László Bogdán is still the Roma miracle worker of Cserdi

It was just a little over four years ago that I wrote a post on László Bogdán, “the Roma miracle worker of Cserdi,” a small village in Baranya County where about 75% of the inhabitants are Roma. Bogdán is a man of exceptional intelligence, although he has only an eighth-grade education. As a result of his talents and hard work he became the head of a department in a multinational company in Pécs, which was shuttered shortly after Bogdán left the firm. At this point he moved back to the village of his ancestors to become its mayor. Since then, Cserdi has become a showcase of what a small, mostly Gypsy village can achieve with proper leadership. Cserdi by now owns fair sized forests, which the residents themselves established; they have several greenhouses; and they sell their products in Pécs and elsewhere. They even had extra to give away to poor people in Budapest. Cserdi was riddled with petty crime before Bogdán became mayor. On average 200 cases a year. Today, Cserdi is practically crime-free. Unemployment used to be extraordinarily high, but nowadays anyone who wants to work can.

Not surprisingly, opposition politicians have been intrigued by Bogdán and Cserdi. In November 2013 Ferenc Gyurcsány, chairman of the Demokratikus Koalíció, went to see Bogdán and, if I recall properly, was ambivalent about Bogdán’s draconian methods of achieving discipline among the Gypsy workers. Bogdán behaves the way an old-fashioned, harsh father would within his own family. He has no compunctions about intruding into the private lives of the Cserdi folks. For example, when some families complained about insufficient wages, he collected their garbage cans to show all the beer cans and empty boxes of cigarettes for everyone to see.

Although some human rights activists have criticized Bogdán, people are still intrigued by his success. A few days ago László Botka, MSZP candidate for the premiership, accompanied by István Ujhelyi, paid a visit to Cserdi. Botka urged Bogdán “to work together for a fairer Hungary which we can all call home.” But Bogdán is a fiercely independent man. As he said in an interview in 2015, he doesn’t want to be “the harlot” of any party.

Bogdán has a very low opinion of the network of Roma self-governments that was set up after 1990. He calls the leaders practically illiterate crooks who pocket billions of euros given for Roma projects. If it depended on him, he would scrap the whole program. He considers Flórián Farkas, Orbán’s favorite Gypsy politician, the greatest enemy of the Hungarian Roma because not only has he embezzled millions but he exhibits all of the traits non-Gypsies associate with Roma culture.

Otherwise, many ideas of the Orbán regime appeal to him. First and foremost, the idea of a “work-based society.” In his opinion, his fellow Gypsies have gotten accustomed to sitting at home and receiving their monthly assistance. Gypsies have to relearn to work. He was apparently horrified listening to a speech by a liberal politician who advocated the notion of basic income. He got so upset that his “legs were shaking,” he was “all nerves.” He approves of the public works program, but not the way it works now. Communities spend the money they receive picking up cigarette butts from the streets instead of directing it to “productive work” and “commercial activities.”

Bogdán is extraordinarily articulate and has plenty of opportunity to express his ideas. Therefore it is relatively easy to piece together his ideas about the ideal way of solving the “Gypsy problem.” Since most Gypsies live in small villages, far away from larger towns and cities which they have difficulty reaching, work must be created locally. And given that these villages are in rural areas, their business activities should be centered on agriculture. The money the communities receive from the central budget should be used to pay decent wages for productive work on public properties, which should be repurposed as agricultural land. This is how he started his Cserdi project. Without any machinery the local Gypsies created a large tract of agricultural land where they planted potatoes. And today, he continues, they are in the process of establishing a small factory that would use their produce to manufacture their own brand of canned goods. He envisages the Cserdi company as one day becoming a large concern that would buy up produce from nearby villages and supply large supermarkets with their “Lasipe” product. Lasipe means “goodness” in Lovari, a Gypsy language spoken in Hungary, Austria, and Slovakia.

