MSZP’s “generous offer” rejected

Let’s continue with party politics, especially since yesterday the socialists came out with an “extremely generous offer.” What is the party’s proposal? For the complete unity of the democratic forces, MSZP is ready to evenly share the 98 member party list with all parties that have a measurable following. Thus, on the basis of the opinion polls by the Republikon Intézet and Závecz Research Institute over the last six months, DK would receive 15%, LMP 13%, Momentum 8%, Együtt 6%, Liberals 3%, and Párbeszéd 2% of the available places. The offer was further sweetened by a more magnanimous allocation of the most desirable positions on the list. The first 32 places are the most coveted, 25 of which went to MSZP in 2014. This time these 32 places would be halved between MSZP and the others. According to István Botka, that would guarantee parliamentary representation to all parties. LMP and DK would likely have large enough representations to form their own delegations (frakció). Mind you, as things stand now, these two parties would be able to achieve this goal without Botka’s scheme.

The MSZP politicians who came up with this plan–István Botka, Gyula Molnár, and István Hiller–were convinced that their offer was so attractive that it was practically impossible to refuse. They urged the other party leaders to take their time to consider the offer seriously. The public announcement of MSZP’s latest scheme was accompanied by letters to each party’s top leadership. Zoom, an internet news site, got hold of the letter that was sent to the Demokratikus Koalíció, which didn’t impress the DK leadership. The letter can be divided into two parts. The first is about the general desirability of Botka’s proposal of having common candidates in 106 electoral districts and a common party list. The second was tailored to the specifics of DK. The stumbling block in this case is the person of Ferenc Gyurcsány, whose name, according to László Botka, should not be on the common list, allegedly because of his unpopularity. By way of compensation, Botka offered Gyurcsány Budapest’s District XV, which “is a DK success story with László Hajdu as DK mayor” where he could easily win. In this way his place in parliament would be ensured. The socialists urged DK’s politicians to “stop the pseudo-debates” and get to work.

The announcement of the “generous offer”

According to DK’s spokesman, the proposal doesn’t contain anything new. The sticking point is MSZP’s meddling in DK’s internal affairs with its insistence on the party chairman’s exclusion from the common list. In order to make certain that the party leaders’ hands are tied, a couple of weeks ago more than 70% of the approximately 9,000 full-fledged DK members voted to reject any negotiations with any other party whose condition is the exclusion of Gyurcsány from the common list. Apparently, 94% of those party members who participated voted with a resounding “no.”

Péter Juhász, chairman of Együtt, told Magyar Nemzet that Botka’s proposal is not new to him, but his party doesn’t believe in a single common list in the first place. Moreover, he is in the process of working out a list with those parties that did not exist prior to 2010. They are Együtt, Párbeszéd, LMP, and Momentum. These parties would have their own common candidates in all 106 districts. Unfortunately for Juhász, neither LMP nor Momentum shows much interest in his scheme.

LMP, as usual, said that the presidium will consider the proposal but most likely will reject it. The party spokesman indicated that László Botka had already approached them with a “generous offer” which they had rejected. As he put it, “one cannot remove Viktor Orbán with the actors of the past and the parties of the past which bear responsibility for the past 30 years.”

Momentum also rejected the offer. As far as they are concerned, there is no possibility of any cooperation with the socialists. “What Botka offers now is what Mesterházy offered in 2014. We still bear the brunt of the result of that so-called cooperation.” Moreover, Momentum’s participation in politics is not for the goal of gaining parliamentary seats but for higher ideals. They cannot be bought this way, they insisted.

Thus, as far as I can see, Botka’s proposal is dead in the water. Yet, according to Magyar Nemzet, MSZP still insists on having talks with DK, although Botka refuses to sit down with Ferenc Gyurcsány. Thus, Gyula Molnár and István Hiller will be the emissaries who will try to convince Gyurcsány to accept the offer. I think they could save themselves a trip because DK’s leadership as well as its members are adamant that no outsider has any right to interfere in the party’s internal affairs.

The Závecz Research Institute was on hand to conduct a quickie poll on the reception of MSZP’s latest offer. Two-thirds of the respondents responded favorably to the “generous offer.” After all, people are sick and tired of all the party strife. They have been waiting for more than half a year for Botka to move toward closer relations with the other parties. Unfortunately, these instant polls don’t tell us much, especially since Fidesz voters are also represented in the sample. It is also doubtful that the respondents knew much about the details of the proposal.

