Viktor Orbán is playing with fire with those itchy Christian palms

It was only a couple of weeks ago that Zsolt Bayer reacted to a series of demonstrations with the following threatening words: “We will also be on the streets to protect what is important and sacred for us. And we will be very angry. So, for a while you can rant and rave, you can try to tear the parliament apart, the ministries, the Fidesz headquarters, the president’s office, you can attack the policemen, assault journalists—for a while. But then no longer. Then you will experience what it feels like to be persecuted and threatened. I’m telling you we are very angry. Is it clear?” LMP’s Bernadett Szél decided to file charges against Zsolt Bayer for “public incitement.”

Bayer is not the kind of guy who, once he has a “cause,” abandons it easily. He promptly answered his critics in an article published in Magyar Idők in which he recalled all the questionable actions of socialist politicians in 2002, as if they had anything to do with the issue at hand. Then, he continued, today’s demonstrators bellow “You will hang!” “To jail!” And they attack journalists. This is what can be called “incitement,” not his answer to all these provocations, which simply states “we will also go out to the streets.” Naturally, they will be peaceful as they always were in the past. His response to the “sniveling” Bernadett Szél is that they will not create a Hungarian Maidan. “I can promise you, and you can call this promise a threat.”

Zsolt Bayer was one of the organizers of those peace marches (békemenetek) which, according to Viktor Orbán, saved him when foreign powers tried to topple his government in 2012. In the past three years or so the organizers haven’t tried to stage a mega-demonstration because the last couple of times they tried, their efforts were flops. Therefore, I consider it highly unlikely that Bayer and his friends in CÖF, the government-sponsored NGO, will try to organize a large demonstration for their beloved leader, Viktor Orbán.

On the other hand, there are groups of people who are not so “peaceful” as the older recruits of the peace marches. These less than savory characters, some from the fan club of the Ferencváros football team, have a very bad reputation when it comes to exercising physical force on the streets of Budapest and elsewhere. They were the ones who attacked the building of the Hungarian public television station in September 2006. This was the first time that Fidesz used these football hooligans for political purposes, but they also showed up on other occasions, the most notorious being the time they prevented István Nyakó (MSZP) from submitting his application for a referendum on Sunday store closings.

Bayer is not the only one who is providing ideological ammunition to these groups. A relative newcomer is a certain János Somogyi, who describes himself as a “retired lawyer” and who is a regular commentator at Magyar Idők. His opinion pieces are viciously anti-American, anti-capitalist, and anti-globalist. He is a great supporter of Vladimir Putin and everything Russian. A few weeks ago he was still a supporter of Donald Trump, but who knows what will happen if Trump doesn’t fulfill his and Orbán’s expectations. His tone is aggressive and bears an uncanny resemblance to the articles published in the communist party’s official daily newspaper, Szabad Nép, before 1956. As far as he is concerned, the demonstrators are “pitiful characters.” Most of them are only misled, though others are “provocateurs in the pay of foreign powers.” They are a nuisance, and “many of us are running out of patience.” The demonstrations are getting to a point where retaliation can be expected. In order to describe his and others’ waning patience, he used the Hungarian equivalent of the word for a carnival strength tester, the high striker– “pofozógép,” punching machine. Actually, he uses the word “pofonosláda” (punching box), which I couldn’t find in the Magyar Értelmező Szótár. But what is important is the word “pofozó” or “pofonos”(punching, slapping) because, as we will see, János Somogyi’s inspiration for dredging up such a rarely used Hungarian word came from none other than Viktor Orbán, the prime minister of Hungary.

Three days before Somogyi’s article about the punching machine/box Viktor Orbán gave an interview to Kossuth Rádió’s Vasárnapi Újság. It was during this interview, while discussing the demonstrations, that Orbán talked about people’s hankering to strike out. The reporter, Katalin Nagy, told Orbán that some well-known provocateurs were planning to disturb the Easter procession around the Basilica. Although she is a “peaceful Calvinist,” hearing about such a barbarity was like a punch in the gut. How long must one endure all this, she asked. It was at that point that Orbán said that “many people’s palms are itching. Even the palms of those who otherwise are peaceful and upright Christians.” As I explained in an earlier post, an itchy palm for Orbán means a yen to hit someone or slap someone around.

