That’s one way to win an election–Eliminate the opposition

Two months ago, on October 7, I wrote a lengthy post about “another attempt to silence Jobbik.” In that article I explained in great detail the manner in which the Állami Számvevőszék (State Accounting Office/ÁSZ) normally audits political parties and that 2017 is the year that the most recent audits would take place, with ÁSZ checking the books for 2015-2016. The deadline for submitting the paperwork was October 3. However, on September 28, Jobbik was informed that ÁSZ is also interested in the financial affairs of the party during the first six months of 2017. This was an unheard-of demand in the 27-year history of ÁSZ. Jobbik was told that the auditors would arrive the next day, a Friday, although Jobbik informed them that the office would be not open that day. Jobbik asked for a postponement until October 2. The request was not granted, although the date was before the October 3 deadline. All attempts to file the documentation failed. The documents couldn’t be sent electronically, and when Jobbik officials hand-delivered them, ÁSZ refused to accept them. There were numerous signs indicating that the whole scenario had been carefully orchestrated from above. The head of ÁSZ is a former Fidesz member of parliament. His appointment on July 5, 2010 was one of the first to signal that all allegedly independent organs will be led by former Fidesz politicians.

At that time it was only LMP that came to Jobbik’s rescue. The party issued a statement deploring “the campaign against representative democracy,” and it also announced that it will ask TASZ, Hungary’s Civil Liberties Union, to provide legal aid to Jobbik. I don’t know whether anything came of TASZ’s legal assistance because I haven’t seen any public discussion of the case in the last two months.

Fidesz’s gift to Jobbik was delivered yesterday, the day when good children are supposed to get presents from Santa Claus. I wouldn’t be surprised if this whole rotten affair was cynically planned this way. Viktor Orbán and his loyal criminals are capable of such a sick “joke.”

The billboard responsible for the present predicament of Jobbik

Jobbik was fined 331 million forints, and it will be docked another 331 million from the funds that the party is supposed to get from the budget this year. That amounts to over $2.4 million. The reason? Jobbik is charged with acquiring surfaces for its billboards below “market price,” which is the price either Fidesz or Viktor Orbán decided was the market price. In a true market economy, the price of goods is arrived at through negotiations between seller and buyer. That’s the first problem. The second problem is that ÁSZ didn’t look at the actual documentation on the basis of which it arrived at its verdict.

Jobbik has no 331 million forints in its bank account, and therefore it claims that under these circumstances it simply cannot compete fairly or perhaps not at all in the election campaign that will be officially launched very soon. Even if Jobbik asked for backing from its supporters, the money it received would go straight to ÁSZ. The government’s goal is clear: to cripple Jobbik, which at the moment is the largest opposition party. If Viktor Orbán manages to get rid of Jobbik, he will have to face only the highly fractured left-of-center parties, which are still negotiating about how to face Fidesz in the coming election. Although at the moment these parties have no intention of cooperating with Jobbik, Viktor Orbán is likely still worried about the possibility that such a collaboration might materialize, which could be a serious threat to his electoral chances. If Fidesz gets rid of Jobbik, however, it can kill two birds with one stone. The party removes a serious rival while abroad it can explain that Fidesz, which is a “conservative,” “right-of-center” party, managed to eliminate a far-right and dangerous group. Few people are aware of the fact that by now Fidesz is farther to the right than Jobbik and, what is more important, that Jobbik poses less of a threat to Hungarian democracy than the governing party, with all the political, economic, and military might at its disposal.

Jobbik’s internet newspaper, Alfahír, made an emotional appeal to the citizens of the country. First, the party turned to those liberal and leftist voters who consider Jobbik a far-right, racist, Nazi party. The author of the article claims that he understands their feelings because he himself felt the same kind of antagonism toward Soros and his supporters. But once he saw what the government did to Central European University and asked himself who the next victim will be, he changed his mind. What will happen if all opposing views are silenced? The author repeated this message for former Fidesz voters who, he states, surely didn’t vote in 2010 or 2014 for a one-party system.

