continue to remain so.

Ferenc
Guest

First Vice President Frans Timmermans on Hungary and CEU https://twitter.com/EU_Commission/status/852125732608385024
incl.personal experiences of entering and leaving Hungary in the early 1980s

Ferenc
Guest

Here’s his latest facebook post (1hr ago) incl.his press conference about recent developments in Hungary
https://www.facebook.com/frans.timmermans/videos/1390950604261128/

wrfree
Guest

If Mr. Timmermans will go into ‘dialogue’ with Orban and Bayer hovering in the background he should be prepared with boxing gloves and a work out. If the past is an indication he probably has no idea how many rounds he and the EU have to go to hang in. Orban now is being trained to win with either a KO or TKO. The EU must need to watch for that ‘right’ jab coming out of nowhere. It could put them horizontal to the mat with all their dreams.

Guest

Could the EU finally be ready to address the problem with Hungary? I have no doubt Frans Timmermans has always been very critical of Viktor Orbán but it looks like Jean-Claude Juncker has finally had enough and is willing to move forward with the whole issue. Of course, the “Let’s stop Brussel” campaign comes at a very bad time and does not plea in favor of HU.

Observer
Guest

It’s a war

The threats by Bayer and the on the background of the overall ruthless, vindictive, unbridled political course of the Orban regime pose the question (not in my mind) about the politics of the next no Fidesz government toward the Orban mafia.
I was exasperated by the democratic side’s naiveté regarding the course to be taken against Orban’s Fidesz after the 2006 events, where many opinion leaders took all sorts of wishiy washi positions, nursing wishful delusions about “filling up the trenches” (i.e. burring the hatchet), etc. To me this was like sticking to the boxing rules against a street fighter brute with the predictable results.
The democratic side should be aware and prepared for the inevitable war to follow an eventual victory.

Ferenc
Guest

“democratic side should be aware and prepared for the inevitable war to follow an eventual victory”
That’s what I fear also to happen, an inevitable war, and probably starting before Fidesz’ loss. Furthermore the level of aggression will not depend on the democratic opposition side, but on the side now in power, and how they can cope with a fear of losing.

“The only thing to fear is fearlessness
The bigger the weapon, the greater the fear” – REM, 1986
in the Hungarian case replace weapon with power…………

Observer
Guest

Guys,
I translated the saying a la guerre comme a la guerre, i.e. don’t use half measures, do what’s required, once the alia jacta est. A very difficult task, I’m affraid, requiring uniform and strong political will.

BTW Widespread violence is highly improbable, since the democratic side has neither thugs nor police to employ and be crushed easily, at present. It doesn’t have yet crowds large enough to dissuade the regime from using violence.
Intimidation, dismissals from work places and arrests have been practiced against individuals for some time. The situation may, however, escalate quickly.

Observer
Guest

Sorry, my hurry again. Correction:

The threats by Bayer on the background of the overall ruthless, vindictive, unbridled political aggression of the Orban regime pose the question (not in my mind) about the politics of the next non-Fidesz government toward the Orban mafia.

Guest

The Orban mafiosi know that they are past forgiveness. Now they imagine that a civil war can save their necks.

pappp
Guest

You know what, I’m not sure CÖF (a perfect GONGO) could organize big rallies in Budapest any more. I think Orban had already hard time filling Kossuth tér (was it last October 23rd?) and his popularity is now much worse in Budapest.

I actually agree that Orban is trying to incite civil war or at least trying to create tensions which would be enough for physical violence. He cannot settle down, his tactics is always to ratchet up tension. He feeds on tension.

But the thing is he would need either to bus rural people into Budapest or allow local fideszniks (including football hooligans and other right-wing extremists controlled by Fidesz-loyal intelligence factions) to create violence, but local fideszniks in Budapest I think know well that here they already a small minority.