This all sounds wonderful, but for that, each Gypsy community would need a sizable amount of initial and continuing capital and, what is even more important, one would need hundreds and hundreds of László Bogdáns. Unfortunately, even if Bogdán were ready to work with the Orbán government, which I highly doubt, Viktor Orbán has no intention of investing much money into a large-scale restructuring of the Roma communities. He is only interested in Gypsy votes, which apparently are guaranteed by Flórián Farkas and his friends, who are running the show at the moment.

I should add that Bogdán’s local fame spread over the years, and he became well known outside of Hungary. He is very enterprising and has received a great deal of assistance from abroad. For example, he made contacts with German companies, which helped with certain projects in Cserdi. As a result, he has traveled extensively abroad. His latest trip was to the United States, apparently arranged by former Hungarian Ambassador Réka Szemerkényi and Consul-General of New York Ferenc Kumin. The highlight of his three-week visit was the speech he delivered to the UN Commission on the Status of Women, “a body dedicated to the promotion of gender equality and the empowerment of women.” The topic of his speech was the serious problem of early marriage among the Roma, with girls becoming pregnant at the age of 12 and by the age of 30 being grandmothers. By 40 they are considered to be old women. He blamed Gypsy men for this state of affairs. He talked about his own insistence that the girls of Cserdi go to school and become educated. The trip to the United States obviously made an impression on him. “I could talk about Hungary as a Hungarian.” He was not distinguished as a Gypsy and therefore inferior.

Lately Bogdán has given a number of interviews that have made quite an impression on his audience. One especially remarkable interview was with Olga Kálmán on HírTV, in which he expressed his mixed feelings about the hate campaign conducted by the Orbán government. As a result, “My status, as a Gypsy, has been elevated somewhat. Now I belong to the third most hated group in this country. Ahead of me are George Soros and the migrants.” He also told Kálmán that as of now all young Gypsies in Cserdi attend high school. That announcement prompted an associate professor at the Budapest Technical University to write to Bogdán. Since her own daughter is studying abroad, she offered her empty room to the first Gypsy girl from Cserdi who is admitted to a college or university in Budapest. Yes, Bogdán can move people to do the right thing.

August 16, 2017
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tappanch
Guest
tappanch
Guest

Employment. Gypsy men vs women.

1978. 77.3% vs 47.0%
1987. 74.4% vs 49.3%

1993: 28.8% vs 16.1%
2003: 28.0% vs 15.1%

http://hvg.hu/itthon/200643HVGFriss227

Guest

These numbers describe one of the basic problems – unqualified people who “learned nothing” are no longer needed in a capitalist economy …
In Socialist times everybody had a job, nowadays?
It still pains me to think that after 1989 nobody in the Hungarian government seems to have thought about what to do, what to offer these hundreds of thousands of unskilled workers.

Istvan
Guest
I agree contemporary capitalism is continuously eliminating lower skilled jobs, this article that ran yesterday https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/aug/16/retail-industry-cashier-jobs-technology-unemployment is emblematic of the evolution taking place. As I have commented before it’s happening in automation of production facilities and in transportation systems too. The quantity of higher skilled jobs replacing redundant simpler jobs is by far smaller, else-wise there would be no productivity gain for the company. It’s a profound crisis that is slowly multiplying world wide in advanced nations and will have an eventual massive impact on consumption unless capitalist economies adopt some type of guaranteed minimum income (GMI) social welfare state. Right now I can’t conceive the USA going this direction given how hostile we are to those receiving minimal social welfare benefits, let alone a benefit package designed to prop up our profit driven exchange based economy. As a conservative that prospect is deeply disturbing indeed. Our basic educational systems really have no idea what to do, here in the USA we keep trying to push lower income children into college assuming this is the pathway to the technological future. But at least here we are seeing big numbers of these lower income students overwhelmed by debt and taking lower… Read more »
Guest

Thanks for confirming this problem, Istvan!
In Germany we’re also working on it – hope that success will happen, but not like the Hungarian “public works” which must be really frustrating for the participants from the way these peopleact when you pass them.

A bit OT re strong cocktails:
No way -it’s much too hot and sice we have that “zero tolerance” policy I just had one glass of red wine with the “szürke marha pörkölt” my wife cooked today.

