What are Soros’s solutions to the refugee crisis? Not what Orbán claims

Most people will be surprised to hear that until now no one bothered to publish a Hungarian translation of George Soros’s article “This is Europe’s Last Chance to Fix Its Refugee Policy,” which appeared in Foreign Policy. This is especially surprising since it was on the basis of this article that the Orbán government declared Soros to be the devil incarnate who wants to abolish nation states, destroy European culture, and inundate Hungary with migrants.

The article was written a year ago, shortly after the Brexit vote and before the rerun of the Austrian presidential election, the Hungarian referendum on refugee policy, and naturally all the national elections in Europe that took place in 2017. Soros looked upon the refugee crisis and Brexit as threats to the very existence of the European Union. He was naturally concerned over the growth of xenophobia and nationalism, with the accompanying rise of far-right parties and ideologies. Under these circumstances, he felt that a “comprehensive policy ought to remain the highest priority for European leaders; the union cannot survive without it.” What followed were his own recommendations for such a comprehensive approach, which would be built on “seven pillars.”

Before he outlined his “seven pillars,” Soros stressed that “the refugee crisis is not a one-off event.” The world must expect high migration pressures in the coming years, and therefore the European Union and other western countries must together work out an orderly and humane immigration policy.

The seven pillars are:

  1. The European Union, like the United States or Canada, should set a limit of legal immigration of 300,000 people a year from countries where most of these refugees and economic migrants are currently. The rest of the world could also take in the same number of people. This would be a high enough number that it would discourage illegal border crossings. Moreover, once this guaranteed quota is in place, those people illegally crossing the border of the European Union would be disqualified from being admitted as legal immigrants.
  2. The European Union must regain control of its borders. The chaos that exists now alienates and scares the public. The remedy is to provide Greece and Italy with sufficient funds to care for the asylum-seekers temporarily.
  3. Funds are necessary for the long-term challenges connected to the refugee crisis, which at the moment are not available. In 2014 the member states and the European Parliament reduced and capped the EU budget at 1.23 percent of the sum of its members’ GDP, which is simply inadequate. Soros thinks that 30 billion euros a year will be needed to carry out a comprehensive asylum plan, which is a lot of money but still less than the political, human, and economic cost of a protracted crisis. How should the EU get the money? “By raising a substantial amount of debt backed by the EU’s relatively small budget.” The EU has a low amount of debt, and “it should therefore leverage this budget like all sovereign governments in the world do.”
  4. The EU must build common mechanisms for protecting borders, determining asylum claims, and relocating refugees.
  5. Soros is against the stillborn resettlement and relocation programs. “The union cannot coerce either member states or refugees to participate in these programs. They must be voluntary.” He suggests a program based on public-private initiatives in which small groups of individuals, community organizations, and companies support the integration of the newcomers. He brings up the example of Canada, which in four months admitted 25,000 Syrian refugees before the summer of 2016 and promised to settle 10,000 more by the end of the year. That number for Canada would be the equivalent of the EU allowing the settlement of 4.5 million immigrants annually.
  6. The European Union and the international community in general should be much more generous in their support of the refugee-hosting countries and African nations which at the moment receive financial aid only in exchange for migration control.
  7. Soros shares the general view that, given the EU’s aging population, it “must eventually create an environment in which economic migration is welcome.” Merkel’s generous act “was not well thought through” because such great numbers couldn’t be properly handled. Nonetheless, in his opinion “the benefits brought by migration far outweigh the costs of integrating immigrants.”

Soros is convinced that “pursuing these seven principles is essential in order to calm public fears, reduce chaotic flows of asylum seekers, ensure that newcomers are fully integrated, establish mutually beneficial relations with countries in the Middle East and Africa, and meet Europe’s international humanitarian obligations.”

©AP / Anja Niedringhaus

It is this article that is the basis of the Orbán government’s accusations against George Soros as the evil manipulator who wants to flood Europe with millions of non-European, non-Christian people, as a result of which Europe would lose its character. But as we can see, Soros agrees with Viktor Orbán on many issues. He thinks that the compulsory settlement of refugees is outright wrong. It is unfair to the local population as well as to the refugees. He also puts a great deal of emphasis on the effective defense of the European Union’s borders, just like Orbán. He, like Orbán, also wants to give more money to countries outside of Europe which are the first stations in the migrants’ journey to Europe.

