Hungarian politicians and Migration Aid’s “migrant resorts”

By now, I’m sure, many readers of Hungarian Spectrum who regularly follow the English- or Hungarian-language news from Hungary have heard the story of those refugee families who were offered the opportunity to spend a few days in a village at the edge of Kis-Balaton, a huge wetland habitat. As is clear from the name, the place is only a few kilometers from Lake Balaton. An Austrian benefactor offered three cabins to Migration Aid International, an Open Society Foundation-supported organization that is helping both the refugees who are still being kept in transit zones along the Serbian-Hungarian border and those who have been released and have been granted asylum and are currently under the “protection” (oltalom) of the Hungarian state. In the rest of this post you will see what this “protection” means in the current harsh reality of the Orbán regime.

Cutting to the chase: a Fidesz member of parliament, three mayors in the vicinity of those three cabins, and some of the less than charitable and enlightened inhabitants of the three towns swore that no refugee can have a vacation near them. They don’t care about these people’s legal status. They don’t want them nearby. In fact, as one of the mayors said, they don’t want them anywhere in Hungary.

Source: abcug.hu / Photo: András Hajdú

Many articles have been written on the subject in Hungarian, and yesterday The Budapest Beacon published a detailed summary of what happened in Keszthely, Hévíz, and Zalavár, three towns located in one of the busiest tourist areas of Hungary. Since the disgraceful story can be read elsewhere, I will approach the topic from a different angle. I wanted to discover its genesis.

It looks as if the journalists of Magyar Idők regularly check Migration Aid’s Facebook page. There they learned, most likely on August 2, that the organization’s activists were planning to spend the weekend getting the three cabins ready to receive the first three families. The journalist who got the job of inciting public opinion against Migration Aid and its plans was Áron Nagy, who subsequently wrote five articles on the unacceptability of allowing “migrants” to vacation anywhere near Lake Balaton.

The very first article was, most likely purposely, misleading. According to Nagy, “Migration Aid International in the outskirts of [Keszthely] is planning to give temporary accommodations to asylum seekers let out of the transit zones.” Migration Aid’s Facebook page was very specific about the status of the refugees. They were not asylum seekers. They already received asylum in Hungary. Migration Aid was equally clear about using the cabins for the purpose of providing short vacations for people in desperate need of some normalcy. The total news value of this article was the sentence I just quoted. The rest of the 450-word article was filler that besmirched the reputation of Migration Aid and made sure everybody knows it is connected to George Soros’s foundation.

The news spread quickly and naturally reached the local internet news site, Zalai Hírlap Online (zaol.hu), which got in touch with András Siewert, the operative coordinator of Migration Aid. Zaol.hu’s handling of the story was a great deal more professional than Magyar Idők‘sThey went to Migration Aid’s Facebook page and accurately quoted the description of the organizations’ plans for the cabins. Siewert explained that these people want to stay in Hungary and the organization is trying to acquaint them with Hungary’s history and culture. Zaol.hu asked whether Migration Aid was concerned about any negative local reaction, to which Siewert’s answer was that since the neighbors are mostly Austrians and Germans they don’t anticipate any trouble. What a sad commentary on the state of mind of Hungarians after two years of hate mongering.

By that time it became known that the three cabins are situated in the outskirts of Zalavár, a village of 1,000 inhabitants. Ildikó Horváth, the mayor of the village, learned about the refugees from Magyar Idők but found out only from zaol.hu that the three cabins are situated in Zalavár. Her reaction was swift: “As soon as this information reached me I took the necessary steps,” which “will serve the interests of the villagers.” What the mayor of Keszthely, a city 13 km. away, had to do with three cabins in Zalavár is hard to fathom. But it was clear from the zaol.hu article that by that time the mayors of the whole region had been in touch with one another, and they swore that they would use “all legal means” to prevent the families from vacationing anywhere nearby. Jenő Manninger, the Fidesz member of parliament representing the district, admitted that the visit of these families doesn’t mean permanent settlement, but this scheme of Migration Aid is dangerous nonetheless because it is part of the “Soros plan.” He added that “the authorities are already investigating the legal possibilities of preventing the organization of such camping holidays.”

In the next few days Magyar Idők did its very best to further incite public opinion against the migrants and their “vacationing.” Áron Nagy got in touch with Ferenc Ruzsics, the mayor of Keszthely, who said that these people have no place anywhere in the country. He accused Migration Aid of being underhanded, although we know that the organization announced its plans on Facebook. Magyar Idők also got in touch with Manninger, who announced that “in no way can the migrants settle, even if at the moment their camping is legally possible.” Quite a claim by a legislator who ought to know that these people have the legal right to settle wherever their hearts desire in the territory of Hungary.

Two days later Áron Nagy was at it again. In his article dated August 5 he complained that Migration Aid persists on going through with the original plan despite the outcry of the locals. In order to fill space, he went on and on about the exact location of the three cabins and tried to find contradictions in different journalistic accounts of the events. The whole article was a pitiful attempt at blackening the name of Migration Aid.

