Sources of Fidesz propaganda: Foreign and domestic alt-right sites

While I was doing background research for my post on how the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei’s reference to the “evil multibillionaire Zionist-American” as applied to George Soros made it to the evening news of M1, the Hungarian Television’s news channel, I became fascinated with the question of how and from where Hungarian right-wing sites get their information.

As I discussed in that post, George Soros, based on Khamenei’s accusation, intended to overthrow Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in 2009, and he was instrumental in the ouster of President Eduard Shevardnadze of Georgia, an event normally described as the Rose Revolution. It derives its name from the climactic moment, when demonstrators led by Mikheil Saakashvili stormed the parliamentary session, red roses in hand. As far as Khamenei is concerned, Soros was guilty in the overthrow of Shevardnadze, but the truth is not at all clear-cut. In the three years prior to the Georgian regime change, foreign support for Shevardnadze’s regime had declined. The United States announced a reduction in aid, and the International Monetary Fund suspended aid to the country. Foreign governments and individuals, among them George Soros, gave financial aid to NGOs, but surely if the time had not been ripe for a regime change, Soros’s $1.5 million wouldn’t have mattered.

Hungarian journalists working on the news that night were not satisfied with these two claims and looked for other instances in which Soros’s financing of NGOs made a difference in election outcomes. They pointed to the 2015 election in Canada where Justin Trudeau’s Liberal Party achieved an overwhelming victory against the Conservative Stephen Harper, who had been prime minister for the previous 12 years. The win was so large that it impossible to fathom that the couple of millions of dollars Soros may have given to Canadian NGOs would have made any difference. But the real question is: did George Soros’s NGOs tip the Canadian elections? I’m almost certain they didn’t.

M1’s claim is based on an article that appeared in the Calgary Herald. It reported that an organization called Canada Decides filed a complaint in which it claimed that “the outcome of the 2015 election was skewed by money from wealthy foreigners.” According to the complaint, the culprit was the U.S. based Tides Foundation, which gave $1.5 million to Canadian third parties. One of the three directors of Canada Decides is a former Conservative MP from Calgary who lost her seat to a Liberal in the election in question. I should add that George Soros’s name is not mentioned in the Calgary Herald article. Only questionable sources claim that Soros was funneling some of his money through the Tides Foundation. For example, Activist Post, which specializes in conspiracy theories and pseudoscience, claims that Soros is the largest contributor to the Tides Foundation, but I doubt that since the Tides Foundation’s total assets were $284,560,083 in 2015.

But let’s move on to Hungarian “fake news” sites. This morning a friend of mine called my attention to a Zsolt Bayer article which appeared on Bayer’s blog Bádog. Thanks to that article, I became acquainted with a number of far-right Hungarian sites. From the look of it, Hungarian extreme right “journalists” freely take over each other’s articles. Zsolt Bayer, without changing a word, copied an article which appeared on the alt-right site Magyar Közösség on May 25. The fake news this time was that “19 girls have disappeared without a trace from the location of the terror attack in Manchester.” If you try to find the origin of this story in English, you are out of luck. There are many stories about children who got lost and were eventually found, but nothing about 19 missing girls. A Cosmopolitan article even wrote about ostensibly Muslim taxi drivers who helped many children get home free of charge after the attack. The author of the Hungarian story, on the other hand, was convinced that the girls were kidnapped by these Muslim taxi drivers and sold as sex slaves. The British government is fully aware of it all, the article claims, but “it cannot tell it to the public because otherwise there would be a revolt.”

Brits out, Turks in. They would replace Brits with Turks

You would think that Magyar Közösség was the original source of the story. But no, it had already appeared on another far-right site, Világlátó, on May 24. The number of news items that appear every day on this particular site is truly remarkable. It is an Islamophobic site which just today, for example, informed its readers that “ISIS actually represents 1.5 billion Muslims” and therefore “Europe is doomed.” Or, “We must be prepared for a huge new wave of refugees: 500 million people may head toward Europe.” Or, “The Pentagon is said to be in complete panic after a ‘Russian super gun’ paralyzed the protection of Alaska.” Or, “About half of the potential terrorists are in Germany.”