Viktor Orbán may agree with many of George Soros’s ideas, but when it comes to the immigration of non-Europeans to the continent the Hungarian prime minister is adamant. He refuses to acknowledge the continuing migration pressures that force the EU to find solutions. Orbán’s answer of total exclusion is unrealistic. There is no way of preventing millions of people from entering the territory of the European Union.  For one country to erect a fence is a useless exercise. His boasting about his own fence on the Serbian-Hungarian border, which allegedly defends the whole of Europe from millions of illegal immigrants, is outright ridiculous. The only thing he managed to achieve with the fence was to prevent the asylum-seekers and economic migrants from traveling through Hungary toward their final destination.

Orbán also disagrees with Soros on the beneficial effects of immigration. First of all, he believes that current demographic trends can be solved from within, which, as the trends over the last 30-40 years show, is simply not true. No matter what the Orbán government does to promote higher birthrates, a serious turnabout is most unlikely. But for economic growth you need a robust internal market and a vibrant work force. In Hungary not only is the birthrate very low, but emigration is high. According to the latest statistics, every seventh Hungarian child is born abroad.

What is disgusting about the anti-Soros campaign, in addition to its anti-Semitic undertones, is that the government propaganda accuses Soros of things he doesn’t advocate. Most important, he doesn’t support the forcible settlement of refugees in Hungary against the will of the people, as the Orbán government claims. Thus, the whole anti-Soros campaign rests on a lie.

It is high time for Hungarians to read the complete text of Soros’s article which was published in HVG shortly after its publication. I just hope that people will take the time to read it. If they do, they will realize that the Orbán government concocted a whopper of a lie about Soros’s designs on Hungary.

July 9, 2017
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gdfxx
Guest

The basic problem – in my opinion – with Soros’ seven pillars is that when human conditions (caused by wars, internal conflicts, famines, droughts and/or intolerable living conditions) force migration, those who migrate will not care about them. So his statement that “pursuing these seven principles is essential in order to calm public fears, reduce chaotic flows of asylum seekers, ensure that newcomers are fully integrated, establish mutually beneficial relations with countries in the Middle East and Africa, and meet Europe’s international humanitarian obligations” is just wishful thinking.

exTor
Guest

Sounds like you’re demonizing refugees, gdfxx. According to you, refugees “will not care about” “human conditions”, such as “wars, internal conflicts, droughts”, etcetera. Then you conclude with your point that Soros’s “statement … is just wishful thinking”.

There’s a germ of a good thought here, gdfxx, however your logic (if ever even present) deserted you. First off, you start with palpable nonsense. What does it mean to say that refugees will not care about “human conditions”? How does that presumed reality relate to Europe?

And just what is it that is “wishful thinking”? The points made by George Soros? The potential viability in Europe of the Soros points. The likelihood that the points will be accepted by the members of the European Union?

Your point and your conclusion are unclear, gdfxx. Instead of being in a hurry to be the first responder to a new article –you posted one minute before midnight Central Europe Time– you would have been better put to have better thought through what it was that you were trying to say.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Rob
Guest

whatever the news, i turn to your articles and release from daily struggles and enjoy myself.. so thank you. On another tip though, and youve must have realized for yourself, is that…. there can never be enough. These fucking leeches suck you dry. And the more you tell them enough, or that your tired, the harder they pull, into an attempt to suck your soul, literally out of your body. Which, brings me back to the start.. Thanks for contributing here. A genuine heart felt thank u!

Member

WTF was that all about?

exTor
Guest

Obviously a trollish mindset occupies Rob’s nether regions. Or maybe not. Given that Rob is not a familiar entity in this forum, he may just be waxing weird. It behooves him to explain this, else the worst will be presumed.

MAGYARKOZÓ

wrfree
Guest

From the series still going strong in reruns.. ‘The Twilight Zone’..for the blog’s edification

‘You’re traveling through another dimension, a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land whose boundaries are that of imagination. That’s the signpost up ahead – your next stop, the Twilight Zone!’

Perhaps we are in one as this dialogue center gets visitors arguably from other solar systems. Is there some sort of homing beacon? Truly at this point we can only use our imagination as to where the country we discuss is heading. Rather the trolls then it would be better to have those who may have opposing views as they ‘serve’ the country. But again this could possibly exist only in the ‘imagination’ where dialogue is concerned since it appears only a top-down one exists.

tappanch
Guest

Incredible, but true.