I think it’s rather unlikely that rural fideszniks who have no knowledge of the city would be flocking to ‘enemy’ Budapest territory.

webber
Guest

They can’t. Two years ago internal communication between CÖF and govt. was leaked, and CÖF wrote that they could not possibly get people together for another “Békemenet”. People will not go anymore. The same is true of Orbán’s March 15 speeches. Free buses will take people from all over the country to attend Orbán’s speech this year, like every year, and they could not even fill the square. Even country people are not willing to stand for Orbán in return for a free trip to Budapest. It is over.

Ron
Guest
Ron
Guest

What is the number of infringement procedures against Hungary from the EU.

Ron
Guest
Ron
Guest

Interesting I wondered why again a sudden move to the foreign hypermarkets via extra taxes and regulations on free buses and parking fees. It seems that Hungary is about to lose (my suspicion) the infringement procedure.

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-15-5375_en.htm

Member

If I’ve interpreted this correctly, it looks like the awkward task of cleaning up Orbán’s mess has fallen to László Palkovics, who has offered a kind of legal loophole to let CEU continue to issue American diplomas. Somehow I doubt he would suggest this idea on his own, so it must have come from someone higher up.

I love how the interviewer asks, “If this solution is so simple, then why didn’t the government communicate this before the law was passed and the waves of protest at home and abroad?” lol

http://hvg.hu/itthon/20170412_palkovics_laszlo_ceu

I’m guessing that this is a face-saving maneuver for the government to get itself out of its jam with the US, so it probably signals the end of the attack on CEU, though not necessarily the end of the issue of the law itself.

WinterWonderland
Guest
Don’t be ridiculous shoopy. Orban is not retreating an inch. Orban is consciously trying to force CEU to exist in a legal loophole – when in fact it was Orban who accused CEU of circumventing Hungarian laws and told that CEU ‘must comply with all Hungarians laws’ (implying falsely that CEU did not comply before). Now it is Orban who would actually require CEU to circumvent the laws. This is just the time honored peacock dance. Orban reckons that foreigners will lose their interest soon and anyway the actual wording of the laws are too complicated for them to understand and so he will end up with a ‘compromise’ which will keep the restrictions intact for all practical purposes. You need nerves of steel against Orban and he sure as shit will not retreat so quickly. The only retreat I can believe is if the law in its entirety is revoked (because it’s totally needless anyway) – he could still introduce it again any day. But a formal repeal would be a clear gesture. The Constitutional Court will never repeal the law which is so supported by Orban and Ader. The court will at most deliver some muddle, repealing some… Read more »
petofi
Guest

It is part of Orban’s trick bag to ratchet up the tension and then…deign to give a reprieve for CEU. By the sudden release of tension, people are led to believe that they have been ‘given’ something and therefore
feel thankful for the relief.

webber
Guest

That won’t work this time. People aren’t really protesting for CEU. 70,000 at one protest. Most of them never even heard of CEU before. They were there for an ENTIRELY different reason. The government can back down on CEU, but the protesters won’t really care. “Elegünk van!” is their slogan.

Tappanch
Guest

We occupied the main boulevard. The student crowd is at the Nyugati train station. “Down with dictator “

Tappanch
Guest

” mocskos Fidesz “

Tappanch
Guest

” democracy”

Tappanch
Guest

” we have come for consultation “. Former Marx square is occupied. Klubradio is cannot follow the events. ” kossuth square”

Tappanch
Guest

” elegünk van” we have had enough ! -on the Bajcsy zsilinszky road

Tappanch
Guest

Alkotmany utca was blocked by police cars. Towards Deak square. Lots of students. ” orban takarodj”

Tappanch
Guest

” dictator” at Basilica. Thousands of students.

Tappanch
Guest

The crowd has reached Deak square.” Gyertek velünk “.

Tappanch
Guest

We want a ” free country and free. (As not imprisoned) university”

Tappanch
Guest

Astoria.

Tappanch
Guest

9 pm. ” democracy ” on Kossuth street.