There is a lot to criticize about the way in which this offer was introduced. István Botka has the bad habit of making announcements without first discussing them with the people who will have to consider them. This time was no different. MSZP Chairman Gyula Molnár, in an interview with Egon Rónai of ATV, was at a loss to explain the lack of prior discussions with the parties, which are supposed to be part of the arrangement. Molnár tried to avoid the subject by saying “let’s not get into this.” When Rónai insisted, he couldn’t give a rational answer to this total lack of communication with the other party leaders. At about the same time that Rónai was trying to get a straight answer from Molnár, Olga Kálmán was talking to István Botka. Kálmán pressed him about the differences between the 2014 common list and his proposed 2018 one, without much success. Kálmán’s question about whether he would cede his place to another party’s candidate if that would be politically more desirable surprised him. He responded that he is the most experienced of all candidates and that Bernadett Szél and Gergely Karácsony “will receive important positions,” I assume in the next government which he envisages as a coalition.

György Jánosi, former deputy chairman of MSZP, wrote the following on his Facebook page about Botka’s offer. He wanted to know why the MSZP party brass didn’t share their far-reaching ideas with their hoped-for partners. He compared the manner of announcing the plan to a bone tossed from the table of the lords that the middle-sized or small parties can fight over. “It seems that László Botka and MSZP haven’t learned anything. Who will stop this flying blind? I’m afraid, no one. They don’t realize that this party has ceased to be a party that could offer a new government to this country.” Bitter words from a formerly important MSZP politician.

September 26, 2017
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Member

There is a lack of “political intelligence” and decency among Hungarian politicians and many of them are outright stupid and callous, immoral loathsome people.
They all seem to concentrate on future positions for themselves they may get IF they are voted in, so they could stake out their place around the table where they would divide the loot. Pure moral and financial corruption rules Hungarian politics and there is no intention to do anything good for the average voter, except the brown nosing followers and helpers.
“Toute nation a le gouvernement qu’elle mérite.” Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821)
“Every nation has the government which it is fit for.” (not necessarily what it deserves)

exTor
Guest

EVERY COUNTRY GETS THE
GOVERNMENT IT DESERVES

comment image

Joseph de Maistre [1753–1821] is a man of many quotes. Too much of a Godist for me –”Wherever an altar is found there exists civilization.”– an ‘appropriate’ thought, no doubt, following yesterday’s Alabama-election win of a raving evangelical [Roy Moore] over a Trump-supported incumbent [Luther Strange], Joseph de Maistre might well have proffered this morsel of thought for Botka, Gyurcsány, Juhász, Karácsony, etal.

THERE IS NO PHILOSOPHY WITHOUT
THE ART OF IGNORING OBJECTIONS

MAGYARKOZÓ

Ferenc
Guest

OT-Re: “Wherever an altar is found there exists civilization.” (de Maistre quote)
Herewith a picture of a Dogon altar (Mali)comment image
Having visited their land many years ago, I consider the Dogon a civilized people! Just different from the society I grew up and still live in…
I suggest following improvement of above statement:
“Wherever an altar is found, there live(d) people trying to believe in something.”
source of picture: http://wardschumaker.blogspot.nl/2015/08/dancing-with-dogon.html

exTor
Guest

I too have a fascination for the Dogon, Ferenc.

My Joseph de Maistre quote reflects my antireligion
bias suigeneris, in other words, belief in a ‘greater
being’. Religionists, however, can impart a lot of
good, as in the case of missionaries in Africa
who brought Western medicine and learning
to various populations. Those are pluses.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Ferenc
Guest

OK exTor, it was just the ‘altar’ quote which set me off.
Furthermore I have a lot of believes, but not in any religion…
And let’s not forget that religion itself isn’t doing anything, it’s PEOPLE who do good (or bad…)

Back to the subject here:
I don’t know anymore what to believe in for Hungary, I can only hope and try to help that ‘the worst’ is not to come soon…

Guest

This problem with “beliefs” always reminds me of my grandmother – who was visited by the local Catholic priest who tried to order her to not give her daughter to this protestant heretic (you guessed it or read it here before: my parents). When asked about her beliefs she used to say:
I believe that a pound of good meat makes a good soup!