The left-of-center parties more or less lined up in their condemnation of Fidesz’s attempt to annihilate Jobbik. Viktor Szigetvári of Együtt even filed charges against Fidesz, targeting its own advertising budget during the 2010 and 2014 election campaigns. The only exception seems to be Momentum, which will stand by Jobbik only if it receives answers to several questions. Momentum’s first concern seems to be the person of Béla Kovács. The case against him for alleged espionage has been in limbo for four years. Somewhat suspiciously, it was a couple of days ago that at last the prosecutors decided to charge him with espionage. Momentum inquired why Jobbik didn’t investigate Kovács’s case in the last four years. Momentum’s leaders also want to know whether Jobbik received any money from Russia through Béla Kovács. Finally, how did Jobbik have enough money to lease and later purchase several thousand billboard spaces? While the first two questions are legitimate, with the question about the billboards Momentum is essentially siding with Fidesz.

Two prominent lawyers offered their opinions about what Jobbik can do under the circumstances. Jobbik’s room to maneuver is small. There is no opportunity to appeal the verdict. András Schiffer looks at the government’s attack on Jobbik as “the beginning of the end of the multi-party system in Hungary.” The government was able to use this “trick” because the law on party financing, written 28 years ago, is most likely unconstitutional. “Nowhere [in the law] are there any procedural safeguards or the possibility of redress when the validation of fundamental rights and one of the elements of democratic governance is violated.” According to Schiffer, one possibility is for Jobbik to immediately turn to the constitutional court for an opinion. The other is for all opposition parliamentary delegations, in a joint action, to do the same. György Magyar, who by the way recently served as Lajos Simicska’s lawyer, suggests a slightly different route. Jobbik should ask for a suspension of enforcement from the courts, which in turn could go to the constitutional court.

Otherwise, after temporary gloom in Jobbik circles, by tonight Vona regained his composure and made a fiery announcement on Hír TV. The party will try to collect money, and he doesn’t preclude the possibility of asking Jobbik’s supporters to go out on the streets. He sees “a storm of indignation” in all walks of life, not just among the party faithful. In his opinion, there are only two possibilities: either Orbán wins, and that’s the end of democracy in Hungary, or Jobbik “in alliance with people” who want to remove the government from power “will sweep this government away.” He then directly addressed Viktor Orbán: “Listen Viktor, you corrupt dictator. If you think that I or we are afraid of you, you are wrong. I am not afraid of you, and Jobbik is not afraid of Fidesz, and I see that the people are not afraid either. You’re the one who should be afraid. You thought that 2017 would be the year of insurgence, but you were wrong. 2018 will be the year of rebellion that will drive you away and will make you accountable. Be prepared!”

Jobbik has a large following, and the government’s dirty trick might backfire. It might turn out to be dangerous to the health of Fidesz and Viktor Orbán.

December 7, 2017
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Member

Now, that Jobbik, once the wolfi has become the victim and the other opposition parties must fear to encounter a similar fate, the need to fight together the possibly last fight might get clear to all of them.

It is time to recognize the real enemy.

Guest

Winston, I hope this was just a silly spelling mistake … 🙂
Jobbik, once the wolfi
And I also hope this unbelievable Fidesz plan will backfire!
Can’t the EU or the European Courts get involved in this?

Member

The Wolfi was intended, but meant to be a joke. Didn’t want to insult you.
Actually I like wolfis. We had a dog, that looked like a wolf and we used to call her Wolfi.

Guest

No problem!
Since we’re rather OT already:
My English friends usually write my name as Wolfe while the Jewish friends write “Wolfie” … 🙂

I’ve got many Science Fiction books signed to me by the authors with these different names …

wrfree
Guest

Speaking of sci-fi at this point I’d think the ocean in ‘Solaris’ has more sentient ‘beings’ living in it than in the heads of some in the leading lights of government.😎

Jean P
Guest

Orban who runs an incessant election campaign with the taxpayers money needs an opposition without a material chance of winning. It is no use to the opposition to take part in this election charade.