“On Netanyahu’s Orders: Israel’s Foreign Ministry Retracts Criticism of anti-Semitism in Hungary and Strongly Attacks Soros ”

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.800437

Yes I know, Soros supports the naive and less naive peaceniks in Israel.
(He gave $9.5 million to them between 2001 and 2015)
The same way, he is somewhat naive about the refugee/migrant issue in Europe.

But: is Israel in such a dire need for friends that the PM supports a Nazi-loving dictator like Orban ?

I read it somewhere. Netanyahu talks like Churchill, but acts like Chamberlain.

Gardonista
Guest

To continue our discussion from July 6, Orban and Netanyahu are both united in their fear of liberal ideas.

Ovidiu
Guest

Soros is a genuine liberal and there isn’t, and there hasn’t ever been, anything secret about his worldview and political commitments. Therefore, it is understandable that Soros has eventually ended in conflict with the present leadership of Israel since Netanyahu&friends are a right-wing, nationalistic, leadership which is more in tune with Orban’s post-liberal vision than with that of Soros.
Netanyahu is not an accident, it is the present point of a trend in Israeli politics which won’t change anytime soon. Israel has started moving to the right and has become ever more religious and nationalistic since early 2000s.

Uborkaszezon
Guest

@tappanch

Marton Bede at 444.hu years ago wrote about the Netanyahu-Orban platonic love. They are really kindred souls like it or not. It’s already a kind of surprize that there isn’t closer relationship between the two. My guess is that Orban’s voter base wouldn’t like it, but otherwise they are very much alike.

Member

No peace with Netanyahu ever. That was obvious already in his first term a while ago.

On a recent visit of the german foreign minister Gabriel to Israel, Gabriel dared to meet with an NGO, that publishes reports of israeli soldiers about the conditions and the many vicious things in the fights against the palestenians.

Netanyahu threatened to cancel the meeting with Gabriel, that was planned for the next day, ifGabriel would meet these NGOs.

Gabriel did it anyway and Netanyahu canceled, because Gabriel met with enemies of Israel.
Sounds familiar ?!

tappanch
Guest

There is a significant difference between the partly Soros-funded NGOs in Hungary and in Israel.

In Hungary, these NGOs try to discover and write about the truth.

In Israel, some of these NGO were caught trying to sell lies as truth, repeatedly. This makes a huge difference!

[My explanation: different type of people join such NGOs in Hungary and in Israel]

The aim of the “Breaking the Silence” group is to defame the Israeli Army by accusing it of war crimes. Their specific allegations were proven to be lies. In spite of this, minister Gabriel made a point meeting them on April 25.

AlexN
Guest

How were BtS’ allegations proven as lies? Be specific.

Member

I read, that the soldiers reports are hard to prove, but not about lies.

AlexN
Guest

Exactly my point. tappanch is trying to defame BtS for shining the light on Israel’s disgraceful treatment of anyone that disagrees with its right wing policy. Bravo to Gabriel for meeting with BtS to hear an opposing viewpoint.

AlexN
Guest

. So tappanch, how exactly were BtS’ allegations proven as lies? Let’s hear your pro apartheid/ Netanyahu talking points. Or do you need more time?

Nagy, Dénes Lajos
Guest

Dear Éva,

the Hungarian translation of Soros’s paper was published in HVG on 26 June 2016: http://hvg.hu/gazdasag/20160726_Soros_Gyorgy_Europa_menekultvalsag_elemzes?s=hk

With best wishes, Dénes

Andrew
Guest

Missing from the Soros refugee manifesto for Europe is the need for Muslim countries(especially those in the region) to take a large part in settling genuine refugees. They must also be persuaded to provide temporary staging & processing centres, medical support and much else. It is not up to Europe to do it all by herself.