And in the evening there’ll be a nice cold beer with the neighbout who’s coming over for some work (he gets paid of course …).
Musicwise it’s Eric Clapton – he’s my wife’s favourite and then Joe Bonamassa …
We have DVDs of all the Crossroads Concerts where Clapton invited the best white and black Blues musicians, watch them again and again …
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossroads_Guitar_Festival

wrfree
Guest

Szurke marha porkolt, red wine and the music. Sure better combo to be in the thick of rather er…..than Donny, The Big ‘O’ and the alt-fighters. Let us all rock on. 😎👍

wrfree
Guest
Re: Istvan.. ‘the future is not bright’ It would appear when looking at those far- righters that they have succumbed to seeing a bleak outlook where they just cannot pivot to the changes that would seem to be required in our tech-laden environment. This would be affecting both the well-educated and the least. The latter are behind the 8 ball from the get go. The well-educated on the other hand almost have to be ‘salesmen’ to find a niche for themselves. They cannot sit by and do status quo. Somebody is always being measured. The ‘new’ way of working requires a different mind set in order to climb the rungs of success. It’s no longer a 9 to 5 workday but rather the working and personal worlds seem to meld into each other here in the US. For myself, I’ve worked a long time in corporate life and started to see the changes a few years ago. Whole new ballgame today. The far-righters fear of how to fit in as change goes about them is getting them riled. So far they’re up in ‘strike-outs’. Who knows if they can manage hits in the new reality? For the curveball pitches are… Read more »
Member

Wolf, kriess gott your wife. : )

Guest

Albrecht, please!
We are both atheists – no religious affiliation ever in life.
Again totally OT:
Looking at the crucifix over a neighbour’s door my wife told me long ago that she was kind of nervous when I invited her to dine with me in my house (that was on the day after we had been introduced – and she then stayed overnight …). She wasn’t sure what to expect from this old German guy, maybe some traditional Christian environment with pictures from the bible?
But she saw a room full of science fiction books and rock&blues records – which obviously was to her liking …
As a mathematician I can’t even start calculating the probabilty for a match like ours – only Douglas Adams could …

tappanch
Guest

Would the original Communist idea provide a partial solution ?

H. free health care for all
E. free education for all
W. work is available and mandatory for all
K.(kibbutz) jobs are rotated, [one year you are the
boss, next year it is someone else]

Istvan
Guest

May God forbid such a solution tappanch, but it is becoming a possible solution again as it was at the dawn of the industrial revolution.

Member

It seems, that one has to adapt the treatment of every group of people to get the best results, to their own way of reaction and way of life. Simply, what works for some may not work for others or bring out just the opposite results. Mr. Bogdán seems to find the right way to bring the best out of people for their own benefit.
We should not criticize his methods only based on our own value system, he has to work with people who were raised differently, who have a different cultural background and a way of life from others. As long as he is not demeaning anyone, does not hurt anyone, does not take away their basic human rights, he is operating a lot better, than the Mafia thieves and criminals, masquerading as the Hungarian Government and the results seem to prove him right.

Member

Well said!

Christopher Adam
Guest
Some 15 years ago, Peter Huncik of Slovakia, who had years of experience working on the integration of the Roma, was giving a lecture at Carleton University in Ottawa. I was an MA student there at the time. One element of his plan on integrating the Roma involved a type of apprenticeship model, with young Roma serving as assistants in various capacities to local municipal governments and institutions. I recall so clearly that many of my Canadian classmates found Dr. Huncik’s model condescending, paternalistic and deeply patronising to the Roma minority. There was lots of grumbling in the audience. One of my classmates commented: so THIS is what qualifies as “liberal” in Central Europe?? What I have learned over the years is that it’s easy for upper middle class liberal intellectuals in the West to dismiss or criticise people like Mr. Bogdán for being regressive, reactionary or harsh in his approach. But there is no “one size fits all” approach to social or socio-economic problems. Sometimes lofty theories printed in glossy textbooks, chatted about over a Starbucks coffee or embraced by wealthy white liberals in the west just cannot or should not be applied onto every situation. Many thanks to… Read more »
Guest

It feels good to read about something positive happening in Hungary – the “vicious circle ” that many Roma are kept in has always been one of the biggest problems here. A moving site:
http://www.cserdisangels.org/
We have been several times in the “neighborhood” – Pécs of course, Villány, Harkány, Szigetvár … and once drove around passing through some decrepit villages which gave an idea of what’s going on there if there is no one willing to end that system.