Marty
Guest

Just a tidbit:

In the Miskolc local electoral district people support Fidesz’ already named individual candidate 50%, Jobbik’s candidate 24% and all the rest MSZP, DK, LMP etc. have together 26%. The problem is that not all MSZPniks would vote for the Jobbik candidate and vica versa (though since many Jobbikniks are former MSZP voters more Jobbik voters would vote for MSZP, ie. their former party, than the other way round). So even if there’s one single candidate (so assuming no LMP, no separate Momentum etc.) it’s questionable he can win (it’s safe to assume that no woman can win in Miskolc) against Fidesz’ candidate. Miskolc used to be a heavy industry working class place which is now 75% or higher right wing – the left wing has nothing to say to them. Also in BAZ County (the seat of which is Miskolc) the gipsy issue is absolutely the top issue and voters don’t feel the left can offer anything in that regard. They are done with the human rights discourse.

bimbi
Guest
So, the Fonök, the BOSS, strikes back. He was deeply wounded by the initial glaring truths of the Jobbik ad. campaign – YOU work, THEY steal. Now he resorts to stark vengeance in defence of himself, his Strawman, his Liar and his Bondholder with a cynical and draconian measure. Fidesz political chicanery writ large once again. They are rightly described as “GENGSZTEREK” Now Jobbik suffers from the politics that set out to defame and freeze out CEU – change the law and then punish the perceived offender for non-compliance. I too watched Five-a-Side Szijjarto testifying before the EU parliamentary session on the strangling of democracy in Hungary with his lies and evasions and watched the whole session drag on to its conclusion – draft report in March, revised report in June, vote (?) in September, except they forgot to say which year. Orbán knows he has little to fear from that quarter. This action by the government against Jobbik is a flagrant attack on the foundations of democracy in Hungary and the Left – all of the little-bitty parties – had better support Jobbik to fight it – not because they support Jobbik policies but because they support the survival… Read more »
Member

Aladar Horvath, longtime Gypsy activist, just threw his weight behind calls to stand with Jobbik against Fidesz’s attacks. He posted this article on his Facebook page: https://merce.hu/2017/12/07/nem-a-jobbikert-hanem-magunkert-a-partallam-ellen/

Ferenc
Guest
To me it seems OV&Co are well aware and therefore most likely well prepared for things to happen because of their use of the State Accounting Office (ÁSZ) against Jobbik: 1.Jobbik and their supporters will get so angry, that they’ll go on the streets, where as I commented before ‘anything can happen’ (note: earlier in the year OV&Co warned already for ‘a hot autumn’, it’s just a little later almost winter) 2.other parties, or even all other, will attack OV&Co / support Jobbik in this case, which could make the way free for OV&Co to claim it’s them against ‘all others together’, and therewith trying to get supporters leaving from Jobbik, starting from it’s most right side (arguments likely used: Jobbik works together with the left, that´s not acceptable) Basically OV&Co just had to ´upgrade´ their provocations to get things ‘more in line’ with their ´strategy´. What´s the best to do as opposition at the moment, I honestly don´t know )yet’, so far I can only recommend ´to follow your heart´… PS: regarding the date, I´m wondering if it could have been done on purpose one day before the EU hearing, MEPs from Jobbik are not in LIBE nor were… Read more »
Member

Ferenc, the two points you listed as possibly being positive for the mafia government, I would regard them as an advantage for the opposition and Hungary:

1. “They go on the streets, anything can happen.”
This will wake up the people.

2. ‘All together’
If the people see, that the opposition is acting as ONE unit against the mafia regime, instead of fighting against each other, then you have the ‘Either Us or Them’ thing, which will motivate more people, who are sick of the regime, to vote, if they see a real chance of getting rid of them.

The ‘Either Us Or Them’ is in any way better, than the ‘The opposition is a bunch of chickens, and nothing will change anyway’ thing.

Ferenc
Guest

Winston, you misunderstood me.
I did not at all mean the points to be positive for OV&CO, I only wanted to make people aware, if they didn’t know yet, that OV&Co have strategies aka.futher anti-democratic actions ready in store.
So basically if these two points happen, the people should NOT think they’re ready, it will be not more than the start of something, which can continue only in worse and uglier directions (because of OV&Co), until OV&Co are over and out.

So most importantly, be prepared against all kind of dirty tricks/pressures from OV&Co, and people should best ‘follow their hearts’!!

Member

Ferenc, I know, that you didn’t mean it like that.
I only took your points as a hook to elaborate my own thoughts.