Back to the topic:
It’s intersting and funny in a way that Hungarian voters seem to have no problem with corruption, it’s a way of life. As long as you have “values” which you believe in …
In a democratic country many/most of the Hungarian politicians would have left the field or even be in jail!
Horrible!
But life goes on, people struggle, a few make it, the vast majority is forgotten …

exTor
Guest

Not quite right, wolfi. The ‘Protestant heretic’ was your father only, not both your parents. Presumably your mother was a good Catholic girl.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Guest

I wrote “this protestant heretic” – that’s one …
My mother btw never went to Catholic church again, at least in the time I remember …
Neither did we children – after being “confirmed” at 14 years, my parents didn’t complain though the small town where we grew up was rather “Christian” …
We just had a kind of school reunion (after 55 years) and everybody agreed that most of our teachers had been “Clerical Fascists” – how happy we were when we left the Gymnasium at 18 years for the liberal life at the university.

wrfree
Guest

Re:
‘Orban is featured in this issue of the US journal Foreign Affairs. http://www.foreignaffairs.com: Europe’s Populist Surge | Foreign Affairs’

Happened to to come across the stat that about 8 out of 10 young Magyars want the connection to the EU. It’s a ‘good thing’.

Now if the difficult and sensitive parties can understand and emphasize ‘political intelligence’ in themselves and in those voters well perhaps that would be a ‘good thing’ too. Empathy can do wonders.

Nicole
Guest

I don’t understand. I’ve read here almost nothing but criticism about Botka in general and specifically about how he/MSZP haven’t reach out to other parties. But now that they have, they’re still being criticized, this time for apparently doing it the wrong way. It doesn’t seem that this problem on the ‘left/liberal even center’ side of politics is all his fault. He can’t continually be personally blamed for the fact that these politicians and their tribes continue to fail to see the bigger picture and only think about their own little popularity contests.

Member

Agreed.

bimbi
Guest

“An extremely generous offer”

That is already a hackneyed phrase in today’s European politics. Mrs. May tried it out on the EU as part of her “negotiation” strategy with the EU over Brexit regarding the status of EU citizens in Britain post-Brexit. The EU was singularly unimpressed.

Now comes Mr. Botka with his (self-described) e.g.o. delivered ex- cathedra. Another case of a lead balloon.

They just don’t get it, do they? Out of touch with political realities. The key, of course, is in the utterly self-defeating adjectives: “Extremely generous”. Silly.

exTor
Guest

comment image

Botka excathedra? I like it, bimbi.
Goes with one’s ego’s EGO.

MAGYARKOZÓ

bimbi
Guest

OT, but…

George Soros is now the go-to bogey man of the world’s loony Right:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/27/why-is-george-soros-being-dragged-into-the-same-sex-marriage-debate

Guest

Is this another idea of our Australian village idiot latefor?

As Einstein is supposed to have said:
Human stupidity is infinite …

Observer
Guest

Alex K

It seems we may never know who’s assumptions are true as the dem side won’t get to that stage.

Member

You never know. I suppose it is possible that every single Fidesz candidate will get kidnapped by a UFO the day before the election, meaning their names would have to be removed from the ballots.

wrfree
Guest

And if I may say their names should be put Voyager.-like so in that some dark corner of the universe great light years out future aliens reprising Asimov’s ‘Foundation’ will then know the culprits in the decline of civilization on a rock in the Milky Way. 😎

Guest

Rather OT:
Asimov is still one of my favourite SF authors – also enjoyed his autobiograhies.

And he was a very outspoken “leftist” and humanist ( i e atheist, president of the US Humanists even) and clearly spoke against the US involvment in Vietnam e g!

Like George R R Martin …

Observer
Guest

Eva,

Istvan Botka?

exTor
Guest

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István Botka seems to have crept into your brain, Éva.
There are 5 references to that person in this article
and 2 references to István Botka in another:

http://hungarianspectrum.org/2017/08/30/laszlo-botka-is-on-the-campaign-trail-with-some-hiccups

The counts include the end-of-article tags.