On the same day Áron Nagy also published an opinion piece titled “Migránssimogató” (Migrant Stroking), in which he proudly took credit for “exposing” Migration Aid. As a result of his first article, “those Hungarians who are considered by Brussels to be retarded folks disposed to fascist ideas cried out from Zalavár to Keszthely: not one of them here.”

And if that weren’t enough, Áron Nagy with a colleague, Kriszta Gidró, wrote another article on August 7 in which the duo repeated all their objections to Migration Aid as well as to “migrant resorts” anywhere in Hungary. They were especially infuriated by András Siewert’s insistence that migrants can live wherever they want and that in the future Migration Aid will continue to organize vacations for those who have already been granted asylum. Siewert also said that they have no obligation to ask permission to organize such outings. The journalists found it upsetting that “Migration Aid will continue to pursue its refugee advocacy actions.”

This story, I believe, is a good example of the way the Hungarian population is being indoctrinated, with the assistance of the government media in the service of Viktor Orbán’s policies. It is a shameful story of manipulation and duplicity.

August 9, 2017
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Member

“This story, I believe, is a good example of the way the Hungarian population is being indoctrinated, with the assistance of the government media in the service of Viktor Orbán’s policies. It is a shameful story of manipulation and duplicity.”

The majority of the Hungarian population does not require indoctrination. They are cut from the same cloth as Orban, Szijjarto, Balog and friends. The good people of Hungary, of which there are many, should organize an international boycott of domestic tourist destinations. These people are exhibiting attitudes that smack of Alabama in the mid-20th century.

petofi
Guest

“The good people of Hungary, of which there are many…”

Yes, their ratio has risen since 1944 when the ancestors of these ‘good people’ happily sent 500,000 jews to Auschwitz, to be able to rob their homes and businesses.
Yup. Nice folks all.

wrfree
Guest

I think Aron’s yellow journalism punctured with egoism elevates him to the apex with the rest of the journalist- propagandists honing their trade over all the people.

Aron in his ‘storied propaganda’ puts a twist on the arrogant Seinfeldian ‘Soup Nazi’ who on whim refused to sell soup to those who were deemed not ‘worthy’ as he looks the ‘Vakacio Nazi’. ‘No vakacio for YOU! He by himself was going to stop them all come hell or high water. Mercenary work by a mercenary. He’ll be looking for a promotion as he thinks he’s changed the world. The crass egoism is stunning and sad.

Member

I don’t think, that Arons motivation is egoism:
There might be some journalists, working for propaganda media, who feel ashamed and just don’t want to loose their jobs.
Others don’t care, are egoistic and play the game.
But this Aron one seems to be a convicted asshole.

Birthright
Guest

I try to understand your comment but have difficulties with the principal of it. Are you saying that in order to disapprove the government’ migrant policy the “good people” should destroy their own economy? Just from this I can safely bet that you live somewhere in a higher income country and have no idea what you are talking about.

Reality Check
Guest

If this makes you angry, then support the work of people helping refugees.

You can make a donation to Migration Aid here: http://migrationaid.org/en/do-you-want-to-help/

Birthright
Guest

I like it. Put your money where your mouth is, Great idea.

Furthermore open your houses to needy families by undertaking to sponsor them for 5 years, feed them teach them to speak our language, introduce them to the Hungarian and European culture, make them understand the law of the land, bring them up to par with equal rights for women, Jews and other religions and LGBTQ people, get jobs for them, take them shopping for modern attires especially for the female members of the family.

Did you get the idea? Do not preach, act upon your belief. Deeds speak louder than words.

tappanch
Guest

Fulfillment, as of July 31, 2017, of the September 2015 allocation quotas to relocate 98,255 refugees from Greece and Italy :

0%: Austria (1953), Poland (6182), Hungary (1294)
0.4%: Czechia (12 out of 2691)
2%: Slovakia (16 out of 902)
4%: Bulgaria (50 out of 1302)

12%: Spain
21%: France
26%: Germany
29%: Sweden

https://data2.unhcr.org/en/documents/download/58668

Birthright
Guest

Thank you for this informative post. When will the EU politicians and the foreign players get that the PEOPLE do not want the migrants in their neighborhood?

This question also apply to the commenters here as it seems to me that many of them wishes to see Hungary being forced to submit to the EU distribution system. It is funny that the same people curse Orban, Putin, Artisan, etc. for being dictators but happily cheer for the idiot is Brussels.

I am sorry to say what is likely unpopular here, but I do not want you to invite guests into my house. If Merkel invited them she should house them, feed them, pamper them and raise their families at the expense of the working German population, rather than pushing them over to the neighboring countries.

Why is it so difficult to understand that we want to be in control of our life, security, culture, racial make up, religion, law, economical well being and we will not submit ourselves to foreign pressure.

Accept it and live with it, and if you cannot than move onto some other countries and issues and leave Hungary for the Hungarians. Simple as that.