Rather OT but telling:
We just heard from a neighbour that in our village the last Roma families are moving out of the house they “rented” – everybody seems full of joy to get rid of them …

tappanch
Guest

Just published.
Hungarian debt according to the MNB on 2017-06-30
in trillions of forints

(gross liabilities) – (assets) = (net liabilities)
All data are as of June 30.

Central government:
2017: 34.5935 – 9.8914 = 24.7021
2010: 22.3912 – 6.2366 = 16.1546

“General” government = central + social security + local governments:
2017: 35.2742 -12.6342 = 22.6400
2010: 23.9961 – 7.9296 = 16.0665

“Consolidated” equation:
2017: 34.1784 – 11.5385 = 22.6399
2010: 23.7120- 7.6456 = 16.0664

Gross consolidated debt of the “general” government:
2017: 26.7064 trillion forints.

Gross debt of the central government (AKK)
2017: 26.31005
2010: 20.47050

difference of gross debt numbers between the MNB and AKK data:
2017: 8.28435
2010: 1.92070 trillion forints.

Note: The pre-2013 MNB data are no longer available online; but I saved them before Matolcsy took over the National Bank.

tappanch
Guest

Since the June 30 GDP numbers are not published yet, we can calculate with the previous year (Jan 1 through Dec 31) GDP.

[gross debt of the central government by AKK on June 30] / [GDP of the previous year by KSH]:

2017: 75.16% = 26.31005/35.005439
2010: 77.84% = 20.47050/26.297412

[gross liabilities of the central government by MNB on June 30]/ [GDP of the previous year by KSH]:

2017: 98.82% = 34.5935/35.005439
2010: 90.17% = 23.7120/26.297412

Member

Tappanch – According to the spreadsheet, Hungary’s national debt as a percentage of GDP (Maastricht rules) is 74% – the lowest since December 31, 2008. So, does Matolcsy have something to crow about?

tappanch
Guest

MNB press release (this is the only thing journalists seem to read):
http://www.mnb.hu/letoltes/sk-pszla-elozetes-2017-q2.pdf

[“Maastrict” debt] = 26.706 trillion
[“Maastrict” debt]/”GDP” = 74.0%

Headline on “portfolio.hu”: “The Hungarian state debt has not been so low since the crisis”
http://www.portfolio.hu/gazdasag/a_valsag_ota_nem_volt_ilyen_alacsony_a_magyar_allamadossag.2.259677.html

Let us calculate from these press release data !

[Implied] GDP: 36.089 trillion, [I guess from July 1, 2016 through June 30 2017]
This implies a 5.69% = (9.215629/8.719563 – 1) yr/yr second quarter result [unbelievable !]

tappanch
Guest

After expressing my disbelief in the press release data and its consistency with the other statistical data,
let us assume the GDP was really 36.089 trillion in the [2016-07-01 , 2017-06-30] period.

[net liabilities of the central government]/GDP, as reported by MNB:

2017: 68.45% = 24.7021/36.0890
2010: 60.97% = 16.1546/26.4953

[gross liabilities of the central government – nationalized and spent private retirement accounts]/GDP,
as reported by MNB:

2017: 88.02% = (34.5935-2.8292)/36.0890
2010: 89.50% = 23.7120/26.4953

[gross liabilities of the central government]/GDP, as reported by MNB

2017: 95.86% = 34.5935/36.0890
2010: 89.50% = 23.7120/26.4953

One should also add to the 2017 ratio about 2% from ExImBank trick.