What I’m driving at is that Fidesz’s well-known journalists, like Zsolt Bayer, have a strong affiliation with far-right Hungarian circles. They publish on each other’s news sites and borrow each other’s stories. It is high time to call Fidesz and its propaganda machine what it is: a far-right party that relies on far-right western and domestic sources for at least some of its news. The state propaganda apparatus–television, radio, and the internet–influences and misleads millions of people.

May 28, 2017
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I_reborn
Guest

You are masquerading in the role of Jeanne d’Arc – Joan of Arc of democratic values while your own blog is under fascist rules. Isn’t that a bit of irony?

It is time to either bring your blog under the free commenting rules by eliminating censorship and free all blocked commenters, or close the blog down all together. The choice is yours but the time to make the right one is running out.

Eva this my the last request to open up your blog to everybody or you will find it on a collision course that will bring it down. Do not blame me for the demise of your ultra left-lib hateful invasions propaganda machine when it dies because of your stubbornness.

Member

Poor baby! It seems that somebody hurt your precious feelings.

Do you have anything substantive to add to the content of today’s post or are you just going to whine and make empty threats?

If it’s the former, we are happy to debate with you. If it’s the latter, I suggest that we all ignore your pointless ramblings, which are designed to distract us from today’s blog post.

ps. This is Eva’s blog and she can run it however the hell she wants to. If you don’t like it you can take a hike. Just sayin’. (Same goes for me and and anyone else for that matter)

I_reborn
Guest

@ shoopy … this is the very subject of my complaint … I cannot debate you or anybody else on this site because the operator of this site is employing fascist censorship. And for the empty threats? Just keep your eyes on this blog and you will see how empty it was.

As far as her rights to run the blog as she wants I would debate it if I was not locked out. This is not a home gardening site rather an extremely hostile hatemongering blog against the Hungarian Nation, the Hungarian People and against the country called Hungary by a foreign entity that has no ties to such country and keeps publishing her (or her puppet master’s) opinion masquerading as facts.

Do not lecture me about how I can steer clear of this site rather join the fight for freedom of speech or freedom of expression not only in Hungary but on blogs that deal with Hungarian affairs and that includes this site too.

She is blocking me and others who don’t agree with her because she is unwilling or unable to defend her opinions and wants to suppress any and all opposing views.

I_reborn
Guest

@ shoopy … I see your point. Everybody who does not agree with her relentless attacks on the rights of the Hungarian People for self-determination should just “take a hike” and let her to continue undermining the democratically elected Hungarian Government to serve the interest of her well paying “employer”. Sorry my Friend but I cannot do it. Either we have the option to contact fair debate over the content of the blogs or the blog has to come down. There is no third way. I invested too much time and energy into this fight to give it up. I trust that you will understand this even if you do not agree and as a member you will put some pressure onto the operator to run the site in accordance with her demands toward the Hungarian Government. Democratically!

LwiiH
Guest

And here within lies the problem, you’ve started your post using the same old borish position that an attack on Fidesz is an attack on Hungary. If you had bothered to read this blog on a regular basis you would have seen that this arguement has been rejected for what it is, bunk.

Next point, Eva has been very liberial in her acceptance of commenters as long as they are factual and respectful. The very few that I’ve seen been banned from posting have been personal in their attacks or simply seen as being deliberately and belligerently disruptive to the discussions. You dont have to agrre with her, but you do have be civil when engaging and come to the table with real arguements. Starting by saying this is an attack on the hungarian people is, a non-starter.

I_reborn
Guest
@ LwiiH …. Please reread my comment and point out for me where did I imply “attack on Fidesz is an attack on Hungary”. I wrote “extremely hostile hatemongering blog against the Hungarian Nation, the Hungarian People and against the country called Hungary “not even mentioning the name of the democratically elected PM or the governing party. But of course for the left-libs there is no valid argument so I am not expecting any revision of your comment. As far as Eva has been very liberial I concur, but not the rest of your comment. I started out very nicely arguing the single issue I am interested in that is the rejection of the EU’s immigration policy regarding Hungary. I was attacked and labeled by “her supporters” for my view that this issue shall be decided by the Hungarian People alone, not by somebody who has no ties to the Country, lives 7,000 km away, well protected against the invasion of hordes of barbarians by the ocean and her newly elected president. Therefore I didn’t start “by saying this is an attack on the Hungarian people is, (you are correct) a non-starter, rather a consequential standing my ground. I can… Read more »
LwiiH
Guest
Here is a reminder…. “This is not a home gardening site rather an extremely hostile hatemongering blog against the Hungarian Nation, the Hungarian People and against the country called Hungary by a foreign entity that has no ties to such country and keeps publishing her (or her puppet master’s) opinion masquerading as facts”. If you’ve been following the blog you’d know this is bunk. Eva has plenty of ties to Hungary. The hordes you speak about are people running away from violence. The fear mongering is baseless. The terrorist attacks have been committed by mostly 3rd generation (can you even call them that after the 2nd generation???) immigrants. This, according to researcher, the radicalization comes by way of the grandparents trying to preserve their traditions. But, it also comes as a result of these groups being excluded from the mainstream of society. Take the situation in Belgium for example. There was no-one from these communities in the police or security forces, no one that spoke the language of the community. In fact they didn’t have an Arab speaker in the security forces until after the Paris attacks. You want to aid the radicalization? This is a great way to do… Read more »
Member