Tappanch
Guest

Vaci street, towards Parliament

Tappanch
Guest

“Europe, Europe” tens of thousands want to join the protesters who are already at Parliament.

Tappanch
Guest

Vörösmarty square. ” Parlamenthez”

Tappanch
Guest

Klubradio thinks that everybody is already at Parliament. Not so. Tens of thousands are still on their way.

Tappanch
Guest

MTA. ” down with Fidesz”

Tappanch
Guest

Arrived at parliament. “Orban takarodj”

Tappanch
Guest

90 per cent of the crowd are young students. ” Vége van, Viktor “

Tappanch
Guest

To Oktogon via Alkotmany street.

Tappanch
Guest

11 PM, Oktogon: “we have had enough”, we want democracy”

charles2
Guest

Orban will go on a longer holiday. He will probably visit his shrink in Graz or is he in Debrecen these days? Some people said he was treated lately at Kútvölgyi which is close to where he officially lives at Cinege utca.

Member
I am convinced…the fascists have lost Budapest (their control was always temporal anyway, it is too cosmopolitan, free thinking and well, intelligent for their sort to ever prosper) , it is now clearly an opposition city, the center of the fight against the dictatorial regime . The Olympic referendum fiasco should have been a warning for the Orbanists but events of the last week or so have proven to me that there is no way they can win a free election here (I wont speak for the conservative videki backwaters). Tonight was a way smaller crowd but it was an impressively young one, compared to Sunday. My feeling was that there were too many targets, post the main demo. Our focussed on the fascists main hq just off Heroes Sq and I think with more numbers we could have made more of an “impression” but others wandered off towards Oktagon and there was apparently an impressive sitdown there- I have heard from folk there that standersby were applauding the gesture. What happened after.. I will pass onto Mr Tapp. 🙂 Nationwide the tipping point is a bit off, in Budapest Orban just needs to make more one silly mistake and… Read more »
pappp
Guest

“I am also 100% sure that he won`t be toppled at the ballot box.”

Wrong. Although I can imagine Orban being toppled before that there is now a possibility (even if the probability is low) of defeating Orban. You need more imagination though.

The key, however, is the rural world, the poor, uneducated people who don’t use internet or at least not sufficiently regularly. Most of them probably haven’t even heard about CEU let alone about the demonstrations.

The other key element is the hitherto servile or at least mute right-wing middle class. Will they switch allegiance and if so to whom?

Ferenc
Guest

I suspect that most people in the, as you call it, “rural world”, who are supporting OV&Fidesz, get their info from the state RTV media.
That’s why there has to be found something so that even those people start having doubts about the truthfulness of those media.
BUT WHAT, HOW???

pappp
Guest

Sorry to be pessimistic, but there is a high chance that the upcoming French presidential elections will be similar to Brexit and the Trump victory. Rural people seem to want to send the strongest message possible to the elites and shake up the system. It might very well be that the two candidates getting into the 2nd round will be Le Pen and Mélenchon (who is a far left candidate wanting to drive France out of the EU). Buckle you seatbelts.

Member

One last thing I will say…the cops were perfect tonight, no hassle about moving us on or whatever. Loads of craic about the easter break, why we are in Bpest etc

petofi
Guest

The cops are on their best behavior because there’s absolutely no threat. If there was, the miscreants would either get a free tour of Siberia, or simply, a freshly salted plutonium sandwich.

webber
Guest

The cops, the ordinary ones, hate Orbán too.

Roderick Beck
Guest

Did any of you ever consider that the anti-CEU bill was simply an impulsive, short sighted decision by paranoid Orbán? I don’t think it was smart move by Orbán. The US did not fall for the negotiation gambit and I doubt the CEU will stay in Budapest unless the law clearly permits them.

An autocracy inside the EU must play its cards carefully. This move will alienate the US and might tip the balance against Hungary in the EU.

wpDiscuz