Marty
Guest
This is just one of many tricks Fidesz will use to eliminate competition and remain in power. Fidesz will never ever give up power – and you know what? People quite like it that way. Foreign politicians too, Orban “creates order”. Hungarians did like the Kadar system too. Top Fideszniks liked it and now like it more and more – the only thing they didn’t like was that it was somebody else in power not they. But in retrospect top Fidszniks think that the system was perfect – of course the MSZMP and Janos Kadar were by the 1980’s already weak, enfeebled, clueless and prone to compromises – whereas Fidesz and Orban still haven’t lost any of their revolutionary fervor and ambitions and they will never give into the opposition or criticism. They will not make the same mistake as Gorbatchev or Kadar made, they will not get weak and open to compromises. Orban is like Putin or the Chinese communist party – they take no prisoners. Somebody who is not a loyal servant of the Party is an enemy in need of purging. Orban is just getting started. What we’ve seen so far is nothing compared to what’s coming… Read more »
Observer
Guest

Your semi-apology of dictatorship and corruption doesn’t take into account the economy (which most ideologically bent pricks don’t understand – “it’s the economy, stupid”).
Such regimes exhibit counter selection, corruption, voluntaristic interventions, distorted markets and their economies can only survive on exogenous (to the local economy) revenue, usually natural resources. And even then … see Venezuela. In the case of Hungary, i.e. without such revenues, but with a hefty debt, it is the familiar all the way down to old Romania or Albania, North Korea, Zimbabwe.

Everyone has the right to be dumb, but not for free.

Marty
Guest

There’s no apology whatsoever. I’m saying that autocrats learn from their predecessors’ mistake and the consensus now is that being open to compromises (like Kadar or Grósz or Németh or Gorbachev was open) is a sure way to lose your power eventually. As a result Orban doesn’t do that. Putin neither as the Chinese neither.

Member

Restrain your panting admiration for the fascist for a minute and look at facts.

“Orban is like Putin or the Chinese communist party – they take no prisioners”

No, he is different for two reasons:

1. He is psychotic and his mental illness rather than cold logic (as employed by successful dictatorships) more often governs his actions.

2. He needs the EU money to keep his pathetic little joke of a state in business. That being the case, there are definite boundaries he cannot (at this moment) cross. Putin or the Chinese doesn’t like a journalist, that journalist very soon will be dead. Fat Viktor doesn’t like a journalist, the worst that can happen is that his lapdogs at Origo accuse him or her of working for Satan…sorry, Soros.

Marty
Guest

There is no admiration, as you might’ve seen I’m an unyielding enemy of Orban’s.

Orban does not need EU money. This is a myth. And this what EU politicians tell themselves. Oh, he will not do that he needs us. He doesn’t in reality. It’s nice to have those monies, sure but he already has hard time to launder the dough and invest it in Hungary.

But every dictator can skim billions off from any state. Mugabe could do it and get reelected repeatedly and now his successor will do the same. And Zimbabwe is so poor, the gipsy villages of Szabolcs county look like Switzerland compared to rural Zimbabwe.

Orban can go (he already has done so, actually) the Ukrainian way – getting his cut from the natural gas, oil and uranium supplies which the Hungary economy needs.

That’s already a huge business for him (not to mention smaller businesses like the citizenship bonds) and he can keep his power based on those monies alone plus what he can take from the normal state budget (in the absence of EU funds). You underestimate the staying power and resilience of a dictator and you do that at your peril.

Member

“Orban does not need EU money.”

Oh yes, he does.
Ignore his personal theft of these funds, Hungary’s economy collapses if his joke state leaves the EU. That is not a “myth”, that is the truth:
https://bbj.hu/economy/hungarys-economy-heavily-depends-on-eu-funds-study-finds_130880

Proof?
The fact that the fascist stays within an organisation which he hates with avengeance despite the fact that it is now (perhaps with the US Dept of State) Orban’s only real opposition.

Marty
Guest

I’m saying a smart dictator like Maduro or Mugabe or Milosevic survives the collapse of the economy. Dictators are very resilient, they keep getting richer even when everybody gets poorer and almost always hold on to their power.