Ferenc
Guest

tappanch – about a week ago I commented:
I compared gov.debt per GDP data for some other countries (UK, USA, CZ and HU) at tradingeconomics (eurostat) and theglobaleconomy (worldbank).
Noticed differences:
-theglobaleconomy (worldbank) shows higher figures (than tradingeconomics/eurostat) for all
-pretty similar trends acc.both sources for UK, USA, CZ (2007-2015)
-HU shows very different trends after 2011 (steady decrease per tradingeconomics / steady increase per theglobaleconomy)
I haven’t got a clue what the reason for overall higher figures and the difference in HU trend can be.

Are you able to shine some light here?

tappanch
Guest

The World Bank numbers are as follows:

Hungary.
Central government debt, total (% of GDP)

2010: 81.581%
2011: 90.842%
2012: 94.342%
2013: 94.510%
2014: 98.083%
2015: 96.519%

2015 debt in various countries:

Japan: 198.0%
Greece: 181.7% (2013)
Cyprus: 152.7%
Italy: 150.4%
Portugal: 150.3%
Belgium: 109.6%
UK: 107.6%
Singapore: 107.2%

Spain: 99.4%
France: 98.0%
US: 97.8%
Hungary: 96.5%
Austria: 95.7%
Slovenia: 94.9%
[…]

Slovakia: 56.6%
Germany: 50.5%
Romania: 45.0%
Czechia: 36.7%

Switzerland: 22.7%
Russia: 13.5%
Estonia: 0.9%

Ferenc
Guest

Thanks, I know some of these dept/GDP data.
Do you have an explanation for:
-the worldbank data being higher than Eurostat
-different trends for HU when comparing these two sources (while more or less same trends for some other countries!)

PS: in the worldbank dept/GDP data the year 2014 springs out of line, my suspicion for this is that 2014 was election year…

Guest

In an intelligible language for the non-economists, what does that say?

wrfree
Guest

Mr. Bogdan comports himself as an effective leader. He seems to understand that his job consists of understanding who he leads and doing the things which can unlock potential in them and in their communities. He seems to have a feel for that.

Also a ‘tough love’ kind of guy who goes against the grain where he delivers more action than talk. This fellow seems a pioneer. And we know its the pioneers who hold the dreams of communities and are willing to hack away at all the unknowns before them and think it’s a waste of time to complain about the ‘weather’ falling on them whatever and wherever it might be.

Mr. Cserdi looks a guy on the ball. If he was a football manager I could see his ‘man-management’ skills rocket his team to the top of the table. He knows how to get things d-o-n-e.

David North
Guest

Nice to read something positive about the gypsies in Hungary. Go Bogdan!

petofi
Guest

I believe I jumped on the Bogdan bandwagon some three years ago.
Anyone who questions his practices is, maximally, a political correctionist to the nth degree.
The key here is what Bogdan has achieved for his community; that, and whether or not he has wildly enriched himself. I don’t think he has.
He’s best to stay at the post he’s at without embracing any political ambitions, which, I daresay, will bring him to a rapid meeting with his maker. The mafia/Fidesz operation does not broke interloppers…(And Farkas is certainly one of the gang.)

petofi
Guest

Well, if you can have one gypsy, you can certainly have another. I’d certainly take Bogdan over Orban…

Hajra Bogdan!!

tappanch
Guest

Trump’s tweets two hours ago are full of pain:

“Sad to see the history and culture of our great country being ripped apart with the removal of our beautiful statues and monuments. You can’t change history, but you can learn from it. Robert E Lee, Stonewall Jackson – who’s next, Washington, Jefferson? So foolish! Also the beauty that is being taken out of our cities, towns and parks will be greatly missed and never able to be comparably replaced! ”

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump

tappanch
Guest

While Trump is busy with the Confederate sculptures, North Korea and Iran are building their atomic bombs and missiles.

tappanch
Guest

I think it would be better for everyone – the world, the US, the Republican party and Trump himself – for Trump to resign.