Oh you special, special little snowflake. Someone on the internet is wrong! You must be very sad.

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I_reborn
Guest

@shoopy … your sarcasm has no effect on me. When you grow up to be able to think, you might have a chance to understand the issues, until just go back to the kindergarten and play in the sand.

Zsuzsa
Guest

I_reborn – you are a troll

I_reborn
Guest

@Zsuzsa … it is an honors to be commented by such an expert and the depository of vision, truth and God’s words. Thank you for not missing me. I am looking forward to more of your wise declarations.

Zsuzsa
Guest

the feeling is not mutual. and speaking of wisdom, from now on I will skip your posts. I often wondered if posters like you are 12 or simply haven’t grown out of ringing doorbells and running away. there is something in not feeding the trolls.

old1956
Guest

Good job, but the Sputniknews disinfo affairs were left out.

Iran, Turkey, Hungary, Poland, and most Western newspapers just parrot what Moscow spreads.

Guest

Do you mean the majority of British newspapers which are under “foreign control”?

The Express etc are all owned by billionaires who live outside Britain and pay no taxes and they spout right wing propaganda day and night.
It’s funny in a way that the right wing extremists tell the same alternative facts as the Russian RT sputnik etc – and as Eva showed the Iran does the same. It’s acrazy world!

Not too much OT:
An example of how they are trying to manipulate is shown again by my favourite debunking site snopes.com:
http://www.snopes.com/same-girl-crying-now-oregon/
It’s difficult to decide which is bigger – the stupidity or the hate?

wrfree
Guest

The Internet.. that which giveth also taketh away. With the alt-right, it is an extremely useful companion medium to be used as a sort of alt-presentation of alt-realities which will conform to whichever ‘alt-story’ needs to be told to the millions. And you don’t even have to be ‘there’. No problem just make it up. Who cares what is ‘true?’

And to all respects it inhabits its own isolated alt-universe.
A living glass bell jar for those who think themselves very wise but cynics at bottom stewing in simmering grievances. What we have are tweets and blog ‘journalism’ in free fall with the requisite inanities.

I_reborn
Guest

@ wrfree … very well said, except it applies to both alts left and right.
As we witness it every day in the USA there is no way to know what is true and what is semi-true and what is outright lie.

wrfree
Guest

If the operation of the internationized Internet is an indication each and every day it is apparent that dictatorships and those of the ‘alt-democracy’ persuasion cannot countenance an open and chaos-free Net. The object then short of completely shutting it down is the support for the continuous trolling of disinformation. And the tightening of screws so as to orient debate in different directions. It’s the matter if putting off all obto another ‘scent’. And the more muckraking the better to distort realities. Autocracy always runs on the combinations.

This blog now unfortunately is an example of the Net’s insidious current workings. I believe it’s been for awhile. Looks to be doing its job in our functioning democracy. We and all who respect free societies should be so ever vigilant.

I_reborn
Guest

@ wrfree ….. what exactly is your “functioning democracy” and “free societies”? Is it the world where some handful liberal think-tanks through blogs and NGOs decree what is right and what is wrong, what is morally acceptable and what is not, who should be allowed to enter into a country without due process and who should not? Or who should enjoy the freedom of speech and who shot up?

petofi
Guest

Eva,
Trolls like I_reborn are kidnapping the blog with their continues droppings. If you don’t bar him, at least limit him to a maximum of 3 comments of no more than 10 lines each…

petofi
Guest

“continues” — “continuous”

wrfree
Guest

Re: ‘free societies’

We can indubitably see a European casualty on that score what with seeing how a Constitution constantly got tinkered with to disturb how power gets distributed throughout the political system. The result is as Washington noted in his Farewell Address creating governments ‘too feeble to withstand the enterprises of faction’. The ruin is ‘public liberty’ and a deterioration of strong institutions dedicated to that object.