Orban would do so too – or at most his party would replace him with Lazar or some other corrupt senior fidesznik connected to the state security apparatus.

BMO
Guest

I am more and more convinced that it’s in the long-term interest of all that Fidesz bags a 2/3s win. It would be foolish to think that the de rigueur of systematic corruption, a bloated government and mismanaged economy could all be remediated in a year or two.

Any incoming government would have to trigger actions that would inevitably result in austerity, widely publicized layoffs and severe scandals that would deplete the tolerance of the public for politics and change. Not to mention that Fidesz is so deeply embedded from capital to local public functions that the country would be ungovernable. Fidesz would be back in a term.

This system needs a major meltdown and an unquestioned mandate for an incoming government to recast the pillars of democracy – no matter the pain and scandals along the way. The public (and opposition) is simply not ready for grasping the magnitude of what has to come.

Marty
Guest
This is totally misguided, I’m sorry to say. With 2/3s Orban can legally do absolutely anything. There would be no control over him whatsoever. Nobody could ever hold him or others accountable or take away his looted money (remember that Orban really wanted to be the richest guy only after 2014 when he fell out with Simicska, but soon after Orban lost his 2/3s so his wealth is still in danger). You can’t be serious that’s in anybody’s interest but Orban’s. Or you lack the imagination what Orban could do with that legal power – I’m a lawyer, I know what a tyrant could do (for starters the judiciary would be packed with fideszniks in 3 days, there are lists whom to transfer from the executive branch into the judiciary etc. etc.). As I said, you’ve seen nothing yet (e.g. RTL Klub is already widely rumored to have been promised to Orban by the Germans. Now with 2/3s he will just destroy it or take it away anyway and this is just for starters in the media). Orban must be stopped. Sure, the situation would be difficult, almost hopeless etc. but the present situation should by all means available disrupted.… Read more »
BMO
Guest
Marty, with the risk of sounding a bit too caustic, Orban has already been doing pretty much what he wants. In fact he has repeteadly demonstrated the near-complete erosion of checks and balances. Public functions and all other govt related domains have been overtaken and are hand-controlled by Orban; press and opposition are both fully overpowered; looting of public coffers (EU and domestic) is commonplace. What happens today is synoymous with the modus operandi of the Soviet-era, minus the inability to critize the leadership freely (only outside of the public sector). The picture you are effectively painting if I’m not mistaken, is that Orban is to eventually mount an attack on the basic liberties of people and suppress dissent outside of the reach of public bodies if kept unchecked. I honestly doubt this – the public has indeed priced in corruption and the violation of certain rights for not having to deal with scandals, take responsibility and the likes, but will not tolerate a full-blown dictatorship. This system is a kept afloat because of the corruption. What american bombing was to milosevic, the drying up of EU funds is to Orban. Public body leadership currently galvanized by corruption will quickly… Read more »
Marty
Guest

I disagree. Orban can still tighten the screws and loot much much more. There’s no end to the concentration of power and he can still go a long way further.

The EU monies will not dry up, but as I wrote about it he doesn’t need it. He just like Maduro (who lost the oil revenues when the price went down a few years ago) he can live without the EU funds (Milosevic didn’t have it either).

The EU monies thing is something liberals tell themselves to calm their souls that maybe Orban can still be controlled and that he is also dependent on the EU. This is a mistake I think, which creates a myth about the important EU. Orban decided to leave the EU only the voters haven’t started to support the idea yet.

BMO
Guest

I definitely agree, this is one thing few dare to talk about. Orban does not stand to benefit from the EU-membership on the long run.

wrfree
Guest

Re:’ Orban can still tighten the screws and loot much much more. There’s no end to the concentration of power and he can still go a long way further’

For sure. What Magyarorszag has now in my opinion is a criminal government (this will not sit well with the Szijjarto brigade- what in God’s name are you talking about!) considering what they are doing as far as destroying parliamentary democracy. Question is how much patience resides in the people and where will that patience take them. In dumb acquiescence or an emptying of rage just waiting to explode?