Member

They already do, the countries you call muslim countries.
Tutkey, Libanon, …
They take many many more refugees than Europe.
Some european countries don’t even take a single refugee.

tappanch
Guest
Vogel
Guest
Useful post but remember that facts cannot counter feelings. Once it’s established (through repetition) that “a rich Jew is having fun in order to destroy the homeland of righteous Hungarians” no fact can change anybody’s mind. Readers of HVG (all 30 thousand of them out of over 8m voters) are anyway predisposed to be critical of Orban’s narrative so it doesn’t really help. Reaching average, undecided voters would be key (not that average voters take efforts to read an article) but they cannot be reached because Orban owns the media that has access to them. The problem with the migrant issue is that people cannot really get personal experiences (unless they somehow meet the thousands of migrants at Keleti station like in 2015). The government propaganda can repeat that the economy is growing etc. but people know in Békéscsaba or Balassagyarmat that life sucks. On the other hand, people know about refugees and migrants only what they hear from the media over 90% of which is owned by Orban’s friends and the state. As a result what people hear day after day from their fee Lokál or Kossuth Rádió or TV2 becomes the truth. The situation – even if the… Read more »
Member

One day the stupid average people, as you call them always under different names, will understand and uprise like in 1956 and there will be no Russian tanks, that will stop them, komischer Vogel.

Guest

Sometimes I really get frustrated by people’s ignorance and stupidity and …
Of course this is not only a Hungarian problem!
Just two examples from Europe:
When the Swiss had to decide whether to accept immigrants some years ago the proportion of no-sayers was highest in the Alpine villages – which might never have seen an immigrant in their life at all. So how come they were sure that immigrants were “bad”?
And the Christian Socialists in Bavaria under their right wing leader Seehofer always whine about foreigners – when their part of Germany really profits the most from foreign tourists!

wrfree
Guest

“All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake up in the day to find it was vanity, but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.” T E Lawrence

Soro’s title of his piece seems to echo the famous book of T E Lawrence….’The Seven Pillars of Wisdom’. Perhaps he knew what he was in for as he too is a ‘dreamer’ with a set of plans. And as we can see considering the vitriol directed against him a ‘dangerous’ one.

Tyrker
Guest

You wrote:

“He brings up the example of Canada, which in four months admitted 25,000 Syrian refugees before the summer of 2016 and promised to settle 10,000 more by the end of the year. That number for Canada would be the equivalent of the EU allowing the settlement of 4.5 million immigrants annually.”

That’s not correct. Canada’s total area is 9,984,670 square kilometres, while that of the EU is just 4,324,782 (and the latter figure probably includes the overseas territories of certain Member States like France). Furthermore, the average population density of the European Union (114 people per square kilometre) is much higher than that of Canada (3). In simpler terms, the EU is smaller and much more crowded to start with, whereas Canada is huge and almost “empty”. If anything, Canada ought to welcome several orders of magnitude *more* migrants than the EU – not the other way round. (Yeah, I know. The climate is generally harsher in Canada, particularly in the arctic areas. But still.)

Guest

Crazy as ever, our Tyrker troll!

Comparing the landmass – really ingenious …

Tyrker, you should also use the landmass comparison to calculate the number of refugees that Hungary could take – but wait, as soon as Hungary is involved everything changes of course …

Istvan
Guest
I read George Soros’s article “This is Europe’s Last Chance to Fix Its Refugee Policy” in Foreign Policy magazine a while ago. I disagree with him about the utility of additional admission of immigrants to both the EU nations and the USA due to demographic issues relating to birth rates. There is limited need for the additional labor in these societies due to technological advances including robotics. What the economic migration migration does is create a pool of lower cost labor that is actually slowing the rapid advancement of automation. In Chicago we have for example several McDonald’s with self-order kiosks, mobile pay options, an updated interior design, even table service. And it’s just a matter of time before those humans providing table service will be replaced by machines as well. The driver of this shift here in Chicago is the passage of a $15 per hour minimum wage which has a very good intent of providing some type of a living wage for these fast food workers. Here’s the math that McDonald”s used, a US worker being paid $15 an hour costs his employer $38,500 a year, including unemployment insurance and the employer’s part of Social Security (assuming no… Read more »
eueu
Guest

OT but interesting about the EU. It proposes a purpose which is actually in line with EU’s DNA which is solely about capitalism (and not freedom/democracy/transparency etc).