MAGYARKOZÓ

NWO
Guest

The way MSZP “rolled out” this proposal and whether the spots on the common list are allocated fairly is at this time beside the point. As Gyula Bognar wrote, in the end, the opposition politicians seem to care far more about their individual positions (even in opposition) than actually winning an election. A single list/coalition will not win the opposition the election, but without it the chance of winning or getting close is in 0%. We should not be surprised by the vanity and selfishness of the political class. It is just sad to watch this movie replayed over and over.

bimbi
Guest

OT, but…

Recently, anonymous but realistic ads have started to appear in Budapest showing Orbán, the Chief Thief, and his Fidesz friends with the caption: “ÖK a Félelem” and below: “MI a Remény” –
(THEY are Fear, WE are Hope)

but now the Fidesz Fradi hooligans have been out on the street defacing them by painting them over, thereby giving a vivid comment on the notion of “free speech” in Hungary today.

Dictatorship or Democracy? – Choose!

LwiiH
Guest

As I have said in the past, lists are wrong, they reverse the lines of responsibility towards the party leadership. If Gy wants to sit in parliament he should be elected, not appointed. Same goes with everyone else.

exTor
Guest

comment image

https://444.hu/2017/09/27/simicska-lajos-bejelentette-hogy-tobbet-ad-helyet-politikai-reklamoknak

Contrary to the URL, the actual headline is:
Simicska Lajos bejelentette, hogy többet
nem ad helyet politikai reklámoknak

Change-of-heart re Viktor Orbán?

MAGYARKOZÓ

Tyrker
Guest

Not so much a change of heart as an admission of defeat. Simicska used to think that by turning his media empire against Orbán and providing support for Jobbik, he can cause Fidesz to lose the general election scheduled for 2018. Things have not worked out that way. His media empire is producing losses to the tune of several billions of forints and Jobbik is getting nowhere. Fidesz is set to win next year’s elections, and Simicska knows this. From his point of view, there is no point in putting any more money or effort into a political venture that is never going to turn profitable (in any sense of the word). Rumour has it that he is preparing to leave the country.

exTor
Guest

I haven’t yet read the article, Tyrker. Your reasoning sounds off. Why should Simicska pack it in this soon, a half year before the April 2018 election? Seems counterproductive. It’s way too soon to try to determine the efficacy of any antiOrbán/antiFidesz efforts. Besides, how much can it cost for someone who actually owns a whole bunch of billboards?

Fidesz will likely win the election, however a two-thirds majority might be a bit much to expect, however one never knows in voting how things will turn out. Very few (aside from Ann Coulter) thought that Donald Trump would become the next US prez.

comment image

As for Simicska hightailing it out of Magyarland, that may not be a bad idea if he’s got a bunch of malfeasances to hide. Perhaps he’s expecting to be offed [assassinated] in Hungary. Never know with those Fidesz hitmen.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Observer
Guest

exTor

The legal counsel of City Poster (Simicska owned) explained the statement: these are not ads of any political party, but informative statements to the public, hence not subject to the latest poster regulations amendment (ban).

In the Orban mafia state however, the law applies when the gov says so – the gov admin offices (Kormàny hivatal) continue to illegally remove the posters, committing criminal infringement of private property and of the freedom of expression.

exTor
Guest

Somebody please identify the person listed as ‘kötvényes’
and please explain the meaning of the word ‘kötvényes’
within the context of the Fidesz/Orbán corruption.

MAGYARKOZÓ

Ferenc
Guest

Rogan A., the man behind the ‘Residency Bonds’ [= kötvények] Business with connected (offshore?) money laundring.
Details through http://hungarianspectrum.org/tag/residency-bonds/

PS: Mr…? …Bonds… Antal Bonds [cocktails: bbrrr… not stirred nor shaken…]

Marty
Guest
The grand narrative of the Hungarian left-wing is still about petty infighting and impotence when the narrative of Fidesz is all about taking tough decisions warranted by a tough world and dealing with real (made up, sure, but seemingly real) issues. As the late Arthur Finkelstein smartly observed between the corrupt and the stupid people choose the corrupt. This rule always holds because what Finkelstein left unsaid was that even the stupid are seen as corrupt. Just today 444.hu published a nice article about how MSZP – but of course – has been cooperating with Fidesz in district 9 to loot the municipality. Just as MSZP and Fidesz have been doing it in district 5 and elsewhere in Budapest. MSZP is cheap and Fidesz knows who to play those grey, hollow Socialists. Why would anybody want stupid and corrupt parties to return? To continue this farce while in government? I think the (formerly) left-wing/liberal voters will simply not vote. They won’t support corrupt and impotent parties. (It will naturally mean Fidesz will have 2/3s because its own voters will vote.) The left-wing has to come up with something radical, something visionary, something out of the box that presents a clear… Read more »
petofi
Guest

re: “infighting”

Lest we forget, Viktor the Magnificent is especially good placing some honey (ie. gelt) where it will do the most good. And, in Hungarian politics,
buying off one or two key elements of the Grand Coalition, is all it takes for the beehive to go nuts…

Guest

Petofi, you mean “Geld” aka Kies, Penunzen, dough … ?