Orban et al has to think as well. He can count his chickens before they’re hatched alright but he just may have to give up his pipe dreams when patience may revert to awful despair as the people shout ‘nem!’ and take back their stolen country.

wrfree
Guest

Oh and regarding Mistah Kadar. He and his pals were smart. Observation: they managed to ween away all that stuff about being ‘free’ and all in a ‘democracy’ and substituted all that with something that simply could be touched or felt and at the same time of providing feelings of getting ‘upscale’ and moving on up to Western standards. A big hit in the economy as the Magyar consumer society went on its upward swing.

But Kadar the tried and true commie he was knew he had to toe a line. So he didn’t mind having all those US ‘krimi’ shows on Magyar tv’s which said ‘See? What a degenerate society!’ And the Russians loved that. But on the other hand the Magyars got some great tv programming compared to the boring muck that what was on their tubes.

Fast forward today and what have we got? Same old same old and arguably much worse as Magyars perhaps have been taught to learn a bad Faustian bargain between freedoms and material and social comforts.

Observer
Guest

What about another scenario: fight it out now and try to stave off some of the economic decline and pain.
There’s a lot of experience to apply in a must-do deorbanisation of the political system, from the post WW2 de-nazification to Orban/Erdogan’s slow or fast purges. Most of the Fid party soldiers installed in key offices have repeatedly committed abuse of power, dereliction of duties, have broken or bent the law in service of the regime – all very illegal. Ditto for the Fid oligarchs fattened on corruption – many deals were pretty transparent and if only one sticks in court it’s still a decade in prison + confiscation of property + ban from public office.

It is an inevitable war to be fought now or later, unless the Huns are prepared to stagger for 10-15 years to the levels of the old Romania or Bulgaria. With Paks2 debt and some financial world crisis we can experience even Albanian lifestyle – poverty, mafia, crime and all, Orban has laid the foundations.

Observer
Guest

This is a THE LAST MILESTONE ON THE ROAD TO FULL DICTATORSHIP IN HUNGARY – an attempt to directly the elimination of the biggest opposition party from the race. The thin fig leaf doesn’t mean much since nowadays almost all dictators sport such – from Zimbabwe to Belarus to Kazakhstan.

I’m amazed this was not a central example/issue at the hearing yesterday.

In view of this outrage I’m predict that the Orban mafia is not going to hand over power peacefully if they lose the election. They will manipulate the results, ballots will disappear, results in some districts will be annulled because of whatever; they will create confusion and play for time, while their overwhelming media will work the population into believing or at least accepting the imposed status quo without resistance.

This event reinforces the case for cooperation of all the opposition parties in order to bust Orban’s totally corrupt fascist regime.
LMP may come to carry a historic stain for refusing to do so. And the “freedom loving Hungarian people” too.

Observer
Guest

Sorry,

… an attempt to eliminate …
… at the E.Parliament hearing on the state of Hun democracy ..
… I predict that …

Istvan
Guest
Lajos Simicska could easily pay this fine for Jobbik since it was Simicska who instigated the reduced pricing on the billboards to begin with. In a democracy Simicska should be able to donate to the party of his choosing, and he knows full well Fidesz does similar less than transparent practices since he created and perfected those methodologies for Orban. Both Vona and Orban are szar, the Jobbik fund raising campaign to pay the fine is simply political theater. Gábor Vona probably never told a bigger lie than when he told Politico back in July “Jobbik does not receive any support from Lajos Simicska.” According to Transparency International Hungary, in 2013, 11 percent of the value of public contracts went to companies connected to four Fidesz-affiliated individuals, with Simicska the most favored among them. That year alone, a construction company owned by Simicska won over 17 percent of tenders issued by the National Development Authority. For the liberal left to support Jobbik in this theater of the absurd is to simply support one corrupt faction of the parasitic Hungarian oligarchy over the other in the name of a failed multiparty electoral system. Really what the left liberals are doing is… Read more »
Observer
Guest

The democratic parties should co-operate with the Jobbik in order to bust the orban regime – this is priority No.1. Everything else only follows.

Ceterum censeo, Orban delenta est.

bimbi
Guest

@observer, 6:10 a.m.
“The democratic parties should co-operate with the Jobbik in order to bust the orban regime”

I cannot see this happening and I should be disappointed if the Demokratikus Koalitio were so to compromise their principles as to cooperate with Jobbik in attempting to form a government. On what basis could such a government even start to function? If any grouping is to replace the Orbán war machine, it needs to be strong, very strong.