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/fintan-o-toole-eu-is-still-at-risk-of-slow-self-destruction-1.3144284

aida
Guest
The EU is, like any institution of its size and purpose must constantly face forces determined on its destruction. The first group of its enemies are domestic politicians whose power to decide their citizens’ lives is undermined by the EU’s very existence. The ability of the same politician to build corrupt empires is limited in some countries by EU rules. Hungary is no one such. The ideological commitment engendered by the modern orthodoxy that anything elected is holy and requires no further justification because it is the very fruition of democracy. By the same token, any institution apparently lacking such accolade should be on the brink of extinction. An example is the judiciary. Inevitably it is not elected and the acceptance of its decisions and authority is rooted in its disrance from the contentious political issues. As the article points out the EU cannot gain strength from nationalism because of its overarching nature. It cannot convincingly speak to the citizens for the need to stop the emergence of fascism or other extreme ideologies. That message is lost on the way to the citizens because most have not experienced it and anyway quite a few of them might welcome it. Brexit… Read more »
Member

I have just read about the beginning of the Brexit negotiations.
I have the feeling, that the EU-side exactly knows what they want and what they can demand.
Th UK seems rather helpless and chaotic.

EU has got the upper hand
UK has much to loose.

aida
Guest

Thank you for this.

To me the whole Brexit shit is like a bad dream. One of my English friends, a Jew, lost weight because he just could not eat with the stress. It is certainly worrying, quite apart from the obvious. A nation that can embrace the primitive instincts inspired by pro Brexit propaganda can descend to even more worrisome depths.
But the more worrying is that the politicians did not immediately unite to say this was all a mistake based on a failure to understand by the voters.

Please may god save us and Europe from this pending catastrophe?

Member
One can agree more or less with Soros’ ‘pillars’ concerning refugees. It is to honor, that he is engaged for Europe and peace in the world. What becomes clear is, that there are multiple measures to be taken, to handle the refugee crisis. I disagree with his opinion, that “The union cannot coerce either member states or refugees to participate in relocation and settlement programs”. Let’s take Hungary: 1. The refugees are already forced to arrive in Italy or in Greece. Neither the refugees nor Italy or Greece can choose. So why not share the burdon ? 2. 1300 refugees is actually nothing. This would be 1 refugee every 7 villages, or e.g. 2 refugees in a 15.000 people town like Tapolca. 1300 refugees are just enough for the Hungarian government to show its good will and its solidarity with Greece and Italy. 3. Also in german papers I often read the opinion not to force xenophobic countries to take refugees. This opinion only justifies two years of hate campaigns and lies against refugees, because before, the Hungarians had not so much fear and Xenophobia. In spring of 2015, when already many refugees crossed the hungarian border, there were polls,… Read more »
tappanch
Guest

In the role of Mikhail Suslov : Maria Schmidt

“Soros is one of the most determined engine of the brave new, Muslimized world”

“Groups representing the speculative global capital push forward the 87-year old Soros.”

http://latoszogblog.hu/blog/utelagazasnal_europa_2017

tappanch
Guest

Sorry for my grammatical errors.

I think M.S.’s article is finally a piece that is worth analyzing and criticizing.

Guest

Are you sure?
Of course since it’s in Hungarian I didn’t/couldn’t read it – just looking at the leading words “Intellectual terrorism” and later “Communism” were enough for me …
That woman is totally out of control – like the Lesbian (with a Swiss wife and several children …) who leads a local group of the German AfD.

Luigi
Guest

Get this tappanch, Bibi is attacking Soros upping the ante – so Orban can’t possibly be an antisemite, right?

“Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony” – The Matrix, 1999

https://444.hu/2017/07/10/izrael-minden-eddiginel-szigorubb-civiltorvenyt-tervez-sorosrol-szol-majd-az-egesz

tappanch
Guest

According to a new decision of the Kuria, employers, police, secret services can put cameras even in bathrooms at work or public places.

https://444.hu/2017/07/10/hogy-ne-legyen-gond-a-kozmedia-vezetoinek-lehallgatasabol-a-legfobb-ugyeszseg-felulvizsgaltatta-egy-zala-megyei-kft-noi-vecejenek-bekamerazasat

Luigi
Guest

Bibi to cut funding of UNESCO citing anti-semitism, while he’s claiming the out of control “the scheming Jew” anti-Soros campaign of Hungary isn’t anti-semitism.

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.800152

Zoli
Guest

Problem with Soros is that he continues to push for mass-colonization of Europe. Europe is home to dozens of distinct cultures. Proposing the colonization of the continent, often through enforcement, such as EU quotas is a crime, even if he proposes “only” 300,000 per year. When such a quota is imposed, it becomes cultural genocide. Same as is the case in Tibet, or was the case in Transylvania, where 1 million ethnic Romanians were settled in order to dilute the minority populations within communities, in order to facilitate assimilation (A crime which Eva denied in the past, given how “pro-Hungarian” she is). Natives have rights too, not just the migrants of this world.