And that takes us back to a bunch of skinheads and football hooligans who already made a brief appearance at one of the demonstrations but were soon removed by police. Now, these people are organizing a counter-demonstration, scheduled for tomorrow at 7:00 p.m. in “downtown Budapest :)” (I keep wondering what this smiley really means.) The organizers got a lot of requests for such a demonstration because people are fed up with the pseudo-civilians, George Soros, CEU (which is a janissary school), and with the demonstrations in general, which in their opinion are a combination of a pre-Pride march and Woodstock. They don’t want see either an Arab Spring or a Ukrainian Maidan in Hungary. They don’t want an army under the EU flag to influence Hungary’s domestic affairs. “Let’s retake the streets, so Hungary and Budapest can again belong to Hungarians.” Retaking the streets of Budapest sounds pretty frightening to me. The last time I looked, 226 people had indicated that they would attend and 674 are interested.

Tamás Poszpischek, organizer of the demonstration to retake the streets of Budapest

Who will take responsibility for the itchy palms of these good Christians? The extremist organizers, already at the Sunday demonstration, got into a heated discussion with some of the protesters while abusing Soros and Jews in general. Five or six people posed no threat then, but what if several hundred gather tomorrow in “downtown Budapest” for a “medicinal walk”?

Mária M. Kovács, a history professor at CEU, wrote about the itchy palms of good Christians on her Facebook page: “If István Bethlen in 1928 had said that the palms of the Christians are itching, there would have been a national scandal. The parliamentary opposition would have screamed, newspapers would have carried the news on their front pages, and most likely there would have been fist fights at the universities. But István Bethlen didn’t say such a thing.” Yes, this is how far Viktor Orbán has moved to the right. With his coded anti-Semitic remarks that no one even notices, the prime minister himself is leading the troops toward a possible physical confrontation.

April 21, 2017
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Delta sounds
Guest

This old woman Poszpischek doesn’t look that tough to me, but you never know.

wrfree
Guest

Re: ‘…. Orbán said that “many people’s palms are itching. Even the palms of those who otherwise are peaceful and upright Christians’

Yep they sure can’t wait to beat people up ….like they stole the Lord’s Last Supper.

petofi
Guest

Oh, oh, they’re about to pass a bill to the jews again…

Melanie Zuben
Guest
petofi
Guest

Melanie-baby (make the water hotter).

No one needs to tell me anything about the gypsy king of Europe, after all, I lived some years in Budapest in the warm glow of his asininity.

Anyone who can’t decide for himself that Orban/Trump are buffoons just haven’t read enough of the classics or of history.

petofi
Guest

correction: haven’t to hasn’t

Guest

“……this is how far Viktor Orbán has moved to the right.”

Orbán has not moved further to the right. He is right where he has always been – representing no particular party, left or right, and no particular policy other than himself, a violent aggressor, who lashes out at everyone who criticizes or questions his actions.

He incited violence in 2006, and hid behind the hooligans who led the so called “peace-marches”.

The difference now is that he is brazenly and openly announcing physical retaliation against genuinely peaceful Hungarians who disagree with him.

He is committing verbal genocide, which his thugs will put into action, and like the coward that he is, he will say that he has nothing to do with it – the tricks of the trade which he learned at his communist father’s knees, no doubt.

What, I wonder, will the EU make of violence in the streets of Budapest. Will they still continue to fund this madman?

Thank goodness for the likes of Bernadette Szél!

Ferenc
Guest

OV isn’t openly supporting violence, he’s mainly warning the demonstrators for it and therewith provoking them to (counter-)violence. If such will happen, the, so far peaceful, demonstrators will be blamed and OV gets more options which way to continue against each and every one opposing him.
And “what will the EU make of violence in the streets of Budapest?”, well they can do very little. They will be informed by OV&Co, who are to blame for the violence, and without an, seemingly impossible, independent investigation, the EU will have nothing in hand against OV.