Can anyone countenance a withdrawal of all parties from the April 2018 election because of complete bias of the electoral system, including the personal vengeance attack on Jobbik?
And what then?

Jean P
Guest

“Can anyone countenance a withdrawal of all parties from the April 2018 election …”

Boycotting the election is the only weapon left for the opposition and now is their last chance to use it. The opposition has nothing to gain by taking part in an election they cannot win because the rules are thoroughly rigged against them. Taking part, united or divided, in Orban’s election charade will be the end of the opposition parties.

Observer
Guest

A boycott attempt will fail:
LMP and others, incl the fictional parties will participate.
The regime will receive some more criticism from the OECD, but willpoint to the dozens of parties on the ballot and the main result will be zero opposition insight in and voice agaibst he shenanigans to follow. And zero funding.

Jean P
Guest

“A boycott attempt will fail…”

A boycott attempt will fail with honor. Participation in Orban’s election travesty will be a failure with dishonor. The opposition parties are loaded with people who are in it for the money. They will not write off their hope of becoming well paid but completely irrelevant members of the Parliament.

Ferenc
Guest

“The democratic parties should co-operate with the Jobbik in order to bust OV’s regime.”
I don’t think so, like make it more general and to state the following:

All parties should support an other party its fight against this (and future…) anti-democratic actions by OV&Co. BUT all parties should ‘follow their heart’ in which level of co-operation with that other party, they feel to be OK.

One other thing I like to state:
Keep a straight line and don’t try to ‘out smart’ OV&Co, as that would backfire. Leave the anti-democratic ‘out-smarting’ to OV&Co against everybody else, and that WILL BACKFIRE democratically!!

Member

Observer: “The democratic parties should co-operate with the Jobbik…”

YES, right now!

It can only can get worse.
The parties, who speculate in getting a better chance in 2022 (Momentum?), might get no chance at all then.

Any tactical games and self demolition is strictly forbidden!

Even my wife supports cooperation with Jobbik now.

Observer
Guest

Guys,
I guess we agree to disagree on the cooperation issue. Remember:
In politics buying time is buying life.
One can die virtuous or compromise and survive to fight another day.
History never ends (sorry Fukuyama).
And other wisdoms… Read history.

Zoli
Guest

If Eva is right, Fidesz leadership is extremely stupid to be doing such a thing. Jobbik is no threat in this election, none of the opposition parties are! But, I don’t think that it is the case that Fidesz is trying to eliminate the opposition. Having an opposition is the prerequisite to democratic credibility, even if that opposition is largely unpopular at the moment. It is more than likely that Jobbik was asked to provide details for this year, because they already knew there will be irregularities, which they wanted to address ASAP.

Aside from that, I find it almost comical how the left all the sudden sees Jobbik as the solution to Orban. The left has no credibility to beat him, so why not try to get Jobbik into power, let them fail miserably, leaving the left as an alternative? It is in fact a terrible scorched earth plan, against the interests of Hungary & Hungarians! And it will not work, because Jobbik’s suport base cannot be grown beyond current levels.

Ferenc
Guest

“that opposition is largely unpopular at the moment”
NOT correct: the current government has less support, in both 2014 elections and this very moment, than the all opposition together!

Furthermore you seem to have no objections to the whole procedure by ASZ, which is a first in 28 years after the ‘system change’, and is very ‘applying double standards’ compared to happenings around previous elections (2010 & 2014 by you know who…)
You seem to accept that this ASZ action is done to eliminate one specific opposition party, not the whole opposition, because then democracy would even end in your view.

Nevertheless you consider OV&Co to be “extremely stupid”, therefore I highly recommend to you, NOT to vote for a party with such leadership, and if you don’t find any other party worth of your voting support, just don’t vote next April.

Zoli
Guest

Actually, if you do a google search “Hungary polls”, and go to the Wikipedia page, you will find a list of recent polls, which average over 50% for Fidesz, which is most likely what they will get in the absence of a huge event changing things. And no I do not consider them to be stupid. I don’t believe that they would be that stupid.