Observer
Guest

Marty

The Fid (and partially your) narrative has some big, big holes: as far as CORRUPTION and INCOMPETENCE are concerned the Orban regime is an all time champion. Nobody comes close in Europe in the first and few can compete in the second.
With this ignorant, primitive and currupt regime Hungary is doomed to continue the backsliding, watch Bulgaria and Albania.
Nothing can possibly be worse at this moment here.

Guest

“.,.,.Ferenc Gyurcsány, whose name, according to László Botka, should not be on the common list, allegedly because of his unpopularity.”

Botka is generously offering another party help in choosing their candidates. Why give DK such an offer that they can only refuse?

Ferenc
Guest

Re-phrasing a quote from the first comment of this post, I like to give the following question:
“Do all people get the information from the media, they deserve?”comment image

Yesterday regional MediaWorks papers had (at least) one same page, 444! reported about it – https://444.hu/2017/09/27/egy-atlagos-nap-a-megyei-lapok-politika-rovataban
This got me checking first the main article “Nyugat-Európa retteg” (Western Europe is terrified) and then all other I could decipher. Herewith links to those:
https://www.veol.hu/orszag-vilag/egyre-tobb-unios-orszagban-kritikusak-az-allapotok-2-2130263/
https://www.heol.hu/orszag-vilag/extra-beremeles-rendvedelmi-dolgozoknak-875969/
https://www.duol.hu/orszag-vilag/javulnak-kozteruleti-bunuldozesi-statisztikak-2071149/
https://www.szoljon.hu/orszag-vilag/107-milliard-jut-biztonsagra-842907/

One thing I found very peculiar on all those pages, but as that might be my oversensitivity I don’t give that now, and ask from those here interested to check the pages themselves and comment your own findings.

Ferenc
Guest

Nobody replied yet, herewith what I found very very peculiar:
at the bottom of each of the above articles following text:
“Tématámogatás. Készült Magyarország Kormánya támogatásával.”
“Topic support. Made with support of the Hungarian Government.”

My reaction: What’s this? What does this mean? The Hungarian government is sponsoring specific articles in certain ‘independent’ (regional) newspapers?
PS: don’t know if same text is also on paper version,
on picture I only noticed “MediaWorks-összeállítás” [MediaWorks-set-up] and “kozpontiszerkesztoseg-email” [central editorial room-email]…

Observer
Guest

Ferenc

Nothing peculiar, rather typical: the Orban mafia took over the local papers with embezzled money, supports them with public “advertising” to ensure fat profits for the front men. Whan the latter are not fat enough more taxpayers money is fed as direct sponsorship.
You don’t expect the Orban thieves to risk their own money, it’s the suckers who pay.

Ferenc
Guest

To me it stays peculiar.
It might be typical for OV&Co, but than it is (another) PROOF that at heart they are NOT democratic!!
What in my opinion is happening here is not so much financial supporting, but collective publishing of articles only after receiving governmental approval of the contents!! When did this happen before in Hungary? 1950-1989? or more times?

Observer
Guest

It’s both financial and political.
The political part however is uniquely blatant:
– in communist Hungary the press was not free, but the various editors toed the party line in their own words,
– in Orbanistan the party distributes copies to be published, with the same titles and pics, no pretense for independent thought or opinion.

Member

After reading the above post by Eva, does anyone still think these chuckleheads can govern together?

Marty
Guest

An interesting poll (interesting because it wasn’t conducted by a politically connected polling company but by other institutions as part of of a bigger research project) on young ethnic Hungarians living in the neighboring countries.

The result: 50% are self-described right-wing, 30% centrist and 20% left-wing.

In Slovakia (among Hungarian kids) there are only 16% who identify as left wing but 57% as right wing which is a ratio of 1:3.

This is another polls which strengthens the suspicion that young Hungarian voters overwhelmingly identify as right-wing.