Birthright
Guest

I meant Erdogan … it was my wordprocessor … sorry about it

Ferenc
Guest

Well that’s one slip of the….. whatever, something, you recognised yourself, BUT

“the idiot is Brussels” ???
Don’t understand, you mean “Manneken Pis”, or so???
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manneken_Pis

“racial make up” ???
Do you have a new kind of “arcfestés”, or so ???
Hopefully it’s not contents racial or any other kind of discrimination (forbidden by the Fundamental Law…)

PS: do you believe in re-incarnation? then you’ll have to believe to have re-birthright also!! but what if you’ll not be born Hungarian again…

Birthright
Guest

No my Friend, I do not believe in re-birth, and I hope that there is no such as I wish not to come back to the world coming.
Otherwise I found your comment funny. Keep up the nice work …
ps. read my reply to Eva S. Balogh’s question and you might be enlightened.

tappanch
Guest

Arrivals of migrants/refugees in 2017:

Italy: 96,800 (sea) [through August 8]
(adult men: 74.4%, adult women: 11.0%, children: 14.6%)

(Nigeria: 17.8%, Bangladesh: 10.4%, Guinea: 9.8%, Ivory Coast: 9.3%, Gambia: 6.2%, Senegal: 6.1%, Mali: 6.0%, Eritrea: 5.7%)

https://data2.unhcr.org/en/situations/mediterranean/location/5205

Spain: 8,700 (sea) + 3,464 (land) [through July 31]
(adult men: 82.8%, adult women: 9.0%, children: 8.2%)

(Guinea: 21.6%, Ivory Coast: 19.3%, Gambia: 11.6%, Syria: 10.2%, Morocco: 9.5%, Algeria: 7.7%, Cameroon: 7.3%)

https://data2.unhcr.org/en/situations/mediterranean/location/5226

Greece: 11,919 (sea) [through August 6]
(adult men: 45.8%, adult women: 21.7%, children: 32.5%)

(Syria: 36.5%, Iraq: 9.0%, Kinshasa Congo: 6.8%, Afghanistan: 5.8%)

https://data2.unhcr.org/en/situations/mediterranean/location/5179

Cyprus: 530 (sea)

https://data2.unhcr.org/en/situations/mediterranean

tappanch
Guest

Sea arrivals, monthly maxima and minima

2014-01: 3,287 min
2014-09: 33,993 max

2015-01: 5,573 min

The big Erdogan —> Merkel wave:
2015-05: 39,636
2015-09: 221,638 max
2016-03: 37,026

2016-04: 13,265 min
2016-10: 31,547 max

2017-01: 6,811 min
2017-07: 27,899 max

Jean P.
Guest

The panick among Orbán’s henchmen in Keszthely and surroundings is probably caused by their fear that the local people will first time in their lives see :”migrants” and discover that they do not walk on horse hooves.

dos929
Guest

Humanity, compassion, empathy and ‘good Christian values’ have all but disappeared from Hungary under the Orban regime. Instead Hungary, or rather the shameless Hungarian government, has a constant ‘war’ against non-existent enemies of all kinds, incitement against humanitarian organisations and people who have not committed any wrongdoing, and of course the ultimate victims of this policy are the Hungarian citizens, most of whom dreaming to leave this country for better pastures that still have democratic values. In the meantime Orban and his cronies are basking in the confusion that got hold on the EU and the world at large that are too busy with their own problems and have no time dealing with this insignificant country called Hungary…

Member

“those Hungarians who are considered by Brussels to be retarded folks disposed to fascist ideas cried out from Zalavár to Keszthely: not one of them here.”

Well, if the cap fits then…

Yes, those Hungarians who continue to support the evil ideas of the fascist regime are indeed racist retards who need to be thoroughly decontaminated in order to deserve the right to call themselves “civilised human beings”.

How do we achieve that decontamination?
Without the European Union standing up to these scum and refusing to finance their sick society, then it will be very difficult.

But on a personal level, I do not want one of these people (Fidesz supporters) as my neighbor much less friend. I would as soon go for a beer with a KKK wife-beater than share a palinka with someone who continues to support this evil “government”.

Guest
I’m quoting myslf from yesterday: When I asked my wife what she thought of the Mayors declaring the refugees as “unerwünschte Subjekte” she got really angry at the idiocy of them and called them “just party soldiers” like in Communist times who will do whatever the party leadership aks them to do without thinking about the consequences. And then she used some swear words on those fascist idiots in Fidesz … Sometimes I wish that the foreign tourists would react, staying away from Hungary – but then of course only the regular people would be hurt, the Fidesz Mafiosi would just laugh … We’re still hoping that the EU will react to this. I’ve been living (part time) in that area for almost 20 years now – but had’t expected this level of xenophobia, hate, total stupidity etc! Bunko paraszt might be appropriate for these people – though of course there are some nice paraszt around … I have to correct myself: I’ve often written that Hungary seems to be fifty years behind – obviously some people are a hundred years behind, the US South with its race laws comes to mind … PS: At first I was astonished that… Read more »
wrfree
Guest
Re: ‘I’ve often written that Hungary seems to be fifty years behind – obviously some people are a hundred years behind, the US South with its race laws comes to mind. The South and Magyarorszag. Two very different places and each can bring out the worst in each other if linked up when identifying certain groups. Fascinating how extreme far-right ‘secessionist’ Southerners praise the Magyar/Eastern Europe quest for freedom during the days of communism using it as a position to argue the ‘freedom’ to secede from the overbearing United States. And the South to those are like-minded in a political sense with Magyarorszag on presenting a platform of localized nationalism, white supremacy and preserving a heritage which they feel is attacked and slipping away. Preserving the ‘culture’ is of the utmost importance. Arguably the Putin-Orban dynamic philosophical duo have ‘friends’ here who they don’t even know virtually in a sense stirring up our ‘Civil War’ again……..and through no work of their own. Unfortunately, there are extremists who act out those thoughts and contribute to tragedy. On June 17th of ’15 a white supremacist Dylann Roof killed nine black individuals during a service at Emmanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston.… Read more »
jeppi
Guest