tappanch
Guest

“Rabbi who oversaw conversion of Ivanka Trump slams president’s response to Charlottesville”

http://www.jta.org/2017/08/17/news-opinion/united-states/rabbi-who-oversaw-conversion-of-ivanka-trump-slams-presidents-response-to-charlottesville

trackback

[…] a Roma candidate on the Jobbik list in 2018 such as the mayor of Cserdi, a Roma majority village, who has worked wonders in dramatically reducing crime and unemployment, Mr. Vona said […]

tappanch
Guest

Vona: ” I have read the earlier statements of the mayor of Cserdi and I feel that he has serious reservations about Jobbik. But I am open to launching dialogue with him”, according to your source.

http://hungarianfreepress.com/2017/08/17/jobbik-leader-calls-on-government-to-apologize-to-roma-community/

tappanch
Guest
Bannon to a left-wing journalist: “We’re at economic war with China,” […] “It’s in all their literature. They’re not shy about saying what they’re doing. One of us is going to be a hegemon in 25 or 30 years and it’s gonna be them if we go down this path. On Korea, they’re just tapping us along. It’s just a sideshow.” “There’s no military solution [to North Korea’s nuclear threats], forget it. Until somebody solves the part of the equation that shows me that ten million people in Seoul don’t die in the first 30 minutes from conventional weapons, I don’t know what you’re talking about, there’s no military solution here, they got us.” I asked Bannon about the connection between his program of economic nationalism and the ugly white nationalism epitomized by the racist violence in Charlottesville and Trump’s reluctance to condemn it.[…] He dismissed the far right as irrelevant and sidestepped his own role in cultivating it: “Ethno-nationalism—it’s losers. It’s a fringe element. “The Democrats,” he said, “the longer they talk about identity politics, I got ’em. I want them to talk about racism every day. If the left is focused on race and identity, and we go… Read more »
Guest

Why “economic war with China” – can’t there be cooperation?
I think there are several points here:
First, the USA is the biggest user of resources – and not at all efficient! So sooner or later they might have to fight for them …
The right wing mentality and the need to always be no 1(i e Hegemon) – but why does it have to be the USA? Is it their “birthright” (joke intended …)?

If the UN were organised as a democracy (one person one vote …) the USA wouldn’t be too important …
But we know of course that in the USA not all votes are equally important – see the latest election.

All animals are equal, but some are more equal than the others!

PS and totally OT:
Really nice paprika that Mr Bogdan is showing us proudly – we eat lots of them every day now!

petofi
Guest

Bannon is Trump’s towel carrier: he won’t get rid of him.
The Republican Party is frozen in support of Trump because if help remove him, Pence will not win in 2020, and the Republicans will be out of power for atleast another 8 years.
It’s that fear which holds the Repubs to continue backing the moron.
However, with all the military men around Trump, I’m convinced that he’s no longer effectively in power. For one thing, I thing the nuclear box has probably been removed.
When and if required, one of the military boys will do the necessaries on Trump.

All this does not clear up the toxic role of big money and big power in the background of the Democratic Party

tappanch
Guest

In Barcelona, there was a car ramming attack this afternoon. (possibly 13+ dead)

Since Trump did not condemn the Charlottesville car ramming as a terror attack, how will he talk about today’s terror attack ?

tappanch
Guest

Trump 30 minutes ago:

“The United States condemns the terror attack in Barcelona, Spain, and will do whatever is necessary to help. Be tough & strong, we love you!”

petofi
Guest

Trump is as presidential as the toad in my garden…

Istvan
Guest

I think I am living in a madhouse. Trump will need to be committed.

tappanch
Guest

Istvan, US Constitution, 25th Amendment , Section 4. has never been used.

“Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide …”

Who are the “principal officers” ? Is there a law of Congress detailing how to perform the replacement
of the “incapacitated” president ?

tappanch
Guest

Trump’s tweet two hours ago:
“Study what General Pershing of the United States did to terrorists when caught. There was no more Radical Islamic Terror for 35 years!”