This would be an uphill battle even in a democracy. But the Hungarian left-wing doesn’t offer anything to young people. It’s not a surprise that younger voters who are in an age when they are anyway actively seeking an identity and a community (especially minority kids) cannot find anything attractive in hapless and hollow lefties.

http://index.hu/tudomany/2017/09/27/karpatalja_hataron_tuli_magyar_anyanyelv_nyelvi_jogok_nemzetiseg_kisebbseg_ukrajna/

Guest

I also was astonished to hear from people (young and old Hungarians who work in the West) that they are really nationalist, some admitted voting for Jobbik. Is this based on a kind of inferiority complex, comparing themselves to the “Western elite” and claiming that they are “better” – at least in their own minds?
And they regular mention “values” – of course those “values” of the past, tradition, family, whatever …

Marty
Guest
As you know the ethnically Turkish Germans living in Germany are significantly more pro-Erdogan than the Turkish living in Turkey. Living in Germany for decades did not cause them to be any more democratic or liberal – most probably the Turkish immigrants were more conservative to begin with and they resisted assimilation in this regard . And since the Turkish guest workers feel that they were looked down upon a nationalist strongmen can provide them with some self-esteem (see Orban). Hungarians living abroad are also not leftist or liberal. Far from it. They are mostly white working class people from rural regions. They have to cope with a serious identity issue and they also have zero tolerance for welfare and generosity (ie. lefty approaches in social matters) when they themselves had to face so much difficulty and make so many sacrifices. The global left – except for a few example like Corby’s Labour – is apparently unable to provide the voters with “values”. The nationalism of the Hungarian voters owes much more to the failures of the left-wing (even if Hungary cannot be considered a democracy) than to the success of the right-wing. The “really existing left-wing” is just devoid… Read more »
Ferenc
Guest

So which “other” ‘grand narrative’ do you or (according to you) ‘the voters’ find to be attractive or at least respectable?

Marty
Guest

1. That Hungary and Europe are under siege (by migrants, Soros, Brussels, multinational companies, liberals, jews, the US etc.) and must be defended t by a tough leader hrough steadfast resistance. Nothing less than the survival of the nation is at stake, we can’t take chances with wusses at the helm.

2. That Hungary must defend itself against liberal developments like gays, gender issues, migrants etc. by focusing on traditional family values which are being undermined by bureaucrats/liberals originating from the terminally declining West.

3. That there’s work for everyone and so no social transfer whatsoever is necessary because disadvantaged people (aka the roma) don’t deserve taxpayers’ money.

Given the propaganda and inherent biases in many people these narratives seem natural, the baseline.

Ferenc
Guest

1+2: possible attractive for some, but imho respectable for nobody
3: not true, so a lie

“these narratives seem natural”, please? …gimme a break!! 90% of what you write is forced on the people, the question is how that forcing can be broken and the forced stuff refuted

propaganda, yes HU is the only EU country with such a ministry!! question: what in your opinion is the best policy against propaganda?

PS: example of ‘defending the nation against…’: http://hvg.hu/itthon/20170927_szomaliai_menedekkerok_ausztria_magyaroroszag

Marty
Guest
Ferenc, I may have used wrong words or you misunderstood me. And this is a very complex issue which is hard to talk about as we talk about subjective evaluations of average voters (unlike us who are the elite). The Fidsznik narratives – after so much propaganda and using inherent biases, existing hatred etc. – feel natural, logical, common sense to the voters. To counter that, the left-wing would have to come up with something that is attractive or something that average voters could at least respect. Average voters may decide such leftist narrative is not for them at the moment (because e.g. now the migrant issue in their view is more important than dealing with inequality or corruption or giving equal chances for all citizens or whatever) but at least they should find that the story is “relatable” and that the values implied by that leftist story can be respected. Fidesz’s narrative about the “nation under siege that must be defended” has many values which can be and are respected by average folks. For example the importance of the nation as a conception and a living community vs. liberal globalization, that the traditional Hungarian values (that a wedding is… Read more »
Guest

Marty, come on!
If the migrant issue in their view is more important than dealing with inequality or corruption or giving equal chances for all citizens when most of them have never even seen a refugee (except on tv) then good riddance Hungary!
Get lost from civilised Europe and join Putin’s Eurasian Union or whatever!

PS:
See also my invitation on the Orbán Plan.