Your posting is a great example of the “leftist paradoxon” as we say in geman. You claim that Hungary is 50 years behind and call the it “far right” but you don’t recognize that the Islamic cultures, which Hungary wants to keep on distance, are 250 years behind and even more right.

So if the heavy Muslim population increase in western Europe continues – which it surely will, than Austria and Germany will fall behind Hungary by the end of the century.
In Austria even the left – liberal “Standard” is now alarmed by the expolding muslim percentage rates and even the famous and highly popular Green member Dr. Pilz has founded a new islam critical party, that will decimate the original Greens in October’s elections.

Normally, I oposite almost everything that Orban does, but his strcit Anti Islam politics will prove him right in a few years.

wrfree
Guest
Perhaps but I’d say that depends who will still be around. Muslims look like they’ll be neighbors for quite awhile. Orban… well if we think about he is relatively speaking a transient compared to that. The migrant vitriol reminds me of the flat earth fellows as the big orb kept on hitting them in the face. Took them awhile to get the construct rooted in their realities. VO’s response to the ‘unwashed’ is one of many that could be taken. And it is a poor lock-step unthinking defense , as if a fence can thoroughly bar and deprive recognition of the despised. The physical and psychological energy expended will be a massive undertaking to repel the great ‘invaders’. They will be committed for the long haul with no deviation. It will be a wonder in the decades ahead if the country can stand on its two feet under the pressures. The exhaustion of a small country alone could perhaps kill off any semblance of a viable Magyar culture in the face of keeping and propping up a deleterious machine rolling on and on to who knows where. The migrants then will not be the culprits of decline but they themselves… Read more »
petofi
Guest

Investment is everything.
More than 30 years ago the Saudis made their bed with the Bush family in it. Now, they hardly ever get called on their misdeeds.

Example 1: the day after the twin towers, 3 huge plains with members of Osama bin Laden’s extended family took off from American airports for their homeland.

Example 2: the Saudis have been financing the building of mosques throughout Africa. Also, they build and finance religious schools that teach only the Koran. Result: In Dakar, Senegal, the boulevard medians are full of 12 year old girls with two babes each, begging all day through.
* * * * * *

It should be interesting to compare the birthrate in Saudi Arabia with the birthrate in Moslem, African countries.

(Clash of Civilizations, anyone?)

Guest

I wouldn’t be surprised if any of these mayors had never seen a single migrant…

Member

Don’t be ridiculous. All Hungarians have at least one relative who has migrated to a richer country.

Guest

Alex, you made my day! 🙂

Guest

Excellent

jeppi
Guest

In Germany and in Austria it’s rather the case that the members of the pro migrant leftist parties send their children to expensive private schools in wealthy districts in order to avoid every contact with the low performing migrant childern.

Reality Check
Guest

Idiotic statement. They could just as well be sending them to those schools because the quality of education is better ad they want to give their children an advantage. Not to avoid migrant children.
Just because your mind works in this bigoted manner is no reason to assume that others think in the same primitive way.

jeppi
Guest

I will give you a reality check: The education in private schools is mostly better, BECAUSE of the far lower migrant rate. Someone that denies this simple fact is bigot, not me.

Ferenc
Guest

Part of my yesterday’s comment: Refugees and the Balaton
Infuriating news: Mayors and politicians claiming that “the news understandably caused panic under the locals”, “it being part of the Soros plan”, etc. All of this is utter and utter BS (bika sz*r), but it shows the (un)reality Fidesz is forcing on the people in Hungary. In reality what these Fidesz representatives want is 101% against ‘their own’ Fundamental Law, giving each and every person legally residing in HU the right to freely move and stay in Hungary!!
Source: http://budapestbeacon.com/featured-articles/fidesz-mayors-mp-prevent-refugees-vacationing-lake-balaton/49525
Interview with Siewert of Migration Aid: http://www.atv.hu/videok/video-20170808-siewert-andras