So main thing for all demonstrators:
DON’T GET PROVOKED INTO VIOLENCE!! AND EVEN BE CAREFUL WITH SELF-DEFENSE!!

Ferenc
Guest

And don’t forget that OV&Co have already “M1 evidence” about aggression in the previous demonstrations
(nothing happened, but M1 reported otherwise, and I have read/heard nobody going against those reports!)

Bastiat2
Guest

The EU won’t do much. They will be far too busy with the aftermath of the French election and their little bureaucrats business. For Eurocrats, Hungary is some small country far away, only worth considering when nothing else is in the news.

aida
Guest

BBC World Service broadcast a dicussion on Orban with contributions inter Ali’s from Thorpe, Schopflin and Peter Rona. It is available as a podcast. It included Fox News incantation of anti Soros rhetoric that he is not accountable on how he spends his own money.
It also covered Orban’s aim to defend Christianity using methods that are widely condemned by Christians starting with the Pope.
The EU connection was only mentioned coincidentally by Schopflin that on the EU checklist Hungary has been given a clean bill of health apart from money laundering.

Guest

Can you display a link to that report please, as I cannot find it on the BBC site.
Surprised Thorpe is still reporting at all on Hungary, in view of the numerous complaints about his bias for Orbán.

aida
Guest

Thorpe was sent to Hungary when the conditions were very different. He has family there and he is vulnerable. He should have been replaced and found another job. He knows perfectly well what Orban is doing, but dare he say it?
The programme concentrated on the promotion of the nation, nationalist, illeberal state concept. It gave a useful insight into the argument around the CEU and NGOs.
It will need another programme to explore the Fidesz corruption and greed. The EU is presumably fully aware how prevelant money laundering is in Hungary and also that it relates to EU funds and does nothing.
Rona made the point that Hungary’s economy is sustained by EU funding and contributions from guest workers in UK and Germany. The domestic economy is static at best.

Member

I have some level of sympathy for Fidesz Nick- he was almost silent during the programme and at one stage the presenter even stated something along the lines of “I know it is difficult for you to comment on events there”!!!

But the BBCs remit is to provide an independent news service and Thorpes too close connections with the regime prevent him from doing that. Compare his reports to those with the other international media folk working and living here- they have the courage to tell it as it is.

Having said that, it must be one of the most cushy posts at the Beeb- his output could hardly be described as “prolific” and all those lovely expensive restaurant dinners paid for by the regime…

Ferenc
Guest

Just found this (and listening now):
BBC World Service 2017.Apr.21 – Newshour Extra – Hungary: Protest and Populism (50min)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04zvr2j

CSCSA
Guest

Somogyi Janos is probably a pseudonym.

Pofonosláda is a very strange word indeed, I kinda think the same man might have written this peace in Magyar Idők who wrote that speech for Orban about that “muszkavezető”. Extremely strange words which may have been used a 100 years ago but nobody uses them these days. Pofonosláda was apparently used in a limited number of internet articles in the last few years in connection with WWI events but I’ve never heard of it (“megrázom a pofonfát” is also extremely rare, but at least I’ve heard about it).

Those itchy Christian palms obviously want to beat up those rootless, cosmopolitan, Jewish, Soros-supporters. The smiley means it will be fun to beat up those “Jews” (whomever they can find as CEU supporters). Beating up urban liberals and forcing them into submission is always the best fun for Orban and the people around him.

But can Orban really fire up his base? He’s certainly playing with fire, he went all in, but I don’t think the situation is the same as it was in 2006. The Russian/Chechen line of pressure probably works better these days unfortunately.

bimbi
Guest

Yesterday Klub Radio broadcast a recording of János Kádár talking about George Soros. His words and tone were identical with what is in use by Orbán and Fidesz today. Why use new slander when old slander will do?