I_reborn
Guest

@ LwiiH … Eva may has plenty of ties to Hungary, but she doesn’t live there; therefore the results of her activities will not impact her existence in the USA whatever they are. Not so the local people whom have one Homeland only and have to suffer the consequences of the forced upon them migration.

I_reborn
Guest

Finally somebody has some thoughts rather than trying to get rid of me. What a fresh breeze! Pls see my reply at Today 6:06 pm.

Zsuzsa
Guest

or he could be ignored

Ferenc
Guest

That’s the best way!!!

Guest

@I-reused (that just had to be …):
Usually it’s not too difficult to discern what’s propaganda – anything by RT etc or breitbart, infowars is obviously tainted …
Just one look at their homepages is enough!
And there are debunking sites like snopes.com who help you with finding out the idiocies on the internet if your brain can’t do it …
PS:
You’re welcome here as a deterrent example – but not much more!

I_reborn
Guest

@ wolfi7777 … continue your list pls … CNN, MSNBC, NYT, WP and the list goes on and on … of course not for the liberals as these are their adored main stream media regardless what they publish.

I would much more appreciate to be engaged as an equal partner in debating ideas and facts rather than demoted to “deterrent example”. That shows some arrogance don’t you see?

Guest

If you don’t see the difference between RT or breitbart which have been publishing so many stupid lies and NYT e g – then you prove my ideas about you, silly little fascist!
PS:
Among grown ups you shouldn’t use expressions like ” main stream media”.

I_reborn
Guest

@ wolfi7777 …. I am sorry if I used a term that you do not understand. Most people do. But as far as the rest of the argument is concerns I agree with you … that is I do not see the difference because in spite of your expectation I do not watch the mentioned outlets.

However I have seen CNN’s report at the Hungarian/Serbian border that shown children being pepper sprayed…. if you would be open and willing to watch the report together with the same event recorded on the Serbian side of the border parallel with the gate that shown not a single woman or child in 50 meters distance from the HU border …. I would be obliged to include the two links for your convenience.

As far as the labeling is concern I am immune to it so just keep throwing them at me as long and hard as you can.

Member

Ye ‘ re fuckin irritating. Fuck off now, before you get a humble visiting.

LwiiH
Guest

seriously…..

I_reborn
Guest

@ Albrecht Neumerker … now that is a civil debating style 🙁 vulgar and direct threatening. I wonder who and where would pay that humble visitation? I also wonder if Eva will kick you out for this kind of behavior!

LwiiH
Guest

You see, again with baseless comments. CNN, NYT and WP are free press that are neither liberal or right wing. They try to hold public officials accountable for their actions no matter which side of the isle they are on. Right wingers see that as being the liberal press and try to discredit or dismiss it because it rarely fits their narrative. The liberals see it as freedom of the press.
On the other hand, I had a very amusing time listening to Rush Limbaugh try to explain using some primordial understanding or mis-understanding of Economics why minimum wage levels are arbitrary and one could argue for any value. I’m sure that he resinated well with the economically illiterate but for others….. it would have been comical in most other situations.

LwiiH
Guest

I can safely say that it was a rejection of Stephen Harper’s need to control the flow of information, his rejection of, and muzzling of scientests, he shut down studies that ran counter to his agenda and destroyed scientific data, he and his cabients views on immigration along with their xenophobic views started to twist the public discourse into uncomfortable confrontational directions. He regularily ignored supreme court rulings that ran counter to agenda. He tried to change the the balance of power by attempting to restructure the Canadian government in an unlawful way so that he’d have more unchecked powers. Fortunately the checks and balances in the Canadian system worked and he mostly failed. I know many long time conservative voters that held their noses and voted against what this man and his cabinet represented. You want “strong” leadership, you want a dictorship. Harper was a “strong” leader.

Pole
Guest

As we see this blog is pain in the eye for Fidesz. what autocrats hate is to be exposed in their wrongdoings.