BTW, Israel just rebuffed its own ambassador who criticized the posters.

aida
Guest

Please produce the evidence for your initial proposition.

Guest

Zoli, you’re kind of funny – “mass-colonization of Europe” sounds really good, who told you that?
1300 colonists (that’s the number the EU is asking for) to Hungary, of course that would destruct “Hungarian culture” obviously …
Re Transylvania:
Remember – Hungarians were a minority in Greater Hungary in 1914 …
So who were the Natives then?

tappanch
Guest

Soros does not have divisions, he does not rule a country. He is as convenient a target as the “powerful”, but in reality powerless “Jews” were between 1933 and 1945.

During the 2015-2016 influx, Orban’s loving friend Erdogan was the sender, and Ms Merkel was the recipient of the Muslim refugees and/or migrants.

tappanch
Guest

I am still waiting for the anti-Erdogan billboards, Mr Orban !!

tappanch
Guest

Soros’s role in the 2015 migrant crisis is about at the same level as Pope Francis’s – negligible. Treat the refugees nicely.

What about anti-Pope billboards, Mr Orban, to prove that you are not a “flaming” anti-Semite ?

Zoli
Guest

Soros’s role is at a much higher level tappanch.

” the refugee crisis means “new opportunities” for Soros’ organization to influence immigration policies on a global scale.”
http://dailycaller.com/2016/08/15/leaked-soros-memo-refugee-crisis-new-normal-gives-new-opportunities-for-global-influence/

“In November 2016, a number of NGO’s were revealed by independent European news source GEFIRA to be smuggling migrants from the northern coast of Africa across the Mediterranean into the EU using a ramshackle fleet of ships. Research by Disobedient Media shows that a number of the organizations sponsoring ships in the armada are funded in part by Hillary Clinton donors and organizations run by billionaire George Soros.”
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-09/ngo-fleet-bussing-migrants-eu-has-ties-george-soros-hillary-clinton-donors

Does the Pope get involved in smuggling migrants into Europe?

Guest

I had to laugh when I saw your sources, Zoli!
You proved once and for all that you’re just an idiotic troll by giving these extreme right (should I say fascist?) conspiracy sites (zerohedge is a perfect example …) as sources!

I wouldn’t believe anything they report on, absolutely lunatic!

exTor
Guest

I dont see what the biggie is here, wolfi7777. Zoli’s two links are just rightwing websites. So what. Not every website is going to be leftwing.

Orbán Hitler is fascistic, without a doubt, his antiSoros campaign firmly embedding OH in the fascist camp, though Zoli may not (yet) be a fascist.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Guest

Please, exTor!
Have you ever looked at zerohedge – it’s not a “news site”, it promotes conspirations and alternative news.
To quote this as a source says everything about the author.

exTor
Guest

Okay, I’ll take your word for it, wolfi7777. I had never heard of the websites before and had only given them quick looksees. Didn’t notice anything untoward except that they are rightwing.

Most websites are not news sites, but opinion sites, which is fine. It’s easy enough to get a feel for a site once there. There’s no point in reading most sites, however some of the rightwing stuff can be rather literate.

Thanx for the tipoff.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Member

So Hungary is lucky.
Hungary has no culture that can be killed and they are dying out and fleeing their country.
So let them poor refugees have the catparthian basin.
Be genorous old Zoli, generosity shows your real greatness.

Zoli
Guest

“Hungary has no culture that can be killed”. That is what is called, anti-Hungarian, hate-filled bigotry. Eva’s main fan base.

Member

Culture and spirit has been killed by Orban and gang.

Hungaries culture under Orban:
Hate, stupidity, Trianon whining, hate, bad football, robbery, hate, …

What culture are you proud of, zoli?

exTor
Guest

Éva may be somewhat overreactive to you, however you didn’t help your case, at least in Éva’s eyes, by tying “antiHungarian hate-filled bigotry” to the Hungarian Spectrum “main fanbase”.

You fancy yourself to be a smart dude, Zoli, however you (with your smartness) did not catch the major irony of your comment.