Then it seems Mr. Gyurcsány has suggested that Mr. Orbán is indeed under Putyin’s direct ‘Kompromat’ influence and subject to persuasion through blackmail.

Things have taken a sinister, more uncontrolled turn in Hungary (and the EU) lately. One starts to think that the astute player is not in control of the game anymore.

CSCSA
Guest

Gyurcsany has nothing on Orban. He’s just participating in the show. He’s provoking Orban that’s all. He knows he can.

Gyurcsany was prime minister, his closest confidante Szilvasy was the minister overseeing the secret services. They had access to everything.

If Gyurcsany had anything on Orban he would’ve published it long ago. After all it was Orban who politically finished Gyurcsany off.

Gyurcsany has nothing.

bimbi
Guest

@CSCSA, 3:34 a.m.

You checked with Mr. Gyurcsany personally, of course?

aida
Guest

If he had Orban would have locked him up but you are right he has nothing on Orban. Putin has.

wrfree
Guest
Re: ‘Things have taken a sinister more uncontrolled turn…’ Speech to the Hungarian nation by John Paul II on the millenium of St. Stephen’s coronation: ‘In the course of its glorious past, Hungary was also Christianity’s bulwark against the invasion of the Tartars and Turks. Of course, such a broad span of time did not want for dark moments; it was not without the bitter experience of withdrawals and defeats, which we must critically examine in a way that will shed light on responsibilities and prompt us to turn, in the final analysis, to the mercy of God, who can draw good even from evil. However, the history of your homeland as a whole is full of splendid lights in both the religious and the civil sphere, arousing the admiration of all who undertake its study’ With this, the catacombs and the crypt of John Paul who was a catalyst in bringing down the ‘walls’ of hate and servitude must be rustling. It is ironic that after the centuries the former bastion of a Christian Europe has itself chosen a path of darkness and to go so far as to lose some critical perspective in its management of the formerly… Read more »
Member

As we can see once again from Orban, Bayer and their Fradi hooligan army, the fascistsinstinctive reaction in Hungary is not to debate or argue their point of view but to lash out with violence.

Contrast that with the humor and peaceful nature of the pro-democracy youngsters.

Orban and Bayer are the worst kind of cowardly scum...they provoke their hooligan army into beating peaceful teenagers and students senseless whilst they sit back and laugh.

Bayer wont bring the COF pensioners onto the streets again. The potential for a PR disaster is just too great- it will be like the Nuremburg rallies all over again with more anti-Semitic and racist slogans and chants than you can shake a stick at.

pappp
Guest

It’s fun. It’s so much fun. Seeing urban kids run and hear them scream as Fradist thugs are beating them up, that’s pleasure. Pure pleasure. There’s no greater enjoyment than this. Orban is unable to defer gratification, he needs pleasure and with CEU he’s getting it.

Remember that Orban designated Kristóf Altusz an unknown deputy state secretary at the Foreign Ministry as his new point man for ‘negotiating’ with governments which may be affected by the new anti-CEU laws?

Altusz is already meeting the ambassadors of Malaysia and Thailand, no less, next week for thorough negotiations. See, he’s doing his job, working hard, but if the Americans don’t want to negotiate, that’s OK too.

Orban is laughing his ass off. He’s enjoying himself. It’s actually much better than what he hoped for. He just can’t get enough of this enjoyment so he will keep doing it.

Member

A PM of a European Union country laughing his “ass off” at the tbought of his young citizens being beaten to a pulp by his neo-Nazi supporters. He is a deeply psychotically damaged individual

oktogon tér 0
Guest

Orban is insane (probably psychotic) and is clearly sadistic.

But he is the prime minister so we just as the EPP leaders and Juncker, Merkel and so on must pretend that he is healthy.

wrfree
Guest

Re: ‘Fradi… hooligan army’..

Beats the heck out of me to expect a ‘resurgence’ of Magyar futbol with that kind of an outfit on the periphery. Tough enough to even bang the onion into the old onion bag.