Guest

A very interesting report which shows the level of sophistication of the hackers working with/for the Russian government and media like RT:
https://citizenlab.org/2017/05/tainted-leaks-disinformation-phish/
Our German Spiegel reports on this – for those who prefer German:
http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/technik/gefaelschte-leaks-so-funktioniert-digitale-desinformation-kolumne-a-1149322.html

Guest

OT again but important:
The horrible death of those 71 refugees in a Hungarian van happened almost two years ago – the creatures responsible are still waiting for their trial in Hungary …
Of course Hungarian justice has more important things to do like sending people to jail quickly who demonstrate against the government.

I_reborn
Guest

@ wolfi7777 … you are right it was horrible, but who was behind it? To start with the ones induced such a massive stampede … or it is the Hungarians again to be blamed?

Guest

It happened in Hungary under the eyes of the o so watchful police …
But:
Hungarian basic law paragraph 1:
It’s always someone else’s fault!
Paragraph 2:
Should a Hungarian make a mistake – paragraph 1 gets activated automatically …
PS:
My question was – why has there been no trial in almost two years (!) – someone who offends O gets punished by the court and maybe sent to jail immediately – doesn’t take a week even!

I_reborn
Guest

Sorry I did not spend time on researching the issue but please correct me if I am wrong. Did it not happen in Austria? or it was another incident? (This was a question not a joke).
I am afraid neither of us will be able to answer your question, but my suspicion is that a.) the case is very complex thus investigation and proof takes along time, b.) the culprits are not in Hungary therefore it cannot be trialed in a prudent manner, c.) nobody gives a dam about it (I guess this is your choice).

aida
Guest

Neither have I had a chance to research it, but from memory they were returned to Hungary to be tried.
Hungarian Courts are very slow normally to deal with big cases. This has resulted in findings of breaches of the ECHR and in the state being made to pay compensation.
But if they are in Hungary they will be tried, eventually.

Member

Professor Balogh writes: “It is high time to call Fidesz and its propaganda machine what it is: a far-right party that relies on far-right western and domestic sources for at least some of its news.”

That’s exactly what the Atlantic has just done.

Member

Looks like there is a position open for a fact-checker at The Atlantic. If the author cannot get basic facts and numbers correct, who knows whether the rest of her info is accurate?

filemon
Guest

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

The problem is that Fidesz owns or controls most Hungarian language media.

For example every day, week after week, one million people reads the anti-Soros, anti-migrant, anti-EU etc. full page propaganda advertisements in the daily newspapers and the articles with such anti-Soros, anti-opposition etc. slant. By the way these ads also appear in Blikk and Népszava (supposedly opposition leaning but in fact controlled by Fidesz) not just the provincial dailies. And are just the print dailies.

And Fidesz is actively circling the remaining free or more or less independent media. Should Fidesz win the 2018 elections it will own literally everything. Since ÉS or Magyar Narancs, two small liberal print titles may go bankrupt at any time Fidesz may have to keep them alive just to be able to claim that there is press freedom in Hungary.

Havelaar
Guest

Politics.hu is not available anymore. Eva included the link on her blog for good reasons it actually is an independent website. The owners can not explain what happened, but it would not surprise me if the glorious Fidesz regime did figure out a way to block them. Which in my opinion needs to be figured out. Anyone knows more?

Guest

It’s really strange -politics.hu has been active and still is on twitter where they after a long time acknowledged problems – then they were online again, but with the old comment system (not disqus – which crap btw) and then after a day disappeared again, for good – or rather bad …)?
No feedback yet from them – but an interesting graphic on the popularity of Hungarian politicians:
https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=politics.hu&src=typd
Seems that Botka has become more popular than O if I interpret the numbers correctly …

Zsuzsa
Guest
Re: Soros involvement in the 2015 Canadian Election Two things Eva, As a Canadian I was fully embroiled in our last federal election. First of all Harper lost royally – the country still celebrates – on two major issues. Dictatorial governing and bigotry. We are a multicultural country. On Canada Day we go to the nearest park to celebrate our diverse ethnicity. Canadian values include freedom, respect for cultural differences and a commitment to social justice. Over the years Herr Harper’s governing style grew increasingly intolerant and dictatorial. That is not the way Canadians wanted to go. Most of us escaped from dictatorships and we want to live in peace and freedom. We value democracy. The other thing was the face covering fiasco. Harper wanted to ban it. It was a cruel joke to claim you are liberating people from oppression by dictating what they can and cannot wear. Undoubtedly this was his biggest mistake. Which brings me to the Calgary Herald and Alberta being our most redneck province. As important as Alberta may seem, it is just one province; there are nine more plus three territories in Canadian Confederation. So what the Calgary Herald said, like you, I would… Read more »
filemon
Guest

Among Hungarian viewers between age 18-49, during last week TV2’s sickeningly propagandistic newscast was more popular than RTL Klub’s three days in a row (wed-Fri).