On the other, so not Fidesz’s, hand another association, Menedék Egyesület, organized a daytrip for 44 refugees to Tihany (the peninsula in the middle of Lake Balaton). No problems whatsoever with the locals and other visitors, some refugees even enjoyed the refreshing (?) water of the lake. This seems to show the real hospitality of the Hungarian people!!
Source: https://444.hu/2017/08/09/egyetlen-beszolast-kapott-a-tihanyban-kirandulo-menekultcsoport
Interview with representative of Menedék Egyesület: http://hirtv.hu/egyenesen/tihanyi-mekka-1400990

PS: the picture in the post is from the Tihany daytrip, more and full story can be found here https://abcug.hu/balatonban-az-jo-hogy-nem-kell-benne-felni/

Ferenc
Guest

For those who understand some Hungarian, here it’s possible to compare two very different TV interviews with Siebert from Migration Aid.
One by Echo TV, the other by ATV (same as in comment above)
http://migrationaid.org/tunderliget-tunderek-nelkul/

The last words in the Echo TV video: “Nuclear War…”, this is happily and of course not related to this subject (but to tensions between USA and North-Korea)…

Guest

It’s unbelievable …
Hungary will be the laughing stock of the world again when this makes the rounds in the international media!

How idiotic can you get! Just look at the pictures of some of the “Tiszta Magyar” politicians involved.

Ferenc
Guest

Repeat of my yesterday’s comment:
Question: what can local people do against local politicians?
Normally people can try through local politics. But in this case, where most likely the majority in the local council and the mayor are both from the same party, there is very little chance that this could lead to something.
Next option could be to start heavy discussions in the local media, and hope that this could lead to something serious against unacceptable behaviour of local politicians. But if succeeding in the media, it probably would still hit the wall of the majority party.
So, leaves over the legal path. Does anybody here know: the legal options, if any, for individuals and/or organizations against local politicians in Hungary?
In this case some local politicians are acting against the rights in the Fundamental Law, which first of all shows their incompetence for their public task and furthermore seems to me a very severe violation of the law, i.e.a crime!!

Ferenc
Guest

One more question: What to do with Magyar Idők?comment image
For my feeling it receives much more references than it deserves, which mainly causes their “news” to spread more than ‘on it’s own’.
Of course outrageous items need a response and if possible debunking and/or refuting, but in the current way they are more leading the other media than they deserve. I mean how many people are really reading and believing what they read in it? They themselves don’t publish any data about their readership, nor allow to be monitored about it.
Why do polling organizations not step into this vacuum about the printed/internet media?
Three main question: 1.what do you read/follow – 2.why do you read/follow that/those – 3.opinion about contents (believe news or not, agree with opinions or not, etc).
If data from such a poll would be made public, it hopefully reveals the truth about MI as being nothing more than The Emperor’s New Papers, as a variation to an old tale https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor%27s_New_Clothes . Yeah, Viki you’re naked…comment image
source pictures: Efteling – https://www.efteling.com/en/park/attractions/fairytale-forest/fairytales

Ferenc
Guest

Migration Aid’s post on their website about the media coverage of this story (incl.a joke at the end…)
In English!: http://migrationaid.org/en/migration-aid-starts-settling-thousands-of-anunnakis-to-the-fair-city-of-keszthely-financed-by-soros/

Istvan
Guest

While the focus of Magyar hostility is towards the small group of refugees, there is also hostility towards some tourists to Hungary who are not white. This hostility has been noted on travel websites with comments like “a Thai friend was racially harassed in Budapest.” It has even been discussed on fodor’s travel website. Interestingly, in Chicago French tourists are warned by their travel sites and government to avoid the Black community due to the levels of violence. See http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-11-19/news/ct-france-chicago-advisory-met-1119-20131119_1_choose-chicago-france-french-ministry

There is also a growing resentment to tourism throughout Europe, there was even a protest against tourism in Venice not long ago, in particular about Airbnb moving foreign tourists out of the City centers and into residential areas by renting out apartments and homes. I have three Airbnb rentals on our own north side block here in Chicago that have been rented by tourists from all over the world, and they have even taken photos of our large home and my sport cars in our driveway. I don’t have a problem with it, but other residents complain of living in a fish bowl in the summer. I find that bizarre.

exTor
Guest

I personally know a librarian who used to work nearby [Királyerdei könyvtár]. I went over to her newly purchased house still under renovations and started taking pics of the house and the hood.

A young lady (living across the street from the librarian) came out enquiring what I was doing. I asked (somewhat snarkily) whether it’s against the law to photograph from the street. At some point her father came and suggested that I leave the neighborhood.

I told him that I would, not because he had said so, but because I had something to do. I also informed him that in Hungary it is NOT against the law to photograph houses FROM the street.

Laws on public photography vary, however it is quite universal that photos can be taken anywhere in public. A person cant, however, go onto private property to take pictures, nor can a person stalk another to take photos.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Member

Hungary’s law is rather restrictive. You can take photos of buildings, but if you photograph people, you have to blot out their faces in many circumstances, even if they are in a public place. Central Europeans in general are afraid of photos because you never know who is doing what, with whom, under what circumstances.