Member

@D7Democrat, You were wrong.
The peace march took actually place again just today with about 1500 demonstrators for the government for Russia and against everybody else.
70000 poles were also expected to participate, but they were stuck in a traffic jam.

Article 7
Guest

As I understand it, the 1956 revolution turned from a “peaceful” demonstration to a attempt at a violent revolution when when the demonstrators were attacked by the authorities.

I expect that violence is the only way of riding Hungary of Viktor Orban and his mechanical supporters. If true, its unfortunate and I am a bit surprised that Viktor and his band of thugs haven’t learned from that lesson. Perhaps Viktor and his henchmen are voicing threats of violence as a result of the pressure they are feeling.

Guest

Orbán is not playing with fire. He is threatening with arson.

Mr C.H.
Guest

I am not political left/right, but Fidesz is out of control. I think they are very right that their old rhetorics is enough so far. BUT they are ignorant that Hungarians are stand-up-people,.. Usually nothing happens, but the social media and youtube etc are game changer this 50+ fidesz guys are just underestimating. When you see Vona’s exposure of corruption, people ll get angry. Not 1st time not 3rd but after 10th watching of it.. I wish hungary a change in government whoever might govern cause change is a sign of functioning democracy

Member

“We are not slaves!” (written in Russian!);
“More stadiums, less hospitals”;
“Dont shop at CEU". http://index.hu/belfold/2017/04/22/elkezdodott_a_ketfarku_kutyapart_bekemenete/

Just a few of the slogans at the Kutya Ketfarku demo this afternoon, completely destroying the regime with satire *and* at the same time making sure that Bayer and the rest of the neo-nazis wont organise another pro-regime ¬march¬. The reality would be just so close to the irony….

lukimen
Guest

Satire is great for the within-Nagykörút set. Beyond that nobody gets it. Many conservatives will actually be happy because they take that humor at face value and like the pro-Fidesznik slogans. Humor is great but not every kind of humor is gotten by working class average joes.

Member

Ah, that would have been a great slogan “Down with the Nagy Koruti Intelligentsia!”. I

think what you are saying is that the conservatives are simpletons who will take “Close hospitals, open stadiums” as policy objectives as opposed to satirical criticism. Maybe you are right, I will never over-estimate the intelligence of the typical Fideszik.

The working-class couldnt give a toss? Yes, maybe. They certainly have not mobilised against the regime yet. But that also misses the point that the successful regime overthrows of recent history have almost been 100% middle-class and 100% urban based.

Orban is hated in Budapest. He knows he dare not appear in public never mind give a speech there. When the inevitable end comes, I predict he will be swinging from a lamp post (metaphorically, lets hope) in the capital 2 or 3 days before the news has even been reached the countryside.

pappp
Guest

It’s a bit more complicated I think. There are signs which people will simply not understand because they will say, “what’s funny in that? I actually agree with that”. They will see these “jokes” as some kind of an elite joke at the expense of average joes, like you have to be a professor to be allowed to laugh.

I remember when KKP did its first round of funny billboards 2 years ago making fun of the “Ha Magyarországra jössz” government campaign (I also donated money to the KKP) I saw some funny billboards from the bus for 2 sec and I was asking myself what was funny in that? And then minutes later I got the punch line, but some were just was to complicated, overly sophisticated.

Average joes (the median voter) are uneducated and hate intellectual humor. They like reality shows and suchlike. If there’s humor in that, like one player taking out his penis or something, then that’s funny, they get that. Anything more complicated than that, forget it.

Member

“It’s a bit more complicated I think”
No, trust me, it aint. People are laughing at Orban and his pathetic little attempts to set up a Magyarorsztan dictatorship in the middle of the EU An EU, the money of which, he needs to keep his pathetic little maffia kormany up and running

.They are making fun of the things he and his fellow fascists take seriously.