Your manner of criticism of the constituency of Hungarian Spectrum puts you on the other side of that constituency, which is effectively antiOrbán. That makes you proOrbán, a hater of major proportions, given (amongst other things) his just commenced antiSoros campaign.

So Zoli, the man who in effect defends that bigot Orbán Hitler, thus making himself a bigot in the process, dares to categorize HS as “hate-filled”.

How stupid are you, Zoli? No wonder Éva’s pissed-off. As for Winston, the presumed target of your intemperate comment, he was just joking. Magyar culture, from my (Csepel) vantage point, is mostly okay, but it can looze its pervasive antiJewishness and antiRomaness. In other words, it could looze people like I presume you to be, Zoli. How’s that for a turnaround?

You can also learn to write better.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Member

Thank you, exTor, of course I was exaggerating, of course I love Hungary. That’s why I get angry about these Orban Hitler Zoli sort. Since we moved here 2 years ago I was never regretting it.

Concerning culture: Traditions don’t last for ever. Sometimes it”s sad, when globalization and the free markets take away things we got used to and local specialities blur in favour of global standards.

But we have to face it. There is no way back to the 1930ies. Most important to live together in peace.

Guest

And the same goes for me – would I have bought a house here (ok, it was cheap – especially the restaurants around here …) and even taken a Hungarian wife (we were both over 60 when we were introduced to each other – “you’re a perfect fit!”)?

And my wife is as angry as me about what’s going on in Orbanistan – and she knows many more swearwords than I do!

exTor
Guest

Culture is not static, as you said, Winston. Hungarianness is the Magyar component of the European meld, a morph from what existed decades ago.

Every country’s uniquenesses and differences signify an ethnicity. People absorbed into a country absorb that country’s culture, a natural occurrence. Hometown haters [eg: UKIP in the UK, National [Marine Le Pen] Front in France, Fidesz and Jobbik in Hungary] deny that incomers adapt. Those haters say that newcomers want to change the countries to which they would like to move. That is a lie and that is an impossibility.

A big part of Magyar culture is the Romas. How many tourists go to Budapest restaurants that feature Gypsy musicians? Lots. The Romani have been absorbed, as have others. Different newcomers will, in their turn, also be absorbed and Hungary will not change negatively for it. It will improve.

This is my day for prolixity.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Janet Kerekes
Guest

I would just like to point out that whoever authored the Seven Pillars and made the comparison between the admission of 25,000, followed by 10,000 more Syrian refugees to Canada in 2016, for a total of 35,000 – and then proceeded to state that the EU proportionately should allow 4.5 million immigrants, is guilty of very slipshod arithmetical calculations. The comparative figure, if we estimate the population of the EU to be 350,000,000, would be 350,000 immigrants annually, as Canada accepted .01% of its current population (35,000,000 +) as immigrants in 2016.

Member

Nick “Fidesz” Thorpe of the Beeb has let the summer heat get to his head and gone rogue:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40554844

Government “spokesmen” will be going over the soon-to-be published “corrections” with the bold Nick over an exquisite dejeuner in Nobu as we speak….

exTor
Guest

Many had labeled Nick Thorpe as a Fidesz suckhole, however the few times that I did read him, I never noticed anything overtly proFidesz. His wife is Hungarian, I believe, and she may have pulled him a certain way.

Whatever Nick Thorpe’s earlier orientation, it’s clear that Orbán Hitler’s current atrocity has left a bad taste in Nicky’s mouth, which may (yet) be ‘sanitized’ (as you suggest) over dindin at Nobu, D7Democrat.

MAGYARKOZÓ

aida
Guest

British Diplomats and BBC correspondents are servants of the British state. Do not expect anything from Thorpe other than that he will do his job. What he is expected to do you must ask his bosses. Spend no time reading him any more than listening to Mrs May. He is a servant, she is worthless.

What happens in Hungary? Read Eva

Member

You should check out his material pre the refugee crisis- it could have been written from the Fidesz HQ. He goes back a long way with Orban et al, right to the change of the system and coupled with his wife`s background this led to a far too generous interpretation of, for example the Media Law. I think post the refugee crisis and the human rights abuses suffered by these unfortunates at the hands of the fascist regime, Nick has either had an attack of the conscience or, more likely, the flood of complaints which accompanied his every pro-Fidesz article has “persuaded” him of the error of his ways.

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