Guest

Imho the real problem is not that little fascist so called journalist but the position of these Mayors who really should know better. Back in Hungary next week I’ll try to ask around maybe whether they were coerced by the honchos in Bp or really are that stupid!
In that case I think I have to give up and join petofi here …
In Germany we’d say: Da ist Hopfen und Malz verloren – Hungary has become as bad as Nazi Germany was once.
And the only way out would be for every sane person to leave asap and let those fascist idiots rot in their own shite!

Ferenc
Guest

“Mayors who really should know better”
BUT THEY DON’T!! So they’re incompetent for their public task, and should be nicely asked, voted and/or ordered to LEAVE their position!!
If Bp/Felcsuti leaders coerced (Befehl ist Befehl) them or not, isn’t relevant in their cases. What nevertheless is interesting if coercing of any kind was applied, so that is strongly recommended to be investigated. If any such is discovered, it should be made public and hopefully will backfire to those ‘leaders’!!

Aida
Guest

The rumour in Hungary is that soon there will be a bogus coup attempt as per Turkey to enable the regime to declare state of emergency and to wipe out such media freedom that still exists. Is this credible?

Jean P.
Guest

Fidesz sources have predicted that something will happen in the fall. What Fidesz predicts is what they have planned.

The aim is not limited to wiping out the last traces of media freedom. It is to wipe out all dangers to the Orban gang.

The paranoia is eating their souls just as it happened to the Turkish regime.

Zoli
Guest
Fact is that Hungary’s tourism industry is booming, together with that of the region, while some countries in Western Europe are actually seeing a decline in the past few years. One of the main factors in the past few years has been the fact that there are no migrants, recent or not so recent. Fact is that people still want an authentic European experience, which is no longer what one gets in most of Western Europe, so more and more people visit the part of Europe that remains home to distinct historical cultures, not a multikulti stew. There is also the safety factor. No migrants means that not a single one of the hundreds of victims of terror attacks in Europe from the past few years occurred in Eastern Europe. Not to mention the thousands of cases of rapes and molestation. I am sure that no one coming home from a honeymoon wants the photo album to contain pictures of their new bride getting an unsolicited, public, mass-gynecological examination. It just isn’t very romantic. Sending those migrants to a touristic spot will ruin Hungary’s brand as a migrant-free area where people can feel free to enjoy in safety. I am… Read more »
Ferenc
Guest

Dear Zoli,
People, who are spreading the nonsensical and factual fully incorrect spew like you did above, make me wishing never ever having to visit Hungary again. Or at least never ever having to pay any respect to such respectless humans, as you present yourself at the moment.
Wishing you to soon recover from that respectlessness, and become a real human being again, so we can meet sometime in the future.

Zoli
Guest

Care to point out the factually incorrect?

Ferenc
Guest

Well I took your text and started to cross out what was factually incorrect, well what remained was a full crossed out text!!

Zoli
Guest

In other words, you made a false claim and can’t come up with a factual counter-argument. Thank you!

Ferenc
Guest

Like I stated none (zero) of what you wrote was factually correct. Claim just one now by which you keep standing and I’ll reply!

tappanch
Guest

Let us look at the statistical data, as usual. France had its more than fair share of terrorist attacks in recent years. By the way, most of the attacks were committed by Islamists born in France and Belgium, and not by recent migrants or refugees.

Non-resident tourists in hotels and similar establishments.

2011: 30.5 million tourists
2012: 31.0
2013: 33.3
2014: 34.2
2015: 34.9

So the number of tourists increased every year.
In the total nights spent in France, there was indeed a 1.5% decline in 2015.

2011: 196.6 million nights by tourists
2012: 197.5
2013: 204.4
2014: 206.6
2015: 203.3

http://www.e-unwto.org/doi/abs/10.5555/unwtotfb0250071220112015201611

http://www.e-unwto.org/doi/abs/10.5555/unwtotfb0250010020112015201611

Now let us check Britain, another favorite terrorist target.

2011: 235.2 million nights by tourists
2012: 230.2
2013: 245.5
2014: 264.6
2015: 273.0

http://www.e-unwto.org/doi/abs/10.5555/unwtotfb0826211220112015201609

tappanch
Guest

So I would not shed tears over the tourism industry in Western Europe.

Zoli
Guest

You conveniently left out 2016. You can find the data on Eurostat, which shows a decline of 8.7% in France.

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/7822893/4-24012017-AP-EN.pdf/922150f7-b642-418d-ab42-9867347d5439

I can tell you this much, as a parent and husband, I could care less whether most of them are recent migrants or children of previous waves of migrants. Last year, I brought my family to Europe, and during that five week period over 100 people were killed in a number of terrorist attacks in Europe. Thankfully, we were behind the safety of the former iron curtain, but before we went, me and my wife were discussing a tour of Western Europe as well. We were very glad we decided against it. Our children and their safety are non-negotiable, and for me, so is the safety of my wife. I do not want to see her raped or molested by roaming gangs of misogynists. I can tell you for a fact that I am not the only one who feels that way. Makes sense?

tappanch
Guest

I used the tourist industry’s latest detailed data, which does not cover 2016 yet.