Did irony ever take down a dictatorship? Not as far as I know. But you know, as well as I do that these kind of jokes do impact on Orban in a way it doesnt on the really top boys (eg Erdogan, Putyin).
Orban is strictly 2nd rate and it so much fun to rile him and his puffed up lapdogs.

Observer
Guest

The avr Joe has the Jobbik posters – as simple as it gets:
You work, they steel, this is why there’s no money for …

Humor is a potent weapon and KKP are very good at that.

Member

Government media (M1, Origo) yesterday night: not a word about the Kétfarkú parody demonstration. (Instead, streets in the inner city were closed because of a biking event.) And then, of course, Soros-Soros-Soros, and the bad bad immigrants who are making life impossible in Western Europe.

I was really in a masochist mood and watched the “royal” TV news. A special treat from Germany: while my acquaintances in Cologne are reporting about the march for tolerance (as a protest to the AfD meeting) – peaceful, happy atmosphere, many families marching there with little children – the Hungarian state news present the whole thing as a violent riot of leftwing anarchists, showing them attacking the police.

Guest

OT. Trump has triggered a world wide wave of demonstrations for science and against obscurantism.

I just participated in such a demonstration. The crowd was huge. The best sign to my taste said: “I am the square root of -1”.

Guest

I am afraid that lukimen (above) will find my choice of best sign a particularly bad example.

Guest

Then they should have played “Imagine” too!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagine_(John_Lennon_song)
Though I fear that John’s visions would be considered “imaginary” by many people today …
imagine a world at peace without the barriers of borders or the divisions of religion and nationality, and to consider the possibility that the focus of humanity should be living a life unattached to material possessions.

petofi
Guest

@wolfi7777

“…a life unattached to material possessions.”

Yeah, right. Try telling a Hungarian that Paul Manafort got a contract from a Pyutin doppelganger at
10 million dollars a year for 10 years…and see if the Hungarian foams at the mouth or not.

This the Age of Money Politics and with a (c.) 500 billion fortune in the clammy hands of Pyutin, that makes the world his oyster. Schroder, Orban, Trump,
and now Le Pen.

As we use to say during the Cuban missile crisis in the 60’s…bend over and kiss your ass good-bye.

petofi
Guest

By the way, the story of Trump’s sale of a distressed property in Florida that he had bought for 40 million and turned around and sold it two years later at 100 million to one of Pyutin’s oligarchs. (What business acumen, eh?)

But the interesting thing here is that this all took place back in 2003. It seems that it took 12 years to subvert the Republican Party sufficiently that a buffoon of the miniscule stature of Donald…could win the Republican primary. After that, it was just a matter of hacking the election machinery…

petofi
Guest

Oh, and by the way, Commey (the FBI director) is in on the game, too.

petofi
Guest

But then again, when someone is slinging around 100 million or so, who could resist?

petofi
Guest

I imagine that back in 2014 or whenever it was that Trump had the pageant in Moscow, he had a sit-down withVlad who put only one question to him: “How would you like to be the 2nd richest man on the planet AND get even with all your enemies as well?”

petofi
Guest

(The aliens among us must be having a ball…)

Guest

The March for Science in Washington was a giant demonstration against Trump.

http://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/4/19/14331168/science-march-earth-day-route-livestream-signs-speakers

petofi
Guest

Each and every civilized person must take himself to some hillside and ponder the roots of the ethical demise of today’s world; and to plot the path that he must promote to return
civilization to good sense, honour, and decency…

Observer
Guest

Isn’t it so perverse, so silly: a picture of a bleeding head (not from a pub brawl) or a burning car make the world news and prompt foreign governments to make strong statements and act.
What about the destruction of a democracy, the overtake of the media, the firing, intimidating and silencing of tens of thousands, the emaciating of the healthcare resulting in the deaths of thousands, the detention of hundreds on trumped up charges, the orgy of corruption robbing a nation not only of its wealth, but also of its future ? All these elicit are polite “concerns” about “threats to democracy”, etc.
I can’t see a Velvet Revolutions in the Orban’s fascist regime case, Majdan would be the entry level.

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