Explanation:
Trump in South Carolina in February 2016 said this story about General Pershing, who was the governor of Moro province of Philippines (1909-1913):

“They were having terrorism problems, just like we do. And he caught 50 terrorists who did tremendous damage and killed many people. And he took the 50 terrorists, and he took 50 men and he dipped 50 bullets in pigs’ blood — you heard that, right? He took 50 bullets, and he dipped them in pigs’ blood. And he had his men load his rifles, and he lined up the 50 people, and they shot 49 of those people. And the 50th person, he said: You go back to your people, and you tell them what happened. And for 25 years, there wasn’t a problem. Okay? Twenty-five years, there wasn’t a problem.”

“”This story is a fabrication and has long been discredited,” said Brian McAllister Linn, a Texas A&M University historian” in 2016.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/feb/23/donald-trump/donald-trump-cites-dubious-legend-about-gen-pershi/

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pershing.asp

Ferenc
Guest

First my thoughts are with the victims of the attack in Barcelona, all the strength to them, their loved ones and friends.
This violence makes me very very sad, but not breaking my confidence that we can overcome this. The latest reaction (see above) of POTUS on the other hand makes me seriously doubting if I can keep my confidence.
So please Americans do something about that person supposedly leading your country, because if he can continue the way he does, it will end in tears and not only for people in your country, but for much more people on our planet (remember the 2008 financial crisis started in the US, but spread quickly and longer lasting over it’s borders).

tappanch
Guest

The story is also stupid, because the Muslim rebels did not eat the pig-blooded bullets. But they could even eat them if this saves their lives.

tappanch
Guest

“A Chicago Daily Tribune article from 1927 has a story where Pershing had prisoners from the Moro Rebellion in the Philippines. The Moros were Muslims who resisted American or any other occupying force.

The Moros had swordsmen, called Juramentados, who were killing Christians in this uprising. It had to be stopped. General Pershing was given this difficult task.

The Tribune article says Pershing sprinkled some prisoners with pig’s blood, which the Juramentados believed would condemn them for eternity. But then Pershing let the prisoners go. He issued a warning to others about being sprinkled with the pig’s blood. The Tribune article said “those drops of porcine gore proved more powerful than bullets.””

http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/162096

It is worth reading some of the comments too.

Istvan
Guest
President Trump should call the US Army War College if he wants to learn something about the Philippine-American war and our atrocities and our combat in that war. Major General Elwell Stephen Otis was so brutal he had to be removed. Really the war lasted from 1899 to 1902, possibly between 12,000 and 20,000 Philippine insurgents were killed over that period of time and maybe 200,000 Philippine civilians were also killed. Something like 5,000 US troops died, most from disease. Why is the madman Trump bringing up this horror story? The title of the most recent book on that very sad war is: America’s Needless Wars: Cautionary Tales of US Involvement in the Philippines, Vietnam, and Iraq. Now I haven’t read it, but I would say the title really says it all. I did listen to this interview with its author which is of interest https://www.wpr.org/listen/1081406 Possibly Trump should try and read a book or two, at least talk to legitimate military historians. Hell, General HR McMaster or Mathis could tell him more than all the BS he has been reading on nut case websites. A true disgrace my mad President is. Oh, but I forgot all that stuff in… Read more »
Guest

Re the Philippine/US war:
One might of course ask wtf the ‘Muricans were doing there – did they come as linberators or even colonists?

Of course that was in a time when even the Germans (as latecomers in colonialism …) thought it necessary to occupy not only some parts of Africa but also islands in South Asia and even Tsingtao – a port on the mainland of China.

So the USA should remember that they took part in colonialism too – shouldn’t be proud about it like the Donald!

Reminds me of our visit to Paris:
At the Arc de Triomphe I read aloud to my wife the names of all the battles that the glorious French troups won – strange that all of the cities mentioned there were very far away from France …

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[…] – LÁSZLÓ BOGDÁN IS STILL THE ROMA MIRACLE WORKER OF CSERDI. In: The Hungarian Spectrum. 16.08.2017. http://hungarianspectrum.org/2017/08/16/laszlo-bogdan-is-still-the-roma-miracle-worker-of-cserdi/ […]

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