The Eurostat data you quoted has a fine print “2016 estimates based on 10 months data as available”

Zoli
Guest

do you really think that the final numbers will show something radically different?

tappanch
Guest

Today’s article:

“2017, une année record pour le tourisme en France ?”

hotel nights, 1st half year numbers of each year

2012: 93.9 million
2013: 93.3
2014: 91.8
2015: 93.8
2016: 92.5, a 1.4% decline
2017: 96.8, a 4.6% jump

http://www.leparisien.fr/societe/2017-une-annee-record-pour-le-tourisme-en-france-10-08-2017-7185918.php

Zoli
Guest

since the numbers are only for the first half of 2016, and it is for everyone not just foreigners, it does not negate the Eurostat numbers. The 2017 figures are a reflection of a rebound. Remains to be seen whether it will last, depending on how horrific the next few terrorist attacks will be.

Zsolt
Guest
I guess you have a car and take your children places with it. By all means don’t do it. And especially don’t take them to Hungary with it. The changes of dying in a car related accident in Hungary are about 3 times as high as in Western Europe and car related deaths in general are about a 1000 times as common as terrorist related deaths. Might also be a good idea to throw your television out since changes of dying of a falling television are about 9 times as high as the change of dying from a terrorist attack. If you have a look at http://www.datagraver.com/case/people-killed-by-terrorism-per-year-in-western-europe-1970-2015 you will see that between 1970 and 1990 you had by far the biggest change, although still minute, by dying of terrorist related violence and if you have a look https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/world/a-history-of-terrorism-in-europe/ you will see that terrorism is actually declining in Western Europe and on the rise in Eastern Europe. So does it make sense, no, like most of what you’re writing it doesn’t. You might feel that way but it has nothing to do with facts. Not an uncommon state of mind in Hungary. That is not to say that you don’t have… Read more »
Zoli
Guest

Yes, and odds of being murdered are also lower than dying in a car crash. Would you move your family in a high murder area? That is such a pathetic excuse to promote tolerance of terrorist attacks!

Zsolt
Guest

Where did I say I tolerated terrorist attacks. Terrorist attacks are hideous crimes against innocent people committed by lunatics. I merely pointed out that if you care about the safety of your family and yourself there are much more significant considerations to take in account than the changes of becoming victim of a terrorist attack. But that point was apparently lost on you or you chose to ignore it.

Member

If you care for your wife and children, first of all be nice to them yourself and don’t beat them.

BTW I was also very lucky, that none of my relatives, friends and colleagues in Germany neither have been raped nor killed.
Most of them didn’t dare to go out of their houses and preferred to hide in locked basement rooms until you were back again behind your iron curtain.

Jean P.
Guest

Very few people outside Hungary know anything about how many migrants there are in Hungary. They chose Hungary when they have looked at the price tag.

Vaci utca in Budapest where the tourists spend most of their time in Hungary looks like any other walking street in a European capital.

Guest

Hungary’s brand as a migrant-free area
Yes, that’s been the reason why tourists have been coming to the Balton for how long?
Thank you for showing that you are just a little fascist boy – now f*ck off!

Member

“Not to mention the thousands of cases of rapes and molestation”

Hungarian males need no lessons from their muslim counterparts in that regard. Indeed, beating up their womenfolk to keep them in their place as long been apart of right-wing Magyar “culture”

jeppi
Guest

The majority of Germans and Austrians support a total muslim migration ban too, in the latter country the support is almost as high as in hungary.

Ferenc
Guest

Really? Please show reliable data confirming any part of your statement.

jeppi
Guest

Poll by Chatham House and as far as I remember this blog itself has mentioned the numbers a few weeks ago.

Ferenc
Guest

You’re more or less correct about the Chatman House data, as you didn’t supply any further info/link, I had to search for it:

Poll title: ‘All further migration from mainly Muslim countries should be stopped’
Source: Chatham House, https://www.chathamhouse.org/expert/comment/what-do-europeans-think-about-muslim-immigration

The research was done 2016.Dec-2017.Jan and published 2017.Feb after djT’s executive order to ban citizens of seven Muslim-majority states from entering the US for 90 days.

PS: don’t recall having noticed the numbers on this blog, may be Eva can clarify that.

tappanch
Guest

Speaking of Eurostat, the ExImBank vote went against the Orban government on July 13.

So the Hungarian national debt should include the liabilities of the state-owned ExImBank (e.g. its loans to Orban’s proxies Garancsi and Vajna), which raises the debt/GDP level by 2% instantaneously.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7KRa6N2WmVDRzcwdmR3b3pEQ3c/view

http://www.portfolio.hu/gazdasag/varatlanul_elbukta_magyarorszag_az_oriasi_elszamolasi_csatat_egy_hajszalon_mult_a_gyozelem.4.259027.html

https://444.hu/2017/08/10/kimondtak-hogy-szabalytalanul-trukkozott-az-allam-az-eximbank-adossagaval

tappanch
Guest

Detailed analysis of the ExImBank vote on the national debt:

http://hvg.hu/gazdasag/20170810_allamadossag_eurostat_eximbank_ngm

Zoli
Guest

Yes, that may be true, but that is an accounting issue, not an economic evolution issue. When comparing apples to apples since 2010, Hungary’s debt/GDP declined from 83%, to 74%, and continues to decline.

tappanch
Guest

Well, the “debt/GDP” ratio is also an accounting issue.