TV2 of course being the commercial propaganda TV of Fidesz.

Unfortunately propaganda works and Fidesz has unparalleled reach.

http://munchausenparokaja.tumblr.com/post/161202170676/sorozatban-egym%C3%A1s-ut%C3%A1n-h%C3%A1romszor-m%C3%BAlt-h%C3%A9t-szerd%C3%A1n

petofi
Guest

Propaganda works only on the inane, of which, in Hungary, there are multitudes…

I_reborn
Guest

Thank you Eva for not blocking my access (yet). Could this be just an oversight or possibly the beginning of a truce? Is this a ray of hope that you will allow free and civil debating on the site for everybody?

Please reply accordingly for the benefit of all. Also advise if and when I will be allowed back under my real name and e-mail address to join the lucky group of your followers (as I do not get any notification until I am disguised)

Respectfully,

Guest

Make your own blog. There you can have all the free and civil debate you like. The problem is that you would get no readers because you cannot write anything that anybody wants to read. That is why you turn up as a parasite on this blog.

Member

Fact is, I have never seen Eva block anyone from this blog’s comments section for stating an unpopular opinion. I’ve seen those people get jeered, even insulted, but never blocked. Unpopularity is the curse of the iconoclast. Like it or lump it.

I have seen Eva delete people for bullying, or for printing inflammatory/threatening statements against individuals and groups. Especially when they do so from behind the smug comfort of a pseudonym.

Part of the problem here is, Fidesz has no identifiable ideology. It is simply Orban’s private club. When a Fidesz supporter makes a statement with which the regular commenters on this blog do not agree, the statement is rarely defensible because it usually has no intellectual or moral basis. “It is the will of the people” is not an intellectual argument; “All Muslims are rapists” is facile and false. So the average Fidesz supporter can bring nothing to the table. When he realizes this, the usual fallback position is “lash out like an angry little child.” That’s what gets people banned.

Pole
Guest

Nowadays Hungary and very soon Poland will be “personal autocracy”.

Member

well said!

I_reborn
Guest

@ Jean P … you obviously do not know two things, a.) to be nice, b.) the meaning of the words you use. Therefore you are not amounts the potential debating partner, so you have nothing to worry about.

I_reborn
Guest

amongst … that is

Ferenc
Guest

OT
Currently shown in Muvesz Mozi: “Modern Times” with and by Charlie Chaplin.
Hopefully soon “The Great Dictator” will be screened in the same way…

I_reborn
Guest
@ LwiiH … to your remark posted Today 4:01 pm …… Finally somebody has some thoughts rather than trying to get rid of me. What a fresh breeze! Thank you for your info. Very valuable (I am serious) and worthy to debate it in a civilized way. The nice thing about your comment is that it is true. Factual and nothing to argue over it. To make it even more interesting there is only one comment that needed to be added to it: if these 1st, 2nd and 3rd generation Arab people lived in the Middle East they would not be segregated either culturally or language wise. How is responsible for they not speaking the language of the Land that gave them shelter and a chance to start a new life? Anybody prevented them from learning it? Did the 1956 Hungarians or the following generations segregated themselves in the USA or Canada (ask Eva what language she earned her diplomas). Who is responsible for the ghettos they live in making them a no-go zones? No, I do not want to aid the radicalization but neither you nor I can stop it. Only the fence can do the job. If you… Read more »
Guest

TL-DR,
that’s it from me.

old1956
Guest

Free of dogmas – my axiom is, all groups develop endless dogmas, and all groups destruct themselves.

My suggestion, become active in various groups, learn something positive from them, but try to convince them to discard their unenlightened ideas.

To remain free, is hard work. I do not want lifetime membership in any organizations.

wpDiscuz