Guest

And back to reality – Let’s compare Hungary with my home country Baden Württemberg:
We Schwabs already have a Green prime minister – with Mrs Merkel’s party CDU as a junior partner in the coalition …

Our GDP in 2016 (10.5 million people) was 476 billion € while Hungary’s (with 9.8 million people) was 124 billion – now go figure!
Fifty years ago the CDU was in majority – as I’ve often said: The political system in Hungary is fifty years behind the civilised West …

Member

What about the nordic countries?

Guest

The Turks are in a backwards spiral, yes – but I don’t know why. Maybe Hungary will have the same experience? Tough luck!
A bit OT:
On one of my first holidays in Turkey (more than 40 years ago) a young Turkish woman already told me that – we shouldn’t believe that all Turks were like those poor ignorant “guest workers” from Anatolia …
Still, one of the leaders of our Green party is Cem Özdemir, son of Turkish guest workers and there are Turkish union leaders too.

Ivan
Guest

I believe I’ve seen reports that Hungarian expats, at least in the UK, are generally critical of Fidesz. As discussed here previously, this is probably why voting for expats in the West is made so difficult.

Jobbik’s attempt to hold a rally in London before the 2014 elections ended in tears (with Hungarians among the anti-fascist protesters): https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/26/leader-hungarian-jobbik-rally-london.

petofi
Guest

@ wolfi7777

Try the opposite: it means that Hungarians suffer from monstrous inferiority…

petofi
Guest

All this poll means is that the KGB has passed on some useful algorithms
to the Hunkies…

Tyrker
Guest

According to Medián’s latest public opinion poll, only 4 parties would make it into Parliament if the elections were held “this Sunday”: Fidesz, Jobbik, MSZP and LMP (with LMP being the only opposition party to have managed to significantly expand their base). DK and the rest are below the 5% threshold.

Observer
Guest

I’ll bet u 100 EUR that DK is in with 6-7%.

Marty
Guest

Median’s (which is the more reliable pollster in Hungary) most recent numbers are nothing short of terrible for all opposition parties except for LMP which seems to be gaining some voters.

Fidesz – with such unbelievable corruption and incompetence – is seemingly gaining significant ground and getting more popular. Fidesz seems to have 36% of the total population now behind it which is a lot.

I estimated Fidesz between 20-25% in reality at about six-nine months ago but a marked increase is plausible to be honest, even if I think 36% is exaggerated. But in rural regions the “communists” (as any denomination of left-wing is called) are basically finished in my experience.

http://hvg.hu/itthon/20170927_Median_Melyponton_az_MSZP_a_Jobbik_kozel_ketszer_olyan_eros

Ferenc
Guest

Don’t know if Median more reliable or not, but I like to compare oranges with oranges, so herewith the latest two Median polls I could find (2017.Jun and Sep, both through hvg.hu)
Median: F – J – M – D – L – nincs
2017.06: 34 – 13 – 8 – 4 – 3 – 33%
2017.09: 36 – 12 – 7 – 3 – 5 – 31%
sources:
http://hvg.hu/itthon/201726_medianfelmeres_tobb_apart_nelkuli
http://hvg.hu/itthon/20170927_Median_Melyponton_az_MSZP_a_Jobbik_kozel_ketszer_olyan_eros

All in all no serious changes during the 3 summer months, so now:
LET’S BEGIN AGAIN, BEGIN THE BEGIN!!
(quote from REM – Lifes Rich Pageant, 1986 album,
still remember where I heard the first notes!!)

Marty
Guest

Could CEU move to Bratislava which is basically the outskirts of Vienna?

Hope not, but the Slovaks like foreign investors and they are just much smarter politicians than Hungarians.

https://444.hu/2017/09/27/sorossal-talalkozott-mult-heten-a-szlovak-allamfo

Sackhoes Contributor
Guest

I find it amazing that even now, after so many years, Ferenc Gyurcsany remains on the scene and that he is still viewed as a stumbling block. Why does he not realize he is too controversial to be in a compromise political opposition. I don’t think that politicians in the West keep hanging around like this, especially not after his own party forced him out from the Prime Minister’s position.

Somehow I find that opposition politicians would rather rule their small parties, than come to power. Why? What do they have to gain?

Observer
Guest

SC

I find it amazing that after FGy/DK have been around for so many years (surviving brutal Fid assaults, MSZP and LMP anymosity and financial starvation) some still deny reality. And mentioning “controversial” while Orban is still here …

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