The calculation of the GDP was changed in September 2014. The result was an automatic increase of the GDP, i.e. a decrease of the ratio.

The list of tricks to make the “debt” look smaller is very long.

The number which is probably the least manipulated is the NET debt of the government, but not on a December 31.

central government net debt:
2010-03-31 16.3101 trillion HUF
2017-03-31 24.7527, a 51.76% increase under Orban.

total government net debt:
2010-03-31 16.0852 trillion HUF
2017-03-31 22.6649, a 40.91% increase.

Zoli
Guest

The debt/gdp is more important, because it is a reflection of fiscal health, which is why it is usually the number that is referred to in most stats. You say it is manipulated, but you forget that there is EC oversight over these numbers. Not to mention that if you had any actual understanding on how GDP and debt numbers are tabulated, you would realize that there really is not much that can be done to manipulate. I do not dispute that the total debt increased under Orban. It increased in at least 95% of all countries on this planet during the corresponding period. But compared with the 2002-2010 period, when the debt/GDP ratio increased from 56% to 82%, I’d say the Hungarian economy is moving in the right direction in this regard. Frankly, bringing up the total debt argument is just ideological pettiness on you part. Especially since the Eximbank issue is one which is cited to change debt/GDP.

Member

Let’s not forget the private retirement funds, that the
Oban government pumped back into the budget. That was about 10% of the GDP and hole had to be plugged in in the budget by the Socialists. They practically received a loan (10% of the GDP) then blamed it on Gyurcsany. Very clever.

And well, yes the debt is going down slightly, because they spend less on education and health care. What an idea!

Ferenc
Guest

“since 2010, Hungary’s debt/GDP declined from 83%, to 74%, and continues to decline”
“debt/gdp is more important”

Let’s take some reliable data!!
Source: TheGlobalEconomy.com, The World Bank

Government debt as percent of GDP:
Hungary for 2010: 81.58%
Hungary for 2011: 90.84%
Hungary for 2012: 94.34%
Hungary for 2013: 94.51%
Hungary for 2014: 98.08%
Hungary for 2015: 96.52% (latest data available on theglobaleconomy.com)

Conclusion: sorry Zoli, you use much more words, than have reliable data and facts to support your opinions

More data at http://www.theglobaleconomy.com/compare-countries/
select your item and countrie(s), you like to compare
Note: the very latest data not always available (most likely reason: takes time to add to their database)

Zoli
Guest
Ferenc
Guest

Why “Wrong!”
The data just clearly differs, and that should be checked for which reason that is.

I compared gov.debt per GDP data for some other countries (UK, USA, CZ and HU) at tradingeconomics (eurostat) and theglobaleconomy (worldbank).
Noticed differences:
-theglobaleconomy shows higher figures for all
-pretty similar trends acc.both sources for UK, USA, CZ (2007-2015)
-HU shows very different trends after 2011 (steady decrease per tradingeconomics / steady increase per theglobaleconomy)
I haven’t got a clue what the reason for overall higher figeres and the difference in HU trend can be.
If you have an explanation, please bring forward.

Zoli
Guest

I have no idea why the numbers on the site you cited are the way they are, and I do not intend to investigate. It could be any number of accounting reasons. I cited trading economics, because it mirrors official numbers, such as EC-approved numbers from Eurostat.

Ferenc
Guest

Well it seems (see start of this commend line) that HU needs to start correcting ‘their approved numbers from Eurostat’…
Better include ExImBank from now on (and in all previous data)…

tappanch
Guest

Here is the World Bank data

Central government debt, total (% of GDP)

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/GC.DOD.TOTL.GD.ZS?locations=HU

Guest

It’s funny in a waywhen you see the small minded fascist xenophobes appearing here again – normally one should just push the buttion on the toilet to get rid of them …
Back to reality:
The place where these poor people were supposed to be is Zalavár (a nice village, though a bit …) – 10 km from the Balaton!

So the poor xenophobic tourists (which surely exist) would not see them at all …
And what the Fidesz mayors said is so unbelievably stupid – only the comments by our Fidesz visitors here are worse.

Birthright
Guest

wolfi7777 … wolfi7777,
Did you include the “one should just push the buttion on the toilet to get rid of them …” as a joke or you would like to get rid of everybody not agreeing with your views?
I know there was another German ordering his people to dump nerve gas into the bath to “get rid of them… ”
I hope you are not the resurrection of him 🙂

Birthright
Guest

Dear Eva S. Balogh,
As I haven’t seen anybody doing so, or just skipped my attention, I would like to mention something that is a detriment on the enjoyment of your blog, not in substance rather in appearance, namely the multi-level comments that at the extreme becoming one letter wide columns. Is there any solution to offset it somehow?

wpDiscuz