Ferenc
Guest

Your figures are coming from ‘party polls’, without including undecided voters.
I wrote about the government, and special researches recently done by pollsters show that most people want another government, so NOT with OV&Co!

Zoli
Guest

Most of the undecided in Hungary as in most other countries are politically inactive, in other words there is very little that would ever bring them to the polls, which is why in most national elections in the Western world there is usually a voting participation rate in the 50-70%. In my view, those who are not politically active are doing the right thing by staying home, because most of them are hardly informed enough to make any decisions. It is very disingenuous to say the least to try to count those people as opposed to current government. In fact, one could argue that they are the content with the situation, given that they do not even bother to show up to vote.

Ferenc
Guest

“they are the content with the situation, given that they do not even bother to show up to vote”
if you are content, you might as well think 2018.April about staying at home…

Marty
Guest
You don’t understand how lawyers think. If there’s a risk however small, it has to be treated. Lose ends must always be tied. Jobbik – now that it has Simicska’s backing – is the biggest threat to Fidesz. Sure, it isn’t all that big, it’s been stagnating etc. but it’s still the only real opposition (besides DK but Gyurcsany is hated by millions and Jobbik is the least hated party). The rest of the bunch from MSZP to LMP are actually controlled, financed by Fidesz. Jobbik probably has many crypto-Fideszniks inside it too but with Simicska behind Jobbik Fidesz finds Jobbik is difficult to control. So Jobbik is a risk. Not that big of a risk, but it’s a risk nonetheless and as such it must be dealt with. The government fined Jobbik for 300 million which is big but not that big. Jobbik can pay, it will hurt it but it won’t incapacitate Jobbik totally. That’s the point. No big scandal just a big blow into the stomach. It makes life very difficult for Jobbik because it’s a huge distraction and it’s a serious chunk of the campaign budget – even though Fidesz will spend some 3-4 billion at… Read more »
Observer
Guest

Jobbik CANNOT pay this amount and conduct a campaign too. The Orbán gang figured this out and this why they ordered this hit. And there’s no apoealy against an ASZ ruling however frivolous or unsubstantiated it is. Thus is the “law” of the fascist state.

Zoli
Guest

Yes but almost all of Jobbik’s suport would go to the other parties, such as the Socialists, so why strengthen them? Your logic fails here.

Marty
Guest
Zoli, you are wrong. 1. Many Jobbik supporters will never vote for a leftist party. In the absence of Jobbik such people will vote for Fidesz. 2. The distraction of this fine, the new narrative (that Jobbik may or may not survive etc.) will persuade many undecideds that Jobbik is really not in a position to govern now, it’s still weak, almost bankrupt etc. so it’s better to support Fidesz which represents stability and competence (“sure health care is really bad but at least Fidesz will defend us from Muslim rapists who will cut off our heads and godless liberals who would destroy our families and convert kids to gayness”). 3. Long term MSZP has no future. As we know, Orban already told in 2009 the Americans (from Wikileaks) that MSZP was unlikely to get in the Parliament in 2018. Honestly, if it will get in 2018 it will be because of Orban (Fidesz is financing MSZP). MSZP has been in decline for long, it has no ideology, membership, national network, nothing – it’s a zombie party kept alive by Fidesz. Orban doesn’t care if people vote for MSZP – he controls MSZP. 4. I would also add that Gyurcsany… Read more »
Zoli
Guest

If you were to ask me, I’d say that it is Gyurcsany who is being paid by Fidesz to stay on and keep reminding people of the 2002-2010 fiasco of the left. Now that guy is the gift that just keeps on giving as far as Orban is concerned!

Guest

We never hear about the fiasco of the first Orbán government 1998 – 2002 which lead to Gyurcsány’s win …
Strange – or not?
All the seeds for Fidesz corruption were already sown then!

Observer
Guest

Zoli
I like the “if you ask me” proviso under which you can write that Gyurcsàny is paid by Fid or any other nonsense, this is a free blog. But if you write that some absurd IS, like OV never lied, or repeat the agit prop panels, I’ll be out to get you.

Observer
Guest

If I could deprive u of any money, voice and lock u up into the bargaining, you won’t be popular either, you won’t exist. This is what every dictator is doing (to start with) and Orbán too.